The Moth - The Moth Radio Hour: Confidence - Too Much, Too Little?

Episode Date: August 16, 2022

In this hour, stories about puffing yourself up. This episode is hosted by Catherine Burns. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Hosted by: Catherine Burns Storytellers: Aleeza Kazmi Dante Jackson David Crabb Sam Shepard Sarah Lee Nakintu

Attention Houston! You have listened to our podcast and our radio hour, but did you know the Moth has live storytelling events at Wearhouse Live? The Moth has opened Mike's storytelling competitions called Story Slams that are open to anyone with a five-minute story to share on the night's theme. Upcoming themes include love hurts, stakes, clean, and pride. GoodLamoth.org forward slash Houston to experience a live show near you. That's theMoth.org forward slash Houston. This is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX, and I'm Catherine Burns. Today, we're going to hear stories about being self-assured or not, being over or under

confident. For some people, it's just about knowing who you are and who you aren't. That was a case with our first storyteller, Aliza Kasmig. We first met Aliza when she participated in our high school storieslam program, which leads after school workshops for students around New York City. We liked her stories so much, we asked her to develop it for our New York main stage. She was the youngest person in the show by at least 10 years. All the older storytellers were beside themselves with nerves, but everyone noticed that 19-year-old Aliza seemed completely relaxed. She was by far the most confident of them all.

Here's Aliza Kazmi, live at the moth. So I was six years old in the first grade, and I was sitting at a table with my three best friends. And we were all really similar. All of our mom's bottles closed from the children's place, and we all looked to play house during recess, and all of our names started with the letter A. There was Asaya, Amanda, Alicia, and Alisa.

And we were working on the Icebreaker project of the first grade, which our teacher was hearing and had assigned to us, and it was gonna be self-portraits, so that we could hang them up on the wall and continue each other's faces and names. And it was really excited for this project, and I knew it was really special because there were three drafts. And we were working on the final draft, which was going to be colored in.

And I was super stoked for this because over the summer, my mom had bought me this coloring book. The Tommy, all these really great techniques for how to draw properly. And I finally mastered coloring inside of the lines. And I was so excited to show my friends my new skills. I was basically young Picasso. And I also knew this was a special project because we were using oil pastels.

And I loved oil pastels because they're really soft. So I would pinch off a little bit and melt it between my fingers. And they were expensive for my public school in New York City. And so each table got one box. And each box had one of each color. So you had to be patient and wait for your color to not be used. And at this point, I had colored in my shirt blue

and the background green and there was a little tree. And I had drawn in all the features of my face, which the book had taught me to do first. And I drawn my lips and my nose. And I was ready to color in my face. And all of my friends had which the book had taught me to do first, and I drawn my lips and my nose, and I was ready to color in my face. And all of my friends had used the peach oil pastel to color in their face, and since we were basically all the same girl I figured I would use peach too. And so finally, when it was available, I picked it up, and I started drawing so slowly

going around my lips and my eyes, and it was calling in all one direction. And I was watching as the oil pastel melt into the paper and my face come alive and I colored inside of the lines. And when I looked down, it was like I was looking into a mirror. This girl I had just drawn was exactly how I see myself. And I feel my teacher was hearing to know over my shoulder and was hearing to love it when people drew well.

And so I was getting ready for her to praise me to say, Aliza, that is the most beautiful self-portrait I have ever seen. I'm gonna hang it above my desk so everyone who comes and can see it. And instead, Miss Jill Harrington says, Aliza, that's not your color. And I'm confused by this because I don't understand

how colors can belong to people, but before I can find a way to ask her, she's gone to the oil pastel box and I started looking through it, and she doesn't find the color that she's looking for, and so she goes to the crayon bin. Now, every school had this infamous crayon bin that had bits and pieces of wrapped up and gross crayons I've been rolling around and I've that bin forever and I never went to the Crayon bin, but nonetheless Miss Harrington is rummaging through it. And she reaches in and she pulls out this little nub of a brown crayon. That's unwrapped and gross and she hands it to me. And I'm still really confused

by all of this, but I've noticed my friends are staring at me, and my heart is beating really fast, and I want this to be over. And so I just grab the crayon, and I start coloring in my face, and I'm going in all different directions, except for the fact that wax crayon and oil pastel don't mix together.

They don't belong on the same paper, so it doesn't matter how hard I'm pushing, because I can't get the crayon to stick, and I'm coloring outside of the lines. And when I look down at this paper, I'm this grotesque monster that can't decide if she wants to be peach or brown. And I want to beg Ms. Harrington, please don't hang this up.

I'll do it all over again. I'll use the colors that you want me to. But before I can find the right word, she's taken myself portrait and put it into a pile with all of my even-tone peach friends. And it gets hung up. And that night I go home and I ask my mom why I wasn't allowed to be peach. And she explains it as best as you can to a six-year-old who's just gone through an identity crisis.

And she says, you know, I'm not peaching your dad's in peach since you're our daughter. You're not peaching either. But this confused me even more because my parents are just like my peach friends' parents. They sound the same, they make the same small talk, but they're not the same. And everyone seems to understand this concept of color and I'm not getting it, and I don't want my mom to think that I'm stupid, and so I don't ask her any further,

and I try to not think about it. But I didn't know where I fit, and I was stuck in this color limbo, but I finally graduated elementary school and moved on to sixth grade and thought I had left this whole concept of colors behind me. And so on the first day of sixth grade, I was really excited. It was a brand new start and we're all trying to get to know each other by asking questions like where to go, tell elementary school and what's your favorite book, and this one could come

up to me and he says, what race are you? And I had never been blatantly asked this question before, so I didn't have a prepared answer. And so I thought back to Ms. Harrington and that brown crayon, so I told him I'm brown. And he gets this confused look on his face and he says, what do you mean you're brown? Brown isn't a race. And I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that I had finally said I'm brown

and it still wasn't enough. And then this little six-year-old girl deep inside of me gets really angry and then I get really angry. And then I'm screaming at him and I said, do you know what? If I say I'm brown, then that's it. I'm brown. And he never spoke to me again.

Which was fine because I had finally found the words to stand up for myself. And I'd finally come to terms with who I was. And now I want to say that was the end of it that because I was OK with who I was that I never had to stand up or defend my race again, but that just wasn't true. I was growing up in post 9-11, New York City, where being brown put me in this category of others, and I had been questioned about who I was many times after that, and I had

to reaffirm over and over that I'm brown, I'm brown, I'm brown because I've worked so hard to love the skin that I'm in and nothing anyone can say will take that away from me. And today, if you ask me to draw a self-portrait of myself, I'm a drawn confident young woman who's proud of her Afghan and Pakistani heritage, who is a proud American, and I would find the most beautiful, soft, oil pastel to color in my face. No one would have to tell me to pick it up and it would be my first choice. Thank you.

Aliza Kazzmi's work has been featured in Teen Vogue and the Moths New York Times Beselling Story Collection, Occasional Magic. Alisa graduated from Stony Brook University in 2019 with a degree in journalism. Our next storyteller, Dante Jackson, is also someone we met in our high school program. Catherine McCarthy is the former manager of that program, and I asked her about Dante. She said, it was our very first story slam there, a packed black box theater in the basement of the school.

Dante had never spoken in public before, it was really nervous, but you can hear how he gained confidence as he told the story and fed off the energy of the audience. Here's Dante, live at the School for Classics in the East New York neighborhood in Brooklyn. Okay, well, back in middle school, I wasn't really the type of kid to let myself have any fun.

I was afraid that if I let myself have fun, I'd end up being judged, and I don't like being judged. So, eighth grade comes around. Problems coming up, everybody's talking about it. Hey, are you going to problem? I'm going to problem. You know what you're wearing? You know what you're going with? I know what I'm going with. But me, I wasn't planning on there.

I didn't really want to go. I thought I'd just skip it. I thought I'd just end up being a kid in a corner, chickening in hand. I'm just standing there. So after being constantly bugged by friends and family, I decided, you know what, what the heck, might as well go. Let's just hear what it's going to be about. So, um, graduation and prom was on the same day.

Graduation was early on in the day. We sang Celine Dion. I hated it. So, um, I go home, I get dressed. I throw my suit, have my little for Doron, you know, stuntin'. So I'm going to my friend Shannon's house, it's a block away from my house, not far. She lives next to this daycare I used to go to, there's a family of treaty dide-ins, I've known them since birth, they're like my second family. We're all outside killing. My mom's taking a bajillion pictures,

you know how to get around this kind of time. And yeah. So, nor typically, well, I should say first that, Shannon comes outside and typically she's a tomboy. She's usually just saying shirt, jeans, sneakers. That's it. But she comes out, she got a head down. She got her little right dress on. She got the real huge hoop earrings, you know. So now I'm staying on my show. You know, so now I'm staying, I'm like, huh? Well now.

So we, we getting the truck, it's about a 15, 20 minute drive. It's not very long. I get there on my friend's stand outside, hey, don't say, hey, you decide to show up, I'm like hey. So I go inside, the space is a little bit smaller than I thought it would be granted, it's not a lot of us, but it was pretty fancy looking, and I thought it was a good place to be. Music starts playing, everybody's on the dance floor.

I'm in the corner, there, chicking in the hand. I had a few people come up to me and try to pull me on the dance floor, but I wasn't moving. I wasn't moving for anything but chicking. So, the DJ decided to put on this song, and now he's saying, you know, everybody that's not dancing, you got to grab him, grab him, pull him on that dance floor. I don't even bother you see anybody standing on the wall, you got to grab him, bring him on the floor. So immediately 20 heads come at me and try to drag me on the dance floor. And at this point, I'm just done fighting it. I'm like, you know what, what the heck, I'm just going to go on that dance floor and at this point I'm just done fighting it. I'm like, you know what? What the heck, I'm just gonna go on that dance floor.

I'm gonna have a good time. I'm standing awkwardly in the middle of a dance floor, just looking around. So I try not to make myself look suspicious, so I start doing a little, I start doing a little two steps. This is, this is where it was at. I start doing a little two steps. This is where it was at.

So, gradually over time, I start getting more into it. The little two step turns into a little two. It's shuffle. That shuffle turns into a a crisscross. And that crisscross turns it to a God knows what. I don't even know what I was doing anymore. I just know that I'm on fire. And I'm busing moves. I never thought was possible for me. And I wasn't aware of this until I took the time to look around and I'm stuck in that little circle they make.

Everybody's like, hey, go doth it. Go doth it. So, and it turns out that was one of the best nights of my life. It is like my life. It is like my life up until that point. I was locked in a dark room, but then I decided to unlock the door and I took a step out. And I learned how to dance.

Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Dante Jackson is now a 25-year-old aspiring writer and plans to go to school to work in the automotive industry. To see a video of Dante busting a move while telling the story, go to themoth.org. Both Dante and our first storyteller, Aliza, have stayed involved with the moth long after they graduated high school. They've each told their stories to hundreds of middle- and high schoolers around New York City, hopefully inspiring

confidence in a whole new generation of storytellers. Coming up, a man's underconfidence gets him in trouble during a visit to the Russian spa, and later, a young Sam Shepherd's overconfidence creates havoc on a film set when the M Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX. This is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Katherine Burns. In this show, we're hearing about confidence, and our next story is about what can happen when you're under-confident. Our storytellers, David Krabb, and he told the story while hosting the Moth's debut show

at the Sydney Opera House. We were there launching the Moth inrab, and he told the story while hosting the Moths' debut show at the Sydney Opera House. We were there launching the Moths in Australia, and one of our other storytellers dropped out last minute. We were literally on the other side of the world where we knew almost no one, so we panicked. We said, David, you're already hosting. Is there any chance you have a story you could tell? And he did. Here's David at the Festival of Dangerous Ideas in Sydney. So I'm going to tell you a little story. That means if we get warmed up for two more storytellers. And when I think of the razor's edge,

another thing that makes me think of is just in general just tension. How many of you guys like massages? I got ruined on massages. It was my partner and I was like to your anniversary and he said why don't we go get massages and we'll just spend the day in the spa. So we went to the Russian Bass in the East Village of New York where everyone knows it's a spa on a budget, it's fine. And we walked in, and the thing that greets you when you walk into the Russian bass is a very angry old Russian woman. She looks like she's made of pudding

and moles. She greets you behind a sort of steam, steam filled deli counter, just violently shoving carrots into a juicer, just, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr with these tired gray eyes, eyes that have seen things. He came up to us in this big oversized white robe and he had a clipboard and he's like, you too want special service. And we were like, yes, we do. It was terrifying. We just agreed. And he started rambling off all these special services, but in Russian, confusing. And finally, we were like, massage. We just want massage.

And he was like, massage, I will come get you. And he said it like a threat with a pen, you know? You're gonna get rubbed, you know? So we go about enjoying the spa. And we go to this one steam room. And in New York, I feel like everyone has made a contract with each other that act like things in New York are normal when they are not.

I remember my partner and I once ate like a different anniversary meal as clearly somewhere near us a rat was screaming in a glue trap and we were just like, it's just a rusty hinge on something. I love you. And when we're in this like spa room, you go in and you expect some sort of duct system with steam coming through, but when you go in it's just this spa room, you go in and you expect some sort of duct system with steam coming through. But when you go in, it's just this concrete room. It looks like a place you would wake up in one of those saw movies.

And there is a crack in the concrete. It looks like Armageddon in a parking garage wall. And loose steam is just hissing out of it. You don't know where it's from. Is it sewage steam? Who can say? But ah, ah, fabulous. So which team who can say, but ah, ah, fabulous. We're in this room with these two other girls. When the big Russian man comes in and he has a big plastic bucket, you know one of those

buckets that's so big, it has like a drawing of a baby in it, they're like beware of your child's around this bucket, it's a huge ass bucket. And it's full of what looks like shards of glass. And he has a giant sort of dead feather from some kind of animal. And he comes in and he's like Jennifer and very sheepishly a woman curled up in the corner with her friend. He's like me. Jennifer is directed to stand against the wall like Guantanamo Bay. Like she literally, like... LAUGHTER And this giant Russian man proceeds to dip this weird dead feather in what is like rock salt and glass her! Lash her! Lash her because it's Russian and it feels good.

Um... And I always remember at one point it's happening and she turns and she looks at her friend and she's like, STAYCY! LAUGHTER when it's happening and she turns and she looks at her friend and she's like, STAY CEE! So, a little bit later, the giant man comes to us and he's like, Jack and David, and we're like, okay, so we follow him, and we follow him up these stairs, and we get to this long hallway, and it's a hallway that doesn't have real walls To make the rooms it has those little sort of shades that you know women change behind in old movies It folds out so you can hear the stereos playing in all the massage rooms at the same time And it's this eerie cacophonous like there's a throat singing and whale songs and a harp is like

It's the most awful sound ever And as we're walking down the hallway, it almost seems to get longer. Like I feel like have you guys seen poltergeist? Like when the mom runs down the hallway, Caroline and it just gets so long. I felt like that because I was so nervous about what was coming.

We finally get to the end of the hallway. And the big Russian man, he looks at my partner and he's like, Jack, you come with me. David, you'll go with Ivan. And I turn around and there is Ivan. Ivan is a little bit taller than me. He is covered in muscles that I didn't know men could have.

He is in a way too short white robe undone way too low with like a medallion resting in like the perfect amount of chest hair, giant pecs. And he's like, they did my name is Ivan, come with me. And I'm like, bye Jack, happy anniversary, bye bye. Bye. Jack loves when I tell this story. So I go in this room with Ivan, and it's very dim. There's candles lit, and there's the big, sort of padded massage table with the doughnut. And he tells me to get on my stomach,

and I put my face through the doughnut. And then he says, I just have one question for you, David. Is photos your massage do you want soft? Or do you want hard? And I'm like soft just give me the soft one please I don't need just soft sweetish sweetish And then the lights get even dimmer on the floor that I'm looking I'm looking at the floor through the hole And then I hear a click and in the corner of the room begins, I gave you all the love I tried I gave you, this is no ordinary line.

And Ivan begins to touch me. And he's like, and he's pushing and it's nice, but it does feel a little hard, you know? It feels more like a sport massage and less like a Swedish massage, but I'm like dealing with it and after about five minutes just when I get used to it, the song fades down and then the next shade song. I guess it was the greatest hits. Smooth a burrera. Coast to coastal, late to Chicago. By the way, shade doesn't really understand

geography. I mean, there's a lot more past Chicago. That's all I'm saying. Pasta, coast, down there, like visit America. We'll help you, shudder. I only hear about 30 seconds of this song because then all of a sudden there's no hands on me. And then I hear it click, click. This is no, I'm like, okay, he likes that song. He wants to hear that one again.

No problem. He doesn't like smooth operator for some reason, but he loves an ordinary love. Rubbing, pressing, little hard, but it feels good. Song fades down. Smooth up, click, click. I gave you all the love. Hands back on me.

All right. Surely we can hear the song more than a third time. The song fades. Smooth up, hands off, click, click. I'll give you all the love I try to get. And it goes on like this to the point that like I know exactly five more minutes of my missile. Like I can't even get lost in the time you know what I mean because I'm like no ordinary

love is telling me I'm 25 minutes into my hour-long massage. And if I do the math correctly, I'm hearing this song seven more times. Over and over again. This is no smooth output. Click this is no coast to coast. Click this is just endless over and over again. And then finally, when I'm on like the 10th or 11th play, the massage is sort of building an intensity Just click, this is just endless over and over again.

And then finally when I'm on like the 10th or 11th play, the massage is sort of building and intensity. And all of a sudden I feel this force on my body that I've never felt and I hear my spinal, click, click, click. And I'm like, I didn't know my body could do those things. And I take my face out a little donut and I look up and Ivan in this soft massage is walking on my body with his hands on the ceiling. And our eyes meet and he's like don't look at me

And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, Ivan And I'm like my god, if this is the Swedish what is the sport? You just get punched in the face repeatedly them beaten with a hot mallet like what happens in that one? And is it also to Shade? not mallet, like what happens in that one? And is it also to Shade? I'm... I'm... Finally, the massage ends and the lights come up and I get up and I feel just like a busted

noodle, I feel insane. And when I look around the room, it's like 200 framed photos and it's mostly Ivan with the actress Tyne Daily. Do you know who that is? Cagney and Lacey. And it's her through every era of her career, like 25 years of Tyne Daily. And the weird thing is in a very sort of, um, a Dorian Grayway, Ivan looks the same age in all of them.

Very bizarre. And he just very proudly, as I'm like trying to make my body work again, gestures, he says, time daily, non-bedo one client. And I'm like, bye, bye, going. I run from the room, I come up, I see my partner Jack above me, like hobbling.

And he looks at me with an urgency to say, let's get out of here. Things are gonna get worse if we don't leave. And we just rush from there, and we rush by the woman, mmm, thank you for coming. Like, no, thank you. Um, that was many years ago.

Our 12-year anniversary is coming up in February. Uh, we are getting married in November. Um, thank you. And we're going to do something very special for ourselves. And it will not include the Russian baths. But it might include Shade. That was David Krab.

David is the author of the memoir, Bad Kid. He's also a teacher who has served as an instructor in our high school program. He actually helped coach Aliza Story about the crayons we heard earlier in this hour. David's second memoir comes out later this year. Not long after he told this story, he and Jack were married. Although they've never returned to the Russian Bads, Shade still holds a very special place in their hearts. Personally, I can't hear a smooth operator without picturing David's face in that massage table donut.

Our next storyteller is the late actor and Pulitzer Prize winning playwright Sam Shepard. He told the story tonight we produced with a World Science Festival way back in 2008. This hour is all about confidence, and this is a story about what can happen when you're a bit overconfident. It feels fitting that the theme of the night was, toil and trouble, stories of experiments gone wrong.

Here's Sam Shepherd, fly with him off. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a mathematician or physics. I'm very flattered to be here with these distinguished people. I wish I had some of the credentials they have. I thought maybe some of it might rub off on me. Also I want to make it clear that writing and oral storytelling are not synonymous. In fact, they have little to do with each other. Back in the early 80s, I shot a film, which some of you may have seen, called The Right Stuff,

in the Mahari Desert out in California. And when I got the script, in fact, one of the main reasons I did it was that there was this great chasing at the beginning on horseback, Gallaby. And that the character I was playing was chasing his wife horseback across the desert, you know, figurating through the cactus and stuff. And I thought, wow, it's great. I'll do that. And at the time, I was still trying to make an honest living.

I had a couple of rope horses, and I was team-ropeing and doing jackpots and stuff like that. And I thought, well, I'll use one of my horses, which, you know, I got along with very well. I had a Ron Gelding called Roni. And I thought, this is a nice horse, you know, I can get along with him. So I went with the director at a long story short and said, could I use my own horse in this sequence? And he said, sure, bring him.

Not being a horseman himself. So first day of shooting, I show up on the set out in the Mojave with my horse trailer and my horse and my truck. And I'm not met by the director. I'm met by the head wrangler and the stuntman, two legendary guys. The stunt guy is called Chuchu Chambers. So I step out of the truck and cork you steps out. Immediately I understand there's a little attitude thinking you know he says we understand do you want to use your own horse

is it okay you know I mean I like the horse and I get along with it the problem with it is that he's a red-grown horse I said what's it mean well we don't have anything to double yet. In other words, they don't have a horse that looks like this horse, so that when the stunt comes, they can put the stunt man on the horse that looks like my horse, and they'll be all right. And I said, well, shoot, I still like to use this horse

because I really, you know, I insisted like an idiot. And so, the teacher says, well, he's okay if I get up on your horse and see what he's like, I'm just saying, sure. So he gets up and goes up and he does figure eights and circles back some up a little bit and stops, even the horse is fine, he's great, you know, he gets off and he says, it's okay. But I just want to tell you, you know, we have a serious stunt to do in this and the insurance company is not going to let you do it

because first of all, you can't do it. Which is true. And anyway, he said, okay, well, we'll see if we can get along with your horse and we'll do it. Okay. So next day I show up, we do the galloping sequence, which is beautiful, and everything works great. Everybody loves the dailies, the footage, you know, it looks good, and chasing my wife through

the desert, and it's all picture-esque. And comes time for the stunt. So this is a pretty delicious stunt that involves my character. I mean, in a film, you don't notice that it's not me because they hide behind hats and everything. Chichu is chasing my wife and he he head started to soar a cactus, which I don't know if you guys are familiar with it being in... They're gigantic cactus.

They're the biggest cactus on earth. You probably see them on cover of ears on a highway as you're seeing. They look like big green men, you he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a

little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black man, and he's going to take a little bit of the black and then dragged about 25 yards and the stir breaks away and he's fine, he's safe and everything but stunt looks horrendous and the way they do it is they cut the arm of the cactus off and they shave up all the spines and everything so that the stuntman doesn't get them in his face. And they put a balsa wood dowel in the arm that saw it about a quarter of the way through and they stick it back.

This is a scientific part here. Yeah, I try to work all that stuff in. Then they stick the arm back onto the body of the cactus, the main body of the cactus, and to the untrained eye you can't tell that it's not a real cactus. So, when he hits the arm of this cactus, it snaps off because the dowels in there and it breaks free. And it looks as though he's actually hit the cactus. We're in fact, it's nothing. And then he does his stunt, and it's all over.

Well anyway, Chitchu gets up on Roni, and he loaps out there, do the stunt, and I'm really kind of anxious about it. And he breaks him out into a wide open gallop he's headed straight toward the Suwara cactus and as he's approaching the last few yards to accomplish this stunt the horse looks down and he sees a big black electric cable about the diameters about like that, which runs from the generators back to the lights.

And he knows that that's not supposed to be in the desert. And he thinks maybe it's a snake. I don't know what he thinks. But O'Roney leaves the ground in mid, like all four legs come up away from this cable and consequently smashes directly into the trunk of the cactus, missing the arm completely. Chit-choo flips out of the saddle, but rather than breaking loose from the stirrup, he's dragged maybe 150 yards through really rough terrain.

I'm of course completely aghast at this. I'm watching it live and everything. He goes to the hospital. He lost half an ear. He had to true. To this day only has half an ear. But these guys are what they call blood and gut stuntmen and this is the reason they're called it. He broke three ribs, broken collarbone, dislocated his hip, and had serious lacerations. I'm completely, I can't believe it. I go visit him in the hospital. And this is part of a stunt man's bread and butter.

You know, I mean, they spent a lot of time in the hospital. And anyway, I go, I go in and he's all bandaged up and he's laying there and he's, you know, limbs are this way and that and everything. And I apologize deeply for the horse's behavior. And he said, you know, being a good guy that he is, he says, I have these things happen, you know, Sam. But you know, I'll tell you what, that might be a nice team-rope-in-horse. But he can't dodge a cactus for shit. So that was virtually the last time I tried to use my own livestock.

And it was a lesson I learned, you know, but that's pretty much the only accident that I have in the scientific area. I was just like this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Sam Shepard was an actor who starred in the film's Days of Heaven and the Right Stuff and the TV series Bloodline. He was one of the most influential writers of his generation. He wrote more than 50 plays, including True West, Fool for Love, and the Pulitzer Prize winning Barry Child. He died in 2017 as the age of 71. Coming up, a young woman in Kenya thinks she's

heading for boarding school until she realizes her father has something else in mind. That's next on the Mothra Radio Hour. The Mothra Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by the Public Radio Exchange, PRX.org. This is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Catherine Burns. Our final story is from Sarah Leighne Kintoo.

We met Sarah Leigh in one of the Moth's global community workshops on women and girls that we held in Kenya. After the workshop, Sarah Lee developed her story for a night we produced for the 71st UN General Assembly. Here's Sarah Lee live at Leapin Center. Kamiya, kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak But I never wanted to be like her. I didn't want to be a gardener. I looked up someone different. My auntie, who is the sister to my father, was a business woman.

She used to go to attend to our businesses every day, and she had a daily income. She always had cash on her. I admired her. y su su hiratakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak Nadehna ni'a'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u' Hela, Hela, Hela, Hela, Mama, Hela, Hela,

Hela, Hela, Hela, Hela, Saya tak akan pergi. Saya akan berkata, Kau akan berkata, tapi dalam satu-satunya. Kau berkata, Kau tak akan pergi ke sekolah. Kau akan pergi ke mana-mana. Kau akan beritahu keluarga awak dan kau akan berkata. Kami, kauwakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakari kawakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin kakutin mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea mea Neswoman, twakitak mimo asikomoditi danadota.

Mokoanak kakitak kakitak kakitak kakitak kakitak kakitak kakitak

kakitak kakitakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak My daughter is not going for marriage until she finished her school. When I looked, it was my mother. My father backed at her and said, woman, who are you to talk back at me? Don't you know your position in this family? I said she has to go, but my mother answered in a very strong voice Kami, kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna.

Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Hanna, hanna. Kami kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak Mami'a'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i Hela kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul iakat eskul i Nish told me Sarah, I have gathered money. I want to take you back to school.

And to aboding school, I got so excited. She did it. I doubted her. But she had made it. She brought my dreams back alive. I got so proud of my mother. At first I thought I would liberate her,

but guess what? She had liberated me. She gave up what other women in our culture wanted. She gave up her marriage in fight for my education. My mother, my hero. Thank you. That was Sarah Lena Kintu. Sarah is a gender advocate who works on rights and education for women and girls. We spent this hour hearing stories about confidence and I love how by finding her confidence, Sarah's mother changed the trajectory of her life.

And about her mother, Sarah says, she's now a college teacher, as well as a laboratory technician. In fact, in our district, she's the only female laboratory technician. I am so proud of her. That's it for this episode. We hope you'll join us next time for the Moth Radio Hour. Your host this hour was the Moth's artistic director, Catherine Burns, who also directed the stories along with Sarah

Austin-Jones, Michaela Bligh, and Catherine McCarthy. Additional coaching in the Moth Community and Education programs by Dawn Frazier, David Crab, and Melissa Brown. The rest of the Moths' directorial staff includes Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson, and Mac Bulls, production support from Timothy Luley, special thanks to the World Science Festival. David Crabb's story was produced in partnership with the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. The Moth would like to thank the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation for their support of the Moth Community Program. Moth stories are true, is remembered and affirmed by the

storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift, Other Music in this hour from Regina Carter, Boombox, Shade, and Selwagans Infinette. The Moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison, with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media and Woods Hole Massachusins. This hour was produced with funds from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth radio hour is presented by PRX. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, TheMawth.org.