The Moth - The Moth Radio Hour: Live from New York City

Episode Date: August 30, 2022

In this hour, we present audio from a great live show. This episode is hosted by Jay Allison, and the live event was hosted by CJ Hunt. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Hosted by: Jay Allison Storytellers: Micaela Blei Nathan Englander Barbara Bowie

Attention Houston! You have listened to our podcast and our radio hour, but did you know the Moth has live storytelling events at Wearhouse Live? The Moth has opened Mike's storytelling competitions called Story Slams that are open to anyone with a five-minute story to share on the night's theme. Upcoming themes include love hurts, stakes, clean, and pride. GoodLamoth.org forward slash Houston to experience a live show near you. That's the moth.org forward slash Houston. From PRX, this is the Mawth Radio Hour. I'm Jay Ellison, producer of this radio show, and this time we're bringing you stories

from a Mawth main stage we held in New York City. Our host at night was C.J. Hunt. C.J. is a comedian and filmmaker. He has been a field producer on the daily show with Trevor Noah and the rundown with Robin Thede. on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah and the rundown with Robin Seed. CJ is also the director of the Neutral Ground, an award-winning documentary about monuments, memory, and breaking up with the Confederacy. So here's CJ live at the New York Historical Society. Welcome to the Moth, everybody.

You're here! It's happening! No, you really are here, you're here. I like to think about that a lot because New York is such like a busy city that all of us made it here on time for the show and I think that's really incredible, right? You left your apartment on time, you had your keys, right? You made it down the stairs on the train, even though someone was coming up the wrong way. You made the B train, you got out here,

you avoided the dog poop, you got to your seats, you're here, you're where you need to be. So in celebration of that, I want you to follow me, I want you to take a deep breath in. And I want you to turn to the person you came with. And on three, I want you to say, we're here. One, two, three. We're here. And if you're

alone you can just do it yourself. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. If we're just going to have a really great night, please welcome our first storyteller, Michaela Bly. Applause Hello. So it's the last unit of the year. I'm teaching third grade, and the last unit is the Oregon Trail. And I am prepared to have my students really live the Oregon Trail. This is how I taught third grade.

I would create a world and then run it like a puppet master. And a lot of those times those worlds were goofy. We would have always a game. We got letters from a stuffed animal rock band named Antoclaya and the Howlers who were lost across the United States and we were studying geography, so to help them, we had to study the States.

We got letters from time machines, my characters had names like Cheesy DePizza and Caesar von Salad. I was not a serious teacher, but now this is the Oregon Trail. This is a serious time, and this is also a really complicated time in American history. But to be totally honest, I'm not sure I can get at the historical and moral complexities of Westward expansion with nine-year-olds. They have trouble taking the perspective of their little sister. So I'm not really sure I can do that, but I know I can get at the gravity of it, right?

This is pioneers, 2000 miles across the United States, which weren't the United States yet, across the Rockies, leaving everything they know, risking everything they have, blizzards and hunger and all these things. So at least I can get, it's really real, and at least I can get my kids to feel like it's really real. So I come to my get my kids to feel like it's really real. So I come to my class and I say, we're going to be doing the Oregon Trail. And this one smart, Alec kid named Alex says,

well, will it be a game? Because he knows it's always a game. And I say, yeah. But it's going to be a dangerous game. And they're pretty psyched about that. So what I've planned is like a simulation. We're going to take on characters of pioneers and we're going to travel the Oregon Trail on a wagon train.

So first we have to choose names for our characters. I download and print the names of real people who died on the Oregon Trail. It's preauthentic. And so they can have their first names, but they have to have last names like Chapman and Blunderfield and Alex is now Alex Bacon. And then they have to choose occupations.

And all the girls want to be pop stars. And I tell them there were no pop stars on the Oregon Trail. Choose authentic occupations from the 1840s. So, okay, so great. They're farmers and they're gold miners and there's a couple of doctors and we're good. But before we start, I want them to feel what it really felt like to walk for that long. So I was here in Manhattan. I took them on a 40 block walk.

It's about two miles. It's not that long. It's long if you're a nine year old, I guess. And it's a beautiful day. You know, we're going up the west side. We're going up the Hudson. And Alex Bacon says to me, well, I wouldn't have had to walk. I would have ridden in the wagon. And I said, aha, no, no.

Children never wrote in the wagons. The wagons were for if there were someone sick, or our supplies, or if we had a piano, because I have done my research. And then another kid says, well, I'm thirsty. And I say, well, there were no water fountains on the Oregon Trail. And he says, well, there's a water fountain right there. And I think about the parent phone call I do not

want to get about withholding water from a child. And I think fast. And I say, ah, a stream. How fortunate. Let us partake. And so we finally get back, and we're hot and sweaty, but we're ready, we're ready to go on our journey. And the way I've designed it is, previously, all of my games were just fiction. Like, I would just write a letter, and then they would respond, and I would write another letter that night. I always knew what was going to happen. But now I want to write a letter and then they would respond and I would write another letter that night I always knew what was gonna happen

But now I want to play a little more dangerously because it was all luck what happened on the Oregon Trail, right? so I have designed a game of chance. I have combined do you guys know the Oregon Trail video game? Fans, okay, I've designed I've combined the Oregon Trail video game with principles of dungeons and dragons, the role-playing game with dice. So what we're going to do is every day, I'm going to tell them what happened on the trail that day, they're going to make some choices about what they want to do,

and then we're going to roll dice to see if they succeeded or failed. So I'll give you an example, we get to a river and they have to decide, do they want to pay a fairy man or do they want to ford their wagons and they decide to ford their wagons. And they decide to ford their wagons. We roll to find out if their wagon's sink are floated. That kind of thing. So it's easy.

Great. All right. So the first day starts, and I have this bonnet that I've sewn out of old, a poultry material. And I put on this bonnet, and I tell them, I am Mary, your wagon train captain. We are all here for different reasons, but we will have to work together to get through the bad weather and the hunger and the wild animals that await us. And Alex Bacon says,

excuse me, Mary, this is a dangerous game. Kooie die. And I was a little in character at that point, and I will also admit I wanted to take Alex down a peg. So I said, sure, people died on the Oregon Trail all the time. Someone might die. And this shiver of excitement goes across my class. They liked my stuffed animal rock band, but they were into danger. And I know I'm not going to let anyone die. Like I'm not going to let it get there, right? No one's going to die on the Oregon Trail.

But the idea that someone might gets them wanting to come to social studies every day. So this is OK. So we're off. We're tracking our mileage. And we're rolling dice. And we're making tough choices. And at some point, I have them meet a snake oil salesman

who offers to sell them in a lickser that will make them stronger and faster and get to Oregon City quicker. And something you need to know about nine-year-olds, a lot of them, pretty much all of them, don't know what snake oil salesmen are. I say this to you and you know, this is shorthand for like a con man, right? But to them, it's just someone else

they don't know about, like taxes. Like it's just a thing, like a grown up thing. Okay, snake oil salesmen. So they decide to buy the elixir, because they want to go get their faster. And so we roll to see how much stronger and faster they got. And of course, we all know the answer is none faster. It's snake oil.

So I tell them, actually that was a con. You are throwing up for a day. You lose a day of travel. And I think they're going to be really annoyed that they got slowed down. But they are psyched. They got to throw up in social studies. They're talking about it for days. My game is a hit. slowed down, but they are psyched. They got to throw up in social studies. They're talking about it for days.

My game is a hit. The problem is, every day before we start, someone says to me, is someone going to die today? Is someone going to die today? And I've been putting them off and putting them off, but my game is going so well, and we're getting towards the Rockies, and I figure, you know what, I'm going to give them just a brush with death. So I write I write out a bunch of

possibilities for that day and the next time someone asks me is someone gonna die today? I say we have been lucky thus far but the Rockies lie ahead the most treacherous part of our journey who knows what might happen. So I put on the bonnet And that's what I did. I loved that action And I set the scene for the morning in the early morning light on a rocky mountain pass a wagon hits a rock and is overturned Someone is trapped beneath the wagon. Let us roll to find out who it is. I'm not proud of this. I take off the bonnet and we have like a system of rolls to figure out different kids have different numbers and I roll and it's this little girl Katie. I know. and I roll and it's this little girl, Katie. I know.

Her Oregon trail name is Catherine Chubbick. She's a farmer. She's one of these kids who always has really messy hair and sounds like she's been smoking since she was three. And she has to come to the front of the class and I say Catherine Chubbick, your legs have been trapped beneath the wagon, roll to find out if you get free and what happens and she rolls and she gets free, but her legs have been infected. I wrote these possibilities. And this is the first time I'm thinking, why did I write that possibility?

This is getting really dark and I say, Catherine Chubbickick rolled to find out if your infection gets better or worse. And she rolls and it gets worse. And she looks at me and just goes, did I die? And as soon as she says it, I realize how much trouble I am in. I haven't written any more possibilities. I didn't think we would get this far. So what happens next? Do we have a funeral on the side of the Oregon Trail

for Catherine Chubbick? Is that the parent phone call that I get for having traumatized a girl for killing her on the Oregon Trail? Bad teachers kill kids on the Oregon Trail. And I am not a bad teacher, or so I thought, this is all the stuff that's happening in my head. I'm thinking so much about it. A lot of it is existential and it all of a sudden from the back of the class

This little girl Ellis whose Oregon trail name is Dr. Ellis Chapman just goes wait. I'm a doctor And I'm like thank the Lord Dr. Chapman brings her doctor back. She knows how to heal the wound. Ellis Chapman comes up to the front of the room. I say the only way you roll to find out what happens, the only way you die is if you roll a six. That's the only way you die. The class is holding their breath.

As Katie rolls, she does the lucky shake thing, and then someone just goes, shake them again. She shakes, and she rolls, and it's a three, and she survives. I know, I know. In my class, it's like the end of Apollo 13. Kids are throwing papers in the air, and like hugging each other,

and Ellis is hugging Katie Katie and Katie's just going, I almost died, I almost died. And I'm so glad we agreed to bring a doctor on the Oregon trail with us. She couldn't hunt but she was very useful. And the problem is, so that was great. The problem is we still have 720 miles to Oregon City. And I'm exhausted. I can't remember a time before we were walking

the Oregon Trail. And the next day, I had all this stuff planned. At the next day, I get to class. I put my bonnet on, I tell them, we hear animal noises in the bushes. And Alex Bacon is right on it. He goes, is it wild animals? Are we in danger?

And he says it, and I realize they love the danger. I'm the one who doesn't want the danger. And I throw my plan out the window. It was wild animals, and we were in danger, actually. But I forget about that. I say, no, it is a baby animal with a broken leg who we must adopt for the rest of the trip. And they all do the third grade baby animal noise, which is, oh.

And I say, let us roll to find out what species of baby animal we will be adopting. Is it a baby bunny, a baby fox, or a baby wolf? It's a baby wolf. They name him Yenny the Benny. They love him very much. And he follows us all the way to Oregon. And we get to Oregon in record time.

I mean, forget Pioneer's Walking. This is Amazon Prime two-day shipping to get to Oregon in record time. I mean, forget Pioneer's Walking. This is Amazon Prime two-day shipping to get to Oregon City. Nothing bad happens between the Rockies and Oregon City. And when we get there, we do, we homestead, and we do our budgets, and we do all that stuff. But we also make Cornbread, and we have a dance party to September by Earth Wind and Fire, which is not historically

accurate. But that is the kind of organ trail I want to be on at that point. So that's the organ trail, but I have to tell you guys about a year ago, I ran into Katie on the street on Broadway, and she's in ninth grade now. She looks exactly the same except that she's been stretched, you know, and I recognized her right away, and she recognized me, and we hugged, and I said, how are you?

And she said, and the first thing she said to me was, do you remember when I almost died on the Oregon Trail? I said, yeah, Katie, I absolutely remember. Thank you. I'm Kayla Blie. Michaela Blie was a classroom teacher for eight years, or ten if you count substitute teaching. She's a two-time, Moth New York City Grand Slam champion and she's been teaching storytelling since 2011. Her solo show was the secret life of your third grade teacher.

To this day, Michaela still runs into former students and every single one of them remembers their lessons on the Oregon Trail. It has for Michaela she's been searching for her bonnet for years, but she says it's lost to the past. Coming up, more stories from this live show in New York City. We get away from home, we're in a very childless state and whole Someone strong enough, all about to tear down the wall We must and I'll never forget The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX

This is The Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Jay Allison and we're bringing you a live event from 2017 at the New York Historical Society in New York City. The host for the show was C.J. Hunt. The theme of the night was give me liberty. Give me liberty. When I think about that theme, I get really excited because I remember that I'm going to move in a week and I am finally free of my lease with my current landlord. And our apartment is, this is officially my first year living in a New York apartment, and I've learned all the lessons that you learn when you're brand new to the city. You know, like the newbie beginner lessons. And one lesson I've learned in our apartment

is that every time that there's a maintenance problem with the apartment, my girlfriend and I are suddenly thrust into some weird game show called Is CJ a Man Yet? And I don't know the rules of this show. The stakes are always incredibly high for no reason. And the challenges are always like, we're going to find out just how much sewage can pour into the apartment before CJ has the balls to call the landlord.

Like those are the challenges. I didn't understand before moving here that like apartment issues are relationship tests. You know, it's like how much do you love me? How much courage is in there? Recently, some guys were smoking weed in our apartment, not in our apartment, but in the lobby of our apartment, and the smoke was just coming in under the door.

And my girlfriend said to me, the words that no coward wants to hear ever, in the lobby of our apartment, and the smoke was just coming in under the door. And my girlfriend said to me the words that no coward wants to hear ever, which is, you need to go talk to those men. Cowards in the audience, clap it up, and it's okay. You're scared to clap, it's okay. You know where you are. You're like, I'll just nod and agree. You never want to hear that.

Go talk to those men. Because my first reaction is like the same as when I was on the school yard. I'm like, I don't know those boys. But I need to go talk to them. But you don't say that to your girlfriend, which you say is, of course, babe. Because that's the only thing you can say in that situation. Because even though I'm like, deathly afraid of conflict, like if you are messing with the person I love, it's a problem.

You know, like if you are making the woman I love uncomfortable in our home, you bet I'm going to come tell you something. So I said, babe, I'm going to go tell them something. All right, you don't worry. And I walked out and I was all confident. I was like, excuse me, gentlemen! I'm just trying to get by. And then just scooted to the mailboxes. And then just checked my mail and was like nothing

okay can I get back in. You have a fun day with the weed guys. Have a fun. Have a fun re-first smoke guys. And I just wish that I was brave. You know like I wish that I had the courage to be like hey this is a building don't do that in here brave. Like I wish that I had the courage to be like, hey, this is a building, don't do that in here, but I don't have that bravery, but I'm working on it. And that's what I like about live storytelling shows, that feeling of, we're all just working on it, right? We're all just trying to be brave or virgins of ourself, and there's something about

watching someone come up to the mic where you're like, yes, I want to be brave as well. And we have a storyteller who when asked about the last liberty that he took told us that he doesn't take liberties. He's just the type of rule follower that if he got stopped at a broken red light in the middle of the desert, he would die in his car. I'm glad it hasn't happened so that you can welcome to the stage Mr. Nathan Englinder. So it's the middle 90s and a peace treaty gets signed between Israel and Jordan. And if you're already wondering what that has to do with a Jewish boy from Long Island, I've been spending an enormous

amount of time in Israel and it really feels like a second home at this point. And I've completely co-opted their culture. And yes, everyone's excited about peace, but there's a second part which is Jordan contains the ancient Nabatean city of Petra. And this is a huge part of Israeli culture, and there are legends, and there are dreams. Everyone just wants to see that ancient red rock. They want to see that desert city. I mean, there are songs about it, folk songs about it, there's just endless things connected

to it, and my favorite part is, every few years a couple of kids will literally sneak across the border, like crawl through a minefield, make their way to the desert just to see that city and then be caught by Jordanian authorities and return as like hailed as idiotic heroes that everybody just, you know, dreams of doing the same thing. Well now you can cross the border, you can go and see Petra. And that is a pretty exciting dream for me. The other thing is, at this point in time, I am a super serious photographer, and you're all invited over after to see my slideshow.

But I'm doing studio work, I'm all dead serious, but I'm also traveling, and I've got my pyramids and my acropolis and my Eiffel Tower and my London Bridge. And man, do I want Petra like through my viewfinder? I want those pictures so bad. The complicating and mitigating factor is that I am cowardly. I was you know we call my mother the danger police. I'm terrified of everything. I don't want to cross that boat like what if something happens you know what the piece goes bad

like do we need to be the first Jews like rushing over being all loud you know in Aman. It's you know it's it's really not what I'm gonna do and that's when my friend Mike calls. And Mike and I, we really get along perfectly because if we were even 10 years younger, Mike would be so medicated into submission to have like, you know, literally like a riddle in drip. He would just be like,

comatose and quiet and really well behaved. But what he is is brilliant and energetic and a ton of fun and really convincing with me and he's like, I know it's your dream, it's my dream, like let's do it, we can get there, let's get tickets, you know, so we're like, I'm on it. So I grab one pair of skis, these toothbrush floss, gum care. But anyway, but I also take my 90 pound bag of camera equipment, I got my FM2 and my pistol grip and my, you know,

fisheye lands and my telephoto and also youngins, there's something, you know what's inside a camera at that point? What's inside an FM2? Nothing. There's a mirror that flips up, and then there's film. You put film in the back. So I've got X-ray bags,

because I'm, again, an artist, and I don't want the flight to alter my images. Anyway, but I'm like, I've got my high speed and my grainy, and I've got like 10 million pounds of film, and we get on that plane and change about 96 more times, and we hit Jerusalem, and we get on that plane and change about 96 more times and we hit Jerusalem and we make camp and then we get on a whole bus full of Jews and we cross the

Allen B bridge and the Jordan River and it is not only biblical it's like modern moving like there is peace that is a great and exciting thing and I'm having a great time you know with Mike in Amman in Jarash and he's the kind of guy like he behave himself but it's always like you know he gets me there but then I'm like in gyrosh and he's the kind of guy, like he behaves himself, but it's always like, he gets me there, but then I'm like, why are you touching that? Why are you over there? Do you see anyone else on the other side

of that red velvet rope? Then you probably should back here. But I'm saying we're doing fine and we get into the desert and we get to Petra and Petra is not there. What is there are two giant stone cliffs, like two mighty cliffs with a crack in between. There is a small path and you are just transported through time. You know, you just think what it must be to cross through the desert.

You're not know if you're gonna live and die where you're gonna get water and to enter this crack between these like two mighty cliffs and walk and walk and then it opens up and there is this stunning city. And if I haven't made it clear, it is not built Petra, it is not constructed. It is carved in the reverse Mount Rushmore style like from the tip of your nose on back in the mountains. This is not with digital imaging you'd faint at the beauty of it. But this notion that they did in like 300 BC, I just can't get over.

It is more stunning than I imagine. I'm taking my pictures and there are the pillars and the treasury and the statuary and the temples. But what I care about what I'm most obsessed with is the geometry. There are these triangles. I mean perfect triangles, ornate, cut in the reverse. And that is what really, those are the main pictures. That is what I'm getting at the end.

I've like found my subject and I get my photos. And it is honestly a dream come true. Mike has broken nothing. We're on our way back to the bus. And someone, it's the desert. Someone has parked a donkey next to the bus, same lot. You know what I'm saying? And then Mike needs his silly photo.

That's me, art photo, silly photo. So Mike needs, I got my triangle? And then Mike needs his silly photo. That's me, art photo, silly photo. So Mike needs, I got my triangle and then I, here is Mike and he's doing it, especially silly pose and I know this is a great moment for him and I zoom and I focus and for New Yorker, this is a different wonder of the world. But at first I'm like, oh, it's a silly pose with a five like a donkey. And then I understand, I was like, that's not a leg. Like, this donkey is super excited to see us like it is a fully erect donkey and this is

you know for you know my triangles this is Mike's moment you know I'm saying so I get the photo for him nobody's hurt donkey's not touched you know nobice reality we're good we get on the bus we you know drive back across that pitch back into Israel it really feels like coming home for me. We've had this great trip. And again, back to feeling Jewish in a Muslim country and feeling like this Israel Jordan thing. We are so high on cross-cultural understanding and the emotion of it and the religious

love where, like, let's go get our Christianity on. So we head straight for the old city and we head straight for the church of the Holy Sepulchre. And, you know, for, I'll give you a little tour, but before you go in the church of the Holy Sepulchre, to the left, there's a guy sitting on the chair, and this guy is a Muslim guy, and he has a key. Why does he have a key? Because his father had the key, and his father's father,

and his father's father's father's father, it goes back forever. He has the key because you sort of understand the region, nobody gets along, everyone gets to the like, what's the problem? And you're like, the problem with peace is Jews don't get along with Jews, Muslims don't get along with Christians. There are maybe six factions that share the church

and the Franciscans don't get along with the Latin patriarch and the Greek Orthodox don't get along with the Ethiopian church. And for that reason, this guy sits there, he unlocks the church for the Christians every day. And that key is 500 years old. And it's 500 years old, because the 800 year old key broke. That's how long his family's been sitting there.

And then over the door, there is a ladder because someone was going to fix something or move something or clean an officer get up there. But then again, the fight breaks out. It's my let you can't go up it, but I can come down it. That immovable ladder has been sitting there for 300 years. That's the church. I want to go in, but of course Mike, you know, he's wild and crazed and energetic.

He's also super charming. He's with a whole bunch of priests, you know, right by the door. They're all smiling and laughing and we need a mic photo, right? Before we go in there and he gets them all around them. Everyone's crowd around smiling, mic in the middle and he gives the old Fonzy thumbs up. A big happy hey thumbs up. You know, everybody's smiling. I get the photo. We step, you know, out of Jerusalem sun into the darkness and the dust might and all this guilt, you know, but sort of ancient beauty. It's extraordinary. And there is like a six foot marble slab. This is where they washed Christ's body

before in this same place he was entombed and from where Christ rose. You know what I'm saying? Like I am standing at this marble slab where his body was washed. And for me who likes to live through a camera lens, I put my camera down and everybody else is filming, we're filled with tourists,

but I am having a quiet transcendent moment. It is big for me. And that's when I get hit in the back of the head. And I get hit again and I'm getting grabbed and I'm sort of getting, you know, beaten around the head and neck, you know what I'm saying? And I look over and it is an ancient priest who is beating me with a whole bunch of backup priests. You know,

I don't know what's gonna go on if it's gonna be a pile-on, but he's getting first round. And if in my little exploration of different religions, I have to say one huge point for Christianity, like literally how many rabbis over time wanted to give me a good zet and beat some sense into me. And it is a first beating delivered by a priest. So good for you, church. Anyway, but I'm being dragged outside. All those video cameras, now they got action

more than a marble slab. Everyone's filming me. I look over, Mike's being dragged out, but I'm getting like the brunt of it. I can't stand what's going, I can't figure out what's going on. And the first thing that I figure out is the reason he gets to give the beating

is this old priest is he's not just in charge of these priests. He's in charge of all the priests. He's in charge of the church. He's in charge of all the Christians of Palestine and Israel. This is basically the Pope of Jerusalem. This is the most holy man in town and he's furious at me. I've got that part down. And then I saw this out the second bit, which is relevant, which is we've had a little cultural misunderstanding. You see, Mike's thumbs up where this guy's from, that is literally raising the middle finger. You know what I'm saying?

So basically we thought, hey, thumbs up for Jesus, and what he's done is given a middle finger to all that is holy and good, and Jesus like in the most holy place on Earth, right? So I'm trying to like get things better because again I am now terrified. I mean this is the guy who can pick up and call the prime minister of Israel He can call my president like for those of you Don't know current events or have never heard of history at all things in Jerusalem blow up so easy You know I'm saying?

Like, this can go big and bad. And by the way, back to nightly news, I'm like, we're not going to be on local night. We're going to be like global possibly, and they've got about 17 camera angles. They can make a nice reel of us being beaten and dragged out. Like, everyone is following the tourists are coming to film this.

Anyway, I'm just saying like, Fanzi, hey, hit your ride. Happy times. I'm trying to explain this something, but it will not go away. And I am terrified, and Mike's trying to keep me calm. That's always his job. And then it gets bigger.

And then I understand he's not just mad at me. This guy's mad at my camera. It's not just the motion. It's, I took a picture of it. So, easiest pie there, I give us the film. There's one problem. I'm a coward on every front, but when it comes to the arts, I'll do anything.

Those are my petro photos. You know what I'm saying? You can't have them. And I won't give up the photos, and I don't think I've ever seen Mike look scared, but he's just giving them, but I'm not giving the picture. And this is maybe the only point me and the very angry priest agree on,

because I'm like, I am not leaving here without that film and they're like no you're literally not leaving here without that film like we are surrounded we are put up against the wall and sat down and it is getting anger and more upsetting and there is no understanding happening between us at all and somebody sends for a Jewish policeman to get over here and he listens and he's listening and I'm not giving up the film and they're not letting us go and it is actually an

incident is taking place which is my worst nightmare and then the cop you know like he's done his cop training he's like we have evidence you know why not just give me the film we'll develop that we'll let's look at the photo in question so he sends off it's back to the film time, the world of film, at the time where everyone has film about every eight feet is a photo mat. So even in the old city in Jerusalem, you can buy your worry beads and your sheep gloves

and all that, but there's got photo mats. So they bring back the Muslim photo mat guy. And he's like, I'm on the case. So I was like, I trust this guy. He looks like a good man. I roll up my film and I was like, fine, let's do this. Let's judge. Let's see because you know what?

I'm sitting there and I'm surrounded and I'm terrified but like the tiniest trickle of confidence is starting to come in. And I'm looking at that ladder and I'm thinking, we're in trouble after two minutes here. But you guys have been here for 2,000 years, not getting along. Like what happened to my theology?

This is the complete Christian theology by me, turn the other cheek. That's the only thing I know. But I'm like, what about like, turn the other cheek? What about believing we are good people? Like, he's a good guy. Like, can't you see? Like, why not give the benefit of the doubt

that would not only help this church and this city and this region would help everybody in the world? You know what I'm saying? And I'm getting all positive and feeling almost righteous and then the donkey. Oh, the world. Do you know what I'm saying? And I'm getting all positive and feeling almost righteous and then the donkey. Oh, the donkey. The photo before that photo. Well, we all know what that is. And I'm thinking we are bad boys. We are very, very bad. And we deserve what we're getting. And I hope under the church is a church prison for us because we should really do our time. So now I'm in a terror and forget one hour photo.

I mean this guy is rushing but it is 10 lifetimes for me dying there, you know, waiting, terrified and God bless photomat guy. That's why I'm here tonight to tell you God bless photomat guy. He could have done whatever he wanted. He's seen them all. He brings back an envelope of negatives and he has made one single print. He has printed the photo in question and he gives this to Pope of Jerusalem priest and he studies it with his other priest studying behind him and they look at us and he's studying this

picture and you know what? Also, God bless that guy because you know what? That motion is one motion to him. He doesn't have to see another motion. He doesn't have to hear any sense, and he doesn't have to believe that we have any good will at all. But he looks at that photo, and he sees his smiling priests, and he sees a smiling mic. And you know, again, don't know much of theology, but like he forgives us, we're absolved. You know, he pockets the photo, I get back my precious negatives, and like that, like a cloud of black robes, you know, the priests move off into the dark, and we're free to go. And I just, you know, that moment is so big to me.

I think about it like with our Muslim photo mat guy, God bless him again, and our Jewish policeman, and a whole bunch of Christian priests. We carved out a little corner of peace in Jerusalem and status quo was restored. Thank you so much. Nathan Englander. Nathan Englander is the author of five books, most recently the novel catish.com. His play, What We Talk About When We talk about Anne Frank, will premiere at the old Globe

Theater in San Diego this September. He is distinguished writer and residence at New York University and lives in Toronto with his wife and children. Nathan hasn't taken any serious pictures in 30 years, although his dog is always happy to sit for an iPhone shoot. If you do want to see a picture of Nathan around the time of his trip plus a small collection of his other photography, visit our website, TheMoth.org. Our final story coming up from this live event in New York City. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and it's presented by the Public Radio Exchange,prx.org. You're listening to The Moth Radio Hour from PRX, I'm Jay Allison, producer of this radio

show, and we're bringing you a live event from the New York Historical Society in New York City. The theme was give me liberty, and the host was C.J. Hunt. Your next storyteller, when asked about the last time that she took a liberty, said that one of the liberties she really enjoys is the liberty of correcting her middle school students, even though she's not technically their teacher. We know that feeling of being like, I know I'm not your teacher.

That's why I'm telling you to stop. Please welcome your third storyteller, Barbara Bowie. My brother and I were born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi during Jim Crow. In 1961, my brother got involved with Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. He became a freedom writer. Well I loved my brother and I always wanted to do everything he did but I did not know what a freedom writer was but my brother was 19 and I was only 13. So this actually became a very serious movement for him because the freedom riders were challenging segregation in interstate transportation across the South. And so they the colored only white only signs and the separation and bathrooms and and restaurants and water fountains and all of that. And so my this was very

dangerous for them as well because the Ku Klux Klan did not want this to happen. So they were getting beat up and arrested and all of that. Well my young friends and I heard about the protest and the city and so we thought, oh, okay, we can do this and could have fun doing it. Because there were, it wasn't that we didn't understand what was going on, but there, we would be able to go into restaurants and shops that said, white's only.

So, for instance, there was a restaurant in our neighborhood that we used to go to almost every day after school. But on one side it said, colored only, on the other side it said, white's only. Well, the color side was kind of small. It had a couple of booths, a jukebox. We could put a nickel in there and here on music, and a counter. And if we wanted to get something to eat, there was a window there with a doorbell. So we'd go up to that window. We could order hot dogs, French fries, and sodas on paper plates and cups. But as you stand in there at that window,

you can see the other side. And the other side was big with lots of tables, white tablecloths and settings, and white people were seated and being served dinner. So this was wrong. This was how we were treated. And we understood that. So because when my mother would take us shopping for a school clothes, the first thing she'd say to me is, Bob, go use the bathroom. And I'm like, Mama, I already used to go use the bathroom again. And I didn't understand that.

So until we were downtown one day in the store and she had picked out a few items and I had to use the bathroom. And she got very upset with me because she had to put those things back. She had to leave that store and go to a feeder street where there were colored businesses. Use the bathroom, go back to the store and start over again. While we were in the store, she had to know my sizes because they would not allow us to try on clothes or shoes. And so, and you know, if you bought something that was too

small or too big, they would not allow us to bring it back. So, when we would leave the store, mama would grab my hand. And I said, mama, I'm a big girl. You don't have shut up, gal. And when a white person would approach us, we had to get off the sidewalk and let them by. Well, mama had to pull me off the sidewalk. And so I did understand what was going on, how we were being treated, and that it was wrong. I just didn't understand what the civil rights movement or what the freedom writers could do about it,

because this was our lives. This was how we were raised. This was how it was. This was what we accepted. You know, and I didn't know, I didn't think that there was anything that could be done about it until several years later, one day I was coming home from downtown with my friends. And I was going up my street, my house was on the corner.

So as I was walking up, everybody was saying, Bobby, Bobby, you need to get home. Your mom got sick and she was taken to the hospital. And so first of all, I'm like hospital. We never went to the hospital. Mama always had home remedies. So I ran home and I tried to find someone to take me and I couldn't.

So I ran up and I tried to find someone to take me and I couldn't. So I ran up to the hospital and when I got there, Mama was sitting in the waiting room, the emergency room, with a friend who had brought her there. And she was very distraught. She looked like she was going to pass out. And she was sweaty, clammy, and she had a cold paper towel on her head. And she said, I'm trying to keep from vomiting again.

And her friend told me, you know, she had vomited a washpan for the blood. And I'm like, I didn't believe that. This is a washpan. And then, you know, so I said, well, how long have you guys been here? And he said, we've been here since about two o'clock. And I looked and it was about 5.30. So I went up to the desk and I said, you know, my mom has been here since two.

She needs to see the doctor. She needs to lie down. And the young lady said, very rudely, we don't have a bed for your mother. And there are other people here who need to see the doctor before your mother. So all I could do was go and sit out and wait with them. And as I'm sitting there I'm seeing people being called up to see the doctor. Now some of them might have been there before me, but most of them were coming in after

and they were being called, they were all white. So about 9.30 or so, they call mama. And I said, wow, I was glad I said she can light out, she'll see the doctor taking in the treatment room. So we're waiting for the doctor and the nurse came in with the wheelchair. And she said, I'm sorry, we're gonna have to put your mother outside the door for a while

because we have someone else who needs to see the doctor. And I was like, no, my mama's been here since 2 o'clock. She needs to see the doctor. Well, I'm a teenager, so they ignored me. And so when they went together, she vomited. And she almost filled that room with blood. So now nurses and doctors are coming from everywhere and she need blood transfusions and all of that and they took her up to the fifth floor. So my brother came and we went up to

the fifth floor looking for mama and as I was passing by this treatment room, I heard a burst of laughter coming out and I looked through the little crack and doctors and nurses. And I said, that's where Mama is, because no matter what was going on or whether she was sick or whatever, Mama always had something funny to say or do, to make your laugh. And so they took her to 501. something funny to say or do, to make your laugh.

And so they took her to 501 and we're waiting outside the room to go in, to see her. I wanted to hug Mama. I wanted to say I love you. The doctor came out and he said, it's very late, we're trying to get her admitted. Why don't you all go home and come back the next day. I don't want to leave. I want to see Mama. I want to say I love you because we were a family who never said that to one another. I never

remembered saying that to my mama. But he wouldn't let us in. So we left and the very next morning we came back she was critical. So we were waiting outside her room again and waiting to go in and see her, wanting to say I love you and the doctor came out and he said, we're preparing your mother for surgery. And so we couldn't go in again. And so when they were rolling her out on the stretcher, I could see just the glimpse of her face between their bodies. And her eyes were swollen and red, and she had tears.

And I just got this big, hard ball right in the middle of my chest. And we went down to the second floor, waiting for her to come out of surgery. And we waited and waited and waited. And finally the doctor came out and he said, I'm sorry, your mother didn't make it. And I just burst into tears and I cried and I cried and I cried for days. But it was at that moment that I realized what that civil rights movement was all about. I realized why those freedom writers were challenging the colored only, white only signs and going to restaurants and I even realized why we went in to do sit-ins and protest. This movement was about our lives. This movement was about equality. This movement was about our life and death.

Barbara Bowie. That was Barbara Collins Bowie. She was born in Jackson, Mississippi. Throughout her life, she's been a nurse, a poet, and was elected as the first black city councilwoman of Kirby, Texas in 2017. She continues her civil rights journey through the Dr. Bowie Foundation, encouraging future generations to use the stories of the freedom riders in the pursuit of freedom, justice, and racial equality. For more information about all of Barbara's efforts, you can visit our website, TheMoth.org.

That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the story from The Moth. Your host this hour was writer and comedian CJ Hunt. CJ is also a field producer for BET's late night show The Run Down with Robin Thede, and he's directing a documentary about America's painful love affair with Confederate monuments. Katherine Burns made bowls in Katherine McCarthy directed the stories in the show. The rest of the most directorial staff includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin, Janess, and Jennifer Hickson.

Production support from Timothy Looley. staff includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin Janess, and Jennifer Hickson, production support from Timothy Lulee. Most stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift, other music in this hour from Goat Roadio, Geora Fiedman, and Punch Brothers. You can find links to all the music we use at our website. The Malth radio hour is produced by me, Jay Allison, with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the National Endowment for the Arts. The

Moth Radio Hour is presented by the Public Radio Exchange, PRX.org. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, TheMawth.org. You