The Munk Debates Podcast - Friday Focus: Zelensky clashes with Trump and Canada faces tariff threats - again

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

Friday Focus provides listeners with a focused, half-hour masterclass on the big issues, events and trends driving the news and current events. The show features Janice Gross Stein, the founding director of the Munk School of Global Affairs and bestselling author, in conversation with Rudyard Griffiths, Chair and moderator of the Munk Debates. The following is a sample of the Munk Debates' weekly current affairs podcast, Friday Focus. Janice and Rudyard react to the shocking Oval Office press conference between Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump. Was Zelensky's decision to respond in kind to Trump's aggression a smart move? Zelensky showed great courage, but did he make gains for his country?  In the second half of the show Rudyard and Janice turn to Canada which is facing another tariff threat from the US, a liberal leadership race coming to a close, and a possible election call in the coming days. How has Donald Trump's erratic and aggressive behaviour influenced polls in Canada and who voters see as the best candidate to manage this turbulent period? To access full-length editions of the Friday Focus podcast consider becoming a donor to the Munk Debates for as little as $25 annually, or $.50 per episode. Canadian donors receive a charitable tax receipt. This podcast is a project of the Munk Debates, a Canadian charitable organization dedicated to fostering civil and substantive public dialogue. More information at www.munkdebates.com.Become a Munk Donor ($50 annually) to get 72-hour advanced access to the full length editions of Friday Focus and Munk Dialogues. Go to www.munkdebates.com to sign up. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The following is a complimentary excerpt of this week's edition of the Friday Focus podcast by The Monk Debates. To access full-length editions of each and every episode, along with all kinds of great additional benefits and perks, become a donor to the Monk debates. You can do that for as little as $25 a year, and you'll receive each and every year 50 Friday Focus episodes at full length. It's all available right now on our website. in just a few simple clicks. Triple W. The Monk Debates.com. Look for the Friday Focus option in our navigation bar, the top right of the website.

Make your donation, and we will send you each and every Friday a link to listen to the full-length edition of this program. Thanks in advance for your generous contribution. Ruddy Griffiths here, the chair of the Monk Debates. Welcome to this, the Friday Focus podcast. As always, I'm joined by Janice Gross Stein, the founding director of the Monk School of Public Affairs. Janice, great to be in conversation with you today. It is great. Ruder, and I know you and I are going to talk about something like of which I have never seen is all I can say.

Well, let's do that right off the top of the show, Janice. I'm going to play some audio for the folks that are listening to us, video for those tuning into the YouTube edition of this program. what we're going to hear is an extraordinary conversation, argument that unfolded this afternoon in the Oval Office between President Donald Trump, Vice President Johnson Vance, and Zelensky, the President of Ukraine. Let's have a listen. I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Yes, but he, if you unknowled strong. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems You should be thanking the president for trying to bring it into this conflict

Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have? I have been to come once I have actually I've actually watched and seen the stories and I know what happens is you bring people You bring them on a propaganda tour mr. president? Are do you disagree that you've had problems? What? Bringing people into your military? We have problems? And do you think that it's respectful? I will answer. I will answer. I will answer.

I will answer. And attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country. A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure. First of all, during the war, everybody has problems. Even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. God bless.

You don't know that. You don't know that. You don't know that. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're going to feel. I'm not telling you. Because you're in no position to dictate that. Remember this. I'm not, you're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel.

We're going to feel very good. We're going to feel very good and very strong. You will feel influence. You're right now not in a very good position. You've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it. From the very beginning of the war, you're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards. But right now you're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III.

You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. It's back to you. Far more than a lot of people said they should have. Have you said thank you once? A lot of times. No, in this entire meeting that you said thank you. Even today.

You went to Pennsylvania in campaign for the opposition in October, offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country. Well, Janice, there you have it. We want your reaction off the top of the show. What do we say? Let me start by saying that in a lifetime of watching press conferences between leaders who come to the White House. I'd never, ever seen anything being illegally, remotely like this. It is just extraordinary. It breaks every diplomatic convention.

With respect to the content, I think we all got a window into J.D. Vance and Donald Trump. You know, we're not privy to these kinds of private conversations. We're not in the room when they're having it. And you saw what I am surrequist. more than anything else, as you saw Donald Trump shout down, Zelensky.

Tell him that he had no cards, that only with the United States, did he have cards? And literally yell over Zelensky as Zelensky frankly, engaged

with somebody who was already irate and angry and Donald Trump went up the ladder. This is a masterclass, frankly, for every leader who was going to come to the White House. We have seen it now in the open. Well, what is the lesson of that master class? Because what I'm struggling with here, Janice, is that nobody got anything that they wanted today. The Trump administration did not get this, frankly, kind of sham mineral rights agreement. out of Ukraine, that they were, I would say, not simply asking, almost extorting in turn for our, I guess, presumably future military shipments of arms. They didn't get that. Zelensky didn't get anything approaching a promise and indication of a security guarantee. So how does the world

operate, Janice, when its superpower represented by President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance, in front of the public with cameras rolling are engaging in what I can only describe as a Donnybrook, a rhetorical Donnybrook with another head of state. See, I think it's worse than a Donnybrook, although I completely agree, Richard, that's what it was. And you don't do that. You don't do that in public. They happen in private, but not in public. I think this is worse than a Donnybrook.

we all sat there and watched Donald Trump bully Zelensky. That's what that was, right? He shouted him down. He yelled over him. He told him he was risking World War III. He told him that with the United States, Zelensky would fight alone and he would figure out how weak he was. It was a bully screaming literally at Zelensky. Now, if you're one of the.

25 or 30 countries in the world has a close relationship with the United States. Take us, for example, we do. And yet there are really important disagreements with Trump and the people around him. And you watch that? I think the first lesson is you're not going to put yourself in that kind of situation. You're going to try to minimize the contact you have with this president. you're not going to expose yourself to that because it ends up lose-lose, which is what this was this morning.

And if you are in contact with this president, you're going to do what we have seen leaders do. And let's call it up for what it is, Roger. They don't challenge. They don't take them on. You can say outrageous things. They smile. And they don't take him on because they know.

that if they take them on, this is what they'll get. That's the lesson, and that's really tragic. Well, I think there's another lesson here today, which is Starmar, the president of the United Kingdom, was in the White House also and took that different route, the non-confrontational, I would say, obsequious approach to how to interact and manage the president. And I think Starmor came out of that.

under a lot of criticism. When asked directly what he thought about President Trump's comments regarding annexing Canada, turning it into the 51st state, and would King Charles see this as a threat to his realm, I think. I love to how the reporter asked that question. Starmer completely blew it off, said, we're not here to talk about things that are dividing us. You know, we're here to have good conversation.

Janice, I mean, you can say that Zelensky made an error here, but it's kind of like saying, well, somebody walked out onto a street and a driver ran a red light and hit them with their car. I mean, I feel very sympathetic to Zelensky because there comes a point, Janice, where you kind of have to call a spade a spade. You kind of have to say, I'm not doing crazy. I'm not going to be humiliated. I'm not going to lie about things. I'm not going to use language that fails to describe the world as it is. I'm not going to be sucked into some kind of fantasy scape that is in my interlocular, in this case, in the president's imagination, that I'm a traitor, that I started this war,

that I presume that Russia is the victim. Janice, like, I don't know. It may make sense what you're saying, but I think it's a short-term view as to the bigger problem that we face, which is that this is unreality. This is something that people have got to start resisting. And my hat's off to Zelensky today for despite all the pressure he's under and all the risks that he and his country are running, he didn't take the bullshit. He actually spoke truth to power. And I think if more leaders did that, in fact, if they got a backbone and together banded together and began to speak with the Americans about the realities

of the world and the realities of Donald Trump's deranged foreign policy, then I think, I think that would have consequences and I think it would have consequences for the administration, political and otherwise. So look, Roger, to be, let me make myself very, very clear, I have enormous sympathy for Zelensky here. Donald Trump is a bold. That's what he does. He bullies people. He smells weakness. Just his language. You mean, you don't have any cards. And with us, you have all the cards. Just as, you know, bully type, classic bully type behavior. But here's the problem. Don Trump's the president. He's the elected president of the United States. And it doesn't matter in the short term, by which I mean the next 18 months. This is true telling, right? It doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. In the short term, by which I mean, the next 18 months. And this is true telling, right? It doesn't matter how many countries band together and how many leaders confront him. He is the president of the United States and what he orders will happen.

He has executive authority. And until he infringes on that in the arts of the Congress or the courts in the United States, he's the president. So especially smaller countries like Canada, like Ukraine, have to, endure this for another 18 months until the midterm elections, when hopefully the American people who watch this will be as repelled, frankly, as we are watching it. And so the prime ministers and presidents have a short-term obligation to preserve the national interests

of the countries they represent. It's not a question of integrity here, Rudyard, unfortunately. Although Zelensky has that in space. Look, I see this differently. I think you, there are certain things, lines that are crossed, realities that are stretched to the breaking point. And we can either live in these fantasies and delusions and hallucinations or we can choose not to. And I, yeah, I think, and you're seeing it already, at least here in Canada, thankfully, a strong patriotic reaction to. to this administration and an expectation on the part of our politicians that they will stand up for

this country and that they will speak truth to power and that we will not sit here and have him say that, you know, fentanyl is pouring across the northern border and I'm slapping tariffs on Canada as early as next week. It's a lie. It's a lie. It's a lie. It's false. It's fake. It's phony. It's delusional. And I'm sorry, Janice, but I'm not going to live in someone else's delusion and I'm not going to support politicians and political leaders that are going to say, yes, Mr. President, there's lots of Fenton all coming across your northern border. No, we will not respond to your tariffs. Yes, sir, can I please have another, sir? No, they don't have to do that. And you know, they don't have to do that because it is a lie that fence on this port.

across the Canadian border into the United States. In fact, there is a microscopic amount, there is a microscopic amount of a previously microscopic amount. This is not a real problem, and everybody knows that. But that doesn't matter because next week, if Donald Trump wants to impose tariffs, he's going to do it. And the pain is going to be felt disproportionately in Canada, in comparison to the United States.

I'd say bring it on. Bring it on. I bring it on because you know what? Americans do not live in a bubble. His opinion polls are falling, Janice. His negatives are rising. And it's not just because the price of eggs. It's because Americans see how the rest of the world is reacting to him.

They are seeing the shame that he is bringing on their country. They're looking at that behavior in the White House and saying that is an unhinged individual. Hats off to Zelensky for revealing the insolensky for revealing the incentive. sanity of it for ripping aside the veil of a presidential mystique and power to show what it really is and how he actually operates and the way he thinks and talks he lost today Trump lost today he lost with the American voter of course he did of course he did but so did Zelensky that's the point and yes he's unhinged I mean he just showed how unhinged he is and by the way look at jennie that he far more coherent, an articulate version of Donald Trump, just so that everybody understands where

we are here, that this may go on longer than many of us hope. But how do you deal with an unhinged person, Richard? If you meet an unhinged person in the street that's obviously unhinged, do you take that person on? Do you poke them? Do you challenge them? We know not to do that. I don't. I don't swallow the red pill. I don't. I don't swallow the red pill. I don't swallow the red pill. I'm sorry, I take the blue pill every time. You walk around or you walk by, but you don't stop and engage in an altercation. And that's the fundamental disagreement between you.

I mean, it's not about lack of admiration for the courage and the integrity of Zelensky. Nor do we, we are both completely agreed that Donald Trump is unhinged. We disagree on tactics. You say poke him in the eye. and I say, as a Canadian, no way. I think if he's swinging a baseball bat at your head, you kick him in the crotch. I'm sorry, but you do not,

because you don't have a choice to walk around him. I don't think that's an accurate analogy. You don't have a choice. He is swinging a baseball bat at your head, and you have a choice. I guess you just stand there and take the head and hope you don't wake up in hospital, or you go on the offensive.

And, you know, I think, Zelensky actually showed remarkable restraint today. I mean, I couldn't agree more. But let's talk about Kier Starmor for a minute. He walked in there. He ducked every curveball that was thrown at his head, as you rightly said, including us. He didn't, frankly, give a damn about us. And then produced an invitation from King Charles to Donald Trump for a state visit,

proceeded by a special visit to Scotland. Come on. And Donald Trump purred. said, well, maybe the United Kingdom would be exempt from tariffs. There you have the black and the white of it, right? You're all in one day. This is who we are dealing with. And then just wait what Donald Trump asks from you the next day.

Wait until, you know, he wakes up and grabs his phone and gets on truth, social. And what next pound of flesh he pulls out of you. Yeah, maybe Starmor had a victory for 24 hours. He goes away looking like a cuck, like Trump's cuck, and I think he looks kind of humiliated and weak. And I think Trump senses now the weakness of this man. And trust me, Trump's not done with the United Kingdom. Like, this is not over.

So I'm not so sure this strategy works. But look, Janice, we've got to say goodbye because we've given them a lovely taste of this show and the debates that we like to have of our complimentary audience here. We're going to join our monk members on the other side of this short break to talk about tariffs because they're arriving as potentially in a matter of days and hours here in Canada. And we've got a liberal leadership underway. We could be into an election as early as March 13th. So much going on here in Canada.

And we're going to get into all that right after this short break. Thanks for listening to this excerpt of the first. Friday Focus podcast to get full-length editions of each and every episode of this program. Simply go to our website, triple-W, the monk debates.com. Click on the Friday Focus tab in our navigation on the top right of the site. Make a donation as little as $25 a year of 50 cents an episode. And we'll send you not only the full-length editions of each and every Friday Focus podcast, but all kinds of special offers, perks.

access to events and additional content. Again, you can do that right now by becoming a donor to the Monk Debates at triple W monk debates, Munk Debates with an S.com.