The Netmums Podcast - 1: Finding Strength: Mum of two Olivia Bowen on the support that saved her after pregnancy and birth trauma

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Welcome to this brand new mini-series of the Netmums Podcast: Cloud 9 is brought to you by Aldi Mamia. Hosted by Netmums Editorial Director Louise Burke, this series is designed for those quiet, early hours when you’re feeding or rocking your little one and feeling like you’re the only one awake. Join us as we delve into the highs, lows, and everything in between of new motherhood. Today we welcome Olivia Bowen, a very familiar face for Love Island fans and star of ITV series Parenthood, alongside husband Alex. Olivia shares her journey through motherhood, including the recent arrival of her second child, baby Siena. She opens up about her traumatic birth experience and discusses the emotional complexities of postpartum recovery, including baby loss, birth trauma, and postnatal depression. In this episode: - Olivia’s candid reflections on her birth experience and recovery - How she navigates the transition from one to two children - The impact of postpartum anxiety and depression on her journey - Strategies for managing the chaos of motherhood - Finding joy in the small moments with her children *Sensitive content warning – this episode features discussions on baby loss, birth trauma and postnatal depression. This episode is sponsored by Aldi Mamia, the award-winning baby range loved by parents. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content. Website: netmums.com / Instagram/TikTok/Facebook: @netmums  Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

Welcome to Cloud 9, a brand new podcast mini-series from NetMums, brought to you by Aldi Mamia. This is the podcast for those early hours, when you're feeding, rocking or just trying to make it through another long night, and it can feel like you're the only one awake. Cloud 9 is here to remind you that you're not alone. I'm Louise Burke, the editor-director of NetMums. On each special episode, we'll be talking to a well-known mum about the highs, lows and everything in between of new Murmys. because we all know that while parenting can be beautiful, it can also be really tough. And that's okay, it's normal. Today we're joined by someone many of you will know and love and someone who has lots of parenting

stories to share, Olivia Bowen. Olivia first won our hearts on Love Island and since then she's become one of the UK's most down-to-earth and relatable mums, most recently sharing her journey with husband Alex and their son Abel on their ITV-1 show, Olivia and Alex. parenthood. This summer, Olivia and Alex welcome their second child, a beautiful baby girl named Sienna. But Olivia's birth experience was anything but straightforward. She's joining us today to share her story, the fear, the recovery and also the joy that's come from it all. Before we get started, I should mention this chat comes with a content warning as we

discuss baby loss, birth trauma and postnatal depression, just in case these topics are challenging for you. Right, let's get started. Firstly, Olivia, congratulations on your little baby Sienna, who is coming up to three months now. Is that right? Yes, yeah, three months old now. Still very tiny. And where is she this morning? Did you say? She is with my husband, Alex. She's actually in the kitchen. You'll probably hear a cry at some point, but no, she's with him. She's really chill, actually. I don't know whether it's that second baby energy or I'm not sure she's just very very relaxed um which is lovely and how's able where's he

he's good he is at nursery today so um yeah the little terror is out you would definitely hear him you might hear seena you definitely hear him the coast is clear this morning it's all about sienna and you and you just said then that sort of second baby um syndrome so it's slightly different this time she feels more chilled or are you more chilled which one is it or both i you can't say really can you because i know we sort of all compare and you know if it's a chill baby or do they sleep or do they take a bottle but i just think it's it's just up to the baby i don't i think i have been different i've been very relaxed this time around with able i definitely had um postpartum anxiety and i suffered with postpartum depression as well so i really struggled after abel so

some part of me think that that correlates but also I just you just don't know but this time around year I've been really relaxed I don't track her naps I don't track her feeds I let her just get on with it um she kind of has had to just slot in because where able is go go go she's having to just tag along so I don't know whether that is now her personality because she's just had to fit in a bit more than able would have done yeah I'm sure it's still quite early days though as well isn't it she's still so tiny so do you like throw her into a sling when you're heading off for nursery collection and things like that is it you a sling person or you're i love a sling i have been wearing one pretty much every day since the day she was born oh sweet and that's you get the

closeness from that right as well yeah i love it like i think again with abel i was quite guilty of trying to force nap times in a pram and you know it is hard because these days like when a working mum you have to have your hands free and you have to be able to do things so I did have to put him down whereas this time I am being a bit more laid back with it because I'm working from home a bit more um so I get to cuddle her more but I'm really enjoying that because I do feel like I didn't get that with able so it feels like as well because she's our last baby I'm just trying to soak it all in that's lovely um you've been really open about all your pregnancy experiences and your birth experiences. And I think that's something that's not only brave, but also really lovely for other people, other moms and moms to be, because they really get to hear those stories and those experiences and not feel alone. But how, I mean, you look amazing today. How are you coping now with two little ones around the house? How are those nights because it looks like you've, you know, you look so well slept for a new mother, I have to say.

So, honestly, I can't lie to you. And I would hate to hear this when I had April. He didn't sleep. Like, I can, let me just say that first. He was, like, maximum two hours little moments a night. Oh, God. Yeah, he fed a lot. Like, he was such a hungry baby. So during the nights, he would be up every two hours to feed. last night, Siena slept through. Oh my God. I know. That's amazing at three months. I know.

Complete shock. But again, this is where it's like, is it circumstantial or is it just the baby? And I really do feel like sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. And there's no really like which way. I haven't tried to do that. I've just ended up lucky this time that she slept. And the thing is, we all know that babies have their seasons and they have regressions. and I think you just got to take it where you can,

but that is probably the reason I look a bit more aligned today. Fresh, you know, you look great. Yeah, so she literally did that half eight till five and then we're back to sleep till half six, which was crazy. I know. I feel very lucky. I always remember those moments when they slept through and you'd wake up and you'd be like, hang on, what time is it? And you'd have to look at the clock about five times to believe that they've actually slept through.

I did wake up at one, because our... boy Abel he still comes into our bed so he obviously I woke up then so he came in and went to toilet then got in our bed then was like cuddle me mummy then I went back to sleep then she woke up so it still is you know it's um still chaotic definitely with two like it's not um straightforward is it no no um how is it with abel and the new baby sienna now is he loving having this little baby sister around the house or is he a bit jealous or it's been quite up and down he is such a loving boy like he has been amazing with her in the fact that he's so interested in her and wants to cuddle and kiss her and touch her face all the time

constantly wants to be like this um and he's been really really switch but obviously the jealous there is some jealousy there and we've noticed like at the start the first two weeks he was really chill really into her loved her and then it kind of changed a little bit in that two month mark and he started just changing his behaviour a little bit he was I think fighting for attention a bit more a lot louder but he's not he's been golden really like you know you forget they're so little and we've had to deal with this huge change that has caused a load of emotions in us, let alone how he feels at three and a half, um, trying to deal with all that. Yeah, because he'd just turned three, hadn't he pretty much before Sienna came

along. And did you, um, was there anything, I remember like when we had, when we brought our, um, second baby, I had twins for the second babies home and then my daughter was two and a half, um, so similar to Abel. But, um, we gave her a gift from the new babies to sort of give her a bit a bit of attention, feel loved and not feel left out in those sort of early days, especially when you're bringing baby home for the first time. Yeah. So take us back to those early weeks when you brought Sienna home because you've spoken openly about the birth, which sounded so traumatic. I'm so sorry to hear that. And you went through, yeah, you went through a really tough time. How was it when you, just to recap, you, just for listeners that maybe aren't aware,

but you lost a lot of blood during your birth to see Anna, didn't you? You planned a home birth, but it happened in the hospital and it was, yeah, three litres of blood, which sounds horrific. Yeah, you poor thing. How was it coming home from hospital after the recovery and then also the emotions and the hormones bringing Sienna home to the family home. How was all that? I mean, like you said, it was a lot.

It was quite traumatic birth, but in no way what happened to me in hospital was related to a home birth because I'd hate to make anyone fearful if they were looking to go down that route. And actually, a lot of what I learned from preparing for a home birth with, I had two dolers,

really helped me, make decisions and keep myself safe. so yeah we made the decision to go into hospital because I'd had a bladder prolapse which meant that birth was just excruciating and nearly impossible to do so we went in and then I ended up having a C-section and again there are risks involved it's surgery of course there is yeah and yeah I ended up losing a lot of blood I had two blood transfusions I was feeling a little worse for wear as you can imagine and then having a new bruise born to look after you just think it's crazy like any other person that goes through surgery would be looked after taking home like waiting on hand and foot but you get given this little human that relies on you and you just think what yeah extra yeah um but she i still i feel like was in that bubble i think because of everything we went through losing one of the twins I think I just felt so And because of the blood loss

And how close I felt I think I just felt so lucky To be coming home And just felt so grateful To have her in my arms finally After everything So even though Yeah I looked like I've been dragged through a hedge

And felt like it too It was still so lovely And we I was in hospital for one night Two nights I probably should have stayed next to day. Oh, that's at all? Okay. But it was hard because obviously Abel was at home. Like, as you know, it's really difficult, isn't it, leaving one? So I just really wanted to go home. He came and visited me in hospital and he brought a little cakes that he made.

Oh, bless him. He was so sweet. He had just woken up from a nap, though. So when he came in, he was like really grumpy. So you know, like you imagine you get this beautiful moment when one child meets the nail. Come and see me. It was not like that. It was not that beautiful moment you see on Instagram. It was a bit more, yeah, not quite that. But he was just, I think, really overwhelmed. But he absolutely loved her and he was stroking her face.

And, yeah, when we brought her home, it's just when you're recovering from a C-section, it's just so difficult because you can't move. Going up and down stairs. It's six weeks, isn't it? Yeah. Six weeks, you've pretty much got your feet. Pretty much. I'd say that first week was so hard physically being able to do anything.

Like I couldn't even lift our pot of sugar to make a tea and going up and down the stairs. They were like, oh, you can only go up and down the stairs once a day. I was like, how is that even possible? Like, it seems like the things that they tell you to do, it's not physically possible when you've got a baby and then another toddler at home. So, yeah, it's a mean feet coming home. But again, like I said, it was just, I felt so grateful. Yeah, just to recap again, you mentioned the losing a twin just for people that maybe aren't aware of it.

You experienced vanishing twins syndrome, didn't you, early on in your second pregnancy with Sienna? Do you want to maybe just explain that? Yeah. So we found out quite early. I think I was not even four weeks pregnant. So then, like I said, I can be quite an anxious person. So I really wanted to go for a scan just to check it was even in there. Like, I just didn't believe that I was pregnant.

So, yeah, we went to check and we found out then that we were having twins. You could see quite clearly. I think we was five weeks, nearly six weeks, so very early still. And she said one of the, the stenographer said one of them was a little bit smaller, but not really anything to worry about because usually one is slightly smaller. So then, yeah, we came home thinking we were having twins. and obviously the biggest shock of our lives but it was amazing

and we started to get a head round it we were thinking about cars and what rooms they're going to have where are we going to put them what's it going to be like so we started like really visualising it and then we went back I think at eight weeks, nine weeks

and one of them didn't have a heartbeat anymore but I'd had no signs, symptoms and it's called vanishing twin syndrome because quite literally they just end up vanishing. You don't bleed, you don't like essentially miscarry visually so over the next i think it took until about 16 weeks for that baby to basically shrink and then reabsorb into my body so i had no incredible yeah it just boggles your mind and obviously at the time it was just horrendous and it was a really hard

yeah i can imagine but now i think having sienna here and feeling lucky that we have her. I can speak about it in quite a different way. And it's a weird feeling because you don't feel like you've lost a baby because they've reabsorbed into your body. It's a really hard thing to get your head around. I feel for anyone that loses the baby in any which way. So nothing makes it easier, you know. What are your coping tools in those situations? Like you said, during the time in those weeks when you realised that you were losing the twin, What were your ways to cope? Obviously, you had Alex around and obviously had Abel at home.

But how do you get through those moments? I'm quite an oversharer. You might go sell that. I did watch an ITV documentary last night. So I naturally do talk a lot and I share a lot. And that's probably one of the best things about me being who I am. I can very openly speak about things and it's helped me. I never used to be like that though.

It's not always been that way. And I think that's probably the one thing that did get us through. I know, you know, so many people that keep it to themselves, they're having a baby until 12 weeks because that's what we're told. Like, that's the safe mark. But essentially, I don't really agree with that personally because I need people around me, especially in those early days where things don't feel real and they don't feel secure. I need my friends and my family.

so I'd say the one thing that got me through it was all my family knowing and my friends knowing and checking in on me and being there for me and being able to talk about it and obviously having Alex going through the same thing. I just do feel like you just have to reach out. I don't know it seems so hard sometimes

to talk about things like that, but it really does help. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And you've got your mum as well around, haven't you? Yeah. He helps, he's really involved as well. We've got so much family. We're very, very lucky in that way that our family is so heavily involved. Yeah.

So you mentioned feeling so grateful to have Sienna now as part of the family. What are those sort of cloud line moments as mum with Sienna now? Are those little sort of, I don't know, those golden nugget moments? I mean, for me, I've just got the most ridiculous amount of photos of baby sleeping on my camera. They're so cute, a little troubiness. Any moments that you're sharing with Sienna where you feel, like, you mentioned before, feeling hugely grateful and appreciative to have her and have your family now? I think just that with those little smiles when they come, like you kind of wait those first

few weeks, you don't get anything back to you, they just lay there asleep. But when they start seeing you and the way that they look at you, like she, she just stares at you like in wonder, it's crazy and you just feel it, it's just something you can never. explain is it um but those little smiles and the she's she's already very chatty so i can already see her school report being that she talks too much no she's making all sorts of noise who did she take after and with i was remember like the spiky fingers as well how they sort of cut out of the little moses basket with a little spiky fingers um reaching for your face it's very very cute um so you are um you are you still breastfeeding now because you were

to start with when you yeah yeah she um she's yeah she's luckily just was fine she had a tongue tie in um hospital they mentioned but i never ended up having any issues and i don't know whether i kind of just soldiered on like the pain from the sea section was nothing you know nothing yeah your pain barrier your pain barrier must be like so high now so yeah so yeah And she put on weight, so she was fine. But I'm still exclusively for breastfeeding because she will not take a bottle. So if you have any advice for me. Oh, really?

Yeah, she's just, I don't. And again, I don't know whether it is slightly that she has still got tongue tie or she's just like, no, give me a good mom. Or I don't know. I did have that with one of mine. And not that I'm a pediatric expert, but what I did try and do was half a bottle with half breast milk and half formula. Oh, really? you can do. Yeah.

And then that helped take the bottle as well. I haven't tried that. Otherwise, I know people who go through like a gazillion different teats to try and like experiment. But then the flip side of that is that some people say it confuses the baby. I don't know. There's so many myths around, aren't there? That's actually a good question. How do you navigate all the sort of baby mess and parenting myths?

Because there, I mean, there is just so many. out there and rules and guidelines change quite a bit like with my first baby i never had her sleeping on her front but the second time round my baby's always slept on their front um is there anything that you sort of struggle with i think like you said it's just the copious amounts of information that you get and especially where i work on social media i'm obviously instagram a lot and i see a lot um i think my biggest tip would just to be obviously we're on social media a lot so curate your feed and try not to follow too much noise um i think there's some really great pages to follow like the lullaby trust which has all sleep information on so factual

instagram pages are great um i got so bogged down by sleep with able and that's because i started just searching the internet how do i make my baby sleep what do i do then i needed to get like someone to help me and it just never worked and I got so I think it was part of the reason I was so anxious and felt so down because I felt like I was failing because he wasn't sleeping. Well it stresses you out doesn't it? It's like what am I doing wrong? Why is this not happening? Exactly and I mean sleep deprivation is like it's horrendous so that that doesn't help when you're feeling so misguided but um I definitely think just trust your instincts and it sounds so simple but it's really hard to do when you have got that outside noise but I can tell you from experience the second

time round just listening to my baby and learning her rather than everyone else's it's been the biggest challenge so when you're so are you a bit of a I know you said you live a lot of your life on social obviously I know this but do you yourself scroll a lot through social um I don't necessarily scroll Instagram a lot I I'm just working working a lot on my phone. So a lot of the time it's like editing, videoing. So I'm on my phone a lot. Um, I don't particularly scroll Instagram as much as I used to. But again, that's something that I've had to really rain in for myself. I'm more shopping. Yeah. I'm more that problem. What, baby shopping or for yourself? Oh God, baby clothes. Obviously, yeah, for having,

having a boy the first time round, he had really cute clothes, but oh my God, I've absolutely loved shopping for her clothes already she's already got about six pairs of shoes she's got in a walk I'd love to see her wardrobe and then when it comes to yourself how are you finding time

to sort of relax yourself or finding time for yourself because I know obviously having two young kids life is crazy busy they're very dependent on you quite often kids want, those young kids want their mum a lot. And I know from watching Parenthood,

which is a brilliant, brilliant series, in so many ways from the laughter to the oh my gods and everything, all in between, because I know Alex loves his gym and he goes out there and he's off training and that's his thing. And I know sometimes that's not particularly cool with you and it's not great timing with the baby and the baby and I totally get that.

How do you get your time? Yeah, on parenthood, Alex was training for a body building competition, so it was all very structured, whereas that's over now, thank God. Right. And he's back to just doing like normal gym, which can be any time of day, and he can kind of eat way more food, so he's way happier. So that's definitely relieved some stress. It's difficult at the moment.

I can't lie to put myself first. I don't think I really have. We're still, you know, in the very early days. And because she won't take a bottle and she's breastfeeding, I can't really leave. So I can only leave for like a couple of hours at a time. We've worked. We've had to take her into London every time.

She's had to stay over in London with us. Alex has to come with me with her so I can work. So it's been quite difficult. So even the thought of trying to take an hour to myself is quite hard. But in saying that we have learned. how to do it like I'll feed her then I'll quickly run out and go to see the horses or go to see my friends but I'm like I'm on a clock so it is it is hard I do feel still very controlled by the newborn stage in a way yeah because um although you said it's a bit easier now with the second

baby because you've done it before there still is a routine isn't it involved in your days and the naps and even for abel I imagine is he's still doing an afternoon nap as well no he's he has that now um he he was napping until he was three so it's only recently really dropped um yeah he did have a really big nap the other day but then bedtime was just completely screwed up nightmare yeah so but he as long as he has like outdoor time and um really like a lot of physical activity he's good he just does need a lot of stimulation he is a full on full on fun kid yeah yeah i always i used to feel quite conflicted about the afternoon nap because it used to be set entrenched in the day and it was always like get out because you've got to get back for the nap but then when you lose the nap you're like yes this is

so liberating we can do anything with that day and then you're sort of like oh but then there's no downtime because they're always awake for the whole of the day that is so true every parent goes through that with that last nap like you do miss it a little bit but like you said I think I actually prefer it because you've got wake up time and then you've got the whole day. I hated trying to get him to sleep in the day. And then if he wouldn't sleep, we'd be like, oh God, the day's going to be a dinosaur for the rest of the day. It'd be absolutely crazy, like moaning and yeah. It's a hard one. I don't think you ever feel like you completely get it right. No. And then in terms of that your sort of postpartum recovery after Siena, you mentioned before as well on social about

hair loss, which is one of the main sort of symptoms after giving birth. How have you coped with those sort of changing, yeah, those different, whether it be hair loss or body shape or moods or sleep patterns. How has that felt for you? It's hard. I can't, I can't sit here and lie and say that I'm coping well with it because I'm not. I think the first time round, having another baby your body's already different and I already struggled with that from able but I think with one child I got back into the gym quicker I could go and do this and that and that and he took a bottle so I had the opportunity but with Sienna I've not really had that and having two kids it's now like how am I meant to fit in like wellness time for me and I don't think it's

actual like body image that I struggle with I think it's the fact that I'm not as fit and healthy and strong as I used to be and that is quite difficult to come to terms with when I went in the gym a couple of weeks ago and I literally couldn't even lift the bar I couldn't squat a bar and like before I was squat in so heavy like my own body weight and then when you drop that if that's something that's important to it's really hard to accept because you feel like oh god I've got to start all over again but I think it's just trying to give yourself grace and I keep reminding myself that this isn't forever it's a season and just trying yes it's three months since you gave birth and you went through your body's been through a lot with the two births um so you've got to got to go easy on

yourself yeah but um like you say it's not necessarily about the body image quite often it is i know what you mean about that feeling strong like i always feel better when i've just moved around not necessarily even in the gym but if i've gone out with the push chair and done a you know a good walk outside. It just makes you feel better. But yeah, it's finding those times when you can do that as well. And then how has it been in terms of, I know you're very good at talking openly about your experiences of early motherhood. Just then we were talking about body image and exercise and feeling strong and how important that is. But there are times. But there are times. as we all know where it all just feels too much and you don't feel strong and you have those moments

where it just yeah it's too overwhelming. Are you familiar with those moments? God yeah. I think I had no idea what one to two kids would be like but zero to one was really, really hard for me. I think because I was so used to having my own time and we lived a very wild life like we were out and you know different countries it was completely different so I really struggled with that change and I felt like I lost myself completely

but one to two I thought it would be easier and it has in a way but I feel so overwhelmed and overstimulated untouched out pretty much the whole day and the other day day I did feel to myself I was like I need to just go and sit in the bathroom and hide and I never had that before but it was one of the moments I was like I need to lock myself in the bathroom just for five minutes just to try and like calm down and I think where if Sienna's crying if you're on your own and the baby's crying and then maybe Abel's upset about something or anger about something and you've got two voices and then maybe Alex is trying to talk to me like the overstimulation is something I really struggle with and yeah all I can suggest. is just go and sit in the bathroom for five minutes.

Hide for five minutes. Yeah. Do you, in those moments, do you break down in tears? How does it come out with you? I think it's more like the irritated side of me comes out. And I can't lie. I've snapped at Able and I've had to apologise. I've really had to learn as a person and a mum to say sorry

when I do something wrong or I speak out of turn. And I think it's a really important thing. to learn as a parent that you can apologize to your child and you know it's not it's not embarrassing it's not bad but we all have lapses of judgment and especially when we are having those overwhelmed moments i can i can get really irritable and i think when it really comes ahead i do just have this huge cry and then it does feel better so there's no shame in getting upset or crying just got to make sure that someone's there to give you a big hug and sometimes i'm guilty of been like no i can do this i can do it all on my own like and i don't want to hug and then someone

hugs me and i'm like and then it all comes out yeah that's nice it's nice that you've got someone who'd who can give you that big hug as well yeah um and when if you were to take a step back and come face to face with olivia pre sienna what would you be saying to her oh god what's saying to the version of me that had not had her yet. I guess just like everything will work out and be okay and you'll get there. I think I was so anxious

because of losing one of the twins it really like impeded on my pregnancy and just worrying about her for the rest of the pregnancy. So I would love to just go back and say like just try and enjoy that a little bit more and relax a bit but you can't

can you? No. It's always hindsight. No. No. I do find as well, like, life can be so full of cliches as well, like that, you know, when people used to say, enjoy this moment, enjoy it because it won't last forever, or, oh, you're so, you know, you're so lucky, you're this, you're that. And you're just, when you're having a bad day with Wheatabix gloop, like stuck to your front and things like that and no sleep.

It's just like, what? How did this happen? 100%. Sometimes when someone says, I enjoy that moment, it won't last forever. And I'm like, well, thank God. Thank God it won't ask you for because I'm so tired. Yes, so tired. Moving on.

Yeah. And so I think every mum will relate to everything you're saying today. But also there's those moments that we see. So we've got the overwhelm and we've got the sort of cliches that add pressure on. But then there are those moments of pure joy that you've got these two little humans in your house and you created them, you made them, you're bringing them up. What are those mum wins, I call them, like during the day when you feel like you're winning? When do you feel like you have something to celebrate?

Do you know what? Yesterday, my mum was here and I've really struggled to take time for just me and ABLE, but where Sienna's going longer between feeds, I can have some time with him. And I think the one thing that makes me the most proud of one of my children is their emotional intelligence and their kindness. And I went on a walk with my mum and Abel and we were doing a race up the hill and I was really slow. My mum overtook me. Abel was at the front and he turned around. Who went, Mommy?

And he literally makes him want to cry. He put his hand out to me and went, oh, I'll grab you. And he pulled me so that I would win. And I was like, oh my God, literally makes me emotional because it. He is so kind-hearted and just to see the way that he loves me and the way that he cares how I feel. I just feel like, oh my God, we've done that. Like, I do a lot wrong and, you know, we struggle as parents at times and I'm sure we'll

continue to do things wrong. But when you see that kind of emotional intelligence and that kindness, I just think, oh, yeah, we're doing all right here. Yeah, and he'll be a brilliant big brother as well, I imagine. Yeah. It was so cute. was like, come on, mommy, and grandpa, I was like, we're winning.

I was like, oh, I got so fine. I thought it's so sweet. It sounds like doing a pretty job, because parenting is bloody hard. It's hard. I think that's one thing I, I know parenting was hard, but when I did it, I was like,

jeet, like, this is really, really difficult job to do, to get right, and to feel like you're getting right as well. In your parenthood documentary, you and Alex sometimes have, you know like we all do a little bit of like differences of opinion shall we say or there's a bit of the tidness Olympics that go on how do you navigate those in those very early days where both

of you are tired both you big quantity both of you want to like actually I just want to drink my coffee whilst it's still hot moments um how do you get through those because I know like you said pre-kids the two of you was such a, you know, such a two-sum, busy and enjoyed your parties and your holidays and had like so much fun together. How, and I know how important it is, Alex talks about it on the documentary a lot about keeping the two of you and that your connection alive. How do you manage that? Because it is really hard. Let's be honest. A lot of expectations. Like you're not going to be doing what you used to and I think at the start you're trying so hard to kind of keep up with it and reach those like oh we'll go out for dinner here but it's more about in a nice way lower

expectation so being able to take an hour together or go out for lunch with the baby or maybe have a date night but it has been changing that expectation of what we can do just at the start I think it's important and knowing again that it is a season I think think for me that really changes my mindset knowing that you know this is just for now it's not forever um when we had able we really struggled communication wise it just really broke down um and we just never saw eye to eye and i kind of shut off which was then another reason why i slipped back into depression had to go back to therapy i just really struggled to communicate i think i don't know what that was i think it was just trying to do it all and i think learning from that has made me realize

communication is absolutely everything and if you're angry you say why you're angry like don't try hide it and if if he's tired tell me you're tired or it's just made a big big difference being able to talk things out which sometimes you can't be bored to do because you're so knackard You're like, well, you should know that I'm tired. And you will have arguments, like I say, I was going to say, as well, sometimes you don't talk it out because it's like, I don't want another argument. I'm too exhausted.

I can't do this. Exactly. So, yeah, it's tight. It's lowering the expectations and not in a bad way and just like trying to communicate. It's just just like got to do your best. And remember that you're in it as a team. You're not against each other. You both chose this.

Yeah. I mean, this all sounds very well. It's all true, but it's just sometimes hard in the moment, I think. To put it into practice is like it's, yeah, it's all, like you said, well and good saying it now, but trying to do that when you are tired or they have annoyed you, you know, that you're going to spat, you're going to argue. You are, inevitable, it's inevitable, it's human. You mentioned therapy then and so you've, you clearly benefited from having therapy after Abel. Was there anything that you learned about yourself?

then or learn ways that you could manage yourself better during those therapy times that you're willing to share to others. Yeah, a lot of, like, my struggle, and I think just, I struggle quite a lot of social anxiety when I'm out publicly. I'm all right on Zoom, obviously. But when I'm in a, when I'm at social situations, I don't know people, I found that really difficult and that was like a stem of anxiety. And I brought that home with me, that energy, even if we're, you know,

you're not in that situation that energy will still come home with you so i just found ways to deal with that um she my therapist that i had she did a lot of CBT which cognitive behavioral therapy um and that really helped me and it was just ways of managing and and working out what emotions were why and um i think one of the main things for me was just being able to talk it out i think I wasn't in the position to talk to anyone but a therapist about what I thought and it's a very privileged place to be able to go to a therapist it's hard to get one on the NHS it's difficult there's long waiting list so I completely understand that I'm coming from a very privileged place to have been able to go but I think if you are able to it is very different speaking to someone who is a professional

and speaking to someone at home and there is a difference so never feel bad or embarrassed about seeking help that way because it is a different kind of help. You just talk differently to someone that you trust knows. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. I think what you're saying there as well about asking for help, we're not all good at asking for help and whether that's help with bath time and bedtime or whether that's help that's like you say that's more professional and a bit sort of outside of the family home that would benefit from you is quite it's quite hard sometimes even knowing what help you want right because I remember people a friend once saying to me like

you know you just got to ask for help and I'm like but I need so much like I don't know what I ask for help first and sometimes and sometimes it's like asking for help is like another thing to manage and I think this sometimes can happen in the home with your partner and if they're like what can I do to help what can I do and you just say like oh this is like the list scenario yeah write me a list yeah so I've got to write you a list and then manage you with that list and like I might as well have done it myself exactly yeah no it is it's really it is really hard to navigate but if you what would be your word of advice to a new mum who felt like they were struggling and needed to ask for help and like whether that be professional help or um or just

yeah or just some support really i think um i i always found it quite hard asking for help in person so i would text and that's a really silly like thing to give advice for but honestly like yeah i was embarrassed to ask for help so if i saw someone i'd be like no no no i'm fine but after just text them and ask for help because it's a lot easier. Yeah. But I do, I do think like there, it's hard. I could give any advice and I think it's someone who's quite proud, which is what I'm like, I like to do everything myself. It's hard. And until I think there's a straw that breaks the camel's back, you won't ask. So don't be ashamed if it takes you a long time to ask or don't be ashamed if you cry and break down. Like sometimes that's what you need to then change the way that you are and be able to ask for help. but there's no there's no shame in it we can't do everything no absolutely not and and do you feel like with the fact that you've got such a high profile especially on social media and tv do you feel like you said you were proud do you feel pressure to be sort of nailing it all the time the whole mum life

do you know what it's funny I don't because I physically can't so I think I'd be kidding myself if I like we would never have made the show if I wasn't comfortable being like you know what I am not perfect because it's very well shows that we're not and that's what we wanted because the amount of response we've got and messages we've received

about how people feel seen and feel understood like I can't tell you how happy that makes me and if I have to show that I'm not perfect to get that that's what I'll do It doesn't bother me But I can't say that I've always been like that I definitely in my 20s

I was trying to keep up its picture perfect image And maybe I just got sick of it And knew I couldn't do it So I think from having kids and being 30 I'm like, no, don't care I am a mess It's fine I think you've just got to let some balls drop

Right sometimes Like I mean I admire new moms Who step out looking absolutely gorgeous on a park walk with the baby in the buggy but I remember just almost living in a parallel universe in a way in the sense that I just had to keep this baby alive and that was yeah sort of my focus what you realize is like some things are really important to some and other things aren't so yeah yeah you might see your mum who's like super well dressed in the group

and then a kid might be in you know the same t-shirt and trousers he's worn the last four days that doesn't matter and then you might have someone that has a super well-dressed child but they've not brushed their hair like yeah i think it's just just do you like just do what you've got to do and try not worry about anyone else it's easier said than done because we're you know we we naturally compare ourselves but yeah that not everyone has everything going for them no completely nailed i just remember my trick when on my second babies um who were born more through the winter i could keep them in their pajamas because they would have their big suits on in their prams and no one no one knew I mean they had a clean happy and everything but no one knew that they were still

in their pajamas like till 12 o'clock because they were in their slow soup Ava went out the other day he had his pajamas on but put his football shirt and his football shorts over the top of it over the top going out in my pajamas I was like fine I'm not going to argue with a three and a half year old you're like we have left the house we are winning this is amazing oh Olivia it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you I love how honest you are about your experience with parenting. It's been lovely chatting to you. I think it's really good for other mums to hear that it's not all perfect

and we're not all winning every single day. And I love it actually in your parenthood where you're like, today's just not a good day. Today's just not a good day. Today's not a good day. When is the good day? But it's just nothing goes to plan. I think that's the other thing as well

when you start adding more kids into the mix you can never really work to a plan or stick to a plan for the day. I think you just learn to live in the chaos you just like learn to get on with it, don't you? Oh well, an absolute pleasure to speak to you. Thanks ever so much for your time. No, thank you, thank you.

And then speak to you again sometime maybe when Sienna's a little bit older. Get some update stories. I don't think I have my hair brushed like this. It'll be more chaos. I can't wait for Sienna to start discovering her wardrobe and all the different outfits. All the outfits. She'd be like, Mom, you're crazy.

That's brilliant. Thanks so much. Thank you. Olivia, thank you so much for being here and speaking so openly and honestly. Your story will mean so much to so many parents who've been through something similar. And it's such a reminder that even after the... darkest moments, there can still be light again. And to all our listeners, whether you're feeding, rocking or just sitting in the quiet, please remember, you're not alone. We're all in this

together. You can find key takeaways from Olivia's chat at netmums.com, along with expert advice and support links for anyone who's experienced a difficult birth. And don't forget, you can also claim your free pack of Aldi Mamia newborn nappies there too. Cloud 9 is brought to you by Aldi Mamia, the award-winning baby range loved by parents and proud to support yours. And please follow us on socials at Netmums.