The Netmums Podcast - 12: Navigating parenthood: Tips, tales, and toddler tantrums with Steph McGovern

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

This episode of The Netmums Podcast features broadcaster, journalist and debut novelist Steph McGovern. Join Wendy and Alison for a chat about motherhood, family life, and finding balance between career and parenting. Steph shares her insights on keeping her daughter’s life private, being a same-sex parent, and how her experience of broadcasting during lockdown helped shape her debut thriller Deadline. Key topics include: Parenting Privacy: Steph explains why she’s chosen not to share photos or details of her daughter publicly — and the importance of letting kids grow up without the scrutiny of fame. Same-Sex Parenting: Stories, funny anecdotes and Steph’s thoughts on how attitudes have shifted, including a moving moment of unexpected kindness from strangers. Parenting Style: Steph talks about good cop/bad cop dynamics, teaching independence, and balancing encouragement with the perils of ‘over-correcting’ Money Matters: As host of The Rest Is Money, Steph shares practical advice on budgeting, earning points, and how to teach kids about money — even in a tap-and-go world. Her Debut Novel, Deadline: Hear how Steph turned lockdown hours into a murder mystery, set in a money-printing factory and inspired by her days on BBC Breakfast. Magic Breakfast Campaign: Steph supports Magic Radio’s Fuel for Success campaign, providing schoolchildren with the food they need to start the day right. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums  Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show… A newspaper had found out I was pregnant because I had terrible pregnancy sickness, so I was working on BBC Breakfast and I literally was like chucking up behind the sofa. That famous red sofa's probably got a few stains down the back of it. And it splashes, don't it? Shush! But before all of that, this episode of the Netmums podcast is brought to you by Tesco. Well that makes me happy Wendy because there's nothing I love more than a solo trip to my

nearest big Tesco. You're not going to be the only happy one Alison because the Tesco baby and toddler event is back. Parents across the country are rejoicing. Tell us what we can expect. There will be money saving offers on a wide range of baby and toddler products from food and clothing to bathroom and hygiene essentials. You had me at money-saving. Yep. Customers will be able to get up to 50% off.

Some of my favourite bargains include the half-price Joe Romano co-sleeping crib, which is only £80, and money off a very snazzy Vtech Smart WiFi video monitor. Tesco really is a one-stop shop for all of your baby and toddler needs, isn't it? I'm loving the cute Safari design sleep suits at only £10 for a three-pack. They have so much! There's nappies, toiletries and the snugliest baby outfits. But hurry because the baby and toddler event is only on for limited time. To find out more head in store or online at Tesco.com

Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Netmums podcast. Wendy, how are you doing? How's your weekend been? It was good thank you. We went to a wedding. But what was a shock is it's the first wedding I've been to since my 30s when I didn't have kids. And it was all a bit interesting being at a wedding with children because you actually have to look after them and make sure they've been fed. And it was 30 degrees, so make sure they've got sun cream on. And I was like, oh, maybe this is why people get married in their 30s, so you don't have your kids at the wedding. Does it lift your foot a little bit for you, Endy? Well, yeah, just a little bit, but they did have a good time.

So I wonder if our guest has been to any weddings yet with the children in tow. Let's have your showbiz intro, Alison. Well, today we are joined by Steph McGovern, BAFTA nominated TV broadcaster, business journalist and co-presenter of the podcast The Rest Is Money. Steph's debut novel Deadline has just been published and it's been described as a pacey engaging thriller. Steph, a warm welcome to the Netmums podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. And do you know what? I was smiling the whole way through the intro

because I too was at a wedding at the weekend with my five-year-old. And that combination, Wendy, you described of the heat and the thinking about food and everything else was intense. And then also just the general, where is my child? Has anyone seen her for like the last 20 minutes? It's all peaceful. Weddings are usually quite enclosed, aren't they? So I'm sure she was fine.

Well, this wedding had sweetie jars, like she'd put sweetie jars and at one point about 20 past 10, I sprung a load of five to nine year olds under a table, under like the tablecloths stuffing sweets in their mouth because they'd all been told by their parents, it's 10 p.m., you can't have any more sweets. So it all went quite debauched for the kids, let alone the adults. They would love that though if you did that. There's nothing better when you're a kid than a den

with something you're not meant to have in it. Sweets this ideal. So other than hot at weddings, what's mum life looking like for you right now? The end of term is looming. Is it a stagger towards the finish line like the rest of us? Do you know, it's, I mean, it is and it isn't in the sense of we're all doing that juggle, aren't we, with work and childcare and everything else and that I feel like I'm always kind of staggering through. I don't feel like I'm ever like full energy, you know, pacing through Gazelle like I'm literally

like a sloth the whole time, like crawling through to the end of everything. But I mean, like having a five year old, she's now at that point where she's really fun. And actually, you know, she gets herself ready for school and she likes that. Like she's now enjoying that independence. No, I can do it, mama, I can do it. And so I'm enjoying, I love walking her to school. I'm really lucky because I live near the sea.

And so we walk along the seafront to school, which is, you know, totally brassic near the sea. And so we walk along the sea front to school, which is, you know, totally brassic in the winter. But at this point of the year, it's just lovely. And so I'm really, I don't know whether it's over tiredness, which has led to delusion. And I think like, this is all great. And actually, I'm, I don't know, feeling other things, but yeah, no, it's, it's, I'm really enjoying this bit. And don't get me wrong, the WhatsApp group now with everyone is like, what are we all gonna do over the summer?

But yeah, no, it's lovely these last few weeks. And she's just finishing reception, so it feels like, wow, you've done a year already, that's mad. Well, as this is going out in early July, I just feel like we should, Alison, do a little public service announcement for all of the parents listening

to not wait till the last week of term to do the teacher gift, which is what I do. Every single year. So everyone listening who's got children at school, just remember to buy them a box of chocolates in your next ASDA shop, rather than doing it at the end of the day, on the last day before term, like I do, every single year.

Good work, Wendy, good work. You've got everyone's interest at heart there. I like it. Now, Steph, you are impressively private about your family life. What made you decide to not share any photos or details of your daughter from day one? I think it's because she's not chosen this life and also with the profile and you know my profiles meant I've had a great career and done lots of brilliant things but with it comes a lot of scrutiny and I don't want her to be scrutinized by people who don't know her yet. She'll have enough of that with just you know, school and everything else.

So for me, I made, and I'm really glad I did it, I made a really conscious effort when I first started in telly to not talk about my relationships. And that is just carried on from that because that served me really well because, you know, my partner doesn't have to ever worry about what people might write about her, and that's kind of carried on

with our child, they can live without having to worry about that. I mean, it's tricky at times because my family would love to post pictures on their social media, but we've had to have a really hard line about it and go, you can't, because as soon as that and that opens the you know the floodgates and then then per picture can be published and blah blah blah so that's a bit tricky that you know particularly grandparents can't post pictures

because they've got other grandkids and so they're a bit like well we post the others it looks like we don't love her. And you're like, no, it doesn't. I think people understand because of my job. But yeah, but on the whole, I'm glad. Although it's been funny because recently she's just worked out that what I do is a job. And so she said to me the other day, she was like, are you famous? And I was like, well, to some people. And so she said,

cause someone at school told me you were famous. And she said, what does it mean? And I said, well, it means some people who know me, I don't know them, but they know me. And she went, right, but you know me and I know you. So you're not famous to me. I said, correct. That's the way we worked it out.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. And so that's been, so then when people have stopped us in the street famous to me, I said correct. That's the way we worked it out. Oh, I love it. Yeah. And so that's been, so then when people have stopped us in the street and she's much more aware of it now, we'll walk away and she'll go, do you know them? And I'll go, no, I don't know them. And she'll go, right, so you're famous to them. And I'll be like, kind of, yeah. That's cute. I love the way her little brain has assimilated that and decided that this is what being famous means.

Yeah, yeah. So we saw a gorgeous note you shared on Instagram recently that your daughter calls you and your partner mummy and mama. What kind of roles have you two carved out? Is one of you good cop, one of you bad cop? Do you know, I think we just, we don't have like defined roles. Like sometimes one of us might tell her off and the other one is the one who goes, oh, don't worry or whatever. So it doesn't have like a, I'm tougher than my partner or anything. I think we're fairly similar. So, you know, and I think sometimes we'll pull each other up and go, ah, you were a bit tough on her there.

Like I am a real stickler for manners. So I'm obsessed that she has to have good manners. So no matter what, I'm like, thank you, please. And the other day I said to her a couple of times that day, because at the wedding, actually, every time someone said to something to her, like, that's a nice dress you've got. And I'd be like, say thank you. And she was getting quieter and quieter at saying it.

It was like, thanks. And I went, you need to say thank you. And she's like, I've said it! Will you stop telling me off all the time? I've said thank you. They couldn't hear you though. And my partner was a bit like, I think you are being a bit harsh.

She is saying it. And you're like, all right, all right. So but yeah, I don't think we don't like really have, I think we're both quite similar, which is good. That's good. Now you spoke in the past about how being your true authentic self is important to you, whether that's embracing your accent or your identity. How do you think that feeds into how you and your partner parent your daughter?

Well, I think it's just letting her do what she wants, but obviously within the boundaries of general behaviour and things. But I did dancing growing up and I loved it. And so we've been trying out different things with her to see what she kind of likes and what she doesn't. And I think for Rosette, there's no, like we're not forcing her to do anything. And so it's like, you know, we were doing gymnastics for a bit and then realized she actually didn't really enjoy it.

And so we were like, right, well, we'll just won't do that anymore. We can try something else. So I think it's just about, like, not, but I think it took me a while to realize I could just be myself and still do well in life. And there'll be times when she'll probably feel like she might have to be a bit different

in order to fit in. And I think that's only natural to go through that. But I think it's just, without like overtly saying, oh, you know, be yourself, be yourself, I think it's just without like overtly saying oh you know be yourself be yourself I think it's just making creating an atmosphere in which she feels like she can do the things she she wants to do like an example the other day was one of her little friends was who she loves they're really good friends one of her little friends was saying oh come on I want to play this game and my little girls are's a kind of a pleaser.

And she was like, okay then. And I said, you didn't want to play that game, did you? And she went, no, but it's okay. Cause she wanted to play. And I went, it's okay to say no though, if you don't want to play it. Or you can say, let's play your game this time. And then can we play mine?

And she was like, okay, but that might make her sad. I was like, no, but then she'll have to deal with that. So I don't know. I mean, don't get me wrong. There's stuff I'm sure I'm getting wrong with her. Like, and you know, I get one of the things that I really felt about a year ago was I, cause of my job was like, I don't want her to be a show off.

So I've been like, right, don't show off about things. But I think I've gone too extreme. And actually she then was like really staying at the back of every time they did an activity. She'd go to the back of the line and wait. And then I thought, oh God, that's me. Like, you know, forcing on the don't be a show off. And now it's gone too far the other way.

And so I think, you know, we're learning every day still about, well, we all are, aren't we? You guys have been the same. You just, you get through a week and you think, oh, brilliant, we've nailed that. But then the next week there's a new challenge and like, right, how are we going to do this? Oh, yes. I saw an article actually on Netmams last week saying, parents of girls are more stressed than parents of boys. As the parents of six girls between the two of us, I suspect Alison and I might agree. Can you relate? Yeah, I have this. Totally. I have this with one of my friends who's the mum of a boy. And we were saying we hate those gender stereotypes of

kids, but they do. I think innately do things which are feminine and masculine. Like the boys do run around and like batter each other essentially. And the girls are a lot more sensitive. And her and I, me and my mate, we're talking about this saying, your son's wild now, but I just know we're gonna have loads of drama

with the girls, cause I can already feel it. Just like, girls are proper mean aren't they and you just think oh I know in the future my mate's gonna be laughing while I have to deal with the fallout of you know whatever teenage drama's going on and also hormones like you know I think we're pretty hard on teenage girls actually, because it's really extreme going through all that hormonal change and everything else going on with your body. And we still expect them to behave the same as they did before the hormones. And I think I'm appreciating that from a like perimenopausal. I think I'm entering that stage. And I'm like, you know, my moods are mad and my general

like, you know, one minute I'm crying and the next minute I'm hysterically laughing. And you're like, but I'm expecting people to acknowledge that about me. Why we should make sure our teenage girls have, you know, being not support, it's the wrong word, but just not expected to behave in exactly the same way but um yeah I don't know it is a minefield with girls but but I do love girls more hence why I'm gay actually but you know it makes sense it makes sense and actually that leads me on to my next question which is that we're recording this at the very end of Pride month. I'm really curious to know whether that's something that you celebrate at home.

Do you go on any family marches? Do you chat about it with your daughter? Do you know we don't, we don't, not because we're not proud, but it's just normal life. It's not, you know, we've talked about what it's going to be like when she, if anyone bullies her about having two mums or whatever and not having a dad and things, but so far, she, there hasn't really, it hasn't come up, it's not, we kind of just live our normal life and that's the way we're proud, I think. We don't try and make a point of difference about it, we just say, well we don't say anything. There's been times where, it was actually funny, I was on a school trip the other day and one of the dads was chatting to me and I'd said something about

my daughter and said, oh her other mum, and he went, oh she got two mums. And I was thinking, alright love, there's no need to go on and big thing. But. And I was thinking, all right, love, there's no need to go on and big thing. But then what I realised was, because he then followed it up with, that will explain why my daughter came home the other day and asked if she could swap me for another mum. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

And I was like, because he was like, I couldn't understand where she'd got it from. And so then I just laughed and thought, yeah. And then a couple of the other parents were like, oh, yeah, we've all had that. We've all had the can we swap dad for another mom. Those poor dads. I know, I know. Because I know what I just laughed.

And, you know, I think we are lucky. We've got plenty of like men in our lives to, you know, fulfill that. Well, she's got twodads and stuff like that. So she doesn't, I think she understands that not everyone has, she definitely understands that not everyone has two moms or two dads, but she also knows that people have only got one mom and people haven't got grandparents and some people do.

So it's kind of fairly normal to them all at this age. They don't really see it as a point of difference. Do you think the landscape and attitudes have changed for same-sex parents even since you had your daughter? Yeah, yeah. Because we were really scared actually when, not scared, maybe the wrong word, but anxious when it came out that I was pregnant

because I'd obviously kept everything private up to that point that I was pregnant because I'd obviously kept everything private up to that point that I was even in a relationship and then a newspaper had found out I was pregnant because I had terrible pregnancy sickness so I was working on BBC Breakfast and I literally was like chucking up behind the sofa that famous red sofa's probably got a few stains down the back. Remember, splashes, dimensions. So, then obviously they realised it wasn't me hungover every day and there must be more to it. And so it was going to be published in the papers. And I remember thinking, I didn't want to hide like that it was, you know, two women having a child.

Cause I've never not, I've never been in, you know, like when people say, what was it like coming out? I don't feel like I've ever been in as it were, but I just don't talk about things, my relationships publicly, but obviously it was going to come out as part of this. And I remember I said to my partner, I was like, this is probably going to get quite a few headlines.

So maybe we should just take ourselves off for the weekend. And we went to Wensleydale. There's this lovely hotel there that we love. I know it instantly makes you think of Wallace and Gromit. And so, cheese, more cheese. And there's this great hotel there. So we went there and I remember we were going down for breakfast and it was in the papers and we sat

down and there was this elderly couple sat across breakfast from us and one of them was reading the newspaper and they just looked over and realized it was us and they just said congratulations to both of you. Oh and I like even now that's like, I've literally got goosebumps every time. And it was that, you know, because they were a lot older than us. And you can often think the generations above don't get it. And they just in that moment, just they chilled us out and made us feel accepted. And that it was everything was going to like it was, I'm getting emotional talking about it, but it was like everything's going to be all right. And so then, yeah, it was

and that was such a moment. And I don't think I mean, I couldn't tell you what that couple looked like now and they probably have forgotten they ever said it to us. But that was a real moment of just actually this world is it's going to be all right. It's more accepting than we think. That's so lovely. Now I love how you've talked before about splitting childcare and home life fairly equally with your partner. How does that work in practice, especially with you having kind of such a busy job? And have you got any top tips for someone listening who might be feeling like things aren't quite so balanced in their home life? I think the key thing is you don't worry if it's not balanced.

Like even if... So for us, like we've both got big jobs and we have to travel for work and things. I mean, I don't know how anyone does it without grandparents for a start. Like we're really lucky that we have, you know, my mum and dad are quite close by. That was the part of the reason we moved back to the North East. So I don't know how anyone does it without it, without them. had a quite close by. That was the part of the reason we moved back to the Northeast. So I don't know how anyone does it without it without them. And we are like spreadsheet a spreadsheet family. We are one of those families, you know, who were not quite at

the Google share calendar, like my mates around the corner, who's, you know, one of them is a policeman and one's a teacher and they have to work everything out on like a color-coded, that blows my mind every time they talk about their calendar. But no, we basically just email each other once a week and go, right, I'm going to be here, where do you need to be? And then we'll work out where the gaps are and either ask, you know, parents or maybe call in a favor from a, you know, one of the other parents in the school and we all do that. I do definitely believe in that it's a community, like a village that brings up a kid.

It never really meant anything to me before. I was like, yeah, it's one of those things you get on a boat that you put up in your house and next to it's wine o'clock somewhere, that kind of thing. But then I realised, no, that's true and I don't think you should worry if you're not like because I'm away quite a bit and it's like sometimes when I feel guilty about it

I'm then reminded actually you know my daughter understands what's going on she really understands the concept of work gets us holidays and she likes going on holidays so therefore therefore, you know, she said to me the other day Can you go to work again next week? So I'd really like to go on holiday Yeah, I'm glad you understand but I just and there's times when it absolutely goes to in a mess and you're like Ah, we got it wrong and we haven't got this and we have to call on an auntie or whoever to help us And I think it's really hard if you don't have that, if you don't have, you know, I know there's lots of people who don't

and I really feel for them because that's tricky. But yeah, it's just, it's fine to make mistakes as well. You know, like I love the series Motherland and I just think, you know, there's times where we're nearly, you know someone, every character in it, you know them. And I am that person who's bought cakes and is secretly taking off all the wrappers

and putting them in a box and going, there you go darling, there's the cakes for the whatever. I can't even take the wrapper off, I just hand the short-buck cake to the bake sale and it's like, here you go, sell them. I know, and I just think, and also there's like, having a really good group chat with the parents and actually in it, like this morning, cause the weather's like this, I mean a really good group chat with the parents and actually in it like this morning,

because the weather is so hot, all the kids are allowed to be in the PE kit for the week. And obviously half of us have forgotten. And in the WhatsApp this morning at 7am, it was like, PE kit alert everyone. And we're like, oh, God, Lizzie, thank you for reminding us. And then don't forget sports day on the day. Thank you. We'd forgotten. And so, yeah, I think it's just.... Oh the good and bad of the parent WhatsApp group.

All the good stuff, there's some bad. I know, well I keep out of them all. I try and keep out of them because like you were mentioning about the present for the teacher and I was at swimming yesterday with my little girl and a couple of the other parents and my partner and my partner and this other woman who's a mum were chatting about the teacher present thing and I went what am I missing here what you want about them I just keep out of it Steph don't get involved this is too much and I was like great thanks. As long as one of you is on top of it that's all you need. Yeah. This is just a quick reminder that this episode of the Netmams

podcast is brought to you by Tesco's baby and toddler event. Head in store to see all of the Netmums podcast is brought to you by Tesco's Baby and Toddler event. Head in store to see all of the brilliant money saving offers or visit tesco.com. So taking you back a bit to the baby days, you've talked about how you suffered from night terrors thinking that you'd lost or dropped your daughter and I used to do similar things like wake up in the middle of the night thinking oh my god those early new mum days is there anything you'd have done differently now to look after your mental well-being? Well it was also lockdown so I don't think... So your mental well-being was in pieces anyway right? I genuinely don't think I could have done it differently because we couldn't do anything, you know, like, it's not like you could go out and see friends or whatever. It was, you know, I don't remember that time

when it was illegal to sit on a park bench. So yeah, I mean, I, the night terrors are a thing I've always had and I kind of have just got used to them. I mean, my daughter's getting them now, which is annoying because they are, you know, they're quite frightening to see. My dad gets them. So, you know, I wonder if there's some type of genetics or whatever. Yeah.

But but no, I just and I just think hindsight, yeah, great. But no, would I have done anything differently? Probably not. And I'm not someone who looks back and thinks, how could I have done things differently? Unless I've got something coming up that is going to be a repetition of it, then I just don't, I just forget once I've done it. I can barely remember the baby days, to be honest. I can, you know, a friend who's just had a baby recently

was asking me something about what age they start doing something, and I'm like, I don't know. I can't remember that far back. When did they start eating solid food? I don't know. I can't remember any of it. I just forget it once. It does feel like it's a thing though because as a parent there's always a new stage. I do feel like that when you're taking on the information, any information you don't need just drops out. It has to. Absolutely. It has to.

But don't you do that in, I do that in my work as well. I've been filming something recently and then, and you know I'd had all the scripts in my head and everything and then two days later we had to re-film something and they were like, oh can you do that script again? I was like, I totally, that's gone now it's gone I went two days ago but I think we're all doing that you're just constantly making room in your head aren't you for the other bits you need to know. It's also busy now bearing in mind you have just said that you've forgotten everything my next question was what what was the best advice that you got in the baby days can you can you just go back into the depths of your memory and think about what the one bit of advice

that you were like, that was amazing. And I wanna pass it on to either that new mum friend that you mentioned just now or the listener. Yeah. I think it's always have like a muslin cloth or some type of thing with you. Like that can, cause you'll just get covered in muck and stuff all the time.

And like, you know, some type of maybe not wipes, but just something there always to clear up mess, which inevitably follows you around. Yeah. So that, but also just the, don't listen to everyone. Everyone's got an opinion on when they should, you know, when they should be talking and when they should not have a dummy

and when they should be potty trained. And again, I, like we, we didn't do NCT when they should be talking and when they should not have a dummy and when they should be potty trained. And again, I like we didn't do NCT or anything like that when we had our little girl, because I just was like, I don't want to hear everyone else's stories. I just want to do it myself. Like, given the fact that we've all been having babies for however long, you know, since the beginning of time. I was like, everyone's been all right. So on the whole, you know, obviously not everyone, but like on the whole.

And I just thought- The population has continued, therefore we can't all be getting it that long. Yes, so I didn't massively take advice and things from people I just- That's really good though, because I did the opposite. I took everybody's advice and then

sat in a little ball going, I don't know what to do because I didn't know what to believe. So I think that's really good to just go, no, I'm going to do this my way. Yeah. And everyone's experiences are totally different. So, and I think sometimes we can feel bad if we think our experience has, like particularly the births, everyone's birth stories are so wildly different that you can make people can feel bad if it isn't that people are like, oh, I didn't get the one I wanted. So that's kind of why I went into it with no expectations. I was just like, let's just go for it and see what happens. Which is my whole career to date. It really is.

It's like everything I've ever done is just, let's just have a go and then if it doesn't go well, well, there we are. So you're a business journalist by trade and you present the Rest Is Money podcast. So let's just talk a little bit about money. Netmums recently reported that raising a child in the UK until the age of 18 is estimated to cost 260 grand if you're a couple to 90 grand if you're a single parent.

So you know your way around money and numbers, but for many, me included, it's just mind-boggling. Have you got any advice for families out there trying to budget and kind of struggling with all of it? Yeah, it is. I mean, kids are so expensive and lots of people, lots of activities and things they play on the fact that they can kind of charge what they like for stuff. So yeah, it is really tough. I think the things for me, and I think this goes for anyone, you don't have to be a parent, but just if you can follow your money as much as you can, i.e. just really keep on top of what's coming in and going out and don't do that thing of putting your head in the sand, because that's where you'll see

where you are potentially wasting money, wasting feels like too strong of a word, but like could economize better. So, and there are loads of apps to help you do that now. So that every time you buy something and get a receipt, take a photo of the receipt, and there's lots of different apps which will then put it into, you know,

a little pie chart or however you want it visualized. So you can see and you might think, oh, you know, I've been spending, I only get one coffee a day or whatever. And you might suddenly go, oh my God, my coffee's a 50 quid a month. Right, maybe I'll cut back on one or the other.

And I'm not, I don't want to be a fun sponge who's telling everyone to cut back, but you might, you know, there's a lot of technology and apps out there that can really help you there's also like things that can see when your subscriptions are auto renewing and it'll stop them auto renewing and just your time poor when you've got kids as well so I think it's just anything that can do those menial tasks for you to to try and save your money And also when you are spending money, I'm a big believer of make your money pay

in the sense of don't just buy stuff without collecting points and things. So if you, I buy everything on a credit card and make sure I pay off the credit card every month and get points on it. So I've got one that gets air miles and then that really helps because I obviously have to travel quite a bit.

But you know, it doesn't have to be that. It can be like the Avios or whatever it is. There's lots of ways. As long as, and like I say with credit cards, they're dangerous in the sense you can rack up loads of debt. You need to be paying it off so you're not paying interest.

But for me, it's like, don't just give your money away for nothing. Try and earn stuff back on your money and that type of thing can soon add up and save you, you know, give you things without having to fork out loads of dough. Our bank account gives us points and my husband converts them into Greg's vouchers. So it's amazing we can take the kids down for like sausage rolls and a fruit shoot or whatever and it's like a free little Saturday afternoon treat. So not the same as week. It means we can take the kids down for like sausage rolls and a fruit shoot or whatever

and it's like a free little Saturday afternoon treat. So not the same as flights, but you know, it's just for us. No, but whatever works for you. Yeah, I love that. Sausage rolls. I spend a lot of money on sausage rolls actually. Now, do you think that kids should be taught more about managing finances at school. So things like saving and investing and actually, you know, how the world of money works. Oh, without a shadow of a doubt, I think it's an absolute shocking state of the nation that we do not teach kids money from nursery. Like kids, no matter what you do in your life, money is part of

it. And the fact it isn't taught from, you know, there's a kind of vulgarity that's viewed about money. Oh, no, let the kids just play and be creative. No, they need to understand money to understand their parents and the pressures on their parents. They need to understand money for their own financial and mental well-being for when they're older. So this is my big beef, because I work with a charity that teaches money in schools and right from nursery, you know, they teach what the coins are.

It's a bit trickier now because everything's kind of like, you know, on your Apple Pay or whatever. I think that makes it harder to teach kids money. Yes, it does. Because when you've got one pound 75 in coins and that's what you can go and spend in the shop, it's a really physical thing. You can see your money and you can see that the lolly is £1.80 so you don't have enough. But when it's just tap, tap, tap, how are they ever

expected to understand what something costs when it's just all virtual? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I totally hear you. It is a lot harder, but their minds, they are in the generation now where everything is digital to them anyway. So like they understand the concept of like gamification and you know, if they're playing a game, they understand the concept of points and then those points can be used in the online shops or whatever. So I think it's us that need to work out. So it's just, I'm an old bag. Fine. I'm with you. That's fine. That's fine. I wouldn't be that fine. But there's lots of accounts now that allow you to, you know, there's one like Go Henry where they give you, you can have your own personalized with

your photo on a little card and like a debit card and things. You can get that from quite a young age and then you can, you know, you can see there's a good user interface on the apps with them all. Cause that's where the kids are now. Like they can see, they totally, we all know they totally can see, use iPads and everything else better than us. So, and I just think it's not shying away

from them seeing that like and saying to them, yeah, that Lolly is 175 and let's have a look in your account oh you've got five pounds there and then just do a bit of math to them as well right what's that five pounds take away one pound 75 I do this is my daughter all the time well even if she asked me the time for something you know what time are we doing this I'll say well the time you know she'll say how long is it until something and I'll say well the time now is this time and then the time we're

doing it is this time so work it out and so then you know I'm sure she hates me for it but I just think I think we shy away from it but that's not our fault either I think it's been ingrained in people's heads that maths is hard and maths isn't fun and therefore loads of people will say I'm not very good at maths and I bet they are. I bet they do things in their life which means they're good at maths whether it's I don't know playing bingo or like doing other things and then doing baking where you have to understand ingredients and measurements and so there'll be loads of it's just in education it's never. It's always just some like esoteric,

oh, let's work out the angle of a triangle using, you know, trigonometry or whatever. And you're like, wait, no, man, let's do compound interest on credit cards. Or let's talk about what is cancel tax and where does it go? And I'm not taking away from the pure mathematicians of the world, absolutely go and fill your boots with it.

But all kids should be able to come out of school just knowing what these things are because that's what gets them in trouble is not understanding it and then being like, just, I can't, no, I just do, I wasn't very good at maths at school and it's not the same thing. That's my rand sos.

So we've mentioned your first novel, Deadline, comes out very soon. How did you find the time to write a book on top of TV, podcast, family, life, having the occasional wee, all the things that you might want to do. How do you fit it all in? Well, so this is funny, right? Because the reason I wrote it is because I, in lockdown, when everyone, you know, obviously I had my little girl then, but obviously when they're in newborn, there's also mad bits of time where you're kind of, you know, you can't quite sleep and you're all over the shop. And then it was lockdown. And while And while I hate cooking, I'm not a baker, I'm not a cook, blah, blah, blah. And while everyone was kind of making banana loaves

and stuff, I was just murdering people fictionally. And that was the way I kept saying, like I was just like, I'm really enjoying writing and I'm just gonna go and do like an hour of it just to go into this world of these characters I created. And actually I really loved it. I found it was just like a safe space despite the murders. And yeah, but it did take me five years

because of the fact that I was doing a million other things. So it's not like I was, you know, I was doing it also in the car on the way to events and stuff like that. By the end I was like, oh, I'm finished the last chapter and so, but it was fun. It was, and I think so it was, and I really purposefully decided that it wouldn't be a job. It would be a something that I love doing, not a job. And never ever it felt like a job and felt too pressured, then I pulled back from it.

So my editor, Fran, was really, so they're the person who kind of steers the book as you're writing it. They'll say like, oh, give us a bit more of that character, or you actually need to let your dog have a wee. You've had a dog in the car for four hours, Steph, and they've not had a wee yet. Oh yeah, good point, Fran.

But she was really patient with me. I hadn't even signed a deal with her at this point. She was like, just take your time, because I kept saying I don't want it to feel like a job, where I'm like, oh. So I fitted it in just around life, but it was my hobby, I guess, in a way, which I'm very privileged that it could be.

I love the concept of it. The TV presents her mum in a huge crisis, live on air kidnapping. Where did the inspiration come from? I'm guessing it's never happened to you. Well it just came from being on broadcast all the time and wondering what would happen if it got hijacked. So I used to spend my life on BBC Breakfast in these really random locations all over the country.

So you know, I'd be in a field one day and then I'd be in a construction site the next and I'd be in a factory the next day and in when you're on telly doing a show like that and you're on air for three or four hours there are times when you're not obviously on air because they're doing other stuff and you're just sat in a field or sat in a construction site and I just used to say to my team all the time what would what would we do if this got hijacked and everyone I worked with had different opinions on it some were like oh I'd run away Steph because I'd be too scared and others were like I'd be there and so I just

was collecting these thoughts and I've always been a massive crime fiction fan so I was collecting all these thoughts and then I just started like writing them down and I didn't ever think I was going to write a book but then I really love a locked room mystery as well so I was thinking what if it's the earpiece that gets hijacked not just someone grabbing around the neck and saying do this, what if it's in her earpiece because it always fascinates people when you do telly how you talk at the same time as having someone talk in your ear. Yeah, I didn't know how you do that. Yeah, exactly. And everyone says that.

So I thought, oh, and then I liked the idea of it being in a place which is really, really secure. So where this hijack happens is in a money printing factory and I've been to one and they are unbelievably secure. And so I liked this idea of it gets, she gets hijacked while she's actually in this really secure location interviewing one of the most powerful people in the country. And then you know, it's all about the the war. I didn't know why actually for ages. It wasn't until I was

halfway through writing it that I'd worked out why the hijack happened. I kept changing my mind and it was actually the characters that gave me the reason of why the hijacked happened. I kept changing my mind and it was actually the characters that gave me the reason of why the hijacked happened. And I remember I'm good friends with Anne Cleves who created Vera and she said to me, she didn't purposefully create Vera. She said she just walked, she needed someone to come into the church and say something. And she said, it was Vera who burst in and said something. And then she was like, Oh, actually I really like this character and I'm going to keep going with her. So it was that, it was like I just kind of decided and there's a lot of autobiography in there as well you know there's a lot of

like the lead character roles is very similar to me in terms of background and everything else and that you know things like being mistaken for as a prostitute at Grimsby Fish Market did happen and things like being stalked, I've had that. And so there's a lot of things in my life and also just some of the injustices I've seen in my time, which I could write fictionally without the worry of, you know, being sued or whatever else. So I've seen that we've got our last question here, which I need to ask you. But what I really want to ask you is about being mistaken for a prostitute in a fish market. But instead,

I'm going to ask you about Magic Radio's Fuel for Success campaign, which you're involved in. And it's about giving kids a good breakfast, isn't it? Yeah. So Magic Breakfast is this brilliant charity, which basically provides schools, particularly in high areas of deprivation, with breakfast, free breakfast. And it sounds really simple, but there are a lot of kids who really struggle through school because they're not getting fed on the morning.

And so this is a charity which was set up to help feed them. And they're always looking for new schools to work with and it's dead simple. It's they've given breakfast for an hour before the school starts and you can see a massive difference in terms of how those kids then perform during the day because then they're not hungry. We talk, coming back to my rant earlier about education, the structure of our society in terms of education means you are very much judged on whether you do well in exams.

And there's a lot of kids who don't have the structure in their lives to do well in exams. It doesn't mean they're not smart. It just means that they haven't got what they need to be able to do exams well. So that's very, very passionate about it because they do that, they work with schools to help at least set the kids up for the day with food on a morning.

Sounds amazing. Well, Steph, thank you so much for joining us on the Netmoms podcast today. It's been wonderful to chat to you. Thank you very much. I've loved it. It's great to have a chat. And also it feels like therapy, doesn't it, when go through all your your foibles as a parent and everything else. Oh thank you, Steph. Don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, just type in netmums and you'll find us. And if you liked what you've heard today, we'd love for you to give us a five star rating. Press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials.