The Netmums Podcast - 5: The life of a girl mum: Ferne McCann on riding the big emotions of motherhood

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

In this episode of Cloud 9, the Netmums podcast miniseries brought to you by Aldi Mamia, we are joined by Ferne McCann, known for her unfiltered take on motherhood. Ferne, a proud mum of two, shares her journey of raising her daughters, Sunday and Finty, navigating the joys and challenges of parenting at different stages. She opens up about her experience as a girl mum, the dynamics between her daughters, and her breastfeeding journey. In this episode: - Balancing the demands of two different stages of childhood - Ferne’s personal experience of breastfeeding and the emotional bond it creates - The importance of therapy in shaping her parenting style - Navigating the complexities of parenting with a partner versus flying solo There are six brilliant episodes in this special series featuring some of our best loved celebrity mums including Olivia Bowen, Charlotte Dawson and Katie Thistleton. Each episode delves into different aspects of early motherhood – go check them out. Enjoy! This episode is sponsored by Aldi Mamia, the award-winning baby range loved by parents. Netmums – where real parents share the chaos and the comfort, so you know you’re not in it alone. Follow us on socials @Netmums and website:netmums.com  Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

Welcome to Cloud 9. The Netmums podcast mini-series brought to you by Aldi Mammaia, created especially for those quiet early hours of parenthood. If you're tuning in right now with a baby snoozing on your chest, maybe pacing the landing at 3am or maybe even running on very little sleep, this one's for you. Cloud 9 is here to remind you that you're not alone. I'm Louise Burke, the editor-director of Netmums,

and during this special series, I'll be chatting to some of our favourite well-known moms about the highs and lows of those early days because we're all in this together. That's what NetMums is here for. We're here to help. I mean, we even give away free Aldi Mubi and newborn nappies to new mums. Head to netmums.com to find out more.

Today I'm joined by someone who has lived so much of her motherhood journey in the public eye with honesty and strength, the wonderful Fern McCann. You'll know Fern from the Anyway as Essex. I'm a celebrity and of course from her Fly on the Wall show's first-time mum and my family and me, which followed her raw, real and emotional journey into motherhood. She's also the host of Every Cloud, her mental health podcast, where she draws on seven years of therapy to create a safe space for open and supportive conversations.

Fernie's mum to two gorgeous girls, Sunday, whose big sister to Finty, who arrived in 2023. Today we're talking about life as a proud girl mom, the juggle of two completely different stages of childhood, and her emotional breastfeeding journey and how therapy has shaped the kind of mother she wants to be. Hi Fern, welcome to the Cloud 9 podcast. How are you doing? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. I want to talk to you today about all things motherhood. I know you've got, I was going to say little Sunday at home,

but she's not actually that little anymore. Rishi, but definitely Fint is very little. Yes, I know. I can't believe how quick the time goes and you're so right, Sunday is now eight and I'm not even joking. It was literally

overnight. She ran into my room and she had a pair of pajama bottoms on and she was hysterically laughing because they were halfway up her leg and I was like, you have got so tall overnight. Like

Yeah. She has just shot up and she, yeah, is not so little and she's very tall and I officially have an eight-year-old which just sounds absolutely bonkers. And is she a brilliant big sister to Finty? Yes. She is a brilliant big sister. Of course they have their moments. I was going to say there was a pause there when you said, yes, I think she is a brilliant

big sister at times? is Finty a brilliant little sister at times, but, you know, sisters and sisters. And they have like a five and a half six year age gap, so a significant age gap. But I mean, Finty is really finding her way and her voice and her, not power, but, you know, she's like standing up for herself. She wants to play with everything that Sunday's got. and there's, you know, constant games of tug-of-war with Barbies and things like that. But she's amazing Sunday because, say, for example, this morning, I needed to quickly run, get some gym clothes on to then do the school run.

And Finty was just having an absolute meltdown. And I was like, do you want to cuddle with Sunday? And she's so good with her. And she really takes care of her and plays with her. And, yeah, it's lovely, lovely relationship. That's really sweet. Because obviously you mentioned the gap between the two of them. What was it like having Finty after the gap?

Because a lot of people will have another one whilst the other one's still in nappies. So they're never really at the nappy stage. But you had quite a gap. What was that like? Oh, I played it so well. I honestly feel like my timing was perfect. You know, like I don't say that lightly because I do not envy my. and I know that whole, you know, get it done and, you know, you might as well have them all in nappies and you're just in the trenches at that point. And I get it. But for me and my circumstances, it didn't happen like that. And I'm, I just, you know, when I dropped Sunday off at school, me and Laurie, we say that Finty is getting the first baby experience because now where we're at in our lives, we both predominantly work from.

home and Sunday is at school and then we could just be present with Finty. So yeah, I strongly recommend a six year age gap, guys. It's the sweet spot because as well, it's still good enough that you can still get, if you want to do that whole matching their outfits, I can still get bits Sunday's age and Finty's age and they still look cute. And even as they get older, it's not like a massive age gap. So, yeah, to the point where you then go back, I don't know, like 15 years later and then you're doing it again with nappies and all of that. So, yeah, six years. It really is.

Highly recommend it. And what was it like? Because I'm guessing Sunday was fine with her sleeping patterns and things like that. And so getting up in the night with Finty, was that still exhausting? Or were you obviously weren't having to juggle two kids getting up in the night so much? Yeah, I think the problems that sort of come up was that I felt that, of course, when you have another baby and another child, your time is then split and then it's that guilt of, oh, I hope that, because there's so many moments where I say to Sunday, right, you go and get yourself ready and you almost just push this independence on them. and I'm really mindful of that so it's more just splitting myself in two

and of course Finti demands more of my attention but in terms of sleep in terms of sleep I have been on a journey with both of them when I met Laurie Sunday was about four just turned four and we had this thing called the chair

and he was like what is it with you in that chair I used to sit on the landing in a chair because I'd done like sleep I worked with the sleep therapist and you start off with the chair by the bed and you edge it out and this went on for months

and I couldn't do the final step where you eventually disappear out of sight so I was in this chair for ages and he said when Finti's born we're not doing the chair and it'd become a bit of a joke but then Finty didn't sleep because I just fall into that trap

and I'm fascinated by it and I know a lot about it because I've worked with sleep therapies, that you become their sleep prop. So unless they fall asleep independently, then you or whatever it is, or whether it's the sound machine or their dummy or, you know, your nipple or the bottle or a book or whatever,

you sort of patting them to sleep, whatever it is becomes their sleep prop. So that I did, I made the same mistake twice with Sunday and with Finty, but it's that nurturing, like you do want to cuddle them off to sleep. And I co-s slept with both of my girls up until it was time to move them into their own car. Obviously, with Sunday, I was a single mother.

It made sense for us to be together. So it's circumstantial. But we've been to. It wasn't even that long ago where Laurie's like, no, we are not, we are not bringing a chair into this room because she's got the smallest room. And I was like, okay, but we do need to be there and edge ourselves out. I'm not suggesting a chair. But yes, we have got it under control where, I think, where Finty was born, Sunday was sleeping through the night. And she has the odd nightmare or poorly or she, whatever it is.

But now, touch word, I mean, there was not about four months ago where Finty would wake up at 4 a.m. And I thought, well, this is just my life now. We just have to wake up. but we finally got it under control. She wakes up anywhere between half five and six. And you know it's coming. You know it's coming. I don't know about you, but when my kids were younger as well,

I feel like I spent so much time talking about sleep and sleep routines. And it's just like, stop, let's stop strategising with the sleep routine. But like you said, you've done a lot of work with the sleep consultants. And sometimes you do go down these bunny holes with like different methods in different ways, because ideally you want them sleeping so you can sleep. Yeah, and ultimately sleep is so important. And I think when you're a mum to young babies and young children or children who just don't sleep and you have disrupted sleep, and then you're on social media and you're

looking, you know, sleep is so important to your stress levels, to your weight management and all of this. And I'm like, I'm just about getting a few hours. it can be soul destroying and you know that when it comes to bedtime you're like okay here we go again i feel just so grateful that she is sleeping through the night because we have been through it but ultimately and i know this is is controversial when because i've spoke about sleep therapists and working with them on my social media and people are like you know it's only for a short time and your children are scared and da da da da but i'm like hang on a second

right because I don't like the whole controlled crime thing but ultimately you have to give it 10 minutes and I feel like 10 minutes is a really good significant amount of time for them to learn that skill of self-settling and then when you actually like force yourself to do it because I always like I can't stand to you are crying

And I'm like, she's fine. And I've cuddled her and I've patted her and I've gone and checked on her. And then she got it within like two nights. And I was like, thank goodness for that. Oh, good, you did it. But clearly you've got a good pain barrier with that cry up with hearing the crying. And Laurie's not got such a high pain barrier with the crying. Yes.

You know, like you can clash with your partner. Like, I'm going in. No, I'm going in. No. It's like, oh, the arguments. And the text messages. I've sent him some. like proper, you, we agreed and this and this.

But no, it's fascinating, isn't it? Not just with sleep, but with about being compatible with your partner when it comes to parenting. And, yeah, there's a lot of conversations. I think that first year of having a baby with someone is really, really challenging. And then it sort of settles down. I never experienced that with Sunday. I never had to... Because you were doing it on your own.

Yeah, I actually think it was easier. You didn't have to consult anyone or work it out with anyone or depend on anyone or be let down by anyone. There you go, Louise. It was, of course, I think you always, you always, you know, lust for what you haven't got and you think the grass is greener and, oh, you know, you see, I remember I used to see, like, it was like dads in the supermarket and saying it. out loud now, but it felt so, so strong when I was in it, when I was a single parent was Sunday, and I'd see like little family moments. And it would really, really get to me. And on social media, that's amplified and everything like that. But honestly, like that first year, when me and Laurie had finty, I was like, now you look back at that year.

Yes. I would go back to being, just making the decisions all by myself. So yeah, I think it's really challenging and it puts like massive tests on your relationship. No, it does put a big test on your, on your relationship. But it's really hard work, parenting a newborn. It really is. Yeah. Yeah, no, it is. And as well, because, you know, you've both got different ideas

and you've both been raised differently. And it's a lot. I can just remember being sort of snappy and sleepless nights and hormones and everything that's involved. And ultimately, you're just trying to do your best, which is, you know, I remember. I think I'm more laid back and Laurie was changing Vinty's nappy every, felt like every five minutes and I was like, looking at me, just, what are you doing?

Yeah, so irritated. I was like, A, calm down because we're going through nappies like you wouldn't believe. But also B, she doesn't need her nappie changed that much. But it's the differences. Yeah. It's fascinating. But then you find your rhythm and your groove. Yeah.

And also you get the cuddles and you see their. little red chubby cheeks when they wake up in the morning and all of all that sort of broken night sleep is like a distant memory exactly i tell you what though we had we've had a moment the other night and she does this we do this thing with finti where we get her in the middle between me and lorry and we go binti car do sandwich finti car do sandwich and she sings it along with us and she grabbed both of mine and lorry's face i just love the age that she's at she's two and a bit and her personality, she just understands everything. She's brilliant at talking. And she was like, Finty Cuddle sandwich. And she said, it's just so silly, but she said, it's my

mummy and daddy. And I was just like, this is really special to share those moments with someone. I think that's what you don't get when you're a single parent. And it was just such a small moment that just meant so much to us because she got us both and brought us both in. Yes, she could be a Eddie's girl at times. And yes, she absolutely could be a mummy's girl as well, but just like bringing us both together. It was really gorgeous. And you've been very open in the past about loving, having like girls in the house. And hopefully another girl on the way. Maybe it's a good point. Like what you're done there. I actually got asked this morning by my PT if I was going to have any more kids. And I was like, I think that I'm done. But I know that I'm, you know, like, you know,

Life doesn't work like that. Life, there's no plan with children, that's what I always think. And I think when I've ever, in my life, if I've tried to plan stuff, it hasn't gone to plan. And I just like rolling with it and just seeing what happens. I quite fancy having, so what, so I had fin to you when I was. I was waiting another six years. Yeah, no, I'm quite, so I'm 35. Right.

I quite fancy, you know, if it's possible, early 40s. I actually quite fun. I wouldn't mind that. So who knows, right now, I really enjoy our family dynamic. And obviously, Laurie's got a son as well. You know, we're a blended family. And we've got businesses, we've got lots of difference. And they can be like our little children as well. So life is full at the moment. Yeah, life is really full. So I think that if anything, we would wait maybe five years, maybe another five years. Yeah. Hmm. Well, that sounds like quite done. But yeah, I'm still a girl, mum. I'm still a girl mom. I love you, girl. I pray to God for girls. Another girl. And this is, this is no disrespect to boy mums. It's just what I know and what I feel. What is it, what is it that you like so much about being a girl, mom? What do you feel so strongly about? I think I've just always been a girl's girl. I've always just loved hanging around with girls. I don't. really have any guy friends unless they're like friends partners or arge um and lorry of course

but i i just love being around women i'm just so drawn to feminine energy and just feel really comfortable being around girls yeah i sometimes feel a bit awkward around guys and i think i think I mean, like, without opening cans of worms and, if that's the right term, but, you know, it's like, it's like, where does that, where does that come from? But I just feel so at ease and love the conversation and love that feminine energy. It would be a little company. Nice. And we're going back to talking about your sort of plan for the future. You're, are you still breastfeeding Finty now?

Yes. Wow. And that was, is that, you know, it was a bold choice of yours to make that to carry on breastfeeding or, because then you have talked, I think, on your social about you worry about losing that attachment as well. If you stop breastfeeding. But then obviously there's days when you're like always feel attached to someone. So it's like things aroundabouts. Oh, sure. Where are you in that journey now?

It's a great question. because I want to stop, but I haven't properly tried. I think I would be ready to finish breastfeeding entirely now with Finti. Because that's the thing, you described it as being a bold choice. It wasn't really a choice. It wasn't like a conscious choice.

It just sort of happened that way. And even I surprised myself where I'm like, yeah, I'm still breastfeeding her and it just happened organically. So for us, it feels very, very normal. Of course, I'm aware for the average person, it's not the norm. For the breastfeeding community, it completely is. But publicly, when I've shared it, it isn't. So I completely, I get it and I don't.

But I, yeah, I've seen like all sorts of comments where people are like, you know, about the controversy of breastfeeding, why does she still need to do it and all of this? For me, it doesn't bother me because I love speaking to the breastfeeding community. I want to stop, and then every time I think about how it feels so challenging. Yes, it's going to play, you know, pull on the heartstrings.

And when I think about it, I'm like, oh, I just don't want this chapter to end. but I do feel ready because actually she will be like sometimes she's like me screaming like an absolute crained yeah and I'm like right okay we you don't need it right like let's calm down because she wants it and you yeah exactly and then and then Laurie's like well she doesn't know and it really is tough now and I'm like okay because but only emotionally for her, because where I'm like, right, okay, we just do it in the mornings and the evening. So I just feel, I just, I don't know how, genuinely.

I tried to work with a breastfeeding consultant, so to speak, and a breastfeeding specialist. And I tried. I tried. It is so, and this is the thing that I haven't openly shared, because I, this is just me, just being completely transparent with you. I feel like I've got this responsibility now to be extremely pro breastfeeding and I am.

But it does come with, you know, it does come with its challenges. And now I'm in a position where I'm like, I don't know how I'm ever going to stop. Yeah. Because she so loves it so much. And that's the thing. It's that she loves it and it's our bond

and I feel so connected to her. It's just such a beautiful thing. And there are still so many health benefits. But at the same time, I think lifestyle, I feel ready, but I know she's not. So it's honestly, it really is emotionally hard to make that decision. So now I've just fallen into this trap where I'm just continuing. So it's not conscious. It's just, we're just going with it.

Yeah, because it's too difficult. Because the emotional connection is so strong around it now. Exactly. Whereas I think about two months ago, I was like, I'm not ready to stop. I've got no plans. And I'm just, but now she's, I think, you know, she'll be starting school. They go a year early with the school that she's going to. So she'll be starting school in a year's just under a year's time.

So I'm like, I'm trying to plan, future plan. my friends are joking and saying oh you'll be the one picking her up at lunchtime for a bit for booby milk and I'm like there's nothing wrong with that. I would quite comfortably breastfeed her and I used to joke about this

I remember Laurie said it on my show and he was like oh you'll be breastfeeding her till four and I was like don't be so ridiculous but I could see myself breastfeeding her till she's 40 years old I could see myself three years old is not that far off

and I'm sort of in my In my head, I've got no, it's only because it's been sort of forced upon me that I think, okay, I've got to start thinking about maybe stopping and I've tried to say no. Honestly, if anyone is listening to this and has got some words of wisdom, please DM me because I, and as well, I don't know if I want to. I'm so ambivalent. I'm feeling all different emotions. I, my instinct, and I'm no best feeling expert, but, But I wouldn't feel forced to do anything. That would be my, like, an instinctive response to what you're saying.

I wouldn't force yourself to do stuff. Yeah, because lots of moms have said, oh, they just weaned themselves off naturally. And it just sort of happened organically. And they knew when was the time to stop? And I was like, I mean, Finty will be doing it until she just loves it that much. But then at the same time, she's not in nursery, so she is with me quite a lot. I think when it comes to school, it will be, not organically change, maybe.

Yes. It must have really sort of cemented your mother-daughter bond as well. Oh, there's just no, I have to be really careful with what I say here because I know that I just think it is just so. beautiful and there's nothing that I can compare it to please bear in mind that I also formula fed Sunday so I done mixed feeding when I exclusively breastfed Sunday till she was six months and then I then I mixed yeah and I just I just don't think you can you can compare the two right of course I'm not saying that you don't have a bond with your baby if you're formula feeding you do what you do every mother does what she needs to do and I just think that

It's just your choice on whatever you feel comfortable with and you're just doing your best ultimately. And you know as a mother what is going to be right for your baby. However, for me, I just love that connection and that time. And there is nothing on this planet that comes close to breast milk in terms of nutrition. Nothing on this planet is so unique and magic. And it's your own personal prescribed medicine. I mean, it is bonkers how it works, the science. And I'm not going to tell you how it works because I'll probably get it wrong.

But it's like, you know, it's just brilliant. And I think that I've loved my experience of breastfeeding and I'm so passionate about it. And I just think that everyone should try because it really is such a special, special time and chapter to have for the newborn, yeah, and your baby. You mentioned you've spoken to breastfeeding support, previously spoke to sleep consultants. Do you, are you good at reaching out for support and help? And if so, what does that support generally look like to you with your? and your newborns or small babies. Yeah, I think I've always been quite inquisitive by nature.

I'm an ex-hairedresser, so I'm great with a small talk. I'm a people's person, so I love to hear about all sorts. But with the show that I did my reality show, we would meet, obviously, we're producing a show and we'd get to like the beginning of a new series and I'm like, right, what expert am I going to go and meet next? So it became a bit of a joke. So I had that opportunity to meet with breastfeeding experts and, you know, baby weaning experts to this and that. But actually, I do think that if you can, and like, for example, Finty, she wasn't latching very well when she was a newborn.

And I was like, what? Like, Sunday I'm doing all the right things. And we then discovered because I had such a quick labor. she came through the birth canal with such force and speed that it tightened up her jaw. So we had to get cranial therapy with an osteopath. Only like one or two sessions, but it's remarkable. And I discovered that through reaching out to a breastfeeding educator. And she was like, okay, maybe you need to do this.

And they check for tongue ties. So, yeah, I think. And for me, I love, and I know, because I've spoken about this. before and people are like not all community midwives it depends where you live not all of them are brilliant and da-da-da-da-da but my experience has always been that the community midwives want you to win and they want you to have success with your newborn so like any silly question i remember asking them just like the most you know because i didn't know when i gave birth to sunday like what to do and of course my mom was there and i had loads of help but i would just ask them all the

questions and just yeah just like they they want you to well with my experience I felt like they really wanted you to have that success with your baby so yeah no qualms in asking questions and reaching out for help yeah no matter how random or silly or anything just ask a question or sometimes what I used to try and do was if I had a question write it down so then when I did see the midwife I had a list of questions yes your brain's like a sieve during those early days when you're not getting much sleep. It's always writing them down and then you've got them there to ask them all at once

because it is like gold time when you've got that midwife in front of you. So true. That's a really good tip. What I will say, when I speak about breastfeeding and because lots of people feel so disheartened and disappointed in themselves if they were unable to do it or they couldn't do it or, you know, they threw in the towel or whatever.

Or, you know, I had a friend that was so desperate for a natural birth. She ended up having a cesarean. And it's just like all of these pressures with people doing it differently. I just want people to know that my experience, I would never, in fact, that would really devastate me if I was to at all make anyone feel like they were like not doing enough ultimately. Because at the end of the day, let's just use breastfeeding, for example. If you don't want to breastfeed, don't have to flip in breastfeed. If you feel that in yourself, that isn't right for you, then that, that's, that's, that's, that's divine. That, that's perfect for you.

So it's like, you spoke about Louise, like relieving those pressures. And I think that that is, that is it. That is it. And talking about the advice throwing it back to, you know, me as a young mom when I was just, having Sunday is relieving those pressures. And what someone else does might not be for you and it's horses for courses, isn't it? So I just wanted to say that. Yeah, the phrase I often say in my house is stop adding things in, take things out. And whether that's pressures or social arrangements or ideas or anything, I'm like, stop adding more in. Just like, yeah, I love it. You don't need

adding more in the more you add in the whole time is just, it's not helpful. Sorry. I think anyone that is now listening, I want them all to cancel their plans for the next weekend. It's Christmas. Christmas is going to add anything more in. Oh, no, brilliant. I love that. And did you look for expert help through social media or Google or do you go into your community for it? When it comes to the children, I will, like with Sunday, for example, I've just got

her a math tutor. She's got the first one tonight. I am in Dunard whether I should tell her this morning. And I thought she's just going to moan and it's just going to give her a bad day. And after the whole magic with the elves arriving this morning, I thought, oh, God. So she's going to have a lovely surprise where I'm like, surprise. You've got a math tutor today. Here's your advent calendar. Here's also a math tutor. And the elves are watching. So yeah, I just asked in the WhatsApp groups, in my community. and then recommended because you've got children

that are in the same area that are going through the same things and I think those recommended referrals are just you just can't beat it when somebody has had a great experience with someone, you know, so that's what I do. But then absolutely,

like I love the community that you find on social media and sharing on your stories and I'm so open. Like, you know, even with this comment, I'm like, please, please, if anyone has got any tips, because you never know. I mean, doing that, it does also open the doors to the mum police that like, because everyone thinks that they know best.

But I love that there is a community. Like, I spoke about the breastfeeding community. It's so tight and everyone is in the same boat and going through the same challenges and emotion. So, yeah, definitely putting it out there and seeking advice on social media. And of course, like, you then have a. access to people from all over, not just who are local. Yeah.

Yeah. You've talked recently and launched a podcast as a result of it, but you've talked a lot about therapy that you've had for the last seven years and then now you've got your podcast out, which is leaning more into that sort of therapy, well-being, healing sort of space, which is great. I listened to a couple the other day. It's very good. I got quite attached.

I was thinking about what my storm was. I know you were talking about, well, think about a storm in your life and how you've navigated it. Do you feel like you've launched that because you really believe that therapy works? Therapy's helped you massively over the last seven years, would you say? I mean, it must have to a point that you continued it for seven years. Are you still in therapy now? Yes, yes.

I still see my therapist every week. Right. And I, just because I enjoy it, and it's like maintenance, you know, like I think when I initially went, I really needed it at that time of my life. And the podcast, Every Cloud, was born out of, I guess, inspiration from my therapy journey. And I just knew that, you know, therapy is accessible for everyone. and I just developed a real passion for psychology and behaviours and why we sort of do certain things and obviously going through some turbulent times,

living them out quite publicly. I just, you know, when you're really in the thick of a storm, it can feel all-consuming and really tough. And I think after and healing and going through those moments, I've had my biggest moments of growth and lessons learn. And I just wanted to speak to other people, whether they are celebrities or influencers or experts in their fields, because I think we've all had some sort of trauma. And I just think it's speaking to these inspirational people who have really been through it and sharing their silver lining moments can be so transformative and helpful. And then, of course, in between those episodes, we have, I sit with psychotherapists, life coaches, psychologists, where we take a real life subject that might affect us all from discovering your sole purpose to attachment styles to dealing with grief, whatever it is, and going on a deep dive and giving the listeners tangible tips to how they can apply them to their life.

So, yeah, I'm really proud of it. I feel like ultimately the podcast is will undoubtedly give people hope and they'll be able to go on a journey of self-discovery to be able to understand themselves a little bit more. Tell me the motherhood journey. Is that strengthened you or did that send you into a storm? Oh, strengthened me without doubt. I learned so much about myself.

and I've always said that Sunday gave me purpose. I was so lost before falling pregnant with Sunday, which I think lots of people are when they're in their 20s. And she was just the light that I needed in my life. And I wasn't overly maternal before falling pregnant with Sunday. And now I just love being a mum. Absolutely just, yeah, my biggest blessings, my biggest achievements, is my biggest achievement and they've really grounded who I am as a person.

What would you say your cloud nine moments are when you are watching your girls either at home or in the park or at the dinner table or on a day out? I love that. We've got the cloud themes with the podcast, Cloud Nine Moment. Every cloud's silver lining moment. It's very symbolic. Cloud 9 moments with my children, there's so many. I think with the age that Sunday's at now, I love, of course, we all love seeing them thrive. And especially where they are, I think now she's eight, she's in year three, she's really discovering what she, her interest and what she loves and seeing her face light up. You share that emotion, don't you?

And she's incredibly sporty and competitive and just loves going to her athletics club. But even this morning, just seeing the magic because, you know, like I said, she's eight years old and living sort of, you know, the magic through them. I want to be careful because I know people listen out loud to podcasts and I don't know who's around. So just seeing her face this morning and I shared something on my stories where she was talking to the two elves that have arrived in our household called Pip and Pepper and just catching those moments. I love catching those moments where they don't know that you're watching and it's just so like beautiful and joyous and charming. And then with Finty it's like she is such an extrovert and she's a social butterfly and I'm just so. proud of her when she she I think but with both of my girls they take genuine interest in other people and I love that because I'm yeah I'm I'm I'm exactly the same and I think that that

no matter what because especially with school which I've not that I've got love hate relationship with it but like Sunday thrives at school but then the next minute I'm on social media and I'm like yes to homeschooling not that I could do it but I sort of get both. Right. But then with school, they're so measured by, you know, maths and English. And I'm like, what, she's only eight. She's eight.

And I just think to myself, she can hold great conversations. And I'm like, I mean, it's got me to where I am today. And I'm like, you know, I feel like I've done all right. So I'm like, you are a people's person. and people like being around you or like working with you and you're a team player. Yeah.

That's a great, great skill. Exactly. Yeah, definitely seeing them thrive and seeing their little personality blossom. Yeah, for sure. Are you a, I know you just mentioned homeschooling, which actually makes me sort of shudder, to be honest, but only because it gives me like lockdown, trigger vibe.

Yeah. But are you a routine person at home with your kids Or do you sort of go with the flow? We make plans. And then, yeah, I mean, you're run by the, our routine, my life is run by the school run. And I love it. And when the summer holidays and a half term, routine goes out the window, it gets to the end. And I'm craving that school run.

Because for me, it just works so perfectly. School run, then I go to the gym. And then we have our set days with, like, my mum. mom has finty on a Monday and we have a nanny three days a week. So yes, we are routine, but for me, I never have two days that are the same. But yeah, we make plans. I think that am I a routine kind of girl? I don't really think that I am, but I thrive when I have to be, I don't know. I'm laid back. I like to go with the flow. And you can't like, you can't, like, you can't make too many plans, couldn't you?

No. But some structure is always, because sometimes I think, I look ahead at a weekend, I think, oh, I've got nothing planned this weekend. How lovely. Love it.

And that's always the busiest weekend. Because I go, because I go, oh, we've got nothing planned and then I slot loads in. Whereas sometimes when I'm like, just one thing a day over the weekend is enough. Because no doubt, like you say, someone gets ill or something happens

or someone turns up on your doorstep or something like that. So there's always like having a, plan is quite hard sometimes. But do you know, I just, I love, like this weekend we had no plans and you stuck to no plans. And we stuck to it, but then it allowed me and Sunday to go and see Wicked at the cinema, just me and her. And that was just so gorgeous.

We went with Fincy's nap time and it all worked out quite well. But we are routine when it comes to bedtime because obviously I know how important name, you know, with the bath, that's winding down. Yeah, you know, you know. Basically, you can book me to be your sleep therapist if you want. But yeah, so we're quite routine with that. But yeah, look, our lives, me and Lurie could be like passing ships sometimes.

We've got the joy in the calendar. I'm out this evening. It all seems to go crazy this time of the year. So we're now, we're in a groove. We've got a really good support network. I mean, even like, My cleaner Caroline, who is just like, she's part of the family. She will have finty.

We live around the corner from the school. So she'll have finty for 10 minutes whilst I do the school run. And it's just, it's a lovely, I like a busy household, you know. But we all work really well together. And what does it look like when you said you've got your bedtime routine down? The kids are in bed. They're sleeping. There's no up and down, up and down, settling.

They're sleeping. What does your evening, if you're not going out to a work event or something, or seeing friends, what does that look like for you and Laurie? Okay, so it really does depend, but I will, nine times out of ten, I've got a million and one things to do because I've got a nutrition business and we host calls in the evenings. So Monday nights is always calls. Oh, this is sounding very busy already.

No, it is busy. But then I also will do, like my work sort of starts, like social media and editing. I edit all of my own content. So then like getting back to people that I haven't been able to because those times with the school run and getting the kids to bed, I want to be present with them. So it's a real juggle. But then also I do make time for meditation, prayer, maybe doing like a skincare thing or like a bit of a guasha.

But it's never, it's never routine. It's just like what I'm intuitively drawn to, exactly. But it can be really busy on Friday night. Me and Laurie was like, okay, we've got the whole weekend. Let's start a series. I watched one episode and fell asleep, honestly. Sounds like my trick. And he's like every time and then I'm left and then I'm left and then I'm left

and then I have to watch the rest of the series. I'm also juggling trying to watch the jungle at the moment because I'm reporting on this morning about I'm a celebrity. So it really is a juggle. And now, of course, we've got the Christmas magic. I don't want to actually use the terminology. So that's that. My sister texted me last night saying don't forget about the, yeah, you know where I'm at.

So I was there this morning. It's a juggle. It's a juggle. But I love, that's why it was really important to make sure that my girls have a routine bedtime because I need that time to, and I like doing the school runs. So the school days is really short. you have only a few hours to play with. Yeah, no, I know.

Tell me about it. Yeah, no. If you could go back and whisper a piece of advice into your ear pre-Sunday, so it was back in 2017, a long, long time ago. Yes. What would you whisper into your ear? I would say, release expectations. you know, just, just, just go with the flow,

just release the expectations. And also you know more than what you think. Like you're that mother's motherly intuition, like trust yourself more because I think ultimately that bond with you and your baby, breastfeeding, formula feeding, whatever you decide to do, sleep therapist, go sleep, whatever you, whatever floats your boat, however you're raising homeschooling

school, whatever, you ultimately know what is right for you and your child. I think we don't give enough credit to that time that your baby spends in the womb and just those moments, like you are so connected to your children and ultimately, yeah, you go with that instinct. Yeah, go with that that intuition and instinct. Is that something that you feel like you've learned through your therapy sessions over the years that may be like pre-sunday pre-therapy, you did sort of bow down to expectations and pressures that you put on yourselves to do something or be something or look a certain way? And now as you've done your therapy, you've become a mother, you've found a new partner,

you've got your family unit, you feel stronger and like, it's, feel more like you don't have to put so much pressure on yourself? Yeah, sure. I feel the most grounded that I have ever felt in my life and I feel like I really know myself and like know my even like the ugly sides of yourself. I think when you go through therapy, there's moments that you don't want to sit. You have to ultimately I think with therapy you have to take responsibility and you have to look inwards and that can be really challenging. So without doubt I know myself inside out and I think that that has allowed me to become a better person and ultimately a better mother without doubt. I was about to say that, yeah.

And you feel like you're in a good place to be a role model and to be there for your girls. Yeah, and I think as well, like I've found it challenging at times where Sunday's like, you know, having say, I'm mindful that I don't want to project how I would have reacted or how my that impulse comes up and I'm like oh did you say this or you don't want to project that onto them so I and I've learned that through therapy and also like I'm so into like I mean I've got a love hate relationship with gentle parenting but we won't go there but I love let's save that one for another time because I think come on like it's just yeah whatever however however i am here for validating sunday's feelings

and like really just understanding where she's coming from and what is like a big deal for her and we've been doing this thing of an evening where i saw it on instagram and it has been so brilliant because like the benefits of them being able to open up before bed yeah you know i don't know the stats but it's the the the rose and thought it's a good quiet time yeah yeah exactly And we share our thorn of the day, so anything that might have challenged us or upset us. A prickly issue. Yeah, didn't go in our favour or didn't go accordingly, according to plan. And then, of course, our rose, which is just the beautiful, gorgeous moments that made us smile.

And we sometimes, like, because she made a bracelet for her friend, it was a wicked elf of a bracelet. it and I broke it by accident five minutes before leaving for the school run because I tried to meet on my race and she had to melt that and I get it. I get it and I was apologetic and then obviously that was both of our thorns. Yes. Because we shared that and I was like I am so sorry and you know it was a moment and then obviously the rose was that I remade it when she was at school

and then presented it to her after school. So yeah it's just such a lovely way to like have. that connection where they are sort of just before bed. Right time, no destruction, yes. Yeah, just one to one. Fern, it's been absolutely lovely hearing about your girls and also how you're completely smashing it as a mother by the sense of it. It's been really lovely and insightful and I'm sure a lot of people will really resonate

with some of those words of advice as well, whether it was around breastfeeding or putting pressure on yourself because we do. we always put pressure on ourselves, don't we? It's like, yeah, the biggest, one of the biggest life challenges as a mother, I think. Thank you. That was really great, a really nice chat. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's been amazing. Fern, thank you so much for sharing your honesty and your gorgeous girl mom energy with us today. Your openness about breastfeeding, therapy, family life and all the messy, beautiful bits in between will mean so much to so many parents listening right now.

You can read more from Fern's chat and find expert advice on breastfeeding at netmums.com. And don't forget, you can claim your free pack of Aldi Mammaia newborn nappies there too. Thank you to Aldi Mammaia, the award-winning baby range loved by parents, for supporting today's episode. And to everyone listening, if you enjoyed this chat,

hit follow, leave a review, and come join the NetMums community. I'm Louise Burke and this was Cloud 9. Thank you.