The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep12: Katie Piper talks about the joy of becoming a mum when, for so long, it was beyond her wildest dreams

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

What does it feel like to become a parent when for so long you thought it wouldn’t happen for you? Katie Piper, bestselling author, activist, model and TV presenter of Songs of Praise, shares why she’d have 10 children if her husband would go for it. Listen as she shares with Annie and Wendy how life as a mum has brought home the agony her own mum must have felt at watching her suffer after the acid attack that caused major damage to her face and blinded her in one eye. And prepare to be awed – Katie isn’t just a survivor, she’s a thriver. No wonder her books sell by the bucket load!

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Sweat, snot and teary types, what's happening? I'm Turi with Joy, as we've just found out that the podcast is ranking as one of the top parenting podcasts in the UK.

And we're over the moon. Thank you all for listening. And for your lovely ratings and reviews, please do keep them coming. And use them to tell us which other guests you'd love us to feature. Wendy, who would you like us to have on that we haven't had already?

I'm aiming high. I want Michelle Obama. Oh man, so do I. Do you think she'd come on? I don't think so, but we can aim high. We can aim, we can aim high. Okay, enough of the wishful thinking though. Let's give thanks for today's guest.

It's Katie Piper. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Great to be here. And congratulations on your new job, host of Songs of Praise. That's a big job. Yeah, it's a bit of a bucket list for me, actually. You know, it's kind of a bit of an

institution I think most people remember it on at least even in the background every Sunday growing up yes it reminds me of not having done my homework yeah hair wash night finding your school uniform in a dirty pile from Friday that kind of feeling yeah sounds like my life now for my kids actually so are you excited yeah I've already done my first shoot and that actually tx last week um so yeah it's been brilliant and it's kind of like a roaming reporter role where I actually go out to connect with people and meet people and travel around the country so yeah it's the kind of thing that I love doing so it's really you know whenever you get to do jobs that are sort of fulfilling your passion, as well as being a job, it's a great feeling and a moment of gratitude that you're doing something you love. Yeah, because lots of people don't get to do that, do they? They're going to jobs to pay bills, and that's about it. So it's a real honour, isn't it, to do something that you really love. Yeah, it is. And especially, you know, for me, I am, you know, identify as a Christian. So also, you know, there's that side that, you know, connecting

with other people that may have either been brought up as a Christian or actually found faith later on in life. It's really good to have that common ground and share what for us is quite a joyful feeling. I was going to ask you that actually, Katie, the role has obviously linked in part to your faith that you found in adulthood so can you tell us how that happened and how you live it in your everyday life now yeah so I was brought up um in it's not an atheist family my family but it was like Christian values without the title so we weren't christened we didn't go to church um and then I just kind of identified as sort of you know all my general knowledge from RE and celebrating Christmas and that was where

it stopped um and then after I came out of my coma I was in intensive care being um subjected to an acid attack I had a nurse that was on the night shift with me. So I was in hospital for like three months. So you kind of end up making a new family with all the healthcare assistants. And there was this one nurse in particular, Alice, and she was Christian. And you know, it's kind of sad, but you know, she'd probably lose her job for this. But she started to talk to me about her faith. She would pray with me, she would sing to me, she'd hold my hand, she would talk to me about quite deep stuff around the meaning of life and purpose and it was a real comfort in a dark time um and I kind of had my own experience where I felt something

happened to me that told me not to give up and to carry on and on reflection I do feel like that was a religious experience um with something higher than what we know to be, you know, on Earth in our everyday life. And so when I left hospital, I stayed in touch with her. She gave me a Bible. She put her email address at the back of the Bible. I turned up randomly and surprised her in her church one day. And then it inspired me where I was. I'd gone back home to live with my parents.

I joined a church and I was going twice a week and I did an alpha course. And then it just became this huge part of my life. And when I went on to get married, we did a six week Christian marriage course to have a Christian wedding. And we've been, you know, nine years have been together and it really helped us prepare for marriage and understand each other more um and it's funny because I've always talked about being a Christian but I feel like people never really picked up on it until I got announced on Songs of Praise and I feel like that's because people have an image or an idea of what a Christian is and maybe they think I don't fit that narrative um so that's what I'm most excited about about the role that I hope the people that like my clothes on Instagram and my breakfast might also like.

I'm not trying to evangelize people, but maybe some people have already had some kind of flirtation with religion and thoughts of it and seek comfort in it, but haven't gone any further with it. And maybe they'll come over and whatever, you know, I mean, Christianity is about love thy neighbor and treating people how you want to be treated so the kind of broad aspects of it are all around kindness and compassion and I think songs of praise is as mainstream as it gets in that sense isn't it you know yeah so do you think you'd have ended up feeling as you do and believing as you do now if you hadn't been attacked in the way you were, and if you hadn't gone through the most traumatic experience and ended up in hospital, not knowing what was going to happen to you, or do you think it really is one of those, this life event happened to me and here I am because of that? It's such a big question, isn't it? Because it's all about

hindsight. And I suppose, you know, nobody knows. And and I think for me how I operate is you know I don't believe in luck coincidence um or just sort of leaving it up to life and see what happens I you know we're never in control I believe in God's plan so I know that everything happened that has happened to me the good the bad whatever all of it's part of a plan so when people people talk to me about anxiety, that's why I'm able to surrender and understand and take comfort in the fact that we are never in control of our lives. And actually, that's okay. And you know, if you speak to people that aren't religious, and maybe they're just spiritual, and they believe in the universe, like they will seek comfort in that and being able to surrender in that way so yeah who knows what would have happened

but I know everything that has happened to me is directive and signals and it's all the plan so that helps now as well as being the new host of songs of praise uh we're big fans of your podcast you've got your own podcast extraordinary people and I think the reason we love it is that we love the idea of everyone being extraordinary because something that we've discovered as part of doing this is that everyone has an extraordinary story to tell as long as you kind of scratch beneath the surface tell us who have you loved having on as a guest and also who would you like to have that you haven't yet yeah I mean the podcast for me um is one of my projects that I know, really favour out of all the different stuff that I do.

And I think, you know, when you do telly, it's a brilliant way to connect with people. But, you know, you're not in the edit and you're not always in control fully of everything. But I think of a podcast, you can drive it, you can drive who you have on there. And I didn't want another celebrity kind of loaded podcast. And I kind of, you know, I hate that question. Who's your favourite celebrity? What celebrity most inspires you? And I kind of you know I hate that question who's your favorite celebrity what celebrity most inspires you and I think well no one because I find it hard to be inspired by somebody I don't really know and haven't connected with properly so the whole idea was bring normal people who don't have a platform but have faced adversity and are

just kind of getting on with it and doing amazing things together. So it's run for two years and there's been over 60 guests. So to single someone out I think would be hard because they've had such different stories and such different coping mechanisms. And I suppose the thing is I always feel like not the fan but like the one who's nodding my head going, oh, right, okay, I should do that. I should apply that to my life.

And I always feel like I'm exploring and investigating with them and and learning stuff so I it always feels like a platform where they're kind of teaching me actually so it's quite a you know it's been quite good in lockdown it stopped me going crazy and depressed and it's been quite cathartic well I'd also heard that running helped you in lockdown is running a newfound thing for you? I can't run. It's just not a thing. I like it. You were very final.

I'm not. It's not a thing. It's not a thing. But Annie discovered running and you've discovered running. And now I just feel left out. So come on, tell me what it is about running that makes you love it. And like, are you 10K? Are you 20K? Are you 2K? What do you do? Okay. So I'm a lapsed runner. So basically I got into running years ago. So this is like, I'd been attacked, went to live with mum and dad, recovered, went back to London, got like a one bed flat, was single, trying to

like get on with my life all my friends were like getting mortgages getting married and I couldn't even get anyone to text me back like it was just a complete nightmare um so I was quite lonely in the evenings because all my friendship groups had stopped meeting up on a weeknight and stuff because they were homemaking and um I was having difficulties with some unhealthy coping mechanisms of alcohol and running was like right you can't run drunk. So I have to stay drunk. Well, you could try, but it might go very badly wrong.

Yeah. And not running for hours. So I was like, this is an incentive to not drink every night and not go to a bad place. And I'm also super lonely. So running will help with that loneliness. Oh, it's making you feel bad, Katie. I don also super lonely. So running will help with that loneliness. Oh, it's making me sad, Katie. I don't like having to run. Yeah, but it was practical because I didn't want to go to a gym because I found a gym intimidating and I wasn't confident.

And I was still wearing a mask on my face. And I was like, well, when people, I run past them in a mask, they look at me weirdly shocked. But it makes you run faster. And it's just a moment and I can get away from that embarrassment. Yeah, it's fleeting, isn't it? Yeah. Whereas in a gym, people do stare at you and it is like sometimes quite difficult socially. So then as my confidence picked up, I then started making it sociable and going to park runs and making friends with people. And that was really cool. And then I got into like half marathons started running really far that's really far started being really smug and annoying like I

turn up in running meetings like hey guys I just ran into this meeting and you know it was just like super annoying you became that running board didn't you I can just yeah I had like a four pack abdominals and everything, right? Then I had kids, completely stopped running. And that ended. That ended. Yeah. Then I was like running on the school road, like out of breath, couldn't handle just running down the road. And then I picked it all back up again in lockdown because I was just like, can't be with my husband all day and have to find a place. Very familiar with one yeah I mean like one hour a day I was like yes please yes please um it's a great me time thing that's why I love it because it's the only

time when no one can come with you yeah and also quite nice like I'll put my headphones on and do a podcast and then no work people can contact me I'll listen to something you know um I couldn't do half marathons now I'm too old and tired but like 10k I could do yeah and I think it is great for catching up on podcasts isn't it like I can I now can't imagine running to music like I need to listen to fortunately or whatever it is that I'm listening to that day yeah I don't I don't listen to music because I I sadly now like the wiggles and I like frozen and stuff like that now and that's what we listen to in the car with the kids but when I'm on my own it's like educational podcasts for

research for work um sometimes it's audiobooks sometimes it's funny stuff just anything grown up and interesting that's my time anything that isn't let it go is what you're trying to tell us I do like Disney that's the set that would be my preferred choice of music now I'm brainwashed how old are your kids Katie tell us how old they are and tell us a bit about them so two daughters eldest is six that's Belle um she was six in March and then my youngest I always call her my baby but she's getting so heavy she's not my baby it's really depressing um she's called P and she's going to be three at Christmas I still have the sling I keep the sling and I'm like she's definitely can't go in the sling anymore she's toilet trained she uses a dummy and a muslin at

night which I secretly like because that feels babyish yeah my five-year-old still has a muslin at night and she calls it that's fine zazie's are allowed she'll always be your baby though even when she's 60 and you're 90 she'll still be your baby i know but like this she's even like she still lays on my chest in the breastfeeding chair to rock her to sleep which is good um but i'm really scared it's starting to go and all the other baby stuff stopping have another one katie There's only one solution. I want to, but I'm not allowed to apparently. Oh, really? Why?

Well, because it's too expensive and we've just got our lives back and we're both working and they're at school and nursery and yeah, and our grandparents are all... You're like, blah, blah, blah, not listening, not listening. I mean, I'd be happy if we had another one I would because I just feel like you know you've got two why not have ten yes well there's there's quite a few reasons Katie but we probably won't go into that you won't get your four pack back after ten that's for sure

no I'm fine with that it's okay now leading on from talking about your kids I know that beautiful is probably your most famous book but I'm very taken with from mother to daughter the things I tell my child was that very hard to write like it makes me emotional just thinking about it was it a struggle to have to kind of think in that way yeah it was quite sad some of it and some of it was actually hilarious because my mum's a retired school teacher and she's super blunt. And so we did it all on email. So we'd write our manuscript and send it to each other, kind of chapter by chapter, so we could read each other's. And she would send me her copy and it was stuff I didn't know. I didn't know she'd felt like that. I didn't know she'd felt like that I didn't know she'd witnessed that um I felt a bit guilty with some of it um and so I'd be like in tears reading it and then I'd send a mime which was super loaded and charged with emotion and she'd just reply like a one-liner

so you've written eight books and you don't know the grammatical difference between your and your you don't even deserve a publishing deal honestly like oh my god mum it doesn't matter thanks mum like 2018 we just have like editors and like autocorrect it's fine but yeah you're telling me that i don't know the difference between there and there mum classic mum but yeah now i i don't want to lower the tone but i often think yeah um I would like to sit and write down all of my valuable life tips for my kids in case I was hit by a bus or you never know what's going to happen, right? Good planning. Yeah, I like to plan ahead for these things.

Wendy will tell you about that. Now, my top tip for flow is always buy a pair of knickers in a size too big because life's too short to wear uncomfortable underwear. That was a tip that someone once gave me, and I think it's a very good rule to live by but if I then try and think of anything more profound I kind of get a bit stuck do you feel pressure to be profound because something traumatic happened to you I've heard you say that being seen as an inspiration can sometimes feel a bit difficult and it's a bit of an unrealistic pedestal to put you on yeah and do you know what also it's always well-meaning and it's a bit of an unrealistic pedestal to put you on.

Yeah. And do you know what? Also, it's always well-meaning and it's not meant to be condescending or patronising. But the trouble is, it's sort of like when you applaud a woman for being confident, it's almost as if you're saying she shouldn't be

because she doesn't fit. Yes, it's like a backhanded compliment. It is. Yeah, it's like, you know, if I dress a certain way and they're like good on you and you're so confident in your skin and you're like well are you saying I shouldn't be then and it perpetuates this idealistic like only a certain type of woman should feel good about herself or should be out there putting herself out there and the rest of

us should just be ashamed and if we're not bloody hell isn't that amazing you know it's kind of it's difficult I suppose we're not quite there in like elevating each other. And it's meant to be encouraging, isn't it? You're so right, it is. But it often feels patronising rather than encouraging. And it's hard for my kids. I mean, oh my God, can you imagine what it's going to be like when they're older? They're going to be like, mum, stop talking about your boring old books.

And when you got burnt, like your stupid, boring story, don't care. I'm not going to get burnt like you. You know, that's how it's going to feel because I'm their mum you know it's just don't really want to ram that down their throat like they know what I do they understand some well the youngest probably doesn't but the eldest does and she doesn't really see me as an inspiration because everyone sees their mum as just a mum aren't you yes I was going to say no have you spoken I know your littlest is your baby and too small but does your oldest know what's happened and understand or you just mum I need you to wipe my

bum a bit of both like yeah I mean it's always been there I thought she's always seen me having surgery she's seen me with dressings and bandages and stuff um I mean it's quite funny like when I was on Strictly she wasn't supporting me she Dr. Ange and I was just a bit like, here's my competition. But, you know, good to know. But yeah, she doesn't support Dr. Ange, if we're all honest about it. Tough, tough crowd. But yeah. Yeah. So she totally gets what's happened to me and she talks to me about it. She also asks me questions, which is really good.

She's really inquisitive and she's really bold in her questioning. So she can articulate it to other people, what happened to me. So I think that's good and that's important. And there's no big reveal. Like she's always understood and grown up. That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

I prefer that, I think. I doubt she'd even be interested in reading my books to be honest I know like I said to my son the other day oh another episode of the podcast is done he's like really yeah exactly yeah okay whatever well I was saying to the guys before we started recording that my nine-year-old was totally non-plus by the fact we were recording and just annoyed it meant she couldn't use Netflix because we needed the wife. Classic, yeah, that's our level of security. But that's how you want it to be though, isn't it? You want to be normal old mum.

You don't want to be a superhero really, do you? No, and also I feel like it's an unnecessary pressure on your children. They don't have to do what you do or achieve what you achieve and their idea of success might be completely different and so be it. Good for them. Yeah. Now, one of the questions we normally ask our guests is to tell us about their births and which of them was the most memorable and obviously we'd like to hear that from you as well but something else that

I'm kind of intrigued by is obviously you've had so many operations and medical procedures over the years did that add an extra layer of stress to being pregnant and all of the medical appointments you have to have because you're pregnant anyway that must have seen no was it was it quite reassuring to be doing something a bit more normal medically yeah I mean people are going to hate me for saying it but it was a walk in the park I've never done yeah I mean I suppose at first it was alien concept because I'd only go to hospital for really horrific procedures and bad news um and the midwife appointments were bizarre like you'd go they'd open your notes be nice to you tell you nice things shut the notes and that'd be it and I'd

was that it and they're like yeah okay I remember I used to have to take like a half day off work and go I'd go I'd wee in a pot and they'd go that's nice and then you know now I'd be like I've really I've taken a half day to wean a pot yeah so great you know I'm literally used to having terrible news of you're going to have to live with this and yeah your eyesight's never going to come back and this and you're wearing this for three years you know and you know and having to sit in the car park and like digest it all and that just you know nothing ever happened like that and actually I know that's a privilege because some people do have incredibly difficult pregnancies and some really terrible things to absorb and things don't always work out the way you planned but I was fortunate that you know I mean I had problems because I've got scar tissue internally so I did

have problems and I had a um I kind of knew this would happen. I had to have C-section with both births, but not emergency. It was what they recommended sort of midway through the pregnancy. And how did they go? Did you, did you enjoy your birth? Did you find them difficult? What stands out? I suppose really easy because I've had quite a lot of abdominal surgery before and it's been really horrific and it's been emergency. And, you know I wasn't able to eat for two years I was on a peg where I had to be injected with um fluids and

calories rather than eating solids and I had problems in my teeth after that so to have abdominal surgery to get a baby at the end rather than just bio and sick was really great yeah and you know like when you google cesarean and people can't stand up quite i was just like no that it was such a tiny scar compared to all my other scars yeah you know i stood up i discharged myself that next day i didn't even find that the aftermath of the pain that bad compared to like skin grafts and stuff so and in some ways did it restore confidence in your body that your body could do something utterly brilliant after you'd had so much tough crap to wade through no because I already had that from from surviving the acid attack you know okay no but but I did think like isn't this

genuinely beautiful like you know we band around the word beautiful and what does it mean and it's like isn't this amazing that you make this and there's no imperfections and it's so innocent and I think I did find that a little bit overwhelming of when they let you go home and you're like oh it's mine and it's up to me and oh my god not with second child but with first child it's just like oh my god like you don't don't you sign something because there's any insurance are you sure no one's gonna come with us like yeah like yeah you should probably come back with us i can't even set up like a skybox i lose my mobile phone how am i gonna not lose a baby always joke where's the manual but it really is that feeling of you get i remember getting in the car and shutting the door and I was just sitting there with this person in the back going oh shit now yeah and driving so

slow I don't over speed yeah so funny I know and then we did like weird stuff like we were so inexperienced on the first like we kept her in a Moses basket and carried her around so we have to get a coffee we'd carry the Moses basket into the kitchen get the coffee carry her back and then like we'd leave in the Moses basket till 11 at night we're watching telly staring at her we could actually put her upstairs in the cot and let her sleep poor thing because we had no routine or structure we just like just did whatever and just stared at her constantly whereas if the second one was completely different um but yeah there's like a little bit of shock maybe at first actually when we're home I think yeah I think that's pretty normal I was

going to ask if your trauma recovery and having to get to grips with so much that you weren't in control of stood you in good stead for life as a new mum because let's face it none of us are in control of any of that stuff when it's happening. I'm imagining, well, I was imagining until about three minutes ago that you took it all in your stride and didn't sweat the small stuff, but then you started talking about skyboxes. So I'm not sure. Yeah. I mean, do you know what? I just never thought I would have a boyfriend ever again, that basic. I never thought I would have sex ever again so I never even got to thinking I would be a mum I really didn't even fantasize about it because I just felt like it's closed to me don't even bother to fantasize or ponder or anything so once I was holding her I was just like wow

this is so surreal you know the pessimist in me was like she might die she might get taken away from me because other things like that have happened to me bad things have happened to me maybe they'll happen again and sometimes that crept in sometimes like do I deserve this is it going to get taken away and that was quite horrible experience sometimes thinking that is when my husband had gone back to work I'd think things like that when I was on my own but then I you know when I've looked at forums and read other people's experience who haven't had other traumas they have had those moments where that has clouded them as well so yeah it sounds really awful doesn't it to think that but I just think terrible things I think I think it's a sign of how precious something is to you if you start to become

preoccupied with losing it I think that's really natural I think you're right you know like crazy intrusive thoughts when you're like going to baby sensory and you decide to walk and you're like what if a car hits the buggy yeah it's just really weird then you're like I'm crazy I'm crazy let's stop at Costa and let's stop being crazy let's have another latte I remember I used to work with a woman who when she had her first her husband would say goodbye kiss and goodbye in the morning and then she'd be so terrified to carry the baby down the stairs that she would just stay in their bedroom all day oh I get that I do get that I completely get that at the time I didn't have kids and I thought you crackerjack woman what are you going on about and now I'm like I completely get that of course that makes sense it's such a big responsibility but i remember the first time i went to see you

annie because katie annie and i had our children by some miraculous fate of divine intervention eight hours and nothing else apart eight hours to the minute apart her son and my daughter and so we met up when they were like five weeks old and i just remember going into london see her and being utterly paralyzed with fear that i was going to do something or drop Chloe on the train or just leave her on the tube. Totally get that yeah yeah but then it's so different second time around don't you think? Oh god the second one just got laid on the living room floor while we got what I hoovered around her while she was on the floor. And it's like you just go out and about meeting friends wearing like leaking everywhere and you're fine you might even wear like a pale trouser and you're just like

and with the first one you're so paranoid about routines and you know you've got to let them sleep the second one you're like oh you're breathing good right off we go yeah it's so and also I was really conscious because like Belle you know my first um I was kind of obsessed with her she was on a pedestal light of our lives and. And I always felt worried, pregnant, will I love the second one as much? That was a genuine, and my mum was like, no, no, no, no, you just do, don't worry, it's fine. And I was like, you sure, you sure?

And then as soon as she was born, I was like, okay, I get it. Love them both equally. Yes, I forgot that feeling. I forgot that. But when P arrived, I was so worried about making Belle feel pushed out because she'd been my golden girl you know and we got all these books done with like I'm a big sister my name's Belle all personalized and stuff and we got the big sister t-shirt and pajamas and Belle was fine

she wasn't jealous at all like she's probably only started being jealous now when they're sort of like actually play together and snatch off each other and stuff like that that means you did something right we are really okay that's good because I never know I never know I'm just like looking it all up well I just think other mums we need to pick each other up because our kids are never going to turn around and say oh thanks mummy you did such a great job today that we have to pat each other on the back when it sounds like it's going right now obviously I know you don't want to be put on a pedestal but you have kind of become this kind of icon for survivors and um kind of a beacon of resilience are you grateful and then I just sounds dreadful not are you grateful for what happened to you but are you

grateful for the place you're in now and how enlightened and positive and together you feel? I'm grateful for the people in my life because I believe it's the support network you have that enables you because you know doing anything alone whether it's parenthood, careers, mental health, physical, medical recoveries it is about the friends, family and the professionals so yeah no doubt without the people that were in my life now wouldn't be who I am today um but no I don't I don't ever have to look back on life events and think oh I'm grateful for those because that that's not how I believe you know I think it is blood sweat and tears and it is grit and determination that gets you where you are

so I don't again I don't believe in luck so I wouldn't say oh I feel lucky I feel like you know if I want something in life I go out and get it and I and I work hard and so do the people around me so has becoming a mum made it harder in a way in that you can see what it must have been like for your mum to go through to see you suffer and we know that she tells you off about your grandma but the idea of seeing my little girl go through anything even a tenth of what you went through as a mum that must just kill you now yeah yeah I mean even just like when I was on maternity leave with the first child I was at home for the first few weeks and I just kind of like text my mum. Oh, God, you know, like me as a teenager. Really sorry about that now.

Like all the cider and the cigarettes and the jumping out the window and the boyfriend when I was 14 and really sorry about that. I understand now. And then, yeah, like looking back on everything that she saw me go through as a young adult, like felt so bad, so guilty, like how traumatic, like almost how more traumatic for her than me, because there's visuals that she saw me in a coma that I didn't even see, you know, and I don't know how to cope if it was my child. And yeah, it was a whole other chapter in my life of realisation, guilt, sadness, admiration for my mum, in awe of my mum, realising how fortunate I am to have the mum that I have. Yeah. Yeah. I almost feel like you're kind of destined to have to have the parents that you have. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And my mum is like very stoic she's very firm she's typical British stiff upper lip

and sometimes when I was younger I used to get cross with my mum because she was so harsh and now I look back and be like it was the best mum for me my mum made me she's not gushy she's not weak she's very strong and it it really really helped me I wouldn't I wouldn't have been able to get through what I got through if I didn't have a mum like that. This might be a difficult question to answer, but how do you feel about the people who did this to you now? It's not something I think about. You know, like anyone that's read my self-help books knows that I'm this constantly talking about this present tense. You know, living in the past feels like depression.

Living in the future feels like anxiety. And I very much live this present tense you know living in the past feels like depression living in the future feels like anxiety and I very much live in present tense so it isn't something I'd go back and give a lot of thought to um you know there's so much going on in my life now to focus on I just don't really have the mental capacity and the headspace to put my energies into the past like that that's good I like that answer as I answered that my husband just walked in and brought me a glass of wine like well there you go there you go that's perfect now always want to bring things down and off your tear I'm going to stop talking about emotions and start talking about scented candles um first of all by the time this podcast is out for the whole world to listen to you'll have a new range of fragrance candle and diffuser in super drug if i'm right and you've also added another

string to your bow you've got a beauty range which is lovely because it feels like it's almost full circle you were a model and you suffered your injuries and now you're back doing something you did before so tell us about your new stuff please yeah it's interesting I mean it was a business venture I started two years ago because it's quite a long process so years I mean a long long time ago my actual qualification was as a beauty therapist and I studied aromatherapy so I kind of understand all about different top notes base notes and what different plants and remedies can do. And I wanted to bring something to market that was around self-care. You know, all the different items have affirmations and different emotions and words kind of affiliated to them. And when lockdown happened, obviously, a lot of my kind of work got halted and business partners and people I was

working with had delays on production and one of the things I thought I could do whilst I was in lockdown was read a daily affirmation every day taken from my affirmation book and it was kind of built this community and my dms and all my stories of sharing quotes and self-care techniques and practices of one another and I only really have female followers the only men that follow me are gay like no one fancies me no male love at all uh which is fine um yeah we just built this community and it was really timely because I thought okay I'm bringing this stuff out and it is all around self-care and sometimes you know when you're a mum self-care can't be a weekend at a spa it literally can't it just isn't isn't it it's getting to go to the loo by yourself without someone asking you for something one of

my mom friends is whatsapping us from a super duper spa this evening and nobody is replying with anything under the sun yeah fuming you know sometimes self-care for me literally is oh sat on the edge of the bed tonight and put on some foot cream and let it absorb that sounds pretty rock and roll yeah because normally i can't let it absorb i have to run across the carpet get fluff all in it to go and like you know pick someone's teddy it fell out the cot you know um so yeah there's there's a whole different range of all these affirmations different products and stuff to get people to treat themselves buy it for other women you know as little gifts stocking fillers just to take a moment and say you know I can actually do something for myself and for me as a businesswoman I really loved I went to the factory I was involved in the

mixology I was involved in sourcing stuff the design the packaging and you know everyone when they interview me and talk to me primarily they want to talk to me about me being attacked and I'm like do you know what I've got so many other skills and talents and things that I did before I was burnt and that I can bring to market and work on and do and working in a team and business like this is what I really enjoy and what I'm really good at. And in my mind, that's what defines me and that's who I am. So to be working on this project, again, it does go back to what I'm passionate about, but people wouldn't necessarily associate me with that. I think it's good to keep people guessing and let them be a bit surprised by you sometimes. Absolutely.

So this is going to bring me to my last question for you, which is Katie Piper, how do you want to be remembered? If you have to go down in history for anything, is it as Bell and Pease mum? Is it as this person who gave a face to strength and resilience and paved the way for others to see a way forward through difficult times? Or is it something completely unexpected? Is it to climb Everest? And we just haven't heard that about you yet. No, no way. I just like to drink wine. I can't care less.

No, it's going to, I don't know how to articulate this without sounding big headed or worthy. But I want to be remembered for making a change and a movement around the way we view people that are visibly different um because you know in the first instance when journalists would talk to me it was well what are you going to do now now you look different how are you ever going to feel attractive are you going to get married what will you do for a living and it was really sad that what um not being symmetrical and having scarred skin and having a funny eye means to the world,

because actually you can be sexy, you can be the CEO, you can be a trailblazer, you can be the person who everyone wants to buy the dress that you wore. And I find it really sad that in Western society, they just feel like there's so many limits placed on you because you don't fit these idealistic standards and I'm not saying that I'm the trailblazer but I was burnt 12 years ago and now in 2020 we do see people like me advertising shampoo we do see girls in underwear adverts with scars and Instagram is changing you can follow loads of pages where you see a wide variety of different bodies different race different shapes sizes skin textures and it's so bloody good and I really hope that yeah it's really good and like being a mother of daughters like there is positive places for them on the internet there is safe spaces there is freedom to be different and for it to be aspirational because when I was at school we just fundraised

for people like me in assembly and that was where it stopped and I think it's changing I think you know girls ask me where I got my hair scrunchy from and what shade of lipstick I'm wearing and my lips were rebuilt from the skin off my groin and I'm so happy they want to wear the same matte lipstick as me I love that of all the places hairy lips yeah really hairy brilliant now Katie we always ask our guests this question as we round up the pod and it sounds a bit weird but basically what we want you to do is imagine you're tucking Annie and I into bed and sing us your family lullaby. Oh my God. You're going to absolutely hell.

I'm going to sound like a real crazy person now. We actually sing religious songs at night. So they've got this kid's prayer book of Amazon's. They do a prayer. And then we've got this favourite song that we sung at my wedding. We sing it in the car and stuff. Do I really have to sing it? Yeah, go on.

We're all ears. I'm lying down go on okay world exclusive this could end up being a single in the future of collaboration yes right how great is our god sing with me how great how great is our god he's the name of all things great. He is worthy of our praise. And my heart will sing how great is our God. For the kids sing it back to me we sing it together it's so gorgeous i love that well i feel very relaxed now i could go to sleep are you asleep i want a christmas songs of praise album next christmas please yes labellation like backing vocals maybe okay yeah or we can click our fingers at least i think that's about as far as i need. I can go. No, that's really kind. Cause all you want me to do is click my fingers. Trust me.

Oh dear. That's just lovely. I get no punks when I watch songs of praise. So there we go. I want your album. Christmas 2021. We'd like an album of songs. No pressure.

No pressure. No pressure at all. Well, Katie, thank you so much. Thank thank you it was lovely to spend my Friday night with you I really enjoyed it now go and enjoy those fish and chips get them while they're warm I will do take care thanks