The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep14: Ella Mills: when food's your life but pregnancy stops you eating

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

Listen as Annie and Wendy chat all things parenting with Ella Mills (aka healthy eating and food guru Deliciously Ella). From being too sick to eat in pregnancy, when food is your livelihood, to why adult nappies beat maternity pads hands down.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary and I'm Wendy Gollage and together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments with guests who are far more interesting than we are. Okay Wendy, today we've got someone very fun on the podcast who we can ask all of our food questions and who we can ask all of our about to have a baby any minute questions. We have Ella Mills. Morning Ella. Good morning. How are you both? We're good. How are you? You're pregnant. I am very pregnant and I am very well thank you. Good, good, good. So our podcast is called Sweat, Snot and Tears and always the first question is any sweat snot or tears in

your house this morning do you know what I am absolutely so happy to tell you no because we've had a lot of tears um Skye who's my little one who's uh 13 months now she had her first year jabs like two weeks ago and they just seemed to drag on yeah the repercussions just seem to drag on forever and ever and ever and we had like 10 days where she just was not a very happy bunny and she's been so happy the last like three days and it just feels like a miracle the relief when they stop being foul because the jabs are just the worst thing ever they always just make them so grouchy don't they they're horrendous absolutely horrendous um so now the no tears is just oh the appreciation is is really really high

am i right you're 36 weeks pregnant so there must be a touch of sweat going on if you're 36 well i have to say i haven't left the house yet today I've just been waddling up and down the stairs so um so far no but I am absolutely sure there will be later Skye was born at 38 weeks is that right so you think you really don't have long to go yeah it feels like that I mean she feels so low and so ready I'm kind of slightly terrified but um, it feels like she's probably going to come see us quite soon. Um, which is just, it's, I don't know, there's a kind of surreal nature to, to that. So I guess, especially it feels that second time round, cause first time around, you don't really know what's coming and second time around, you've got more of a sense of that. And there's just this,

I can't quite get my head around the fact that we're going to have this tiny little girl here in a couple of weeks. you know the sex already yes we do we I have to say my husband and I both like phenomenally impatient and love to know everything and I have such respect for people who have the patience not to know immediately but it's just not us. I managed it the first time but the second time my little girl said she didn't want the baby if it was a brother so we had to find out to give ourselves 20 weeks to prepare her had it been a brother which thankfully it wasn't. Oh my gosh that's absolutely amazing luckily Skye's too young I mean she's only 13 months so she hasn't got a clue we keep telling

her that there's a baby coming but she literally has no idea whatsoever but you're gonna have two under two ella like my mind just fries at that thought how ready are you mine fries a little bit too if i'm honest it's also it's not even two under two it's two under 14 months i mean it's also it's not even two under two it's two under 14 months I mean it's like kind of it's not quite Irish twins my granny had Irish twins my mum and her brother are only 10 and a half months apart and so when I told my granny she was like well you did better than me it's funny though because when you speak to people who have had multiple kids but not that close together they say to you oh my goodness me do you have any idea what you're in for but then if you speak to people who have done it where

they're really really really close in age they all say the beginning you know those first six months are really tough which I don't not believe for a second I'm sure they're going to be really tough but then they have all said that then it gets actually then incredible and it makes it a lot easier in many ways because they are so close together they can just entertain each other so brilliantly and play together so brilliantly and want to do the same things so I'm kind of keeping my fingers crossed that that is the case so you're hunkering down for six months that you know you're just gonna have to be head down get on with it and then hopefully it'll all be brilliant nice and easy that's what I'm going for yeah tell us about your birth with Skye and are you looking forward to your birth this time did you have a good birth are you excited well I mean I'm very interested in the human body and how it works. And so I became completely fixated by like

the anatomy and biology of birth when I was pregnant first time around. And I wanted to learn everything and understand like how all the hormones work and what that impacts on. And, and I really enjoyed the process of learning all about it. And I became quite interested in hypnobirthing as a result and did a course in that. Then decided, which I never ever expected to do a home birth with a paddling pool in our guest room, basically. It's such a weird one to describe because don't get me wrong. It was, you know, by a million miles, the hardest thing I've ever done on a physical level it's just like a challenge like no other but then it was really amazing at the same time and it was incredibly calm and we kept it really really dark and had like very calming music and my husband I have to say he did the hypnobirthing course with me and learned a lot about it. And he was absolutely

unbelievable. And he like breathed through every single contraction and really was just like the best kind of support and guide. And it felt like an amazing kind of intimate bonding experience. And then she arrived in the pool and it was really intense but incredible I would say so I kind of I don't know if I look forward to it again but I think I think I feel good about doing it again if that makes sense yeah that does make sense you had a doula last time didn't you can you tell us about that I did which my husband was like what on earth is that what is going on and I was like no no no just trust me on this one and um yeah I have to say it was um a few friends had done it and recommended it and I found it really amazing and I remember when I when we met her and my husband said to her

he was like look I hope you don't find this offensive. But like, what on earth is a doula? Like, what does a doula do? Why? Why would you be there? And she basically said, you know, women have, you know, traditionally always, you know, really support each other in birth. And she was like, you know, think of it like everyone used to live in a village together and, you know, people's aunts and grandparents and mums and cousins and neighbours would have attended many, many, many births of all their children and their children's children and their cousins' children. And they're there, it's like a really reassuring presence of someone who knows, you know, who's been there before and is able to kind of offer like an emotional kind of female support and kind of help you through those really really tough moments in a way that I think

sometimes it's hard for a partner because obviously it's brand new for them as well and they don't know what on earth's going on and actually I really really really found that and she really helped with the breathing and the calm for me I feel like that really helped us have a relatively short relatively easy experience and will you be having a doula this time as well I think so I think so yeah you think so so you've not quite decided yet or you're well the lady who we work with our time who was just absolutely amazing she's moved away down to Somerset now she's not in London anymore so we are just thinking whether or not we meet someone else obviously like tomorrow yeah exactly I know it just sneaks up on you the end of pregnancy doesn't

it because I feel like the beginning is so slow it's like an eternity and then suddenly you're like ready to pop so you are on a conversation with two women who spent their entire pregnancies with their heads down literally the whole pregnancy have you had as a horrific a time or are you one of those lucky people who sails through pregnancy the two have been so different i sky's pregnancy was who's my daughter it was horrendous i actually really weirdly I literally can't be sick I can count on one hand the number of times I've been sick in my whole life and yeah but which actually I found really frustrating I would just stand over the loo gagging and retching and coughing and all I wanted was like to be sick and I just I literally can't be sick. It's very, very weird. Anyway,

I was so tired. It was like an exhaustion like I'd never experienced before. I literally felt like I couldn't move my arm. I felt so nauseous, like even the smell of pretty much any food that wasn't like bread or a potato made me wretch, made me gag. I just couldn't even. So familiar. Yeah. Literally, it was horrendous and it lasted so long. And I just felt exhausted the whole pregnancy. I had really bad like cankles and swelling and aches and pains. And I worked, we were saying at the beginning when we were chatting, I worked up until like 10 o'clock the night before she was born. And I was just just I just pushed myself really hard in the pregnancy and I think it was it was not easy I didn't find any of it easy emotionally or physically but this time around I had no idea that I was pregnant and didn't have any I mean I had a little bit of nausea and a bit of exhaustion

but it was like in comparison I mean it was like crippling last of nausea and a bit of exhaustion, but it was like incomparable. I mean, it was like crippling last time. The idea of like sitting in a restaurant or eat, you know, making dinner, it just was not going to happen. I just couldn't eat the thought of socializing or like, yeah, sitting at a dinner table with people. And this time around, it was really quite normal, minus a few like, oh, don't quite fancy that. Like, you know, it was so quite normal minus a few like oh don't quite fancy that like you know it was so easy and manageable and I think I actually asked and I have no idea if this is true but I was convinced that it must be a boy because it was so different and when I went for our scan and found out it was a girl and I said oh I was really surprised and uh the lady who was doing the scan

said oh why and I said I was convinced it was a boy because it's just been so different I've just felt so different I've actually just felt so much better and she said oh we see that quite often when you have pregnancies really close together because oh I was actually just finishing breastfeeding when I got pregnant so I was still had all those hormones and things in my body and so she said often when that's the case you don't get the effects as badly because your body's not going from like a standing start in the same way we went wrong Annie we left it too long we did so I'm fascinated Ella with the with the first pregnancy with all the sickness and not wanting or feeling sick rather and not wanting to

kind of eat or cook dinner as a foodie how did that affect how you felt about yourself and how you felt about life it was really hard because I literally couldn't do my job especially to begin with you know I didn't really want to tell people so much that with my first time around until we'd got that 12 week scan it was so hard because obviously like my job is is eating and my job is cooking and my job is tasting things and I literally couldn't and that was a really difficult thing to manage I was actually very lucky in the timing because I got pregnant in kind of mid-November and so by the time it had got really bad at like four or five weeks it was Christmas time so things were a bit quieter and it was a lot easier to kind of sneak out the office

and um do things at home and then obviously you know lots of people were way over Christmas and that really helped me out I don't know what I would have done without that um but it was really really challenging and actually I have to say I was really really really nervous about getting pregnant again because I was like I can't take like that much of a step back again and so actually it was a massive relief that it didn't happen because I was really really really nervous about nervous about it. Yeah, because it's your whole life. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, if you love what you do and you love your job,

not really being able to do it and certainly not being able to do it well is really challenging. Yeah, the reason I stopped at two and didn't go for a third was I had hyperemesis with my second. Yeah. And the toll that that took on all of our lives was just it's it was so huge I can't even I couldn't even contemplate going through that again no one tells you this stuff beforehand do they no which is probably a good thing yeah in a way I don't know it's a good or

bad I think it's good in the sense that otherwise it's sort of too petrifying a thought. But I can't imagine. I'm so sorry you had that. I must, you know, it's a long time, your pregnancy. It felt like 52 years. I bet. At one point, my husband, I think he thought for a little while that I wasn't really as sick as I was making out. And then I came out of the bathroom and he was like, what happened to your face? So what do you mean what happened to my face? And I'd burst all of the blood vessels around my eyes because I'd been so badly sick.

And I think after that, he did think, OK, maybe she really is quite poorly with this. It's just grim. I think it's so hard for a guy to understand that i think any woman who's been pregnant has an appreciation of the fact that you know obviously there's there's such a sliding scale but it is really hard and um even just like being achy and you know like niggly in your body and you know getting the like swellings and all the rest of it it's a lot and i think it's really hard to appreciate if you haven't done it so what's your go-to food for those of us who are not brilliant foodies most of our lives it's usually

a Snickers or ice cream but please tell me that yours is something wholesome and good for you what pregnancy cravings yeah so again this time around I haven't really had any it's just been so different I can't explain it first time around I had so many and so some really random ones but the first like 18 weeks 16 18 weeks or so I literally could only eat like potatoes and bread that was it and every kind of potato so like mash boiled roast chips um crisps and then bread toast just give me carbs yeah and even like pasta sometimes felt like it had too much flavor like it was literally like the plainest plainest thing and i remember there was one day where i was like i need mashed potatoes and I was like I don't have any potatoes in the house and I was like this is ridiculous like

just eat pasta like surely that will give you the same kick no made the pasta it literally nothing has ever been less satisfying in my life I just sat there just thinking about mashed potatoes and I was like right that's it I've got to go and get potatoes and I felt so ill and so tired but I was like it doesn't matter I need potatoes like I must get them and it's just it's a bit weird isn't it how you just get like fixations with things and you're like no if I don't have that like I won't be okay mine was hula hoops oh really if I felt sick the only thing I could eat was hula hoops and I could eat them one about every 10 minutes. One at a time.

Oh, Wendy. The body's bonkers, isn't it? It is. The body is bonkers. The only thing I could keep down when I had the hyperemesis, this is so random, was the dough out of a bagel. Oh, independent, but not the outside. Not the outside.

No other bread. Sometimes I couldn't keep down water. But weirdly that I could cope with. It's really strange, isn't it? Really strange. It just shows that pregnancy is such a... It literally overtakes your whole body, doesn't it? It's not a minor thing.

Oh my God, no. Tell us about Skye and her eating. Is she a good eater? eater mother has just been the best lesson in like letting go of any preconceived ideas or expectations because obviously like i love cooking that's what i do and so i was so excited to start weaning oh i just couldn't wait and she literally hated food for the first like three or four months i mean yeah just it's she is and now and the more i've got to know her and understand like her kind of innate personality the more now everything makes sense she really really didn't get into breastfeeding either she's like the only

child i've ever heard of that even at like two weeks old never fell asleep on the boob no mine did that too oh good i'm very glad to hear it and even like after when she was about three weeks old she decided that she wouldn't go in the bassinet bit of the buggy because she couldn't see what was going on and she screamed like you were trying to kill her every time you put her in i tried her in other people's buggies i've tried putting things in the buggies it wasn't that it was the fact that it had sides and it was like a bassinet and she just needed to be able to see so she was like the smallest child that ever went in like a big size buggy and she's just like she needs to be part of the world and she needs to do everything herself she's like the most fiercely independent child ever and I had thought oh well you know what I'll do some food for her

and then we'll do some baby lead and no that was not an option she would only do baby lead and as a result she just didn't really eat anything until she was like 10 months or so basically because she couldn't do it herself and then she found that really annoying and so she could take like one bite and then that'd be it and she just wanted to be out and doing things and looking around and playing and exploring now that she's can feed herself and she is she's got really good at feeding herself she is now like a champion eater and she eats tons and she's really open-minded and she's like willing to try most things now we're in a great spot with it but yeah it was just a great lesson in like letting go of expectations but all our

like baby whatsapp group from you know nct class like everyone was like yeah my baby's eating like two bowls of porridge and then they're having this and then they're having that and i was like oh my gosh sky's literally not eating any food mine didn't either she didn't eat anything proper until she was like one yeah she was scared of spoons I couldn't go anywhere near her with a spoon so you just have to put stuff in front of them and let them get on with it but that's such a leap of faith because you don't think they're getting any actual goodness totally and it's it's I find it's so hard when you know even though you're trying not to it's impossible not to compare where you're at with other people

I was going to ask you about that I was going to say did you feel kind of judged because you're known for being a foodie and loving food and loving cooking and preparing food did you find that difficult? Other people looking on and seeing her not eat as much or whatever? Yeah. And I was like, wait, this is the also it's that thing where you're like, but this is meant to be the thing that I'm good at. Like, why can't I make this work? It was a great lesson. And also, as you just said, like in kind of like being patient and trusting it and like just waiting and and taking their lead and I've really realized that with her like if you follow her and take her lead things work if you don't they don't work

that's quite a hard thing for to let go of isn't it really hard so much easier said than done having to sit on your hands all the time exactly it you don't I think maybe that's one of the biggest shocks though they come out with a personality and a mind of their own and a way that they want to do things and you're you think oh but they're just a baby they can't possibly know what they want but by god do they know what they want even from them like you say from a three-week-old who didn't want to be in a bassinet 1000% and that is something I think I didn't expect and wasn't really ready for yeah I assumed that like they would be like two before that was the case certainly not at this age and she's still like that now and she's now

we just put up some bookshelves in her room and now every time you walk into the room she starts squealing and yelling and pointing at the books until you've literally taken every book off the shelf so you are praised and we praised you too for being incredibly candid with your pictures of motherhood on instagram why do you think it's so important to tell it like it is? Do you know what pregnancy and like postpartum and generally motherhood, but especially those like, you know, that kind of fourth trimester, those first few months afterwards, it's such a sensitive topic. And I so appreciate that, you know, it's so nuanced and it's so emotional. And

there's, you know, one thing I felt was just, I was just really shocked by the reality of, of both. And there's even stuff like just when you're pregnant, it's just like a lot of bodily fluids, you know, it's just like all these things. He just didn't, I just didn't know that. And I think part of the reason is because it's obviously such a blessing and it's such a difficult journey for so many people there's a fear of saying anything negative about it for fear of not being seen as grateful or appreciative of something and I totally get it but I think as a result it sometimes kind of hampers the conversation and it makes people feel quite alone I think it's just it's really important, I think, for us to be honest. And I definitely was quite surprised after birth just by like, how up and down it was and how hard breastfeeding was. And you know, the fact that

like, really, the only thing that made sense to wear was an adult nappy for about three weeks. And, you know, and I have to say someone recommended the adult nappies instead of pads, and it was the best recommendation I've ever had in my life. And I would say to anyone, go get them. That is an excellent tip. Oh my God, it's the best. Adult nappies, chocolates, paracetamol. They're the three things you need.

Yeah, adult nappies are everything. Literally everything. You know we're going to quote you on this, don't you? You know, it is is it is a lot and I just think it's really easy to think that everyone else has it together and some moments you do feel like you're kind of semi getting it together and then there's other moments where you just don't even a tiny bit but I think there's a lot of fear of judgment as well in this space and I certainly felt that as well and I think you know especially I was actually having dinner last night with three girlfriends one of whom's

due in three days and one of whom's having another baby in January but she's got an 18 month old and we were talking about this and we were all saying like I don't think I've ever come across a topic as emotionally charged as breastfeeding like I don't think politics compares I don't think talking about Donald Trump compares like breastfeeding seems to bring out this emotional reaction in people that makes it the most divisive topic I think I've ever had a conversation about oh absolutely we know that if we post a story on breastfeeding that world war three will break out so we avoid it at all costs yeah but that's what i think's really sad and i look i'm i'm the same like i'm totally with you on that but it's i guess that's all kind of i don't know why we do it i don't know why we have

to be so kind of rabid with each other about these sorts of topics it feels like the time in our lives where we need to be the most gentle and understanding of one another in the world and yet it's the time that we're the least to some extent and it's just feels really sad but baby's parenthood in general seems to elicit in people this belief that everyone is allowed to have an opinion about your decisions in a way that no one would think to comment about your decisions in other parts of your life but they think little ladies think it's perfectly all right to come up to you in the street and tell you you're doing something wrong with your baby I know and the other thing added to that

is that everyone thinks that how they've done it is right and that everybody else's way is wrong. It overtakes people's brains. Totally. And I think my frustration was like, the way that you've done it is right for you. And it might be wrong for someone else, but it was right for you. And there's a reason you've made those decisions.

Or even you made mistakes. Maybe some of the things you did, you wouldn't do again or you would do differently last time that's the other thing it feels like part of the judgment comes from people not being willing to accept or to admit that they didn't get it all right 100% of the time yeah completely all things didn't work out in the way they wanted them to yeah and that's why maybe it becomes so emotive but it just it's interesting. And I remember equally on the other hand, like sharing some pictures like the Adonapi

and someone saying like, oh, this is so ridiculous over playing it. You know, my day didn't need anything like this. And I was just like, you know what? Good for you. I need this. Like, it hurts. That reminds me of,

I was once breastfeeding in an m&s cafe because that just happened to be the only person i could sit down at the time and um this elderly couple were walking towards me and the woman turned to the man and said oh for god's sake look they're all at it these days like it was some completely alien thing that i was doing Some new fad that we were all doing. Yeah, exactly. Do you feel extra judged because you're in the public eye, Ella? I don't know. I mean, yes and no.

I think generally, I think the other thing I would say is it's like a fascinating topic in the sense that I think I've never felt more judgment, but I've never felt more support. Yeah. Double edged sword. Yeah. I've never felt more people have said oh you know have you tried this oh this really helped me oh I so recommend this have you read this book I really loved this book oh I had this problem and I found this really helpful and I wondered it might help you and I just felt I felt a level of support and I remember the first time I kind of went a bit

further afield with Skye she must have been like three weeks old or so and we went to meet my sister-in-law who'd had a baby four weeks before us and it was just like 45 minutes away it wasn't like ages but it was that I hadn't really been anywhere apart from just like walking distance from our house and so you know we had to put her in the car seat and like pack a bag and then obviously we got there and we're in a park and she did like a massive poo in the middle of the park and you're trying to change her on a park bench and then she just wouldn't stop screaming and then she was hungry and we were having trouble with the latch and we're breastfeeding and trying to breastfeed in the park but couldn't get comfortable and she couldn't get comfortable and it was anyway and

I just walked off to the side and I literally just burst into tears. And this lovely lady came up to me and she was, you know, like, are you okay? She's like, I've had three. Look, you know, it's really tough. She looks really little. You know, don't worry. Can I get you anything? And, you know, she was just literally just so nice and reassuring and just said, you know, look, we've all been there. Everyone's been there.

I don't know. I just found it absolutely so reassuring and just said you know that we've all been there everyone's been there I don't know I just found it absolutely so reassuring and I just I have found it yeah it's just like a really fascinating split between the two where on the one hand there is a huge level of judgment and then on the other hand there's a level of like we're in it together I've been there let me help you and a kind of breaking down of barriers because you share so many more like intimate details and and emotional details with people than you probably do in normal life I also think that that's brilliant because I think you make faster friendships as a parent you get to the close bond quicker did either of you feel that oh for sure and i think it's exactly that which is that like you're not going to have barriers like there's no point at this

point and if you're going to be open about like what's happening with your child and this and that and look for the other person for support you're not going to beat around the bush and even like our baby whatsapp group from nct like it's so helpful. And people will be like, yeah, you know, we've had a nightmare too after first year jabs, fever, crying, fussiness, blah, blah, blah. And it's just a kind of complete like blank slate and an openness that I don't think you get normally. You know, people being like, I'm having a really bad day. It's been a really bad day. Anyone else have a really bad day? And I don't think we're normally that open with each other we're like yeah we're fine we're fine so Ella I have to ask you about Instagram comments whenever I speak to anyone who's got heaps of followers I'm always intrigued whether you read them or not because I just don't think I'm resilient enough I think I'd fall apart people are bats**t some of

the stuff they say must is so bonkers so do you eat them do you know what really what we post about is food and recipes and so it's like a pasta dish you know saute your aubergines with onion and garlic and so those comments absolutely because they're not personal and you know if they're personal it's like oh I don't like that picture or like I'm allergic to aubergines um what can I use instead oh you use too many mushrooms and I don't like that picture. Or like, I'm allergic to aubergines. What can I use instead? Oh, you use too many mushrooms and I don't like mushrooms. And so it's like, okay, that's fine. That's not offensive. And if someone doesn't like the aubergine pasta, that's okay as well. But whenever I post anything more personal, it's a really interesting one. Again, like the more personal the post, the better better it does but the much more kind of divisive it is and I remember yeah again after Skye was

born obviously I wasn't really cooking and I wasn't really developing recipes she was like four days old and it'd be a picture of Skye and it was like oh yeah just like acting as though you're the first person to ever give birth first person person to have a child. Oh no. Even, you know, that's even a tiny criticism, but like, it's just even little things like that, that you're just like, God, get a life, you know, what are you talking about? But because it's mostly kind of pretty neutral stuff

in the sense that it's like pasta or like a curry, it's fine. But anything that's kind of, yeah, more remotely personal is really really yeah people have so many opinions on and I I don't know how people do it I personally couldn't have a platform like a really personal platform because they would just kill me even like this summer we decided we were going to go away and we were going to travel and we went to Italy for a week and we felt really really safe and we wanted to take a bit of time

out before the baby came and and all the rest of it and oh my gosh I'm unfollowing you you're so irresponsible how could you take a child on a plane and there's a global pandemic it's so loaded but even you know just things like that that you just think okay yeah not gonna get into that with you and I just don't respond I just I was gonna say do you ever respond do you ever get tempted have a glass of wine and think right ladies let's have it I I used to and my husband was just like he's also my business partner and was he was just like yeah exactly and the thing that he said which I actually try and remind myself of and i think it's true is he was like why do you respond to like the few negative rather than the like

overwhelming positive and it's true even when there's criticism there's still like supportive people as well i do remember there was one picture i posted which had a bottle in it and i didn't even say anything what was in the bottle and there was no comment about it and it wasn't about the bottle it just there was a bottle with Skye in the picture and the comments were just out of control and I'd been having such a hard time breastfeeding this was when she was about four and a half months old and I was coming to realize that like I wasn't going to be able to keep exclusively breastfeeding it just wasn't working and I was really upset about it and people's comments were just extraordinary and nothing even said that it was formula or pumped like literally nothing it wasn't about the bottle

but there was just so many comments and then someone said you know are you using formula and I replied and I was like yeah look we're having a really hard time breastfeeding so I was like I am topping up at the moment like this is the one I'm using because she asked because she said she was having a hard time and she was doing research on like which one to use so I was like well let me try and help someone else who's having a hard time and then all these comments underneath I'm going to report you you can't advertise formula I was like I'm not advertising formula I'm trying to help I'm trying to just have a conversation with someone who's also having a hard time feeding your baby is one of feeding whether you breast or bottle feed is as contentious as every worst political decision ever made it just seems to inflame people doesn't it yeah i'm gonna report

you it's like really i don't know the other topic that's as inflammatory i think is being a mum who works yeah how do you combine work with parenting ella and do you feel judged in that space yeah i had quite a lot of that as well because we got pregnant really quickly we basically we've been working really really hard the last five years and we'd said you know like it's not the right time and then we were having a conversation we were like that'll probably never be a right time this is a more stable time let's just not try let's just see what happens and then we were pregnant within about three days so yeah it was great but the problem was was that there was a lot of stuff already planned out and you know there's nothing we could do about that and then I was so sick for the first few

months that I couldn't do quite a lot of stuff so I was quite behind and so I had to go back working kind of part-time when she was about four weeks old so she was tiny but I mean I was doing it mostly at home and then when it was like our cookbook so she was tiny but I mean I was doing it mostly at home and then when it was like our cookbook shoot and things I took her with me it wasn't like I just packed up and left when she was four weeks old yeah it's not like you sent her to boarding school at four weeks no not at all you know and also they sleep a lot during that time anyway and I had so many messages from people being like saying you know yeah it was terrible and also sort of saying like why are you doing it just just quit just don't do it and I was like it just doesn't

work like that like we've got a deal with the publishers we're contractually obliged to hand in this book they've organized this shoot a year in advance with a photographer and a photographer's assistant and a studio and this and that and all these people are involved and the editor and this person it's not just about me like we you know you can't just say like oh yeah I run my own business but I'm just gonna stop it now I've worked eight years on building something and I'm I'm just gonna quit like that's it and that's our income and we both work in the same business we run it together and it's like income. And we both work in the same business, we run it together. And it's like, it just wasn't an option in any shape or form.

But why do you have to even justify it as an option? Well, that's the thing. I know someone was like, well, just get an assistant to do it. And I was like, we can't afford an assistant at the moment. Like, it was just so frustrating. And look, this time around, we know the company's got, know had another year to grow and we had an amazing marketing director start in the business a week after Sky was born and she's now been there for a year and she's great and I feel much this time I will be able to slow down and I don't have a cookbook to shoot in the next few weeks and that's really helpful but I did last time and there was nothing I could do about that and I'm

so proud of what we've done as a company and I just it just felt really sad that there shouldn't be a judgment either which way it's whatever works for you but I love what we do and I'm so proud of what we do and I was really proud to take Skye with me and have her be a part of that and you know it was hilarious sometimes like taking her into meetings in the sling and stuff like that but it was great and largely every single person I worked with was phenomenally supportive and amazing and brilliant and I'm like forever grateful for that and I have to say I was very female led and and they really were amazing but I do I was just quite surprised by and it was also like the frustration of people being like well just don't work for a year and it was, well, we can't afford to do that.

But also it doesn't really work like that. But I was like, you know, when it's your own business and you're self-employed, that's just that's that's actually just not an option, like full stop. You know, and if it was great, but it just wasn't for us at that point. But it isn't an option for the majority of people, yet we still become, people still feel it's OK to become totally judgmental about women who go to work because they need to earn money to feed their children it's just crazy I saw such a good thing on Instagram last night that was like if you uh want to lose baby weight work out then

like you're self-obsessed and vain if you don't then you're lazy if you go back to work then you're selfish and don't care about your children if you don't then you're you know you're this and if you bottle feed you don't care about your children but if you breastfeed you're too much of a hippie and if you this it just felt so true it was like okay you can't you can't win sometime I was going to ask when it comes to work and motherhood do you have any women who you look up to in that space or anyone who you lean on for advice who's kind of been through it and done it before because I know that I find like my mum and my aunts are kind of a real inspiration to me in that area and I know that that kind of helps me on a day when I'm feeling kind of beaten by it all

do you have anyone like that? Yeah I, like friends who've gone back to work and things I've found amazing and it's just so helpful to talk to. And actually I remember talking to one of my brother's best friends a few weeks before I gave birth first time and she actually works as a stylist and she's freelance and does her own business.

And she was saying how she actually felt it was like the biggest blessing because she was like, yes, you have to go back early and you know yes you don't get the clear cut maternity but she was like the biggest blessing for me is that I then feel like I can do both simultaneously and it's not so like okay clear cut and hours the same every day and blah blah blah no that really helped me look at it as like a real positive actually in the fact that yes being freelance or running your own business is challenging because you are going to be involved even like 10 seconds after you've given birth but you are at the same time you still have a bit more flexibility and maybe setting some of your own hours and things like that which is incredible

and I think one thing that I conversation I feel like I have seen a lot and it's really resonated with me. It's just like, you know, ultimately, all that matters is being the best mum that you can be. And and for me, that's 100 percent still working because I love it. And it's such a big part of me. I feel like without that, I'm not anywhere near as good a mother because I'm not fully myself. And I hope to be a great inspiration for Skye. I was going to ask about that do you think Skye and your new baby and our kids won't face the same judgment when it comes to work and motherhood when they're grown up or do you think it's just a perennial thing? I think it's changing. I do, I genuinely do. And I think more mums are

maybe working, at least I get the impression, it's very normal to now try and do both. I think it's just about like timings and things that people can be a bit more judgmental on. And so I like to think that it's shifting. And I think more dads are taking time off and that that's a great thing too do you um think that as hopefully your girls grow up I agree with what you say that it's becoming more normal but the expectation is has not changed I think we're still expected as mothers particularly to be absolutely everything that we can be in the workplace but also be absolutely everything we can as a mother. And do you think that's going to change? Or do you think it's changing already? No, I think that's a really valid point. I think it's true. There's an expectation that you can do it all, which is you can't ever do it all in any aspect of your life. It's impossible.

I think that bit is difficult, hopefully again that will shift um so one of the things we wanted to ask you Ella is if you could gift Skye and your new daughter anything what would it be good what an interesting question which is what you're aware of saying I don't know the answer you've put me on where the hell have you asked me this no there's so I feel like there's so many different answers to that aren't there um there we are I hope it's honestly a friendship with each other because I think bonds between siblings are so so so special are you close to your siblings yeah really close my sister's one of my like bestest friends and I talk to her every day and I just think that's

such a gift yeah I really really hope for them that they have that I think that's a really good thing I'm close to my brother I think it is important because they're the only ones who can truly understand where you've come from and what you're about don't you think exactly and they you know when you go through difficult times you know they're just there in a way that it's hard for other people sometimes to be and I just yeah I think it's such a such a gift so I really really really hope that for them that's a lovely thing to wish them so the other thing I wanted to ask was you have your own podcast who's been your favorite guest and who would you love to have on but haven't had yet oh great question um actually we had someone the other day who was probably my favorite guest

if i'm allowed to have a favorite which i feel a bit naughty having but um he was this amazing guy he actually created the most popular course ever harvard university and it was all about studying the science of happiness and he just felt like actually happiness is such a thing that like universally humans search for and yet we don't give it enough credit or kind of take it seriously enough and yet we also desperately need it and he just spoke so kind of wisely about what it is that we all need in our lives and those kind of like timeless universal pillars and it's really really reassuring and brilliant.

And is there anyone who you'd love to have? Have you got like someone who you just think, oh, I really want them? I don't know. I mean, I think actually sometimes it's the unexpected guests who are my favourite, just like who have real specialities. I spoke to someone the other day who, she's an amazing woman. She's actually had six children, but she's a therapist, but she'd become really passionate about baking. And it was all about how like those kind of hobbies that are more mindful and that use your hands and that kind of creative, how amazing they are for like balancing out

our kind of mental health from the kind of more hectic side of life today and how important it is to make time for that. It's just, again, it was quite grounding and calming and really nice. Okay, so my last question is, tell us a secret that someone wouldn't think would be true about you, Ella.

Interesting. Do you know what? It's probably actually, I am such an introvert, which I think is quite funny as someone whose career obviously involves talking a lot and being very open and honest and talking to people. Yeah, I'm a complete introvertvert like my favorite thing in the whole world is just being at home in bed in my pajamas oh there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that but then how do you think you've ended up where you are then who knows to be honest it's been such a

kind of unexpected adventure but um yeah it's sort of just developed to some extent. And are you comfortable with it? Or do you wish you were less visible? No, I am. But I'm kind of very aware of what I share. And I do spend most of my time at home outside of work. So what is next for Deliciously Ella? Obviously, what's next for Ella Mills is giving birth but what's next

for you what's what would you like to do next so I'm hoping to take a couple of months off which I'm very excited about and then we'll see I mean we've got lots of new products coming which is the kind of big focus of our company and what we do which is really exciting and we're working on our app and and on recipes there and developing the wellness side with exercise content and meditations and things and just trying to make health and well-being as easy and accessible and kind of doable for people every day as we can so the very last question we have to ask you is and you might not like us for this but what is the lullaby that you sing to Sky? Oh my God, I am the worst singer ever, ever, ever.

Just like, just full stop. She is obsessed with music though. Anytime she's crying, you put on like Spotify, you know, 100 nursery rhymes and she'll stop crying. She loves them. I have noticed that Twinkle Twinkle, you really need to be a good singer for, so we don't, I try to stay away from that one. Like bar black sheep's a bit more forgiving I can't say neither neither can I

but I hadn't thought about trying to go for one that was a bit easier on the old vocal cords that is a very good tip yeah exactly okay from this I'm gonna take pick your lullabies wisely and adult nappies in the way ahead definitely thank you so much ella it's been lovely to talk to you it has thank you ella my absolute pleasure fab guys thanks so much have a lovely day