The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep15: Paloma Faith reveals why she hates being pregnant... especially the underwear

Episode Date: December 22, 2020

Listen as Annie and Wendy chat everything from IVF, miscarriage and ectopic pregnancy to traumatic births, PND and loving a newborn cone head with Paloma, who's well known for telling it like it really is.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Welcome to Sweat, Snot and Tears, you lovely sweaty, snotty, teary lot. How is your life? Mine is okay, I think.

But it's been such a weird year that when things feel okay, I actually panic that I'm missing something that isn't okay. How are you today, Wendy? I am good, thank you very much. There's no sweat, there's no snot, there's no tears. It's a rarity. I'm taking it. I'm going with it. I'm not thinking too hard about it. Okay, good. Now, let's see what's happening in the life of our marvellous guest today, who is the uber wonderful Paloma Faith. Paloma, welcome to our show. Hello. Thanks for having me. You're welcome.

I'm sorry I'm such a technophobe. Oh, gosh, don't worry. I honestly couldn't tell you one end of a microphone from the other. So that we have our lovely producer, us, to sort everything out is a godsend. Now, tell us our podcast is called sweat snot and tears have there been any sweaty snotty or teary moments in your house so far today not today last week i had the sweats because i'm pregnant and sometimes you get them and um the snot thank god is one of the perks of covid is that we're not getting as many colds from nursery this year. I know, it's really true, isn't it? I've really noticed no one's had a cold this year.

So how old's your daughter, Paloma? She's four. So she's not at school yet, she's still at nursery? Yeah, she's in her last bit of nursery. And the nursery years are usually the snot-filled years, aren't they? Oh my goodness, it's really bad for my career and all the all the parents all the parents have been like complaining that we're not allowed to send our kids in with a snotty nose because they're like they don't want mass hysteria if all the kids get

snotty noses and they think everyone's got covid so I'm like welcome to my world because they were like we can't work if every time we have to and we can't send our kid in it's because of a snotty nose I'm like I couldn't work when you were sending them with a snotty nose I can't I catch anything going I've got the worst immune system on earth oh see I was much better in pregnancy I got much less snot than I do normally. But maybe that's just because I was so busy puking, I couldn't actually notice the snot. So how are you feeling in this pregnancy, Paloma?

Is it going wonderfully well or is it a burden? I think pregnancy is appalling. I do. I hate it. And the reason I love you is because you say this out loud and you don't pretend that it's all this glorious walking apart birds are tweeting thing. It isn't. Obviously, I wouldn't have done it a second time

if I didn't really like the outcome. Yeah, the outcome's all right. Because I didn't like the prize. I love the prize after the first 12 months, not at the beginning. No, no one likes the beginning but um but yeah um I I really don't like being pregnant I don't think it suits me I don't think my body likes it it feels like I've got an allergy to pregnancy you're talking to two women who were equally allergic to pregnancy so you're in good company there yeah ours were disastrous Paloma my husband once accused

me of making it up that I felt so ill and then I went to be sick and came back and I'd burst all the blood vessels around my eyes because I'd been so sick and he shut up after that point so it's not just you it's so undignified isn't it it's just like so undignified complete absence of dignity I just like I mean I'm wearing the most hideous underwear I've ever seen just because I just can't I've lost the will to live and thank god for photoshop that's all I can say you know all those people who are like body conscious like oh yeah like embrace everything I'm like airbrush this hell out of me I think I would be the same I think yeah we didn't have the airbrush option at least you've got the airbrush yeah at least you've got that how pregnant are you Paloma when are you due

um well I don't really talk about due dates oh sorry of course no but it's it's only because there's two reasons one is I'm scared about paparazzi outside the hospital. And the other one is because my last pregnancy went so wrong that even to people who I would trust not to tell anyone, I basically can't say it because I don't believe that my due date is a real thing. I've got PTSD about it. So I'm sort of like some point in the first quarter next year but potentially before so give us anyone who's landed from Mars and doesn't hasn't heard what happened with you first time around can you give us a recap please yeah um so the first time around was uh about 31 weeks i had proms which is premature rupture of

membranes and so i was leaking and i just felt like i was urinating on myself all the time and did you know what it was or were you like what the hell is this i was like i think my waters are broken but in the films it seems to be a big splash it was sort of like a leak it was like when your roof's leaking so then I was told that I I had to induce but I didn't want to so I was a bit stubborn I had this gut feeling that I would go against I don't know my body was like keep it in cook it longer well yeah because 31 weeks is really early yeah so then I sort of um was on bed rest and I had to go to the hospital every 48 hours to have it checked and I was drinking for about three four liters of water a day which was replenishing

the fluid the amniotic fluid it was like topping it up so I just did that for about three weeks and then I went into like proper labor where my, because I didn't know. People don't tell you this stuff. There's a four waters and a hind water. So when they say waters, plural, you're like, why is it a plural? That's why, because there's two apparently. There's two bags. So one of them was leaking and the other one wasn't.

So then the other one broke in a sort of more Hollywood way. And that was at 35 weeks. And then I went into hospital. I was having contractions, everything. And I wasn't dilating for ages. I was trying to do something naturally because my babies are both IVF. So I was like disappointed already that nothing was natural. Yeah, like please let something go the right way.

Yeah, so I was trying to like do this. I had the dream of like it just sliding out at home. Or in neighbours without taking your tights off. Yeah. So, yes, so I'm already in hospital and I was like no pain relief, no pain relief. So I did nine hours like that and then they were just like you're very unwell and I was like I could do this they're like we're my determination but you're just not very well I was like okay all right try something

so then in the end I tried everything it didn't really touch the sides except for an epidural. And then I had to sleep because that week I hadn't slept for more than three hours and seven days because I was sort of in denial of being in labor. I was trying not to go to hospital. And so I was like, yeah, I knew that it wasn't kind of coming anytime soon. I was just like enduring it. And then finally after a sleep of about five hours, I woke up sort of asking everyone else if they were okay, which is my go-to in a crisis. And then after another couple of hours,

they sort of said, you're not really dilating. The baby's stuck. Do you want to do this for another three days or do you want to have a cesarean and have your baby in five minutes so I was at this point just over it and then I had a cesarean and gave birth to a cone head poor baby um and I looked at the baby I couldn't hold the baby because I was I'd vomited projectile vomited all over the room and I was shaking I don't know what it was from I had that as well when they give you a um spinal you often get the shakes and it's like you're in the arctic and you can't stop shaking and I vomited as soon as I'd had flow as well apparently it was the epidural

I just couldn't stop vomiting. Yeah, same. So then when they put the baby in your arms and you can bet, I was going, I'm going to drop her. Me too. I was like, can someone take this baby, please? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then my boyfriend took her and I was just so wiped out. I actually have very little memory of the first few days. And then in day three, I had sort of a temporary postpartum psychotic outburst

where I believe that they'd sewn my head onto somebody else's body. Oh, my God. Do you remember that? Yes, because I really remember that it was a genuinely real feeling. And I knew that it sounded crazy and I kept saying, I know this sounds crazy and I never would have thought that anyone would do this, but they have. So how did they help you?

Yeah, were you at home or were you in the hospital at this point? No, I had to stay in for a week because of all the stuff was wrong with me and mainly because of me more than the baby baby was fine seven pounds at five weeks early pretty chunky they were like this one's cooked yeah this cone head is cooked so did you find it hard to kind of bond with her in that first bit because you were obviously really out of it and having awful things happening no so so one of the amazing midwives um in the premature baby section actually when I had that psychotic moment um took the baby away for eight hours so I could sleep and then in the morning I was like I'm so so sorry. You were right. I just needed to sleep. Like it was lack of sleep that had made me go crazy.

So you were much better after a night's sleep that it went away? Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah, I feel like people underestimate sleep and they talk about postpartum depression. They talk about postpartum psychosis. And I genuinely wonder whether, you know, like half of those cases would diminish if people would just have someone come over and give them a couple of nights of sleep.

Absolutely. Sleep is so vital. So vital. Sleep deprivation is a torture mechanism, isn't it? Like there's a reason they torture people with lack of sleep. And we do live in this culture now within our sort of Western society where everyone's expected to sort of be brave and do everything by themselves. And actually it sort of goes against what historically has been the way that you raise children, which is in communities. Absolutely. Yeah, and with sort of help and, you you know a bit of admiration and support and all

of those things and actually we're sort of a bit left on our own and um I think too isolated as women when we have our babies and so this time I'm sort of being really vocal about it just so that people send help. So when you got tired again, so in the next few days after that, if you started to get tired again, would it creep back or was it just gone? The psychosis was gone. But I look back on the first two years of my daughter's life. And I know that I was unwell. And I didn't realise that I was unwell at the time when I was in it, because I just sort of accepted all the exhaustion and all of the difficulties as a given. And I didn't sort of seek out to change them or make them better, because I was too unwell to be able to even tell it ask anyone so I think it's

not until after the hormones left my body that I realized I'd been very ill so when were you diagnosed with postnatal depression when I was never diagnosed you weren't okay because I was diagnosed when my daughter was 18 months and it again it's very late but I think I was quite similar to you in that I was just going along thinking well this is just what new parenthood is like yeah but I think that I wasn't diagnosed also partly because of my career because I didn't have any access to any sort of like community groups or anything because I I was like didn't want to be like oh there's plume of faith when I felt so depleted yeah um so I was sort of hid myself away I think getting support like that when you need it mental health wise with a baby I think being recognized

is a big deal for anyone whether they're sort of the public eye or not. I've got a friend who suffered really bad PND with her third. And when I said, why aren't you going and getting help? She was like, everyone knows me around here. And they would see me walk into the clinic. And I'm like, dude, it doesn't matter. Go get the help. Like, come on, you've got to do this. But when you're really ill, you don't have any perspective.

I know your brain doesn't work that way, does it? It doesn't work in the right way. So what would you say were your symptoms over those two years? When you look back now, what is it about it that you think, God, I really wasn't well? Well, I wasn't very lucid, I don't think. I was just very practical going through the motions and I was completely and utterly devoted to my baby

with no acknowledgement of my own feelings or what I might want or even what I was feeling. I didn't even know. So I went on a tour when the baby was 10 months old and I just don't remember one of the shows. I just was going on and performing and sort of doing it. Like a robot almost kind of and I think that I am sort of was experienced enough for it not to be a bad show like I mean I was still making jokes

and stuff but I just had I don't really remember that's the thing is it's all very cloudy to me um and it was the only thing that I remember from the whole two years of the first two years of my daughter's life is her and what happened to her. And I don't remember anything really about myself because I just, I think I was so put on the back burner. So what was the turning point for you? Where did things start to get better? Was there something you actively did or was it time and sleep and just gradually becoming better I think it was literally when the hormones left my body okay I think the hormones were um the sickness and then they left my body and I was able to have clarity

and I had like a sort of weird moment of crisis where I started to be like I'd go out more and I was able to have clarity and I had like a sort of weird moment of crisis where I started to be like I'd go out more and I would like say to my boyfriend I'm out I'm going out and I would get drunk and I would like be in my skin again and it was like a sort of breakdown sort of like um almost like an adolescence didn't last very long but it was like I'm back I'm back and I'd be like dancing and like wearing nice outfits and I think it was like a sort of reaction to the fact that I felt a bit lost for a while how are you going to tackle it this time around have you got a plan I have got a plan that I'm going to um and I know that I'm in a luxury position and not everyone can do this. I'm going to ask somebody to come and help me for the first few weeks.

Yeah, I think that's vital. Because it's a planned cesarean, so I'm going to have like a maternity nurse, which I didn't have before. Because basically I come from like a background where my mum was a single parent, she did everything herself and I sort of wanted to emulate that or there was no other option for me and I felt a bit uncomfortable as well with the concept of external help because it seemed like maybe like a wealthy person's childhood and I didn't want my child to think that she hadn't bonded with me and stuff like that but later down the line. But if you need the help you need it. Yeah and I also just think as well that

actually the bonding that I did with my child definitely came later anyway because I was so unwell that it was quite sort of distant for a long time. And like you were asking about the bonding, like it didn't happen instantly for me. And I do think that our relationship grew as her personality grew. And it wasn't literally like I'm looking at this baby that I can see myself in her. I actually had the opposite reaction. I couldn't see myself in her. And I was looking at her saying, I don't know, is she mine? Especially because of the sort of harrowing nature of IVF,

where you feel so detached from the conception. And I even emailed the clinic to ask if they might have put the wrong embryo in me. Oh, so you really felt detached from the whole thing. Yeah. But they sent like a lovely email back. And I don't think that it seemed, the reply they sent seemed like they received quite a few emails like that. Yeah, they've probably heard it before. Yeah.

But I think it's really important to talk about that because I think for women going through that, it's a weird thing to sort of just be inseminated um yeah it's the horrible word and people often undergo IVF in secrecy don't they it's not the sort of thing you hear people running around telling everyone they're going through and yet it's probably the time in people's lives when they need the most support and they need more people to be on their side than ever what how do you think we could do things differently to make it easier for people what particularly for women for IVF yeah because I think we get so many users on netmums who the only people they talk to are other women in our forum they don't dare talk about it to anybody else well I love all your forum because anything I'm going through I just put it in the forum and there's like 20 there's always's always someone there. Exactly.

It's so valuable. Yeah. Sometimes all you want to hear is that you're not the only person who that's happening to. Yeah. So I think how we go forward with it is that we realize as well that, you know, culturally IVF is way more common than we realize because we are having our babies later. And I also think that something that's quite strange about IVF is that often people say, assume that it's because a woman has fertility problems. And in our case, it wasn't me. It was my partner who doesn't mind me saying because he's quite evolved.

And it's not anyone's fault it's just like you know you might have you know issues because of whatever there's so many factors i mean even somebody was saying to me like the fact that so many people are on the pill means there's loads of estrogen in the tap water yeah like there's just like yeah there's like it doesn't necessarily mean that you're less of a woman or less of a man if you have fertility issues and then I for this baby also have secondary infertility because of the birth that I had the first time right so I had no fertility problems and then because of the complete um I don't, I'm not allowed to swear, but S show. Oh, you can swear all you like.

You can swear all you want. Okay, so because of the shit show that happened, my uterus didn't really heal particularly well. And then it made, I was diagnosed with secondary infertility. So I had to take loads of drugs to thicken my uterus to be able to have this second baby. Paloma, you've really been through the ringer haven't you like the baby gods were not shining on you i reckon you deserve like the smoothest run at this second one you know well uh my anus feels different at the moment but thank you so you're going to have a maternity nurse what else are you going to do differently this time

um I feel like the maternity nurse is the big one yeah I'm also going to maybe be a bit more aware of what's happening and be able to communicate it because now I know that it's not normal because I think at the time I just thought oh this is motherhood yeah I totally agree you just think oh god this is really hard work but everyone else must be going through the same thing and actually some people are having a lovely time yeah exactly so I think that now I know that's not normal um I will be able to say I'm not feeling good and this isn't right and it doesn't have to feel like this. And then I can, you know, try and figure out ways to do it and be a bit more vocal about it. And do you feel prepared?

I'm definitely not going to breastfeed this time either. Tell us why. I think I might at the beginning, but if the baby doesn't take to it like a duck to water, like in some sort of immaculate, gorgeous thing, I'm just not going to put myself under that pressure because I did seven months exclusive breastfeeding for the last one and then I sort of went to mix feeding afterwards and I was expressing and all sorts of things.

And I really forced it. I really like felt because of social pressure and because of a lot of posters in the hospital saying that it was absolutely the only thing you should ever do. I felt like I was almost doing the wrong thing by not doing it. And I think that as soon as I did put my baby on a bottle for the night, because I sort of gently transitioned over a period of time, me and the baby were happier. The baby didn't wake up as much.

She was sort of fuller. She was really easygoing about taking the bottle as well. So I was lucky in that sense. It can be incredibly hard. And I think making a decision that ultimately your baby is only okay if you as her mum are okay. So making a decision is the right one for you is actually the best thing you can do. Exactly. Everybody involved. And I also, you know, I had two mastitis infections as well. Oh, Lord. And I was breastfeeding, bleeding and all kinds of things.

I was just like crying saying, I have to do this for my child otherwise I'm a bad mum and I just feel like that pressure on myself was just really wrong so I my advice when I speak to other women who are pregnant now when they're like oh what should I do it's like yeah give it a go do it like I mean it's great when they get an eye infection you just squirt them in the eye with a bit of breast milk and it goes away but but like if it's really awful for you and you're really struggling like it's okay not to and I definitely feel like for me this time I know I hate expressing I'm not expressing and I think that I'll probably the hours I've lost being attached to that. And that noise, that... Yeah. In the background, I just remember watching telly

with that noise as the accompaniment to everything we watched. One of my big breakdowns was because I'd expressed so much. I'd, like, filled my freezer with it because I was gearing up to being able to, like, go out and start enjoying myself and I remember that the fridge broke oh my god and all of this yeah it was like a month's worth of milk just went down the sink and I was just I had to leave the room my boyfriend had to pour it all out for me because I was crying yeah I would try if I accidentally knocked over one

bottle of it I can't imagine getting rid of a month of it stupid it's like liquid gold you can't oh I can't imagine how hard that would have been oh Paloma so tell us about the IVF and what you'd say to other mums or mums-to-be who are going through IVF, is there anything you've learned this time that's kind of helped you? Everyone's different, of course. But for me, what worked was that I got on with my life and I did it around my life. And a lot of women say, oh, they're going to stop work or they're going to take some time off to do it and actually for me that wouldn't work because I would fixate on it and put a lot of pressure on it and you'd be more

isolated then as well wouldn't you yeah so for egg collection which is the bit you do first to stimulate all your eggs and um and then fertilize them I just carried on life as normal and tried to work almost more because I, and I used to like carry my needles in my bag and like go and do them in a toilet quickly and come back. And I actually preferred that because it didn't feel like it was the main focus of my entire being. Once they're, you know, fertilized and tested and whatever you decide to do and they're there then for me like I had three failed transfers for this baby so before one were

well one was a miscarriage and two were failed and then I basically just was in lockdown and I decided that I couldn't do it anymore because I'd had three failed and I'd had an ectopic before my first as well so I'd done like six transfers in total and I was a bit over it and I sort of thought no then we went to lockdown which was like the least I've had to do stress-wise in ages and I just thought no this is perfect I don't have loads on I'll just do it and sort of that two-week wait I'll sort of potter about enjoy my child enjoy the garden and do some work on my laptop at home record some songs and stuff no pressure and that really I think was the reason why this worked so if you're going to take any sort of slower moments I would say for me what worked was after the transfer not while I was doing the stimulating

all those injections and everything it's so harrowing I don't think you should like imprison yourself in your house and just jet yourself all day because it just feels really degrading and awful. It's so gruelling. So you said you suffer from PTSD. Is that because of the traumatic birth or is it because of the culmination of a lot of things, you know, an ectopic pregnancy, a miscarriage, two children conceived through IVF plus the birth, plus the postnatal psychosis? What do you think has been the biggest factor? Well, what I need to first of all say is that I do throw these things around a lot and I haven't actually been dictated with any of them by a medical practitioner.

But I just want to say... No, but to be honest, I wouldn't blame you if you had been because it's... I mean, I'm the sort of person who spells a word wrong and goes that's my dyslexia sorry but I but I but I'm talking about it genuinely like yeah I mean whether I'm exaggerating or not I'm not really exaggerating I just haven't been diagnosed but when I say PTSD I mean like I do genuinely feel very traumatized by what happened but the more that I talk about it the more that I realise that lots of women go through this and don't talk about it. And so I think it's really important that I do. Massively.

Also, like, I hope that at some point we'll get round to talking about how brilliant I think parenthood is. Yes, we absolutely will. Yeah, I do feel traumatized and I do feel worried and there is a part of me as well that's like already decided that my current pregnancy will be premature will be problematic because it's easier for me to think like that um and actually the more I you know like recently I went to the hospital and they were like, you've got placenta previa this time. So it's always something but then they're like, oh, but one in 10 stays as placenta previa and nine out of 10 go back, the placenta goes back up.

So, but my mindset is like, I've got it got it because it's almost like you're preparing for the worst yeah but when they told me that I felt worse than I did the first pregnancy and I'll tell you why because I love my daughter so much and I felt guilty that I'd put myself in potentially a life-threatening situation and I felt like an irresponsible parent and I thought it was maybe selfish of me to want to have another baby because I might then put my life in jeopardy you know because of her and then when I say that to people they're like you're not gonna die with you know the dialogue people deal with for some all the time. But it is something to do with the trauma that makes me automatically think that because I did nearly felt like I nearly died last time.

And I do think that in a way a part of me did. And then, you know, something was born, of course, like I became a mother and all of that. But it feels like, you know, a death of something and the trauma added to that. Yeah, so at the moment I'm a bit kind of scared because... I think you're allowed to be. Yeah.

And I also just think I feel worried for my child, whereas before I didn't feel so worried because I didn't have a child already. So I was a bit like. I think that's a really common feeling for mums, even who haven't had all the shit you've had, because you always question whether you're going to be able to what bringing another baby into the world is going to do but it does make them a sibling and that is one of the loveliest things you can do for your child is to give them that relationship it's such a lovely thing yeah but like even the thought of like if I have to stay in the hospital for a week makes me feel terrible because I don't leave my daughter ever like so far up till now I don't think I've been away from her

for more than five days so does she come on tour with you yeah oh that's nice that is she's just like my sidekick she's my absolute best friend I was actually watching The Crown the other day and there's a scene in it where Diana's like you will not take my child away. And I was like, relate. Yeah. I remember that moment when we were going to Australia, yeah. And I remember thinking, how can they have expected her to be away from her baby for that long? I know, awful. They're like, it's your duty. But I remember being like that with my mother-in-law,

who was all the poor woman was trying to do was make me go upstairs for sleep. And she was going to look after my baby downstairs for a couple of hours. I was like a tigress I was like no you will not hold her it makes you just like furious the thought of anyone taking them away for five minutes doesn't it totally it's so bizarre I'm hoping that I don't become the tiger this next time just to warn you you absolutely will tell us hello your favorite bits of parenthood because like you say we focused a lot on the dramas and the traumas but you obviously adore your daughter and adore spending time with her so tell us what tell us what you find most magical

about being a mum well I feel like as I've said flippantly before I don't think that I'm not massively into newborns I know some people are but I just think they're a bit boring um I think everyone has a phase that they like in a phase that they don't Wendy's not ever so keen on the toddlers but I quite like a toddler I love toddlers so it's just like up to about the first year like it's all great like yeah you you take your crumbs like you get the odd smile or whatever but it's like and by that point you're just desperate for anything acknowledgement because for the first six months they look through you and just I know suck your boob and you're like I am a person you know I know I remember

once looking at my son when he was about three months old thinking do you even like me like I'm doing all this stuff for you and I don't have a clue whether you even like me and you reward me with a shit that goes all the way up your back to your neck yeah um and so after about six months when they start developing it starts to get fun and they're quite fun then because they can't like really hurt themselves i found like from age one to 18 months terrifying when they start standing up and like falling over all the time that's quite terrifying because she knocked herself out literally went purple stopped breathing and I hadn't had any training and I was just like oh god banging her back just thinking like cough whatever it is and it was like after like 30 seconds she just like woke up

had to get an ambulance and go to hospital I was like oh my god because she'd just fallen over that was it and and the reason why she fell over is because she she was a nap refuser so she was too tired to stand up properly um I was just like no this is hell but then after like 18 months literally I've loved every phase after 18 months equal like even a bit more so every time so when she turned two I was like this is the best thing that's ever happened to me and then I was like it can't get better than this and then three you're like oh my god this is even better and now I'm on four and it's like the greatest thing that's ever happened she started asking me questions about the world and life that are just so wonderful like the other day she said something so amazing

she said um we were talking about how everybody has got different skin colors but we're all the same mama and we all deserve love and we're all like, and I said, yes, that's true. What are the skin colours? And she goes, well, there's brown, there's sort of a yellowy colour and then a bacon-y colour. Oh, I love that. She's just amazing.

I was like, my life is made. What colour are you? She said, well, I'm quite yellowy I think I'm bacon my mom said that I was like I'm streaky bacon so what kind of mum are you Paloma are you soft and let her get away with murder or are you strict or you know are you good cop bad cop is daddy bad cop we're both sort of quite on the same page except that I am a little bit firmer because I feel like sometimes my my priority is always what's going to make her happier so I am very structured and I think that

she's happier when her life's quite structured I think it's really important to talk about things and I talk a lot about being a good person and empathy and nature and how we treat other people and sharing and all that stuff's really important for me more than her whether she knows her phonics or not yeah um which i think some parents are really into that no judgment i know people whose kids could read at three and i was like what to the like split digraph stage and i have i'm just like what is that yeah just seriously but yeah so i believe in like you know a structure a routine naps and meal times and a bath before bed and a set bedtime and actually think for me the set bedtime's been a saving

grace because first of all when I'm on tour it's really important that she goes to bed at that time because I'm on stage at nine so she needs to be asleep by 7 30 latest so that I can get ready um and I just think she's happier because she sleeps 12 hours yeah I agree were you brought up in this way is this how you were brought up by your mum or have you kind of rebelled and gone the other way no I think my mum did bring me up very structured, but she was maybe slightly less firm about the structure. Although it might just be her as a grandparent. Like she goes, oh, she can stay up a bit later today. Oh yeah, my mum's like that.

And yeah, she was never like that with us, but they can do anything they want. It's nuts. Yeah, that's what I think is happening is the grandparents a bit looser. But yeah, so I think I was raised like that yeah so does she get kind of what you do for a living does she yeah enjoy what you do for a living or is she kind of shielded from it um she doesn't understand the concept of celebrity or fame but she understands that I'm a singer so she doesn't understand that

or really care about what a famous person is yeah um but I I think that's her nature because some of her friends from nursery so come and stare at me with these eyes like wow and she's seen she's seen all the same stuff as them but i recently did um my new single gold's got me dancing on a digger which was really popular amongst the nursery children yeah a digger is like the height of excitement why a digger dare i ask um it was something to do with um gentrification so I'm like on a building site but they were like Paloma went on a digger and danced and they're just looking at me like wow um but my daughter she did say the other day actually which is the first time she said she said mama when you go to work you're Paloma Faith when you come home you're mama oh I love that that's so cute she does quite often ask me why people in the street know my name that I don't

know that's really interesting now talking about names I know that we don't know your daughter's name and that's been your choice you haven't revealed it publicly how did you come to that decision and are you glad you made that decision I'm very glad for my first baby I was scared and worried and didn't know what I was going to feel like and just wanted to keep as much information out of the public eye as possible about it and then I think that being a celebrity is a personal I never decided to be a celebrity, but I chose a career that meant that if I have any success, I would end up being one as a consequence of the work that I put like it so my boyfriend doesn't like it my mother doesn't like it they're not characters that enjoy a camera pointed at them yeah um and they prefer to be in pictures or whatever and whenever you see a picture of me and my boyfriend with it it's

because I've forced him and held a gun to his head yeah I'm just like you've got to be otherwise hence why you called him long-suffering I love it this is yeah um but basically yeah so a child's so young and they don't know who they are yet and they they need space I think to develop their own identity and their own understanding or desires about who they are and what they want to do with their life. And if my kids turn out to be, I don't know, introverted or private people, I don't want to give them another reason, because your kids will resent you, to resent me and be like, you put me in the public eye and I never asked for this.

So that's why why and I just think it's really important as well for her to also experience her own journey that isn't associated with who I am and not always be Paloma Faith's daughter yeah I think that's I think that's a very valid choice to have made do you get stalked by paparazzi like does she ever say mummy why are those people taking a picture um she hasn't for a while because we moved so I don't know where I guess one of the benefits of lockdown lockdown and also always wearing a mask so that's great yes that's quite clever actually, isn't it? How was your lockdown, Paloma?

Did you take up cross-stitch? What did you do in your lockdown? I recorded my album, Infinite Things, in the lockdown, taught myself how to record music. That's pretty cool. Oh, now I feel inferior in every way. Yeah, me baking the odd loaf of banana bread hardly compares does it I have to say that the nursery being closed was like a moment of major anxiety for most parents I was like yeah is my child learning anything I need to make sure that I teach her something

every day this pressure and I was like everyone was so relieved when the schools and nurseries opened oh tell us about it we were homeschooling and working and it was Wendy how bad was it it was like going back to like I hated math lessons as a kid and now my nine-year-old was teaching me how to do split infinity fractions and I can't I don't even know what they're called it was just horrific I hated it so as we get near the end of our pod, we always ask our guests the same last three questions. So first up, Paloma Faith, how would you want to be remembered?

When your time on this earth is gone, what's the most important thing for you to be remembered for? Oh, kindness. Being a kind person. I love that. That's simple and to the point. Very simple, but very effective. Our last guest told us off for trying to finish her off in her 40s.

Yeah, she was like, I'm not dirtying you. Right, you do the next one, Wend, and then I'll do the embarrassing one at the end. I have to say, actually, the last two albums since my child was born. So I wrote The Architect whilst I was pregnant and then released it when she was born and then the last one infinite things which is the title track is about my daughter um I'm very aware when I'm writing that she will one day listen to them and I sort of I sort of litter them with messages that I want her that's so nice That's so nice. That's so nice.

So it's like a diary. Now we have to listen and find the hidden messages. I'm going to go back and listen again now. Yeah. What was that? What was that? Well, Infinite Things is a song about motherhood and it sort of encompasses everything we've spoken about in this chat.

It's like all of the feelings that I told you about um are in that song but it's almost to tell her how I felt which was like basically it was worth it but it was really hard sums it up yeah it does bloody sum it up do you find it easier to write when you're pregnant the songs kind of fall out of you or is it harder when do you find it easiest to write it's not about pregnancy it's more about like how much stuff you've got going on if you've got less I found it really easy in lockdown because there was not much going on and it really helped so you could focus yeah if there's too much going on you don't know how you're feeling because you don't have time to think about it so do you plan on touring this album once the baby's here yeah september 2021 with two children in tow and does that thrill you or does it make you think oh my god what have i taken

on well i'm thinking maybe like the first one will be at school so maybe i'll just have one yeah all right that's fine but um i think it will be thrilling if i do it properly this time and stop thinking that i'm some sort of superhero which i think's my advice for all new mums which is like don't try and be a hero it's fine there's no medals there's no medals there's not really any thank yous even I think when they say they love you and like stuff like that or we're in a phase of like you're my best friend and then I just think oh it was worth it yeah your child doesn't care whether you flogged yourself half to death to breastfeed them or yeah I mean or you didn't have the gas and air and you're in labor they just care that you're their lovely mummy that's what they want that's true sorry I cut you short so what was your second question our second question is much easier to answer what's the

tea tonight oh god my boyfriend cooks I don't okay that's a good answer that is a good answer yeah our final question which we're not just asking you because you're a singer we ask this every guest every week is imagine you're tucking wendy and i into bed yeah and sing us your lullaby because we know that every parent has a song that they sing to their child and they're trying to get them off to sleep so mine keeps saying don't sing now because i think she resents my job. Oh, really? She's sort of like, it's the thing that takes you away.

So now she's like, I don't want you to sing at home. See, mine say don't sing, but that's from an entirely different reason. But I'll tell you what I used to sing her. Go on then. I'll sing it. Shall I sing it? Yes, please. Yes, please.

Stars shining bright above you Night breezes seem to whisper I love you Birds singing in the sycamore trees Dream a little dream of me You know that one. We know that one. Oh, Paloma. I wish I could sing. That was amazing.

Your daughter's so lucky. Tell her that she should let you sing every night. I was like, do you know what that costs? Normally I'm doing it for you for free. And on that note, Paloma, you've been an absolute joy. Thank you. You've been a superstar. You know, it's not easy when you're a parent in the public eye

to kind of bare your soul and share your story. But I know that you're doing it as an act of generosity to help others. And I just think that's amazing. So thank you so much. Oh, thank you. I think it's helpful to me too, because I feel like the loneliness that's involved just being a mum sometimes is something that needs to stop and that um it's helpful to me to talk about it so thanks for the

opportunity no any time and we wish you all the luck in the world with the arrival of baby number two yes I'm crossing fingers toes arms and legs I neck. I'm going to glide through this one. It's going to sleep through the night as soon as it's born. Yeah. And it's just going to slip out of me like some sort of little baby otter. Yeah, it's going to be easy peasy. And it's going to have a really round head. A lovely round head.

No one is going to think conehead at all. Right, good luck Paloma. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.