The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep19: Anna Saccone Joly on sons who wear dresses: how do you decide what to share - and what not to - when you're a parenting influencer?

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

Listen as Annie and Wendy chat all things parenting with influencer extraordinaire and mum of four, Anna Saccone Joly. From how she juggles a hectic daily life with content creation, to how she navigates her struggles with her children's privacy and choices.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Sweat, Snot and Tears podcast. I apologise if I sound like I'm broadcasting from a field.

I promise you I'm not. But I have a new laptop. But I didn't get an adapter to plug my mic in. So I'm running off the laptop's mic. Please excuse the bad sound. Sweat, snot or tears. I can't think what we've had in our house today. Maybe a bit of sweat about the sound. No snot, no tears. But Wendy, you are in the snot house, aren't you? I'm in the snot house. it's streaming I didn't think people were getting colds because everyone was isolating but apparently my children are so I've got two children banished to another room not allowed to put the telly on because I'm

recording generally grumpy all is fine in my house and I've had five coffees and it's 10 past 10 so good luck you'll be buzzing. Right. So with no further ado, let's find out what today's guest has been swimming in, whether it's sweat, snot or tears. Good morning, Anna Saccone-Joli. How are you? Good morning.

Thank you so much for having me. Oh, you are welcome. We feel very honoured to have such a huge influencer on our pod. It feels very exciting. So tell us, has there been any sweat snot or tears in your house this morning we have had quite a bit of snot but I feel like that's just kind of my life I don't think that I don't think that is even seasonal anymore I just you know I have a two and a three and a half year old so we're just it's constant isn a two and a three and a half year old. So we're just, it's constant, isn't it? And the three and a half year old is at preschool.

So, I mean, yeah, it's just kind of my life. Well, four kids, six dogs, mayhem, right? Yeah, yeah. Tell us about them. Tell us about mornings in your house with four children, six dogs and a lot of snot. Oh, gosh, it is mental. I mean, I'm really, really lucky that I have got a hands-on husband because I think if I didn't, it would be a very, I wouldn't be on

this podcast basically. I would be crying somewhere upstairs, maybe in a bathroom crying. Yeah, it's very, very busy. We generally, we kind of have, my husband's really good at this, but have quite a, it's like a military operation, getting everybody ready and out the door. Because I think with four, it kind of has to be. How old are they, Ella? So our oldest is eight. And then she's a girl, Emilia. And then we've got Eduardo, who's six and a half. And then we have Alessia, who's three and a half, and Andrea, our youngest, who is two. And what are they all into at the moment? What kind of stages are we at? Oh, gosh. Well, the older two, I mean, that's kind of the, you know, what I thought was the easy stage because they're all obviously out of nappies and they're sleeping through the night and all that. But I wasn't prepared for the fighting and arguing.

Oh, tell me about it. Yes, yes. Yeah, so now I'm kind of realising, actually, I don't want the three, I mean, you know, toddlers are hard work, but I kind of don't want it to end because it's actually quite a nice stage because, you know, they're still really cute

and really sweet and they can almost do no wrong whereas when they get to six and eight it's a it's a different story I love them but it's different if I hear one more poo joke seriously I might just can't take any more exactly um so obviously we've referenced the fact that you are this huge parenting influencer. Do you mind that term? Do you find it irritating? What do you like to be known as? I don't view myself as anything other than just a mom. So it's really odd when I get called these types. I guess I view myself as a content creator because that's the term that we used back in the day. I mean, we're old school. We've been around for, well, we're kind of dinosaurs at this stage of the YouTube game

because we've been around for over 10 years. And that's, you know, that's old in that, you know, on social media. Your old hat on YouTube. Yeah. And then influencer didn't come about until a few years ago. And that's more Instagrammy, isn't it? Yes. Yeah.

So neither of us really love the term but i mean i'm not offended if somebody calls me an influencer okay good i'm glad i haven't offended you no but you've got you've got over a million subs on youtube and on insta you've got another half million on tiktok i know you started as a beauty blogger but why how did you ever start charting your family life? And did you ever think it would grow this big? Definitely not. No. You know, we have kind of inadvertently just ended up in the family space. I really did it just to make friends because I was going through a lot at the time. My dad had just passed away and I was feeling, and we'd moved to a different country

and I was just feeling really lonely. So I suddenly found all of these friends online and the other beauty bloggers that were, because it was a very small group of us at the time. Yeah. And everyone knew each other, didn't they? They did. Yeah. And I guess we were just lucky enough to be early adopters of that whole community. And then we started vlogging and kind of filming more day-to-day stuff as a boyfriend and girlfriend, and then, you know, kind of documenting our engagement and our wedding. And then it was only natural when I fell pregnant that we would document that too. So we just kind of slipped into family vloggers, I guess. Do you feel a pressure now? Is it a pressure some thing to kind of have to keep up with all of these

different social media channels and keep your content relevant and interesting while also managing a real life job as in being a mum of four kids? I think we're really lucky in that we we're in this together so Jonathan is the more analytical one and he does you know he plans things and he likes to have he likes to have a plan when he does things and he likes to have a strategy um whereas I'm just kind of I just go along with it I'm just here for the fun ride um and so yeah I think we balance each other out in that way so I I personally don't feel pressure I don't think Jonathan does either I think he genuinely really enjoys it and it's something that he genuine oh you did a big poo. Thank you. Sorry. Oh, I love it.

Sweat, snot, tears and poo. It's all fine. Yeah. So I don't think he feels pressure either. I think he is. It's what he loves. You know, that's what he loves to do. So I guess we're lucky that we have that balance of the two of us, that we don't get overwhelmed by it all. And what do you think is coming next then? So obviously you were ahead of the curve on YouTube insta you were clearly ahead of the curve on tiktok to have grown as big as you have what's next what's the next big media trend what should we all be looking out for oh my gosh i'm probably the worst person to ask you'd really need to ask jonathan oh is he is he the one who spots that stuff? No, I can guarantee the worst person is my husband. He issues all forms of social media at all times. So the only person worse would be

him who literally wouldn't use, if I said TikTok to him, he'd be like, huh, what was that? Yeah, no, Jonathan was the one who he spotted TikTok and he was like, I think this could be a big thing. And I think he started the TikTok almost, I think it's coming up to a year. And he has almost a million actually followers on there now. I think it's at 900 and 960,000 or something like that. But so he is definitely more tuned into that kind of thing. Like I said, I just go with the flow. And I guess whatever, to answer your question, whatever feels fun at the time and fresh, I think that's the main thing. I think people can see when something is forced and when

it becomes a chore. And I think with social media, it needs to be fun and I think that's probably why the TikTok has grown so so much is because we really do have a ball when we're when we're making them and that comes across on camera I think well I hope so yeah I think whatever it is the main thing is that we're having fun as a family okay so you've obviously got a good eye not just what well Jonathan's got the eye for spotting the channel but you've obviously got a great eye for creating content that works on those channels right let's say you were a social media advisor to me and Wendy how would you position us like what would we what could we do to make get a million followers on TikTok me and Wendy? I think there's no hope Annie just telling you putting it out there no I'm just fascinated

how you figure it all out and make it happen I think that TikTok's main thing is original content that's what they want um but having said that I think that you to start off you do need to jump on the trends so when you notice that a trend is happening whether it's a song that's really popular or you know it's usually something to do with like lip syncing or it's just you know there's some kind of a trend going on and you notice it because you start being fed the same kind of either it's the same song or the same style of video over and over. Jumping on that, but doing something that sets you apart from everyone else. So making it somehow a little bit original and fit for your brand and who you are. I think that is the best way of

growing on TikTok. And I don't think it matters who you are because the amazing thing about TikTok is that it really does push out anyone and everyone. And it doesn't matter who you are. You don't have to be, you don't have to have a certain amount of followers. I mean, we started again on TikTok from scratch. Obviously it does help having the other social media platforms, but when it comes to that For You page, which is like the homepage, people didn't know who we were. It's kind of like you have to start all over again but there's something really fun about that and I think it's really great that they do showcase lots and lots of different people and different talent and anyone can do it I definitely would go for it I think um jumping on those trends and then just kind of tweaking it to make it your own is a really good idea. I'm actually quite glad we're not seeing you in person because God only knows what you'd have had us all doing on TikTok this morning.

I've just got visions. That could be the next time we get together. Yes. So, Anna, you've been really honest about the not so great aspects of your life, your miscarriage, your eating disorder. Why go public with that stuff? Why did you decide to? I think for me, I've always been quite an open book. However, my eating disorder was something that I struggled with it for 12 years. And I really felt like during those 12 years, I couldn't fully be myself. I was always

holding something back and not being true to myself because I had this deep, dark secret. And for me, it was almost like a sense of relief when I was able to come out about it and tell people about it, because that's kind of just always been my nature. I've always been an oversharer, even in real life. So it was really opposite for me to have this horrible secret that I couldn't tell anyone. And what's been really great, both with that and the miscarriage, is that in sharing those things, I think that it has helped a lot of people. And I mean, it's the saddest message that I get, but it's also one of my favorites because if I've helped somebody or if I've just made them feel a bit better about things

when they're in a dark place themselves or given them hope, because if I'm there saying, if I can do it, anybody can, then that's something that's, I wish someone had said that to me so I I really feel like that is that is the beauty of social media is that you can connect with people on so many levels and it's just incredible well yeah and that's why you went

into it in the first place isn't it I mean you said you were lonely you wanted to connect with people and I guess it would be silly to not use your bigger platform now and your bigger share of voice to still try and connect people together and on meaningful topics, wouldn't it? Exactly. Yeah, no, you totally hit the nail on the head. I mean, it's, it would be odd, not to share. And I just always felt, I felt wrong. I just felt like there was something missing. And now I feel like a weight's been lifted. Is there anything you don't share? Is there anything where you're just like, you know what? I can't go there. I can't do that.

Or the kids say, mum, can you not put that on? Or Jonathan says, you know what? I don't want that to go on there. How do you police it? What are your boundaries? Oh, yeah. I mean, so we're known as the family that shares everything. Yes, I know. That's why I'm asking. Yeah. And I guess, I mean, that statement really isn't true, but I guess it's great. It's great clickbait, right? But we definitely have boundaries. Gosh, like there are a lot of things that we don't show we're very very mindful that you know the kids didn't choose this life we did I was just about to ask that actually how do you kind of manage that side of it that at some point they might say I don't do this totally yeah and we've always been so um aware that and so mindful. So we kind of take their lead and we've shared. Obviously, we shared more when they were babies because everybody loves a cute baby. But we've never shared things like potty training, disciplining them, fights that we have obviously we're a married couple we fight a lot we argue a lot but that doesn't make

it on we kind of try to keep the videos something that is happy and uplifting and of course it's fine that we share things kind of we share things that are maybe not so great after the fact um you know speaking to camera but we don't actually video it, if that makes sense. So I think that's the difference. And I always want it to be something that the children will be proud and happy to look back on. And obviously, you have to be mindful of the fact that, you know, their friends might be watching or parents at the school might be watching. So we're always very careful about that. But as our children have got older, I did think that we may have to step back a bit or have to kind of limit the amount that they're put on as they get older. But actually the opposite's happened, at least for the older two. You know, they're all different. So who knows what the

future holds, but the older two are very much like, they just, they love it. They absolutely love it. And their friends love it and their friends want to be on. So it's kind of gone the opposite way to what I thought. Oh my God, the request, you must be like the most popular play date in the whole school. Can we come to yours and be on the TikTok, please? It's really nice though. It's nice to have it be such a positive space. I'm really proud of how, how we've done it actually, because, you know, obviously you do get backlash for anybody does in, you know, we don't know. We're this age of mummy bloggers and oversharers and we share everything online and we don't know what that generation that's growing up

online is going to be like and how they're going to react to it later and further down the line. So we do have to be careful. But the other thing is, it's the time that we're living in. Like, there's kind of no getting around it. I have friends that do share. I have friends that don't share their kids. And I think I respect both. I think you have to do what's right for you and what's right for your family. But I also have friends that haven't shared their children. And then, you know, a couple of years later, their kids are like, hey, how come you never put me on your social media?

What's going on? And then they change their minds. Well, I was going to ask, because you get a lot of grief as well as a lot of love, which kind of is part and parcel of the whole thing. And you've even taken a break from social media before. So how do you handle all the shit that comes your way as part of being a very public social media figure?

I think I have got a lot better at it now. As a first time mom, age 24, not so much, um, struggling with an eating disorder among other things, you know, that was probably not my finest moment because I, I just, I didn't know how to handle it. Um, so I think I've learned, you know, I'm, I'm 33 now and I've been doing this for however many, 10 plus years. Um, you learn to deal with it and it's not a linear process it kind of has ups and downs and obviously we've been through some really awful stuff but I think I'm actually really thankful for the fact that that has happened because you know it builds us up you know it kind of builds our resilience and we're like all right we've got over that. What's next? So what kind, tell me what kind of awful stuff. And I don't know if you're speaking to, I know a couple of people who they're desperate to be Instagram influencers and they're just really,

then you kind of get a phone call saying someone said this about me and it's really awful. How do you actually do that? How do you bolster yourself up when someone's just called you something foul on the internet it's so difficult and I wish I could give like a you know one line answer but it's just not that simple I think again we're lucky that we have each other like Jonathan and I have been in it together I can't imagine especially some of the younger um youtubers or influencers out there that are doing it alone. And they're so young, they're like 19 or 20 years old. And I'm just like, I'm in awe of how they handle it because it is so mind-bogglingly crazy. What's the ratio of kind of nice to nasty?

Oh, I would say it's probably 90, 95% good and that 5% bad. But the thing is that the 5% that's not so nice, they shout so loud. And of course, we're all humans. So we might see something online. We might see like 100 lovely comments and then you see one nasty one. And that's like, oh, you know, your teeth are crooked or your thighs look big or whatever it is and you take that on you're like oh and you forget about all of the nice ones yeah what would you do if the kids hit an age where they said I want you to take down everything

about me I don't want an online footprint what would you do um I it's a tricky one because I don't really believe I don't believe at least for the older two I can't really speak for the babies but um I don't believe that they would actually ever say that because as far as I can see obviously I can't tell the future um they are really really happy with everything that's out there because like I said we don't it's not like we're showing things that are uncomfortable for them to watch um you know it's a difficult question to answer because obviously I don't know the answer until it happens but we have always said that if any of our children ever decided not to be you know not to partake that we would be absolutely fine with it of course

we would I mean that would be a really that would be an effort to take down every single I know the only reason I ask is we once had a social media editor on netmums who obviously she's a social media editor had always like had social media accounts and posted pictures of her gorgeous children and it was all fine and then one of them hit 12 and said I don't want any of this on there I want it all down and she spent a whole and she spent a whole weekend taking it all down like she had to like she had to honor her child but I remember it stayed with me and I was like wow like imagine if your life or business was being an influencer and your child said that what the hell would you do I know it's yeah it's a good I mean it's an interesting one because I obviously we won't know until it happens if it does but obviously you have to it

would be awful if you if you didn't honor them because it is at the end of the day it is their it's their choice it's their life it's their image um but I just I mean I just I can't right now like as you can't imagine it no just because you know it's not ever like intrusive they're comfortable with it no and and also it's it's not like Jonathan and I are like hey guys let's make a TikTok it's more like the kids are like hey come on let's do let's make a TikTok or let's take you know they're really into it and they're kind of almost I wouldn't say they're leading it because it is obviously led by mom and dad but um they seem so happy to be on it but you know there's difficult things like um our son Eduardo has always been more on the feminine side um since he was born

and he has only recently decided that because I I do ask the older two for consent before I put their um image on like you know if I take a picture with them or if I do a video with them. And so he's just recently decided to go more public with the fact that he likes to wear dresses. We had obviously shown snippets of it when he was more of a baby, but we kept it quiet because we knew that he wasn't so comfortable with sharing that side. And now he just decided that, you know, he doesn't care and he wants to show the world. And I think that's amazing and I want to support him in that.

But of course you think like, well, he's six and a half. Like what if he's changing his mind? Yeah. We don't know. And it's really, it's uncharted territory with social media. But I think that's just, that's the age we're living in. And it's like any generation. We have this amazing territory with social media. But I think that's just that's the age we're living in. And it's like any generation. We have this amazing thing called social media.

We just have to learn to navigate it. We are going to make mistakes. That's part of parenting. My parents made plenty of mistakes, but I still love them. Yeah, of course. How has that been for you to embrace that? And how has the world received that his choice to wear dresses sometimes oh I mean the response has been overwhelmingly positive and I'm so I'm so proud

of just the world that we're living in today and that I feel like if this were 10 years ago even definitely 20 years ago but probably even 10 years ago things would have been very different he was really inspired by obviously Harry Styles on the cover of Vogue that really was huge for him and I'm just so happy that he gets to grow up in a world that's accepting of that kind of thing um I feel like it's amazing and it's an amazing thing to watch your child kind of blossom in front of your eyes. And become who they are. Yeah. And there must be so many parents out there who are like less comfortable maybe with it, who have made more comfortable by seeing you publicize it and him do it.

It's not a big deal. It's nothing. No, I know. And yeah, I've definitely received a lot of comments from mums that have said things like, and I shared this with him as well, because of course he feels like, you know, he has felt like sometimes that he's the only one and these kinds of comments, you know, saying, well, I've shown my son this and he's, he loves wearing dresses and he loves sparkles and Elsa and glitter. And he's just so happy to see somebody like him being represented.

I do, I share those kinds of things with him because I want him to know that he's, there are plenty like him out there. It's just, you know, he might be the only one in his class, but that doesn't necessarily mean, that might not even necessarily be true. It might be that he's just the only one that's kind of brave enough to do it.

Does it worry you? Do you look into the future and think, I wonder what's going to happen? I wonder if this is going to progress or are you just happy to take it day by day? I think maybe in the beginning I was a little bit, because obviously you don't want anything bad to happen to your child. So you don't want them to be um bullied or um you know put in any kind of a situation where they feel that they're I don't know that they're uncomfortable or that they are the odd one out um but I think with the response just with the way the world is right now with the response that he's got I'm really really, I'm not, I'm honestly, you know, nothing has actually changed. He's the same as he always was since he was born.

And I always knew that he was this way. And I've always loved it because I always thought this is before our second son. So our fourth was born. I believed that I would be a girl mum. I just had this feeling. I'm better with girls. I'm used to feeling. I was like, I'm just, I'm better with girls. I'm used to girls. I have two sisters, you know? And then I had, I found out that I was having a boy when I had, I got pregnant with Eduardo and I was

absolutely petrified. I was like, what am I going to do? And then he turned out to be the way he is. And I was like, well, this is perfect. You know, God's obviously just given me the kind of boy that I can handle. And then I had Andrea. I was like, oh, oops. So, you know, obviously things have changed now because I've got a boy that's into cars. And, you know, they're so totally different. But I actually, I just think it's amazing. It's so cool to see all of your children have different interests

and be so different from each other, even though they have the same parents and the same upbringing. So if it all went away tomorrow, if everything stopped, what's plan B? Do you mean like YouTube or do you mean like social media in general? Let's just say social media just starts to fall by the wayside. And it just isn't anything that anyone's particularly interested in. What would you be? Would you be a doctor?

Would you be a vet? Start a bakery. What's your kind of secret thing that you'd love to do if you weren't doing what you're doing? Gosh, it's a really hard one because I got into it when I was 21, I think. So I have been doing this pretty much. So you've never done anything else, really? Not really, no. I guess, you know, Jonathan is, he's trained in,

so he specialised in 3D animation. And he actually, he did a lot of the stuff that he's doing right now. So like the editing software that he uses and all of that would have been things that he was trained in. So he's got lucky because he ended up basically doing what his degree kind of trained him to do. Yeah. So I guess he would probably just, you know, follow along with that path. So he's eight years older than me. I was a lot younger when we got into it. So I really don't know the answer to that question because I was just a baby and then I started having babies of my own.

I really have spent my most, you know, all of my twenties getting pregnant and being a YouTuber. There are worse things to do. Yeah. So I guess I would have to figure it out as I go along but I think that's the fun part of life isn't it yeah you never know what's gonna happen next yeah nobody expected this pandemic to happen and as much as it's been really really awful for a lot of people and I don't think anyone has not been affected by it I think it has forced people to pivot. And that's something that on social media, especially, you have to do. You have to come up with new ideas. You have to come up with new. So we're quite innovative, I would like to think. And we're always excited for

the next adventure. So I don't know. I wish I could answer your question better, but I guess my answer is I don't know. But if it happens, I'm excited. Is there a hint? Is there a hint of more Saccone Jolie babies? I was just about to say baby number five. If you asked Jonathan, my husband, he would probably say yes or like hopefully yes. But he's not the one who has to have it's not his pelvic floor let's be honest um i think i'm done with four but you know never say never right but i think i'm i'm just tired and i know that feeling very well yeah yeah but you've got two i know

four i'd be in the coma somewhere I don't know what I'd be doing. Okay, so to more mundane things, we always ask our guests this as we're coming towards the end of an episode. What's for tea, Anna? What are you cooking for tea tonight? Oh, it's Jamie Oliver's chicken and mushroom pie. Oh, is it a good one?

I haven't tried that one. Yeah, it's amazing. I found this on the web. Yeah, it's really good. What was that? that oh that was my apple watch oh sorry well silly could you please shut up and stop interrupting our podcast no it's a really good one it's a good recipe um i actually have just realized that i have to double it now because we're so many bloody people yes it's weird when quantities grow my son has just

sort of moved out of child portion sizes into adult and I'm yeah I keep getting really confused about how much food to give him and our final question for you Anna the weird one that you may well have heard on the podcast already we always ask our guests to imagine that Annie and I are the fifth and sixth children and you're tucking us into bed what is the family lullaby and will you sing it to us please what do you sing when it's middle of the night and someone's awake I'm trying to think it's been a while actually that I've had to do that um rock-a-bye baby no rock-a-bye baby yeah rock-a-bye baby an oldie but a goodie. Yeah. I think I'm like, and I always put their name in.

So I go, rock-a-bye baby on the treetop. When the wind blows, the cradle will rock. When the bell breaks, Alessia will fall. Down will come baby. No, down will come cradle. Is it? Baby, cradle and cradle is it baby cradle and all it's been a while but that would probably be it and I just interchange the names depending on who it is you have a very nice singing voice and I think that could be your plan b thank you that's very nice thank you honestly you really don't want to hear me and

Wendy singing our lullabies. That's one thing we never do on this pod. Well, Anna, thank you so much. You've been a fascinating guest. I love hearing about the inside world of social media and how people create all of their content and how they juggle it along so they're alive. So thank you so much for sharing it with us. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Lovely to talk to you. Thank you, Anna. You too. Thank you. Have a lovely day. Bye. Bye.