The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep22: Rosie Green on how she learnt to thrive - not just survive - as a suddenly single mum

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

When Rosie Green's husband left her and her two children, a friend joked that she'd, 'shagged more people on holiday than Rosie ever had in her life.' So how do you come to terms with life as a single mum - including dating - when you've been with the same guy since you were 18? Listen as Annie and Wendy chat to Rosie Green about breaking up - and how to piece yourself together again so that you emerge happy, strong and a role model for mums everywhere. Rosie's new book,How to Heal a Broken Heart: From Rock Bottom to Reinvention (via Ugly Crying on the Bathroom Floor) is out now (from £7.99, Orion Spring). Follow Rosie at www.lifesrosie.co.uk and @lifesrosie

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Thank you to the sponsor of this episode, Tropicana Lean. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm always looking for bright ideas to keep my family happy and healthy. And that includes moderating the amount of sugar my

kids and me have each day without losing out on taste. Absolutely. Which is why we're loving the new Tropicana Lean, which has 40% less sugar than fruit juice on average, but it's still super tasty. It's available at major supermarkets, so why not add a bottle to your weekly shop? Now, let's meet this week's guest. Welcome to Sweats, Snot and Tears everybody. How are you feeling today? I am feeling teary. Lockdown and homeschooling is getting to me. I am sending love to everyone out there who is feeling the same. Wendy, Sweats, Snot or Tears for you? Tears. Many, many tears. It's 11.07, listeners, and this is the first day in many

that there hasn't been tears over homeschool so far today, but that is entirely because my husband is doing homeschool and not me. I am not a natural teacher. And do we think we'll have his tears soon, Wendy? Oh, I think more likely F-bombs coming from the husband if all this well Russ will our producer will have a job to edit those out exactly go but yeah okay just feeling like every other parent in the country like oh this is tough it's really really tough and I think what I'm experiencing is kind of almost like PTSD I feel re-traumatized remembering what it was like last time. I think I'd kind of

blocked it out. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean, but we're getting there. The end is nigh. We are getting there. Well, I don't know about nigh, but anyway. Well, nigh-ish. It will end one day somehow. It will end, exactly. The highlight of the day, however, is that we have a marvellous guest. And actually, I need to kind of warn all of you, Wendy and I are going to probably fangirl over this person because she is a journalist like us. And when we were working our way up the ranks, she was someone that we greatly admired and looked up to. I don't know if she knows that. I've just told her now though. So apologies if we gush a bit. We are joined today by beauty

editor Supremo, Rosie Green. Welcome, Rosie. Oh, thank you. My God, that's such a lovely thing to hear on this lockdown morning. I know. Well, you have to share the love. You have to share the love. Now, you're also a massive Instagram star at the moment, I would say. Oh, thank you. And the author of a new book called How to Heal a Broken Heart, based on your experience of being left by your husband and the father of your children. But you also bounced back spectacularly, which is something that we, again, admire you for. So first question always to our podcast is, any sweat, snot or tears in your house today, Rosie? Well, do you know what? Actually, this morning, miraculously, there has been no

sweat, snot and tears. And I love the snot and tears thing. It's something that I've always used. And actually on the front cover of the book, it says ugly crying on the bathroom floor, which is what I did a lot of. But it could have easily been snot and tears because, yeah, lots of people will tell you that that is my sort of default look when I'm feeling bad. Lovely. Default setting, snot. Yeah, exactly.

But no, actually, miraculously, the kids, I've got teenagers, so they are at their desks. And my main job is just to keep going in and removing their phones from them and then telling them to turn their cameras on um but so far so good well you say that but off air you said that there might be a touch of a sniffly snot because oh yes because i've forgotten i know i've forgotten already i have the cove as we uh you know jeepers creepers rosie Rosie. I know, I know, which I'm sort of still quite shocked about. I'm shocked that I have the Cove. I'm shocked that I've written a book and I'm shocked that you two think that I'm great.

So I'm really happy this morning. A triple shock whammy. Tell us the Cove story. When did it start? Well, so I've been feeling a bit run down and rubbish, but no more than kind of your normal January, I've eaten too much and drunk too much Christmas type thing and then I just went to put my hand cream on oh my god I'm such a beauty editor on Saturday night when I went to bed and I thought god that's weird

I can't smell it and um so then I obviously went around like went downstairs started sniffing everything and couldn't smell anything so I thought okay I better go and have a test and I went and extremely efficient I have to say went on um and interestingly enough isn't it weird like I hope that I'm a good citizen but it felt so weird like handing over that information to the government like I think I've got cove because then you're like okay I'm signing away my freedom yeah exactly I'm out I've done it and i just drove to this field with lots of traffic cones lots of really nice people like directing me slightly scary you know keep your window down it was a bit like it was a bit like going to a safari park and then they tested me which was not as painful as the tests i've had previously because i have

not that they're painful but i don't know if you guys have had it where they really you have to really go to the back of your throat I haven't had one yet there's a lot of shoving of random yes things down your throat and up your nose yeah and it makes you gag basically which is although she this lady was very good at it and yeah then about 48 hours later I got the positive so lots of people have been dropping stuff off at my door I'm eating my way through the freezer I generally feel okay I'm just paranoid because my mum's next door in an annex and she is compromised so it's just about making sure she doesn't get it so where do you think you got it have you got any clue or is it just too random I think I got it from my son who

was ill over Christmas and I think he must have got it from school I think but this is the conversation we've all had now a thousand times someone says oh I've got it and the first question is how do you feel and then you judge your level of panic based on whether your 30 or 40 something friend feels okay with it or whether they're really poorly and then the next thing is where did you get it yeah and of course none of us have got a bloody clue where we got it really it could It could have been Waitrose. It could have been your son. We just all, it's all we've got to talk about. It's true. It's true. And I, you know, I think if it reassures you, I feel okay. But then I do know people my age and my

kind of fitness and all those things who have really suffered and I guess I'm slightly worried about this kind of sting in the tail because you get the sort of um respiratory stuff later on don't you I think yeah so how many what day are you on now Sunday Monday you know you're a good way through it I think you're gonna get really ill you know by now do you think okay that's good thanks so clearly I'm a doctor and a virologist I actually when I'm just going to interrupt here for anybody who hasn't known her as long as I have known her here we go Annie has spent her life writing to people that you shouldn't use Dr Google because it's not good and what do you do every approximately 33 nanoseconds yeah I know I know but it means I'm helpful to people like Rosie in situations

like this yes because that makes me feel a lot better it does but I also think this will be a whole subcategory of what journalists write and then what they do like it made me laugh so much I know that we I know that we're going to get onto this but in my book about I talk about accelerated weight loss like connected to heartbreak and my friend who's like this super right on health journalist she's all about you, accepting the body you've got and blah, blah, blah. And then she was like, oh my God, you've lost two stone. I'm so jealous. It's like this kind of like these kind of deep sort of conflicting things in our brain, aren't they? I think journalists end up writing about their kind of weak spot. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Oh, then we all write about our neur of weak spot. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, then we all write about our neuroses, definitely. Yeah, because it sucks you in. It's what you're interested in, isn't it? You gravitate towards it. Okay, so we know that now is not a normal time, but what would a morning normally be like in your house, Rosie? How old are the kids now? So they're 13 and 15. And a normal morning is they trot off to school at 7 30 so they are out of the house so there's a sort of panic thing between about 7 and 7 30 normally um and so actually for them this means that they kind of get a lie and they're not they're not going out into the sort of bleak

midwinter at kind of seven o'clock so normally that happens and i have to say i i know this is you know about mums and how we all get through and and actually for me I have to say, I know this is, you know, about mums and how we all get through. And actually for me, I have to say that is just deeply joyous. It's deeply joyous by like 7.40 that I'm sitting with a cup of coffee, staring at my computer, like, you know, with space and time. I love my kids, but I'm like, that is a joy to me. And silence. Blissful silence. Exactly. I mean, we have got a puppy. Well, she's a year now. So she's kind of bouncing around and stuff and so now what I tend to do is like I'll have coffee I'll have a

bit of breakfast and then I'll either be working at home and writing or I'll be on a train you know to London to meet people the reason Wendy and I admired you so much is that you were kind of I would say one or two steps ahead of us in the journalism game when we were young. And your life seemed incredibly glamorous. You were always writing about lovely, wonderful, beautiful things and interviewing lovely, wonderful, beautiful people. But now you've found a new role. You've kind of become the modern face of divorced mums. Can you please catch anyone up who has landed from Mars and doesn't understand what happened to you in a nutshell?

Well, so you're right in one aspect is that in my 20s, I mean, you know, I'm a girl from Birmingham. I loved magazines. I ended up, you know, like you both to get into that game. You have to, you know, there's a lot of sweat and snot and tears to get the lot to get the jobs a lot yeah oh my god so much in the loo i have to say and you know weeping in the loo was how annie and i met yeah in fact the three of us have probably all cried in some of the same loops because i think we've all worked at similar places yeah oh my god i remember i i won uh i got into this game by my lovely friend Fee suggested I enter the Vogue writing competition, which I did.

And I won miraculously. I didn't know you'd won that. That's a really prestigious prize. Well done, Rosie. Thank you very much. I love that. I was like 19 at the time. Who cares? Yeah, exactly. I'll take it. I'll take it. Anyway, I won that and I went and went off and did Camp America after that. And I didn't go to the

prize lunch where they would give the prize and I'm really glad I didn't because I really don't think they'd have given it to me if they'd have clapped eyes on me but anyway I so I remember I went to Fogan and I did my month's work it's because every day I'd go to the public phone box because it was before mobile phones ring my mum and cry so I did you know like every day someone would have said so familiar it's so high pressured in that world isn't it is and you just you know you sort of feel like you're never going to get a job and never going to do that anyway I did manage to get a job and I did end up living you know it was the it was the time of magazine so you know I mean I laugh about it now

but I had breakfast every morning at Claridge's practically like you know I'd meet the Chanel PR the Dior PR you're right I went to New York I went to LA I styled all these photographers I not photographers celebrities um and it was like an amazing amazing life and so I had that and I had this um boyfriend that I met at university and throughout all that he I was kind of living this sort of fancy flitty life and he was the sort of solid lovely guy in the background to that and then I went from L to red and then progressed into a world where I was sort of you know it was more about what Farrow and Ball paint you were choosing and had you know had my lovely children and um ended up being at red and writing this column about our sort of you know perfectly

imperfect life you know the kind of car held together by raisins and you know the sort of transition of of having that life and then going to the mum the mum type life and then you know cottage in the countryside you know all the classic cliches that we did and then yes 2018 um it just all suddenly imploded. You know, I kind of, my husband announced he was, you know, there were various things that I can't be totally upfront about. But effectively he, you know, he behaved in a way that, you know, just nobody ever thought he would behave. He did things that, you know,

nobody ever thought he would do. And, you know, every so often I have to go around and sort of check that with people and just go, you know, it wasn't me that missed that that was coming, was it? And everyone was like, no. You know, it was just sort of super horrific and did things to my self-esteem and my self-confidence and made me question myself and my sanity in ways that I never thought I would. And eventually I ended up writing about it. Well, not eventually, after about three or four months, my red editor said to me, what do you think, do you want to write about it?

And actually for me, it was a way of gaining clarity on the situation because my mind was so kind of messed up about what actually happened, what was the reality, what was his reality. He was saying things to me that I didn't see as true but then you know then everything goes into this weird space so it so for me that was amazing to be able to write about it and the response that I got well yeah as a reader I remember I heard that

you were writing this article and I was like this can't have happened to Rosie this can't have happened to Rosie yeah I remember going out in the evening to a news agents to buy magazines something I haven't done for years because obviously everything's online now yeah and pouring over it and I felt as shocked as you were I was like how could this have happened to Rosie this can't have happened yeah and you know it was so there were there was a total response from people like you who've sort of you know we've all been on the journey together and then there was another massive response from people like you who've sort of, you know, we've all been on the journey together. And then there was another massive response from people who I think, you know, were in a similar situation or had been in a similar situation. And I think, you know, somebody said to me the other day, you know, why do you think there was such a big response? And I said, I think it's because

so many people, you know, understandably don't write that they've been left, they've been dumped, they've been rejected, all those things. Because, God, it's not nice to admit that, is it? Even when you're, you know, when your boyfriend's dumped you at 16, you sort of say, oh, well, I didn't like him anyway. And I was going, you know, it's so much easier on the ego to sort of pretend you've unconsciously uncoupled. And you just buy a new top from Topshop, go out on Friday night and it's all over. Yeah, and especially on social media, there's a massive opportunity to kind of project those, you know, sort of turn the narrative around

and make you look and feel better in what you're saying. But you have been so incredibly candid about it, which is hugely admirable, because like you say, it's not something that comes easily. Did sharing help? Oh my God, it helped massively because, well, even just talking to you guys now, what's quite interesting is that for the first time, it really, really did mess with my confidence and it really did mess with how I perceive things. So I kind of, by sharing it, it meant, A, I felt like I was helping people. It gave me a purpose. And also it meant that I was getting people's feedback and on a massive scale.

So actually that did really help. So I've got a really good friend, Sue, and she went through a similar kind of thing. And still we ring up and we're kind of like, oh, is this right? Is this OK? Is this you know, it's so interesting. I mean, it was the first time I ever discovered the term gaslighting. And now now I'm really familiar with that. I presume you guys are too, are you or not? I don't know how. Yeah. Some of our some of our listeners might not be. So do you want to explain? Yeah. So gaslighting is when somebody, somebody you trust deeply, so you've got a history of trust with them, tells you things that aren't true. And because you have

this relationship with them, it makes you question your own sanity rather than what they're saying, you know, so you just enter this kind of weird twilight world of not quite knowing what's the truth and what isn't. And even two years on, I still kind of have things where I'm like, is that right? Is that not right? And obviously, as things progress and the heat is taken out of our marriage split, then it's become more normal. But there are still things that I question. And do you think you'll ever stop? Or was everything, I guess, the depth of deception was so pervasive that you're always going to question stuff. Is that what you mean? Yeah. I mean, even when you say that, I think,

oh shit, like that looks really bad on him. And, and, you know, was that just his reality? And I had a different reality, but I'll give you an example was that when he left, when he left the family home, he moved quite a long way away. And he said to me, and I said, can I have your address? And he said, why do you want can I have your address and he said why do you want my address that's so controlling that's so indicative of how you've got kids together exactly but that's what I said he said you're just being pathetic so what you were supposed to send your kids to stay with him sometimes and not know where they were well he didn't have them to stay so so he didn't have that but it it was but that that's an example and i was like oh god a is that

controlling and b have i been controlling you know so then there's this whole and you know like we're all with our husbands and we are all controlling to a certain extent aren't we i'm sure you said uh please don't wear that top that's horrendous you know things like that and so then it makes you go back and question all those things well exactly and that makes me think you know I don't think I was any different to any other new word in that scenario that's a very normal question for yeah okay thank you okay good so how does it feel now to be this this kind of projection of the modern face of divorced mums are you proud of that does it feel scary does it feel like a pressure do you still have to pinch yourself

and think god this is me now how's it feel do you know it just I think because we're in lockdown so actually everything's just on a screen it's not it's not generally meeting people who are saying that to me face to face it does feel natural and it feels good. And I feel just really glad to have helped people in similar situations or people without the luck and privilege that I have. I feel really grateful that I have a strong, supportive family. You know, people don't have that, I realise. You know, I feel really grateful that I've got the dog and the kid, so I'm in lockdown and I'm not by myself. You know, I feel really grateful that I've got the dog and the kid. So I'm in lockdown and I'm not by myself. You know, I feel really lucky to have done the work I've got.

So as you say, like every time we're kind of like, oh, I need to help with this. We like write a feature about it, basically. So I feel really lucky and I feel really happy to be able to share that with people. And I do get lots of lovely messages. And in the middles of lockdowns and stuff you know I had started to get to the situation where I go to the supermarket with the kids and you know sometimes somebody would come up to me and say thank you you know that you've really helped me or I'm really listening to your journey oh my god you know

that is amazing so that is amazing does it feel like a pressure you know what it doesn't because I genuinely feel it at the moment. It just all feels sort of authentic. And I mean, there are times when I don't feel like I can post on Instagram. I just don't you know, like I've just got nothing to say or I don't feel in the mood and I haven't. So I haven't got to the stage yet where I feel, OK, I need to do that every day or I need to be this person. So, no, the pressure hasn't hit yet. Maybe it would at some stage, but not at the moment. Oh, that's good. Yeah. So you've clearly been given some lemons by life. Yeah. But you've done more than lemonade. You've made margaritas with them.

Oh, thanks. Have you always been kind of like super resilient or did you surprise even yourself when, apart from the ugly sobbing on the bathroom floor, which is perfectly understandable, did you surprise yourself or have you always been a tough old bird? I think, you know, like all of us writers and creatives, I feel like, you know, we've kind of got one layer of skin less than everyone else. Or, you know, I feel, you know, I feel things pretty deeply. I'm sure you do. So, you know, and also, you know, like if I'm worried that I've offended a friend or I'm worried about, you know, I feel like I'm quite an emotional person. And I always just felt that I needed this kind of rock of a man behind me, you know, to go and be confident to interview Beyonce or to go and style Britney Spears or to go and do those things. I felt like I needed to have that emotional stability

of a very solid relationship. So I thought that without that, I would crumble. I thought it was the one thing that I couldn't deal with. Actually, I thought I could deal with illness or all those other things. So, yeah, I have been so surprised, I'm going blah, blah. And even then I was like, do you know what? I am not going to let this be me. I am not going to, you know, and actually everything imploded at the same time. Like my career actually like massively tanked just before this happened and during it happening. And actually, so I kind of had to really dig deep on both those fronts. It's flipping amazing Rosie seriously like both those things happening at the same time it's like you know what are your chances now I read the book

I read it in one sitting because I absolutely loved it and kind of put it down because I really like that you're really honest and I really wanted to hear your story but I was fascinated by a lot of the experts that you interviewed on the way, like talking about things that I'd never heard of before, like different types of therapies and just, and offering life advice that actually is relevant to anyone sort of our age, whether you're in a relationship or not. I found that really helpful.

But one thing I noticed in the book is that you leave your kids well out of it. Yes. But I know that a lot of mums listening who might be going through this or have gone through it will want to hear, you know, what's your advice for helping your kids when you go through something like this? Is there anything that you can share, not in terms of your personal experience, but anything that works or any advice you found useful? Well, I mean, I think, you know, as women and mothers, we're all worried, don't we, that we never do a good enough job.

And I think there are those, you know, there are those kind of things that people trot out at the beginning that if you can adhere to them are so much better. Like never slag off your partner to them. I mean, you know, I realize that actually they're, you know, kids, as we know, they're very egocentric, aren't they? It's all about them and quite rightly so. And actually, you know, the women that I've talked to in my position, if you ever say to them, oh, look, mummy's having such a hard time, please don't do that, blah, blah, blah, they don't actually, they don't respond to that. They don't want to hear that really.

I think it's about, you know, talk to other people about your pain. You're their mother rather than their friend, you know. I feel like if you can, it's finding other people to do that with and I just you know even though I was on autopilot it's like actually they need three you know they need three meals a day they need all that kind of stuff and I went and early doors couldn't really couldn't sleep and went to the doctor and the doctor said to me you know what you need you know you need antidepressants you need anti-anxiety stuff because you are like a skeleton and you are you know and so actually part of the reason for taking those was them I thought I need to be able to function yeah they needed and that really did help and yeah and that really did help you know that's good advice and actually something people

I think are afraid of going and asking for help with it's something that comes up in our forum a lot people feel kind of on the edge but don't't feel that it's OK to go and ask for help. Or they're scared to. They don't want to because they think it's something they should be able to cope without that help. Yeah. And do you know what? It's really interesting. I think, you know, my editor said to me, my book editor was like, you're missing the kind of pride gene in that, you talking about being abandoned talking about taking the you know still my most uh engaged insta post was about taking

antidepressants because I think yeah it is or one of them definitely I think because um again people don't like to talk about it and um I think or some people don. And I do think it's really important for me that I, you know, I acknowledge their part in my survival and my recovery. And, you know, it's really interesting that the fears that people have about them, some founded, some not, you know, some people, you know, are worried that they'll make them foggy. That hasn't been my experience. Some people are making, well, they're making people on weight. You know, that hasn't been my experience. Some people are um about coming off them and I did have I did try and come off them in the last lockdown I mean that was a bit stupid not great timing Rosie not great when I say the last

lockdown I mean the March one and um I thought oh this is fine and I was just like coming down like to half a tablet or whatever and then a series of things went wrong and I couldn't work out whether they were going wrong because I'd started to come off them or, or that was like making it worse. So, you know, that, that I am a bit anxious about. I do want to come off them at some stage, not really because I have any side effects, but I am a bit fearful of that process. But interestingly, I interviewed a psychologist once about something along this line. And she said, why are you so keen to come off them? Because she said, and I'm sure I'm rolling out stuff people have heard a thousand times. But if a GP told you you were diabetic and you had to take insulin, you wouldn't suddenly say, well, I need to come off it now.

You're so right. She says there are some people who just have serotonin fluctuation and they might need to take a small dose of something for the rest of their life. And actually, why is there this big stigma about that? What's wrong with that? Yeah, and I don't know what the long-term negatives are. I know that if you really, well, I don't know, Dr. Google again, but from family experience, if you're someone that really suffers with major depression, I know that they generally try and switch you about, don't they? I guess my thing is that I had never been depressed.

And so this was as a result of a trauma, I guess. So therefore, I generally didn't have those serotonin problems before and there are some side effects like there's some sexual side effects and then there's there's a kind of you know like I'd have these sort of night sweats and then I was like god is that the menopause or is that that I don't think it was the menopause because they were literally they literally started turned on yeah yeah god listeners don't listen to us we're all as bad as each other yeah disclaimer we're not doctors again yeah exactly now I have to ask you this like you've posted some things on your Instagram a Daily Mail article you wrote about in female about kind of that you couldn't throw

away all of his clutter for example yeah what does he make of all of this you've kind of moved your career on on the basis of the fact that he dumped you and was an arse yeah he basically did you a massive favor that's what amanda byron said that's one of the titles of the book isn't it she likes to swear amanda byron i loved that section of your book she's amazing isn't she she is amazing and actually it's quite interesting to me how you know people i think can be quite sort of dismissive of of people that have kind of made it on telly like you know they're just in the right place at the right time but i mean god that's not true these people whenever i met lisa snowden recently she's amazing too they're just really engaging warm friendly clever people

actually amanda byam's a real thinker isn't she and she really she is about yeah and she's really honest about you know she was about to get married and um literally pulled the plug i think at the last minute which i think was horrendous i mean that's a very brave thing to do yeah she is but she was like she said to me in her brilliant irish accent oh we did i can't do it he did you a massive fucking favor and you know maybe he did you know there are still times when i just feel really sad i feel really sad that that happened for the kids it is sad though that's appropriate isn't it that is sad it is yeah that's okay but does he ever like message you and say what have

you said about me shut up yeah exactly he's like god i mean it's like choking on his cornflakes with the um with the mail you know um no he it's hilarious we actually just sort of really skirt around that and then occasionally like there was a day where i'd written something and it was like i mean literally on the front cover of the mail i know his you know his parents get the mail or whatever. So I'm sure they, I'm sure they know. Retribution. Yeah,

exactly. We're having a polite conversation in the kitchen. Would you like a cup of tea? Yes, fine. So actually the answer to that is no, we just, we just like ignore it.

Like the big elephant in the room. Well, I'm glad, you know, he can't shut you up. This is your reality. This is your life. This is your truth.

And you're perfectly goddamn entitled to it. Thank you very much. Well, thank you. Yes. If he said anything mean to you, there's an army of women now fighting for you, Rosie. I know.

It's funny. When you type in, my friend said to me, when you type in Rosie Green into Google, the second thing that comes up is Rosie Green's husband. You know,

he might be getting some, he might be getting some attention by, by women who are like, oh, I quite like the idea of that. The, you know he might he might be getting some uh he might be getting some attention by by women who are like oh I quite like the idea of that the uh you know that's brilliant but come on then tell us about the fun part which is newly single mum dating yes I know so I mean that was hilarious in that I I think in the book I referenced my daughter she had two rabbits that escaped and she was really upset for like, you know, 48 hours. And it was almost just something she couldn't quite say.

And then I realised that she just actually wanted some more rabbits. You know, she was like, I've done the morning period now. I need some more rabbits. And I thought, well, maybe, you know, I'm someone that really likes being in a relationship. You know, I kind of love that. And, you know, we got together at 18, my husband and I.

So I had minimal, you know, I'd done quite a lot of flirting, but I'd never, I've never been on dates. I'd never, you know, my experience is very low. And, and actually a friend of mine said to me, you know, I've shagged more people on one holiday than you have in your entire lifetime. And I was like, that is about it. So I, you know, got a few Instagram DMs and stuff from sort of generally quite age-inappropriate guys when I've been in the times or whatever and I went out on this date with this like cute photographer who was like at least a decade younger than me so that was really good fun yeah you know we ended up snogging in like the groucho club by like you know exactly well exactly I needed to have snogged in the the Groucho Club by like, you know. As all good journalists do.

Exactly. Well, exactly. I needed to have snogged in the Groucho Club and I hadn't. So I popped that cherry. And then that kind of, you know, obviously ran its course. And then with my brilliant friend Nadine went to, she's Nadine Baggett. She's like, you know Nadine, so she does all her skincare stuff. And we went off to some starvation uh

clinic and which obviously I really didn't need at that point uh but I was but it was like nice sort of Austrian fresh air and all that stuff and signed up to you know the app called Hinge which in the sort of hierarchy of apps for midlife women I would say was to me is probably the best one a good tip single ladies out there exactly it is because I think actually I have a boyfriend I know putting that out and he rather brilliantly uh did this sort of analogy of all the dating apps and he was like you know hinges that hinges the waitrose you know bumbles this bumbles the Sainsbury's, blah, blah, you know, tinders the Lidl, you know. Oh, my God, that is genius.

And then, you know, like, Raya, which is the one you have to be a celebrity to be on, is like, you know, Planet Organic or whatever. But wait, wait, wait, you've revealed something now. I've got a boyfriend. I need to ask. Back up. How after being railroaded and you know dumped on in the way that you were do you trust anyone again how does that work you know that's so

interesting I kind of trust isn't really my issue actually weirdly I don't know why that is like trust as in if someone's gonna cheat because I almost just think now I've got to the stage like if someone's gonna go off they're gonna go off like in in a way like this did me the most massive favor it did because you proved yourself that you can survive yeah I can survive and I don't I don't need to hold on so tight to that actually which is right which is amazing like that's the biggest thing it's given me I think I mean I think there are a whole load of other challenges like you know we've both got kids we've both got busy lives we both live far apart you know I was a bit naughty on my hinge profile I put London rather

than I live out in the shires so so actually you know there's distance between us but in a way it's like oh well that's kind of could be quite perfect I could go and hang out in London a couple of days a week and then you know live in the country for the rest of it and you know so there are different challenges definitely and for me I guess my biggest fear is that I do I and actually when you talk about pressures that does feel a bit like a pressure in that I you know I don't want to look like a dickhead if it you know I don't want to be like here am I you know with my gorgeous boyfriend and then you know like two weeks later go well so you're keeping him off insta then are you going to keep it under wraps no I'm going to

well I've talked to you about it I am going to talk about it it makes me a bit nervous but I do think actually I've been authentic in the rest of the journey so why wouldn't I be authentic in that I guess I guess also I'm a bit wary of kind of upsetting people who haven't got to that point in the journey but actually I think they probably I think they'll probably like to see that I think so actually you know I think like yeah why are why haven't I done that yet I will do it soon definitely okay I'm excited good okay come on what do the kids make of all of this yeah well you know I mean honestly it's are they just mortified that mum's got a boyfriend so in the sort of journey of men I had this photographer that I went out with and then I had this guy who I'm sort of seeing for a bit and he he was exactly

the similar stage so we just did lots of sort of snogging, but it was never like, you know, it was never exclusive. And then I did go out with this guy for like six months, which was lovely. And we went out to dinner and went on holiday. We did all these great things. But actually that sort of died in the March lockdown. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

If one of my children's phones rang on my laptop. Is it the voices in your head again, Annie? That's what it is. Can I just actually, can i pause for two minutes and go and tell them not to let that happen again one second you're doing very well both of you with no intro because how old are your kids mine are five and nine oh wow okay um and annie's annie and i managed to have our children eight hours to the minute apart so we've both got nine year olds it was hilarious I texted him and was like oh my god I've had a baby and she was like shit and I was two weeks early and she was two weeks late it was ridiculous so her daughter is six

so we've both okay proper little ease at home oh that is hardcore actually I have to say I really feel for you I mean that is it's I have to say I really feel for you I mean that is it's a whole different level of pain I think yeah and we added a lockdown puppy who is a stupid retriever to the mix so I've also got an eight month old 30 kilogram retriever oh my god you went big I went little but I have to say I've never known love like it I love well I got totally done, you see. My neighbour breeds them and he's the one with the gimpy paw. And so my daughter was like, mummy, can we have him?

And, you know, I was just like, yes, we can have him. And now we've got the gimpiest dog in the village. You've got the tiny Tim of the puppy world. We have. He's a total twat. Sorry about that. sorry about that sorry about that right so I get that it's cool for you but what do the kids think about mum dating are they like oh my god that's totally gross or are they cool with it I'm sure they do think it's totally gross um I think uh as we said before like any mother you sort of like massively worry about these kind

of things and you know I massively for them their whole world was so rocked the idea that a parent could leave I think was so traumatic to them and so for me I think I have to be really careful that they never think that I'm leaving or in any danger of not being there for them um I mean my daughter was so funny she said to me so I saw a guy for like six months probably you know this time last year and uh we went on holiday together and she said to me um mum are you gonna have sex with him and I was like oh my god okay like oh my god and so while I was while I was sort of processing that she then came up with her she told she also had a little think about then she went well you can do

it once for your self-esteem oh thank you darling that's kind of you much for that so obviously you know they're at the stage where they're thinking about sex and all that kind of stuff so that's that you know that's mine haven't got that far yet five and nine we're still firmly in just cbb's land cbb's which is great leave it there but you know so that's hilarious i've got two teenagers and me you know and actually you know in the book i write about sex and it's sort of like a kind of sexual odyssey for me. I kind of, I'm never, I feel like I've entered a new grown up world of sex, basically, where I can talk about it without giggling most of the time. You know, a lot of the time there is some giggling. So, you know, this house is full of hormones, basically. But much, you know, answer your question seriously. They I do worry about it for them. I do feel it's a road that I try to tread carefully. Do I get it right? I don't know. I hope so. Interestingly, I think a lot of their fears around me dating were obviously I was sad when the six month thing came to an end. No, not, you know, in a sort of proportionate way but they don't like

seeing any kind of vulnerability I mean in that sense they want me to be strong they want me to be there for them so I sort of feel that any relationship has to be you know I can't be like wailing into my cornflakes at night you know no cornflakes at night oh yeah that is one of the best things about living by yourself is you get to have cornflakes for tea yes you can do whatever the hell you like yeah yeah it's true and you know my daughter's wants to be a vegetarian slash pescatarian so actually the meal shift you know it was like every day diligently serving up spag bol and you know blah blah and now it's like my poor son you know struggles to get enough calories in but you, you know, we eat these, you know, we eat lovely meals that we, you know, feel much more kind of

what we want to eat. That's nice. So if you had to send out a message to someone who, let's say, the bomb has dropped on them this week. Oh, yeah. What would you say? I would say reach out to people. Don't suffer in silence, you know, maybe when it first happens, keep that quite small, that group, because you just don't know what's going to happen, you don't know whether you're going to make it through or not. But I would say, you know, do not sit there alone with the echo chamber of your thoughts, because you need the clarity of other people. I would say, you know, if you're really struggling, go to the doctor. You know, I feel like actually that really helped me, the sort of

sleeping pills and the anti-anxiety meds and all that sort of stuff. And then kind of make your world small, you know, do put yourself in a kind of comfort zone, you know, wear comfy clothes, all those kind of little things that you don't think will make any difference at all I have this aromatherapy wall yeah that's in the book isn't it things about like make your life comfortable I love that that's such a nice idea if anything happens that's not very nice to you that's what you should do shouldn't you absolutely like my friend Viv said you know be kind to yourself and you can't imagine that these things will make a difference but actually in the moment lying in a warm bath with nice aromatherapy oils,

let people help you. I think people want to help you. People, you know, people dropped off like meals for me and the kids. They took me on holiday. They did all those things. I think I'm really lucky in my friendships, but you know, just allow people to help you allow people to look after you you know we've all you know I had messages from people who'd been my assistants and stuff that makes me feel really old and work experience people saying you know you were kind to me you know it's like we are kind to each other allow this to be your time when you're kind to people when people are kind to you that's so nice, something we always ask towards the end of a podcast interview is, and I think this is really interesting, asking it of you, because you're

someone who essentially has undergone this huge kind of journey of growth and transformation in front of the world's eyes. How do you want to be remembered, Rosie Green? Oh, thank you um I would just like to be remembered as someone that is kind of open and honest and authentic so you know that that to me feels like something I can give to the world you know to be open and honest about it and I guess I just want to be remembered as someone who's kind like I that to me is like the nicest human trait there is. So I just, if people can remember, you know, that way, then I'll feel really proud of myself. That's good. I like that one. Much less deep and meaningful.

What's for tea? What's for tea? Oh my God. Well, my friend Jodie has just done a Cove drop off. So there's chicken breasts. So what I will do, chicken breasts, I will cut those up and i've got one of those spice curry packs you know i think i can't remember what them from

from the supermarket you know where you you sort of it's like one above a curry sauce do you know what i mean yeah it makes you feel a bit a notch up makes you feel like you've done some cooking when you really haven't you've opened three packets rather than one, right? Yeah. And then my daughter will have that with prawns because I have to say, I've been spending more on food during this lockdown. Oh my God, I've just seen one magpie. That was going to be the title of my book, One Fucking Magpie.

So now I have to do the 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, five, five, five. Best advice I was ever given by a mental health professional I was interviewing once was, oh, for God's sake, let the superstitions go. They don't mean anything. All they do is add to your anxiety. So let it go.

Let the magpies go. It's just a bird. It's just a bird. It's quite a beautiful bird as well. Really? I'll have that. Well, yeah, it does look quite beautiful from here. I'll have that and my son will have that

and then my daughter will have the prawn equivalent, which I realise sounds quite decadent, but that's it. I'm not spending any money on anything else, quite frankly. Well, I'm impressed. Thanks. Yeah. Now, the last question.

We always ask this question. Nobody loves it. Everybody hates us for it, but we ask it anyway. Every family, and I know you've got teenagers, but every family has that song that they sing their kids when they're anxious or they're trying to get them to sleep at night so rosie green sing us your lullaby oh my god i'm the worst uh singer no you're not allowed to say that because annie and i are the worst yeah we hold

that we wear that crown so you can't have that oh do you know what the song is probably not really a lullaby but the song that i that i sing to my son and massively embarrass it myself about is that um i think it's drake's song and he says i only love my mama my bed and my mama i'm sorry and i love that i love the idea that he's gonna say to some girl i just love my mama my bed so you know do one quite frankly i love it i think that's our best lullaby yet yeah you've beat ronan keating there rosie oh my god you've had ronan keating on i feel like oh yeah we had our last lullaby was paloma faith sang oh jesus god i feel very lucky to be in such you've not been i've got to tell you sorry sorry about Sorry about that. No chance. She was, her singing, she finished singing and there was this pause where we were like,

shit, we're supposed to say something. Oh my God. And can I just share with you both that I'm looking at my shellac having grown out on my toenails massively, which is I think a P45 for a beauty editor. So I don't know what to do about that. No, I think you've balanced it out by noticing you had Covid by not being able to smell your hand cream you don't you can't get more beauty editor than that that's peak beauty ed brilliant thank you that is actually I must remember that that you've just you've just helped me there that's got to be a good bit of content right

Rosie Green can I say a massive thank you to you not just for this lovely interview um but for just being an all-round inspiring good sport we need more rosie greens in the world oh we do thank you well thank you both and it's just been such a pleasure and actually i've just you're gonna you've set me up for the day i feel really amazing so thank you good luck with the covid i hope it goes soon thank you and And good luck with your homeschooling. Oh, God, help us all. Thank you. All right.

Thanks, Rosie. See you later. Bye. Take care. Bye. This episode is sponsored by Tropicana Lean, a new juice drink which has 40% less sugar than fruit juice on average, but is still full on taste.

There are three delicious flavours to choose from. Citrus fruit, tropical fruit and mixed berries. My personal favourite is the mixed berries, so I might be hiding that one from the kids. Tropical Naline is available at all major supermarkets. Why not give it a go?