The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep24: Dermot O'Leary on life as a new dad... when you're trying to get your next book written!

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

Listen as Annie and Wendy catch up with Annie's cousin Dermot (no, not really) on all things new baby, new book and whole new world in response to Covid. From the kids' books Dermot loved as a kid to the baby books he's loving reading to Kasper, Dermot gets his bookworm geek on ... and we loved every single second of it. We hope you do, too.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollich. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Thank you to the sponsor of this episode, Tropicana Lean. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm always looking for bright ideas to keep my family happy and healthy. And that includes moderating the amount of sugar

my kids and me have each day without losing out on taste. Absolutely. Which is why we're loving the new Tropicana Lean, which has 40% less sugar than fruit juice on average, but it's still super tasty. It's available at major supermarkets, so why not add a bottle to your weekly shop? Now, let's meet this week's guest. Welcome to Sweat, Snot and Tears this lovely sunny wintry day everybody. I was feeling a little ropey I would say a little bit sweaty slash teary this morning but I ate a salad for lunch and now I feel brand new so I think salads could be the key to lockdown Wendy how are you feeling I was feeling ropey until we went bum sledging down a hill oh not

on a sled just on your bottom just well my daughters were bum sledding it's called bum boggling and it was great fun until one of them crashed into a hedge and then it was less fun. So I'm feeling quite pleased that we got outside and did some fun stuff. And now I'm really excited to talk to your cousin. Yes. So everyone, we decided to keep it in the family this week. And I've invited one of my cousins on the show. You might have heard of him, but don't be sad if you haven't. His name is Dermot O'Leary. Dermot, welcome. Hey, cuz. How are you?

I'm good. How are you doing? Nice to speak to you. You don't see that many O'Learies. No, not enough. Well, no, there's plenty of us, but we don't need any more. But you don't see that many. Well, obviously in Ireland, we're ten a penny, aren't we? But over here, it's nice to speak to another O'Leary. Where are your family from?

I was going to ask you the same. are from Waterford what about you wow just up the road Wexford town oh well there we go well I might have some answers there yeah that is proper related well apparently it's originally a cork name so originally it is I was once in a restaurant in cork and when they heard my name they waved the bill because they said we were the kings of Cork. Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious. Literally, that's so Irish. That's such a brilliantly Irish story. I know, and I was like, really?

Because everyone's nagging. Okay. There's going to be so many O'Leary's down there. They'll be like, that restaurant cannot be in business now. Well, no, but he was a very nice man. He can't make a profit. Exactly.

And your name? My name's O'Leary too. Oh, great. They can't make a profit. Exactly. And your name? My name's Eluri too. Oh, great. Go on out of here. Wendy, what's your surname? Well, my surname is Gollage, which is tricky because I've been known to get letters to Wendy Slurridge before, which is always appealing. Oh, Wendy.

That's not good. No one can spell it. No one knows how to spell it. What does Gollage mean? What's the origin? Yeah, where's it from? Who knows? We keep trying to find out.

I need to do one of those Who Do You Think You Are programmes. Oh, do you know that would be my dream to go on that show. Dermot, have you been on it? They actually researched my family for about three months and came back and went. And bear in mind, you know, Wexford is a port town, right?

Yeah, lots of cummings and goings. Exactly. And my family are all seafaring folk and i have it on good authority that two of them went to america one of them was a a police officer and the other was a judge they both got killed by the mafia in the 30s oh my god i know they couldn't find any record of this and they came back and went there's just not enough interesting stuff about your family oh no hang on a minute what are you talking about they've gone everywhere that we see we're we're a family of sailors um so how in the world i know i just don't think they were trying hard enough

that's the ultimate insult no there's nothing else to say it's absolutely awful gutted my friend though i've got a dear friend called i've ever deal who's david deal's brother right and when they and this is such a great mother story when they went on um when they went on who do you think you are uh the mom um and she's sadly passed away now i met her a couple of times she was lovely and she uh she was really interesting so she was born in nazi germany and they and she got out as a child as a baby and she had a swastika on her passport and it's this extraordinary story and so her story is like unbelievable enough and they were they were sat around the table with the researcher and uh i'm sure i've heard

my telling you and then she said well of course i always believed that um she was just this great kind of jewish mother yet i always believed that my uh my uncle was actually my father and everyone turned around went you've never said this before what are you talking about and she went no well i i can you believe it so they went down that that route obviously and started researching it and at the end they came back and went you know we've extraordinary life and stuff but we haven't found any record that your uncle could have been your father and she said wow well i know it is i know it's true and i and david are looking at going it's talking absolute nonsense which is just that great kind of mother thing where they go, I'll give you something and... Yeah, something beyond your wildest dreams, kids.

Yeah, yeah. Or just derail the conversation. But no, sadly, I've never been on it. But I'll tell you what you can do, Wendy, is you get those DNA tests. They're really interesting as well. I did one and I had quite a scandalous finding in mine. Oh, go on.

So my family were supposedly on both sides as Irish as Irish can be. Back to like time began. Back to the time of St. Patrick. And I had quite a significant portion of Indian blood. Interesting. I know. Especially seeing as two generations of my dad's family were posted to India in the 1800s. Well, there we go.

I know. Scandalous. Love that scandal. There's nothing that exciting in my lot. But you don't know. You won't know unless you do the test. They've never left Wiltshire, none of them. They're all from Wiltshire.

Seriously? You've never left Wiltshire? No, they haven't. It's like they don't have a passport to leave Wiltshire, the lot of them. Wiltshire's a fine county. It is. It's a very fine county. Why leave? Maybe they've just discovered there have a passport to leave Wiltshire, the lot of them. Wiltshire's a fine county. It is. It's a very fine county.

Why leave? Maybe they've just discovered there's no reason to leave. Well, maybe. I've not been allowed to go back for seven months or however long it is. I know. That's the sad thing about all of this, isn't it? So, right, we're supposed to ask you the same question as we ask everyone every week on the Podderma.

Oh, yeah, go on. Because our podcast is called Swe not in tears have you seen or heard or experienced any sweats not with tears in your house this morning oh god yeah um share it what have we had we haven't we haven't had any sweat we've we've had a little bit it's not i kissed my son this morning and then realized i was sort of just kissing his drool and saliva and i was oh that's so disgusting um and i'm lucky luckily we're really closely related uh and tears no he's actually he's really good there haven't been any tears this morning he's been he's not a particularly teary baby uh to be fair to him we had a lucky man there's a there's a window a finite window between i pulled the we had a lucky man there's a there's a window a finite window between i pulled the early one this morning so there's a finite window between

nappy change and first milk of the day and clever clever boy get the food in if you don't get yeah exactly if you don't get in that window with the milk then it can go yeah they're not proper tears they're tears like that he's crying literally up until he gets the bottle in his mouth and then all tears dissipate then we go into the period of what i call what we call dramatic hands where his hand just comes up the side of his head like a singer from the new romantic era sort of strokes his head like i don't know brian ferry or something and then um and fall for love or something and then and then just and then just gets really into the milk. So yeah, he's not a crier. That's good.

How old is he now, Dermot? He's seven months. Ah, so yeah, I think you're doing all right. Yeah, you're not at the twatty toddler stage yet. See, Wendy has a thing. Wendy has a thing about toddlers. I love a toddler. Give me a toddler any day of the week.

Yeah, it's kind of weird because when you've, I mean, I've always loved kids, but when you've not lived with one before you're you're just I like that you make it sound like he's your housemate we saw it all the stages are just so interesting aren't they I mean I yeah I never understood a lot of my friends said uh guy friends said that the first few months is quite boring for men I never got that I really enjoyed the first few months is quite boring for men. I never got that. I really enjoyed the first few months of just staring at them and actually just spending time with them. And, you know, yeah, they're not focusing on you and stuff. But I didn't mind that, to be honest with you.

I really, really enjoyed the first few months. Well, that brings me on to the next question, actually, because I was going to ask how your lockdown is going. And has it, do you think, given you more time to spend with him and just to chill? I'm not joking. I mean, look, it's always difficult when you ask this question, irrespective of whether you're on telly or not. It's just because we all know that the backdrop of this is so hideous. And no one wants to, you feel almost guilty that you have any any any kind of like any gripes yeah and you

you feel guilty also that you have that you don't want to drive too much pleasure from the from the but i genuinely believe that with this you know we've never experienced anything like this as a world before so you've got to take your positives where you can and not feel guilty about taking your positives where you can um and so my positive is that a i've i've still been in work and work has given me an incredible amount of focus and discipline and happiness and b you know we've we've had a child and that's been the greatest well it's the greatest thing we've ever done as a couple and and and as parents and as adults so you know i've got i can't all. You know, my family are all healthy, thank God. And, you know, I want my mum and dad to get the vaccine.

Have they not had it yet? I was going to say. No, it's not really rolled out in Ireland yet. So we're sort of waiting for that. But it's been, you know, it's been an incredible time because I've been able to spend a lot of time with our child. And had the pandemic not been here, I'd definitely have taken some paternity but um

there's no way I've been able to have and I've spoken to a few friends who have had kids in lockdown um and they all sort of feel the same obviously it's a terrible time but you like I said take your positives where you can you know and that's definitely been one it's it's you know we feel sort of privileged and blessed to be able to spend the time we can with him and we have with him. But has it been tough, like not being able to, grandparents obviously can't really come over and see him and you can't throw him at the grandparents when you're on five minutes peace as well. Has that been tough? It's been weird because we don't really have anything to compare it to. Dee's dad is in Norway and my parents are both in Ireland. So it's not like they'd be on our doorstep anyway.

Anyway, yeah. Dee's mum is in Broadstairs. So that's a bit more tangible. And so, but it is tough not being able to see them. And we both got, we were lucky. We both, when lockdown lifted and the travel ban, so that period we had of, I don't know what, three, four months, something like that last year,

we were able to skedaddle to Norway and my parents came over here so they've met him and everything and yeah I think it's really tough on them in particular but you know you've got to keep positive and fingers crossed they'll be able to see him soon yeah I know what you mean about the thinking positive I was I've invented a new thing that I haven't told my family about yet that I'm going to make them all do tonight around the dinner table which is I know but look I've got to get my kicks where I can I was going to make them all bring some good news to the table yeah I like it but do you know I mean I just feel the need for just a bit of light relief yeah but can you imagine me getting a five-year-old to bring good news to the table yeah Flo's only six she's not going to bring much better is she but let's

see what they come up with I I'll tell you next week. You're going to have a great time. What are you talking about? That's a great idea, Annie. Thank you, Dermot. Yeah, all right, all right. Shall I just go and let you two carry on? You are right.

It is a good idea, though. Don't you think? Yeah, it is. I'm being a sarcastic K-bag. I'll shut up. Go on, Annie. You've got another exciting thing happening now. In the next phase of lockdown, you've got another new thing happening now in the next phase of lockdown

you've got another new book coming out haven't you Mr. Dermot yes that's right about Toto again yeah absolutely so it's kind of weird

because I'm in that period at the moment where this morning I'm halfway through the fifth book so my head's in the fifth book oh right but now

you've got us to talk about the other one and now I'm doing yeah and now I'm chatting about the fourth don't give anything away don't give anything away from book five will you okay for the fourth or the yeah this is really this is like when you interview people on plot

spoilers and stuff on the radio and telly and you're like oh god because in the era of binge watching we're all going through like we had i really love the bay and we i don't know if you've seen the tv show the bay with morgan christie it's terrific no oh it's brilliant and uh two series of it and uh we had two of the actors a couple of weeks ago on this morning but i'd binge watched it and there was this massive plot twist halfway through episode two or three and and so it's so difficult to sort of navigate through this interview without going when your character oh shut. So the story is this. Anyone, I don't know if you guys are okay with the whole background of the story,

but I'll tell you. So we have two, now we have three cats. Sadly, one of our cats passed away a couple of years ago, but we have two cats now. But the story in my books is centered around our three cats, who Toto, who's blind, Silva, Toto's brother, who sadly passed a couple of years ago but it's

still living on in the books and uh socks uh her adopted younger brother from from battersea now toto and silver are both from it both from italy my wife okay wait i need to ask this question first before we go anywhere how do you get cats from italy how did that happen did you go and bring them back i don't it's hard but it is possible so we've got a little villa down in the south in a place called pulio that we love pulio right isn't it oh and we go in there like 10 15 years and we bought a place ages ago it was a like falling apart and we've done it up and it's we rent it out and we just sort of it's a holiday home we love it and uh it's our sort of second place really and we just sort of go there whenever we can and then to wipe its nose and uh we make sure we rent it out so we um so we were down there about eight nine years ago and

this it's kind of middle of nowhere and there's a lot of wild animals around and there's this lovely cat called Plaxi who was staying and we named her after one of our guests uh friends of ours rented it out uh Locatelli's you know Giorgio locatelli the chef and his wife plexi so we named the cat after plexi because the plexi had dark hair and the cat turns up just around the same time so we started calling the cat plexi and around easter time me and d were there with our i think we're there on our own with our families and um plexi was heavily pregnant and i had to come back a day early for work and uh d stayed and plexi had a kittens in our room pretty much in our pillowcase with d exactly with d there as uh as a cat midwife midwife we were going to get a dog

that year so these four kittens came out next door over there took a couple and we thought well this is serendipity so we we were going to get pet anyway so we looked into it and you can fly them back i think it's ba or elitalia one of them fly i think it's ba you can fly animals back with a pet passport so we got the we friends of ours looked after them for a couple of months and then we flew them back and they got here in july 2013 it's very cool i like that brilliant so we realized though that toto very early doors couldn't really see too well and she was bumping into things and so we we had a diagnosed and checked out and she was she's kind of got 95 blindness and maybe five percent vision but she sees breaks in light

and she sees you she can you can play with her and react to her she'll react to you yeah so very quickly we started calling her the little ninja and then and that's where the idea came from is that is the idea that during the day she's this kind of uh very chilled quite lazy blind cat and then the evening and night her and silver go out with their with with her friends and uh and essentially solve crimes so she works she's she's a member of an ancient international order of ninja cats. The head of the UK branch of which is Larry, who works at 10 Downing Street, who's a real cat. Larry the 10 Downing Street cat.

You've had fun with this, haven't you? Oh, 100%. I've loved it. And you know what I've really loved, Wendy, is going from the first book where you introduce the cats to then. And what I didn't estimate would have such an impact on me was when you go and do book tours or readings and you meet the kids and then they know more about it than you do. Because you know how brilliantly geeky kids are. They'll go, in chapter four and book two, when you said... Yeah, and you're like, did I write that?

What kind of read were they? And you're like, what? Yeah, really testing your character development there absolutely but they love the character development and that's the thing i think i've enjoyed most is developing these characters over four books uh five books now so the first book um uh was kind of them discovering london and they they met their best friend who's this chap who's a kind of cross species rat cat he's this rat who looks like a cat and obviously cats are cooler than rats so he's decided to live his life

as a cat but uh he's actually rat royalty uh so his nickname's cat face but his uh his real name is alexander ratnoff the 33rd and he's from a very distinguished uh north london uh rat family and he will he's essentially heir to to become the king of one of the five rat families of London. They all live subterranean. So he's their best friend. He's kind of like, if you can imagine a Richard E. Grant, Stephen Fry style character with a cravat and a kind of a tweed suit. That's kind of his vibe. I can feel a TV adaptation coming on.

Oh, yeah. So he's kind of his vibe i can feel a tv adaptation coming on oh yeah so he um so he's yeah so he's kind of their guide around london and then so the first story is the king cobra escapes from london zoo which is the most venomous snake in london zoo and they have to track it down and catch it because they think it's going to decimate the animal population of north london although it's not what it seems the second book every single piece of cheese in the uk uh gets kidnapped and goes missing on the eve of an international peace conference where if cheese isn't available then almost all out war. Do you take some sort of hallucinogenic drugs when you're writing this? Hang on a sec it gets weirder the third book is based around the annual animal music festival

of catstonbury where they go down yes of course it is and uh and there's a kind of there's some some strange uh goings on afoot and the fourth which i have in my hand right now is the toto the ninja cat and the mystery jewel thief so which is the animal indiana jones well the animal world spectacular crown jewels are kept under lock and key in the tower of london guarded by ravens but when toto goes to be I'm literally reading the back of my own book. When Tota goes to visit them, they're stolen from right under her whiskers and her boss, Larry, is framed for the crime.

So will her and her friends be able to solve the mystery and track down the real thief, the nipsist? Exactly, exactly. But I have to ask, how did you get from adopting some kittens and them coming to the UK to writing this as a book? I've heard you've got a bit of a track record as an author and you used to write mini mystery stories. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My poor father.

My dad came over from Ireland in the late 60s with my mum. And then, you know, like a lot of that generation, you know, we're the first generation really that we've been able to kind of follow our dreams. I mean, that generation, you work hard, you get a job, you stay in that job, kind of cradle to grave stuff. So my dad came over with nothing, worked on building sites, paid for his way through night school, ended up getting a master's in business, and then worked for BT for about 30 years.

It was never really, his job never really defined what he, what the person he was, you know, he was not accountancy or whatever it is he worked in. It wasn't his, it wasn't his passion. His calling. No, but he was a hardworking guy. He's a hardworking guy and he did really well. And, uh, you know, we worked, we sort of, we didn't grow up with an awful lot, but he did really well as he went on and anyway the reason i say this is because he used to work a lot from home so he would have this kind of one of the first old mac computers and they'd have like this big printer and loads of paper he sounds so like my dad i swear they actually are related but right so my so he had all this paper so he'd come have to sort of come home and maybe use the computer

from time to time and i would and i just so I just had loads of papers so I could write my stories. So I used to write them. And then I'd go around our estate and just outside Godfrey and knock on doors and just sell really 10-year-old detective fiction for 5p. Did you make a profit, dare we ask? Well, I mean, the great thing for me was that everything was a profit because I had no outgoings whatsoever. You hadn't even bought the paper. Right.

So I had a few, yeah, I definitely got a couple of bags of sweets off the back of it, I suppose. But so I've always had that bug. And then you start working in telly and I was always really, I think with my job, part of the knack of my job is being really honest with viewers and listeners. Don't treat them like idiots and don't bullshit them. So I was always, well, an extension of that is then you at least co-write your own scripts. You can't really write your own scripts because you haven't got time to write your own scripts and do the show.

And you're on a fast turnover live show but I from the very early stage I wanted to sort of make sure that what I was saying was my own words so that's kind of always been my mantra and so talking about Ivor Ivor Badil's the guy I write with so I'd say David's brother is the guy we sit down so we wrote we you know every episode of X Factor we wrote you know and we're not talking war and peace here but it's just it you know it doesn't sound like an awful lot, but actually it kind of, it does make a difference, I think, when people sort of listen to and watch you, that those words are your words. And yeah.

Absolutely. So I've always written. And then the year I wasn't doing X Factor, I woke, I remember, I remember waking up when I realised I wasn't going to do it anymore and thinking, right, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? Okay, what wasn't going to do it anymore and thinking, right, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? Okay, what do you want to do?

You've got a bit of time now and you don't have to rush to get back into work, thankfully, and you're blessed like that. So what do you want to do? And one of the things I really wanted to do, I had about two or three ideas for books. One was a kid's book and a couple of young adult books. And I went into a publisher I worked before because I did this kind of 10-15 years um kind of tv or last 20 years I guess tv kind of

memoir-y kind of book a couple it wasn't really a biography but it was kind of it was actually about music uh so I went to the same publisher um Hachette and said look I've got these ideas and I and they were obviously who I am and what I've done has got me through the door. But, you know, they're no mug. So they said, go away, work on it, come back with a chapter plan. And I pitched it. And then they, I'll never forget,

they said, great, look, we really like the idea. We want to sign you on a two-book deal. And I remember shaking hands and going, that's great, wonderful, thank you. And I left the office, shut the door and went, I've got one idea for one book. I don't have a two. What are you talking about?

That's really scary. There's nothing scarier than a blank piece of paper, right? The second book block. It's a famous thing. So, but for me, I really, really enjoyed the process of writing the first one. And then I kind of got into a bit of a groove of it. And so now I spend most of my time when I sort of allot my time for writing to be honest I spend most of my time prepping researching getting all

my narratives sorted and knowing where I'm going and then as soon as I've got that the actual writing process yeah it happens I've found at least comes relatively not easily but it flows when I know where when my how my ducks are in order, I sort of really enjoy the process. Just imagine how crazy it's going to get when your little boy's giving you totally bonkers kid ideas for themes. Yeah, I'm going to be bonkers.

And then, Dad, can he grow wings and fly? Yeah, I'm going to ignore all of those. You want him to grow wings and fly, you can write. Yeah, that's very good incentive, actually. He probably will. Why do you think you felt comfortable writing for that age group? Is that an age that you really remember well from your childhood? That's a really good question.

Do you think that you're a child at heart? What's the thing? I definitely, I've always liked kids. Like I grew up in a, it was only I've always liked kids like I grew up in a it was only me and my sister but I grew up in a and is she older or younger she's three years older right I grew up in a very safe comfortable kind of village environment where I grew up in a little village called Mark's Tay it was kind of a weird upbringing because obviously it was very Irish upbringing and every second week we were in London with family and very Catholic upbringing. And yet when we were back there, it was, you were just like any other kind of household. But when we

shut the door, it felt like a very Irish house. So it was kind of, in many ways, it was kind of the best of both worlds because you had this lovely kind of 1970s, 1980s kind of era, kind of, you know, not as many cars on the road so you can play on the road kind of thing yeah and everyone went to the local primary school so i knew everyone in the village and so everyone kind of looked after each other's so even if you were eight if there was a five-year-old there you'd know who that five-year-old was and they'd play with you and then you'd sort of look after him so there was always kids around and i always felt comfortable even as i got older with children um to be honest with you i didn't really i never set out when i want to write for kids it wasn't i've never been that premeditated about anything really it's just the

idea came and then i thought well where how does this because i want it for me the best the best tv show the last 30 years is the simpsons because it works on so many levels and i kind of wanted to that was always my inspiration I suppose because I wanted to write that adults could go that's quite a funny joke like Katzenberg for example you know adults that have been to Glastonbury would would get references in there that you know there's a the different tents or the different bars you can go yeah and at the same time you want kids to be able to get it as well and and so you wanted to work on a few different levels but not try too hard to you know i mean it i would say that's hard to do to

make it well i think everyone thinks writing for kids is easy do you know what it flippin isn't no it sort of depends what if you can get in a groove and you know your own voice then it's okay if you try too hard to do anything that's that that doesn't sound like you then i think you you can get scuppered quite easily um but i was for me it's like never patronize kids never talk down to them always always they've got great sense of humor kids and they they can spot um when you're trying too hard so so the tv shows i like when i was when i was a kid were never the tv shows that were really aimed at me as a child like yeah we're always together kids it was always the stuff i think most kids are like this i think it was always

the stuff that was aimed slightly older that you went yeah it's the stuff it was always that was more aspirational to me so it's always stuff like brain chill rather than blue peter i suppose um and that's why i love the simpsons because it does, it's all things to all people. And yet the heart of it is a lovely story about family and love and'm forever having to find, she wants to know what I read and what books I'd like her to read. And I'm forever kind of trying to think back to what I read and I can't remember most of the time. Is your writing now inspired by what you loved as a kid? That's a good question.

I think yes, but not probably consciously. Yeah, okay. So like most people, it was a lot of Roald Dahl in the house. I was lucky enough, we had one of those mobile libraries that came. So in the house um I was lucky enough we had one of those mobile libraries that came so we had a great we had one of those I remember that yeah and then this kind of yellow like big lorry would turn up once a month or something around the

village and so we could uh we're only six miles from Colchester and I had to go and uh every Saturday because I went to a local Church of England school I mean I had to go to had to go on Saturday morning as my friends are off playing football or whatever I had to went to a local Church of England school. I mean, I had to go on Saturday morning as my friends were off playing football or whatever. I had to go to a local interculture and go to a convent to be taught by nuns. Wow. Yeah, first seven years of my life

for my preparation for my holy communion. But as a way of kind of recompense, my dad would take me to BHS to see my mum afterwards and we'd go to their canteen and i was able to have whatever i wanted so i'd have like eggs bacon and strawberry flan or something for breakfast and then um and then we would go to the library where my dad would read the paper and i would i would grab as many books as i possibly could for that week so uh and i have very fond memories of that so and my parents always read to me and,

which is obviously a huge thing that I'm even doing to Casper now, even at seven months old. I was going to ask you about that. Are you doing that already? I remember doing it to mine when they were tiny and like, didn't even know what a book was. But when you love books, you're just so desperate to make them love books. Well,

I mean, there's so many great baby's books as well. So there's a lot of those kind of like touchy feely ones that are really lovely. Like That's Not My Flamingo or things like that. And then actually we're sort of already reading him books that he has no idea what the words mean or anything. But there's some really funny books. There's a great book called Oi Frog. I don't know if this is here.

Oh, yes, I know. No, no, hold on. You've got to move on. Get to Oi Duck, Build Platypus. Well, I bought the series the other week. So we've just finished. We've finished Oi Dog. And next is The Cat, which I love The Cat.

The Sarcastic Cat is just brilliant. I love these books. But it's kind of what I love about these kind of books. And it's the same kind of with TV, with any partnership. it sort of permeates into your everyday kind of language doesn't it so one of us said to the other one but I don't want to do that you know it's not about it's not about wanting to it's about doing the right thing which is what the cat the cat says in the first book do you does he calm down when you read him is it something he enjoys he loves the process of of being with you and snuggling up

and yeah and turning the pages they like turning the pages and touching uh that's why those kind of that's not my flamingos it's so those kind of books he loves because he just gets to touch things or where's the witch or things like that you know they're kind of four animal astronauts in one or um so yeah i think he just likes the the ritual of it and when he's older you'll find yourself being stupidly soppy over these books because i've got baby books i can't get rid of even though i've got them on the bookshelf now and they will never go ever ever ever ever ever yeah no i've i'm i get that already i mean i'm quite soppy anyway so there's like baby grows his head from when he was one month i'm like well we're

not getting rid of that it's why you have to keep buying bigger houses when you have kids it's not because the kids need more space it's just the stuff that you can't bear to get rid of that's true i spent years telling my husband i was keeping it all for the next one and then we had the next one and i couldn't he then was like well there's not going to be another one so he was kept trying to make me get rid of stuff and i was like no it's mine you become hoarders you become hoarders definitely definitely so what is next for Dermatolary so I'm doing book five now which I need to deliver in two or three weeks I'm sort of there next week I'll get my head down and break the back of that hopefully best crack on i know um sorry wendy and then um and then um i've got this morning and and radio and my and i've got a podcast on audible called

people just people where you're pretty busy like how are you fitting all this in and a baby i don't get it it's quite hard from this d super? Is it actually that she's holding everything up and you're running around working? She is definitely, she's got her own stuff. She's just been. She has. Yeah, she's not exactly idle, is she? No, she's just got a job directing The Split on BBC. I don't know if you've ever seen The Split.

It's so good. I have, yes. She's director on the third series of that, which is amazing. That's exciting. So we're both pretty busy but um we've got a great nanny to be honest with you we're sort of and we work as a team which is lovely so there's sort of three of us and the lovely thing is we both work from home a lot so

we're able to kind of see a lot of him and get hands-on with him as well which is great so when you look back at this strange time which obviously has had some kind of silver linings for you what do you think you'll have learned from the pandemic and lockdown we're asking this of everyone because i feel like i'm always trying to squeeze some meaning out of it somehow do you know what i mean yeah i get that and why wouldn't you i mean i think i think if we if we just sort of blithely just kind of get back to wherever the new normal is going to be too weird wouldn't it and yeah pretended it never happened? If we don't learn anything as a species from this, then, and there are wider things we need to learn as a species,

which are largely about taking care of our planet and ourselves. And actually, our world probably needs to be a bit more local. I mean, and that's not to say don't travel. Of course, we all want to travel. But how we eat our food, what we consume, all of these things, I think we need to be thinking about, well, do I need that water that's come from Fiji? Or can I actually just filter some tap water?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because that is a kind of a wider thing. But I think personally, and I know that I've just reeled off three or four things I'm doing but it is kind of appreciating the smaller stuff and whether that whether that small stuff is a you know is a cup of coffee or that small stuff is a walk in the park or it's just kind of being able to turn the phone and the computer off and actually you know and I've never particularly been someone who's always

on my phone but it's it's it's making sure you have time for you and those around you I think um yeah I was gonna say I think it's about realizing that life is actually nicer when it's a bit more simple yeah and I and I think if if we do please god if we do if we haven't learned anything it's that we don't go back to the way of working that we used to yeah I agree and by that I mean everyone I think it doesn't matter what you do for a living i think it's the idea of you know chasing our people don't want to work like that it's not it doesn't make you happy it makes you die young it you know you know people want to work hard and you should work hard but don't work to the detriment of your happiness and it's easy

for me to say say that because i've worked hard and I've got enough steaks in the freezer. But don't work, you know, that's up to companies to protect their own workers. That's making sure that people are given the right conditions to work under. So that delivery driver isn't breaking his back and just squeezing too many deliveries in a day that unrealistically is not be able to. You know, it's those sorts of things I think that as a a society we need to look at yeah I'm with you now this is a very deep question that we ask everybody but we're really interested to know how do you want to be remembered oh god that's such a and we're not bumping you off by the way yeah we're not saying now the end is near Dermot you are cracking on um I think if I can be considered to be a good friend and a good husband and a good dad and someone that's like great company um and and

with kindness in the soul then that then I'll be happy with that that's good that's a nice answer yeah we take that we basically just so you, we judge people really harshly on the answer. Oh, do you? What's the worst answer you've had for that question? So you passed. You passed really well. What's the worst answer you've had for that question? Everyone's been quite careful, actually, haven't they?

One of my favourites, other than yours, obviously, was Nadia Hussain, who said, I don't really care about being remembered. And just said, as long as I made a difference in my life, I don't care if you don't remember me when I'm gone. Oh, that's quite sad. Also, of course we're going to remember. Of course we're going to remember now.

But I think her point was, I'm not in it for the acclaim. I'm just in it to make a difference while I'm here. And I thought that was quite a nice sentiment. Yeah, I don't agree with that. I want to be, you know. You are the biggest obituaries ever. God damn it, remember me. We're going to put up a monument.

Right, over to you, Annie. Much trickier question. Yeah, a much deeper question, which is, Dermot, what's for tea and who's cooking? Well, I'm cooking 99% of the time. Good man. Because it's a night before this morning. What a normal, because I'll have to work quite late today

to do prep for the show. To get ready for tomorrow. You don't get your script till, your briefing pack is scripted about seven. So I need to, you sort of always got to factor a couple of hours in to go through it tonight. So what we normally do

is I either play football on Thursdays, which obviously I can't do at the moment, or we'll go for a little run. And then when I get back, I do a really quick noodle soup. Nice. Yeah, no, it's just great. It's great noodle soup thursday tell us tell us what goes in oh well i start with actually there's some really good like singaporean like packet noodles you can get with a little bit of salt a little bit and then you add to that's your base but then you add fry up some prawns is it like a pho it's like a chili kind of more like a ramen i suppose chili garlic

uh spring onions broccoli greens all of that and it's cooked in about 15 minutes so it's a nice quickie however we've had a lot of that this week a lot of soups this week and um i got some hay cow the freezer that i bought the other day and um which i normally wouldn't freeze fish but um we had too much so i put some in the freezer and I got it out, telling her yesterday too late to defrost it. It's still in the fridge. So it'll still be all right tonight. So I'm probably going to cook that with, I cook a lot of fish.

And I normally, all you really need to fish is oil, garlic, lemon, parsley. Yeah, simple. They're the only thing you need. And that's what Pooley has taught me um we're kind of off we're trying not to do potatoes during the week so I'll probably do that with some uh mashed sweet and some green call yourself an O'Leary and you're cutting back on the potatoes don't tell me about it listen I've got I've got once a week telly to do well I guess you're getting into the whole weaning thing now as well are you pureeing mush left

oh yes I hadn't thought about that he's that age isn't he yeah yeah is it getting messy is it I guess you're getting into the whole weaning thing now as well. Are you pureeing mush, Lefoy? Oh, yes. I hadn't thought about that. He's that age, isn't he? Yeah. Is it getting messy? Is it getting messy? It's getting pretty messy. We did porridge.

I did porridge this morning. He absolutely is a porridge fiend. Good boy. Can't get enough of it. Good boy. This is when you need a dog, by the way. I know you've got away with cats till now, but a dog to lick up all the spoils from the weaning baby.

That is true. That is true. That is true. The cats love the porridge though. Any leftover porridge, they'll hammer that. I remember making these things called porridge fingers. Oh God, I never got sucked into that, Wendy. I can't believe you did. What are porridge fingers, Wendy?

Don't go there, Dermot. Don't go there. Wendy, tell me. You overcook porridge in the microwave until it becomes like a soggy finger and then you're supposed to hand it to them and they just chomp on it. And I remember making it and just thinking, Christ, I wouldn't feed that to the dogs.

It was just disgusting. It's like a... Just let them have normal porridge. I know. It was Annabelle Carmel. She's OCD about mess, isn't she? She doesn't like mess. Is she?

Yeah. That explains a lot. Sorry, Annabelle. I do love your recipes. So, the final question is the big lot. Sorry, Annabelle. I do love your recipes. So, the final question. It's the big one. No,

there's two more. I want to know, first of all, what's been your favourite bit of dadhood? What's the best bit so far? Oh, well, it's the little things really.

It's not necessarily, I mean, putting the buggy together successfully was a big thing for me. Of course. That's genuinely not my skill set. And I hate putting things together and manuals and so forth. So that not falling apart, especially when you take it apart and then put it together.

So we went to Oslo and we've got this great shot of, obviously, because it was post-lockdown, but no one was really traveling. So we've got this great shot we've got of me putting the buggy together, back together, and de-changing an Afri on a luggage carousel and it's just pure class classic traveling with a baby yeah but for me i know it's gonna sound really schmaltzy but it's actually the first time you see him in the morning it's just the nicest like you see him and you get that kind of smile and then and then they're so pleased to see you sing a little song and yeah i used to wonder did they forget that we existed overnight do then, and then you sing a little song. And yeah. I used to wonder,

did they forget that we existed overnight? Do you think? And then they're like, Oh yeah, you, you're quite nice. Mine were up far too much in the bloody night to forget me. They saw me on the hour every hour.

That's very true. There was no forgetting mummy. Man, oh man. Well, you've got all the fun bit. You've got the crawling and the walking and the, yeah. And the first words, you've got all the nice bit you've got the crawling and the walking and the yeah and the first words

you've got all the nice stuff to come and the other thing is I'm not in any hurry for that so you know I'm perfectly happy for it to just

to go on well you've got a lot to do to be honest before all that happens you've got to finish this book yes you've got to crack on

come on first of all first of all you've got to sing to us Jesus Annie oh yeah last question last question go on annie you ask him okay right so it's our favorite question we ask it every week every guest and we've had some absolute corkers we want you to imagine that you're tucking wendy and i into bed at night

yeah every time you say this like and we want you to sing to us what you would sing to casper sing us your family lullaby because Because I've got a lot of weird, am I tucking you in as adults? Or I've got this weird kind of thing where you're, where I've got your adult. It's best not to overthink it. Yeah. I would,

I would try and keep your mind quite blank. Wendy, I've got you as a sort of like, like normal head, but baby body. Oh, that's just weird. You're in,

you're sort of tucked into the same bed together. Yeah. That's probably fine fine that has happened before yeah yeah let me see okay yeah so I've um I wrote Casper a song oh wow which is kind of a Noel Coward refrain okay and um I'll sing you the first verse of that okay Caspy waspy doodah we're in love with you since first I saw you on Barclay Square What was I to do? I'll meet you at the Ritz at four

We'll have tea for two Caspi waspi do da I'm in love with you Yay! I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it Well done There's two more verses But I won't subject you to those

Okay, they can be just for Casper You're our second guest Who has sung a self-penned song. You and Bryony Gordon. Yeah. Oh, that's good company. So you're in very good company. Very good company indeed.

She's a really good egg. We love her a lot. Okay, well, thank you so much, Kaz, for coming on. Pleasure, Kaz. Love to the fam. Will, of course. And to Aunt... Tricia.

Tricia. And Uncle Ray.. And to Aunt... Tricia. Tricia. And Uncle Ray. And Uncle Ray. There you go. Sorted. Thank you, Wendy, as well. It was lovely talking to you. Oh, it's a pleasure to talk to you.

Thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. I really enjoyed that. Have a good day. Enjoy your hake. Take care. Thank you. Take care, guys.

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