The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep26: Denise Van Outen on having couples therapy BEFORE the wedding

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Wendy and Annie get up close and personal with Denise Van Outen, on what it's like realising you're a rubbish lockdown teacher to your child, the challenges of settling down for a second time AND whether there'll be any more little Van Outens joining daughter Betsy any time soon.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Good morning, Sweat, Snot and Tears gang. How are we all this merry day? We're all feeling a bit lighter because it feels like there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Wend, any light at the end of your tunnel, so to speak? That's a start, isn't it? It is. It is lighter in the evenings, which is making me happy. We have news that the kids might be going back to school. So by the time this airs, they might be back at school, which is just... Let's cross every limb, digit, our eyes. Making me happy.

But I am recording this sat in a corner of my kids' playroom surrounded by Lego because it's the only quiet spot in the house. So apologies for any cursing when I sit on a bit of Lego. OK, great. As long as you don't swear, Wend. Well, you know, I always swear, so that's not going to happen, is it? Right. So without further ado, should we introduce this week's guest? Yes, I'm excited. I'm very excited too. And I'm massively excited about the things she's going to tell us she's doing because it sounds amazingly scary, but also quite genius to me.

Welcome, Denise Van Outen. Hello. How lovely to catch up with you. I know. Are you all right today? Do you know what? I'm actually all right. I mean, my tunnel is well lit. I've always thought of you as a woman with a well lit tunnel, you know what, I'm actually all right. I mean, my tunnel is well lit. I've always thought of you as a woman with a well lit tunnel. Do you know, I've tried to remain positive throughout.

And, you know, like we've all had, I've had down days. But, you know, I just keep thinking about the future and how great things are going to be when we finally come out of this mess. So, yeah, I'm keeping my tunnel lit. Good. Keep those lights flaring um so the first question we ask anyone on the podcast every week is have there been any sweats not or teary moments in your house so far this morning um this morning wasn't too bad um obviously the the odd internet problem which yes with the homeschooling can be very tricky. But Eddie seems to be a bit of an internet genius.

He's like your resident IT help desk, isn't he? He is. And he's been a bit of a saviour because I'm honestly so useless on computers. So the fact that I'm actually here with you now is quite remarkable, really. All thanks to Eddie. But also Eddie is just suddenly,

I don't even know where this has come from, but he's just suddenly really got into baking. Which wasn't like a first lockdown thing. This is kind of a bit late to the party when we're going to be coming hopefully out of a lockdown, which is a little bit disturbing. So I'm like, hang on a minute. I want to go out, out. And now you want to stay in, in and bake.

Well, you can just eat the spoils of his labour and take it with you on a picnic. Yeah, what's he baking? All sorts of things. I mean, breads, a variety of breads. He did make a lovely fruit bread. He's just made a big tray of flapjacks. Is he any good?

Yeah, he was really good. Surprisingly good. Does he normally do the cooking? Like, is he the cook in your house? He does. And I have to say, I've been really lazy because he's such a good cook. And I used to cook all the time. I because he's such a good cook and I used to cook all the time I was a single mum for five years so I did all the cooking then when we moved

in together about two years ago Eddie took over and I've been so lazy because he he loves it see whereas cooking for me can sometimes feel like a bit of a chore yeah it can because I can only do the basics but Eddie's actually really good and I think a lot of men do make good chefs, don't they? So he's just a bit more experimental. He's quite good with his timing, whereas my timing's always out. So I kind of leave him to it, really. But I'm very spoiled. I'm very impressed.

So how old is Betsy now? She is coming up to 11. Oh, tween. There's a tween in the house. Tell me about it. What was it like? Okay, I'm just behind you. My son is nine.

So what do we expect? And my daughter's nine. So tell us about tweens. Yeah, what's going to happen when they hit 11? What are we going to experience? Well, you get the eye rolling. That started. I'm already getting the eye rolling.

Well, it does start quite early. I mean, I have to say it's only well it's stepped up again so it's gone from eye rolling to huffing to storming off um to probably just thinking i'm really uncool really moany but you know what i have to say she's very sweet because she does we've talked a lot about hormones and discussed everything especially with the fact the kids have been off they haven't had that chat at school right oh yeah I hadn't thought about that yeah which was like for all of the parents were on a group chat it was a bit like oh how do we tackle this one because we kind of got to do it ourselves which which is fine because I was quite happy to discuss it but

it's just the questions you get asked off the back of it it's just really uncomfortable because you suddenly get the oh do you do this well I've got to tell you something one of our guests coming up is a lady called Katie Kirby who is her R for gin and she's written a new book for 9 to 12 year old girls which we got sent so my daughter is reading it and I'm gonna have a serious bone to pick with her when she comes out because Chloe keeps coming up to me and saying mummy what are pubes and I'm gonna have a serious bone to pick with her when she comes out because Chloe keeps coming up to me and saying mummy what are pubes and I'm like oh my god thanks Katie I didn't expect this book to launch a pube question on a Tuesday morning yeah when you think about talking about sex and stuff you don't really think you're gonna have to talk about pubes do you really

no well one of my friend's daughters has just got them and she my friend was like well I've seen them and I don't know do I bring them up do I mention them they're kind of there has she noticed how old is she when 10 no you should talk about it yeah you got to I think it's been really nice and I have to be honest growing up, I grew up as a kid in the 80s because I'm quite old now. And my parents, we never really discussed a lot of things. It was all, you did it in school. And most of what I found out was through the playground

and chatting to friends. But it wasn't even that my parents were uncomfortable discussing it. It was just never, we just never did it. I think we learned it all from um Judy Bloom's forever didn't we yes if it wasn't for Judy Bloom we'd none of us would probably be parents but it's actually been really nice because we have been able to discuss it and talk about it and it's become very normal which I like you know that is really good that is really good I mean she did throw me the other day because we did talk about pubes and uh she decided

that she wanted as an experiment to just let hers grow forever to see how long they could get which made me nice i thought you'll change your mind yeah i think you could bring that up at her 21st birthday party couldn't ask her if she's plaited them for 20 have them beaded wendy didn't we once write a story about a woman who was knitting with them do you remember that no yeah that is your brain I do not remember that I swear to god I remember that anyway moving swiftly on so you're saying basically that homeschooling and being locked down together has been beneficial in some ways I think a lot of us think that you know yeah I think in some ways I mean I've really got

to know Betsy my daughter on a different level than I would have done like even with her home schooling because my daughter does have a few learning difficulties she's got dyslexia she's got dyspraxia dyscalculia oh not severe in any area just a little bit of everything so she can be a slow learner and she has intervention at school and of course at home I've been having to really help her yes what happens about that do they she has intervention at school. And of course, at home, I've been having to really help her. Yes, what happens about that? Do they get their intervention at home via a screen or were they just abandoned? Like what happened about that? No, with her school, I have to say, I've been amazing and have been very, very helpful.

But her brain's obviously wired differently. So it's been interesting for me to actually see how she learns. Yeah. And also just to, she'd made me realize how funny she is because the teachers have said in her school report that she's she makes people laugh in class and she's had me in stitches but you know when you just suddenly see it's what I would never see because she goes to school she's in a classroom but I've been able to be involved in her schooling and it's actually really nice to get to know her on a different level so I've tried to take all the positives out there don't get me wrong though there have been days

I've just wanted to scream because it's hard isn't it being at home all the time homeschooling trying to run a career and having to put up with Eddie yeah there is there isn't even a word in the English language for how hard it is you know I actually I'm not kidding when I say this right now it's gonna sound funny but I'm not I think we're gonna emerge like quite traumatized parents especially mums because we've had to juggle so much I know a lot of people have had it worse I'm not comparing like doing all of that with getting ill or dealing with someone dying yet it has been incredibly hard hasn't it it? It's been tough, but, you know, like you said, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, which is great.

And I sort of thought we'd be in it for a bit longer. So the fact that we've started to get some good news has really put a bit of a spring in my step because I thought it was going to go on for much longer. So is she looking forward to going back? Oh, she literally cannot wait. It's interaction with other children. You know, I think playd dates over like FaceTime and Zoom just not the same it's not the same you know

and actually watching them do it is quite amazing really because she hasn't really complained she just says I can't wait to see my friends but she hasn't really moaned a lot which I've been quite surprised at because I thought she would because she's an only child so she doesn't have any interaction at all but that will all change what there's going to be more babies yeah did he oh no no no no i'm no chance not at the moment no um when she's in school that will change tell us something no we just we get puppies instead wow how many have you got we've got two dogs but we had another puppy we've got one um six she's six months now so we've got her three months ago and she was very much our lockdown

fur baby wasn't planned was a bit spur of the moment and now we love having her here and i'm open to having a third fur baby but Eddie's not quite so sure so you're not giving us an exclusive on real babies then no I wish I was but no okay and to be honest I don't blame you I think I'd rather have a puppy right now um right tell us how's the broken shoulder we were worried about you. It's still fractured. I had a scan just a couple of days ago. I was hoping, I don't know why, I just thought that I would go in and they'd go, oh, it's all fine now.

But that was wishful thinking. It is still fractured in three parts. Oh my God. Yay, yay, yay. Yeah, I'm still waiting to find out if I'll need keyhole surgery because unfortunately I won't know for at least another month

because they have to see if there's impingement so what's impingement well it's just to do with the tendons and everything getting trapped between the new bone oh my goodness oh my goodness is it really painful still it's sore I had a really bad night's sleep last night because I couldn't get comfortable but it's sore but I'm I'm I kind of get on with things so I've got quite a high pain threshold I mean I don't know how I skated on ice when I had three fractures and a dislocated shoulder I know it's nuts do you know I haven't watched that routine back because it was so painful that if I watch it I feel like I'd be transported back to that pain and I just can't watch it yeah that's bad yeah after I came off I just I nearly

passed out and like I said I've got a high pain threshold but that was pain on a whole another level it's it was you know we've we've gone through childbirth but that was I thought I could handle pain but I found that really hard and so did you instantly know you'd broken something like was it did you just know something really bad had happened I knew something wasn't right but it was a mixture of thinking well first of all I was just devastated that I'd have to leave the show because you know dance on ice for three months well I know we were following you on like Instagram and stuff and I could tell everyone was getting better and it looked really cool I was having a really nice time. And, you know, it was lovely getting to know Matt, spending time with him.

So I was more upset about that first. I think when I first fell, the adrenaline took over and I thought I was fine. But as the day wore on, I could feel that it was getting worse. And then I just was in so much pain. I couldn't move my arm at all. I couldn't even take, I think I had like a hoodie on it. There was a T-shirt on at the time.

I couldn't get it off because I couldn't move my arm. And I thought something's much worse. Oh, that's bad. They thought it was maybe a torn tendon, but it just felt like something was caught. You know, like if I was trying to move my arm. Oh, stop, stop, stop. Anyway, we won't go there.

Yeah, moving swiftly on. Annie's terrible about this sort of thing. What was it like going to hospital? Well, I really left it as long as I could because I was very conscious of the fact that I did not want to go to A&E because of the NHS especially knowing how overstretched they've been so I tried to sort of ride it out for 15 hours and went home and then found out afterwards probably the worst thing I could have done because the longer it's dislocated the harder it is for it to wait wait wait it was dislocated and broken yeah for 15 hours I just went home I ran I went home and ran myself a bath and poured

myself a large glass of red wine I thought I'll be fine and then uh no and then I had to go to A&E and I went to the hospital the A&E was empty there was no because I was worried obviously about Covid and everything when I actually got there the nurses said to me it's been really sad because we just haven't had people coming in because they're too nervous so yeah we had to write a big story about that because some parents were keeping their kids home with things that really needed to be treated but I think it does scare everyone doesn't it yeah but they looked after me and um I did the show they got I got myself through the show I don't know how you did that did you have amazing painkillers no you're not allowed to take anything I did it completely because I'm on ice because I

said to them can I take something and they were like is, you know, it's a dodgy situation. If you were to fall again or if you were felt, you know, slightly disorientated from taking any strong medication, because, you know, you can't go on ice intoxicated. You wouldn't go on there after having alcohol. So you could get the same infection. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. No.

So I just had to get on. I literally, when get on I literally when I say I stood there took a deep breath had to grit my teeth and just said to myself this is a minute and a half of excruciating pain just smile through it and then the worst part is I stood there to get the results from the judges and they listen they're judging a show and they weren't to know I'd broken bones but they knew I was injured and for Ashley turn around and go you need to come back next week and up your game i wanted to literally go over to that i'm amazed you didn't punch it just i know i wanted to go over and headbutt all of them and go do you know the pain i'm in i hope they've all said sorry

now um no i mean it's they they just get on and do their show it's what the show is realize it is they're judges and they're looking they're there to critique you you know i've been a judge myself on shows but no i there was no sympathy i've had no sympathy well we feel very sorry for you thank you no i'm all right do you know i just get on with is eddie sympathetic he is actually yeah he's been really helpful there's been a lot I can't do like I couldn't do my shoelaces up and I can't exercise much which is really annoying me because I do exercise sort of came to me later in life when I say that was all from in my 40s I started to say I need to do something about it now but I kind of miss it because what do you normally do what's your routine well I do I go for a lot of power walks which I can do I'm allowed to do again now which is good but do weights arm weights lunging I do

I've got like a little assault course I built in the garden in the first lockdown and I do amazing um we've got a forest nearby so we go and have a little jog in the forest and I try and do as much as I can but I'm limited so that's that's making me feel a bit fed up really because that you know I'd gone from ice skating every day for nearly four months to just doing nothing it's a horrible feeling are you gonna have to have physio and stuff so that you get all the movement back yeah I will do but you know that's what you sign up to and you know I never saw myself as being an amazing figure skater I just wanted a job in lockdown yeah don't blame me love don't blame me I thought I'll do that Eddie said are you sure you want to do dance so nice it's really dangerous went babe I've got a lot of friends losing jobs at the moment and it's a job

I've got somewhere to go every day I'm doing it and then lo and behold fell over and injured myself what well it's not your fault now talking about jobs yeah that I desperately want to talk about talk to us about um Eddie and before we say I do it sounds absolutely epic but also slightly terrifying well we've been together seven years this May and we we're a bit slow at sort of deciding whether or not we were going to maybe you know take the next step and get married for a lot of reasons Eddie had his own house I had my own house only two years ago we decided let's get rid of our houses let's actually live together we took our time obviously because we're a blended mixed family yeah and then we've just this past year we started going do you know it

just feels weird when we're introduced as you know boyfriend and girlfriend you know I'm 47 he's 48 we're like we said should we think about maybe getting married but it's been a joint decision it's not like we've you know there's been an engagement or anything because we just I'm not really fussed by doing anything like that so if we do it we'd wanted to get married and just be a joint decision you know very grown up of us so we would then discuss in relationships and obviously it's been brought to light throughout the past year that we've had a lot of friends going through breakups um because of the situation being together 24 7 deciding they actually hate each other yeah there have been moments i've got yeah and friends talking about seeking counseling to try

and save their relationships and i said to eddie do you know what? It surprises me that couples wait until something goes wrong. And what normally happens is, and this is, I've had this with a couple of, I've got a lot of younger friends because of the industry I'm in. And a lot of my friends who are younger, they'll date for a year, they'll get engaged, they move in together, they get married, They do it all quite quickly. And then seven years later, they're going, oh, this bothers me about you. That bothers me about you. Well, they start thinking about having maybe counselling then and having outside help. So I said to Eddie, I never really understood why people don't do all of that before. So that when you do get married, you kind of go of go right we've ironed out our differences the

niggles have all been put to bed now we can just have a blissful happy wedded life so we thought wouldn't it be fun and a bit of an experiment really to seek counselling before we get married but to seek all different types of counselling then we thought like should we just make it into a podcast really again like I said something to do um and yeah and people seem to like it I think it's a genius idea absolutely genius I actually know someone who's older than us who's a relationship therapist and she's got four kids all in their like sort of early 20s and her deal with them is I'll pay for your wedding as long as you let me pay for you both to have therapy first as well whenever each of you wants to get married really yeah because she just said there's no way you

should ever agree to spend the rest of your life with someone unless you've both explored like every kind of cobwebbed corner of your minds I think it's a great idea it is a bit scary though isn't it you know Eddie was Eddie was nervous about doing it because he said he's like your typical you know ex east end geese kind of thing you know he's moved out to essex doesn't really sort of open up too much about his feelings so he especially the fact that we were going to do it in a public way but then i think he sort of just said well i'll give it a go and see and he was surprised he said that he got so much out of it the thing is we listen to each other whereas normally if you get annoyed about something

things can get a little bit heated or you walk off you go to another room and I'm very much the sort of person that doesn't it never gets resolved never gets resolved just say right no and you just and I'm guilty of this so I'll go do you know what I can't be bothered to have another day tomorrow of just you know nitpicking or just being a little bit moody so I'll go, do you know what? I can't be bothered to have another day tomorrow of just, you know, nitpicking or just being a little bit moody. So I'll just forget it. But those small niggles in any relationship build up. And it's the small niggles that sometimes end up breaking people.

Yeah, it's really true. Or cause people to have affairs. But if you actually sit down, and it'll go one way or another, you leave a sit down, have counselling, and then go, do you know what? Actually, this is never going to work. so you've saved yourself a lot of money on spending out on a big wedding and all those volumonts or it will work and you just go it's the best thing that we've ever done god we did that but wait so how public so how edited is is it going to be like it must have because you must have to be really honest and like bear your

soul a bit with some of this stuff that's that's the scary bit I think well we have and it's not it's very raw and there are moments like I mean I've got to be honest I actually haven't listened to it because Eddie has and he said it's really good and even last night one of Eddie's friends messaged me and said oh I listened to your first podcast and she said thank you and I messaged back and said thank you questionable and she said oh me and James it's her husband she said we've it made us realize that we really need to reconnect and sit down and make time for each other they both got businesses and I was like oh I had no idea this would have such an impact on people but if it does and it and it's you know it's a good thing if it's done in

the right way and they're not all serious and deep some of them a bit silly and fun that we my favorite one was laughter therapy which I really enjoyed and it was just basically we spent about an hour just laughing that sounds amazing and it was teaching us to find the humor in things and to not take ourselves too seriously and just try and just make things a bit more lighthearted. And we actually ended up applying it on Valentine's night because we had a little bit of a disagreement. And it was all credit to Eddie, really, because he just started doing this laugh, like looking at me and laughing as if to say, why are we arguing? And then I started laughing and we end up just in fits of giggles. That's really lovely. So what do you think think okay what what were you most surprised about what did

you learn that surprised you the most um that I think a lot of the my insecurities and the way that I am obviously they all stem from childhood. And then also Eddie found the same. And he'd never addressed it before. But you suddenly go, oh, I do this because. So it helps you join up the dots for your own life. Yeah. And then ultimately, it's up to you whether or not you want to make changes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I've realized that. Like, you know, one of the things that really annoys me, and a lot of men say this, he feels like if I ask him to do something he said I go on and on and on about it and I do but then I then said to him but don't you understand if if I asked you I'm asking because I need the help otherwise I do it myself and the fact that you haven't done it means I will ask again so if you just don't you know well surely the argument there is just bloody do it then yeah and he said and he actually put his hands up and said I don't do it because I'm being stubborn and it's the first time he's admitted to it and he said because I don't want to be I feel like I'm being told what to I said no I'm asking you otherwise I would do it myself if I yeah if it's something I can't physically do that I need your help with because

you're a man and you've got strong arms or whatever reason but he's the first time he's ever said to me no I've been stubborn and I was like wow this is like something I never thought he'd say and out of all the different types of therapy that you tried which do you think was the best or the most useful I found the traditional therapy which is the talking listening to one another and that to me the others were a bit quirky and they were all good in their own they're all individually good for different reasons yeah like the laughter one for me was fun um because I like laughing you know and we both got a lot out of that when Betty's hurt afterwards but I think the traditional therapy which I've had therapy before in the past um not for long periods of time in my life but I have I'm I like talking anyway as you probably guess I'm a bit annoying but I think you can get a lot out of it Eddie's never really done it before so he was not

too sure whether it would work and he got a lot out of it. And actually, I think for relationships, it's something so it's worth doing. It really is. It really makes you look at yourself and listen. That's amazing, because if you think about it, most people aren't taught how to do that, are they? You're just kind of you become an adult and it's expected that you know how to do all these things yeah and we all make mistakes and I'm still learning but I just think I'd like to be able to you know move forward in our relationship with everything like I brought up things in our session that were from like a typical woman from when we first met and Eddie was was like, why is that still bothering you? I said, but it does bother me.

Yeah, not even in his head. There's been a pattern of your behaviour throughout the years that takes me straight back to that point. And he had no idea, so he gets it as well. And I think it was a bit of an eye-opener, really. It's fascinating. So you've also, is this another I'm bored in lockdown? You've released a single.

Yeah, so I've done a lot. You haven't exactly sat still, have you? No, and now I'm producing a film as well. Are you? What? Yeah, I know. Right, come on, tell us everything about both. I'll do the single first.

The single came about because I was meant to skate and sing live to On My Own from Les Miserables on Musicals Week on Dance on Ice. Of course, I wasn't able to do it. Wait, wait, wait. You were going to skate and sing live to On My Own from Les Miserables on Musicals Week on Dance on Ice. Of course, I wasn't able to do it. Wait, wait, wait. You were going to skate and sing at the same time? Yes. Denise. Yes.

That's amazing. Well, I do shows and you dance and you sing. So I just thought it's a slow song. It's a slow song. I like it. It's a slow song. I just said to Matt on the big notes, you can just pull me around and I'll get the note out

I'm sad we haven't got to see this now I know the world has missed out on you being dragged around well I know some of those lay miss lines are really hard but anyway so after the show because obviously couldn't do it I just said to Matt because I had the backing track made

obviously to sing live to I just said it's a shame isn't it really and I obviously felt disappointed because I was enjoying being part of a live performance show and then I was looking at the industry that I'm in and just the arts and how much it suffered yeah and just thought you know what I could actually put a vocal over this track release it and maybe raise some money for the arts and i've this i found this charity make a difference trust that's amazing and they basically support people within the theatre community and concert halls and within the arts who haven't had government funding throughout the pandemic so i'm talking about all the people backstage like the musicians the ushers the box office staff the directors the wigs the costume the lighting the

sound guy all the people you don't see when you go to a theater they can't get furlough and they haven't had any support so i said let me record it which i recorded at home eddie was my sound engineer did you bicker like you did at the beginning of this yeah please don't eat it he did and he started to think he was like jay-z but i said we're like the poor man's jay-z and beyonce because he was literally thinking he was a music producer and i was just like eddie just please just record it like he's so fussy about the sound and i was like i like that about him though i like people who do things properly yeah but he takes forever i like to get things done so anyway so i recorded it at home put it out for the charity, and 100% of the profits goes to the Make a Difference Trust,

which then goes to, gives small grants to all the people that have not been able to put food on the table, pay the bills. That's a really lovely story. It's all the forgotten ones. Do you know what I mean? All the ones that I've done shows. And Lamy's was my first ever Western musical when I was 11, 12. I played young Eponine.

So I did the show when it first opened in the first year with the original cast so I just thought it's something very small that I can do just to sort of help raise awareness to give a little bit a little bit back and it was something to do in lockdown right now tell us about the film another thing how'd you do that well I was supposed to last year. I wrote a one-woman show, which is a play, and with my friend Terry Ronald, we were playwrights. We put it on in the West End in 2014.

Okay, wait a second. Is there anything you can't do? It's starting to bug me now. I can't bake flapjacks. All right, all right, all right. I'll give you that. Yeah, so I put it on in the West End at the arts theater in 2014 i love the arts theater i know and i really wanted to bring it back so last year i was going to bring it before all we went into

this lockdown and before the pandemic i was going to bring it back and do it again in the west end but obviously couldn't do it so i thought right what can i do with it it's a play called some girl i used to know it's about a woman um who's reminiscing about her youth so it's very much covers the 80s the 90s it's vaguely loosely written around me very us very us yeah she's a character who's like a businesswoman kind of like neglected herself and just her personal life a little bit to focus on her career and she starts becoming very reflective about her past one of her very first loves gets in touch with her and she's actually married so she's sort of debating whether or not she should meet up with her first love and reignite that passion from many years ago or or finish the

unfinished business so it's a bit kind of like Shirley Valentine you know that kind of film but it's just me on my own it's one woman and I did it in the West End then I just thought do you know what actually because there is no theatre at the moment I could possibly film this and put this out as a one-woman film so that you've got a bit of an exclusive here because nobody knows I'm doing it but I start shooting in two weeks this is very cool but wait I don't think I've ever seen a one woman film how does a woman film work with one woman funny that but what i mean is is it just filming you on the stage or are you doing it in locations no it's going to be on location oh wow when are we going to see it when are we

going to see it please tell me eddie's cameraman is he no i'm not he's not coming anywhere near the set or would that be divorced before you even get married? The daughter is going to be a very, very small crew. His daughter is actually going to be the runner for me because she wants to get a little bit of experience. How did you know Eddie had kids? How old are Eddie's kids? So they've grown up.

So his son is now 26 and his daughter is coming up to 22. That's cool. Yeah, so that's what's happening. and we start shooting in a couple of weeks and it will be the turnaround will be very quick because i really want to get it out quickly yeah i want to see it well i'd love to chat to you about it again when it does come out because there's there's more to to tell you i can't tell you just yet because i'm about who is directing it because it's very exciting oh I'm a bit excited now well we'll see it could be a disaster no it won't but at the same time I just thought you know what you can't really be judged at the moment for doing nobody can knock you for trying there's no theater I'm

just going to try and do what I wanted to do on stage but in a film version it'll either work or it'll be a disaster listen I've had so many turkeys in my career it'll just be another one on the pile I'll stop it I think that now is the perfect time I think women's voices are finally starting to be heard in a way they've never been heard before so I think like this is so perfectly timed hopefully we'll see and you're right lockdown is kind of this I know so many people who are doing something and they're a bit like well do you know what if ever there's a time you can do something and it's a bad call and people will just say oh well it was lockdown now's the time to try something exciting or new yeah a bit scary

isn't it yeah and I spoke to a couple of other my friends remember they did the I think I can't remember which channel it was on they did the isolation drama the stories and I think Sheridan Smith did one with her pregnancy I mean if you look at that they weren't brilliant but it was still great tv and actually really inventive and very clever the way it was shot you know people just making these films at home so you can get away with so much more and I like the rawness and the fact that it's quite basic and you just having to think outside the box rather than just you know you don't always have to have like all these million pound budget and sets and costumes and actually if you've got a good story and a story to tell it should really it should speak for itself and just you know be good enough it doesn't have to

I think that's what I like about what's happened is we've all been stripped back a little bit, you know. I love it. Yeah. It's making everyone more creative. Now, a minute ago, you were talking about forgotten ones. Please tell us that you're still best friends with Johnny Vaughan because you'll forever be Big Breakfast in our heads.

I know. I know. Yeah, we have been speaking a lot recently um we we did we've had we've been on and off with as friends for years for various reasons but that's what happens with friendships isn't it well do you know what not really because a lot of my friends that's never happened with but I think just as a combined career and work it's a work thing it's different like a lot of my other friends I don't I've never fallen out with but it's it becomes a work thing so you get other influences involved and but you sort of also go I've got a lot of love for him as a person as a friend and I'm sure he feels the same and we've

started sort of talking again and again we've started thinking of maybe some little ideas oh come on please please please please that would make me so happy. Well, what's really funny is Annie and I have got some questions written down on a shared sheet. And I just read it as Annie was asking you that question as, do you still stalk Johnny rather than talk to Johnny? And I was like, I don't think she ever stalked him, did she? That's amazing. That's amazing.

Right. So we normally ask people how they want to be remembered it's a standard question we ask every guest and we're always fascinated by the answers you're going to struggle because you do a bit of everything yeah i don't know really in your head how do you see yourself what are you in your head i do a bit of everything I suppose great Dean I'll do a bit of everything or savvy one of the two yeah I don't know my brain's always ticking over annoyingly so because Eddie's even like where does this come from I'm always coming up with ideas and I've just got one of those crazy heads that's just thinking of the next new thing if someone said to you said to Betsy what was your mummy what would you want her to say what would be the

thing that you want her to remember you for for being um for being brave I love um because I think she probably does think because even with the dance for nice things she thought I'd be too scared to do it and I've done a lot of sort of physical challenges as well over the years um I want her to be able to understand because it's something I'd love to pass on to her is I do a lot quite a lot for charity and I'd like her to continue to do that and to recognize other people's needs and and understand that we've we're in a very lucky position with work and everything and what I do um and I'd hope that she'd say that I'm a bit bonkers really because I've always wanted to be as a mum you know to make her laugh and put a smile on her face because I can get too serious and she does always say this to me she walks in the bedroom and she

always goes you're not a normal mum I'm like why she can't no other mums would do what you're doing you're just you're bonkers and I quite like that I think bonkers no other mums would do what you're doing? You're just, you're bonkers. And I quite like that. I think bonkers mum is a good thing to be. Yeah. My mum was like it and still is. I mean, my mum's in her late seventies, but still makes us all laugh with being silly and never grown up. Well, yeah, if you can't have a laugh with your mum,

do you know what I mean? Yeah. You've got to be able to, haven't you? Yeah. Okay. So from the kind of sublime to the ridiculous, the other question we always ask near the end of the pod is what's for tea denise flapjacks i'll have to ask eddie who knows oh actually no he did

say to me i think he's making we've decided we've been eating a lot of heavy quite stodgy food so he's doing a nice prawn stir fry tonight lovely very something a bit lighter because i just said to him look eddie you've got to understand i'm not moving here i can't do any exercise so can you lay off baking the bread like your timing is the worst timing ever that you've suddenly discovered you like baking when i'm injured and i can't move yeah my husband my husband's got into making sourdough and i keep saying if you keep making this we're getting any cranes to get us out of this bloody house at the end of lockdown I know so Denise it's a bit of a weird one you have to imagine that you are tucking Annie and I into bed and you like we're Betsy like we're Betsy and sing us your lullaby what's your family lullaby oh a lullaby well it doesn't have to be a

lullaby a soothing song that you would sing to Betsy if she was troubled at night. If she was troubled at night, I would probably sing something. I'd probably do actually thinking about I'm just trying to think back of songs that would mean sort of something to us and family parties and all that. I actually was very lucky that I was able to duet with the late great Andy Williams wow um so I did the I love you baby that one um so I'd probably do that for Betsy it's such a lovely stuff yeah and you have an amazing voice Denise oh bless you thank you yeah something like that nice and slow and chilled and just calming yeah and jolly and happy yeah i think you're very jolly mummy would you say i think so yeah i try to be

yeah probably a bit annoying because i try to be a bit too jolly eddie finds me annoying he's like well we can't wait to listen to the new pod we now can't wait to watch the one woman film thank you so much for being such a lovely guest thank you so much and keep the one woman film to yourself yes and just the listeners yeah until until you can hear and when you find out who's directing it you'll you'll be super excited okay we're excited already oh yeah thank you so much for having me it's so lovely to chat to you and to share the light at the end of all of our tunnels yep we started with tunnels we're finishing with tunnels have a good day denise thank you stay safe