The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep27: Hurrah for Gin: Katie Kirby on why telling it like it is REALLY matters

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

Listen to Annie and Wendy discuss everything from fish fingers and lycra one-pieces to mental health in lockdown, as well as, of course, gin, with Katie 'Hurrah for Gin' Kirby.  The Extremely Embarrassing Life of Lottie Brooks, by author and blogger Katie Kirby, AKA Hurrah for Gin, is out now!

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Hello sweaters, snotterers and teary types. And my darling Wendell, I have so much stress on my plate today that I'm focusing solely on the takeaway we're having for tea tonight.

Problem is when, what shall I choose it's my turn I always go Thai given the option well there's a pub over the road that serves the best Thai food but what do the kids have when you order Thai fish fingers oh you're right so we're not ordering for them? No. Takeaway is far too sophisticated for my children's palates. It's not beige. So mine will have a shit fit, which is a technical parenting term, if they're not included. So it's going to have to be something where there's a non... Oh, God, I hate pizza.

Duck. Crispy duck. Yes. Yeah, go for crispy duck. That's the best. Okay, right, fine. Now, shall we find out what our new guest is having for tea tonight? Because it matters. Now, I'll give you some clues as to who it is. She's beloved by parents for her wit and her art.

It's not often you can say that about someone. She has her own online shop. Again, not many people have that. She has a new book coming out. And quite quite frankly she's unique and beloved to me for cutting through to a place of truth like no other Wendy it makes it sound like I love her more than I welcome Katie Kirby aka hurrah for gin hurrah for you hello glad to be here how are you today you're all right I'm good I'm good today yeah, busy as usual. But yeah, glad it's Friday. I love a Friday. Now we've met before, haven't we? We met at a very posh dinner. It feels like 800 years ago. Because obviously there haven't been many posh dinners going down recently. It was nice, wasn't it? It was lovely. I can't remember what I had though. But I do remember it tasting very

nice. I do remember there being quite a lot of wine as well yeah I remember that we had cocktails the food is a bit of a blur yeah I want to know have there been any sweaty snotty or teary moments in your house today Katie uh well the kids are finally back at school so yeah I know my god it's so good and um those listening were at the end of one. We're recording this at the end of the first week back. I think it's gone really fast. It has gone really fast. And what has shocked me is how short the school day is as well. Yes. I think it would feel longer.

On Monday at five to three, I was merrily working away and suddenly I was like, oh my God, I've forgotten to get them them and I was so out of the loop and like you say it felt so just middle of the afternoon not end of day that I'd completely forgotten to go and get them I mean it's pretty much after lunch isn't it yeah well how quickly the day goes when they're not here versus when they are yeah it drags a bit doesn't it any teary moments katie any snot we don't have any snot or tears we've had some shouting um my son i made him take his socks off last night when he wanted to sleep in them and this morning he um refused to put his socks on because he said i took them off and he preferred to sleep in them and wear the same ones he was wearing to school so because i made him

change his socks um we had a bit of a standoff about that and um we negotiated and I agreed to put on one sock if he put on the other one so um yeah the art of compromise right there exactly how old are your kids now they're um 10 and 8 yeah so that's about eight year olds still acting like a toddler don't they all I've been hoping it gets better but yeah it doesn't really seem to it's those little battles like that that you have every single day that just kind of like keep on going so how was your lockdown Katie thank you for helping us get through ours sometimes it felt like you genuinely had some sort of like I don't know connection into the psyche of parents across the UK because I'd be feeling something and then up would pop a meme on Instagram that just summed it

up perfectly it's been such a tough time for everybody hasn't it and um you know I spend a lot of time thinking about those things and analyzing what people are feeling and talking to people about how they're feeling and I think that there just seemed to be more moments where I had something that I wanted to say like that at a time that really seemed to be affecting everybody so you know I did a few cartoons and things on various subjects and people seem to relate to them quite a lot but I think that's the thing we were all on the same boat weren't we we're all kind of going through the same struggles and the same anxieties and frustrations so one of the things I've been most surprised about is that the government haven't met your demand for teachers

to get a one million pound pay rise I know they really need to pull their finger out don't they really do I mean it should be at least a million at least a million if not two I was hoping you might have a bit of a Marcus Rashford moment and there'd be some huge turn. I think I asked for a pet unicorn for them as well or something so hopefully they'll get that too. Hopefully there's a unicorn farm being set up as we speak. Approximately how many times did you find yourself hiding in the cupboard under the stairs with a gin and tonic? Oh it's my cupboard under the stairs is just absolutely rammed full at the minute so you can't get in there unfortunately it's full of like paint as well because I bought loads of like nice farrow and ball paint at the start of lockdown like everybody else planning to like transform the

house and make it all beautiful and lovely and it's still there so and there it remains yes there will stay forever more now as I sit your gift is kind of celebrating the imperfections of parenting which you obviously meant to execute perfectly but let's be honest none of us ever do um but it doesn't come without criticism I went remember once the male did an infuriating piece called why are so many women boasting you know the slummy mummies piece where they said oh why are these women boasting, you know, the slummy mummies piece where they said, oh, why are all these women boasting? And you were heavily referenced in that article. And actually, we've interviewed Steph from Don't Buy Her Flowers, who was mentioned in it as well. So what do you say to those who reckon we shouldn't swear or drink gin

or having negative thoughts about our kids now and again? What's your retort? Bar humbug. I think, think yeah I do say that but the thing is I think that um when people complain about it they're not really looking at the bigger picture and I think that if you're times when I've been really struggling what's helped me is to understand that other people have been going through it too and that's part of the reason why I started my blog in the first place is because I couldn't really find people who had the same experience as me talking about the realities of you know being a mum that wasn't all glossy and lovely and happy and you know people

running through lavender fields throwing their children in the air and and so I felt really alone and then I think sharing it and laughing about it it makes it normal and then it makes people feel less alone so I think that you know by saying don't complain you know don't talk about this don't talk about that that it's actually can be quite damaging to people and so you know I think it's really important and I and I hope that I think most people understand that and most of my followers understand that but you obviously always get some people who don't understand the humour or don't think you should ever you know talk about having children in a not a negative way but you know talk about because it is hard isn't it it's okay to find it hard and I think by saying that

we find it hard it becomes less hard. I couldn't agree with you more I honestly think if it wasn't for the jokes how many of us would get through this how many of us would get through life let alone parenthood I mean I know you've said before that you haven't had the easiest time in the past you lost a pregnancy very traumatically before you had your oldest son and you suffered some anxiety after his birth it humor humor isn't a nice to have it's a vital isn't it exactly and I think that perhaps you know those kind of experiences impacted it too if you've like struggled to have children or been through a loss um beforehand some people might say oh you know you should feel even luckier and than the most and so you'd never complain about it but I think that that's the kind of pressure that I put on

myself was that once I finally had my son in my arms, I just was like, I should feel so lucky. I should feel so grateful. You know, I've got here. Some people don't get here. Some people can't have kids. And that pressure that I put myself under made it 10 times worse. Whereas, you know, as I came to realise it's OK to admit that it is really hard sometimes. Yeah. And I think that sharing that is is really important absolutely now Katie we know you love a gin you've named your entire brand around your favorite drink tell us about your favorite gin um oh I have I mean I have a few but it's I think people really expect me to be a massive gin connoisseur whereas I'm actually

yeah I know people do but I'm not too much I'm quite happy drinking any old gin to be honest like I mean Aldi gin's really good if you just want a cheap basic one and then that's an award winning one I think and but I like any of them I like and if I'm gonna buy um a fancier one I do like the kind of flavoured one so I like a Hendrix because that's the cucumbery flavored one um I like one called Professor Ampleforth's bathtub gin that's really nice that's got a love yeah it's um it's got like an orangey flavor to it uh so often I um I sort of focus on the kind of flavored ones if I'm going to spend a bit more money but I hear as well people saying that often it's not really the gin it's the tonic so you want to spend money on

getting a nice expensive tonic because that really brings a lot of the flavour to the gin as well so and I like getting those little you know the miniature cans yes yeah and so I have one of those yeah they're good though aren't they because if you have the big bottle of tonic often you you have you know have a bit and then you leave it. Yes, actually, you leave it in the fridge and then it's all flat. And then if you have just a little miniature can, that's enough for your gin.

And that is just perfectly fizzy. So that's my top tip. See, I like a little ready mixed gin in a tin. Oh yes, they're good. That's quite good for a train journey. Good for a train journey. Well, it reminds me of my favorite thing ever you know in fleabag when he says oh do you want a gin i've got cans from m&s

and i love him so much so i i drink gin and tin in honor of andrew scott should you be listening the other thing i was going to ask about gin harar for gin is why has no one come to you and said we think you should launch a gin? Or have they? I think that maybe a couple of people have suggested that actually. And I, and I think at the time, I've just been really busy and I haven't replied. So I don't know, really, I suppose, because sometimes I'm a bit nervous about doing something just for the sake of it, that people might be going, oh, that's just, you know, selling out or whatever. And I don't really know too much about it so is it is it just me just stamping my name on something but I wouldn't mind actually maybe so you know if you're a gin maker invite us to your launch party when it does yeah it would be pretty cool wouldn't it

yeah okay I have to do that I've noticed and I've admired you for a long time about this you're actually quite serious about the thing like you don't take endorsements and plug lots of stuff on your social media accounts and I've really admired you for that because there aren't many people actually who have a social media led business who don't succumb to the to the charms of a new kitchen floor or a bath um yeah tell us about that is it hard to resist the temptation like what's what's that all about yeah it has been hard actually sometimes when you get offered some pocket but I don't get offered that much stuff to be honest anymore because I think it's quite clear that I don't do it but I have in the past and I think you can make some really good money

um you know with ads and stuff and and get some good freebies but the thing is I and everyone needs to monetize what they do in some way so but for me I feel like if I did ads as well as selling you know I have my merchandise on my books it would just become too much and I feel like it really just doesn't fit in with what I do because as well I illustrate stuff and I'm not all about the lifestyle it would be really quite difficult for me to integrate that in a way that looked quite authentic I think so I just think you know you can't sell everything and I'm you know I'm asking people to perhaps support me by buying my my books or your cards or whatever it is and you know people people don't want to be sold to really, do they? They don't like it. So you can't do too much.

But I think if someone were to look at your Instagram feed, you might be known as someone who sees the lighter side of parenting in your illustrations. But actually, a huge amount of what you do is really quite serious. You tackle head on. Yes. amount of what you do is really quite serious you tackle head-on yes how like you did one a couple of weeks ago about saying fyi you were a shite teacher mummy and then the other one says well fyi you were a shite student and so there is that funny thing and I think about five of my friends shared that with me because it was so true but then also you did loads of stuff in lockdown about us all saying something's got to give and you know the kind of mental health side of things and I wonder if what do you see yourself

as more do you see yourself as calling out that side of things or as someone who's comedic I don't know and I do think I do do a mix so it really depends on my mood like sometimes I feel like I want to draw a funny cartoon and then often the ones that that feel like they're coming from a deeper place that's really that's me and that's what I'm going through at that minute and that you know when it was something that's got to give that was you know there's been points in the last particularly this period of lockdown the last you know couple of months I've been just felt like I'm not able to cope at all. Like I'm almost like I'm really on the verge of losing my mind. There's too much to do.

You know, I just couldn't do everything. I couldn't cope with my workload and having the kids and all the anxiety with lockdown. And, you know, all of that is just too much. And I think that often when I do it post like that that is just you know this is how I'm feeling and and perhaps because I've noticed that that's something that when I talk to my friends or when I talk to people that they've been going through a similar time and it and so I wanted to reach out and say look this is how I'm feeling I get it and I think a lot of other people are feeling the same and and that's what that's what always helps and it helps me um and it helps me when I post so when

I post it's not just help other people I post then everyone comments going oh my god oh my god and I read all the comments and I think oh god thank you know thank god it isn't just me too so it works both ways do you think you've started a bit of a trend for what you do because I see kind of almost copycat things sometimes appearing on Instagram for instance a have you noticed it and b do you see it as flattering or do you or is it a bit annoying um do you know what I to be honest I don't really notice it and I think that's a little bit because I one of my struggles with you know and how I try and look after my mental health a bit is by not going on not looking too much on social media or particularly not looking too much at all of what everyone else is doing in my field because I don't like getting

sucked into that competitive way of thinking and analyzing like oh you know how many likes did this get oh that person's doing a lot better than me and I think it's really well there's no way to it is there because there's always going to be someone doing a bit better than you there's always going to be someone doing a bit worse there's always someone doing something better yeah exactly you're never going to get to the end yeah exactly so I think it's quite healthy to try and take a step back and and give it a bit of balance really but um so I don't notice too much and then obviously like as my kids have got older as well I don't talk you know I talk less about parenting and more about life in general which includes the kids but it isn't like solely focused on parenting so I don't and I don't follow a lot of or I don't you know look up a lot of other parenting blogs or content because it's not really my mindset or

what I want to read so so yeah I kind of ignore it what's really annoying though is when people blatantly rip me off and and take my cartoons and either just put their own tags on them like pretending that they've they've drawn them or that's the worst it's really annoying and I just I mean I've given up like almost trying to take people down who do it because it's just too time consuming but the worst is when people actually then take the pictures and put them on cards or you know actually try and sell them as their own that's just lazy that's just bloody it is stealing yeah it is stealing and because you know it's happened to some of the the things I've been shared the most amount of times there's a popular Christmas one where it's like feeling Christmassy and then feeling confused.

Oh, that one about cheese. Yes, everywhere. And, you know, I've given up, there's no point in me even sharing these things anymore because they've just become, you know, sort of so mainstream that they're almost, they're not mine anymore. They're just the sort of internet. So they lose all value. As soon as you start sharing stuff without crediting people, it loses its value completely to the person who originally created it so but that's just the the nature of

the internet so it doesn't doesn't make me angry it's just a bit annoying but what makes me angry is when people actually pretend to have made it redraw it or just you know yeah rip it off in their own way or yeah try and monetize it themselves that's that's not a not a mistake that's you know there's an intent to try and benefit from it which isn't very fair no it's not fair at all it's got to be pretty flattering once you get over the fact you're really pissed off with them that you're so some of your cartoons are so prolific that I think I could do a pop survey of all of my friends and every single one of them would have seen that Christmas one where you say confused and full of cheese and then fat. Do you find that a little bit, is that quite weird that so many people have, you're kind of part of public psyche or certainly mums and dad's psyche yeah um yeah it's weird and I don't I suppose I don't really try and I don't really tend to think about

it that much I just almost sort of disassociate a little bit from it but I think also like I mean I'm not I don't really I'm quite a private person so don't really covet the attention and um part of the reason you know I started doing these cartoons and then I used to do a lot more pictures of myself and my general life and um pictures of the kids and I really took a step as it started growing I took a step back from that and now it's really I don't put much much of myself on there I don't put my face on there very often at all I don't put the kids on ever and I feel like that's my kind of protection against that and I don't want to give up my you know all the details of our everyday life anymore because I do find it a bit weird and I think the

turning point with that came when um the kids got recognized a couple of times when we were out and about and then I felt it just felt a bit weird like there was no nothing dodgy about it but but I felt weird that people were looking at them knowing who they were and the kids didn't hadn't you know weren't aware of why they might be looked at or you know how people might know them and it just didn't everyone has their own take on it and it's fine I think you as a parent you make your own decision but for me it just felt as it grew it felt nice to be able to hide behind the pictures a little bit um and perhaps I'm lucky that I can do that because I fell into doing the pictures and that's that became my my main thing anyway so it was quite easy for me to just carry on down that route and stop doing so much about my everyday life well I wanted to ask you about that how how did

it ever start did you just sit down one day and be like and find yourself drawing this picture and writing this funny caption or was there a plan like how did her after din get born yeah well the stick figures came later actually but her after din got born when I just literally on a whim I was just sat on their sofa and I've always liked writing and I had sort of done a couple of other blogs before in my life that never went anywhere but I um just with you know with all the parenting and how I struggled and I couldn't find anything out there at the time that was of a similar kind of nature I just said oh to my husband I'm going to start a blog and I'm going to talk about like the

realities of parenting um and I just thought I'm going to call it hurrah for gin because of the connection to you know mother's ruin as well so it was as simple as that I didn't give it a lot of thought I just started doing it and that is grown to here and then um with the cartoons that was I don't know how many if that was like a year or two later I'm not sure specifically when it was but I remember the first blog that I did and it was a story that I wrote about my son was he had a fake plastic saw and he was sort of building a house and he'd come up to me and he's got this little fake plastic saw and he started sawing at my my arm I think it was and he goes I'm gonna chop you up into bits and build a house out of you and I was like oh that's very

nice and it kind of the point of it was was I'm saying you know one day motherhood will become worth it when they come up to you and they go oh oh, I'm going to chop you up into bits and build a house out of you. And I didn't have a picture of that, obviously. So I just drew a picture of him. So I think it was of him sawing me up or something just to and it was just a little stick figure, you know, black and white picture. And I did that and just and then I just liked doing it. And I did a couple more and it quickly became apparent that the humour that I could get across in these pictures, people really liked, and I did a couple more and it quickly became apparent that the humour that I could get across in these pictures people really liked and I could just have a lot of fun creatively without having to worry about finding the right picture I could just draw stuff and I really enjoyed it and people seemed to really enjoy it and then it just went from there and then suddenly everything

was stick pictures and it was art and comedy your background? Was that your job before? No, I used to work in advertising, like digital advertising in London agencies for many years. So I didn't have a background in that, but I've always been of that kind of silly sense of humour and I've always been quite creative and I've always loved writing. I always kept diaries when I was little. So I've always kind of had that in me if you like I love that it wasn't what you did before because one of the things I love about when people become parents is it almost seems to like reveal

some extra depth or talent that they never knew they had do you know what I mean yeah there's so many people who've launched businesses as becoming parents or even just people who become more real or more funny or more just different in their personal life it's fascinating what it does to people isn't it it really is and I think yeah it's the same so many people you know all the school mums they just do so many different types of jobs and you know so many of them have their own businesses or work freelance and stuff and I think yeah the vast majority have had a big shift in their career since they had kids and that's really cool but then also I wonder if it's not cool in other ways because you know the other the flip side of that is I kind of ended up doing this mostly because I was made redundant and then I

couldn't find another job because I wasn't able to get back into what I was doing because I had kids and I couldn't no one you know it was a full-time job and it was up all up in London and I think things have changed a bit now though haven't they there's much more um there's a much more shift to like you know helping working parents and flexible working and stuff but at the time I felt like my career had gone down the pan because I wasn't able to get back into it if I wanted unless I wanted to you know go and work full-time up in London which is two hours on the train there and back every day so it just felt like I either had to go and do that and completely give up seeing my son or my sons when they were little yeah or change track I'm glad I did obviously yeah it's kind of I guess that's what I

mean about the change when people compare it's like it's almost like a needs must like your needs change they become much more kind of visceral and real and like oh my god I've got to do this new I've got to do I've got to change something in my life and yet often that tension brings about something quite cool and amazing now Katie what interests me is you started off doing all this but now you are an actual real life proper author with two books to your name and one on the way and we'll come on to the fact in a minute that I've got a bone to pick with you about this book my daughter got an advanced copy and I have had some seriously interesting questions over the last week since she read it but how old is she nine yeah okay yeah exactly um but how first of all how did you what made you decide to write a

kid's book after writing two books that are firmly aimed at parents well actually I've done three books as well so I'm so terribly sorry don't worry my research is that's fine I've done three books as well so I'm so terribly sorry don't worry my research is that's fine I've done two parent years and then my last bit was called reluctant adult which is a bit less about parenting it's more about life but it does have some parenting in too um and then I felt like I'd covered off everything that I had to say like my personal stance on life and parenting and stuff so I felt like that was kind of done for me um and then in terms of like writing for children that's something I've wanted to do since I was a kid myself really um so I'm just trying to think of

ways in which I can carry on doing what I like and but you know branch out and move into a new area um and that was also confounded by the my editor at Penguin also approached me and said had you ever thought of writing for kids and I was like uh yes I have and then they I think they sort of suggested you know maybe looking at doing something like young adult like a teenage kind book. And I was quite keen to do something a little bit younger because for me, when I think about when I loved reading, well, I've always loved reading, but it was a real key part of my life when I was in that kind of 10, 11 year old age bracket

where I think it's a really difficult time for kids because there's just so many changes. Everything's changing. You're changing schools, you're changing just so many changes everything's changing you know you're changing schools you're changing friendship groups your body's changing and I just remember it being really awkward and kind of almost a bit harrowing and then finding all these Judy Bloom books in the library and reading Judy Bloom I just loved I loved them and are you there good it's me margaret is i suppose kind of the one that for me yeah it's probably one of the first ones and it was the one that really spoke to me

at that period of my life because it was literally what i was going through and so i kind of wanted and then i couldn't find um i couldn't find much of a modern day equivalent like there was a lot of younger and a lot of older teenage stuff but i couldn't find much of a modern day equivalent. Like there was a lot of younger and a lot of older teenage stuff, but I couldn't really find many books out there that kind of did speak to that age range. Though I really wanted to do something that was about that tricky period in young girls' lives. And I wanted to sort of make it funny, but also talk about all those kind of like awkward issues and awkward things like bras and periods but make it kind of normal and sort of make it something that girls can relate to and

think oh yeah I'm going through that too yeah well I think I don't want to sound too gushy over you because it will just embarrass me as well and she has a habit of doing this and we've told them off many times for gushing over guests when When I like people, I like people. But I think your talent is for cutting to the truth of something and cutting through the veneer that everyone thinks you should put on everything and sort of telling it like it is. And so I think it's crucial almost that you apply that to kids in that age group because they really need it, don't they? Definitely. I think it's a really tricky age and it's it's difficult to talk to your parents about stuff like you start getting really

awkward and embarrassed about things and you and perhaps you just don't want to you want to kind of read about it and talk about it with your friends and stuff and saying you know you're okay you're going to get through this it's all very normal my daughter loved it she was squirreled upstairs she read it in like four days or something and she thought it was brilliant that's a very good so when's it out katie it's out next week it's so weird it's been such a long process like i started honestly it's been about three years since those kind of initial conversations and i started writing it because i've had other things projects on and stuff it's taken me quite a long time to do but um but yeah it's finally and then

you know now I'm looking at it going oh it's an actual book and it's actually out next week and it just feels really mad and did it take you a while to find your kid voice or did it happen quite naturally um I did feel nervous but but I do feel like my sense of humour in style of writing is quite immature anyway. So I don't think it was that difficult in some ways. But I just struggled trying to think at first. I was trying to do it, I think, too old. And I felt like I didn't have as much to say.

And this was the age that really felt like that was the period in my life where I really remember those kind of feelings and those experiences quite clearly and I just felt like this was the age I really wanted to speak to so once I had that it was fine. I'm always fascinated by kids authors about the age that they tend to write for and it usually is like you've just said because you feel a real affinity for that age group. Your style has always reminded me a bit of, you know, Jeff Kinney, who wrote Die a Ruinpy Kid? Yes. And we've had him on the pod, actually. He's such a lovely man.

I said to him, why do you write for that age group? And he was like, because a part of me is stuck that age. And like, I just know, I know I can talk like that like kids do at that age yeah I think that that's probably is is a similar thing isn't it and and perhaps that's that's how I felt too like I just really felt like quite connected to that age but um and I think you know I've got two boys so I don't have which is a bit annoying because actually it'd be more helpful to have a girl no because they don't they don't care they're just not interested whatsoever and I've sort of when when this arrived I said oh my gosh it's my books they

revived my son was waiting um he wanted some plastic folders for his he's got drawing folding but his drawings in his way to plastic pockets to arrive to go in that and he was just like oh god it's always for you the post and I know I've shown them they're just like oh whatever it's just for girls I'm not interested so they're um and also I don't think they believe that I'm a proper writer because I got him another day a book the other day from a author who um we have the same agent and the same um publisher and I gave it to him and he was like oh it's really good and I said oh I'll tell them that you really liked it and he was like oh you know them you like know an author and I was like well yeah I do I am an author and he's like oh whatever and so I don't think they just think

I'm really rubbish and like I don't know what I'm doing I don't know but no they're not interested and I so well they might be if they keep saying why can't you write something for boys so when that's next then there's your challenge right for your harshest critics yeah now I wanted to ask you about a very triggering word okay oh come on well I don't know but this word really annoys me and I think it might really annoy you too and it is the word mumpreneur oh yep yeah and I read an article once called we're not sodding mumpreneurs and I just thought that's it was such a brilliant article because it was basically saying I happen to be a mother and I happen to run my own business or I happen to be an author or I happen to have done something really bloody innovative and then I get lumped into this like oh but you're a mumpreneur

does it piss you off as much as it annoys me yeah I don't like it I don't like mum boss either because that's the same sort of thing isn't it um yeah I'm not a big fan but the only way I sort of the support I have for it is that sometimes it's just not worth getting annoyed about I mean what where it'll come from is just that like we were saying earlier that mums do often change their careers and do something different so I suppose it sort of spins off from that of it being something that you've changed in you know your life's changed and then you've changed your track a bit and so I suppose it comes from there so it's probably not as meant in that kind of way in the way that a lot of people take it but I suppose it is it just does feel a bit condescending doesn't it really when they're saying it's just yeah it

it's it's almost saying that you're not a real entrepreneur you're a mum mum mum i can't even say it it's so hard to say yeah mum mum put a print there i'm gonna ask an easier question so ultimately one of the things that we ask all of our guests and it's very deep how do you want to be remembered katie kirby or what when i die yeah sorry we're bumping you off basically or when you leave the world it's a bit dark and he wrote these questions just caveat not my fault no what i mean is if you go and if you move to wales to run a chicken farm and we never hear about you again what is it that you want us to remember you for is it that cheese meme is it the christmas cheese the cheese christmas cheese me i'll maybe i'll get that put on my gravestone there

the meme and get it carved in or something uh yeah i don't know just the lady who draws really bad pictures or something bad stick figures i suppose fine that's a good answer now the other big important question we always ask is and what's for tea you know what I'm having now what are you having and who's cooking is it you or himself do you know what I've met something I don't ever cook tell us more so yeah my husband does all the cooking in our house and he's he absolutely loves it and I don't really like it at all so it's over the course of the time I've done less and less until the point that I just don't really do anything so that's good I'm doing less actually I would say my other half does most of it now I just yeah I've fallen out of love with it um but do you get to put in requests oh yeah yeah I

definitely get to put in requests um so the other weird thing is that we've both gone mostly vegan now so which is yeah which is also something really very on brand i think i've been yeah i know i think i've been a bit condescending of it in the past perhaps but well gin is vegan so that's all good exactly so that's 90 of my diet so clearly so yeah um so we'll be having we often do a takeaway Friday, to be honest. So if we do that, we often have Thai. I love a bit of Thai or curry. And curry is very good for vegan veggie stuff.

And do the boys follow the vegan-ness? Absolutely not. No, they don't. No, I couldn't even hope to encourage them to do that because they don't eat enough as it is so if I took meat away I'd be really really stuck so no they're I know I so we as a family we're trying to cut down on our meat eating for kind of environmental reasons and then my son has been going through these fainting spells took him to the to a hospital appointment and they were like he needs to be eating a lot more red meat.

So we've had to completely revert. And they're now practically like cannibals with the amount of bloody red meat. Give him in steak for breakfast and stuff. Absolutely. I'm crowbarring like minced beef into meals that should never have been near a cow. So not very vegan then? not very vegan you went on the scummy mummy's podcast correct yep did you have to wear the cat suit I did have to wear it I still got it yeah I did um I've got like a electric blue one I've still got it. Did you really? Yeah, I did. I've got like an electric blue one. I've still got it in one of my drawers somewhere. Oh, my one. So there's a picture of me somewhere on their channel, I think.

Do you wear it to do the hoovering now? I might do tonight, actually. I'd forgotten about it, but maybe I'll put it on tonight and do the hoovering. Lucky Mr. Harar for you. I was going to say. Gosh. Right, Annie, last question. Here we go.

Right, it's the big one. We ask this of all our guests, so please don't feel victimised, OK? OK. Imagine you're tucking me and Wendy into bed, right? Imagine we're your third and fourth children. Bit creepy, I know. What would you sing to us? And please, will you sing it for us to help us get to sleep?

Because we know every family has a lullaby that they pull out of the bag when the kids are finding it hard to drop off. Oh, gosh. Well, I don't know, what would I sing? What I do with my kids is I do, they call it a teddy story. So it's not a song. Well, sometimes it's a song,

but they basically make me get their teddies and act out like some really random story from my head. Wow, you're such a good mum. Well, yeah. I mean, they often end up in some sort of like ultimate fighting championship where all the teddies are like dropkicking. That sounds more like it, yeah. So I'm not sure if it'll really help you get to sleep.

That's what I often do with my kids. And apart from that, I'd probably sing something. I mean, I like a bit of pop music, to be honest. So I like a bit of The Weeknd, Dua Lipa uh Justin Bieber something like that would that that work I think my kids would be scarred for life if I tried to sing that come on hit us up Katie go for it what with whichever one you fancy is it too late now to say sorry because I miss him on and just your body baby i can't believe you just made me do that i love it look we make everybody do it ronan keating refused i think you win the prize for uh bringing the most

funkiness to the whole thing because we've had edelweiss and we've even had a hymn. Oh, wow. So you took it sharply in the other direction. And Briony Gorton just sang us a song that if I start singing it, that's it, it's in my head for the rest of the day. No, I know. What was it though? Cuddles with Edie, cuddles with Edie. Cuddles with Edie, there's no better way to spend the day. I feel like I should have had something nicer now.

No, I think that's bad. I'm just dropping these freaking teddies. Right. On that joyous note, thank you so much. You've been an amazing guest, Katie. And thank you for getting us all through lockdown. It's really, really fun. We couldn't have done it without you.

Nice to talk to actual people. I know. It is, isn't it? Right. See you next time, Sweat, Snot and Teary Lot. Bye-bye.