The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep28: Louise Pentland on being a mum when you've lost your own

Episode Date: March 30, 2021

Listen as Annie and Wendy talk to one of the original 'online creators' about vlogging your birth, the fine line between sharing and over-sharing, and why she thinks she attracts the most positive comments on YouTube. Louise's book 'MumLife: What Nobody Ever Tells You About Being a Mum', is out now.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Welcome everyone to the latest episode of Sweat, Snot and Tears. So since we last spoke, I've ordered a gas pipe and had a mammogram, which combined conjured up quite a mixture of

sweats not in tears which of these would you like to talk about Wendy uh the gas pipe the gas pipe so the gas pipe involves digging up our front garden and can't be done for six weeks and wait for it essentially you're saying I would like to become a customer of you, Mr. Gas Company, but you have to pay for it. You have to pay them a thousand pounds to become their customer. So that's why I was a bit teary. No, that's just taking the P. Right. Tell me something you've done since we last spoke. I have done extensive research into cold sores because I've never had one in my life no I've never had one in my life I've never had one my poor little nine-year-old gets them really badly and most of the stuff you can use for them is for over 16s

so if anybody listening has a miracle cure for cold sores and a poor little nine-year-old whose lip is on fire please email me and let me know. So after this call, actually, I will go and talk to my mother, the resident nurse, who gets them herself and has quite a little regime going for when she gets one. She might have a theory about what to do with the kid. Who gave it to... How does she have it, though? I don't know. Does Tim get them?

Tim gets them, yes. Oh, there you go. I think probably Daddy's in charge, but poor old Claire was feeling a bit sad. Let's blame Dad, shall we? So tears in our house this morning. Now, shall we do, I'm not sure how that segues into our guests, but I'm sure it does somehow. This mum of two's parenting blog, Sprinkle of Glitter, was one of the most successful of its kind. She has 2.5 million followers on Instagram, which makes us look absolutely rubbish, Wend.

More than that divided by her two YouTube channels she's authored a series of fiction and non-fiction books three years ago she shared her labour and birth on YouTube there's a lot for us to talk about welcome Louise Pentland hi thank you so much for having me thank you and I wish I had a miracle cure for cold sores for you but I don't oh Oh do you get them? No. Fortunately not no but I feel sorry for your little one who has them. Yes it's really sad but first things first we always ask our guests the same question which is have there been any sweaty snotty or teary moments in the pentland house this morning um yes and no so my children are both absolutely fine i recorded a youtube video today that was really emotional

um obviously we're pre-recording this but i recorded a video that's going to go up on mother's day um which is about my mother who sadly passed away when I was seven. And we've had something really amazing happen, actually, which is during lockdown, my dad, who's still alive, he was going through all of his old boxes of stuff, and he found this tape. And we don't have the tech to play this tape because it's so old. It's from the 80s.

So he sent it off to this company to get it made onto like a memory card or a memory stick and he found that it was all this footage home footage from when I was really little of my mum before she died and you can hear her voice on it and none of us have heard her voice for 28 years so um I was making a video about that this morning and I could feel myself welling up but not with sadness more just with like this is really emotive so yes from me but everyone else it is pretty it's pretty okay that must be so phenomenal to see it's been amazing because one of the things that I've always been really open about particularly on Instagram and my YouTube channel is that I really try and weave my mum into as much of my motherhood

to my girls as possible. Like we have pictures of her everywhere. We have lots of her jewellery and her decor. My children both have her name as their middle name. But the one thing I don't have is any footage or I can't remember the sound of her voice. Like if we were in a crowded room and a woman shouted Louise, I would not think it was her because I just can't remember what she sounded like so it's been a really interesting few weeks to look back over all that footage and um see her moving like see her interacting see her hairstyles over the years hear her voice it's been incredible actually what an amazing gift how old are your kids now and how aware are they of her? So Darcy is nine, nearly 10. She knows that granny's in heaven. She's seen pictures of her. I haven't shown her any of the footage yet because I'm just waiting till life is a bit more normal

for her. We've just gone back to school. It's all a bit chaotic. And then Pearl is three and she doesn't really understand it too much. So how has lockdown been for the family Pentland? I know we're on the end of lockdown three. And if we're honest, we're all a little bit bloody over it now, aren't we? A little bit. So tell us about your lockdown, the highs, the lows, the lows. What's been going on so lockdown one was terrible um I found it really it was such a shock it was really difficult because all of a

sudden all the support networks I put in place in our lives were just completely gone so obviously Darcy wasn't in school Pearl didn't have any child care because we employ a nanny to work four days a week so that I can work and I'm the main breadwinner in our family so suddenly the nanny obviously can't come Darcy's at school so I need to look after at the time a two-year-old but also homeschool at the time an eight-year-old Liam works in the emergency services the time an eight-year-old. Liam works in the emergency services so he couldn't take time off so he was at work and it was falling on me to continue working but still take on the role of, you know, early years childcare and a teacher.

That sounds very familiar. It's all sounding very familiar. And then on top of that, the day before lockdown it all started on mother's day last year actually I've almost got like ptsd thinking about it um I started having a lot of pain in my like front like the vampire tooth you know your is it incisor incisor yeah yeah yeah and so I love the fact you call it your vampire tooth yeah it's brilliant I'm changing it to that now so I went to the dentist, which I have a major phobia of. And I was like, whatever,

maybe they'll give me some antibiotics. Nope, took it out. Oh, no. I have major dental phobia as well. Yeah, like I'm talking, I can't even watch a toothpaste advert without feeling a bit uneasy. I cry when they tip the chair back

and I have this thing that I can't let them put metal in my mouth. That's what I have as well. I hate it. Or when they say, I'm just going to tap on the tooth. I'm like, no, I'm not. Anyway, so they said, don't worry. We can do a false tooth over that gap.

It's called a bridge. Don't worry about it. And I was like, okay. So they took this tooth off, out. I'm like, I'm off my face and all the stuff they've given me. I've got blood on my face. I was like, okay, I'm going to do the other tooth now other tooth now and they said no we have to wait till lockdown's ended because we can't do cosmetics no so I just had this big gap and of course a lot of my stuff is media facing

gap in my face and I just felt like I was falling apart and so I look back on the first lockdown not with fond memories at all you know some people are like you know we really loved it we could be at home what I did did not not not at all not a sausage nothing about it then summer came got my tooth done so now I can smile without a big gap which is great smile with confidence smile with confidence sounds like an ad yeah it does unfortunately they didn't pay me so I paid them to do it um normal-ish summer then lockdown two electric avenue happened and it didn't really feel like a lockdown did it because kids were still going to school I think that some stuff was still open wasn't it was like some shops or restaurants or something was open I'm sure of it

um and then Christmas came and then all of a sudden we're in this lockdown and I was so braced thinking this is going to be like that first one and it just hasn't been I think oh that's good yeah it's not a shock to the system um Liam and I so Liam's my fiancee we're not the arguing type really although the other day we had an argument about worktops in the kitchen and it ended with him saying, well, sorry, I didn't know you were so passionate

about the worktops. And I was like, oh, how dare you? Yes, I am passionate about the worktops because I think we're just getting on each other's, we're just so close all the time. Too much, too much. You're not supposed to spend 24 seven with your family. It's just not meant to happen. But I said at the end of the first lockdown, I'm really

sick of everybody I married or birthed. And that was the first one. And now there's this meme going around, which is slightly ruder, which I won't say on here, but basically it's something to do with people who have come out of or been into a certain place and I think we're all just sick to death of the four walls we live in and we love them as we do the people we spend all of our time with yeah it's just not healthy you're not like even in the stone age they had hunters and gatherers they didn't all hang out together like they knew they needed to split their time that's true I do like spending time with them but what I want to do is add more people into the mix I want to be able to have friends over I want to be able to socialize I want to be able to go places and have it as quality time I don't really want to be talking to my husband

about loading and unloading the dishwasher I don't really want to be talking to my kids about fractions I don't really want to talk to anybody ever about fractions quite well yeah christ um so what i really want to ask you about is that birth on youtube can you tell us about it please what made you want to do it and can you please clear up the rumors i've seen things online that it was some kind of free birth with no one present it wasn't was it i mean have you watched the video yes i was watching it this morning it's quite funny actually because my daughter was wandering around getting ready for school and she wandered in she was like what is this mummy and I was like well come and see and her mind was quite blown so no if you've watched the video you'll know it wasn't a free birth there were people there there were two midwives and yes Liam the

father of the child so it was not a free birth I would have freaked out if I'd have been on my own yes and I didn't actually give birth online you can't actually yes the moment yeah yeah is not there um yeah there's no um business end shots at all there's no like it's so tame that I haven't even had to blur anything because there's no like bum boobs none of that is just and I always think actually I was that that's actually the least interesting bit like everyone's seen that in movies and stuff or on telly by now the more interesting thing I always think is the lead up to it the labor because that's what women need help with that's the long drawn out bit where you're in bloody agony isn't it yes it is uh it doesn't have to be long drawn out no no but what I mean is it's a

challenge for anyone and and I think that's why it's nice that people like you share it because that's where we need the women to women support I think yeah I really wanted to highlight a positive birth experience obviously I didn't know beforehand that I would definitely have a positive birth experience what happened with Darcy my nine-year-old, I had a really traumatic birth experience. It was an induced birth in a hospital. I felt like a lot of my choices were taken away from me. I felt like I didn't go in there fully prepared mentally or emotionally. I just watched One Born Every Minute and thought, oh, I'm pregnant.

I'll, you you know get bigger and bigger and bigger go into hospital scream huff and puff and pop out a baby hurrah yeah you wouldn't run a marathon without doing any training and you shouldn't do birth without doing any training for that so I actually did hypnobirthing with the positive birth company and it just blew my mind like if you'd have said to me before I was pregnant with Pearl do you want to do hypnobirthing I'd be like not really like no offense but it's it sounds a bit woo woo hippy dippy for me like I'm a bit more cut and dry I'm like no I'll just have the medication thanks very much um and then when I looked into it I realized it's not this sort of like woo woo incense and

fairies crap it's not that that's crap if you like that kind of thing um who doesn't love a fairy well who doesn't yeah um but you know incense and fairies weren't going to cut it for me in labor I needed something a bit more on that um and it's actually just prenatal education and it's about how to use your body to the best of its ability. Like I didn't know that your uterus is a muscle. I just thought it was like a big sack that you keep your baby in. Did not know that was a muscle. Didn't know that you need oxygen to make your muscles work to the best of their abilities. Didn't know that if you get stressed, you release adrenaline, which cramps up your muscles, therefore making it harder for you to labor and give birth. All of that sort

of stuff. I just didn't know. But hypnobirthing taught me that. And I was diagnosed with PTSD from Darcy's birth because it was just so traumatic. And I just thought that's normal. I thought, right, well, that's giving birth. Because whenever you see it on the TV, it looks horrific. People just almost revel in telling you the most dramatic story they possibly can they weren't like a badge of honor yeah nobody ever tells you they're great stories do you only ever get told well I did that's what exactly whenever I meet someone pregnant I say you know you've got to watch my video or let me tell you I had a very calm very relaxed very manageable birth um did it hurt yes was it anything I couldn't handle no um you can never not handle pain because it's your body creating it and you can handle your body and

I really wanted to be able to say look you can have a positive birth experience I wouldn't go as far as you know you hear those women women that are like oh I had like an orgasm as I gave birth definitely not like if I had the choice I'd not like to give birth again because it's it stings um but it was beautiful and it was calm and it was dignified and that's something I'd really struggled with from Darcy's birth and I wanted to show that you know birth doesn't have to be this big screaming red face, hideous experience. You can be in control and have a good one. So that's why I put it online. But birth trauma, it's no joke.

It comes in many different guises. My first birth was a cesarean birth that was also incredibly traumatic for probably completely different reasons to yours. But what I feel like we have in common is that lack of choice and feeling like you have no say in what's happening to you. Yeah. Do you think you'll ever really recover from it? Is it something that you still hold with you? Yes, I think that I will recover from it. I think I have recovered from it. Firstly, I had some counselling for it, which I would recommend anybody. There's a service actually on the NHS, which is free of charge in a lot of hospitals, sadly not all, where you can do a meet the matron service where you can ring the maternity ward. It doesn't matter how long ago you

had your baby. For me, it was six years later. And you can ask someone maternity ward. It doesn't matter how long ago you had your baby. For me, it was six years later. And you can ask someone to go through your notes with you because a lot of the time when you're in labour, I'm sure you can attest this, whether you have a labour and a vaginal delivery or a cesarean delivery, you're not thinking totally rationally because you are in the moment. You are in discomfort or pain or fear or worry or heightened emotions. So the matron, she was called Paula, amazing woman, I actually had her at my birth in the end. She went through all my notes and she validated my feelings. She said, yes, that would have been traumatic for you. She didn't say, oh, we did a terrible job, aren't we awful?

Because I don't think the NHS are. I just think that I didn't understand what had happened. She went through it. And then from there, I could pinpoint the things that had really upset me about it and then deal with those. So that was amazing. And I felt able to, one, have validation from an expert who has seen births and is qualified in that field. And two two it allowed me to pinpoint the problem areas and then deal with those so that healed that and then of course having Pearl and proving that you can have this beautiful birth really just solidified that so I feel very at ease and at comfort but I don't want you to feel like you've got to have another baby to get over the trauma of the last one yes that's a good point research to see if you can do that meet the matron service

um research to see if there's counselling that you could take part in either privately which of course comes at a cost but also the nhs do provide it um unfortunately at a wait list but i think that you can get over birth trauma that's good to know and and very hopeful in fact one of our other guests, we had a really interesting chat and very emotional one actually with Tana Ramsey on another episode who lost a baby very late in pregnancy. And she said she's someone who's incredibly private and in some ways quite introverted. And when someone recommended counselling after that, she was a bit like, well, how is this going to help me? This isn't going to bring my baby back, blah, blah, blah, but said there was something about the talking,

the to and fro of a conversation with someone who knows and understands what you're going through that is so relieving and so helpful. It does work, doesn't it? I think so. I think obviously everybody's got a different personality and everyone will have a different story, but I think that it doesn't hurt to try it absolutely and that's what she said she said you know give it a go anything's worth a go to try and help yourself move forward from something

so something I wanted to ask you based you've mentioned already in this episode that your mum died of breast cancer when you were very small and then you then suffered abuse at the hands of a woman in your life. Do you think that the very positive and celebratory approach to motherhood that you take is in response to that in some way that you were almost determined to rewrite your experience and produce something utterly unrecognisable for your own children? That's a lovely question and the answer is yes just a thousand million percent yes. Too often abuse particularly childhood abuse is carried on down the generations and then you find you have generational trauma and I was just

not going to have that like I can't think of anything that I would like less in the world I will do everything in my power to ensure that my children don't have the same experience I did it was horrific um too horrific to talk about on a podcast of course just I would never ever want them to have that and I've almost gone so far the other way I've gone past average normal like mum life and into like I want to make every day special um and I don't mean like every day is a trip to Disney World because that's unrealistic and also I don't especially not in lockdown yes especially not in lockdown I don't want to live this like mad life of like every day is a treat day but I really make sure to celebrate all the small things with them um and even in the moments when I'm frazzled

and especially in lockdown we think bloody hell I am done um I still always have the forefront of my mind that this is a loving family and my children have a lovely life and that's my job to help create that for them and to make them feel safe and I've started talking a little bit to Darcy about what happened to me only lightly in a kind of age appropriate way um so that a she feels able to share with me anything that she ever needs to that's going on in her life but also so that she can really appreciate why share with me anything that she ever needs to that's going on in her life but also so that she can really appreciate why I'm the mummy that I am because sometimes it's like mum you're so embarrassing like I pick her up from school and immediately like give her such a big

cuddle and kiss all over her face and she's like mum stop I'm like I can't help it I just love you um so yeah I do think that I am positive I am so grateful that this is my life and I don't mean all like the YouTube and Instagram cool stuff I mean that I live in a peaceful safe household and that I'm happy and that my children are safe um and when you have an attitude of gratitude for something everything is brighter even lockdown even lockdown even lockdown even that so you've collaborated with so many big names in the world of parenting vlogs um you were famous for your friendship with zoella yeah is it some sort of jolly old cozy world behind the scenes or were you secretly all plotting to steal the crown we interviewed um Anna Saccone Jolie recently and she was so lovely so it would appear to be cupcakes

and rainbows but there's always stories of you guys falling out and stuff so come on dish what's the reality well our dishes all very dramatic we all it's like dynasty yeah we all secretly hate each other and we're all constantly working with many PR agents to try and bring each other's demise which is why we've all spent 10 years supporting each other excellent response yeah going to everyone's launch parties and shouting each other out and um applauding each other online that's actually all just a ruse so oh to go to a launch party right now honestly oh lovely I the honest answer is I would say it's neither it's not cupcakes or rainbows because I don't think anything is and it's also not nearly as dramatic as people seem to want it to be

something I talk about a lot because um people are always like have you thought that was such and such yeah I'm just a mum like how many 35 year old mums of two with a full-time job do you know that can every weekend go to friends houses and hang out and make videos of like dicking around all day not many so that's what happened when you put on the birth certificate what your job title is can you put dicking around that would be great dicking around online that's what I put um interviewed the pope but dicking around online that's me um it's not nearly as dramatic as people think um we are all people though and of course sometimes you think not really sure I agree with that whether that's behind closed doors they've said something

or done something that you don't like like any friend would or sometimes you see online you think that's not how I would have done that but some of them I would say are friends and some of them I would say are colleagues um but I would like to think that none of them are like enemies um so I think it's just I wish it was a bit more exciting I wish I could be like well guess who is sleeping with who but sadly um well that's it I'm sorry if you could just we're done now if you could just leave I don't want to you know there's nothing else we want the drama well maybe I do know but I can never tell you dun dun dun it makes me think a bit a bit back to the Megan interview where she said you know just because you like one doesn't mean you have to

hate the other it's a bit it's a bit like that isn't it like why does everything have to be either we love each other or we hate each other shouldn't really we have to be like that in 2021 should it no it shouldn't well I don't I don't think it should be like that anytime I think that I get why people feel that way because I certainly do like I follow a lot of real celebrities and I think oh I wonder if what such and such thinks of such and such so I would imagine for like online creators it's the same vibe and even I will watch other creators and think that person hasn't filmed with that person in a while I wonder wonder what's going on there. So I completely get it. And I think for some people it might be more dramatic,

but I just lead a very boring life. I like people to think that I'm a bit more exciting than I am, but truly I'm not. As most of us do actually, probably. Yeah, just from Northampton, not even from any of the exciting places. Oh, stop. I'm sure Northampton has some glamorous parts to it.

You've just a lot of people in Northampton now. Have been to Northampton I can't say I have but when do we have another friend from Northampton isn't Zoe from there is she I think she is so I think Zoe Sturg like Zoella no no no no a friend of ours so I think it produces lovely people so it must be a great place you know the people of Northampton are very nice and there are some lovely little spots of it it's just it's not famous for being glamorous yeah you don't say London Paris New York Northampton do you you don't you don't tend to no no no no Nice no Morocco no Northampton well maybe we could start now that we can't jet off to so many exotic clives. Now, I'm fascinated that you just described yourself kind of absentmindedly even as an online creator. Is that how you see yourself? Is that what you're going to put on the census form this year? Well, we actually put author on the census form because I don't think they

had online creator. As an option, right? Yeah. Author is always easy because people know what a book is so you can't go too wrong with that and also when I was dating I was on tinder and you have to put something there and I was like oh what do I put for this sorry I don't know if you can swear no you can swear swear away just makes a change it's usually me so yeah it's good so I just put author for most things um but if someone really pushed, I would say online creator. Well, you know, my management don't call me that. They call me a media personality. Oh, how knobby is that? But I love it. It's quite funny.

Yeah. So I would like to do TV stuff. And we were edging into that pre-pandemic. But obviously that's on hold at the moment. Yes, as a lot of things are um so as an online creator um we had this conversation with anastasia as well we were talking about how do you decide how much or how little of your actual life and your kind of real feelings you're comfortable with sharing like you've been through a divorce since you've been a vlogger or a blogger how yeah that which is incredibly difficult for anyone how do you decide where when the doors are open and when the doors are closed that's a really good question and I don't know how you make that

choice I just know that I make those choices a lot um and more often than not it's a not to share um because you can always share more in the future, but you can't ever unshare what you've already said. That's a really good way of thinking about it. Yeah. So I play it safe. For example, I never really went into any of the details of the divorce. I just said, we're getting divorced and just kept it really vague because you know I didn't know how I would feel years down the line I also have to bear in mind that my children will see everything that I've ever shared yes it's a bit like in normal life like you don't want to just go shouting your

mouth off all the time because that has a lot of consequences and I'm not the sort of person that wants to deal with those you know those people that are like I'll just say it how it is well I bloody won't I'd rather sit quietly and not say something um I just think my channel is not a drama channel it's not one of those spill the tea channels that's not my brand it's not my vibe um I want to talk about motherhood lifestyle positive living plus size fashion um stuff I find in charity shops like just all the nice things of life that really make me tick and you know divorces and drama and fallout those aren't things that I'm passionate about um also you know that classic phrase don't air your dirty laundry in public that's me I'm never going to be that person but at one point you quit YouTube or at least you quit your main channel didn't you so why was that I did not

I've never quit my channel there's been I changed my channel from Sprinkle of Glitter to Louise Pentland in 2016 and I made a video sort of being like it's the end of an era um felt like when I started I was 25 and I was making just chit chat content like it wasn't even cool content then it was just a webcam talking to like 35 people feeling like it absolutely made it and then as it took off we quickly all realized by we I mean like all the original youtubers like Zoe, Tanya, Jim, Alfie, Marcus, etc. We realized the kind of content that did really well was like very high energy, challenges, fun things, a bit wacky, a bit zany. And that was really popular and it was really successful. But after a while, I started to feel like I don't

want to make this content. I wouldn't go and hang out with my university girlfriends and be like, guys, guys guys let's do the house of makeup on your face challenge ha ha ha you get the marmite for eyeshadow fay lol I just wouldn't do that in my real life and I didn't want to do it on camera so at first I thought well I'll just phase it out but then I had people being like why aren't you doing fun videos anymore uh so I was like right I'm just to have to make a video and just say that's kind of gone now. I am. By the time I made this video, I was 30. I'd got engaged, got married, had a baby, got divorced and was on the dating scene. I was like, I can't keep carrying on the same. I want to grow my channel up. So I made a video saying not going to do that anymore and then started making content I love and more mature content like how

to introduce your boyfriend to your child if you're like a blended family like I am or plus size confidence in sex or how to buy a house like all those sorts of things that are just a bit more age appropriate grown up yeah yeah yeah yeah so now I just feel a lot more relaxed a lot happier I feel like it's just a bit more authentic and audiences are super smart they know when something isn't true they know when they're watching someone put on an act so it's just not worth it no it really isn't worth it now can I lower the tone a bit what I want to hear is please lower the tone I love the tone lower makes a change I'll be right there with you probably lower

got a kindred spirit what's it like being in hello magazine because you have not low I thought you were gonna go really low I'm doing it in stages everyone okay tell us what it's like is it as glamorous as it looks yeah like is it as marvelous as it looks tell us tell us tell us uh it's like. Is it as glamorous as it looks? Yeah, it is. Is it as marvellous as it looks? Tell us, tell us, tell us. It's better than it looks because you only see like seven pictures on two pages, but actually you get a whole camera crew come to your house for the whole day. If you're doing a home shoot or if you're doing an away shoot, you get to go somewhere like incredibly glamorous. There's a stylist. All those clothes, they're not my clothes.

Although some of them are my my clothes although some of them are my clothes now because some of them stayed here lovely but they bring clothes for you and makeup artist and you just have to stand around being incredibly glamorous which just comes so naturally to me um and do you feel like a kind of bona fide a celeb at that point do you just feel like you've made it kim kardashian get out of the way that I'm here now um on the outside on that one day yes but on the inside whilst like someone's doing your makeup and someone's doing your hair at the same time etc etc I'm thinking do they know that I'm just Louise from Northampton that used to be a receptionist I'm certainly not going to tell them do they know when they leave I'm putting the fish fingers on for the kids tea yeah yeah exactly that do they

know as soon as I get in the car I'm putting my hair in a scrunchie and taking my bra off under my jumper you know which is quite a skill and they're all so nice there like I thought that they'd be a bit like a bit stuffy but they're just so nice and just lovely people and I really like as well that hello don't try and trip you up you get some journos that like want to make a story out of something so they twist what you're saying but hello don't which is quite nice. Was what you do ever about celebrity and I don't say that in a judgy way at all I just mean that you're clearly brilliant at performing and entertaining thanks what drives you to do that so initially it was not because you have to remember that in 2010 a lot of people hadn't even heard of the website YouTube and those that had thought it was just like silly clips of

cats on skateboards yeah so what drove me then and drives me still is the community that is built around it. I don't know if you ever look in the comments section of any of my content, but it's a beautiful place. And that is so rare online to have a comment section of people writing well thought out, kind if they're not kind they're at least balanced replies yes you're right because normally they are sewers like the comment section of the daily mail is probably one of the darkest places online yeah absolutely yes and mine's not like that and I I feel like there's a really friendly relationship with them all I talk to a lot of them in the DMs and feel like I know them some of them I have just actually come to know so that for me is the driving force the celebrity side of it has come in time and it's

really weird because if I'm in London and I'm doing like a press day and we've done like Lorraine in the morning and then we're going to do some radio and then we're going to do this and there's a photo shoot, blah, that feels like shit the bed. This feels like really celeb-esque. This is cool and amazing. But then you go home

and I'm doing the school run in leggings and then I'm popping into the supermarket and no one gives a shit and it's all just very normal and nice. So at the moment, it's a really beautiful balance and what do you think made your following be this kind of nice gang did it happen organically did you deliberately carve it out that way have you always banned the mean guys like how has it actually grown up in that way so organ organically, definitely, because it's always

been that way. But I think that you have to pour a lot of love and time into an audience. I think a lot of people think you can just post and ghost. So you just put something up and then go away. But you have to nurture an audience the way you would nurture your children. We know this, Wendy, don't we? I'm sure you know this more than me I'm staying silent so you have to nurture them and you have to treat them really well so I always thank people for their friendly comment before they've even written the comment and that that is instantly instilling like I will be pleased if you write something friendly yeah you're setting the tone aren't you yeah and I don't tend to bite back sometimes I will respond if someone's been a

bit catty I'll respond a little bit but I won't fight fire with fire yeah and we just weed out the bad guys like if you're if someone has criticism or they don't like me and they're sharing that in like a respectful way they can stay like you don't have to like me they don't like me and they're sharing that in like a respectful way they can stay like you don't have to like me you don't have to like the things I do that's okay but if someone's just downright rude they can just go when I worked in an office I would not put up with someone coming to my desk and calling me like all the names under the sun they would be removed from the office and it's the same here like you will be removed if you can't be pleasant but you are welcome to share your opinions respectfully whatever they are yeah it's quite

interesting because it's very similar to the tone that we set on netmums like netmums is known as being the very supportive parenting community yeah unlike some others who will remain nameless and I think we've done it in a very similar way to you and that we just say we're expecting you all to be nice so can you be nice please and if you're not going to be then I'm sure there's plenty of other places you can go and hang out online I think the days of online communities being about the cat fight are really kind of that ship has sailed hasn't it like there there really is places but true but what I but what I mean is it's now appreciated, I think, that there are some nice, friendly, safe spaces online. Absolutely.

In a way, for a while, it was seen as a little bit uncool. And I think, well, people used to tease us and call us, you know, like, met huns because it was all pink and fluffy and everyone was nice to each other. But do you know what? I couldn't be prouder that I'm the editor of a website that's famous for people being nice to each other. Surely that's a great thing. Yeah, it is. And it's not just doing it for you. No, it's for them.

Me asking people to be nice is not just for me, but I want other people to feel safe and welcomed and happy in the comment section. And I get it. Like over the years, I've never been like the top dog. I've never had the top position. I've never had any of that. But also I've never had any drama. I've never had any of that but also I've never had any drama I've never had any no scandals no scandal touch wood touch wood hang on

and you might think it's a bit vanilla but I would far rather be the vanilla than be stressed and miserable and fights and all of that sort of stuff, you know? Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. Right, Annie. Yes, we're going into our last three questions and they're always the same for every guest and it's always fascinating to see what people say. Right, first up, Louise Pentland, how do you want to be remembered? I'd like to be remembered as a nice woman who was fun

and had eclectic taste loved cats loved anything sparkly and loved her children there's a headstone right there isn't it yeah it could even be a glittery headstone yeah lovely much more serious is what's for tea uh well it's friday and i've promised darcy that we're gonna have a pizza night tonight because she's been at her dad's for a couple of days and she said when i come back can we have a pizza night i was like oh yes so we're just ordering in pizza although liam was like we balance it with a salad i was like yeah i'll buy you a salad fill your boots so pizza and salad for us what about you guys

in all honesty it's not planned which is bad bananas because that usually means takeaway well we are deliberately doing a takeaway and i'm excited because it's my turn to choose now final question the favorite imagine you're tucking wendy and i into bed that we're your we're your third and fourth children it would be a bit weird but it would be highly weird um Sing us your family lullaby. What's the song you sing if the girls are struggling to get off to sleep? Well, Anna-Wendy, I love my children, so I don't sing to them because I want them to sleep.

I don't want them to have nightmares. You and I are very similar, Louise. It is the same in this house. Yeah, I'd read you a story. Maybe The Tiger That Came to Tea. similar Louise it is the same in this house yeah I'd read you a story maybe the tiger that came to tea um or through gritted teeth if you'd been staying up on and on I'd say love you lots mummy needs her time now love you love you as I'm edging out the door love you yeah mummy's time now love you mummy time love you love you love you until I just got further and further down the hall towards the fridge and the wine

yeah exactly okay well that allows us thank you very much Louise yes to edge out of this podcast thank you so much thank you so much thank you so much thank you so much thank you very much and thanks to all your community for listening to me waffle on it's appreciated not waffling at all right see you next time sweat snot and dairy crowd