The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep40: Gill Sims on drinking, swearing and being the real you

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Listen as Annie and Wendy chat Vesper Martinis AND dealing with do-gooders with Gill, author of the infamous Why Mummy…  books.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. So, g'day sweaty, snotty, teary people. Welcome to yet another star-studded episode. Wendy, we've had a bit of a week, haven't we?

And you're a bit of a fragile little possum for a big reason. Please, can you share so that A, you can feel the love of all our lovely listeners, but also as serve as a bit of a reminder actually about how seriously we need to take the issue that has arisen for you? Yes. Well, the issue that has arisen for me is I have a very small, very indistinct little mole on my chest that in the last couple of weeks has become raised. And because I'm a bit of a panicker about these things, I went to the doctor and he very quickly said, yes, that looks very dodgy indeed. We're going to cut it out next week. And so a lesson to us all to slap on the sun cream and check your moles people yes because me being obviously the very qualified doctor and dermatologist that i am told wendy not to worry which was obviously quite ridiculous so i apologize for nearly killing you can you explain a bit Because you said it really like appeared really quickly.

Yes, and that's what made me think, oh, I'm not sure this is very cool. It just popped up about two and a half weeks ago. And because it was raised, I thought, I don't like the look of this. And I thought it was an age spot. I've got to that age where they pop up. Yeah, I thought it was just a spot. I didn't think it looked bad at all and so good to have gone and good to have a GP who takes these things seriously and um I shall be having it chopped out next week and how are you feeling uh sometimes

a bit wobbly but okay sometimes I'm like don't silly, it's just a mole, they're going to cut it out. And other times I'm like, I don't want to die of skin cancer. So I'm just drinking rosé and getting through it that way. I often find that that's the best way. And I have a feeling that our guest this week may also live by the rosé as medicine rule. Last time I saw this wondrous woman, we were 12 cocktails down at the Ned in London having a rather high old time and night out. How the devil are you, Jill Sims? I'm very well, thank you. Remember nights out and cocktails? I'm really glad that you're here because I love chatting to you. How's your lockdown been? I think much like everybody else, it quite long quite boring but we're all just quite glad to to still be here after it all aren't we? So well for those of you who aren't aware of

the wonderful Jill, Jill writes hilarious books about why mummy is sloshed basically and I'm going to ask you first of all Liz to Liz? Who the bloody hell is Liz? Who's Liz? God knows. It's my middle name. So, Jill, not Liz, our first question that we ask all of our guests is, has there been any sweat, snot or tears in your house this morning? Now, I know your kids are a bit older, so tell us how old they are and tell us about the sweat and the snot.

We've not had any sweat or snot um or tears this morning the thing with with teenagers is is you actually have a very small window with them in the morning because they they like to lurk in their bed for as as long as possible so so the the time for them to actually squeeze that in is fairly minimal we quite often have blood in the mornings my my children are remarkably adept at injuring themselves on on anything they can get their hands on my son cut his leg on a cushion um we we never quite figured out why or how on a cushion all we could all he would say is there was a sharp bit there was a shot it was a laura ashley cushion as well um so yes that was that was a

particular low point cutting cutting his leg on a cushion my daughter once finger painted the sitting room in her own blood when she was a toddler as well how lovely for you it was delightful it was one of those that the whole room is child-proofed everything is secure i can go to the loo she'll be safe for one minute while i just nip to the loo very quickly. And I came back through and I thought she's got red paint. How has she done this? There's red paint everywhere. And the one thing I hadn't checked in the room was the underneath of the lamp base, which turned out to be a little bit sharp.

And she'd cut her thumb and was delighted with this unending source of finger paint. And we got it everywhere. But no, we didn't have any blood this morning either. We did have a slight row because it was non-uniform day today I I was foolish enough to suggest that maybe given it's the middle of June and quite a hot day a black hoodie black jeans and a large pair of Doc Martin boots maybe wasn't the most sensible thing to wear but apparently that's wrong. Stupid mother can't possibly say that. What do you know Jill? Exactly. Well did you see that thing in the news last week where a head teacher has banned all skirts for all girls because to stop them wearing them too short so he's gone fully the other way

he's like right well if you can't all wear them at a decent length you can't bloody wear them at all he's taken them all away oh fair enough so maybe that's what you should do maybe you should just pillage the wardrobe and ban the things you don't like well the trouble is we do live in scotland so quite often they do need the big hoodies ah so if i took them away they might get hypothermia which is also frowned upon so well my parting shot was get heat stroke and see if I care which probably wasn't terribly maternal oh I like to hear that you come from the same school of parenting as me yeah well you know I tried I tried to suggest you know maybe something a little cooler they wouldn't listen and sometimes they just have to make their own mistakes don't they so indeed

so we hardly ever see actually see you Jill and we very rarely see your kids. Was that a conscious thing on your part or is it just something that's evolved or do you just not like being in pictures? I don't like being in pictures. I hate being in pictures. And the kids didn't want any part of it from from from the get-go um my daughter kindly described it as the mum corner of the internet which was nice of her um yeah yeah quite damning she must be very proud of you now though like your books are bestsellers no not terribly I don't think just because you're mum and nothing mum does yeah yeah I was very excited one day. I was in John Lewis in the furniture department looking for non-sharp cushions, obviously, that I couldn't afford anyway. Maybe that's why my children cut themselves on cheap cushions. So, yeah, I was in John Lewis and a lady said, oh, you're Jill Sims. And it was the first, last, only time anyone's ever recognized me.

And I told her, my daughter, about this in great excitement. And she was just very scathing. I was like, do you not think that's fantastic? And she said, well, if anyone was going to recognize you, it was going to be in the John Lewis cushion department. That's your demographic. I said, what do you mean, darling? And she said, well, middle-aged women who like cushions.

You're very cruel and unkind. She'll find herself as a middle-aged woman who likes cushions one day. They didn't want any part of the public eye, basically. And you don't sound like you like the public bit very much either. Oh, I like the public. I just don't like photographs. We get to see your lovely dog doggy instead that's what we get well they're much more photogenic actually yes yes my older one judgy has he's actually he's

learned to pose now he's he's he's might pick up my phone and he's like yes just take my photo selfie ready a selfie ready I like it is yeah yeah now you exploded into our lives with the hilarious uh Peter and Jane tell us how it all came about how did it ever get started um it was just it was a joke with a friend really it was um originally it wasn't called Peter and Jane it was called Claire told me to do it is she she Claire? She's Claire. She was one who kind of kicked it off. I'd always been terrible for just oversharing on Facebook of everything. I look back through my Facebook memories sometimes, and I have no idea what I'm whispering on about,

but obviously I felt it necessary to tell the world about it. And everyone kept saying, oh, you should start a blog for this. You should start a blog for this. I was like, no, no,'m not I'm not doing that um I think they just wanted me to stop butchering on Facebook and cluttering up their news feeds um but my my friend Claire like I said one day she sent me this link to um to one of those articles you know you're a terrible mother if you don't do this or that or you know if you're not up at five o'clock baking organic courgette muffins for their breakfast yada yada yada um and if you if you should say any bad words in front of them or have a glass of wine at the end of that you know it makes the sort of articles that you have to

sacrifice your entire self to your children and no longer be a human being and she she sent me this and she said you should you should write that blog everyone's telling you to about what it's really like and you try your best and your children thwart you at every opportunity um so I had I had I didn't know half an hour spare that day so I wrote something quickly and put it up and my friends quite liked it so they wanted to share it to other people so I made a Facebook page for it so they could share it to other people and um and nothing happened for a little while. I think I had 70 followers and I was quite proud of that.

That was, you know, I had made it. I was a blogger now. And then it was in the summer, I think in 2016, I had one of those, you know, those really long days you have in the summer holidays and you don't really seem to do anything. And you don't really seem to have a lot to show for it at the end of the day, but you don't stop all day long you know you haven't had a time

to have a cup of tea or sit down or go to the loo in peace or anything you've just had the kids constantly you know wanting something needing something and then your your husband comes home from work and he's obviously been working terribly hard in the office with with a coffee machine and able to go to the loo without something banging on the door and shouting yeah you know I think a particular low point for me was when I thought I was past being disturbed in the loo one of the children came to bang on the door to tell me I'd cut the carrots for dinner into the wrong shape um it's it's one of those things you know you you you say I'm not going to be one of those mothers who sits there telling their children to f off but it goes through your mind oh it's it's muttered under the breath yeah that is the way I think they need to

hear it sometimes not f off but like seriously are you kidding me go away for now darling mommy will be out in one minute so I had one of those days with with not a second of peace and and like I said your husband comes home and he goes oh did you have a nice day off then and you're like a day off a day off it's not really been a day off darling you've probably had more downtime today at the office than I've had here with your darling children um so I wrote I wrote a blog post about that and put it on the Facebook page and I think a lot of people must have been having a similar kind of day um because it resonated with a with a great number of people and I can see why yes once I remember being on the loo just quietly trying to have a little wee in peace and both kids and the dog were all outside the door

the kids were crying and the dog was barking all all for separate reasons. And it was just like... Is this what my life has become? This is it. They wait, I think. They wait to hear that bathroom door close. But if you don't close the bathroom door and leave it ajar, then they think that's an invitation to join you, don't you? So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I normally leave it ajar. And the other day I shut it absentmindedly.

How dare I? Next thing I know, they both barged in and were like, why did you shut the door? What did you do that for? What are you doing in here? Is it a secret? I was like, no. It's just what most people normally do. Well, I won't share the shock that my eldest got

when she wandered in during a time of the month that she may not wanted to have wandered in. That was a shock for her. Well, that's what I learned. That is. Anyway, anyway, anyway anyway anyway anyway what's it like going from normal life on the loo to a best-selling author do you like swan about with slabs and bathing cash and gin every night or are you still being interrupted while you have a wee I'm still interrupted while I have a wee it's it's much like it's always been unfortunately. Where do you write Jill do you have a special little spot or?

It's it's on the sofa with the dogs because the dogs are too needy to be abandoned if I try and sit at a desk or a table they're constantly clambering trying to get on my knee and you can't fit two board terriers on your knee at the same time so then they fight um so I end up yes with them wedged on either side of me on the sofa being being very clingy and and we are your babies mummy never leave us never leave us oh there's a rabbit I'm gonna go chase that no I don't care about you anymore um so yes border terriers are very disloyal but also very needy and can I ask a question about the writing process how long does it take to write a book because it's quite something to go from writing blog posts to writing a book long does it take to write a book because it's quite

something to go from writing blog posts to writing a book isn't it it's a very different ball game probably all in about a year and does it consume your life do you just like shut up everyone mummy's writing bang bang bang bang bang bang bang and a year later you emerge or how does it work? I'm a terrible procrastinator so when I say it takes a year from start to finish they they say right you you've got I don't know six months to get the first draft in and I'm like that's wonderful that's fine yeah that sounds ages yeah then I then I ask about for three months and then I panic and then I shout shut up shut up mummy's writing mummy's writing go away mummy's very busy and important and nobody listens to me um and then I send the

first draft in and everyone in publishing is really really lovely so they come back again that's absolutely wonderful it's marvelous we love it it's perfect you just just a couple of little changes we need you to make like all the words and the plot and then it'll be great um and then they they say right you've got another three months to do that and i'm like great great great and i piss about for another two months and then panic two months 20 days and 15 hours and then you go then hopefully at that stage when i send it back again they they go right okay you need to change a few more things and and then once I've done all that it then goes off to the poor copy editor

who has the job of taking out my about 100 million exclamation marks that I seem incapable of not using um and that's what I actually I've just said it now I actually discovered that I actually seem to have some kind of addiction to the word actually, which I overuse a great deal. And then when he's done his magic, that's kind of it. And by the end, are you just sick of the bloody sight of it? And you're like, right, just publish the damn thing. I'm done now.

You kind of lose sight of the woods for the trees kind of thing a bit. Yeah. By the time the first draft goes in, it's like there's 100,000 words. I don't know if they make sense or if any of them are even words or anything else about it. So sometimes it'd be a bit, you go, actually, that wasn't bad. That was okay. If someone else had written that, I probably think it was quite good. But at the time, you're like, oh, God oh god what have I done this is probably all terrible people are just being kind for the sake of it now the themes of your books to date have been uh

drinking and swearing I know there's a lot more to it but title wise we're talking drinking and swearing and you're known for your love of a tipple i want to know please what is your favorite and does it differ on a mum night out from a mum night in oh yes i do love a lovely cocktail on a night out you know that somebody else has made um i did discover vespa martinis a while ago which um it's neat booze it's it's pure neat booze so it's half that's the way to go half gin half vodka and a dash of ramune and it comes in a very little glass ice cold but it's very very potent and as as my friend as my friend pointed out you know we're ladies of a certain age we've all had children our bladders aren't what they used to be and a little drink a little drink that gets you very drunk as she kept she kept saying it's easy on the bladder that is a

really good tip but you can only have about three of them and then you fall over so now in front of these tenders what are you drinking oh probably a glass of wine and is there a favorite i do like a nice riocco if the weather's colder Or my beloved pink sunshine wine in nice weather is hard to beat. But anything really that's not too sweet. I'm not really that fussy. Do you know the really sad thing for me is since I had my daughter, my second, I used to love red wine and now I can't abide the stuff. Oh, no.

I know. I know. I'd like so just since the day she was born just even the sight of it makes you want to vomit isn't that really strange oh no I know it's terrible you know they don't tell you about all of this when you have children do they they're like children it'll be lovely it'll be fun and they miss out all the all the things that that you you then can't do like drink red wine or I can't drink red wine either interestingly yeah more proof we're twins Annie I know we are twins but that's because I get Larry and fall over and then I'm sick so it's a slightly different

reason yeah slightly different thing there it sounds like you've tried to you've tried to pursue the red wine I've experimented yeah you yeah just for the sake of it I've had a try oh see I'm not allowed to drink Jack Daniels because I get very fighty oh I would I would fight with my own shadow on Jack Daniels which is a shame because I love it but no it's strictly forbidden it's it's not good okay I'll hide it next time we meet Jill I it. Now I have a question to ask you what about Facebook do you get any backlash Jill because Facebook can be a very unkind place and we've had a couple of guests on who were involved in a bit of a scandal a few years ago where lots of blogger mums and writer mums got really pulled to pieces for talking about drinking gin and giving their

kids fish fingers for tea basically and I wondered if there is a bit of a dark side to the stuff you post do you get accused of being a lush and drinking too much or is it just is it a happy place on your Facebook page it's mostly a happy place there There's always someone who thinks it's serious, you know, that I am saying those things to my children, whereas it's more kind of the inner a pair of wide-eyed, innocent, sort of little helpless, precious Muppets and quaffing quantities of gin from breakfast time onwards and are quite po-faced about the whole thing and feel that it's not acceptable. But most of the people realize that it's exaggerated, It's tongue in cheek. It's not a serious account of every word I used to sometimes get messages from people taking a lot of indignation and umbrage with it but they they seem to have stopped now I think by and large I've been quite lucky with it and I mean at first you know there could be there could be hundreds and

hundreds of lovely comments of people going oh yes you know we get it this is funny we understand and there'd be one comment being nasty and then I get really upset about it. But you just kind of have to let it go. I mean, you just have to assume that if somebody's got a reason for wanting to do that, to write that on your post, then, well, that's their problem, really, not yours. So, no, I used to just sort of obsess over it and go, well, why does this person hate me? And now I think I've no idea who this person is. And maybe they're just having a really shit day or maybe they just like try to upset strangers on the Internet. I don't know. So you just have to kind of move on and everything else. But that's hard to do. It's easier said than done to say, right, I'm just not going to listen.

When actually it can be. I think it's something that you just it just comes with practice like I said at first I would be really upset and I'm just like whatever you know okay you do you um when you talk about the un-mumsy mama things was it the thing that started with that Daily Mail article about what terrible words they were yes that was that was particularly unkind I think and also just stupid like it missed the point didn't it totally totally and utterly she was a very humorless woman I think who clearly considered herself an utterly perfect parent um I don't think there is such a thing as

a perfect parent out there to be honest um one of the things that really surprised me when I first started the blog was I would look at some of the other mums in the playground. They would just seem to have it all together so much. They just seemed to be so much better at it all than me. And their children were clean. I mean, my children would go to school clean, obviously, but they never finished the day clean. I mean, my son would come out sometimes and I would be like, have literally been rolling in mud and be like yeah of course but they would have children who'd come out of school still clean it was like how do you how do you do that you know um they never seemed like they were having a bad day or struggling with their children or they they wanted

to shut themselves in the cupboard under the stairs with a bottle of gin and a bar of dairy milk kind of thing and they were the first ones who started coming up to me and going oh my god I love that that you wrote last night about you know feeding them pizza for dinner or whatever you know that's what I do too and I was like but you're you're perfect you're so good at this you've got it all together you're you're the you're the good mums and they were like no we just hide it better so that was actually quite eye-opening that all these people I kind of felt quite intimidated by and that you know I was quite a rubbish mum compared to they had the same kind of problems and issues and everything else that

I did they just have cleaner children um so that was that was quite nice actually to to to see that everybody kind of has that same kind of just oh will you shut up for five minutes and stop butchering like a budgie and just just do you know what fine just live on sausages and get scurvy and and it's just just whatever oh god it sounds so like tea time in my house now as well as the uh the booze though you're also known for loving a bit of a swear. I want to know, do you have a favourite expletive? I'm going quite old school with my swears at the moment.

Bit of a fan of bugger because no one says bugger anymore, do they? Oh, I say bugger. I say bugger too. Oh, good, good, good. Now, what's your go-to swear? Well, I do swear quite a lot. I think it's therapeutic. I think everybody needs to do it.

It's very therapeutic. I actually, somebody sent me a book years ago about they did studies on people where they basically inflicted pain. It basically sounded like they tortured people in quite a mild way, you know. So they inflicted pain on people to see how well they could cope with the pain. And you actually cope better with pain when you're allowed to swear.

So they had one group who was only allowed to say, oh, fiddle sticks, you know, when they attach the electrodes to whatever. And the other group could sort of completely go to town on swearing. And they actually coped much better with the pain. So it is very therapeutic. When an occasion really calls for something a little bit more i must admit i do resort quite a lot to the c word me too c bombing is the it's my go-to as well i have to say i really don't i save it for like once in a decade horror swearing it's not my

everyday one but it is my you know we need something a little bit more here. We need, we need. It has a tax of not more of a punch than your average. It does. It does. A few years ago, we were at a wedding with some friends of my husband's and they are, they are terrible swearers. They're constant, you know, C-bombs all over the place. And one of the girls there was saying, just stop it. I really hate that word.

I stop, just stop saying it. Stop saying it. And they were like, the more she said that, the more they said it really hate that word. I stopped, just stop saying it. Stop saying it. And they were like, the more she said that, the more they said it. And I said, have you, have you ever said it? And she said, no. I said, try it. Oh, no, I couldn't. I couldn't.

I said, try it. Try it. So she said it. I said, how does that feel? She said, oh, that feels good. Oh, that feels really good. So we came down to breakfast the next morning. We were staying in the same hotel

and her husband said do you know what you've done she said she woke me up this morning smacking me around the head going go and get me a coffee you oh yes I love it that's hilarious we created a monster I'm so sorry well I'm I'm um well I am Irish really and so I think it's genetically allowed for me to swear. Because you live in Scotland, do you think you swear more? Oh, probably, yes. Yes. There's nothing quite like it.

Like I said, it is very therapeutic. Well, it's a form of expression. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not actually kidding now. I think culturally, those who, yeah yeah swear more probably do a bit better definitely especially if you've got a let's go attached to you um I know everyone says it's a sign of a poor vocabulary and everything but um I think it shows you can express yourself when you need to I think so I think so my mother-in-law once rolled her eyes at my brother-in-law's swearing

and she sighed she said oh I'm so glad you know my son had the benefit of a university education and my brother-in-law turned around said yes I've got such a fucking big vocabulary now mother oh love it love it love it love it so come on what's next for Jill um the paperback of why mummy's sloshed is coming out in july so that is quite exciting 22nd of july i think so great um perfect for taking on holiday everyone perfect for taking a holiday if we can go on holiday or but yes you just not you're covered under the stairs with gin dairy milk and a copy of your new book that'd be quite nice yeah it's practically a holiday, isn't it? So just peace from the children and it's a holiday. Put a paddling pool in the garden

and give them a cornetto. Away you go. Yeah, and a lovely book like Why Mummy Slosh. There you go. I've done my PR thing. I won't get shouted at now. No, you won't get shouted at by PR. But have you got another one planned?

What's going to be the next topic? Where are we going with this? There's another one planned what's going to be the next topic where are we going with this there's another one in the process um i don't know how much i'm allowed to say about it actually is it drinking or swearing themed or both or or a new or a new vice it's it's got drinking and swearing in it yes always always a drinking and swearing and a lovely new rescue dog as well um but there's a border terrier as well there's always a border terrier so yeah that's that's that's the plan anyway but the immediate thing is is the is the paperback and i'm doubly excited about that because hopefully hopefully hopefully i might get to go to london

for it um oh will you come and see us if you do i'd love to i'd love to this is the thing isn't it nobody you know what's the point of time you say yes and i'm coming down to london now you're like oh well it's not for three weeks so yeah hopefully so jill one of the questions we always ask our guests is how do you want to be remembered by your children this is a good one with stroppy teens just to be remembered at all maybe i know i didn't remember at all i like that um i suspect at the minute they say we'll remember you because you love the dogs more than us um ouch well i keep saying to them i don't love the dogs more than you darlings I love the dogs differently yeah the dog's just a bit more nice

to me than you are well yeah yeah the the dogs the dogs make it clear they love well one of them makes it clear he loves me the other one is just the jury's out I think but um I don't know how they'll remember me probably she she shouted a lot and made us eat vegetables because she was very unreasonable and refused to believe that ketchup was one of our five a day. Speaking of which, what's for tea tonight and who's cooking? That's one of our other regular questions. Oh, God, you know, I have no idea what's for tea tonight. I am so over dinners.

I don't know what it is. Everybody seems to be saying the same thing this last year, just sick of feeding our kids. Just sick of feeding our kids, yeah. Do you know what it is. Everybody seems to be saying the same thing this last year, just sick of feeding our kids. Just sick of feeding our kids, yeah. Do you know what, though, actually? When my mum, when we got to, like, teens, late teens, my mum basically gave up on cooking. We were like, Mum, what's going on?

And she was like, do you know what? I've done it for the last 18 years. I can't do this anymore. Like, I've used up that bit of my brain. It's run dry, and I'm not doing it anymore. I've used up that bit of my brain it's run dry and I'm not doing it anymore yeah no that sounds that sounds about right yeah I mean that's another thing but they don't tell you when you have children is it is they're gonna have dinner every single night and breakfast and lunch and breakfast and lunch yeah it's just just even when it's your birthday

even when you're ill even when it's Christmas day Day, like the canteen is never shut, is it? I know, I know. Oh, the number of times I shouted that, this is not a 24-hour canteen. If you want lunch, you have it at lunchtime. You don't come in an hour afterwards and then say, oh, I'm hungry now. So, yeah, I think possibly something pasta-based tonight. And are you the chef or do they chip in or does your husband help my husband cooks sometimes it's quite stressful when he does okay so maybe not maybe easier if he stays away then

he tries hard he means well but by the time he's come through for about the 20th time and gone have we got any do you know where the whatever is oh what does it mean in this part of the role yeah yeah so actually by that point you're like Christ I wish I just cooked him myself uh-huh and then I spent years and years trying to get him to wipe down the worktops after after he's been cooking or done something in the kitchen and finally after many many years of marriage he wipes down the worktops now which is a major breakthrough yeah but he doesn't wring the cloth out first so there's water splashed everywhere and it's that point it's like but I wipe them like you said and you're like okay that's that's great darling thank you so yeah um so sometimes it is just easier to do it myself

but like I said I might just shove a pizza in the oven because it's friday why the hell not exactly there's tomato on pizza it's it's yeah all the food groups are represented there i believe totally totally now chill the last question and the question we ask all of our guests is and you'll have to cast your mind back to when they were little imagine you're tucking the kids into bed or one of them has woken up in the night and can't sleep and sing us the lullaby that you would sing them oh yeah you're going to think I was really a terrible teller I did not sing to my children um I didn't well I don't either but that's for their own benefit quite frankly well exactly I didn't sing to my children um I didn't well I don't either but that's for their own benefit quite

frankly well exactly I didn't sing to my children for I have the worst singing voice in the world um my husband likes to say it will bring a tear to a grown man's eye but not in a way um when my daughter was about uh 11 months old we just moved house and there was this lovely baby music class everyone said you need to you need to take it it's lovely baby music class I took along with the lovely baby music lady she said now singing to your children is so important and it doesn't matter what your voice is like you know whether you can sing or not it doesn't matter to your child because to your child the sound of you singing to them is the most beautiful sound in the world and like so my daughter's about 11 months old at the time and she already if I sang to her would clap her hands over

her ears no no no no no no no no no no no no I'm pretty sure it's not the most beautiful sound in the world to her um so my my son was similarly inclined he didn't he didn't like my singing either I took him to baby music as well and he would just keep getting up and trying to leave um i think possibly because of my singing um oh chill so yes i think if i had tried to sing them a lullaby in the night it might have given them nightwears and kept them awake for longer so no i did read them lots of stories before bed though that was what was what was your go-to oh I loved green eggs and ham they were oh yeah it's a classic I did like green eggs and ham I

would rattle through it at immense speed I think I had it pretty much off by heart um it was one of those ones sometimes you'd be like right darling cheese a story not that one yeah that one look what about green eggs and ham that's a good one isn't it darling yes you like that one yeah that one look what about green eggs and ham that's a good one isn't it darling yes you like that one don't you know I always used to try and steer them away from the Mr Men books right when you read them out loud right go and do it later okay it really hurts your jaw there's something about them I don't know whether they're longer than a normal children's book or they have more words in them but honestly I used to have really bad jaw ache by the end of it so whenever they picked one up I'd be like oh yeah not that one let's try and go with this one instead there was another brilliant one I loved it was uh a Jill Murphy

one called five minutes peace I know I have a story about five yes and it's my favorite favorite book of all time it's a great one when you've had a really long day isn't it and you still got the story to do before bed and you can then just express everything you're feeling but you're still reading them a lovely story it's so brilliant wait for this my lovely university friend Hannah Jill is her godmother and five minutes piece is written about her family. Oh, how amazing. Isn't that incredible? It's written about her mum, basically. Jill is her godmother because she's her mum's mate.

So it's written about the five of them and her mum. Oh, that's fantastic. So I met Jill and told her I adore this story. And every time I read it now, all I can think of is Hannah and her siblings nagging their mum. But it's actually written for a real- mum who really did need five minutes peace. You can tell it's based on real life because it's so flipping accurate. Oh, I know. I think every mum has had that moment when they need five minutes peace, don't they? Just five minutes. Jill, you're the extension of the other Jill.

I think you're the modern day version of Five Minutes of Peace. With more swearing. Yeah, but that's what was required. That took away a lot of bedtime ags some nights, that book did. Yes, it's very therapeutic. We have a tradition in our household that on my birthday every year, they buy me another book from the series because they know I love it so much. Aww.

Well, I actually had to buy a second copy of it because my son ate the first one oh as they do he ate it he used to eat books um a couple of years ago I was at the British Book Awards and I met Judith Kerr I didn't meet her she was in the queue in the loo and I costed her in the queue in the loo because I was so very over excited to see Judith Kerr I was telling her all about you know lose because I was so very over excited to see Judith Kerr I was telling her all about you know how much I love the tiger who came to tea and how it was my son's favorite as well but then he ate it he ate it but it didn't matter that he ate it because I could say the whole thing off my head would you like me to say it to you no dear no no

I'm fine but I can say it all I promise that Sophie and her mummy were having... She's like, no, no, it's okay. You don't have to say it to me. The night she died, we went out for sausage and chips, just like they do at the end of Tiger King 3 in her honour. Yeah. It was so sad when she died. Somebody messaged me about it. I think I was in Bath at the time, but I just burst into tears in the street.

Yeah, I lost it as well. She was a very important woman she was she was and she was she was so nice to the strange woman in the queue in the loo's commanding to recite I'm delighted to hear that anecdote that I I'm delighted no she was incredibly gracious about it um and didn't say please please go away. You're clearly peculiar. Okay, well, on that note, we will leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us today and being exactly as we would have wanted you to be. Thank you. Oh, thank you for having me and for having Liz.

Yes. Lovely Liz. Well, you and Liz are always welcome whenever you want to go for a Vespa martini. We're there. Oh, yes. I could go a martini now, even though it's only 11.55. Well, the sun is very nearly over the yard.

I'll wait five minutes and that'll be fine. It's always 11.55 somewhere. Exactly. Have a fabulous day, Jill. Thank you. You too. All right. Take care.

Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.