The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep41: Lisa Faulkner on adopting, IVF and step-mumming

Episode Date: July 13, 2021

Listen as Annie and Wendy talk about alternative routes to motherhood with actress turned celeb cook, Lisa Faulkner. From the agonies of ectopic pregnancy to the stress of IVF; that first day as an adoptive mum to her golden rule as a step-mum: NEVER parent your partner's kids.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. All right, sweaty, snotty, teary lot. How are we all today? In case any of you didn't know, I have been in bed for 100 years with COVID.

My children now have COVID. We have been isolating for three weeks and it continues. So I'm sure you're all doing better than I am. To be honest, we're all sweat snot and tear free now, which is good. But Wendy, I hear you have the snot now. I have the snot, but I have a negative lateral flow test and my kids have negative tests, but apologies in advance for any sneezing. But according to you, lateral flows aren't even being believed by Oxford Council anymore, so who knows? Yeah, it looks like everyone's being sent for PCRs instead of relying on their lateral flows. But yeah, I really hope you guys don't have it.

One of them had a negative PCR, right? Yeah, they've both had negative PCRs. Oh, well, there you go. You'll be fine. So we you'll be fine negative it's fine i'm just snotty other illnesses are available that's the thing that we all keep getting it's very true it's very true well without further ado should we introduce this week's guest who's going to talk about much more interesting things than sneezing and snot uh actually at the other end of the scale she's going to talk about delicious food mainly i hope because that's what i normally talk to her about we can't put food and snot uh actually at the other end of the scale she's going to talk about delicious food mainly i hope because that's what i normally talk to her about we can't put food and snot in the same sentence ladies and gents please welcome actress turned everyone's favorite celebrity

cook lisa faulkner how are you well i'm snotty but from hay fever so i joined the club yes we did a corn cook along video with you didn't, didn't we, about a week ago, and you were sneezing then with your hay fever. Oh, my God. It was pretty dreadful then, and it hasn't let up. The hay fever has been really bad this year. But I'm having COVID tests, which you say don't mean a thing, but we're doing them at our house twice a week.

So you've kind of answered this already, but we always ask our guests the first question. Any sweat, snot or tears in your house this morning? So there you go. There's snot from hay fever. Do you all have it or is it just you? It's just me. My daughter gets it a bit. John sometimes gets it, but I'm the one that's had it so badly this year it's weird that it has years where it's worse isn't it I find it really hard to keep track of um so then the next question we always ask is how was your lockdown because obviously this last

year has been a strange one and it has tested families up and down the country and continues to do so how was it for you? Do you know what? Once I sort of got my head around it, it was OK. I sort of am looking back on it now with rose-tinted glasses and going, oh, but we had time to do things and we are actually all together. And now that's really disappearing fast. Yeah, it was such a surreal time that I'm almost looking back on it going

did that really happen um and we decided to work John and I try and work through it by doing little cooking videos and things so we didn't spend a lot of time doing nothing we were really cooking all the way through um and yes it was hard it was hard with the kids I think the kids found it even harder than us really um how old are your kids Lisa mine's 14 nearly 15 and John's is 15 and 17 because I think teens they had it the hardest you know my four-year-old was pretty bloody oblivious yeah the teenage thing to for them not to go out and and actually when they were allowed to walk out with their friends and go around the park I mean I just let her go even when it was sort of dark outside as in you know when it was five o'clock six o'clock and it

was winter um I just said if you want to go just as long as you tell me exactly where you are and she'd be saying yeah I'm here now or I've arrived here and I track her on my phone anyway. But I just thought it was it was easier to just let her get out, even if she was walking for two hours with her mates. It was just she was out. They need friend time, don't they? They really need their friends in a way that we've kind of forgotten about, I think. Yeah. Yeah. As do we. As do we. It's true, so flipping true. How did you cope not seeing your friends?

By FaceTiming them constantly, which annoyed my husband no end. Did you not get sick of it? I was like, I did a couple of weeks of Zoom-tastic, must be took one, and then I was like, I'm so over this, don't want to Zoom anyone ever again. No, believe me, it was only my sister and my two best friends it wasn't and we didn't do we me and my besties would do a like a whatsapp facetime and me and my sister would do like have a coffee

on the facetime but no I'd given up the cocktail zooms pretty early on. It was no fun. Yeah, it's really hard to try and replicate a night at the pub on a computer screen, isn't it? It just doesn't really work. And you just, by the first time, everyone dressed up and I was like, that's great. And then the second time, I was like, I just want to stay in my pyjamas. I don't really want to see anyone.

And you could tell that everyone had got into a bit of a downer. So it was good that we sort of kept in touch but I'm so pleased we're out of it pretty much out of it yeah nearly out of it fingers crossed so what I want to know is was the kitchen yours or his during lockdown because in a house with two mega cooks did you fight it sounds like it was just a bit of a cook-a-thon it was and it was both of ours and we cooked together and it was actually really nice because it kept us sane going what we're going to do tomorrow or what we're going to cook you know and as things opened up it became easier because otherwise we were using stuff that we had in the freezer um but

yeah it was all right it was we sort of cooked together anyway so that wasn't the problem I think more the problem was understanding that we were both at home you know I cook from home and work from home quite a lot whereas John is usually in the studio so it was just trying to find the time where he'd be like what you're on FaceTime again oh my god you're so loud on the phone and I was like yeah well usually you're not here yes the joys of being stuck inside with your heart exactly you realize you are not supposed to spend and I realize Annie this is probably quite poignant as you are in week three of isolation with all of your nearest and dearest but nobody's meant to spend that much time together. Nobody.

No, no, I don't think so. No, it's not healthy for anyone. Definitely isn't healthy for me, telling you that much. Patience. Oh, I have none. When it comes to the kids, Lisa, what's the parenting thing that you and John disagree over the most? We don't parent each other's children.

Oh, that's a nice, clean dividing line yeah I like it it is and it doesn't it's not doesn't always work but I choose to be his kid's friend in inverted commas obviously I look after them and we all look after each other's kids and you know my daughter lives with us but we try very hard because I think we parent very differently um and my daughter has different issues to his children so we sort of parent separately in a way and back each other up and was that a decision that came out of the disaster of trying to parent each other's kids? As in, did you try and think, oh, shit, this is a bad idea? Or did you just say, no, never going to do it?

I just think we've all got, John's kids have their mum and my daughter has her dad. So we've got parents. You know what I mean? And so actually that gives me the chance to be the one that concedes and goes, yeah, of course, go on, you know, you can watch Shelley for another hour. You can have your phone for an extra hour. I would rather have that relationship because life is stressful enough. And there are times where we have to parent each other's kids

and there are times we have to discipline. And sometimes it's brilliant and sometimes it's really tough but so are normal families or normal whatever yes no what I mean is so as a non-blended family like there are days where it's like the Waltons and days where it's like I don't know Nightmare on Elm Street do you know what I mean like that just is life I totally I totally agree but I do think that sometimes it's just easy sometimes it's I think when there's different family dynamics and there are different things that kids need from you and, you know, there's just a lot of politics,

emotional politics that you have to wade through. So I try and keep out of it as much as possible. And so does John with me. I think that's very sane and very very sensible I think as well that one of the things you don't realize till you're kind of in it is that every kid needs a different type of parent do you know what I mean like you can only even if you had 10 kids or with the same parents they would all need a slightly different parenting style because they all are so unique and have such unique relationships with you don't

they yeah absolutely and you know my daughter we've got our own we are our little pair and you know I do parent her differently so and I think that can be hard for John you know it's not it's not easy so here's the question do you as a couple struggle with how the other one parents do you sit there going do you just think I'm going to bite my tongue I'm going to bite my tongue how do you cope with looking at the way he's doing it thinking oh I wouldn't do it like that uh the thing is that I think what we do is we're very patient with each other and I bite my tongue and he bites his tongue quite a lot the other thing though is are you pleasantly surprised sometimes and do you think god I wouldn't have done it that way but wow that's amazing that's had an amazing outcome

i think that sometimes i think you will learn from i'm always learning yeah how to to parent my daughter how to parent how to how to navigate a human yeah so i think that as long as you're open to it there are so many things i learned from him, so many things he learns from me. But compromise and being kind and taking a breath and maybe going upstairs and having 10 minutes out before I say stuff, it works better. I realize that, you know, that counting to 10, 10 doesn't work for me. But going upstairs and running a bath. I remove myself from the room because otherwise my mouth will just go. Yeah. And I think sometimes you just go and have a bath and work out what's actually important and what's not important and then go.

It's surprising what you don't care about half an hour later, isn't it? Exactly. Exactly. I surprise myself all the time. Yeah. You're both much, much, much better humans than me. Now, I would like to know, please, we would like, please, a short summary of your Becoming a Mum story. Because we know you've written a book about it, meant to be, but for anyone who hasn't read it, can you give us the kind of,

in a nutshell version? And I know it was complicated and complex. It was complicated. complex like it is like it is for so many of our netmums users yeah I mean to put it in a nutshell tried to have babies started off thinking it was fun to try um and got pregnant and then had an ectopic which is horrible which was horrific and I just didn't understand because it was called an ectopic which is horrible which was horrific and I just didn't understand because it was called an ectopic pregnancy I didn't realize that it meant that it wasn't a viable pregnancy and it was going to burst which it did in the wrong tube or whatever so basically I was

left with a big operation and one tube and yeah it was pretty awful and then we went through IVF and we had three and a half goes of IVF and all failed. And it was, it was again, really emotionally hard. And then we decided, okay, let's look at other ways to parenthood. And we looked through everything and decided that adoption was for us. This is me and my ex-husband, Billy's dad. And we then decided to adopt and we looked through the whole adoption, how that works. And we ended up adopting through the UK.

And yeah, it was a really hard journey. We did a sort of concurrent planning fostering to adopt, but we've got our little girl. And 14 years later, we have our amazing daughter. We both parent together still. Great. And we are very good friends. And we made that decision from the start.

That must be hard, though. Is it hard? Actually, it's not. It's much easier as we've got older. It's much easier. You know, we've not been together for a long time now. But we always said from the very beginning, Bill's is our priority. We are going to stay friends for this and friends for Billy and have, it's not hard actually, because I

just always have her in mind. And I think having an adopted child and knowing the trauma that comes with them, and it's hard that you parent, as I was saying earlier, sort of like homework, you do your homework as an adoptive parent. And yes, there is all the everyday teenage parenting or baby parenting all the way through. But there is an extra on top, there is a parenting plus that goes with it. And you know I do we do a lot of reading a lot of homework a lot of workshops a lot of talking a lot of therapy but that means that we me and Billy's dad have a great relationship and are both always there for her so yeah we that's how we became parents really but how long a journey was it from Let's Have a Baby to Billy's here?

Oh, God. Yeah, it was a good three years, three and a half years, maybe a bit longer. A long time. It's a long time. Yeah. How old was she when you finally adopted her? She was two. So how was it that first day?

Because obviously the first day is a really good bit of your book actually you know the first day where you actually have her like she's not you're not adopted yet but I love that yeah um can you tell the listeners because that for me was that bit where unlike being pregnant and having a baby you kind of one day you've just got a baby yeah was it yeah it was totally mind-blowing it was mind-blowing it was incredible to wake up with a child in the house with the, you know, I mean, literally going in and out of the room every five minutes. You know, you're so worried that they're not going to sleep or that what's going to happen to them. And I'm very lucky. My sister is my absolute amazing best mate and has had three children.

And I have been birth partner to three of them and looked after the the two youngest I mean I've looked after all of them but the two youngest two oldest girls were my joy throughout so basically I'd looked after them and had them in the house so I it wasn't completely alien to me I changed nappies I'd watched Teletubbies I'd done nappies, I'd watch Teletubbies, I'd done everything, do you know what I mean, literally everything with them. So getting Billy wasn't too much of a shock apart from the fact that I didn't know what she liked or what she didn't like. I didn't know the signs. Well, it's a getting to know you process, isn't it? And in a way, that's very similar to having a newborn.

Like you don't know what kind of newborn you're going to get. You don't know what the different cries mean or what. No, exactly. And so it is very, very similar to having a newborn like you don't know what kind of newborn you're gonna get you don't know what the different cries mean or what no exactly and so it is very very similar apart from that you have a lot of red tape you have a lot of social workers you have people checking up on you constantly was that horrible the checking up no because or did it feel supportive I don't know if it's really supportive I think it's that you feel that there's a lot of pressure that you're trying to make sure that the house is clean and the baby is clean and everything's perfect because you don't want to and you don't swear when they come around yeah no and you're like oh my gosh you know I just want everything to be okay um which is

added pressure but I totally get it and actually unless you're willing to go through all of that then you there's no point in adopting you know it's not it's it is a different path to parenthood and it is parenting and it is amazing but it's something that you have to really do your homework on before you do it it's not like you know if anyone goes oh we're not gonna we decided we're not gonna have a baby we're not gonna we've done IVF we're gonna adopt it's not it's not the easy option no it's not um but it's totally Billie is my absolute joy I love her so unconditionally and I am such a tiger for her and her biggest champion and literally anyone tries to even John bless him you know if he tries to if he says something it's like nope you go through

yeah exactly I love that one of the things that fascinated me about your parenthood journey was the long-lasting effects you say clomid had on you can you tell us a bit about that yeah I think what I vaguely remember I just turned literally within three hours I think of taking it I was a different person and definitely the next day I was just actually I feel it now the hormones my hormones are obviously up and down now I'm 49 years old and I suddenly go oh my god this rage that I can't that it was the same but it was like four seasons in one day it's like one minute I was lovely and happy and full of it hope and then the next minute I was crying on the bathroom floor and then the next minute I was angry and shouting and then the next minute I was like come on

we need to have sex you know it was just that you just didn't know what you were going to get so I think it's important that we talk about it though because yeah some women do it for years they do it's just horrific and I well the reason I think it's important to talk about is I see a lot of people chatting about it in the netmums forum obviously trying to conceive and they're like oh just go and get some clomid I'll be fine learn it's like okay yes it's great that it's there is this thing to help people try and get pregnant but anything hormone related comes with a lot of extra baggage and you need to be prepared for what's going to hit you with like a sled tamer I think I agree I think as well

we put such pressure on ourselves you get to a certain age and everyone around you is having babies and when it's not quite working for you it suddenly feels like you're on that wheel and you need to do it and you put so much pressure on yourself and the clomid makes you bonkers sometimes it heightens it really heightens everything but all hormone treatment does and i think you know going through ivf people think oh i'm just gonna go have ivf it's not just ivf it's it's really really a big process and i think that oh, I'm just going to go have IVF. It's not just IVF. It's really, really a big process. And I think that, you know, as women, we have to be there to support other women. And sometimes that means people are very vocal and go, well, then you can just do this or let's try that. Or have you tried? People very much want to fix things for you, don't they?

And actually what you need is someone just to sit there and listen to whatever the hell is going on I think that's my biggest thing I've learned in the last 14 years is that you can't fix things that sometimes you just have to sit in the mud with somebody and I think that that comes with sitting in the mud with your friends if they're trying to conceive holding their hand and talking about it but going okay so what do you think or do you think that what do you think you might do next instead of okay well you must try this yeah and i think that's all our you know i think as a strong powerful women that's our go-to you go okay so let's help let's what's do what's next but sometimes it isn't about saying what's next it's just about sitting there for a

bit and giving yourself time to move to the next level whatever it is i think that's really valuable in terms of parenting your kids as well like we're not going to be great parents if we just try and sort everything out for them we need to just be there while they do their thing right it's so hard to do though, isn't it? Oh, it's so flipping hard. It is. It's taken a lot of therapy and homework, I call it, which is such a weird word. But I mean, to go, do you know what? She doesn't need everything fixing. I can't fix it. But what I can do is sit with her.

And sometimes she doesn't want me to sit with her, but she knows that I'm sitting there with her. Yeah. And sometimes it's about going yeah that must be really hard instead of okay well what I'm going to do is we're going to do this this and this because that may not work with your child or as well parent or and the tendency is so there I get it to say oh come on it's not that bad come on come on don't cry it's okay it's okay when actually to them whatever it is doesn't feel okay does it yeah yeah absolutely but also putting yourself back and trying to remember what it felt like when

you were them and it wasn't okay rather than putting your adult perception of oh but it's okay it's fine it's you know when you're 14 what matters is very different to when you're 42 or 49 it's like trying to put yourself back into those teenage years where it really does matter if you can't FaceTime your friends yeah because mummy says you can't or whatever it might be yeah totally now another aspect of your parenting journey that I find interesting and I know is again something a lot of netmums encounters you lost your mum when you were quite young didn't you I did um yeah it's hard to parent without that parent beside you isn't it I think it really brings it home it's that somebody said

the other day well that was a trigger for my husband and I thought yeah that word it's a really good word that trigger word because some things trigger it and when you first have a child and you don't have a parent your mum there um especially for me it was really difficult and I I think it always comes up she's my mum died when I was 16 I only had her for 16 years I I'm now 49. 16 is a baby, you realise now, don't you? A complete baby. And I just think how strong she was and what an amazing woman she was. I still talk about her, feel her around me. She shapes my life.

She defines me. So I think losing your mum, whatever age, it's one of those things that we don't get over especially having having children so I talk about her a lot even though she hasn't been around for so long but I still talk about her like she is around and you know Billy knows all about her and yeah I think that's the only way through it really it doesn't ever somebody said does it get easier and it does get easier grief you learn to live with it um but it just changes doesn't it and I think that's my comfort is that I feel that she's probably around me even though I can't see

her and that's in memories and things I use and energies and all of that do I mean even I use her cooking utensils and and you know loads of her things are around me which just makes me feel like she's still around do you think parenting without a mum beside you makes you rely on your friends even more it definitely um my mum had a really amazing group of friends who were all my godmothers. And actually, you know, they still come for dinner. And, you know, I've sort of recreated that with my two best friends and my sister. And it really is, without them, I don't know what I would do. That's amazing. I think one of the untold stories of parenthood is, I know it's this naff cliche, it takes a village a village but god you need your friends

alongside you when you're doing it don't you I agree and even if it's to talk to them about how you're parenting and you'll realize as you go through it that you parent maybe differently or you have to parent differently for different reasons to your friends but it's really nice to get their opinions and their takes on stuff and also just to be able to blur blurt it out and not be judged do i mean sometimes you just need to go walk and shout and and they just don't judge you they just love you wendy and i were lucky enough to have our first babies hours apart oh my god and we we are the people that we sometimes the phone call will go like this I just need to tell you that this happened and you go exactly then you go class pre-stage bye

the other one doesn't need to speak no but also as my daughter gets older what I value almost as much from my group of friends in where she's growing up is that sometimes she'll go to them in a way so as she becomes a teenager I think sometimes you just don't want to speak to your mum however close to your mum you are and I feel like she's got like five other mums who all do things differently who she can go to and get advice or just slag me off or whatever it is that she wants to do I think it's not female friendships it's like having lots of other mums I think I agree and actually it's really funny because we were watching the football last night and my best friend was sitting with my daughter and she said something like the usual like some sort of snipey comment at me. And Ange was the first one to go, oh, no, hang on a minute.

And she did it in such a way that Billy was then like, yeah, sorry, Mama. And it's funny, isn't it? Their relationships with their aunties. They're all so valuable. They're all so valuable. Now, can I just say that you are getting me through the summer with your recipes that are on the Ocado website. Yes, all about the fast family recipes because that is what I need. I want to eat nice things,

but I don't want to spend loads of time doing it. So thank you. Do you know what? I love working with them, with Ocado. It's just been brilliant. And I love making up the recipes because it has to be for me stuff that's quick and stuff that's you know I don't want to be spending too long doing it and actually things plans change so quickly yes I don't know about you but my kids are like the teenagers are one minute they're there then the next minute they're oh sorry I'm not I'm going to go out on Friday night yeah oh they're like by the way there's six friends coming over tonight yeah and so I think we just sort of have stuff that's in the freezer or stuff that you can just do very quickly.

So I've been doing a lot of that. And we've been doing John and Lisa's Kitchen. And we're about to film. I'm filming some Lorraine recipes over the summer. And then in September, John and I go back to do 10 episodes of John and Lisa's Kitchen. Do you like the work you do together more than the work you don't do together? I love both. I would hate to just...

Oh, politically correct. He's not listening. He's not listening, you can say. It's in the kitchen. But I would hate to do... I would hate to just work with him. I would feel like I'm not just'm not just part I've been on my journey I'm an actress which I love and when I get an acting job I absolutely love that I love

cooking on my own and I love my cooking but I never expected to enjoy working with John like we do and it's it's actually a surprise in the fact that we've done a cooking show that is we forget that we're on telly we just cook and we have a lovely time but you clearly enjoy it I was going to say I think it's the relaxed thing that makes it work yeah because I and I but I think you do that whoever you're with because when I was doing the corn cook along stuff with you I just felt like I was having a glass of wine with my mate watching her cook the kids too do you know what I mean like yeah I think your style is what a lot of people can relate to well I think it's just cooking is fun and I like I like meeting people I like cooking along with anybody do you know I mean it just happens that my husband is is a top chef

just happens to be just happens to be yeah I I think people really interest loads anyone I meet and anyone I chat to on my Instagram I just think everyone's got such amazing lives and stories and you know we're all just human trying our best you know and I think that that's what I really like about meeting people is that you go oh oh, you know what, we're all in this together, really. And that's what came out of lockdown was that we're all in it together. One of the questions that we always ask, and I'm really interested to see how you're going to answer this one, is how do you want to be remembered by your daughter and by your stepdaughter? Stepkids. Stepkids.

So, yeah. John's actually got two more but they're much older they're in their 20s um they're lovely um i hope well i know that my stepdaughter would remember me always as a pushover they call me pushover lisa pol um so that would be that they would remind remember because i just let them go and do pretty much what they want um and then my daughter I hope she oh my god that's hard I hope she remembers me as love and warmth that's really nice yeah and a hand to hold if you had to define your mum yeah what would you say about your mom completely the opposite oh really no she was she was completely her her showing of love was through food her she was very much she was so glamorous and didn't and she you would know whether she was in a mood with

you whether when she walked through the door like if she closed the door if the door slammed I'd know she was in a bad mood if it was like hi she hi, she was in a good mood. So I think it was just, it's very funny. I remember her as a whirlwind, my mum, and as love and fun and vibrant. She was just loud and her, she was very confident and probably not self-assured but she came across as that but she wasn't like a mumsy cuddler are you a mumsy cuddler i i yeah to the point that my daughter's like maria don't want to hug today please get off me okay well that's fascinating that you're quite different from your mum now from the uh kind of the deep to the very very shallow to the fact that yeah it's more like a puddle what's for tea tonight and who's cooking i'm cooking i'm making

uh i'm actually having to test recipes that i'm filming tomorrow god your kids are lucky oh they don't think they are uh even though that they ask for whatever they ask for they get but we're having um chicken that is marinated in thai curry and coconut oh that's so nice and a lovely smashed cucumber salad so that's what i'm doing oh um and who normally cooks uh both of us depends on who like john will go do you want me to do it tonight or i'll go please will you make her something and he'll make it what's his go-to what's yeah yeah what's the best thing that he makes on a Tuesday night please make that oh he makes the most amazing curries so like Thai curry oh my god fish how are you not a hunter seriously I don't know

I luckily it's my genes I think because the food that he makes is incredible. And, you know, if you ask him to make a steak, it's perfect. And it's like, just does it. He's amazing. He is amazing. Whereas I'll make pasta or roast dinner. Both of those things are fine as well, I hasten to add. Right, last question, Wendy, you can ask it this time.

Lisa Faulkner please will you imagine now you have to cast your mind back to when billy was younger yeah okay that you're tucking her into bed and sing us your lullaby oh you're not gonna make me do that we know that every family has a song that they sing when their little one can't sleep. And we're not just asking it of you. We ask it of every guest on every episode. Everyone has to do it. And you'll be amazed she's refused. We've only had two refusals, haven't we?

And they were both singers. Interestingly, they were both chart-topping singers. That's hilarious. The song that I have to sing her is ali bali ali bali bee sitting on your mummy's knee waiting for a wee bobby to buy some colters candy i have never heard that song it's like and i sit and i go do you want Ali Bali and she goes yeah so I'd have to sing that while even at 14. Where's that song from I've never heard it I've never heard it. It was some song I learned at school and I just did it once to my nieces when they were babies and um yeah and it's you can

imagine that she she is treated to like an amazing singer because I really am not you're better than us yeah that was that was tuneful ours isn't but the really depressing thing is my youngest at the moment do you remember the song cauliflower's fluffy yeah the harvest yeah yeah yeah yeah she's heard this song I'm not singing it but she's heard this song somewhere so every night at the moment cauliflower's fluffy and cabbage is green cabbage is green yeah lovely strawberry's sweeter than any i've seen and she demands this and it's like oh my god she's gonna be scarred for life it's so cute i have midnight chats now instead of lullabies we literally i have a counseling session before we go to sleep but i think everyone needs a counseling session before they go to sleep it's a great habit to get into. Yeah, it's lovely.

Oh, Lisa, thank you so much for being with us today and for being so open and, like, full of insight into a different kind of parenting journey. I think you're the first adoptive parent we've had on, so I think that's fascinating. Well, thank you for having me. It was lovely to talk to you.