The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep5: Nadiya Hussain reveals her plans to adopt a fourth child

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

Since winning Bake Off, Nadiya Hussain, has become a national treasure and role model for mums wanting to tackle fresh challenges. Here she talks about her battles with anxiety, her plans for growing her family, how she made the decision to go public with her story of sexual abuse as a child, and why her family’s motto is ‘elbows out!’. Get your tissues ready for her answer to the ‘How do you want to be remembered’ question – THIS is why the world has fallen in love with Nadiya Hussain.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollage. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. So with this week's guest, I more or less humiliated myself. I have been a fan for a long time and I made that very clear in the beginning and then at the end asked if I

could move in with her. Wendy have I shamed you? Yes you have I can't deny you were a little bit weird but having said that having just spent the last hour talking to Nadia Hussain I think I might quite like her to adopt me too she was so lovely. Yeah but she's not just lovely is she she's you don't meet I don't meet people like that every day honestly I want to go and listen back to everything she said right away she was just brilliant yeah it's kind of like a lessons to live by as much as it is just a bit of an entertaining chat about people and their kids this one don't you think yep elbows out everybody elbows out sweat snot and teary types. I am sweating today because I really want this week's guest to adopt me.

And if she doesn't feel the same way in an hour's time, I'm going to be heartbroken. Wendy, you need to help her get me to love me, OK? No, not OK. It's over to you. All over to you. I'm sorry. It's all down to me. Oh, well, thanks, mate.

OK, well, let's give this our best shot. Welcome to the Sweat, Snot and Tears podcast Nadia Hussain. Hello, hi guys. Hey how are you doing today? Just been one of those mornings, I don't know. Yeah I'm lucky that I even got here on time. Like the fact that I'm... Tell us why, what's happened? Well we've just, like the kids have been really sick. my kids I just always look at the thing why are you always sick what am I doing wrong I pump them full of vitamins lots of vegetables you know fresh air I do all of that like if I could put them under a uv light I would and I can't I just don't I don't get it so sometimes you feel really I feel really isolated

when my kids are sick because I think is it just me or are my kids always sick but actually when my kids come back from school they're like mum you know so and so's off or there's six kids off school today or eight kids also and at the moment of course the schools are being very very cautious over the past four weeks that they've been in school I've had one off every week so we haven't actually yeah so we've had one off every week and the thing is if they get one little sniffle or the odd cough or a bit of a you know the school always rings and says I'm not feeling great I think you should come and pick them up so where the school are being over cautious and I'm at home it's like okay well we've just had him at home a lot um it's such a hard balance to strike at the moment

isn't it between saying come on you're fine go and then also not wanting to alarm other people or alarm the teachers or it's it's difficult isn't it yeah it is it's just that little kind of my and my boys have asthma so they are prone to getting a a cough when they're when they're sick the first thing that happens to them is they get this persistent cough and i'm like no no no you can do anything but don't cough anything yeah hold it hold it in and and my son said mom it's not like holding a fart in you can't hold it I was like he has a point they say they they're wise words wise words from my teenagers and it's true he said like literally he goes I'm scared to cough but when I hear other kids cough I look at them and I was like don't look at people they're allowed to cough so um yeah it's true. He said, like, literally, he goes, I'm scared to cough. But when I hear other kids cough, I look at them. And I was like, don't look at people. They're allowed to cough. So, yeah, it's been really, really tricky. So every morning has been a lot of snot and like I don't know about

you guys but do you find yourself like retraining your children how to use the tissue properly every time they get every time they have a cold I'm like guys so this is how and like my kids always laugh at me they go oh god here's her tissue masterclass all over again I do like there's been a lot of snot. There have been a lot of tears and there's been a lot of sweat on my behalf for sure because it's been a lot of running around. Okay so what's a normal morning like in the Hussein household? We've heard what a bad day is like. What would a normal day be like? Is it calm and serene or is it quick get your shoes on we've got to get out of the door those are the days the days where it's kind of get this do this get it's a day when I wake up last it's always manic when I wake up last and maybe that's just giving myself way more credit than I'm due but when I wake up

I wake up and I try and journal every morning so I give myself five minutes to wake up that's so healthy that's so mindful I love that it's only something I've started doing very recently because I've just found myself doing exactly what I don't want to do which is waking up frantic because there's nothing worse than children going to school frantic because you can sense it like it takes them a little bit it takes them longer I always ask them like if we have a frantic morning how do you feel and they just come home the way they left they'd never leave that kind of frantic state so I find also you hate yourself all day I kicked myself off on a day like that

I've sometimes gone into work and cried to Wendy and said I gave them a really rubbish morning I feel terrible you're so much nicer than me I'm just like would you stop moaning and go to school I'm feeling really bad well it's nice to know that we're not alone in that kind of that sadness because sometimes I feel like the worst mother in the world because sometimes I'll be like pointing my finger and having a go and saying you need to do and actually it's for me trying to like you know if we do it and and allow them enough room to learn and give them the lessons you know eventually proactiveness may come into play. Well, I read a really interesting article on this one. Someone wrote a piece in the New York Times

about it. They decided that mornings were becoming so fraught, this mum decided she was going to step back completely and let the dad do it. And she was like, and I was waiting for it to be a disaster and him to be shouting and him to understand the stress that I've been in for the last however many years. And instead, he took a completely different approach. And he said, kids, we're going to be shouting and him to understand the stress that I've been in for the last however many years and instead he took a completely different approach and he said kids we're going to be leaving the house at 20 past eight I'll meet you by the door and they did it does that irritate you a little bit that just irritates me just a little bit well yeah she wanted to kill him but then she was like you know what what I wasn't doing with that was giving them enough credit to just get themselves together and get to the door

and he said they were a little bit late for him but he didn't hassle them he just stood there opened the door was like okay we need to go now and they scrambled and they did it well that just annoys me but I where's your hairband I told you you need your shoes you know I think my kids would go out the door naked if I did that try it it. Try it tomorrow and then let's see what happens. Okay. Well, after this morning's pigtail-related drama, I will report back. Pigtails were wonky.

All my fault. Usual. You're a terrible mother, Wendy. I am. Now, forget about mornings with kids, Nadia. What is your breakfast in your house? Since the boys have become, you know, when they were younger,

it was really, there was a system where we knew what we were having for breakfast and everybody was having the same thing. And what's really lovely now is that as they've become older, like sometimes my son will wake up and say, mum, can I just have a green juice? And he'll whack a load of spinach and kale and bits and bobs in the Nutribullet and he'll just make himself a green smoothie, which I absolutely, like, yeah, that's fine if that's what you want to have. And it's quite nice because he'll wake up, my eldest will usually wake up and he'll make a green juice and the tail end of the bits that he doesn't want, he then gives to his little brother who doesn't like green juices, but he says he should have it because it's good for him. But mostly it's really simple. We are, often it's

in the summer, it's toast. And as it gets colder, it's porridge. Yes. often it's in the summer it's toast and as it gets colder it's porridge yes I love a bit of porridge but you've got to tell us about your crumpet fixation come on yes I do have I have an unhealthy relationship with crumpets that's why I don't ever buy them because it's just when I do I don't really leave any for anyone else and my daughter my daughter always comes home and says, I thought there were crumpets in the cupboard. And then I was like, ah, that was me. But yes, I cannot understand, like for me, crumpets is, you know, when you melt, when you put the butter on it and then it seeps all the way through, because it's basically a sponge, but a leaky one,

and then it just goes all the way through. And so what I have is I have two crumpets, but I always have a backup third one underneath the other two so that if there is any drippy meltage, it catches it. And then I re-butter that one. And then I eat that because nobody needs to waste butter. That's just not acceptable. There's no need for that. But I like to toast them till they're really crunchy

and then leave them to go completely cold. To go completely cold, but then the butter, oh, it won't be melty butter. Yes, then the butter doesn't melt. Then you get a thick layer of butter on top. And then I do one with marmite and then I do one with jam. Okay, you've revolutionized this. I'm going to have to go and try this later. It's never occurred to me to do anything but melty butter.

No, no, unmelt it. Don't do the melty thing it's really nice it's really I'm not sure this oh we'll try it and we'll report back so report back we will report back now tell us how old are your kids now and what phases are they in like let us picture the scene in the Hussein household so I've got two boys and the eldest is 14 and then my second son is 13 and my little girl just turned 10 right so we're all in we're in double digits so I had a good cry my little girl was 10 this weekend and um I did have I dropped her off to her uh dance class and her acting class and then I dropped her off and I had a little cry in the car I tried not to cry

in front of her and she did she kept saying you're not gonna cry are you mommy almost willing it on and I was like no no I'm not gonna cry I'm fine and then I sat in the car and had a little blubber I just there was something about them becoming the last one becoming double digits she's lost all her baby teeth so she's this little person with really big teeth and it's really cute um but my eldest is very much like any teenager he gets grumpy he huffs and puffs a little bit but oh my goodness completely and utterly mushy like he loves a good hug and he loves that's nice to hear and loves a good chat and it's like mommy do you want a cup of tea which usually means he wants a cup of tea so he'll make himself one and then he'll make me one. In so many ways, he's unlike any 14 year old

in that he is so sentimental and really sweet and really kind of conscientious. And he thinks about everything. He's a big thinker, but equally, he's also really grumpy and huffs and puffs and gives me like grunts for answers um and then we've got the 13 year old who is like the most sprightly human being you've ever met does not like anything where it requires him to stand in front of anyone who hates being the center of attention although he was the same child from the age of about two to about 10 wore bow ties and shirts to every play date oh that's so cute oh my goodness that's amazing I love that with his little braces and his trousers and his little half shirts and his and his little bow tie and he he

turned 10 and he just said I mommy I don't like bow ties anymore and that broke my heart also but he's not yet hit that hideous gr grumpy stage yet. He's really lively. He's really kind of, he's really funny. He's really, really funny. So he keeps us laughing. And my little girl, she's into musical theatre. Wow. Yeah, so she was in Les Mis a few years ago. So yeah, about a year and a half ago,

she was in Les Mis for six weeks. So she's got an amazing, amazing singing voice. But there's this idea that children who are in musical theatre might be a little bit sassy. Well, that definitely rings true with her because she is. But her life is musical theatre. She sings through life, like every aspect of her life. If she's ironing, then she will be singing.

If she's... Hang on, hang on, back up. Your 10-year-old is ironing? I know, I'm impressed by this, Nadia. Tell us your secret. I want mine to be doing this. Oh, it's called making demands. I just say you have to do it

and they don't really argue. Well, yeah, no, my, yeah, they do. We have, Friday night is ironing night. So Friday night, they do all the ironing. So they put it in piles and everybody does their own ironing. And I don't know what, she loves ironing. So they put it in piles and everybody does their own ironing. And I don't know what, she loves ironing. So she'll always do mine as well, which I don't mind.

And I've had to get over that a little bit that they don't iron the way I do, but at least they do it. And you have to kind of almost let your standards slip just a little bit to allow them. You've got to let it go. Like mine wouldn't know where the iron is. They wouldn't know what it is. They wouldn't know what to do with it if they found it. And you're worrying that yours aren't doing it to the right standard.

It's fabulous. At what age would you say it's good to start ironing? Mine are eight and six, Nadia. Do you think it's time? I couldn't give you a right or wrong answer because I suppose it's each individual child. Yeah, whether they're ready. Yeah, I have to say my little boy's been ironing since he was six that's great and he's 14 now very confident i do think there's something very important about upskilling your kids so that they can look after

themselves one day you don't want them to be the annoying kid in the house show at university who can't boil an egg or iron their own jeans i suppose the hope is one day that when they go off and have their own lives, that they will bring, you know, I just want them to just be ready for the world, I suppose. And I think when you can do things like simple things like ironing, that feel very grown up, I think it gives you this independence that nothing else really can. And I don't find it because I suppose because we grew up and we had to just get on with everything but that being said you know I was raised in a family where the girls were taught to cook and clean and tidy up but we had to cook and clean and tidy up after our brothers so they never learned how to do all of those things yeah I'm that wouldn't work for me no no so the skill

has to be kind of all around everybody has to know how to do it and that you know on a Sunday they spend three hours dusting the house and they hate it they absolutely hate it but they how to do it. And that, you know, on a Sunday, they spend three hours dusting the house and they hate it. They absolutely hate it, but they have to do it because there is no, that's not what Sundays are not for. You can have a moment to rest on a Sunday, but there's three hours of house cleaning

that needs doing. And they will do everything. Radiators, skirting boards, tops of doors, the lot, you name it. They hate it. They absolutely hate it. We have a playlist. We listen to the playlist over and over again,

but they do it. They have to hoover, they have to dust, and they have to clean the bathrooms and toilets, the lot, mopping, everything, all of it. They have to do it. So no choice, no choice. They are nature's workers. That's what I say.

I made them. I like that. Yeah, and they're nature's little workers. Yeah, and choice is overrated anyway. We always ask our guests to talk about their births. So which of yours was the most memorable? We're taking you back from the teenage years to the squidgy newborns. Who was the most memorable birth and why?

I mean, I suppose he didn't put me off because it was a horrendous birth. Oh, no. But my eldest, perhaps. But I think the first is always probably the most memorable I suppose in some ways but they were all memorable for different reasons um but my first I think because I had a hideously long I was in active labor for 72 hours oh my goodness that's tremendous and uh I remember thinking I remember after having him she the midwife said, we'll see you next year. And I was like, no, you won't.

And there was like exactly a year and six days to the day I was back in that same hospital. Oh, wow. She knew. She just knew. She said, you can't have a baby like him and not have another one. And he was just beautiful and just squidgy and gorgeous. But it was a horrific labor. I had fourth degree tears. It was just beautiful and just squidgy and gorgeous. But it was a horrific labor. I had fourth degree tears. It was just hideous.

Tell me they got better after that. Tell me the next two were better. The time shortened very, very slightly. I mean, my last, my third and final labor was 48 hours. So it wasn't like they got that much shorter. So I'm obviously just, my body just likes to drag things out. But they did get easier each time. And I was like, please, please no stitches. I don't want stitches. I remember saying to the, during my third labor and weirdly, she was the biggest of all of them. She was 813. So she was massive. She was a, she was a big baby and nothing. I had no stitches,

nothing. I walked out there and I'm like, I'm to Tesco and I went off there I was just like no stitches I felt so free um compared to my first labor but all memorable in different ways but horrific everyone's first I think is slightly traumatizing because you just don't know what to expect like you can watch as many episodes of one boy every minute as there are but it's nothing really prepares you for the real thing, does it? No, because you never really see what's going on down there. No. If there was a way of seeing what, and I wish I had,

I kind of feel like I've missed out because I wish I had seen what was going on down there. Because there's one thing when you're watching it from a different perspective and you're looking from a television screen, it doesn't feel real till you're in that moment and you're there trying to push a human out of feel real till you're in that moment and you're there trying to push a human out of your body just not quite and it's the expressions actually

the thing I remember the most is the expression on my husband's face were they horrified well there were moments where he was like oh you're doing really well you could see and I'm you just you kind of focus you need to focus in on something and often it was just his face that I was focusing in on and his expressions would change occasionally. And then there were moments when they couldn't find his heartbeat or it was dipping or slowing. It was the look on his face. And I'd say, what's wrong?

What's wrong? And, or if he's smiling, I'm like, what are you smiling about? What, what, you know? So it was so much of how I felt was dictated by my husband's face. So I could, there was a moment where he would just like fake smile. And he was like like I was like no no no no that's not real what's wrong so definitely that was definitely the most memorable of of the three and was motherhood something that you felt predestined for like growing up did you

always think and obviously I want to become a mum or was it something that came to you after you got married or how did it happen for you? I grew up in a family, a big family, a massive extended family. And that's how, in our culture, that's how family works. You don't, you're not nuclear. There's no such thing. There's grandparents, there's uncles, there's aunts, there's relatives. They are all family. No, you don't get to ever say it's just me and my family. It just doesn't work that way. And so growing up in such an enormous family, as lovely it was and it was it was bright and colorful and we had we were never alone it was always just something every weekend and that was lovely but it put me off completely I was just like really well I was one I'm one of six so and my husband's one of seven so that was a kind of a standard size of a family back then.

And I hated it. Like, I remember trying to prop up the ironing board to do my homework because there was no space anywhere. And my cousins were downstairs and I would kick them out. And they were all like, I was doing my GCSEs and I had cousins who are younger than me and just really just at the time, just not very interesting or fun. And I didn't like them very much. It was just like

you know you just never get a moment to yourself so I remember growing up thinking I don't know that I'll get married and I definitely do I just did not want kids at all so then what changed your mind well it's when when I found my husband I was like oh he'd actually make quite a good dad oh he softened you yeah Yeah, he did. It just sounds like he would make, because in our religion, we're raised to believe that you don't just look for a husband, you look for a good father to your children.

I think that's such a lovely sentiment. I think that's how everyone should think. Yeah, and I just, I think he just, when I met him and we got married, I just, we thought about, we said, look look maybe we might have kids one day and then I just was like oh my goodness he's so good he was so good with my nephew so good with his nephew and niece I just thought oh I think he'd be quite a good dad but

we were always really open for adoption and you know something that we're always thinking about because as our kids get older we'd love to be in a position I was you know to hopefully maybe give somebody else a home because we have the space for it it'd be lovely in our heart and our home so it'd be nice maybe one day. Is that something that's definitely on your radar then it's something you think you might consider later on? Yeah it's something that we will definitely consider at some point and we talk about it all the time and I think because we talk about it it is something that's on our radar all the time and it just seems that life kind of almost gets in the way. And I think that once we're kind of emotionally in the right place for something like that, I think we will do it.

Because we do like we've got so much love to give. And we've got space in our home for some more children. And it just like it feels I'm at a point now where I've had three children where I just watched David Attenborough's documentary. Oh yes, we've all been watching that. Yes, and there was this thing about population. And I was like, should I feel guilty that I've got three kids? My son said, do you feel guilty now that you've destroyed the planet with three children? It's all your fault, Nadia.

I was like, hey, watch it. I've had you, you're here now. So yeah, I think there are children out there and we've got friends, we've got friends that have adopted. So I think as we've seen other people do it, we've definitely thought about it more. So yes, maybe in the future, it's something we always think about. Yeah, my cousin's just adopted. And I think it's one of the most inspiring things that I've ever seen. I think when you see it in real life up close, it really does make you think, wow, what an amazing thing to do. Yeah, such a selfless thing to do.

Yeah, I think it's amazing. Now, you've become kind of the national poster woman for women discovering themselves and facing their fears in order to sort of triumph and push themselves forward. Do you feel like that person? Do you wake up every morning and think, oh, God, I'm a bit of, everyone's looking at me to inspire them. And has that confidence grown with your fame or does it feel a bit weird to you? It still does feel really surreal and odd at times because I am literally, as I talk to you, I'm in my spare bedroom on the floor because I've just sold the bed on Gumtree, got rid of it. That's all good women do. Yeah, because I just, I was like, nobody sleeps in this bed. Nobody's ever slept, not really, apart from my brother occasionally.

Like nobody uses this spare bedroom. So what is it sat here for? So I'm sat here on the floor thinking about colours that I want to turn to paint this room. So when I think about myself as a role model or somebody that people are inspired by, I don't know, it just it doesn't. It's not something that I've really I think about very much. And when I do think about it, it feels a little bit weird and odd because I just don't feel like that person.

Because ultimately, when I had children, my role was always ever to be the best role model to them. And, you know, I've been catapulted in this weird and wonderful world. And with it comes big responsibility, because to me, it's not just a job. And I suppose I've taken that on and I've definitely accepted it more over the last five years. If you'd asked me five years ago, I definitely wouldn't give you the answers I'm giving you now, because I would have said, no, no, I just want to cook and I just want to bake. And please just ask me those questions. Don't talk to me about politics. Don't talk to me about race or religion or identity. But I know how important that is because growing up, I didn't see someone like me in publishing, in television,

in the media. So when I watch myself back, I realize the importance of doing what I do. So yeah, it is unusual, but I understand the significance and the importance of doing what I do. So yeah, it is unusual, but I understand the significance and the importance of it. Because your lack of confidence wasn't like a minor issue. You were actually having anxiety attacks filming Bake Off, weren't you? So it's something so many of our users in the forum discuss. How did it start and how have you got a handle on it now um yeah that's something that really took me it took me a while to think about whether I want I thought about it for a long time about how much I wanted to talk about my anxiety because it's something that I've been riddled with it since the age of seven and I just no matter what I do and what I've tried I just I can't be rid of it

and it's just it's something that I know that I've learned to kind of almost live with um and what I've tried, I just, I can't be rid of it. And it's just, it's something that I know that I've learned to kind of almost live with. And what I find having done this for five years, there's something that I find really odd about the kind of comparison between success and fragility. And the thing is, the one thing I've learned about myself is that you can be successful. You can be confident and be fragile at the same time.

Absolutely. And that's something that I fought with myself quite a lot over the last five years. I used to think, oh, well, if people think I'm successful, surely I have to appear like I have everything. I have to appear like I'm strong, that I don't have weaknesses in myself and that I don't second guess my relationship with my family or my husband or my children or that I don't have um or my own mental health issues that I deal with every single day you know like now that I've just come to accept the fact that actually I can be successful and fragile at the same time makes this journey so much easier for me and I think that's like anyone who is suffering with anxiety or is struggling with

with the two together. Like I honestly, I genuinely believe that you can be really successful, be really motivated, and be fragile and have mental health issues at the same time. And I've come to accept that. And actually, that's made me even more successful and even more strong in what I do. And that's why I'm really open about it. Because I think somebody somewhere has put the idea into our heads that you can't have both and you can, you can be both. So do you talk to your kids about anxiety? How do you frame it for them? I hadn't really spoken to them about mental health issues till about four years ago. And the kids would often ask their dad, like they say oh is mom not it just became normal

for them to they'd ask oh is mom just is mom just a little bit sad today or is she just feeling a bit tired so often they would say is mommy tired today and when they say tired you know I was losing weekends weeks days you know with my children because I was in bed because I couldn't physically get out of bed and they'd say oh mommy's just tired today. And they grew up just watching me be very tired all the time. And about four and a half years ago, I just sat down and I just said, look, this is what I have, this is what I feel, and just kind of explained it to them. And actually, something I realized about myself when I hadn't told them and where I'd made the decision to tell them

was that I'd spent a lot of years lying to my children and I was my own, I was contradicting myself more than anyone I knew. Everything that I was teaching my children, I was doing the complete opposite. And actually I think there's strength in telling the truth. And of course I kind of told them the bits that they needed to know. And as they become older, they definitely know more about me than they did before. And that's, it's only a conversation I had

with them last weekend, as I said, I think it's time you guys learn and understood that we all made sacrifices to be where we are today. And we've all had tough journeys. And I think it's time you start to learn about the journeys. And by that, I don't just mean myself. I mean, my grandparents, my own parents, who have all, as immigrants, have suffered and struggled to get us where we are today. And I always tell them,

I'm paying it forward through you guys, but you have to remember that we have to pay it backwards too. So you have to understand what happened back then. So there is a wisdom in being honest to your children and it's definitely helped me to better understand myself one of the things that I'm really intrigued about is I listened to another interview with you where you said that you try and have a little check-in each day with your kids to kind of see how they're feeling about things and talk about the bigger issues in life including death and kind of reminding them that

all of our days are numbered and we've got to make a difference in the days that we're living can you tell us a bit about that and how you kind of came to think that and want to share that with them I think being a part of a religion so being a Muslim being honest about death is really important and um they've never really experienced grief as such, where they haven't really, they haven't, thank goodness, haven't lost anybody very close to them. And my little boy, we had a, he had a friend and a distant relative who actually when he was four died, so the little boy died at the age of four. So we had to explain death very early on because we'd only just seen him seven or eight days before

and then he got sick and then he he died um and so it was very sudden and so at the age of four we had to explain to our little boy what what it meant to die and to and that death meant not coming back and and how it affected the parents and and what it meant and what it means from a religious perspective also actually they're a little bit what I love about them now is they're very matter of fact and I think now when we when they're hesitant to do something sometimes my little boy will say my elders will say we could be dead tomorrow guys should we just do this and then we just do it and I love that they understand that tomorrow isn't guaranteed yeah and and I love that and I don't know if that's just western western culture but I think

growing up in England I used to always be quite you know in certain crowds I'd be quite nervous about talking um openly about death or mortality because I feel like there's this kind of like we don't talk about that um and I find it really I find it really liberating talking about death I think lots of people are scared to talk about it in a way that you're clearly not which is really refreshing I think actually lockdown and Covid has made people have a few more conversations about this I think it's become I think it's something people have had to face more. Have you noticed that? Oh, absolutely. One nail on the head for sure. During lockdown, we've had to have really difficult conversations about a family friend has passed away. Two family friends have passed away

of COVID over the last few months. We've had, like my grandma and her brother and some of our relatives are all, they got stranded out in Bangladesh when they couldn't come back so we'd kind of explain why great granny couldn't come back um we've had people get sick so my brother-in-law got sick with covid my father-in-law recently had quadruple heart bypass so he we were really worried about him so really talking about all the things that we it's quite a lot I think for children take on, because they were suddenly worrying about the things that most of us adults take on, and don't talk to our kids about because we want to protect them. And we've had to have quite interesting, difficult conversations with the kids. And what I found really just heartwarming about the whole thing

was that roles reversed just a little bit where they were, my kids have definitely in the last seven months learned how to be more nurturing and the other way around towards me and their dad, where we would normally be the ones to prop them up and make sure that they're okay. Now, I found my kids asking me, hey, mom, are you okay today? That's really interesting.

I found that really heartwarming that actually they were doing, clearly our children are learning the things that we do to them they're mimicking those well they're learning empathy and empathy is surely one of the greatest things you'd want them to have in their life isn't it yeah and it's that even for myself like I think where I would my mum would say things to me where she would want to keep an eye on me and make sure that I am protected I was I think as they get older we're doing it anyway but we I found myself doing it quite a lot with my mom and let me tell you during lockdown it is not easy grounding your parents oh we've all struggled with that one oh my goodness I'm like mom you're grounded and she's

a key worker so she's like you need me everybody needs me I can't stop and and she hasn't she's worked all through lockdown hasn't had a moment six days a week 12 hour shifts working all the time so um super proud of my mum because she's a complete superhero complete legend big cheer for Nadia's mum yeah she's amazing she's amazing she cleans linen in a factory where they clean hospital linen. Oh, wow. Such a vital job right now. And she keeps telling me don't tell anyone. So I was like, no, I'm going to crowbar that conversation into every podcast, mum, because I'm really proud of you. And people don't realise that people like my mum, an immigrant who doesn't

speak very much English, and all her colleagues are immigrants every single one of them they all worked really hard through the lockdown and I'm so proud of everything that they've done because they've worked really hard to keep our country going and I'm like no no mom I'm going to crowbar that into every conversation so we're really yeah it's people like your mom that kept the world turning like it's those jobs that matter it's those unlikely heroes and she's definitely one of them and um but yeah so tried to, I tried to ground my dad and he just said, I am never going to listen to you. And if I am going to listen to you, it's going to cost you.

And I was like, no, dad, no. But he doesn't listen. He doesn't listen. He doesn't listen. Oh, none of them do. They're a very willful generation, that generation. They really are. They're like, what what covid i'm like dad

you can't say that it's real it's like having to parent two generations at once isn't it sometimes and then i just do the whole emotional thing and i get my kids to call and say granddad no no we don't want you to die and that's it that's real good yeah that's when they listen. No shame. Yep. So Nadia, do you think part of your desire to teach your kids about embracing life today and not counting on tomorrow is connected to the illnesses of your siblings, what they dealt with as children? I've read that you used to say their names out loud before you went to sleep at night to ward off their deaths. Yes. loud before you went to sleep at night to ward off their deaths yes I personally have a very

sick sibling as well so it definitely altered and shaped me growing up and I'm just really interested in that part of you yeah I never I don't think I ever acknowledged the effect having sick siblings had on me because I think when you've got sick brothers and sisters who are in and out of hospital quite a lot and often with my sister it was life or death um and with my brother it was very kind of aesthetic so some of the things that you know he would come home and he'd be it would be hard to look him in the eyes because he looked so different and sometimes quite scary so it was you know as a child of you not even double digits, we had to learn perspective quite quickly. And I think it definitely shaped who I am, and certainly my other siblings, because

there's a point where you have to kind of ask yourself, is what I'm about to say as important as what's happening right now. And so you learn to not share things that are affecting you or that are important to you in that moment. Because when you're seven or eight, or you're being bullied, or somebody's being mean to you, that's your world. And that's what matters in that moment. But when you've got a sick sibling, you kind of have to ask yourself, well, like, I'm not on death's door. I'm not having an operation where I'm going to be unrecognizable after they're done with me. So is it really worth telling my mom right now that somebody said something really mean to me so I think quite early on you learn perspective and I

think you have to grow up much faster than all your peers and everybody around you where you know girls around me were playing with Barbie dolls I was sat in bed saying my brothers and sisters names because I thought that that would be the thing that kept them alive and it created a kind of repetitive behavior in me that you know I clearly needed diagnosing with something there was definitely there were certainly had issues and every time I loved somebody they they were on that list and the list just got bigger and bigger I had to then tell myself I remember as a child that stop loving people because if you love them and then they have to die yeah and so I would tell

myself that you only have 10 fingers and between you there's eight people and the only other person like I did I remember culling people off the list at some point and then um yeah I know I know 10 fingers I've only got room for 10 people and I never put myself on the list but my nan was on the list and I even put my granddad on the list in the hope that if I said his name enough times he might come back and things like that and so what I taught myself at a young age was that don't love people because if you love them they're just like when they go it'll hurt and I've been really lucky because everybody close to me is still around and I still have my granny who's like ripe old age of 90 who's hilariously wonderful and still recognizes my voice when I ring her which I think is not bad when you've got 40 grandchildren

40 wow that's so impressive I'm one of 67 I'm gonna say on my dad's side one of 67 grandkids on my dad's side that's the last time I counted I don't know who else has had babies seven wow yeah lucky we don't lucky we don't celebrate Christmas right that raises another question I was going to ask you are you very aware that you're a Muslim mom raising children of color in a country that I'm ashamed to say is struggling a bit with its identity as a multicultural, multiracial country? Or do you just try and soldier on regardless? Like, how do you deal with your consciousness around that? Growing up, I didn't really question my identity till I was in a situation where my surroundings were more representative of the UK that I know, which is multicultural. But I grew up in a very kind of Muslim heavy school, be it high school, primary school,

and even up to college. And it was really when I went to work, I realized that actually the world is very multicultural. And the world we live in is very mixed. And it's something that I didn't really deal with. I didn't really think about to be honest but I did there were little things that would happen where I would walk in a room and I could kind of almost feel the silence or there were situations where now that I look back where I went in for a job interview I remember going in for a hand modeling interview and it was that's all yeah hand modeling for jewelry and it was back in the day when they used to have these little kind of paper um ads in the newspaper and I would

look and I and I I was desperate for a part-time job and I um I remember going to this job interview and I came in and she said um oh she that's all she did she I kind of went in and went to take the form room full of women and I said she just looked at me she says ah all she did she I kind of went in and went to take the form room full of women and I said she just looked at me she says ah oh and then she kind of took me to a corner but spoke loud enough so that everybody in the room could hear and she just said I'm afraid that I can't take your application and then I said why and she said because unfortunately brown hands don't sell jewellery oh Jesus so that's my, actually, that was the first time in my life I'd experienced something where,

because of the colour of my skin, I wasn't able to do what everybody else could do. And that's why I have this thing with wearing jewellery. I just really struggle with it because I'm like, ah, you know, like, it doesn't, if my... So it's really affected you. It's kind of stayed with you in a huge way.

Yeah, I don't even wear my wedding rings because I just think that sometimes I just my hands just look really ugly to me and ever since she's ever since that kind of so yes raising children in a society where they will stand out because I mean they're Muslim they're young Muslim children of color and and they they will there's going to be a point in their life. And I don't shy away from that. And I say, look, I pray that you guys live in a world where the colour of your skin or your religion won't come into play and you can be just on a level playing field with everybody else. And the reality is that I just think we're so far away from that world that

I just can't see anything changing for my children. But what I can do as a woman of colour and as a woman and as a Muslim one, the only thing I can do is knock some of those hurdles down for them. And I'm hoping that by doing the job that I do and by representing myself within publication, within television, I can say, well, actually, you know, no, there isn't space for me, but I'm going to make space for me. And I think that's really important. It is. I, the one thing I tell my children is that the world may not have been made for us, but one thing you have to always remember is that we have this mantra in our house and it's, we say elbows out to each other. So in those moments where they feel like they don't fit in,

or they're unsure because of who they are because of the religion they they are a part of I always tell them elbows out and that's like if you think about it physically but if you think about it like if you think about the action of sticking your elbows out you're creating space for yourself and I always tell them if there's no space for you create space for you because in doing that you're going to create space for others and that's kind of what I tell myself every single day when I don't fit in, because the truth is, I don't fit in this world. I don't fit in the industries that I work in. Because when I'm filming, and I look back at everybody else behind the cameras with the sound,

the runners, everyone, there is not one person of color, I have worked in teams of 4050 people, and I'm the only person of color in the room. There's something wrong with television. There's something wrong with publication. When somebody tells me, actually, the topic that you want to write about is I have to deal with that's the kind of stuff that I have to face every single day and I have to take that knock back and that rejection and find myself doing the same thing somewhere else because I don't believe that the whole world is full of hatred and that there are people out there who are trying to make those changes and I will find the right home for myself wherever I go um with people who are willing to make changes in these industries. You can't see me, but while you were saying all of that, I was smiling and nodding and almost punching the air. Like, come on, Nadia. This is why we love you. You're amazing.

Now, I must say, in the same same spirit I was absolutely blown away by your book Finding My Voice yeah you shared very bravely and candidly and with actual actual kind of quite a remarkable grace how you were sexually abused as a child um yeah where did you find the courage to go public with that story you must have agonized about the impact it would have on your parents your extended family your children where does that come from that was like torture it felt like torture to me because it was something that I'd written into the book then written out and I did that six or seven times and I wrote it in and then I wrote it out and then I wrote it in and then I said to my husband I have to talk to you about something. So I sat down in his office. And honestly, often when he's in the office, I just blabber on and he carries on working.

And I said, no, no, no, you're going to have to turn around for this. So he turned around and I said, I don't think I can put this in. I don't know how it's going to affect the kids. And he said, what's the worst that will happen? And I said, I just feel like I don't want them to judge me. And he said, isn't that part of the problem? Isn't that the problem that you have already put that judgment on yourself and you've decided that it's too shameful to share with your children?

Surely it's an education that our children need that you could have done with years and years ago as a child yourself about what is right, what is wrong and what is acceptable and what isn't and and actually he was right and he just said very wise he said we always give advice and he just said who are you writing this book for and that's a big question for me and I think that was when I really really put some welly into writing the book thinking you know what actually who am I writing this book for and as much as it's a memoir of snippets, tiny, tiny snippets of my relationships and my roles, I had to really question who I was writing this book for. And actually, this book was written for all of those people who don't have a voice, all of those people who have been abused and haven't had

the courage to say something, all of those people who question their identity and what they say and what it means and what it means to say those things. And I realized at that point, as soon as he asked me that question, that this book is so much more than just my voice. And I know from the hundreds of people that I've bought the book, that have read the book, they have found some sort of courage that we are all built with. We have that courage somewhere. We just sometimes, like that voice sits at the tip of our tongue or heavy on our chest, but it's there and we have to find it. And I'm not saying that I can scream and shout and be confident and say things all the time. But in that moment, when I'd written it out, I wrote it

right back in and I sent it to the editor and I said, that's it. It's gone. Don't give it back to me anymore. That's it. Just don't. And they didn't even edit it. They just exactly word for word, exactly as I'd written it. And she just said, this doesn't need editing. It's exactly as it should be. And it was just, it was really, it was uplifting for me. It was, felt like I'd lifted a load off my shoulders. And you were saying, you know, how it would affect my family and actually for me certainly the sexual abuse is something that's such a taboo subject that happens so frequently within our culture and I'm sure and I can only speak for my own community and my own

culture but it is something that happens every single day everybody that I know that has been close to me in friendship and is a family everybody I know has suffered some form of abuse and it's kept quiet and swept under the rug because it's not something that nobody wants to bring shame to the family no one wants to bring shame and I think no one knows what to do I think I think people are sort of paralyzed by it, aren't they? I mean, I know what I would do, but I don't know if I can say it on here. But yeah, I know what I would do. And I just think that because of the approval of elders and approval of community, that word community, as much as I love it, I despise it at the same time. Well, it carries a heavy weight as well, doesn't it?

It does. It has been the downfall for many of us uh the whole answering to a community the whole being a part of this group where you there are these unspoken rules that some of us never really were never really going to fit in with and so my teenagers have both read the book and they they both just hugged me and said if I could find the little five six year old you I would give her a hug and say it's going to be okay and that for me was one of the best moments of my life because my kids saw a part of me and they I allowed myself to be vulnerable to my own children and that makes me not just vulnerable it also makes me the mom I want to be which is the honest one um yeah It makes you vulnerable and strong all at the same time.

And that's the goal, isn't it? That's the goal, to be real. Everyone has strong bits and weak bits. That's what being a human is. Exactly. So is there any part of you that you still keep back? Or is that kind of a form of control you don't think you need anymore? I guess, is there anything we don't know about you

Nadia um no I mean I don't I suppose I don't really have I mean we shouldn't say everything we think that's something I've always taught my kids I just always say look just because you think definitely not saying I mean if I said everything I thought but um I think I'd be locked up but I always tell my kids like like, you don't have to. It's the attitude of I am who I am. Take it or leave it. I'm not that person. I'm not that person because I do believe as an adult that we all should have some sort of filter.

We have to learn how to navigate ourselves in different situations. And that's something I'm trying to teach my children is that the things like, for instance, there's certain things that they can say in front of me to me that are completely acceptable in our home, but not necessarily acceptable in my mom's house because she's of a different generation. So like in our culture, the kids cannot use each other's names. They have so they have words to say older brother. We have words to say little sister and so they don't use each other's names and that's just a form of respect and whilst it may feel archaic for lots of people it's a tradition that I'm happy to keep going because actually it's really sweet it's really sweet because you can't have a go at somebody when you've got such a lovely pet name

for them if you know what I mean like you can't have a go at them and then say so there's a there's a there's a wisdom in in certain yeah it's interesting that is interesting because if for instance there's things like in our culture I can't say my husband's name so what do you call him so I call him so-and-so's dad in front of my parents so I'll say like so I'll say like Musa's dad or Dawood's dad or Mariam's dad if I'm if I'm talking about him I would never say Abdel because it would literally my mum would like honestly I'm sure she would throttle me if I did that she would kill me she would just she would it's just not done I have never heard my mother who is not even she's not even she's not even 60 yet my goodness she's quite young um I just realized. But yeah, I have never heard my mum ever, ever in her life say my dad's name.

Yeah. All families have little sore points that they know. Like you say, your mum's nearly 60 and you're this grown, you know, fabulous woman. But we all still have certain things we wouldn't dare do in front of our parents. It's fascinating. Absolutely. Like the other um about a week ago I had a haircut and I went from kind of mid back length curly big hair to completely almost pixie like just wow yeah so like shaved sides like nice curly top oh my goodness I did it and my first thing my sister said oh my god that's really edgy you You look really cool. Have you shown mum yet? And I was like, no. I said, don't be ridiculous.

I'm going to let it grow out a little bit before I show mum. And she said, okay, that's fine. You know what she did? As soon as she got off the phone from me, she texted the image to my mum's house. But because she could see my mum hadn't seen the message, she went round and showed her. And I said, you cow and then then she called me on FaceTime and I thought it was her ringing me and there's my mum's face and she goes oh no she said hmm I've seen what you've done to your hair and she said did she break she said hmm you look

like a boy oh and I didn't say anything and I said do you like it and she said we'll see what it looks like when it grows out I was like okay we all still want approval from our parents no matter how old we are don't we um what do you want Nadia Hussain to be most remembered for is it a trailblazer for women everywhere is it just the best mum to your kids? Is it the best cook? Is it survivor? What is it that Nadia wants to be remembered for? I think that's a really good question. And I've been asked that a couple of times. And I think if I was going to be remembered as anything, I would like to be remembered as the maker of space.

I don't want anyone to remember my name. What a fabulous answer. What a fabulous answer. I don't want anyone to remember my name. I don't care if I am erased from Wikipedia forever. I don't care if there's not one book left in the land with my name or my picture on it. I want to be known as the person who refused refused to be pushed out of an industry that she doesn't belong in and I want to be the person that says she was resilient enough to stick her elbows

out so far for so long that she created space for others and that's what I would like my legacy to be I think I'm gonna cry I know I I've yeah that's pretty profound Nadia. All those out is staying with me. I might get a tattoo Nadia. Oh don't tell your mum. No she'll go mental. So Nadia final question and it's a little bit weird and you I make Annie ask this one because I'm just I hate asking it but please will you imagine that you're putting Annie and I to bed and sing us your lullaby? Because every family has a little song that they sing to their kids when they can't sleep.

And we love hearing what they are. Oh, so I don't, I don't actually, when my kids can't sleep, I do this thing. And it's really weird. Now that you said it, I'm imagining you guys and I'm like doing it to you. And you're slightly creeped out, apologies. So I do this thing where I, so when they sleep, they like to be really, really like tucked in. And then, so I do this thing where I,

I don't sing them lullabies. It's really weird because it's, it's actually my husband that does the singing of lullabies because he's got an amazing singing voice and plays the guitar. So I can't really match that. So he plays them guitar every night um and and he sings like Disney songs every single night which is really good yeah it's like he doesn't have time for anything very rarely makes eye contact when he's working but he will get up and he's like dad of the year singing Disney songs

and playing the guitar I can't even play a triangle if I tried but I do this thing with my kids where I look over over them and then I kind of tuck I do this thing where I tuck tuck tuck from their shoulders with their blanket and then you just imagine it like kind of like from their shoulders tuck the blanket under them and just keep saying tuck tuck tuck tuck tuck tuck tuck and it's really cute because i've done this to them since they were really little because they know the closer i get to their toes like that's the point where i would tickle them and they'll untuck themselves even though i've done a really good job of tucking them so i'll go tuck tuck tuck all the way so shoulders elbows hands all the way down

their thighs and then as i get to their, they start to wriggle a little bit. oh I love all of this so last question of all for me will you adopt me now you said you wanted to adopt someone well I am in the spare bedroom which is getting a redecorate so I'm just saying like there could be room there could be room let's keep talking let's keep talking if gentlemen's grey is your colour then you can come and look at it I'll put up with any colour I'll put up with any colour right thank you so much Nadia you've been an absolute inspiration to have on the show thank you so much

I'm going to take Nanny away before she gets creepy have an amazing day guys and you, take care Nadia, thank you bye