The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep60: Melanie Sykes on her autism diagnosis

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Listen as TV presenter, model and Frank magazine Editor-in-Chief tells Annie and Wendy what it means to be diagnosed with autism at 51, after nearly two decades of parenting a child with autism.

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears, brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary. And I'm Wendy Gollidge. And together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments. With guests who are far more interesting than we are. Welcome to another potentially award-winning episode of Sweat, Snot and Tears. I nicked that joke from our producer, Dave. Wendy, I'm throwing the intro over to you as I believe you have a house full this morning and need to get all the caveats in now about the banging, clattering, clanging, screaming, crying, laughing that we might hear. Well, actually, no, I did, but they walked out of the door

about three minutes ago. So I have my lovely sister-in-law and her children here and they are up for London adventure, but she's got three little people and her three little people combined with my two little people is a big, fat amount of noise. So up until a couple of minutes ago, it was clanging and banging and heepo by Willie and various other things, but now all is well. What have you done? Tied them up and gagged them?

No, they're on the train. They've gone. I've kicked them out. Oh my God. Okay, so we need to get this in the can before they date to come back. No pressure, guest. But as a mum of teenage boys herself and the editor-in-chief of a website called Frank, let's hope that our lovely guest today is prepared for the chaos that is Sweats, Knots and Tears.

Welcome, Melanie Sykes. Hello. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. Now, normally we ask our guests to tell us if there's been any sweat, snot or tears in their house this morning, but with your lads being so big, they're 17 and 19. Is that right? That's right. We're guessing that's not the case and no one cried and no one wiped their nose on your arm. No, no, they're past that stage now. Excellent.

Yes, my eldest is at university. Oh, that's so big. Yeah, he's big and he's gone. And my youngest is 17 and he spent the night with his father. So I don't have children at all today to wake up to. So, yeah. Lucky you. I think Wendy would trade places with you right now um no so instead of that standard opener we're going to cut right to the chase because you've had big news this week tell us share what's been going on well

it's news to you but it was I got the news last week I did an okay I did an assessment a series of assessments um not last week the week before um around just to see if I was autistic and it and it came back that I was and I got the news on Thursday last week yeah and I put it on social media on Friday morning just because I think I should tell everybody I think it's really important information I agree yeah and um yeah it's been quite crazy since then and how it's landed with lots and lots of people my phone has blown up oh really yeah with with with so many men and women telling me, thank you, thank you for putting it out there because it's not a negative.

It's so much to tell you, really. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. Yeah, it's huge for me, but it's also huge for a lot of people. And that makes me really happy. I was going to say huge round of applause for sharing it with everyone. Because as you say, if it just takes one person to say something, you know,

and it gives everyone else so much more confidence in who they are and what they're about and their story. But that must have been hard to decide to share it with everyone. Or was it just the obvious thing to do? No, no, no. I didn't find it hard. I don't find many things hard to do, really. If I want to do it, I do it regardless. So I know it's really funny as well in the industry. People go, I love the way you put a spin on it.

There is no spin. I don't do spin. This is it. And I think people have known me long enough to know that I only say what I believe in I never say anything for effect yeah it is what it is I am what I am that's so refreshing in itself it's so flipping refreshing please don't ever change well I'm not because this is my the fabric of who I am and my and being autistic isn't something it's not like a jacket I put on and can take off no it's who you are it's who I am and so where I've put certain character traits

down to certain things it turns out it's it is I'm autistic and and that's why I operate in the way that I do. You said it's been life affirming, which is just so, again, really refreshing thing to hear. Does your life suddenly make sense when you're told something like that? Or have you had to kind of go back and reframe everything in your own head? Well, because it was Harry Thompson who I'm working with. We're trying to get a documentary off the ground about the education system. Yes. And about autistic children within it that don't quite fit the brief and therefore get left behind.

Yes. And he came over to the flat to talk to me and to work out what the proposal was going to look like. And he was sitting opposite me and he just could see that I was autistic and that I had ADHD. And so the minute he suggested it to me, I already started to process the idea. So it was like even before going for the assessment or having the result, I'd already started to look and think, oh, the cogs were turning.

Yeah. And yeah. And so because well because your son Tino is also autistic isn't he so you have some exposure to the symptoms well they're not symptoms not symptoms sorry shoot me I know that and that's another thing I don't I don't want to it's not about shaming people because they don't know the terminology it's about educating people about the terminology and believe you me I get it wrong and I will have to learn it as I go as well so I'm so please don't say that because it's it's about educating because it's not a symptom it's not like it's not a disease and at the moment it's called a disorder I'm sorry I don't feel like I've got a disorder I think everything that's amazing about me is is my autism because it is me and I think I'm pretty bloody great do you know

there's elements of me that I think, Oh, you need to work on that Melanie, you know, maybe you're a bit blunt there, whatever, whatever, whatever. But ultimately all the good stuff about me is, is autism. It is me. That's great though. As a child, if there's a kid listening to this who is autistic, how lovely to hear someone say that and not be feel like there's a problem not be othered not be othered exactly this is the thing as well is that you know that they

there's neurotypical people and then there's neurodivergent people but it for me it seems like there's probably more neurodivergent people in the world than there is the typical. Yeah, because who's typical of anything? Who is? Well, that's the thing. And so the education system is just so tunnel vision. Yet you've got all these people with all these skills and gifts and creativity and single minded focus on certain topics that they that need to be um upheld and nurtured and therefore society will be a happier place I mean I at 50 actually 49 started the frank magazine which was back then a bi-monthly 200 paid yes online magazine that celebrated women over 40 and and it was like my reason for being suddenly landed and I was working on computer with somebody that was the tech and I would scan every single page

of this 200 page bit of gorgeousness and know exactly where things should be how things should look just such a stick I had no idea i had that vision i had no idea till i was 49 that i was good at that that's fascinating honestly and i can look at a page and be like right yeah font needs to change i mean i used to drive my tech person crazy because i'd be like can you just shunt that bit up can you just go to the right one more not to me hello i am that person right there you go there you go. You're in good company here with your general fiddling around with stuff. We've made designers cry in the past, Annie and I.

Oh my God. We're not proud. We're not proud. No, we're not proud. No, but you know what? And that's the other thing again is the other person tears is nothing to do with you. If you have a vision, you can't help it.

No, no, but it's true that all the people's reactions to who you are really is their stuff is this oh yeah but I need that so yeah Wendy that's your big life lesson that you need to take on board because Wendy takes everyone's feelings into her and thinks they're her thing don't you end I do I'm terrible at it yeah rubbish at it and it's a real it's not something that's good for you definitely no yeah but but it's you know what it is it's like anything you have to exercise it if you can exercise it you end up becoming very very skilled at it and it's just about making the changes i i hear you you know but if anybody rings me about i need to

talk to you i think shit what have i done you know that's my instinct oh my god what did i do especially when i used to drink um but i i don't i don't do that anymore um but um yeah so it is a skill it's a skill set really and but i but as i've matured, I realise, yeah, I'm only responsible for me and my environment. I can't be responsible for how you receive that information. I'm sorry. Yeah. So we were going to ask you loads about Frank, actually,

because obviously we're fascinated because I'm the editor-in-chief of Netmums, Wendy's associate editor. It's what we do every day. How did you come up with, like, how did it get off the ground? Like, how did it happen right well so I I was desperate to get out of the industry of television just because it hadn't been serving me well I've had some really weird experiences within it and I just I was done with it because over 25 years I've said no more than I've said yes to because because I just have

and despite the health of my bank balance, I need to tell you, it's like I've been very precise about what I want to do and not do, but I really needed to find an exit route. And I was moaning to a friend one morning just before we were about to do a yoga class. And she said, why don't you start a women's magazine for women over 40? She suggested I was the poster girl for it. I'm 51 now, but at the time I was a poster girl in her words and um that I was quite a motivational person so I and as always when I'm given a good idea I'm wrong with it so I I knew somebody that has an online magazine so I just rang them and said look I've got this vibe this is what I want it to be and she just helped me put it together so it was really just me and her at the beginning and we did it and I just rang people and said can I interview you so I did the interviews

I edited it I sourced all the imagery um um the title was a collaborative thing because I wanted it to be something that represented me and my attitude which is frank it could have also been called blunt but not as sexy not quite mine would be called gobshite there's a market for that for sure definitely and so did you just feel your way did you just feel your way with it or did you say how do people normally run websites what do you mean i do that or did no well i mean i know i just got somebody involved who knew how to put a bi-monthly online through a certain platform and i just created the content and creating content for me was easy because i thought who am i interested in what i want to speak about and just got on the phone and started asking people

and i've been interviewing people pretty much from the beginning of my career in television I thought, who am I interested in? What do I want to speak about? And just got on the phone and started asking people. And I've been interviewing people pretty much from the beginning of my career in television. That was my thing. I think some people may forget that, but I'm a good interviewer. I've not been given the opportunity much of late in my career, but I'm very good with people. I'm very interested in people, which is the key to being a good interviewer. Yeah, you've got to be nosy as hell yeah you've got to care about what people feel and think some of the interviews you did with alan carr had me in pieces because you'd be asking questions and he's just like sabotaging

everything you're saying by being an arse a lovely arse but nevertheless oh you don't get to interview properly when you're sat next to Alan Carr, I reckon. No, it's a different type of interview. Yeah, it's a different format. Sorry, I dive on. No, no, no, you're right, you're right. It is very different to how Frank was written and how Frank is. I'm just a very, I think the magazine is celebratory.

And you've got to remember as well, for 25 years, been interviewed to myself through the media outlets and their energy around interviews is not mine um they are looking for some salacious line they're looking for the negative in what you're saying they um they apparently there's like a diary of when things are supposed to be spoken about so you've got for example autism day or women's empowerment day for me those days are every day i know time and so people go oh don't you want to run this article because this has been spoken about in the media and the fact is no i'll write what i'm interested in all year round absolutely i one of the things i go mad about as editor of netmums is that that thing of oh it's blah blah week this week so we'll run x and no it's blah no no no if something's

important and it needs to be spoken about it's important it needs to be spoken about and that's the end of it and i and that's me as well that's me as well i don't i don't want to be put into a cage in terms of how i put something over. It's my baby. And you do disservice to your readers as well, because they don't suddenly care about something one week and then switch off and not care about it the next. I mean, no one lives like that. Yeah, exactly.

So are you glad you've made the shift? Well, it's been like, you know, like I said, this was 2018. I think we started it. It's only been an online magazine, actually a website for the past six weeks. Ah, I didn't realize that bit. Yes. So, where it was a bi-monthly, it's now constantly rolling stop. So, it's a slightly different shift. I was managing it because I was able to do all the work whilst doing it, because obviously I still needed to work in order to pay the rent

and everything. Yeah. I still do. But I need to ignite sponsorship and things like that around the magazine to keep that moving, which I'm working on at the moment. But the thing is it's changed now. It's for women of all ages and it's about sustainability and how we can live more sustainable lives because I did a show for the BBC called Shotwell for the Planet and although

I've always had green issues in my life my dad was always going on about green issues in the 70s and my dad stood in the local elections for the Green Party etc so I've heard amazing yeah so I did this show and I suddenly thought oh my god I'm learning all these things about how we should be and how we we can as individuals help. And I just got home after filming and just thought, right, look at go in every room, look at every area of your life and how you can become more sustainable. And I've done it. Not completely. I've got a lot to do um yeah just even my down to my toothbrush down to my teeth loss to to the detergents that I use to I've literally gone through and changed everything because you have to because it's up to us we have the power to make the changes so well and change only happens when people say you

know oh you know nothing's changing about climate change well then we then you need to change what's going on you can't expect a change to happen unless you change what you're doing can you exactly and it's the same with everything so if you go on the website every brand i mean i to be honest i'm not really into fashion and i'm not necessarily that excited about beauty products either but lots of people are so therefore if you're going to buy something do it this way if you're going to need that cream make sure it's you know it's this cream because this cream doesn't use plastic or whatever whatever whatever if you do want to shop still because I've just you know I just most of my things are secondhand now I mean I've always been a lover of vintage stuff but I do I don't buy new and

any photo shoot I'll do in the future will have to be using sustainable brands or higher services clothing higher and things like that so I'm you know I'm passionate about this because it's our life it's our future it's our children's future and we have to act so I think one of the really inspiring things about um the kind of the green movement if you want to call it that at the moment is a lot of it is coming from kids they're the ones who are really to them it's a no-brainer like why would you not do something to help the planet that's absolutely nuts have you are your boys quite keen to sort of I feel like they embrace it more in an everyday way almost than a lot of fully grown up grown ups do. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I tell my boys they understand what's going on, you know, like, you know, we tried the vegan route for a little while, but that didn't land very well at all.

And are there boys in your house? No, I just think some of the vegan things they didn't like the taste of it's as if yeah i don't know if it's a gender-based decision or anything um i think it's just them as as human beings are like you know that that that butter is not right you know i tend to agree with them in fact there is a great brand i won't say but there is a very good uh vegan butter um i'm actually trying to contact them at the moment going yo anise is sponsored for the magazine um yeah um and they know they've noticed a change in what i buy and they've noticed that they've had you know and i'm constantly sending you know bamboo toothbrushes to university

for my son and and i'm i'm saying to him get involved at your university how sustainable is your university you need to get that he's like oh my god i'm trying to study can you start hounding me about this shit yeah so i'm going to the pub mom but he doesn't drink so uh he my kids aren't like that my kids are a very um one, one of my eldest reports came back once saying Roman walks his own path. And I've always been very proud of him for that because he's not easily swayed to conform. But, you know, it's not surprising really. He's got me as a mother. I think that's great. I think one of the things I would wish for my children is they never feel the need to conform because yeah, you'll only ever be really happy,

if you're yourself. Now, one of the things that made me actually quite emotional listening to your Instagram announcement about your diagnosis was that you said how your autism had made you vulnerable to abusive people in the past and people that lie. How do you come to terms with that vulnerability now that you know there's a reason for it? It made me want to go out and beat up everyone who'd ever been mean to you. It made me feel really sad. Do you know what?

There's loads of people out there pretending to be other people, aren't there? And there are a lot of con artists and people that use people to get what they want. And, and I've had a lot of it. I have had a lot of con artists and people that use people um to get what they want and and I've had a lot of it I have had a lot of it um because as I said if you tell me something I've got no reason to not believe you because everything I say is completely authentic um so yeah it's really annoying but it's actually it's okay like I'm not going to change my personality. I've just got what somebody said to me recently was just get a second opinion on people in future. That's clever.

That's really clever. Yeah. And so I'm going to do that. I think we should all do that to be honest. Absolutely right. Yeah. And so in business and in friendships as well, it's just like, just run it past someone, you know?

Yeah. I think I instinctively do that quite a lot with Wendy Wendy's my win-win really yeah that's really cool sounding bored and general just that's beautiful that you have that relationship I think it's really important um I don't really have that just yet I'm I'm you know it's it's funny I don't have a massive group it's not funny it just is what it is I don't have a big friendship group I never really have um but I'm fine with it I mean it's really interesting in terms of um how it's rolled with me um from school to being in the modeling industry and then going into TV, you know, I don't like big groups of people. I often, I'd often sit at a party and go,

how is everybody enjoying this? It's really boring. To be honest, they were all probably thinking it too. They were just faking it a bit more. They're just better at faking it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I was faking it. I was still sitting there enduring it, but I was questioning it. I mean, I just recently did it, did a TV show and I won't say which show, but I was in a green room and I was just looking at all these other famous people go.

And I actually said to them all, I'm sorry, are you actually enjoying this? What did they say? What did they say? They always like to tell me how they weren't. Oh, wow. Would the world just have more conversations like that? they say what did they say they always like to tell me how they weren't oh wow yes well there we go would the world just have more conversations like that exactly exactly and then they're all telling me actually this happened at the beginning and this this was said to me and I didn't like this and I'm like oh my god thank god I'm not the only one so so yeah I'm going to continue to to question and to speak to and and be be myself in a in an

environment that that isn't necessarily bloody required and no but it's needed now it's needed now we've had enough being fake in the world haven't we for 2 000 years let's let's do it exactly like it's not working for anybody um and it has honestly it's just been so interesting the last few days as well as it's like for me it's about the systems that are set up that keep us suppressed like the education system for example like the media itself you know i want to make a short show about um the education system around autism and i've sort of been told well you know the bbc are doing a show with paddy mcginnis and his wife which is brilliant and i really hope it lands well and everybody receives it well so we've done that quota of autism programs and you're like

this isn't a moment and one one hour programme and we'll leave it for another four years. That's really depressing that people think like that, isn't it? Well, it's a line that they say, which I am going to challenge because it's excellent. Go on, Melanie. Go on, Melanie. Yeah. So these are broadcasting houses.

Seemingly these people are in power. Well, no, I'm going to question it. I am. You're done, yeah. You go get them. I like it. So have you had to fight for stuff in education for Tino? Have you had to kind of like fight to get his rights or have you found it quite good? Do you know what it is? It's just with Tino it's slightly different.

What it is, we have to find the strengths in these children. Like you do in any child, actually. Yeah. Yeah. But they don't really, do they? You get to a point where, like, for example, really, somebody could have let me know that I was really good around art and I was more of a creative than I was anything else although

I did well in English but I love words so and and was always an avid reader and and still am I don't I've had a book on the go since I was bloody five do you know what I mean it's like yeah it's just what it is but but but the education system didn't really serve me that well. And I think that, yeah, I think we need to start with what that personal interest is. And we've all got personal specific interests. And look at you if it's maths. Knock yourself out. It's definitely not maths.

It's definitely not maths. No. I really like maths. Yeah, so that's it. You're so brilliant. I married a mathematician because I'm so shit at maths. Definitely not maths. No, I really like maths. Yeah, so that's it. You're so brilliant. I married a mathematician because I'm so shit at maths. I knew my kids wouldn't stand a chance otherwise. Not my strength, Melanie.

It's not my strength. But that's the point, isn't it? It doesn't have to be. And it's about celebrating people for all of their specific interests and expanding from that and then finding a job that will work for that person and therefore will be a cog in a machine that's just working so beautifully because the right people are doing the right things. And that not everyone's doing the same bloody things because we can't all do the same things because then the world would fall apart. Yeah. Now, I know that you've been, you've kind of, although you haven't been with your, the dad of your children for a while,

you do work together on this issue and he's passionate as well, isn't he? We don't work together on any issues. No, we don't. Okay. I just, I saw, I watched an interview with you on this morning talking about raising awareness about. Oh yeah, that was, you know,

that was quite a few years ago now. Okay. We were trying trying to get into a second trying to find the right secondary school for Valentino and we live in London and and the options were pretty great pretty shocking you know like I remember going to one school and there was a child locked in a room that was padded I'm not even joking because this child had struggled with something and therefore to calm down was put in a room well I'm sorry take the child outside in the therefore to calm down was put in a room. Well, I'm sorry. Take the child outside in the garden to calm down. Lock them in a room. So I was just like, oh, my God, my son is not coming here. And it was just that it was slim pickings, man. It was slim pickings. So that's got to change. Yeah.

Yeah. But obviously, Daniel, co-parents, we are co-parents. Well, this was what this is what I was leading to. It's co-parenting and issues around it and how to get it right are one of the most asked questions in the Netmums forum. So I was going to say, what are your tips? How do you get it right? How do you make it work? Well, with Daniel, we both love the children equally. So we want what's best for them. And so we tend to find common ground on how to do that.

Yeah, I think finding common ground is the key, isn't it? Yeah. It's not to say it's always completely clicks in. It's a negotiation, but never massive. And you've got to be open to other people's interpretation of things as well. You know, you can't, you know know I'm able to just yeah just just work with him on it because he's my other person regarding the children yeah I think where people may be obviously is if they were in a marriage that was you know they can't they can't separate the pain that they had in the marriage from parenting. That is a big issue for people, I would suspect.

But for me, that has nothing to do with it. This is what we're doing with the children and this is how it must be. And he feels the same. So it's great. That is good. In terms of having a child who is autistic and a child who isn't, has it ever been difficult to juggle their different needs um well having two children is a juggle anyway right yes oh yeah i mean it's like i just don't know how people do more than two we had this conversation yesterday there's only two

of us if you split it again outnumbered how do you give them all the right amount of attention maybe i just don't have the patience for it you know what i've got so much patience as a mother but no patience anywhere else it's really interesting like i've zero tolerance for a lot of things but with my kids it's endless thank the lord i'm glad for your kids yeah yeah i know i mean but it's been me it's been really interesting actually because and sorry i go off on tangents but it's just coming to mind like you know and i said people have always said to me oh you you say things that nobody else will say and you do things that nobody else will do i remember going into sproman's school and it was parents

evening and they were telling me that he wasn't quite hitting the mark and his homework wasn't being done very well and what was i doing about it at home? And I'm like, well, I'm not doing anything about it at home. It's his homework. And you're his teacher. I'm not a teacher. I haven't got the patience to teach him. That's not my area of expertise. What I do is hold him emotionally, feed him and give him sort of some like guidelines as how to survive life but teaching him and getting him to do his homework is your job and she looked at me and this teacher actually said to me when i grow up i want to be a parent like you because no parents go in and say this stuff most parents do the homework for the kids if they're struggling or help them and the only thing i would do with roman is help him draw something because he can't draw for Toffee but um ultimately you're on your own mate and I used to say to him you know

you put in what you want out of it and you'll be the person that you have to deal with it if it doesn't go your way you know and so and he just he believed me when I told him, you put the work in, you get the reward. And he did it. So yeah, I guess I'm, yeah, I don't know why. I went off on a tangent there. I do that a lot. No, that's fine. Let's go on another one. What's next?

Where are you going now? What, is it all about Frank? Is there anything else in the pipeline we should know about? I'm doing my magazine. It's a living and breathing thing that will live and breathe for as long as I want it to. I'm doing my magazine it's a living and breathing thing that will live and breathe for as long as I want it to building that I'll be making I'm making documentaries, I set up a production company

about a month ago and I'm working with various production companies on different ideas at the moment just because I want to actually make changes as we discussed earlier so it's not just, I couldn't give a crap about airtime it's not i would i'd actually rather not author these documentaries but people keep saying that i

really need to um so i will um and yeah and just trying to stay healthy focused and um yeah just be happy well there's a much more serious question coming from Annie now. Right. Very, very intense. We always ask the same few questions at the end of an episode. So brace yourself, Melanie. This is very deep and meaningful. Melanie, what's for tea?

I'm going for a curry tonight. Oh, jealous. Where are you going? It's somebody's birthday. I'm a surprise guest, which I'm excited about are you going it's somebody's birthday I'm a surprise guest which I'm excited about that's really funny you're going to burst out of a box or something

no she looked at you like you were on your rocks then I want that to happen no he's just an old friend who I haven't seen for a while

and so we thought it'd be fun not to tell him so we're just going to a local curry house near where he lives and I haven't had a curry for ages so I'm like so excited so that I want one now yeah now before we let you go and plan what you're going to have for your curry you have to imagine your boys a little go back to when they were small and you have to sing us your lullaby Mel what did you use to sing when your boys couldn't sleep oh I don't I didn't sing um I think oh oh actually what did I um the

one with the toes the toe one the toe one it's not really it's not really singing because I wouldn't traumatize my children with my singing but um yeah I used to like the this little piggy because I when because they laugh don't they at the end I know and there's something about little kids toes that are just so chubby and actually edible actually right well on that note about edible toes we'll leave you Melanie Sykes thank you so much for being a brilliant guest and so open and honest and refreshing please don't ever change oh gosh no

I'm too long in the tube for that thank you so much ladies okay have a great day and enjoy that curry bye bye good luck with everything bye bye

bye bye