The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep69: Midwife Sarah Joy Owen on everything you need to know about the COVID-19 vaccine and pregnancy

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

Listen as Netmums resident midwife Sarah Joy Owen talks about the COVID-19 vaccine and why it's safe to have in pregnancy. Plus, new mum Nabila Rehnnuma shares what convinced her to have the jab while she was pregnant... and why she's so glad she did. https://www.rcm.org.uk/coronavirus-hub/covid-vaccines-for-pregnant-women/ https://www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/2021-02-24-combined-info-sheet-and-decision-aid.pdf 

This episode is sponsored by the NHS. Now, a hot topic on our Netmums forum is the COVID-19 vaccine and whether it's okay for pregnant women to have it. Lots of you are asking for the facts and that's something we've got plenty of. For example, here's one. Between May and October last year, 96% of pregnant women who were admitted to hospital with COVID-19 symptoms were unvaccinated. You can book your vaccine online or find a walk-in centre at

nhs.uk forward slash COVID vaccination. Now, on with the show. You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary and I'm Wendy College and together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments with guests who are far more interesting than we are. Welcome to a special episode of Sweat, Snot and Tears. Today we're going to be talking about the Covid vaccine and pregnancy. While the messaging based on hard evidence is that a Covid vaccine is the best way to protect your baby and yourself, hear it here people, it's the best way, we know it's still causing anxiety for some parents to be. So to help give us the perspective of a mum who's been there and also a midwife who's

seeing this issue play out in real time, please would you extend a warm welcome to our very lovely guests, our midwife, Sarah, and our lovely Nabila, who's mum to Maria, who is six months old and being looked after by Gran. So if there's crying in the background, that's where she is. Welcome, both of you. Hi. We like to keep it real here. Now, usually we ask our guests first, have there been any sweat, snot or teary moments in your house today?

But I think on this occasion, it's more apt if I ask you Nabila to tell us about the sweats not and teary moments that you experienced in having to decide whether to have the Covid vaccine in pregnancy and when to have it. So I'm actually a doctor by background so I was invited to have the Covid vaccine quite early on in January 2021 so it was because I was pregnant for the first time and naturally your instinct is to protect your baby. Of course yes. And what prompted me to think about whether to have it was when I was moving on to my A&E block so this is where actually I wouldn't know the COVID status of my patients. So I would be more likely to contract COVID. And I was a bit further along in my pregnancy.

So I actually asked quite a few health care professionals in A&E, Ops and Gyne and GP about whether to have the COVID vaccine. And also read the guidance and sort of the literature surrounding the COVID vaccine and pregnant women. And at that point, there was a bit more evidence about it. And because all the evidence pointed towards actually is safe in pregnancy, thousands of women have had it. So I ended up having it in April in the end. So Sarah can you talk us through in a language that all of us including me can understand? Me and Wendy aren't the sharpest on medical things are we Wendy? So start off by kind of like we know

the rates of stillbirth really sadly and premature birth are higher in pregnant women who get covid aren't they that's right so if you contract covid in pregnancy particularly in the latter stages of your pregnancy your uh your risk of um having um a baby prematurely doubles and um yeah and also your risk of having a stillbirth it's sort of between doubles and triples. Not really. As a midwife, are you actually seeing that? Like this isn't just on paper, is it? This is actually happening to people's real lives, isn't it? Personally, I've looked after several women who've had their babies early and who have had COVID.

And it's really scary because, you know, particularly in the beginning stages of the pandemic you know they couldn't then see their babies their babies were in special care they were on the ward very poorly and it's just awful there and you know it's it's heartbreaking to see that and it's heartbreaking for them that they're so sick and or if they've had their babies and their babies are with them some some women are so poorly that they can't really care for their babies properly either. And again, that's it's such a shame. It's such a precious time. You know, but we know now that lots of women have been vaccinated safely.

I think there's probably about 200,000 women across America and the UK that have been vaccinated. Any new vaccine that comes out is very carefully regulated. People are encouraged to write in. It's got a yellow card system there, encouraged to report any side effects or symptoms, anything untoward, and those cases are then investigated. And so far, all the evidence suggests that the vaccine is safe. It's not a live vaccine, it doesn't cost the placenta but what it does do is allow your body to create antibodies

which do then cost the placentas. That offers your baby protection against Covid as well. One of the other risks of getting Covid in pregnancy is that it actually increases your chance of getting preeclampsia. So what we're not sure of at the moment is whether the COVID creates the preeclampsia, which causes the premature births or the other way around. But certainly the risks are there. And the more we know about COVID, the more we can see the risks for pregnant women and encourage any pregnant women to get vaccinated. Now, it matters that we don't wait doesn't it there's no reason to wait

till a certain week of pregnancy to have it to wait right till the end all this kind of stuff Covid remains highly infectious it's around all of us sadly all of the time still and despite there being light at the end of the tunnel thankfully due to the vaccine and the fact that so many people are vaccinated now it's important that you get a move on and you get a regal on and you get your vaccine, doesn't it? Absolutely. I mean, people are perhaps stopping testing as much. And in a way, that might be even more reason for pregnant women

to get vaccinated because if you're not going to know when people are infectious, if you don't know that people, if you go to the supermarket or somewhere, you could be next door at checkout to somebody who has COVID. So you really need to be extra vigilant, I think, and protect yourself even more so. And you spend so long in hospitals when you're pregnant. Every time you go to a hospital. Mainly to wee in pots is what I remember.

Mainly to wee in pots. Hello, could you wee in a pot, please? I never went anywhere without a wee pot in my handbag when I was pregnant. But anyway, Nabila, let's move away from wee pots. Can you tell us a bit about how you chose who to go to and your chosen sources of info so that if anyone who's expecting a baby is listening, they can kind of copy what you did, I guess. Where did you go and

why I was quite fortunate that I had access to a number of um number of healthcare professionals from different specialities so it just so happened that I was working in Ops and Gynae at the time so I had handy it was destiny I could ask them lovely midwives. I could ask the obstetrician and gynae consultants. And obviously, I'd find out their viewpoint because it was quite a hot topic at the time. And also, because I was moving on to A&E and I had my GP supervisor, who's quite pro-vaccination. So I just asked them, OK, what's your evidence where did you look and um they guided me uh towards um information uh such as in the royal college of obstetrics and gynecology so it's not just for um healthcare professionals to read about guidance there's also

information for patients as well so So there's patient leaflets. So I think as soon as you click on to go on Google and type in Royal College of Zingani and maybe even on the first page, there's a massive section on coronavirus and pregnancy. We're actually, we're big fans of them as well. And the documents that they produce and the information they produce,

we're going to provide links in the show notes so wherever you access this podcast episode scroll down and you'll be able to click on links that will take you directly to those sources of info because sarah i know you're a massive fan of the royal college's info aren't you i am and it's really reassuring i think because not only do the royal colleges of obstetrician and gynecologists and the royal college of midwives provide information for practitioners, they do provide information for members of the public as well. They're very well respected, very well researched organisations and always worth, you know, do your research. You as a parent have to be confident and comfortable in the decisions that you make to protect yourself and to protect your baby.

So go away, do your research, but be clever as to where you do your research. I was about to ask, where's the klaxon going? Where do we go? Don't go there. Yeah, no, you have to be careful. You know, you have to be careful. You have to be clever about this, just as you would, you know, you know if you were researching I don't know what buggy to buy you would go you'd go to netmums you'd go to netmums you would look at sites that compare and contrast you would look at something

that you you would look for information that you could rely on and when you went to buy stuff for your baby you wouldn't you know you would make sure that you were going to somebody reputable to buy stuff you wouldn't just pick it up from anywhere would you because it's your baby and you want to keep your baby safe you want to keep yourself safe so go to the experts would be my advice go to the royal college of obstetricians and gynecologists go to the royal college of midwives go to the nhs websites speak to your midwife, speak to your GP or, you know, if you see a consultant or a registrar during your pregnancy, speak to them as well. Most professionals are more than happy to answer your questions. I was going to say, it can be a bit scary sometimes interacting with medical professionals. I think if you don't work in that world and you're just not used to all the lingo and the jargon and the uniforms and the lanyards.

I love a lanyard. Oh my goodness, I love a lanyard. I think we need one each one. But anyway, we digress. I think the point I'm trying to get across is no one is going to say, go away, I don't want to answer your question. No one is going to say your question is too stupid. No one is going to say, oh my God, where did you read that? Everyone's going to want to help you question no one is going to say your question's too stupid no one is going to say oh my god where did you read that everyone's going to want to help you aren't they absolutely and you know we're people too you know obviously I'm much older than any of you so my childbearing

days are over but you know I have three teenagers in the house they all work I don't want them to get sick but a lot of midwives and doctors are parents themselves they might be pregnant themselves well like Nabila exactly like Nabila so you know talk to us we we will understand and we will be more than happy to help you get the information you need to make a good decision but one question like often when you're asking a medical professional a question if you think your question is a bit out there and you're not sure, it can be hard. So where I'm going with this is one of the things that we've seen slapped across many red top newspapers is that the COVID vaccine can do things that are not necessarily positive to your fertility. So obviously, if you're currently pregnant, you hopefully aren't thinking that

far ahead. But I can see that I would feel embarrassed asking that of a professional because there's a bit of me that knows it's complete nonsense. But again, what if you are worried about that? Reassure me, Sarah, make me feel better. It doesn't affect your fertility, does it? No evidence shows it affects your fertility at all. And there's been a lot of research. There have been a lot of women who are vaccinated. As I said, nearly 200,000. There's another study that looks at 81,000 women.

Wow, those are really robust, big studies, aren't they? Trust me, people, a lot of studies are a lot smaller. A lot smaller. And there's been no evidence that it affects any kind of fertility whether that's somebody who wants to conceive naturally or somebody who's having IVF um there have also been reports that some women have reported their menstrual cycles have changed briefly um after having the vaccine and and indeed that's something that they've reported. And now researchers are

saying we need more studies on that to see how long term that would be. Although all the evidence so far suggests it's very small. So, you know, research is ongoing. It's not, people don't just do a study and say, right, that's the answer. We don't need to do any more. We're constantly looking at things. When I say we, obviously not me. Very clever people, scientists are looking at these things. Clever people like you, Sarah. Now, back to the COVID-19 vaccine. We want everyone to have a healthy pregnancy. But unfortunately, we know that being pregnant puts you at greater risk of getting seriously ill with COVID-19. And sadly, that's not all. Getting COVID in pregnancy could also cause

complications, including your baby being born prematurely. The best way to protect yourself and your baby is by having the COVID-19 jab. The good news is you don't need to wait until your baby arrives to have your vaccine or booster. It's safe to have at any stage of your pregnancy. You can book in at nhs.uk forward slash COVID vaccination. Now on with the show. Now, Wendy, what did you want to ask? So I'm going to ask you to share your kind of final message for women who are pregnant right now, ladies. So Nabila first, if there is a pregnant woman listening here and she's umming and she's ahhing and she's worried about having the vaccine what would you say to her I would say to uh not delay it go for the Covid vaccination and if you are anxious at all

speak to your GP about it speak to your midwives as healthcare professionals we're more than happy to help um and it's it's okay to also do your homework so you you're able to reassure yourself but i'll say definitely uh get it because it'll give you peace of mind uh when you're going out and about that you've actually done everything you can to protect yourself and also uh your unborn child and sarah there's a scary stat screaming out at me from the research we've done, which is that almost 98% of women admitted to hospital with COVID when they were pregnant had not been vaccinated. So with that little nugget of slightly scariness ringing in our ears, what's your advice, please? Have the vaccination. It is honestly the best way to protect you and your baby from covid um you know we know that covid can affect pregnant women quite

profoundly um it can bring about potentially um very serious conditions it can increase your risk of stillbirth it can increase your risk of having your baby early. So have the vaccine. And as Nabila said, if you're concerned, speak to your midwife, speak to your doctor, go to recognised professional bodies and do some research there and get it done. And in fact, lots of hospitals offer vaccination clinics as well. So I know Nabila was saying that she wanted to have her vaccination at a hospital so she was in the right place, should anything happen. Not that it did, but certainly at my trust, in my hospital, we offer vaccination clinics.

And the people doing the vaccines are mostly healthcare professionals. I had mine done by the head of midwifery, actually, which was quite nice. That's nice. That is nice, isn't it? Yeah. As did my mother-in-law. So, you know, there are lots of people out there who are happy to chat and to answer your questions. We want you to be safe, but we also want you to be confident

in the decision you're making as well because, you know, you are protective of yourself and you are protective of your baby, and that's a good thing. We want to encourage that. And, Sarah, does it matter which vaccine you have? No, it doesn't. Both Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are safe for women to have in pregnancy, whether that's the first or second vaccine you have or your booster. That's really good to know. Well, thank you,

ladies. It's been an absolute pleasure. Nabila, you can go and find Maria and check that the aunts and the grannies have been looking after her. Yeah, we haven't heard a peep. I'm sure they've been doing a great job. Sarah, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and kindness. I always think you're such a lovely, kind middle wife. Oh, thank you. I hope. Well, you know, it's a lovely it it's the best job, really. It's such a privilege to be with families that's such a fantastic part of their lives that you kind of can't help but be happy and kind. And it's just, it's amazing. I wish she'd been my midwife, Sarah.

You can always have another one, Wendy. I'd be happy. No, she's not allowed. She needs to stay on the podcast. Thank you very much. No, I'd also, I'd end up divorced. It wouldn't happen. And on that note, ladies and gents, we shall leave you. Go and get your vaccine. Yes. Go and get your vaccine. Thank you. Bye-bye.