The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep80: Gabby Logan on being middle aged and unashamed

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Gabby Logan talks to Annie and Wendy about the permanently empty fridge that comes with having teenagers, and managing midlife...without the crisis! Gabby has recently launched a brand new series of her podcast 'The Mid.Point'.

This episode is sponsored by Fry's Family Foods to celebrate the launch of their new tea time saviour, the totally delicious and 100% vegan Stars and Moons. The breaded shapes are a great source of fibre and protein, ideal if you want more meat-free meals for the kids. They cook from the freezer in just 10 minutes, which means I already love them. A fuss-free kids tea time that you know they'll polish off, yes please. Now, on with the show. You're listening to sweat snot and

tears brought to you by netmums i'm annie o'leary and i'm wendy college and together we talk about all of this week's sweaty snotty and tearful parenting moments with guests who are far more interesting than we are on this week's show you've got to show them that you can make mistakes and own those mistakes because they're going to have to do that as well so nobody likes admitting they they're wrong, do they? So, but for them, that's really empowering. I think when they're teenagers to see you say, do you know what? I wasn't right about that. Or yep, you can go to that party and come back at midnight. That's fine. That's absolutely fine. And trust them that they're going to make good decisions at that party, you know, and then when they don't, it's them saying, yeah, I shouldn't have done that.

Good morning and welcome to another episode of Sweats, Knots and Tears. Now, first of all, I'm a bit solo this morning because it's going to be one of those mornings. Annie is currently stuck in traffic. So at some point on this pod, I'm hoping she'll join us. She might not. And I was going to kick off by having a moan at Annie because the juggle this morning has been real. One of my kids is having anxiety attacks about her first ever school residential. The other is weeping in the classroom because her dad is away. And the only person who can walk the dog in our house, who is me, has done her back in. So I was going to say help me Annie, but I can't because she's not here.

So instead, help me Gabby Logan, what do I do? Good morning. Well, it sounds not massively dissimilar to my house this morning. My husband's also away and the kids have to be in the car by 7.20 to get to the bus. Otherwise, I've got an hour and a half round trips to him to school. um at the moment that I was still shouting at my son for having no trousers on and five minutes to get in the car and hadn't had any breakfast and somebody arrived at the gate with a massive load of tiles and uh the dogs were barking because they hadn't been fed and so then I had to kind of get this guy positioned him where he needed to be to offload the tiles because the builders were arriving and then at that moment the gardener

arrived as well it was literally like five minutes of utter madness and then we got in the car my son said I don't know why you stress so much about leaving on time uh which at that moment had it not been kind of the fact that I was driving a car I think I'd have turned around and given them a right good kind of apart from the fact he's six foot six so no I wouldn't actually have slapped him um but I was I was kind of yeah very much the same. And then I kind of drove back from the top of the bus thinking, oh, I didn't need to be quite so stressed. You've got twins, haven't you? How old are they now?

Yeah, they are 16. They've just done their mock, A-level mocks. They're 17 in July. Oh, wow. So, yeah, we're in the final run, the home run, really, with school. We've got another year to go. How are the teen years, Gabby? I'm kind of dreading

them I've got 10 and a six-year-old and they are delightful and deranged in equal measure is does it get better does it get worse uh definitely different I would say the challenges are different and um the thing about babies is actually there's loads and loads of advice about, you know, different ways to potty train, different ways to wean, different ways to kind of, you know, get sleep regulated. There's all kinds of different schools of thought and something will work for you. With teenagers, no two are the same in terms of the challenges and the dynamics that they kind of the people that they're with. And so and then, you know, that whole kind of, you're never as happy as your, you're only as happy as your least happy child

is never more true in the teenage years. Because, you know, one will have it all going on, everything will be great. And then the other one will have, you know, kind of minor existential crisis. And so you're kind of swinging emotionally and trying to keep a balance of things. On the one hand, I think it is the most challenging period of parenting

and the other is the most rewarding. So I think that's kind of, I'm sorry that doesn't help very much but I think it's it's incredibly um it's an exhilarating kind of roller coaster ride it must be weird now that your son is bigger than you well he's been bigger than me since I was 11 since he was 11 and well he's six foot six my son so he's been bigger than my husband for the last three years as well so yeah that bit of it that physical part of it happened quite early in terms of that feeling of oh my gosh we've got this kind of like mini man in the house um and um yeah now he's just good for picking me up and giving me a back crack if i want one or um he does have ginormous hands so he'll come and i'll say i've got a knot here and he'll come and you know put his big thumbs in there and give you a really good little massage that's quite handy

his ginormous size what it's not handy is keeping a full fridge i mean he just plows through food and it is i look at a fridge and think it's full on a saturday morning and by sunday evening i i you know i'm like where did they all go like last sunday i was working i was doing the women's fa cup final i knew there was loads of meat in because we were going to have a barbecue and I bought some fish as well and various other things and when I got back I said Kenny was putting this food out because he put the barbecue on I said where are the sausages and he'd eaten eight sausages as a snack earlier in the day so he just they just he just put them in the oven on his own and that was it you know I can get one of those whole roasted chickens you know the ones that are already pre-cooked you just have that as a snack so it is um that bit

I'm I'm I don't want to push them out of the house I don't want them particularly to leave home but I am looking forward to not and it's not even I mean the expense is one thing it's just the constant visiting of the supermarket you know no one needs that why don't you just get a delivery it doesn't make any difference mum there's like it just doesn't you know you still have to think to do the delivery it's just the constant is there enough food and he's but the way he describes it to me because he does a lot of sport you know he'll say mom I get hungry in the night I wake up at three sometimes and I'm hungry um and I think as a middle-aged woman I can't I'd love to be that hungry. Do you know, my husband remembers when he's talking about kind of his teen years, he says his resounding memory of his teen years is being hungry.

I think boys are just hungry. Yeah, and that's why I try and fill him up on protein and things, as well as slow-releasing carbohydrates, so that it's not just quick-fix food. That's what I try to explain to him. If you put sweet snacks down your throat that you think are giving you energy, an hour later you're going to be hungry again. So can't always trying to you know give him good messages about food he's slightly getting it he's slightly getting it um he had some overnight oats this morning for breakfast but only because it was a hurry and he was normally to have eggs and then I'm interested to learn if he's actually

gone a bit longer if they've lasted a bit longer he'll tell tell me no doubt. Or his GoHenry card will ping up that he's in the local Tesco's at break time, you know. Now, you always strike me, Gabby, as someone who's kind of got it sorted. I don't know why, but you just always seem, obviously, when I see you, you're presenting, you seem like you've got this work-life mum balance business sorted. And then you did some Wim Hofing and now you seem to me like superwoman. So I think the thing about the work-life mum balance is recognising that you'll never get it sorted. And I think when you realise that at some stage

that you think I'm never actually going to get this perfectly in balance, then you cut yourself some slack about it, you know? So I said to my daughter yesterday, just funny enough, last night we were having a chat and I said because I've taken on quite a lot of things at the moment that um just extra kind of uh like charitable things and you know chairing and things like that that take up extra time that you don't see on the telly and things but it just takes time and I said to my daughter do you feel like I'm here enough at the moment

and um and she was like yeah you'll hear loads at the moment you know it's different when you go away for a few weeks so you know you're always kind of thinking about whether or not that you're present are you present enough and you know is there you know I mean I do see I'm very lucky because I get to work from home a lot as well I do see a lot of my family I'm not having to go into an office all day long and I think that is one thing that you know when the kids were little I was very lucky because although you'd see me on the telly then I might be prepping at home for three days and you know so so sorry hello blame my husband's gammy lumpy leg we didn't tell anyone why you weren't here I just said you were stuck in traffic

sorry it was a hospital dash for the husband yeah now the image of a gammy leg annie meet gabby gabby meet annie hi hi nice to meet you so i was just about to ask gabby to basically i am now a little bit addicted to the man that is whim and i need you to tell me my whole family are addicted was it as amazing as it looked and has changed you as a person and as a mum? It seems like it might have done. I feel changed just from watching the show. It does have a profound effect going through all of that. And we were really lucky, I think, as a group, we got on very well, which I think you can see in the show. And we also, I think, realised there were enough of us in there who were a bit older, myself and Tamsin, maybe Patrice,

Alfie, who realised that this is a unique experience. And although some days things are going to be really challenging, we wanted to really live it every day and not be wishing it away and trying to get to the end of it. Do you know what I mean? And we wanted to really absorb it all. And we made that as a concerted kind of decision and as a conversation we had out loud early on in the process. So I think that really gave us a strength, actually, because sometimes when you're in an uncomfortable position, you're just thinking, when this ends, I know I'll appreciate it, but right now I'm not enjoying it. And actually, we really enjoyed it, really embraced it.

He was obviously a huge factor in that win. He's an incredible, I think he really came into his own on the final episode. I won't spoil it if people haven't seen it yet, or if you want to catch up on iPlayer. I've recorded it. So ladies and gents listening, the final episode was on TV last night, but it's at nine, which is after my children's bedtimes, and they're obsessed with it as well.

So we're all going to sit down and watch it tonight. A lot of people have been watching it actually the day after. It's interesting because my builder's in today, and I've known him for about 20 years, and he said, don't tell me, don't tell me, I haven't watched it yet. See, I'm up to the one where you're doing the swim under the ice. Under. Oh, I found that so stressful to watch.

And the bit, I've only got to the bit where basically you all thought Wim had got lost or was dead. Because he just, he kept going and didn't come up. So then the kids needed, you know, I'm watching it. Go to bed. What I love is hearing that kids are watching it as well. A lot of my friends with younger kids are really enjoying it. They're so impressed that I'm talking to you today. They're like, huh, huh. I'm like, yeah, huh. It's so lovely because, you know, when you do sport, people connect with you in a different way.

You know, people come up to me and ask me if Everton are going to survive in the Premier League or they come up and talk about, you know, some rugby match. And this has been such a lovely thing. People come, you know, when I get my local supermarket and they know we're just discussing by the way about how much my son eats and they know me very well in there anyway but all the the women in there keep coming up going like the people that work there going oh my god i can't believe the ice oh my god i can't believe this um and it's you know the thing i really loved about the show two things that made me really want to do it one it wasn't a competition so I knew it would have a different dynamic it wasn't going to be I'm going to use Professor Green's phrase here he said it was rehabilitation not humiliation and um and I think that was a really important thing for me that we were going to come through this without having to go kind of

do things that made us you know kind of people laugh at us or people be cruel about us to try and get us you know over the line of winning so I don't want to win something it changes the edit doesn't it if you're not being pitted against each other it's a very different watch yeah it changes the dynamic and the narrative yeah and it kind of cheap in a way it sort of lessens it like this was about what this is what I've taken from it it was about you all growing and finding something within yourself that you probably couldn't put your finger on before and if there's been a competitive element to that it kind of would have not allowed that to happen I think yeah I agree with you completely and I was I did an interview actually with Five Live um ahead of the last episode and um Claire McDonald the um the

presenter said do you think this will change kind of the way commissioners look at these kinds of shows? And I said, yeah, I hope I hope so, because I think it proves that you can entertain without having that element to it. I mean, commercial channels want people to vote so they can make money, obviously. So there's that there's that element to it. But I think in a way that this show is kind of the very best of what the BBC does, because it was informative, educational, entertaining. It had all those pillars, I think, to it. And we didn't know at the beginning what it was going to be. But it's nice because if what happens in those competitive shows

is sometimes the person you really like gets booted out halfway through and then you don't want to watch in the same way. So you guys were all still there, freezing your tits off quite merrily for the whole time has it changed like has it you know are there things that you learned that you want to share with the kids yeah I mean my kids already have they watched yeah yeah they have what did they think they were really like my daughter last night just kind of when I oh I'm not going to talk spoil it but you know when I was doing it she got quite emotional you quite emotional, you know, and they'd both been the first episode in particular and the second episode, I think they were all really shocked

because they didn't know what it was. I was trying to, I did tell them about it, obviously, when I came back. It must be hard to convey because it's quite strange. It's quite strange. They must think you're absolutely badass after this, even more than they did already. Yeah, I think they were that was funny when I first came back we talked about being changed I definitely felt different and I felt

empowered and felt a kind of renewed energy then yeah yeah and then but then occasionally they'll say to me if I'm obviously we're just just discussing the morning kind of hustle this morning you know the kind of usual juggle and occasionally they'll say I think you need to go back to Italy for a few weeks mom yeah. Yeah. It's just wearing off now. Have you carried it on? Yeah. Cold showering. And my husband now is really addicted to cold showers. And what about the breath? The breathing. I did a big breathing thing on Saturday. Friday night, we were doing a charity

event and I was absolutely shattered. I'd had a really busy week. I thought, I don't want to have a nap. I'm going to go do some breathing. And I'm not just saying that. I woke up from the breathing. I came around from the breathing. I felt like I'd had 10 hours sleep. It was so restorative. It really does energize you. Yeah, because that was the thing I took from watching you all, was that almost the most transformative experiences you had were in those lying down, breathing things. It seemed to really tap into something very emotional for you particularly around your brother and grief did you think it would take you there no I didn't know and it was I mean the first time we did it it was that was very much kind of about my brother and I was

you know grief isn't something that just disappears forever even though he's been gone 30 years now 30 years next week, it sometimes just kind of blindsides you and comes along again into your life, you know, and something just triggers. And I think that's because grief, as somebody once very wise said, grief is love with nowhere to go. And that doesn't mean that you completely stop loving that part. You can't, even though the passage of time means that you no longer miss them in the same way, because you haven't got their physical presence. But it didn't surprise me because it's so deeply emotional but what did surprise me was what happened with Tamsin you know I had this like unbelievable feeling of her mum and you hadn't known her mum had you no I didn't know Tamsin until the week before and I only

briefly in passing had she mentioned that her mum the reason that she was worried about the show personally was because her mum had died very suddenly and she was concerned about the ice was going to affect her and was she, you know, was she going to leave her kids suddenly? And that was the only thing I knew. And then, I mean, I couldn't even see, it was this unbelievable feeling of love. Like if you could actually put love in a box, you know, and it was a tangible thing. And I just went over to her and I said, your mum's here and she's just sending you all this love and she said I know and we both had this massive hug and I think that was such a bonding thing for Tamsin and I because we didn't know each other really but there was this real connection then um I think a trust as well and you know I am I did

have very very vivid uh kind of images coming into my mind whenever I was doing the breathing and very very visceral kind of physical feelings and you know it was really um because that was definitely the most um powerful thing I would say out of everything it's mind-blowing it's absolutely mind-blowing I really want to go and live with Wim Hof I don't know I realize how incredibly lucky we are to have that time with him you know it's just you know if I never I mean he sent me a lovely message the other day but if I never see him again um then I'm just that's a special period you know that we we all had. Absolutely. So who are your kind of like go-to mums? Are they the mums that you knew when your kids were in ct are they like way back when have you got that mum support network well i've got um so my best friend um had three children

in under 14 months by accident so she had she got pregnant ouch yeah she got pregnant without um definitely wasn't planned first baby well not none of them were she'd only been together with uh her now husband for about a year at that point I think and um and they got pregnant and my goddaughter was born and then she accidentally got pregnant again within three months and she had twin girls um a year so I so she had twin girls a year. Oh, Lordy, Lord. So she had Ava and Darcy, the twins, a year before I had Ruben and Lois. She didn't know I was going through IVF at that point because I decided not to tell anybody I was going through IVF. Even your good friends? Yeah, because I just didn't want to.

If I was going to go do it five, six times, I just didn't want it to become my thing. But everybody only talked to me about that. So I thought, let's see how this one goes. Was that hard, though, not having someone to rely on in that way well I had Kenny I had Kenny and I think I thought that if it didn't then maybe I would after that but I wanted to see how the first round went so anyway she didn't know and when I go around her house you can imagine what that was like you know it was chaos central so I was kind of like I'm not going to throw my issues into the mix here because her husband was an actor and he decided to take a play somewhere abroad so she was she was at home with these all these babies so you can imagine having her

was a bit of an oracle you know in terms of uh going to her to ask questions and then I had another friend who had who's now got four kids and at that point she had two and uh she was Jane she's called and so I Jane was just Mrs NCT knew everything. And she'd come around and say, I hope you don't mind me saying, but I think Lois, the reason why she's waking up is she needs an extra blanket. Or she just, she was just like, say what you like. Just tell me what you want. Yeah, tell me. I used to say to her later in life, I'm going to write a book called Just Ask Jane,

because I'd bring her up and say, Ruben hasn't pooed for three days. Is that OK? What should I do? Because I was kind of like, I don't care about asking for help because that is that okay what should I do um because I was kind of like I don't care about asking for help because I don't know I really don't know and she you're not born knowing it all are you no exactly and we were just talking about the challenge of teenage years which again it's a different set of issues so actually your your focal points and your questions might or people that you refer to might be quite different then because Kerry for

example my friend with the three girls, hasn't got a boy. So I wouldn't necessarily go to her and say, you know, Ruben's done this. Is this normal for a teenager? Because she wouldn't know, you know. So then you kind of have different friends who go, well, yeah, my son, you know, he went through that phase

or whatever it is that you're, you know, concerned about. Has there been a phase that you've loved more than the others? Like, are you a baby woman, a woman are you loving the teens I I love I do love now in the same way that I love and hate a roller coaster ride do you know what I mean is that that's what the moment feels like with the teen years but the that I think it was like six to say 11 where you are a god a hero you can do no wrong you, that period where they still think that you have all the answers and, you know, you try occasionally to show them you are fallible

because you don't want them putting you on too high a pedestal, but they just have that amazing kind of, my husband would call it respect. And I always say to him, you can't call it respect because it sounds, but you know, when they just feel so beholden to you and they love being with you, they want to go everywhere with you and then suddenly there comes a stage where they're not so keen to do everything

with you and then you have to take your own ego out of that yeah you kind of go uh no it's not about me but you know they um accept holidays they still like doing that you know which is obviously they want somebody to pay for their holidays but uh no i do i do enjoy now it's just going too quickly now back to fries family foods totally tasty stars and moons now i don't know about you but i'm always looking for easy ways to feed my kids more plant-based meals and these fun vetted shapes are just the job a source of protein and fiber they make a brilliant swap for the usual chicken nuggets they're also netmums recommended which I say so myself, is kind of a big deal. In a poll of 50 Netmums members, 98% said they'd recommend Fries, Moons and Stars to friends and family. That's good enough for me.

Pick up a pack of Fries, Stars and Moons from Iceland or the food warehouse. Now, back to the guest. Do you feel like, do you think things like doing whim and I know you've got your podcast now and are you do you feel like you're reclaiming a bit more Gabby now that they're getting older do you think that's the natural shift that's occurring for you yeah I think so I think I'm kind of almost subconsciously preparing myself by doing those kinds of things because we had um a chat about this with a friend the other day about that kind of divergent goals that couples sometimes find out they've got when

you know when their kids leave home and they suddenly go oh I didn't know you were going to go to Florence for a year to do art what I didn't know you were going to go yeah hang on why are you why are you going up on a boat in Bali? So I think, you know, obviously keeping that conversation alive is something that we've been really mindful of, but also not losing, you know, who you are, because obviously you're going to be back with you again, aren't you? I mean, the I, you know, the person, because you spend so much of your time thinking about them and thinking about what they're doing and how they they're you know everything the minutiae of life isn't it that you just you know constantly on top of and you're trying to pull back a bit to let them make mistakes to let them start to you know reclaim or claim their own independence and watching them kind of do things where you think oh no i would have done it that way but i'm going to let you

do it this way so that we can you know that must that's the bit i'm going to find really hard is keeping my trap shut it's really it's really hard it's really hard and I've made lots of mistakes where you I haven't bit my tongue and you know and I have said things and then one of us Kenny and I I wouldn't say either of us are always one way or the other we both kind of get it right and wrong and the other one recognizes that and goes come and have a word you know go back just apologize about that you know because that's the thing as well it's when I I said before, about 11 to 6 to 11, being that stage where they just think you're amazing, you've got to show them that you can make mistakes and own those mistakes, because they're going to have to do that as well. So that's quite hard, you know,

because nobody likes admitting they're wrong, do they? So but for them, that's really empowering, I think, when they're teenagers to see you say, do you know what, I wasn't wasn't right about that or yep you can go to that party and come back at midnight that's fine that's absolutely fine you know um and and and trust them that they're going to make good decisions at that party you know um and then when they don't if they make a you know a slip up it's them a few days later saying yeah I shouldn't have done that or that meant I didn't do as well in that exam because I didn't revise as hard as you you know suggested I should or whatever the thing is um but yeah it is tricky especially I mean you know I am a self-confessed control freak so my name's Gabby and I am a control freak. Now I want to talk to you about this podcast of yours because as two women approaching said midpoint and what

are we counting as the midpoint is there a number well at the beginning of the um podcast i researched this and the economic and social research council said midlife is 38 to 54 um and anybody in their 30s who hears that bulks what I'm not in midlife yet uh yeah but I think um see women I think associate it with perimenopause and menopause and the physical changes men not so much they don't kind of see that physical thing as being the midlife it's almost like a state of mind I think from my learnings you know I've done about 40 episodes now so um so yeah I kind of feel like anybody in their late 30s can come on the podcast in midpoint. And I've actually gone up to Richard Madeley. What's he, 66?

Because I thought it's quite good having a guest who can look back and say, oh, and he was really honest about Judy, his wife, Judy Finnegan's menopause and how that affected them. And I really like talking to husbands and partners about that because I think that's a really important conversation. Menopause is a hot topic at the moment. And as someone who is... No pun intended. No pun intended. I'm 43, so I'm definitely in your midpoint. And I just feel like we might get a little bit more slack cut than even you know people did

five years ago women are talking about menopause they're understanding carry menopause and men actually give a shit for once yeah yeah we're so fortunate to be alive right now yeah definitely when you think about the amount of women who must have just kind of moved away from their careers or left marriages, you know, all those things because of a lack of support, whether it was an understanding about HRT or availability or conversations about symptoms that they perhaps didn't associate with menopause, you know, something like 34 recognised symptoms that range from, you know, brain fog and hot flushes are the kind of most commonly known things. But there's all sorts of stuff that people don't realise could be that.

And they think it's something else or they get prescribed medicine for something that's not there. So that and also you probably know this already, but only at the moment, 60% of medical schools actually teach their doctors about the menopause so there's campaign to increase that to 100% funnily enough because we believe we believe that all doctors should have some knowledge about the menopause and not just be reliant on flicking through a textbook on their desk if somebody comes in you know so I think doctors want to it's not their fault that that's what the curriculum has been you know that's what their courses have had so so who's been your favorite guest so far if you have oh you can't well not favorite because you love them or maybe most surprising or the one that you learned the most from everybody's when I first started the whole thing I had in my mind that I

wanted to motivate people to not feel beige and middle-aged, not feel that they couldn't pursue their dreams and goals. And so it was more about that at the very beginning. And so the first guests I kind of chose people had done big things in that period of life. So John Bishop was my first guest because at 40, he was still selling pharmaceutical drugs. At 42, he was selling out Echo Arena in Liverpool, you know. And so I kind of liked the idea that don't, you know, don't just park your goals because you've turned 40. Don't just park your dreams. And then Denise Lewis was on, one of my colleagues at BBC Sport, obviously Olympic gold medalist who had her fourth baby at 47 because she was desperate. That wasn't an accident. She was desperate to have another child and went through a lot to get her her final child and I think that's not always possible for people but I think that life kind of shift as well when you have a baby a bit later when you've already got you know family was interesting because normally it's men who do that normally you meet like Jimmy Carr's been on you

know he had his first baby at 50 well he didn't did he you know um so I liked kind of those those guests that were doing different things Richard Osman Osman, a brilliant guest, because he was at the time single. I think he's got a girlfriend now and grown up kids. And then he just started his writing career, basically. And his first book was out. And now he's one of the best editors in the world. And he hadn't written a book before then. Obviously, he was a clever guy doing very well in telly.

But I liked that kind of the idea of just taking a goal or a dream and just taking that first step and hopefully that was giving people inspiration so um yeah it really is hard to and then there's people like Claudia Winckelman who came on and just owned getting older absolutely loves you know can't wait to be in her 60s is delighted that she doesn't have to go to nightclubs anymore who do you want on the pod? Well, I'd love to have a couple who chat honestly about kind of each other in midlife, you know. And so I thought that ideal couple would be David and Victoria Beckham.

But then somebody pointed out to me, they probably don't even realise they're in midlife because they're kind of, you know, they're so super rich and fabulous that ageing will never come. Yeah. So I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of that um so um I don't know from the US I'd quite like Gwyneth Paltrow on um just because she'd be quite an interesting midlifer very um and then I'd quite like I'd quite like um

I'd quite like maybe somebody like Michelle Obama from the States she'd be quite good oh yeah that she was who came in my mind when Wendy asked the question actually yeah it's because I'd quite like maybe somebody like Michelle Obama from the States. She'd be quite good. Oh, yeah. She was who came in my mind when Wendy asked the question, actually. Yeah, it's because that's who you want on this pod. Have Michelle and Barack. Wouldn't that be a couple to have? That would be the dream couple. Yeah, I'm going to do my very best to somehow bump into them somewhere

and get them to come on the pod. You found your inner steel with Wim Hof you have uh sieged into a whole new career almost with your amazing podcast um you're a mum of teens what could possibly be next well obviously I want to keep on doing the sport that I do I love and it's that takes up a lot of my time and this summer we've got the women's euros we've got the Commonwealth Games so that's pretty much my time is pretty much blocked booked up for a few months but i've written a book which is out in october so i imagine i'll have to do quite a bit of publicity for that in september and that was um a real um i'm really proud of getting it done because i've

wanted to do it for a long time and i did it in lockdown didn't do anything really with it for about a year and then um I finally did finally took it out there and kind of because it's very personal isn't it to kind of when you write a memoir you don't not quite sure I was ready to share it you know and spent a lot of the time when I was in the tent actually in Italy doing Wim Hof worrying about it a bit you know and thinking about that. Did you wrestle did you wrestle with how candid to be were you like oh I'm not going to share that bit of me oh do I want that bit out there I did um and there are things that I've definitely there's a lot of stuff I haven't um I wanted to be able to everything I wrote I thought I've got to be able to have

um an honest conversation with that person and stand up obviously kind of what I've said and I wanted a reason to tell that story there has to be a purpose to it not just gratuitous you know yeah not just vomiting up everything's ever happened yeah yeah and and a purpose for for writing you know because you um it's amazing how much I got to about 100,000 words there was so much more stuff that I wanted to talk about um but I just didn't have room left in the book so um did it give you a fresh perspective on your life and yourself actually writing it all down yeah it was quite an interesting process because my kids were on zoom school at the time in early lockdown we'd have our working day but luckily for me they were 15 so they were just getting on with it and then we'd all come together either lunchtime or dinner and they could tell kind of the day of writing that they'd be like

oh was today tough because I'd be a bit quiet so yeah it was very um uh cathartic in lots of ways and emotional to write, dig in. Did it make you see anything differently? Yes, because I was writing it with that perspective in my mind, thinking, why am I telling this story? And then that made me question kind of my motives to stay at that time. And what was, you know, an owning bad behaviour, do you know what I mean? That's tough, Gabby, that's tough gaby that's yeah yeah it was quite um i can't imagine you being bad well you know things that you think that was quite i shouldn't have that was a bit hurtful i shouldn't have done that you know and

and then having to when the lawyers come back and they say you've got to send it to these people to make sure they're okay with it oh shit you've got to do that i didn't know you had to do that really unless you want to get sued when your book gets published yeah well exactly and you've got to get them to sign off that they're happy it was mainly family because most of the stories were kind of to do with that but there were a couple of people they didn't and I was quite surprised because like one of them was an ex-boyfriend who was who only comes out of it in glowing terms because he was when my brother died he was the next boyfriend I had and and um and he was in the perfect kind of boyfriend for three years in my life and um but I'd kind of told some really

personal stories about um things that happened to us and they were like no that's fine I was like I better just tell him out of kind of you know I felt like I should let him know okay so they don't send it to everyone there There's just certain things. No, obviously the lawyer picks out things that they think might potentially have a case for somebody. So if you snag off a mum at the school gates, it might get sent to someone. Yeah, none of that going on.

But I suppose it's a right to reply as well. So yeah, it's been quite... And when that lawyer's document came back to me, I was quite surprised at how much she was questioning. I was like, oh, God, this is making me feel sick. I want to read it now. Can we get the box copy, please? Yeah, of course. I'll make sure you get one. When's it out? October, did you say?

Yeah, October, October the 12th. It's out. It's the 11th. Now, the next question I was going to ask you might be slightly different because normally we ask our guests what's for tea but what you missed earlier Annie is that often whatever is for tea has already been eaten by Gabby's six foot six rugby playing son he sounds like my brother so my brother is now is very was is very sporty and is now 42 and he has a key to my mum's house still and my mum says she knows if he's been because the fridge is empty at 42 so she can come back and it's like where's where's all my food gone so what was for tea and what's he eaten that should have been for tea and who's cooking well um well tonight actually believe it or not we are

going to the theatre as part of my birthday present so uh so so we'll have to pick up some food in town before we go to the theatre uh but if it was say last night let's do last night's tea I made at request of daughter she always texts me what she found I don't suppose you fancy doing a risotto tonight she'll say you're like her private chef I don't suppose you fancy doing a risotto tonight, she'll say. You're like her private chef. I know. I made a delicious mushroom risotto, which I like making things like that because then there's always a bit of leftover, which said son can then go and heat up for himself at nine o'clock for his second dinner. So yeah, I did a really nice risotto last night and I had to do lamb steaks for him as well as that because that wouldn't be enough risotto. I mean, the bowl

of risotto for me is so filling. And my daughter, quite happy with that but he needed to have more protein this all sounds very good he sounds so like my brother sometimes you find my brother be like so what you're doing is I'm just going to the butcher I'm just going to pick up um a rib of beef and you're like oh cool he's coming over he's like oh no one I'm sure my son's my son's favorite expression when we go for something like a Japanese or something where you have collective food, he'll say, where you're not ordering individual meals, he'll say, just make sure you over order. Make sure you over order. Because you can see the waitresses or waiters kind of looking at you going, are you sure you're going to eat all this? And I just, trust me, I'll say it's fine.

Yes. Yes, we are. But I like now in this country, there's a culture now growing like America where you can take food home as well which um you know so I don't feel too bad we can keep it for later I hate wasting food yeah we always joke that my brother is part man part Labrador because he just just there's no end isn't it red setters that are supposed to be able to they would never stop red setters would eat until they die they've got no off button in their brain yeah yeah we've got a labradoodle and she's definitely more labrador than doodle in fact she didn't doodle at all she looks like a labrador and um and she has been known to um it we used to have we had to kind

of secure everywhere on our kind of like house so that she couldn't get into the road because it was a little lane it's not busy road it wasn't the traffic so much it was just she'd find where there was a building site on the road where anybody was getting any work done and she'd just go and she was almost like her body clock went to 12 o'clock I better go get the sandwiches and she'd just go and sit with the builders and they'd throw her the end of their sandwiches and she was putting well we didn't know she was doing this and she was putting weight on why is she putting weight on she does two walks a day she's got really you know we really measure her food and we just and then somebody said to us on the road, oh, there's Maggie.

She comes down, eats all our sandwiches. We're right. That'll be it then. When we go to the beach, we've got a retriever. When we go to the beach, he goes along the beach and just sits and begs at people's lunches, especially if they're eating pasties. And he just sits there like this, looking adorable.

And they feed him pasty. And it's like, he's only got three legs he's going to be fat anyway he can't eat pasties well the boxer doesn't even i've got an older one the box is nearly 11 and he doesn't do that he's not a beggar really unless there's sizzling meat on and then he gets up out of his bed because he can hear it and he kind of like pads over to you but he's not that bad there is something in the breeds definitely isn't there that is a greedy greedy dogs right annie over to you you get the joy of the last question okay gabby i swear we haven't created this question to make you feel uncomfortable we ask it of everybody

please really imagine that you're tucking wendy and i into bed and that we can't sleep and sing us the lullaby you would have sung your children oh no it's really um i used to sing danny boy to them oh don't because i'll cry it's the most tear-jerking song on the planet and also my brother was called daniel so they used to love i know they used to love me singing it to them i don't know the words properly so I just make up things so I'd sing oh Danny boy the lights and it's the pipes but I'd say the lights the lights are calling and then I turn the lights off and um from field to field and glen to glen and then I'd be stroking her head oh Danny boy and then just when she'd like be looking like she was asleep she'd go one more verse so that was that was uh would it not make

you sad though singing your brother yeah it did but in a kind of in that melancholy way where you feel sad but happy and you're kind of you know you're remembering but i'm nice that you're including him yeah well they always wanted to know about him and so they would you know you know when children are little they have sometimes really incredible empathy and really they really connect with with things and I remember my daughter um she was about five and she was lying on my mum's bed my mum was getting ready to go out and my mum was babysitting or they were staying with my mum or something and she reached across to my brother's mass card that you give out when you know a funeral was still next to my mum's bed and she was reading it

and she said oh Nana you must I can't believe that he was only 16 15 he was when he died she can't believe he was only 15 when he died she said then he looked at my mum and she just went that must have been so sad for you but in a kind of way that was so connected to my mum that my mum just burst into tears because you know she said I just didn't expect her to understand what you know what that felt like and then so when they were little it was actually quite nice to bring him into their lives because you know they there's an uncle that they never had but they wanted to know about and he's still their uncle so and there's strong resemblance of all the boys in our family have quite a strong resemblance as well. Physical resemblance. That's a lovely note for this to end on. Right. Thank you, Gabby, for being an amazing guest. I'm sorry I was late.

No, don't worry. It was quite dramatic. I'm sorry I told you all of my woes in the first three minutes of the podcast. You missed my woes, Annie. I'm glad that my woes this morning were quite similar to yours and it is always when they're away isn't it Kenny's decided very last minute he's a Rangers fan so he's hopped on a plane this morning to go to Spain to watch Rangers tonight and flying back tomorrow and and we've got this super super busy week it's mad and I could really do with him being here today but I was like no you've got to go you've got to go. You've got to go. It only happens once in a, you know. Have a lovely time. Have a fun time.

Yeah. What are you doing that without? It's not work. You're going away and it's not work. How does that happen? Yeah. Mine's gone on the pretense of work. I've gone to Spain.

Is he going to the Europa League final? No, he's in Nepal. Oh, well, good luck. My only hope is that he's kind of like going to get a bad belly and feel bad. No. While he's out there. Don't. I thought you were going to say

the only hope is that he brings you back a really nice present. Yeah, he better do that. That's a given, I tell you. Well, I hope he's back soon, safe and sound. Thank you very much. Really lovely to meet you both. Good luck.

Really lovely to meet you. Thank you so much, Gabby. Bye. Take care. Really lovely to meet you. Thank you so much, Gabby. Bye. Take care. Thanks a lot. Bye.