The Netmums Podcast - S1 Ep81: Matt Willis on banning his kids from using social media

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

Matt Willis shares a sneak preview of his planned new book for teenage boys with Wendy, and reveals the Willis family tradition of 'gunking it out!’

You're listening to Sweat, Snot and Tears brought to you by Netmums. I'm Annie O'Leary and I'm Wendy College and together we talk about all of this week's sweaty, snotty and tearful parenting moments with guests who are far more interesting than we are. On this week's show it almost feels like you're making statements with your children and and and for us it's never been about that because I just love my son and I let him, you know, be whoever he wants to be. And I don't see why how you want to dress or how you want to have your hair should be such a big talking point, you know. But it is to some people. And that really shocked me. Good afternoon, listeners. Today is a sad, sad day because we're missing the lovely Annie.

So it's just me and the dog. Now, Hector is known for many things, including being an idiot. But he's not known for podcasting or for helping me out with dilemmas. So I'm going to head straight to our guest and he's going to have to help me instead. Today's dilemma is who are the biggest arses? Is it car hire companies or mortgage provider? Because both, as far as I'm concerned, can do one today. Ladies, gents, Matt Willis, please can you help me? Hi, I think that's a really tough one. We're about to go on holiday and I've been dealing with car hire companies.

We're going to wait for three weeks. We're trying to hire a car for three weeks. It's bloody expensive. Like ridiculously expensive. I was like, this is costing more than we were staying. So I'm in that world right now. I think I found a solution. Well, I'm glad you have.

We got abandoned in Miami by our car hire company. And I'm trying to get my money back. And you can just imagine how well that's going. Oh, my God. I mean, that's filling me with dread because we've booked one from like a local place because it was way cheaper. And I'm like, is this real? Well, this was a big company and they totally messed us around my husband queued for an hour and a half to be told he didn't exist which

is always nice for your self-esteem isn't it anyway that's my woes tell me any sweaty snotty or teary moments in the Willis household this morning well all this afternoon in fact we had a we had a couple yesterday my my my youngest has got a ear infection so um so she's dealing with that she was off school yesterday but we couldn't really keep her off again like the doctor said she's fine to go in so we we sent her in this morning which she was a bit not pleased about shall we say but um but then she's also got two really ridiculously wobbly teeth at the front of her mouth right now. She's got two that have come out. In my house, we call it the gunk, you know,

and I just get my finger and just gunk it out. See, mine won't let me. She's got a really wobbly front tooth too. We're at the stage, I think they're about the same age, and she runs away screaming if you go anywhere near her. Exactly what's happening right now. I mean, my eldest and my son couldn't wait for me to gunk them out. You know, they were like, gunk it out!

You know, so, and I keep telling her, gunking doesn't hurt. This inventive word that I've made up. But she won't let me go anywhere near it. She looks like the singer of the Pogues right now. Her mouth like a bag of chips. But it's, you know, she's holding on to it for dear life. Oh, so how old is she? She dear life. So how old is she? She's six.

And how old are the others? Ace is 10 and Isabel is about to be 13. Teenager. I know, I know. I'm kind of seeing signs now. I mean, she's pretty cool, bless her. But, like, it's, you know, like, she had a, you know, she has her moments.

Like, she's the only person I know that can be watching something on her computer whilst playing a game on her phone. I'm like, you're not doing either of these well. But she's, yeah, she's one of them. Well, I have 10 and 6, so I understand some of the joys, but I'm already thinking, oh, Christ, 13. I'm not sure. I was a ghastly teenager, so I'm already thinking, oh Christ, 13. I'm not sure. I was a ghastly teenager, so I think it's going to come back

and bite me in the ass. Have they got very distinct personalities? Are they all very different? I mean, hugely. I mean, you know, they're so different. My oldest is quite like me. She looks a bit like me. She's the only one who does. The other two look the spitting image of emma um but like um she's got a lot of me in her

worryingly so um uh you know i can kind of see myself in there quite a lot you know but we spent quite a bit of time because when she was um when she was first born um i took a year off and kind of stayed at home with her and kind of like, and did all that. And Emma was doing Big Brother's little brother at the time, I think. And she kind of just got that. So she was like, right, you know, so I stayed at home. So I feel like I've got a bit of a special bond with her. We don't have favourites, but I've got a little,

there's something special about me and Wiz, you know. So it's, but she's, yeah, she's got a lot of me in her. And Ace is just all emotion. Like, he's so emotional. Like, he's, but, like, emotionally intelligent with it. You know, like, he can sense some things up, you know, and he'll come and ask you, are you all right? I'm just, oh, mate, you're bloody great, you are.

You know, but he's, you know, and that's very Emma. She'm sorry mate you're bloody great you are you know but he's um you know and that's very emma she can send something a mile off you know she um she's really like that and trixie's absolutely crazy you know in the best possible way third child they're always absolutely crazy yeah that's what i've heard but it's so stereotypical that she's um she's so funny she makes me belly laugh every single day it's the only kid stereotype that i really believe is true is that third children are batshit all of them because i think they've got the first two have paved the way they've done the really really bad stuff and they come along and you're a bit inured to it by then and then they're like yeah and they know

which buttons to push from the second they come out third kids I reckon she knows exactly what she's doing she's always after something so I'm sadly old enough to remember busted the first time around and now I have a 10 year old who listens to you which freaks me out a bit really yeah wow they've got this i must confess they don't always listen to you in they basically have this game they play with boy bands whether you're good or crap and they listen to all the songs and they judge them right it's harsh it's well harsh i'm not going to tell you what they say how do we come off yeah uh to be, she's a little bit more drum and bass, so most boy bands don't do well with her.

But what do your kids make of it? Because obviously you and Emma are in the public eye a lot. Do they talk about it? Do you talk to them about it? They obviously didn't know Busted when it was first around. But then when Mook Busted happened, when we got together with Mook Fly, my eldest two were around and they kind of came to shows and they kind of, they thought it was really weird, you know, but they were quite,

my eldest was quite into it. She found it quite cool. Like she's, she's really into music and she really likes, so does my son actually, but, but she was really into it. And then one day I picked her up from school and I'd just been at a photo shoot and I had bright green hair and tennis ball green hair. Nice. And we got back to the car. She looked at me strange.

She looked all around, you know, and then we got back to the car. She must have been about six. And she went, Daddy, next time you pick me up, please wear a hat. And I was like, oh, no, I'm embarrassing hat and I was like oh no I'm embarrassing dad I was like have you seen the other dads in your class I'm wicked gotta say that's cold my daughter's trampoline teacher has got green hair she thinks he's the best thing ever so you see you'd have been cool in my house what about Emma because obviously she's on I can't stop watching her delivering babies basically but keeping it again right now she's back, I can't stop watching her delivering babies, basically, but.

She's doing it again right now. She's back on. Is she? She is now, yeah. It's, what I love about it is it's clear she absolutely bloody loves it. I mean, she loves it more than anything she's ever done in her life. Like, she kind of came up with the concept and kind of thought it was unachievable. And then before you knew it, she kind of made it happen.

She's very much like that. And, I mean she if she wasn't doing what she was doing she always wanted to be a nurse and she's kind of um and she you know i mean the first season especially was really tough because she had to do all the training you know so she had she had to get that qualification so she really had to be in there all the time training as much as possible putting in extra shifts whenever she can you know um uh and can, you know. And I was going to say it's chilled out now, but it hasn't.

She's still there doing everything she possibly can for it. You know, she loves it. She loves her programme and I love watching it. It's beautiful. And do the kids kind of get involved in any of the fame with you guys now? I know you keep them off of social media as much as possible, but do they get involved? No no I don't think so I don't think they've really um I don't think they really care about that stuff you know like um they you know they don't want to be famous you know they don't really I think we've kind of instilled in that in them that that's kind of like a byproduct of what you do

you know and in my experience when i was younger it was the down point you know like i loved everything about it apart from being famous you know so it was kind of you know now it's kind of much much easier for me because i've got kind of a level which i really like where if anyone knows who i am they're a fan and then they've got something cool to talk about you know whereas with emma it's um it's like she goes anywhere and people stare at her so they don't really like that i feel like they find that a bit uncomfortable sometimes you know when people come up to her they find that a bit uncomfortable but um um they they deal with it quite well and we're always you know really open and honest with them about everything you know so it's kind of um i think they've kind of got a good grip on it

i think plus there's a there's a in my daughter's class there's like quite a famous footballers kids so like we're nothing to them yeah yeah you don't count so is that why you took what was supposed to be a brief hiatus from social media and turned into an eight month break was that was this not such a great big love of fame why you decided you needed a rest? Well, I kind of, do you know what? I love a guy called Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. I love him so much. I read everything he does, listen to his podcast,

watch everything he's on. And he did one. He did a seven-day IAS, then he did a 30-day. And so I did that. I thought, right, I'm going to do seven days because, you know, I made these rules. I don't read comments. I don't kind of do that.

I post and ghost and all that kind of stuff. But before I knew it, I wasn't. I was doing everything. And then I found myself just slipping into a hole. And to be honest, the last – I've just finished a musical called Waitress. And when I first started the job, I was kind of prepping in my room. I was making my, getting myself ready to go on. And in between scenes, I'd go back to my dressing room

and think about what I'm going to do next. And then before I knew it, I was coming off stage and flicking, you know, and scrolling and hearing my cue and running on stage. You know, I was just like, this has got, you know, and I've got problems with addiction left right and center and i was like this is becoming a bit of an issue you know i just don't like my behavior around it which is what it was like a problem with social media social media is what it is but i don't like the way i was behaving with it so i kind of went right i'm gonna do seven days and then after seven days i thought

right i'm gonna try and do 30 you know and then before I knew it I didn't really miss it and my life seemed to be kind of quite cool and I kind of you know and I kind of felt much more chill in a way you know and I kind of really enjoyed that so I just thought you know what I don't really have anything to say right now or anything to kind of um I'm in a 10-month contract with the musical I don't have anything to promote apart from this and they're they're doing that for me there's posters up there's things doing you know so i don't really need to do that so i kind of just went you know what i'm gonna stay off it for a while before i knew it was eight months and then um i was uh the only thing i found quite hard is i didn't know what anyone was talking about totally disconnected from social life I don't read the

news I don't I don't look at the news at all I was like I had no idea people having conversations I'm like but that's quite telling isn't it that how much we rely on social media to be our news feed because it's not a straight news feed it's just someone's opinion yeah and I think you just get used to the stuff you see, you know, whereas like people would go, oh, look at this. And they'd show me something. I'd go, that's bollocks. You know, but then like now I'm like, woo.

It's really weird, you know, but it's, you know, when I came back, I kind of, I had a big, long time to think about. I'm like, right, what do I want to do? What do I want to, you know, kind of like, I've got certain things I'm like right what do i want to do what i want to you know kind of like what i've got certain things i'm doing right now i'm building and i'm like right i want to get into this and like how can i use this in a way that it serves me without taking over me in a way and kind of um and relying on that kind of um those what are they likes or whatever you know like i don't have to worry about that stuff i just want to put up what I want to put up and kind of then you know be able to kind of come away from it.

And how do you deal with it with the kids because we're just dipping our toe into the kind of wanting to do social media and obviously with a 13 year old there's got to be some questions how do you deal with it with her? Well we've of just said no um for a while because um you know we watched the social dilemma and i've watched all these other kind of docs about it and about what that is and um you know and kind of i can't see much good from it for kids you know like i can't see the i can't see why you know i can see lots of why nots you know but i can't see the i can't see why you know i can see lots of why nots you know but i can't see any definitive why apart from your friends do it i did a lot of stuff my friends did and regret it you know so uh that's not a really good enough argument for for me you

know and the fact that she's the only girl in the class who doesn't have it i understand that you know i understand that she feels that and understand what she's the only girl in the class who doesn't have it i understand that you know i understand that she feels that and understand what she's going through but we're at the moment we're still staying strong and saying no when she's you know 14 15 i think it's gonna you know the thing is it's it's unavoidable you know it is the way that um you know we we act now within social media you know it is a big part of everyday life, you know. So I think at some point we're going to have to cross that bridge. But right now we're still saying no, like she wants TikTok on anything.

I don't really know enough about that, but everything I see about TikTok seems quite fun, you know. So it feels a bit less, I don't know, less, I mean, on a scale of Twitter, Instagram, TikTok TikTok TikTok seems a bit more fun and a bit less you know much but um but I don't really know enough about it I've got it on my phone now so I should maybe have a little bit of a go on it for myself and see what that's about you know but I'm impressed though because it's hard to say no to them for things that they really want it's right to say no to them at times but it

is tricky when they're saying but everyone else has got it dad yeah yeah no it's really tough you know and but the thing is we've always talked about it we talked about it since they were young you know like and the fact that their faces aren't on our social media and the fact that we keep them out of that we tell them why you know is um is I think they understand you know I think however much she wants it she understands why we don't want her to have it you know and eventually we'll have a discussion together and I'm sure we'll come to some kind of agreement about it but um at the moment we're still managing to stay strong well there was a big I can't remember when it was it wasn't maybe last year when Emma put a picture up of your son wearing a pink crop top and there was a massive

hoo-ha around it and everyone was like oh breaking gender stereotypes and I remember at the time Emma was just like he's just wearing a pink t-shirt would you all chill out it's not that big a deal well that's exactly my point I think um I think it almost feels like you're making statements with your children and kind of like and and and for us it's never been about that like it's never been it's kind of forced us into these conversations you know when really we don't like I don't feel equipped enough to have them because I just love my son and I let him, you know, be whoever he wants to be, you know, which is, you know, within parameters, you know. But, like, I don't see why, you know, how you want to dress

or how you want to have your hair should be such a big talking point, you know, but it is to some people. And that really shocked talking point you know but it's um it is to some people and that really shocked me you know and um and i think you know what happened after that really kind of made me kind of go yep stay away from that you know and it kind of um it really cemented that for me and keep them away from it as much as possible yeah i mean that was that was what i meant like um but i'm just like right you know what this is a world that you don't need to enter right now. You know, I think they say until you're 25, your brain isn't fully formed or something. So I'm like, I don't need to happen to worry about this shit right now.

You know, like, I mean, I don't have to worry what other, what some dickhead thinks of you, you know, I don't give a shit. So, you know, why should you have to deal with that? And you don't, unless you put yourself in that world. You know, I mean mean we deal with it occasionally from kind of um people around who may think he's a girl or something you know but we can kind of solve that quite quickly and is he okay with that is he pretty chilled he's just who he is and quite happy um I mean sometimes it gets to him you know it's like I'm a boy you know it's like to wear

pink and I've got long blonde hair. What's the issue? You know, like, but he likes to wear all colours. It's not just like, I mean, it's not like he, you know, lives in a sparkling sequins and stuff. And like, you know, it's not like he wears a princess dress every day. But, you know, it's, that's who he is. And he just likes to be who he wants, you know. And I think he kind of can't quite understand why everyone else can't accept that, you know, and I think he's right. You know, he's right to think that, you know, and I think he kind of can't quite understand why everyone else can't accept that, you know, and I think he's right, you know, he's right to think that, you know, why can't people

accept that? I mean, it's just, you know, it's not as big a deal, I think, as people try to make it, you know, but for some people it is, you know, so then you get on both sides of the argument, before you know it, I'm fighting for something I don't know what I'm fighting for, you know so then you get you get on both sides of the argument before you know it i'm fighting for something i don't know what i'm fighting for you know and i'm like i'm just loving my son but all you can do is teach him to be happy with who he wants to be that's it and hope he's resilient enough to kind of deal with whatever gets thrown in his direction yeah totally i think you're you're totally right i mean that's kind of my job right is to kind of um just look after and make sure he's all right and make sure he makes decisions based on what he wants you know and that's um that's something which i i really try to try to instill

in him is you know don't make decisions based on what other people think you should do you know i mean there's there's certain laws and rules that you should probably follow but other people's opinions you know yeah done you've been really open about past addictions and all the joys and traumas and tribulations and i guess are you open with the kids about it as well? Do you worry that that's something that might be in them and do you talk to them really openly about it? I think it's something that's in a lot of people. You know, I think I'm very open about it. You know, I've recently kind of, you know, been a bit more open about it because my daughter who's turning 13 is um

is you know going to things and seeing things people seeing people behave in a certain way you know like at parties and things not not her friends but like at family do's or adults or something like that and there has been a few times when you know in the past where they've said why don't you drink daddy you know and i've kind of just said i can't i can't you know, in the past, we'll ever say, why don't you drink, Daddy? You know, and I've kind of just said, I can't, you know, I can't control myself once I do that. You know, something, once I have anything that alters my state of mind, I can't control what happens next. And so I don't because I like who I am, you know.

And when I do that, I don't like who I am, you know. And I think they kind of um they kind of understand that and um you know like I mean and everyone else in our family drink like Emma has a drink occasionally but like I haven't said I'm drunk for years you know but it's um but it's not in our house you know like we don't drink at dinner we don't drink in the house you know occasionally there'll be a party and we might have a can of porn style martini. But it's not really part of our life. You know, it's not really part of our day to day kind of life. So they don't really see that. And so they don't really have to come into contact with it very often. I mean, you know, I've kind of thought about that quite a lot. You know,

what would I do if they come back drunk or high? You know, and I'm like, well, how would I react to that? You know, and I don't quite know the answer to that. But that's a question all parents ask, irrespective of whether you drink or not. I've asked that question. What happens when they first start deciding? Back in our day, it was white lightning. But whatever your poison is, whatever it is that they're going to try they're going to try something yeah and you know and in

some ways they probably should you know um at a certain age you know but um but i do agree that i don't think kids should be drinking until they're 18. When I see, you know, when I see younger, when I see people giving their teenagers a beer or a glass of wine or whatever that is, a glass of champagne or something, I always feel like I'm not sure how I feel about that, you know, because I think there is an age limit on it for a reason. And I think, you know, I think, you know, it's a funny little subject, isn't it?

Because, you know, and people always go, oh, well, the French, you know, teach their kids to drink wine and they drink it well and they drink it normally or whatever. I'm like, really? There's no alcoholics in France. You know, there's no drug problems in France, is there? You know, so it always baffles me that argument. But, you know, I think, you know, with anything like this, it's about, it's about

kind of knowing what you're going into, I think, you know, like, and with, and with drinking drugs, it's a very, um, you know, it's, um, it's a subject I know a lot about, you know, and I kind of, um, and I still try to know as much about it. I try to keep up to date with everything that's going on in that world. And then, and there's fascinating things coming out right now like the science in addiction right now is blowing my mind about what you know what they're tracking to what causes that or you know because it's always been you know kind of you're an alcoholic that's just that's just it you know when actually that's not quite it you know there's lots of things that can come into play there and lots of things that can maybe be helped or avoided so when you kind of when you stopped drinking and you stopped using did that change your support network do you have a kind of dad network I'm sure there's there's band

members and there's loads of guys around but do you have that support network who do you go to um to be honest no um i i don't well i do now some of my friends have had kids now but when i was i was 26 when i had isabel and i was kind of by far the youngest out of my kind of group of mates who had had a child and it was kind of um and it was quite you know it was so far from my mates radars but when i stopped drinking using i stopped hanging around with all the people i drunk and used with you know so um i i kind of lost that network of people for a very valid reason you know and like and they weren't all bad people but i just chose to kind of like that's the world which i don't no longer want to

be in and um and i i choose to stay away from it but i think um you know but when i um when i had isabel like it was um it the i think the number one influence i had was emma's dad like he was he's the he's been the biggest influence for me as a man if i'm honest he's just the most kind of like perfect role model of a human you know he's just a really great bloke and in every possible way he's a fantastic father he's a fantastic granddad and he gives his heart and soul every day to everyone you know he's a really good soul so I am I really really value that. We all need Emma's dad. I like the sound of him. Yeah, he's brilliant.

He's great. What do you find hardest about being a parent? What's your button? What's the bit? I've got the temper, so I find it hard to keep my temper when they're driving me potty. I have a bit of a temper too.

I try to keep a lid on it, but occasionally it flares up. I mean, they can tell when daddy's pissed off. I think trying to pick the right language. I try to keep a lid on it, but occasionally it flares up. I mean, they can tell when daddy's pissed off. I think trying to pick the right language, you know, for me, because so many things have been imprinted in my brain from childhood that don't fucking matter and aren't the right thing to say. It's so weird, all these things that kind of come back. I'm like, wow, that's my fucking stepdad talking.

What is that about? It's hardwired in there isn't it you hear yourself and you're like yeah that's my dad i can hear it or that's my mum or granddad frank said that it's so strange how it happens and it's often really not what you want to be conveying to your kids terrible advice you know like it's so it's so it's so weird, you know, like sometimes. So I really try when I'm talking to them to kind of think about what I'm going to say. You know, if I'm trying to, you know, teach them a lesson, for instance, it doesn't have to be telling them off, but just teach them. I'm very careful with how I say it, you know, and I really think about what I'm going to say because otherwise I can say something.

I'm like, oh, fuck it, you can hold on to that. Don't hold on to that. That's bullshit. You know, so, you know, I'm really kind of careful about about that stuff so I find that the hardest thing kind of community communicating with them something important without saying something that they will hold on to which will be detrimental to them isn't it funny though because do you think we worry more than our parents did like Like you just said then, oh God, if I say that, are they going to hold on to it?

I do that all the time. And I don't think our parents did that in the same way. They just fed us and clothed us and sent us on our way. Don't think they fretted about the psychological damage of us for the next 10 years. No, but I'm fucked. You know, so I've got to be a bit careful about what I put into the world. Now, I read that you love planning and you love planning your day.

Now, I bloody love a list. So how else do you stay vaguely half sort of sane on a day to day basis other than lists? I mean, I have a ridiculous routine that keeps me as sane as I can possibly be. You know, so I have a morning routine. My nighttime routine is out the window at the moment. Like, I've been away on tour for 10 months. I mean, to be honest, lockdown happened. I hadn't worked for 18 months

and someone offered me a very good gig that was away from home. And I was like, sign me up. You know, so I then didn't really think about the consequences of signing that document. But, you know, so it was 10 months and I loved the show. I loved everything about it, but it was away for 10 months. So I kind of had to get used to kind of a different kind of life in a way.

You know, I'd come home usually after the show on a Saturday night if I wasn't if I was less than four hours away I'd drive home but then um um sometimes I'd come back on the Sunday morning but then I'd have the Sunday with them and then I'd go again on the Monday morning so I really missed them you know like um I just missed life you know I just missed like I mean don't get me wrong like the cast were great everyone was great but i was um i'm i don't go out you know there's lots of things that were happening which i wasn't a part of so i was kind of on my own a lot so i kind of had to figure out a brand new kind of routine for my day because otherwise nothing happens and um

and i can get a bit in my own head so um i'm i'm So I kind of worked out whilst I was away. And then I kind of planned what I was going to do when I get back. You know, and I mean, my day is like, is within an inch of its life. Like if I show you my diary, it's like, it's like everything's got times. And I stick to it because otherwise I can very easily sit on my ass and do nothing. You know um and then i feel like shit you know so um so i wake up in the morning i do something called um the morning miracle at the moment which is like a little hour to myself before i get the kids up and i kind of

meditate i think about what i'm going to do with my day i plan my day kind of have a gratitude list and um and i do a bit of work on recovery and and of what I'm going to do to stay clean and sober. And then I get the kids up and mayhem happens for the next hour. And then they go to school and then my day kind of begins. You know, and I kind of usually start my day with some kind of training. Then I start work. And at the moment I'm doing some different stuff, which is kind of out of my comfort zone. So I'm sat at a keyboard quite a lot, kind of going, which is amazing. And I love it.

And I love it so much. It's so funny, like, you know, with writing, I think I've always kind of felt like, because I wasn't very good at school, like I couldn't do that. But then once you kind of get, I think it's the same as everything. No one can do anything until they try.

You know, and I kind of, now I sit down, I just love it. It's a bit of time to kind of myself and I kind of I really enjoy that that process interesting and you're also planning a bit of a special one-off show aren't you um oh kinky boots kinky boots yeah yeah yeah that's kind of um I worked with a company called the LMTO which is the London Musical Theatre Orchestra and they're incredible we did um a Christmas carol together in the Dominion during COVID. And we kind of got it in, they got it in the Dominion like during that time and everyone was spaced

out in masks. It was really weird. But then we managed 11 shows and then we got shut down out of 45. So it was a really amazing, amazing thing. And we were all kind of gutted but then they came back to me and they said how'd you fancy doing this and i went to watch kinky boots in town and uh ducal david hunter was playing the part that i'm playing he's incredible i remember watching it kind of going i could never do that you know so when it came in i was like run towards things

that scare you so i said yes and um and i'm working on it every day I've got a singing teacher which I see three times a week anyway you know for this do you prefer theatre to gigs what's or is it just too different it's kind of you know the way I explain it it's like it's kind of like swimming and rowing you know they're both in the same water but they're very different disciplines I mean theatre is um what I love about it is even though it's the same thing every night it's completely different and um and you can make of it what you want you know whatever happens on stage you've always got tomorrow you know so um which is good for me because i can beat myself up within an inch of my life for shit i do and um but i'm more good now at going, it's all right, tomorrow we'll get it.

So whereas this is just one gig. It's the one, no pressure. It's brilliant. I love the music. I mean, Cyndi Lauper wrote the score. It's so good. It's such a good show. It's just brilliant.

And are you allowed to tell us what the writing is for? What's next? I'm writing a book. I've been kind of humming and hawing about it for a couple of years. And it's coming together really well. It's aimed at teenage boys. I think being a teenage boy for me was a very weird, troublesome time. And throughout my life, I've made horrendous mistakes,

which I wish someone would go, maybe you shouldn't do that, mate. And through that, I've kind of developed kind of ways that I live my life, and they seem to steer me well, you know? So, I mean, I still fuck up all the time, you know,

but I learned from them and I kind of try not to do it again, you know? So it's, and I think, you know, teenage boys right now, like I listen to my daughter talking about what stuff is happening at the school.

I'm like, what? So, yeah, I kind of, I think I had so many backwards kind of um i think i had so many backwards kind of forced upon me thoughts of what a man was you know what it meant to be a man and um and i was so wrong and so many of them were so um couldn't be further from who i am today but

um but i held on to them for so long and they served me really badly, you know, and it's only over time that I've kind of, I've kind of realized that that without knowing we pass these things on and kind of like, I think there's so many kind of stereotypes about, about men and, you know, and I think, um, you know, we got to talk about that, you know, we kind of kind of got to think about what they actually mean. I mean, you know, there's so much about kind of strength and weakness,

whereas, you know, I don't think you should confuse weakness and vulnerability, you know, it's such a big thing. And for me, there was no weakness. Like, I kind of, I never cried, you know, and I didn't cry until I was 29, I think. You know, like, and I didn't, not once, and eventually it just opened the floodgates and I feel fucking great, you know. And that was forced upon me, you know.

That was kind of like, that was my era kind of telling me that boys don't cry, you know, and like, and, and, you know, that's, that did not serve me well, as a human, as a father, as a husband, as an actor, it was, it was really, you know, I think, in some ways, you know, we build up this kind of scaffolding around us, like we build up these things, boys don't cry, you know, keep can't carry on, you know, these kind of things that we kind of build up around us and they become who we are but actually that's not who we are we need to break that scaffolding down and just kind of go actually what you know what is it to be you know a man and and a kind of um in in today's world you know and i kind of think you know i'm not saying i've got it all right i make mistakes all the time but and i will gladly talk about them

you know because i think that's the way you kind I will gladly talk about them you know because I think that's the way you kind of get through them as well you know so it's um um yes I just kind of wanted to write about that and kind of wanted to kind of um I wish I'd had something like this you know that could have gone oh dude you're right you're okay we um I said the same so Bryony Gordon did a similar book for girls, the Telegraph columnist Bryony Gordon. And I read that and thought, oh my God, I wish this had been around when I was a teenager.

So that's what you're going to do for boys. Hopefully. If you get it finished by the deadline, crack on. This is just the first part. You know, so we've got a lot to do, but I do love it. I ramble on though. That's fine. That's all good. That's what editors are for exactly exactly that's what i hear now very important question what's for tea and who's cooking oh i'm cooking tonight um um i haven't quite decided

um on what's the tea it's screaming barbecue the weather's screaming barbecue i know i know we had a barbecue at night so we had a barbecue on sunday controversial um but um yeah i mean it is screen the barbecue actually it's a really good idea um i love a barbecue but i have got in the freezer i found um some cottage pie mix that i made ages ago i made like far too much I've got that ready to go just got to stick some potato on that but it's not really cottage pie weather is it that's a bit November for a hot June day I've got to tell you yeah you're so right you're so right so do you know what I think I might do barbecue sorry Willis children if you don't want barbecue tonight that's my fault.

Now, my final question for you, which isn't just because of who you are. We ask everybody this. You have to imagine, and this is always much easier when Annie's here because she invented this question. So I always blame it on her. Imagine that you're tucking me into bed, Matt, and I'm one of your kids. It's not weird. And sing me your family lullaby? Because everybody has one.

Everyone has something they sing their kids. I mean, I'm sure this one has been used quite a lot, but my wife has sung it to all of our kids. And, oh, actually, no, I've got a different one. My wife has always sung, You are my sunshine, my little sunshine. I got the words wrong. But she sings it little instead of only because there's three of them. Okay.

So she sings that. But my son was terrible at sleeping. He was literally all over the bed, climbing out the door. He wouldn't go to sleep. But he loved the Muppets. But he loved the Muppets. But he loved the movie, not the most recent movie, but the one before that. And there was a song in it which is,

Everything is great, everything is grand. I've got the whole wide world in the palm of my hand. Everything is perfect, it's falling into place. And I'd sing that to him on repeat for about an hour and I'd slowly get quieter and quieter until I was and then did you do the tiptoe when you stop and you tiptoe out of the room I mean so many times so many times I mean a lot of time I'd fall asleep within most like four nights out of the week but um it was uh it was it was a lot but that song whenever I hear it reminds me of that exact moment well thank you Matt what a

lovely way to spend a sunny afternoon wow thank you so much what a great chat good luck with your book take care and I hope the kids enjoy the barbecue thanks a lot take care bye