The Netmums Podcast - S10 Ep10: Joe Swash: Looking after our vulnerable teens

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Season 10 ends with the fantastic Joe Swash, joining us to talk about life at Pickle Cottage with wife Stacey Solomon and their large gang of children! Joe also talks to hosts Wendy and Alison about the new BBC documentary that he's presenting entitled 'Teens In Care'. The documentary follows Joe as he explores the stories of teens in care over the age of 16, who are the largest growing cohort in both child protection and the care system. 

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollage. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... Governments change and children's ministers change all the time. And every time that happens, the can gets kicked down the street and nothing happens. And it's heartbreaking because these are not our children biologically, but as a society, they're our kids. But before all of that... This episode of The Netmamas podcast is brought to you by Aldi. Wendy, I've got a question for you. What's your guilty parenting pleasure?

Oh, I'd probably say it's gobbling up cold fish fingers from my kids' plates after they've abandoned dinner in favour of watching the telly. I do that too. I reckon my guilty pleasure is sneaking out and escaping my children to have a lovely browse of my local Aldi alone. I am so with you. What I love about Aldi is they have an excellent range of great value products. They even have an award winning baby and toddler range, which includes weaning essentials, nappies and wipes. It's funny you should say that because another friend told me that she switched to Aldi Mamiya and it's giving her big savings. Yes, plus with Netmums and Aldi, new parents can get a pack of newborn nappies absolutely free.

So log on to our site and let your friends know about this awesome opportunity with Netmums and Aldi. Right, don't tell my family but I'm sneaking off to Aldi right now. Hello, hello, lovely listeners. I have a question for my co-host this morning, Alison. Don't judge. This morning I did that thing where my seven-year-old was a bit hot and a bit grotty. And I thought, I've got to record a podcast with a certain guest today. Cow pole and off she goes. And then now I feel really, really guilty. Tell me you've done it too. I did it just yesterday, Wendy.

That's such weird, freaky timing. One of my four-year-old twins, the same thing. She'd been a bit poorly the day before, but she was a bit better. And I was like, I don't know, like an extra day off preschool probably would do her good. But I had meetings, I'd work things to crack on with. So I just like shoved some cowpaw in her and took her off to preschool and hoped for the best.

But I did feel, I felt really guilty about it. Okay, well, we'll just feel guilty together. I bet you that the person we're about to introduce has never done anything as terrible as that. Never, I'll bet, no. Let's find out. I mean, today we're joined by someone who rose to fame playing Mickey Miller in EastEnders back in the early noughties.

Yeah, blast from the past. He won I'm a Celebrity in 2008, becoming King of the Jungle, and has become half of a media power couple with his wife, Stacey Solomon, from their pickle cottage HQ. But Joe Swash is delving into something more serious and more personal in a brilliant new BBC documentary, Joe Swash Teens in Care. It looks into the untold stories of Britain's teens in care. Let's say a big warm welcome to Joe Swash.

Hello everyone. Thank you for that. That's so lovely. It's nice to have you on. It's not often that we get someone who is part of, quite frankly, media royalty. Beckingham Palace, not a patch on Pickle Cottage, Jo. We're sat looking at the lovely garden of Pickle Cottage right now. Yeah, it's just behind us. The kids are all at school, so this is like the lull before the storm. It's nice and quiet. It's all lovely.

But if you come back in about an hour, it will be a war zone out there. Chaos. And actually, I wanted to ask you about that because you come across as being a really hands-on dad. And actually, we had to move this podcast recording slightly today because you're needed on the school run, aren't you? Yeah, well, Stacey's away with the girls,

with Rose and Belle. They're in Paris. So it's just me and the boys and Rex. So I have to pick Rex up at quarter past two. So I just had to move it forward. He really gets the ump if I don't pick him up. And also, I love it because he's not going to be at nursery for long. So, you know, it's just nice.

How is life as a slightly bigger clan? There's a little new little Belle has joined it. Is it carnage? Is she a sleeper? Is she a screamer? You know what? She's really good. Touch wood, you know.

We've been really lucky with the babies. I think because the house is so hectic and full of noise and full of stimulation that they learn to sleep through, like, thunder and lightning and you can drop a cup of tea. They won't stir. So from an early age they get used to the noise but it's um it's challenging because you know we have kids on all different levels we we have teenagers from 16 nearly 15 and then we have like 11 and then we've got rex

and he's four and then the two girls So they all need sort of different stimulation at different times, and they need different sort of attention, you know. But there's only two of you. Yeah, how do you balance that? I mean, I've got a 12-year-old and four-year-old twins, and I find that a challenge, like trying to keep them all happy at the same time. How do you guys manage it? I mean, we're really lucky because we've got a lot of family that live near us, they've got a lot of cousins that come over and it's like an open house really friends will

come over so you know when they're back from school we'll make sure that there's lots of stuff for them to do and as long as we keep them awake it's that thing of keeping them awake from half past three if you keep them awake till six o'clock and you feed them then yeah then you're winning but no you know me and Stacey we love it you know it's challenging but it's so rewarding at the same time and yeah we we wouldn't change it for in a million years. And is there anything that you've learned about yourself since becoming a dad all those years ago with Harry and then more recently with your other kids what have you learned about jill swash what have i learned about you know what i think i think the main thing that i think me and

stacy have both learned about each other is that we were very adaptable you know so like everyone says to us like is it overwhelming having so many kids but it sort of happens in stages so you sort of like we you drip you drip fed it a little bit. And then before you know it, you've got six and it's, and it's this massive, lovely house full of love. You do know how it happens,

Jo, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know how it happens. Before you know it, they just appear. But this is it.

I'm pretty sure that, you know, this is it, that we can't, we can't go there again, which is really sad because we love kids and we love the baby stage and the toddler stage and then the baby stage goes so fast. So, yeah, it is a little bit sad, but I think this will be it.

Which is your favourite stage? All of those, the baby, the toddler, all the way up to teens. What's the best bit? So i find the beginning bit quite difficult not difficult but it's because like you know it's very much stacy's breastfeeding and there's that real bond and connection with stacy and baby and basically my job is to make sure everyone else is okay and to make sure stacy and baby can just do their thing so when they start at the moment is my favorite stage so Stacey's starting to wean the baby off a little bit because Stacey's got to go back to work so they're a little bit more dependent and rely and they rely

on you a little bit more and then so I get to get my my bond with them and it all starts there but I love at the moment Rose is at a brilliant age. She's like 18 months old and she is hilarious. She's picking up words, putting words together. So, yeah, you know what? It's difficult. So I think everything up from the very first stage, I love. But at the beginning, I sort of know I've got to sort of,

my job's to do something else. Let's go back to baby Joe and little Joe. Your childhood was very different to your kids, or a little bit different to your kids. Tell us about it. Yeah, my life was pretty much like mine at the moment, you know, growing up, my mum and my dad and my two sisters. And I was with my dad all the time.

We'd go football together, had an amazing relationship. And then, unfortunately, when I was 11, my dad passed away and sort of life changed completely straight away. You know, my mum was a single mum. She had to go out and work to provide because my dad was the main the main breadwinner in the family so my mum had to go out and yeah life changed pretty drastically um and it was really difficult I really struggled even today you know there'll be moments now even though I'm 40 that I'll think about things I'll get really sad about them and then yeah so it's difficult not having

my dad growing up and not having my role model because my dad was amazing. You know, we only had him for 11 years, but he was the most amazing man. You know, there were so many people at his funeral. We had so many friends. He left us sort of like in good hands with my mum, you know. Yeah, no, it was really difficult, you know, because it was just my mum and my sisters and we didn't have much family around us either.

But, you know, my mum was brilliant. She brought us up. She worked really hard. You know, we struggled, but we were happy and we loved each other. And I had my acting, which really was a distraction because growing up I was dyslexic and school wasn't really going well for me and my my my focus was my acting and and you know it's taking me places and I've done amazing jobs from from doing that and I have to give credit to my mum she made sure that you know I continued doing that that was the one thing that I stayed with my life. And your mum became a foster carer didn didn't she, over 15 years ago. So had you left home by that point and started working on EastEnders? Yeah, so I'd left home by then.

I think I'd done The Jungle and stuff like that. So I'd left home and I'd had Harry. My two sisters were still at home with my mum. It was a little girl and she was the most amazing baby. But I think what it was, as us kids were getting older, my mum sort of knew she had so much more to give and so much more love to give. There's so many kids out there that really need that love and support. So we were really behind my mum.

We're super proud of what she's done and what she's achieved. But, yeah, the first little baby, we had her when she was, like, three months old and we had her right up till she was like three and a half, nearly four. And yeah, she found a family and it was really sad. It was like, we went through like a mourning stage where we really missed her, you know, because she was like our little baby,

but we knew it was best for her to go to this family and it was a permanent residency and we still see her, she comes to my wedding, she's like 15 now and then my mum had another little boy called Daniel. Now Daniel we had when he was eight years old and he's now gone to university and doing amazing stuff and he's so much part of our family and I always say to Daniel you don't realize as much as you think we've done so much for you Dan what you've given us in return we you know you couldn't pay for so we're super proud of my mum and you know we're super proud of Daniel yeah they'll always be in our lives and they'll always be part of our family me and my sisters

we always joke around because my mum always makes sure that daniel's got clean clothes and the iron that he looks presentable and she cooks and cleans and runs around after him and we're like what happened to us when we were kids she was like i was too busy trying to earn money but yeah it's amazing to see what my mum's done and to see what happens when you see the potential in these kids and what they can achieve, you know. But yeah, we're super proud of my mum. She's amazing. So there wasn't ever any kind of animosity between you three and the foster kids? Was it just something, I know you'd moved out, but it was, you suddenly inherited some siblings? For me, you know, I had had Harry who was five at the time

and Daniel who was eight so what happened was just growing up me Harry and Daniel we everything I'd done with Harry I'd done with Daniel everything I bought Harry for Christmas Daniel would get the same there was never there was never a moment where Daniel would have felt that he wasn't loved just as much he was so much part of our family. And same with my sisters, you know. For Daniel, they're his older sisters and they still are. We speak to him every single day. He phones for help, you know, if he needs something.

His phone being paid for. You know, it's difficult for us. We never ever talk about Daniel as Daniel the foster boy. For me, I always introduce Daniel as my nephew. My mum is his nan. We love Daniel. He's as a part of the family as I am. Now, it must take a very special kind of person to become a foster carer.

What is it about your mum, do you think, that makes her such a good foster mum? You know what? It's difficult because I just think with my mum, the best thing that she is is being a mum you know what it's difficult because I just think with my mum she is the best thing that she is is being a mum and that is loving and paying attention and providing and keeping safe and she's just such a great mum and I think there's so many people out there that you know when their kids get a bit older feel that they've got so much more to give you know and she's such an incredible strong independent woman and yeah I just think she knew that she just wanted to be mum and she knew that there were kids out there that needed the help and needed the love and the time and the attention and my mum's got that in abundance so watching her give it to other

children just makes me and my sister so proud of her you know and my all of her grandchildren super proud of her and you know in in 10-15 years time Daniel will have children and they will be my mum's great-grandchildren and you know it's just it's just bonds that that she's created will never will never die and they will never stop. And yeah, she's just a great woman. So let's talk about the new documentary, Jo. The number of children aged 16 and over in care has increased by 37% in the last decade, my sources tell me. And that's something that you wanted to delve into, wasn't it? So how did this come about and what did you discover so basically daniel again is out is of the age where he is now out of foster care and he's independent living which for us

nothing changes he's still always got a room and he's always at my mum's and that's where he lives but for a lot of other kids they leave the foster system and that's it they enter the world and they've got to just fend for themselves so I wanted to look into this subject because I couldn't believe that this was the case do you know I mean that as a society we're letting these kids go and the stats for for kids that are in care are horrendous you know that there's such a high percentage of these kids become homeless a lot of the life expectancy is is reduced quite considerably the amount of crime that the kids from foster care end up committing and stuff like that and i was like surely that that can't be the case there's got to be more support for these kids when

they come out of foster care because you know these kids have they've been dealt a bad hand you know for all different circumstances they've had to grow up without their mum and dad without their family around them living in strangers houses in strange accommodations so you know i thought that that this this couldn't be the case and there must have been a system set up for these kids when they leave care. So we were approached by the BBC and we decided that this was a subject that we was going to delve into and make a documentary about.

And I have to say, it's exactly the case, you know, that there is nothing there for these kids once they leave the foster system. You know, a lot of the time I met a certain amount of people, one person in particular who, you know, he is living on universal credit. You know, he's got no job. He hasn't got friends or family around him. Now the only security he did have, he hasn't got no more.

And it's just heartbreaking to think that these kids have had such a difficult start in life, and now they're going to have such a difficult start in the beginning of their adulthood as well. So we looked into it. We went around the country and we looked at different examples of different young adults in different stages of leaving the system. And, you know, there was one success case out of all of them I can remember,

and the rest of them were just having to fend for themselves. And it's heartbreaking, you know. And there's been a massive independent report. The government had an independent report made, and the independent report has said, you know, that an injection of cash to turn the system around and to change it and to start again now would save so much more money in the future.

But as usual, governments change and children's ministers change all the time. And every time that happens, the can gets kicked down the street and nothing happens. And it's heartbreaking because these are not our children biologically, but as a society, they're our kids. You know, these are people that are going to go into the world. And, you know, I just found it very difficult.

And even, you know, we stopped filming months ago. I still sit down and, you know, my mind wanders to some of these kids that I went and visited. And, you know i just really really hope hope for the best for them the independent review that you mentioned so it's pinpointed that we need a big injection of cash if you were in charge if you were in the government and you were reading this review and taking action and you were deciding what changes to make what would you do you know what these these kids are our future.

And what the government will do, they will create a false economy because they don't put the cash and what it needs to turn the system around now. It will be another generation that's going to have to pick up the bill for it, you know? So we need to nick it in the bud. There's too many times where they've tried

to sort of like mend the system. The system needs to start again. It needs to have, the system needs to have people that have been in the system to help rebuild it. They've all got the experience. They're the ones that have lived it and breathed it, you know. But I just think it needs to have a large injection of cash to turn it around now to prevent us having to pay for it further on down the line. And fundamentally, away from the money, it's our duty you know as a society to make sure that we have you know stable healthy young adults going into society you know it's just i just i just find it very difficult

you know that this has been an issue for 20 years and no one's done nothing about it, not one government. And like I said, I met the children's minister and we spoke about this issue and they said that the amount of money they were prepared to put into the system, it was just, it wouldn't even scratch the surface. And what was it like making a documentary? Would you like to make more documentaries? And what kind of areas would you like to look into?

You know what? I loved making this documentary. And I loved social issues because I think social issues are so important. They affect everyone. And this was a side of a social issue that I was really interested in and I loved it I loved getting involved I love meeting the people and understanding the subject as well a little bit more so I'm learning along the way as well but yeah I'd love to do more on social issues and social matters it's something that if I ever get the opportunity to do another one yes it'll be

something I'll definitely do. Is fostering something you guys would consider because obviously you need more kids around the house but you know there's a lot going on at the moment but maybe a few years down the line is it something you would consider? Yeah me and Stacey have discussed it you know we discussed it before this documentary and we discussed it while making this documentary it's something that definitely when our kids get old enough that they're not as reliant on us and they're entering adulthood if you know touchwood were both healthy enough and fit enough we'd love to foster we'd love to give something back you know so it's something that yeah we've definitely spoke about but um you will have to wait till the time comes but we're open to the to the option

i mean obviously you guys have got so much time to spare and I'm sure that will just, you know, that won't decrease at all. But it does look like Rose and Rex absolutely adore Belle and she's slotted right into life at Pickle Cottage. Yeah, it's so lovely, you know, watching them all grow up together. Little Rose, she walks around like she's got a real life doll. We have to keep an eye on her because she keeps trying to carry her and trying to walk her up the stairs and stuff. So I'm like, no, no, no, keep an eye on Rose.

But Rose is fascinating. She's obsessed with Baby Belle. You know, if the dummy falls out, she'll go and put the dummy back in. She wants to feed her and cuddle her. And, yeah, Rex is the same. He loves her as well, but he's into different things, you know. But, yeah, he's there in the background. So has Rose tried to feed her pizza and chips yet?

Because that's what happened in my house when my big one tried to feed the baby pepperoni pizza at about three months old. Yeah, yeah. Well, at the moment, baby Belle is breastfeeding. We're sort of just weaning her at the moment. Yeah, she was in her cot and I heard gargling. And I was like, what is that noise? And I turned round. Baby Rose was trying to feed her her bottle of water. And I was like, my God, if I weren't in that room and I didn't hear it,

God knows what would have happened. Yeah. At least it's only water. At least it wasn't like a fruit shoot or something. I know. It was like she was having a bit, but you know, Rose didn't know. It weren't her fault. But yeah, you really do have to keep an eye on them. You will come in and she'll have, but you know, Rose didn't know, it weren't her fault, but yeah,

you really do have to keep an eye on her. You will come in and she'll be giving her like a chip or something, guaranteed. Oh, yeah, honestly,

yeah, she tries to feed her everything, Rose, but luckily, Belle's not having none of it, she's poking her, but yeah, we've got to keep an eye on Rose.

She thinks she's mother hen, she wants to feed and share everything with the baby. So yeah, we've got to be very careful. That's so lovely. You guys make having a blended family seem really smooth and seamless. Is it as smooth and seamless as it seems? You know what? Yeah. I mean, it looks, everything looks seamless. When you delve in, everything has its challenges, you know. We still still have challenges it's just how we deal with them challenges so yeah we love having our blended family it's difficult really because i don't really like calling it a blended family i hate being

called stepdad it don't make it don't feel right with me so i i you know i bring up i look after stacy's boys no differently to how i i look and how i love my own kids we're all one big unit but yeah it has its issues but it's not really the blended issues it's just we've got teenagers going through stroppy stroppy stages and stuff like that but no you know as long as the house is full of love and we all love each other exactly the same and i think that the most important thing is never make that distinction. I never, ever make a distinction between my kids and Stacey's kids. Even saying that makes me feel funny.

It's always our kids. I look at them as if they're my own. And same with my Harry, you know. We're just one big family and we all love each other. And that's the most important thing. I was actually going to ask you about the teenage thing. How are you doing with teenagers in the house, Jo? Is that a barrel of laughs?

Yeah, I mean, it's not that bad. You know what? I know that I'm 40 years old, but honestly, I feel like I can remember my teenage years like it was yesterday. So I know what they're all up to. I know the tricks that they're trying to pull because i pulled exactly and it's funny really because it must be in the jeans because they try and pull a fast one it's always the same things that i used to do to my mum so i'm like

i'm on it boys there's nothing you're gonna do that i haven't done so i do find it funny but yeah they're teenagers they're gonna have stroppy times they're going through puberty and all that sort of business so you just got to let them do their thing yeah don't don't they'll come out the other end soon enough so what's your favorite thing to do with the big kids and with the little ones there's two things we like to do we like to go to they do near us there's an amazing lake and they have like an obstacle course, an inflatable obstacle course floating on the lake. You go on with a life jacket and a wetsuit and you just go and play and chase the kids around. And we love doing that.

The older kids love doing that as well. It's a great way of wearing them out as well. Rex is at the stage where he likes his thing. We've got a thing near us called Jump Evolution. It's like a massive warehouse just full of trampolines and all sorts and he loves going wild doing that the older boys as well we do this thing called Airsoft

and it's like paintballing but with little BB bullets and like all the boys they've all got their own like camo and their own like little pretend guns and we go in the forest and we do that as well. Can we tell who enjoys this more, Alison?

I know. It's all about you. You love it. Sorry, Stace. Got to go and shoot the kids in the forest a minute. We'll be back in half an hour. Yeah, honestly, it's a hard life. But, yeah, no, I really enjoy fishing,

so I try to take them fishing whenever I can but yeah we try to do there's loads of little things that we do and I think that's important as long as everyone's got their own little hobby that we're all invested in and we all sort of like got an interest in you know everyone's happy so yeah we've all got we've got all of the ages have got a little thing that we like to do but what ends up happening is I come home and I end up crashing out the sofa and then I can't walk for two days afterwards genuine question how the hell do you fit it all in you said Stacey's in Paris at the moment you work there's lots of kids but you seem to manage to spend so much time with them how the blinking heck do you find the time for this? I mean, firstly, me and Stacey are really lucky.

We share the same agency, so they really help with making sure that if one person's working, the other person's at home. Sometimes it crosses over. We just can't help it. But a lot of the time we always try to make sure someone's at home to do the school runs and stuff. Yeah, and also me and Stacey, we we sort of so invested in the kids that we sort of not

sacrificed but we decided no instead of doing so many things as a couple we just do them as a family now so when we're not working we're just at home you know with the kids having fun going places for the kids it's just you know what they're not kids for long they're only kids for a short amount of time so you know we're investing as much time as possible in them at the moment because you know i don't want to look back in years to come and think i just i wish i'd spent more time on those kids and you know that's that's something that me and stacy are really blessed with with our jobs that you know I get to pick up and drop off Rex quite a lot from nursery and so does Stacey but yeah sometimes it doesn't work and and we get ourselves in a panic but we're really really lucky we've got my mum and Stacey's

dad and Stacey's mum and her sister lives nearby so we've got the help if we really need it we just try as as best as possible to try and do as much of it ourselves you know and we wouldn't change it for the world we love it it's you know what it's such hard work sometimes I get up in the morning and before I know it I'm putting them to bed I'm like where's the day gone but you know it's there are only kids once and then you've got to cherish that and you do you do and speaking of picking rex up from nursery we know you need to dash off soon to do that but before we let you go tell us what's next for joe swash what's next for me so hopefully i want to dip my toe into doing some more documentaries

this year um i released a book last year a cookbook last year that done really well. It was in the Sunday Times top 10 bestsellers. So I hope to do another book this year. Are you a bit of a secret chef on the side? Yeah, I love cooking for the family. So I've done MasterChef a couple of years ago and I finished second. But I learned so much stuff. So, yeah, I've been really like cooking. I do loads of cooking for the kids

it's something that i find quite therapeutic you know when it's been a busy day chuck the kids into the front room and then i can just cook and you know but i really enjoy it so yeah i want to do some more cooking i'm really interested in baby food so i'm talking to a few people about maybe trying to produce my own baby food as well. But yeah, there's lots of little things going on. But yeah, just busy. And then with the family, the rest of the time is dedicated to the kids. Well, thank you, Jo, for sharing some of your afternoon with us.

It's been lovely to talk to you. And we will let you go and get little Rex on the school run. Thanks, guys. Take care.