The Netmums Podcast - S10 Ep2: Siobhan Donaghy: Motherhood, me and getting the band back on the road

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Siobhan opens up for the first time about motherhood, telling us about her experiences with IVF, a difficult birth and post-natal depression. She also talks about what it was like to be thrust into the limelight age 13, her struggle with anxiety at a time when mental health wasn't as openly discussed, and her friendship with Sugababes bandmates Keisha and Mutya. The Sugababes Tour runs from the 19th May to the 8th August then a big show at the London O2 on 15th September.

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollage. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... Just when you think you're having a hard time, you'll get given it back, I'm sure, in other areas. So that's what I think was my little blessing to come, was that we haven't had the terrible twos. But before all of that... Hello, hello, welcome back to another podcast. I have something I need to ask you all. I am feeling really old because this week I started watching The Hunger Games with my 11 year old and it's that

really weird thing of watching something I spent my misspent 20s watching with my kids. Alison, tell me, as a tween age mother, are you doing the same? I am, I am. My 12-year-old and I, this week, we've been watching the Twilight films and it is kind of weird. I'm so with you. There's quite a lot of sexy time in the Twilight films. No, it's all very, it's all just kissing, there's a lot of intense emotions, which is kind of quite weird, but it's all very safe and fine for 12-year-olds. Well, our guest today has younger children than us. So she is at the coalface of toddlerhood and reception, which is a whole different ballgame. And you're also at that coalface, Alison. So, you know, we can talk to her about that. Would you like to give us the

big shiny intro, please? Yes. Today, we are so excited to say that would you like to give us the big shiny intro yes today we are so excited to say that we have a member of one of the biggest girl bands of the last 20 years in fact she is an OG member of the sugar babes they first hit the top 10 in the year 2000 with their debut single overload and since then Siobhan Donaghy has left the group and then reunited with the original members to record more music. Shiga Babe's latest album, The Lost Tapes, hit number two in the UK download charts when it was released recently. And they've got festival dates and gigs coming up later this year. Welcome Siobhan Donaghy. Hello, how are you doing? That was such a lovely intro,

thank you. How are you doing? I'm really good. We're coming to the end of the school holidays, looking forward to having a minute to myself in a couple of days time. But other than that, very well. How are you guys? Much the same. Ladies and gentlemen, today is the first day my children went back after the Easter holidays. I love them dearly and I loved walking away from the school gates this morning with a friendly wave and six whole hours to do what I want. My youngest two are four and they're on an inset day today, which is like the dreaded thing where you think that they're going back to school but no one more day a bonus day oh I thought mine were going back on Thursday and I now realize it's Wednesday so although I've still got another two days that feels like a bonus in itself just to bring it forward one day I was actually speaking to one of our previous podcast

guests this morning a lady called Annie Price and she did that thing where she was sat at the school gates and it was an inset day. So Siobhan take us way way well that's a bit rude not way way back just a little bit back to when you were 13. That is way back definitely. I didn't want to be rude um and you were signed to a record company. That's bloody young to be like in the spotlight. How was it? I met my manager when I was 12. And we were 13 when we got together as a band. So my manager was also managing Mutia as a solo artist. And we really wanted to work together. So we did a studio session together and on the second day Mutia brought her friend Keisha from school who also liked to sing we sang together all of a sudden we were a girl band you know you're at an age where you I mean a lot of people

say that you know they've always wanted to sing and always wanted to be in music as much as I always loved singing and music I had no confidence and I can't think of it I couldn't think of anything worse than getting up in front of people and singing but you know you're at an age where you don't know what you want to do with you know with your life and as a career so I kind of just went along with it but now being a mother myself I can't imagine what that was like for my parents because it's um you know they were you know we had they were our legal guardians and had to come everywhere with us so as well as holding down jobs and and taking their three children here there and everywhere you know my mum also had to sit through like all night studio sessions so it was bizarre

it took me I used to have a lot of FOMO with my friends that I was missing out but I I quite enjoy now that it was uh the school of life that I went to. You're right, that must have been strange for your parents. And now that you're a parent now, looking back on that, what kind of advice did they give you? Can you remember the kind of things that your mum said to you at the time? So I'm the youngest of three girls and me and my two sisters, even now, with every year that goes by,

we get more and more baffled about how relaxed our parents were like they never asked us to do our homework we had to be self-motivated and everything which is great right and that's not to say they didn't care because they totally did but they had this stance about us just wanting to be happy and and so they didn't really have any guidance around you know like they never spoke to us about you know the fact that they would like us to go to university because they didn't really have any guidance around, you know, like they never spoke to us about, you know, the fact that they would like us to go to university because they didn't themselves. And although they would totally want us to reach our potential, they were just very laid back about everything. And I hope me and my two sisters don't go the other way and become, you know, that's what they say.

That's what happens, don't they? That I'll now become like some helicopter parent and really push my kids for like academic excellence or something. We as a generation are accused in the press and quite heavily labelled as over parenting and over protecting. And my parents were very much the same as yours. If I didn't do my homework, it wasn't their problem. It was my problem. And if I didn't get things in on time or you know they were very much just a case of okay carry on and I find it really hard to do with my kids already and it's like it sounds like you've had the same experience how are you going to not do it with your kids I think I'm already that parent that that, you know, I worry about everything. How do you stop yourself from worrying? I don't know.

I'm trying with my son, you know, obviously he's only in reception. I don't have to worry about any of these things really at the moment. Like the only thing I'm worried about at the moment is like, is he happy? And does he like learning? I just want him to really enjoy school because I do. I love school. my favorite subject was math I think out of all three of us me and my two sisters I think the assumption would have been that I would have been the academic one but I mean that didn't work that didn't quite work out but I did really enjoy school so that's all that is you know for now that's all I really want for

the children is that they enjoy it. Something that gets talked about a lot these days but wasn't back then is like mental health of children and it's been reported that your career took its toll on your mental health back then but that must have been a really hard thing to go through considering it wasn't something that was discussed that much. I sometimes wonder like would I have been the same had I not got into the music industry so young like I don't know what the triggers were for setting off what has been really a lifelong battle with anxiety and and then the odd time depression like I definitely suffered with depression as a teenager and then I had a little bout of um postnatal depression with my second

with Vivian but generally anxiety is something that just sort of follows me around you know always but then like you know when you you know we're just much more open about speaking about it now and I think we have you know that's much healthier so I think you know perhaps you know past generations really did just bottle it up and it came out in other kind of negative you know ways you know I can't imagine what I would be pushed to if I couldn't talk about it you know there's lots of new terminologies now for you know I would never have even said you know anxiety I wouldn't have known what what I was experienced other than I always felt a little bit um I was just always

you know quite nervous about everything. But it's that terminology is so interesting because I remember like when we were growing up, you'd people say, oh, she's living on her nerves and that kind of thing. Do you remember that kind of terminology? And actually what they mean is this person's having a hard time with anxiety at the moment so now with this mindset and with this knowledge what would you tell teenage Siobhan in the sugar babes like when she was struggling what if you could tell her one thing what would it be I think I would tell myself that none of it matters all that much I well I think

everyone especially as a teenager you think people are looking at you you know as intensely and in and as in much detail as you would look at yourself but really no one has time to worry about anyone else they're too busy worrying about themselves and you know I didn't want to put a foot wrong I didn't want to sing a wrong note. I didn't want to sing a wrong note. And I mean, honestly, who cares? You know, this past year that we've been back on stage with the Sugar Babes, I've had the best time, you know, and I get up there and I dance like I'm out on a Saturday night with my girlfriend. And it's like, I don't care who's watching because I don't know what has happened to me since becoming a mum but you know I don't get to go out all that often and I just think you know we just got to enjoy it and I love

my job now more like way more than ever before so yeah just to try and not take things quite as seriously as I did back then. It must have been so hard as well to have been going through all of that but also dealing with like the press attention that you guys had. Because, you know, back in the early noughties, it felt like, you know, the boy bands and the girl bands and the pop stars were never off the front pages. And it was reported a lot about, you know, how well you and your bandmates got on or didn't get on but I'm guessing that you are firm friends since you are here over 20 years later working together. Things were definitely different back then we definitely had our difficulties I think that you know the three of us being quite as young as we were trying to navigate our way through a very adult world and very male dominated

world let's be honest it kind of still is you know we probably turned a lot of that those nerves and worries kind of on each other or if one of us was a bit quiet we'd think you know oh they're moody and they're annoyed with me you know because that's just what you worry about you know in your in your in your teenage years you know that just doesn't exist anymore there's just like this there's just this given right that we're like we're sisters we've worked together forever we absolutely know we've got each other's backs therefore if someone's not having a great day instead of thinking what you know what's their problem with me it's more about looking at them going what can I what can I do to help and so yeah we've just got a really lovely relationship it's very nice. And now that you're back in the limelight as it

were how do you think that's affecting the kind of mum you are you keep your kids super private but do you think it's affecting how you parent is it changing the sort of mum you are or influencing it? I think it's making me a better mum because, and this sounds awful, but I do like going out to work. That doesn't sound awful. I hear you. I'm here for the majority, but when I go through long periods of being a stay-at-home mum, it is the hardest job. And, you know, I do get frustrated with them. And, you know, I have to acknowledge that I do need some adult time and some, you know, brain stimulation from my peers. You know, it when I am with them all the time.

And I also think they appreciate me more. They see my you know, they see my husband go out to work. And, you know, I definitely felt for a while that, you know, it was just natural that they took me for granted. And I was sort of, you know, the punching bag at home. But, you know, yet they're so excited to see daddy when he comes home. And now we've got a bit more of a balance, you know, and I've had to push some of the mother load over to my husband. He's wonderful. But, you know, even the best ones.

They're still not mummy. No, you know, I think our brains do work in different ways. And, you know, I appreciate that comes off like I'm totally stereotyping which I guess in a way I am but in in our household that is that is how it is and um I do you know that it is I find it a lot you know like to suddenly flip between home life with everything that goes with that booking the holidays ordering you know the you know the next size up in the school uniform, and, you know, what are they doing next Wednesday? And, you know, you know, when it's like, it's everything, I can't even think on the top of my head what any of those things are.

And then suddenly, you know, I have to sit down in the studio and, and write a song and, you know, your brain could just combust some days. So I am trying, we're trying to get a better balance at home. It's the mental load, isn't it? It's like, even if you have got a really good balance between the two parents at home, usually, and I am, and again, I'm talking broadly, probably stereotyping here, but you do find that it's the mum that carries the mental load, that you're the one thinking about the school uniform and... And shit, I haven't got a party present for that party on Thursday. that carries the mental load that you're the one thinking about the school uniform and and shit I

haven't got a party present for that party on Thursday and oh my god who's picking up from ballet tonight my husband took my son to a birthday party and then messaged me going oh I didn't bring a birthday present you couldn't just pop out could you and get a birthday present so the whole time they were at the party I then went out got the present wrapped the present drove it down to them I was like come on now but um you know it takes a bit of practice doesn't it I guess with the handing over but it's nice as well because I think well especially at the moment and I don't think it'll be for much longer with my boy I'm definitely the favorite so I'll take that it's very it's very much um mum mum is um the favorite at the moment so I quite like it when it's that way around how do you guys split your parenting duties and it sounds like

you've got things pretty pretty well worked out even if the the breasty present buying does go awry sometimes well I moved house um a year ago to be closer to my family, to be closer to the village, because I didn't have one where I was. So we survived, well barely survived my son's first four years without having family close by. And in the end, we just caved and we've moved out. And so I've got my family very close to us within like 20 minutes so they help a lot my husband is full-time he's never been able to work at home pretty much not really even through the pandemic and so yeah I mean he I mean actually do we have a good balance because really what we what we do at the moment I work a lot over the summer holidays, right? Because it's the festival season, but often it's like Thursday, Friday onwards.

So Chris at the moment uses his holiday days to cover me. So I don't know how sustainable that is moving forward, but that is our option at the moment because I know anyone out there, if they've ever tried to get ad hoc childcare, I swear it doesn't exist. I mean, I keep trying and then I find somewhere it doesn't, does it? It's really difficult. It'd be much easier if I just had like a real, much more structured thing happening, you know, on the same days every week. But I don't. And so we just kind of, yeah, we make it work somehow, you know on the same days every week but I don't and so we just kind of yeah we make it work

somehow you know. And you very deliberately kept your kids out of the limelight was that something you decided as a couple right from the beginning you wanted to do or has it just kind of happened organically? I became a bit nervous about the how judgmental people are on Instagram about the way people look like I mean I think my kids are just so gorgeous but I don't really want people nitpicking at my my kids and or even just being like they're gorgeous you know because they are you know the sum of who they are is much bigger than that and then I worried about putting across you know just like the the loveliest pictures of us having a nice time and and it just not being you know a true representation of any given day in any given week because you know I I we rarely go through a day you know when your kids

are really little you you know I'm yet to do the later years but you rarely have a day where there's not something like frustrating or hard that you're negotiating and so I felt like I had to make a call like it's either warts and all I'm putting everything out there so that I was being honest about my experience or not at all and I kind of felt like I didn't have the time or the brain power to do that and so this is probably one of the first times I'll be talking about, you know, I mean, me as a parent publicly. I did one podcast previously where we touched on it for sure, but I've never really talked much about my experience.

I mean, you know, both my children, I started trying for children when I was 30. I ended up having IVF for both my children. So I had some help along the way. And I think that by the time I was pregnant with Ford, you know, I already felt like I'd been through the mill. And then I had a difficult birth, as lots of people do. And, you know, you end up i'd been through the mill and then i had a difficult birth as lots of people do and you know you i you end up just kind of being on this train that you can't get off and i don't really feel like i've ever been able to stop and you know other than taking

pictures at home i haven't been able to document it very well along the way i haven't had the head space to explain how i've felt a lot of the time and I think that's probably the same for a lot of people in those early years you're so in it I wouldn't even know where to begin to put my life on Instagram that put that part of my life you know I think it would look quite messy. Then I think a lot of people can relate to that I think what you've just described like you know age 30 wanting to start a family and actually finding it's not just as easy as you know trying a few times a few months and then oh I'm pregnant it can turn into this huge big all-consuming life project I guess you know it's yeah I mean it was for us we had a really positive

experience um we went to Zeta West in Marylebone and it was just a really lovely like small like family orientated clinic they really took care of us you know we had we had a bit of a false start and then it worked but it worked you know pretty quickly for us we were lucky I definitely didn't have a straightforward pregnancy with Ford and that probably wasn't great for my anxiety either. Not straightforward in what way as in you were ill or he worrying for him or just you being ill? I had quite a big hematoma for about the first four or five months so I bled quite a lot is essentially what that means it's like a it's like a um like a sack of blood that is uh outside the pregnancy but it's completely potluck as to whether it will get smaller and disappear or whether it

will get bigger and consume the pregnancy so that was a worry god you had a really rough time like your baptism into pregnancy and birth was pretty hardcore yeah and it wasn't it wasn't the best birth either actually I thought it was amazing I had a I think by the end I was hallucinating I was so tired but um it was an incredible experience but I don't think it wasn't a straightforward delivery and and subsequently I had a c-section with my with my daughter that was what was recommended for me and how did you find that do you know what I really I really love that I've tried both I think it listen if I'd have been able to have like a home birth or a water

birth and like completely unassisted birth I think that I'm sure I would have favoured that over the two options I ended up with because Ford was a four-step delivery like no one wants that and um and then um with Vivian a planned c-section is really like really quite calm I quite enjoyed it but then my face went numb on one side and they had to get some medication for me they're worried about my blood pressure and stuff so but after that you know I was like I'm really lucky I've got two lovely healthy children and and the shop is shut it's funny isn't it because I had two caesareans one planned one not and oh gosh I don't think we've ever interviewed a woman on this podcast who for whom the journey from conceiving a baby to holding a baby in their arms has been the way they expected it to be and that's really telling

that none of us either it's telling about what we have in our heads as young women about what pregnancy and birth is like I think there's probably that over the experience because nobody ever says oh yeah well I got pregnant I had a baby it all went marvelously nobody I'm always suspicious when people do see that I'm like really are you lying I've definitely I've definitely got a couple of friends who just had a really and actually my eldest sister she said that she enjoyed the birth so much that she would like to have done it the following day. I've never forgotten that she said that. And both her and my mother told me and my other sister that it would just be, you know, bad period pain. And you know, it's fine. Bad period pain. And

afterwards I was really cross because I thought maybe they had just fibbed to us because they, you know, don't want to scare people. But no, they really did just have a really positive experience. So I've really tried quite hard not to feel hard done by by it because I just didn't have that wonderful, rosy, you know, experience. No, I'm with you there. It felt a bit more Armageddon. It's very hard not to feel sad if you haven't had the experience you wanted to have, I think. I think I'm just so overwhelmingly grateful that the science was out there

to give me that my two children that I just you know I count my blessings and I move on I mean I do think my physical recovery from both of them was really long honestly I would say two years on but for both of them to feel you know just completely normal again you know and but now I feel like I'm out of the woods. You said you suffered from PND as well that must have been hard on top of the physical recovery as well. So with Vivian I kind of felt like the minute I got pregnant I got a little bit down the dumps I don't know what happened it's obviously a hormonal thing it's really weird because my overwhelming symptom of pregnancy with ford is that i laughed a lot that's a brilliant symptom it was my only symptom

and sometimes i'd be out with with friends and you know they'd laugh i'd laugh but then my laugh would keep going which everyone found really funny for a while and after a few minutes i'd have to excuse myself and go and continue laughing in in the ladies room and I would literally have to think like dead rabbits dead rabbits because I look like a nutcase I've never heard that no I haven't I've never heard this and and I was about eight months pregnant and I was driving and I had to pull the car over because I thought I'm going to crash the car I could not stop laughing so for me then to have got pregnant with my daughter and to swing completely the other way, I was like, for crying out loud, when is this journey going to become a little bit more predictable or

straightforward? But that kind of makes a bit of sense, doesn't it? If your hormones can make you unhappy and low, then of course, why shouldn't they make you feel the opposite is that kind of you know highs and lows yeah I mean I still I still enjoyed both pregnancies I think if I could if I could be pregnant forever honestly I would I just loved it oh god I vomited out of my nose every day for nine months I did not love it I got to the point where I could actually decide I had to decide what I was going to have for dinner on which ones I preferred bringing back up it was that oh my god I had one day of sickness with Ford and I remember I know I'm so sorry I'm so sorry because you were laughing so much yeah I was too busy laughing but I would say I remember at the

time thinking my god I could not do this every day so yeah I've actually got a cousin who's pregnant at the moment and she says she just stopped feeling sick every day and she's like four and a half months pregnant I'm like god love you so how did you get out of that period of feeling low after Vivian was born? Did you speak to someone? What did you do to kind of help yourself to recover? So it was completely different postpartum experience because we were in lockdown when I had Vivian. So that was quite a hardcore lockdown. Everyone was working from home. So my husband was at home. So as much as he was working downstairs, he was there with me. And that really was a game changer. Also, I did qualify to have someone come and help me because I had a baby completely forgot this until I started talking about I had a postnatal doula with with Vivian and she would come in and cook for me and you know hold Vivian if I if I needed

you know if I wanted to go and have a shower or something it really was life-changing and I think you know we I definitely looked much more into that kind of 40 day confinement and things like that from other cultures for Vivian, because I didn't do that with Ford. I did the absolute opposite. I carried on working until he was nearly six months old and nearly killed myself doing it. And I think as a result, both me and Ford probably really suffered because he was tongueied when he was born. So I struggled to breastfeed with him. In the end, I ended up combi feeding until he was six months old. But it just became really confusing. I couldn't work out why he was such an unsettled baby when he just never slept.

And it turned out he had cow's milk protein allergy and it was just really late diagnosed in him. And so for Vivian, I was like I you know I owe it to this child and to myself to just be you know in the room you know get everything off to you know a good start so I made my diet you know 100% dairy free before she came along and we just had a completely different experience it was clear that she had the same thing with the dairy allergy, but we were getting ahead of it in making sure, you know, the breastfeeding worked for her.

It's interesting, isn't it? Because even the difference between my first child and my second child, the conversation around pulling up the drawbridge, giving yourself that kind of fourth trimester where you listen to what your baby is trying to tell you listen to what your body's trying to tell you had changed and there was only four years but it was the difference between 2011 and 2015 and now in 2023 that conversation has moved on so much more again that people are I hope that mums are more aware that you're not just expected to be parading your newborn around Sainsbury's three days after you've given birth you should

be in bed you should be learning about them and it's really lovely to hear you say that you did that second time around I do try and I hope I don't scare my friends now when they're having children but I do I you know I buy them I'm trying to remember the name of the book it's called like the first 40 days it's a it's a I think it's an American Korean woman that that wrote it so I buy that for my friends now and just tell them to take that really seriously because you know what some of them you know I you know I speak to them you know you know a few weeks weeks in or more like a couple of months in to see, you know, how are they getting on and stuff. And, you know, I'm expecting them to have had the same experience of me as me, you know, this colicky baby.

And there's like nothing you can do but, you know, rock them day and night and do your absolute best to comfort them. And some of them are just like, oh, my God, you know, just this dream baby that just sort of you know can't wake them up they just love to sleep and i just and that's another thing i think oh my god why didn't i have that baby but you know i look at my boy now he's such a character and he's so funny i do just think he was sent to test me and then my you know my second born vivian I always say she's just like a little Tamagotchi feed her keep her warm you know from the minute she could talk it was like night night mummy and she just puts herself to sleep and me and even now me and my husband are like oh my god it's amazing like did you just see that she's fallen asleep? I was so fascinated because you know that would have

just been it just never happened with my with my boy you know you had to go to great great lengths to get him to fall asleep. That's so nice so that you can appreciate that because if you hadn't had that experience first time around then you would just think well this is just motherhood why are people complaining about how hard being a mum is it's so easy it must be harder having it the other way around in fact my middle sister did she had she had her easy one first I mean I say easy one like none of them are actually easy but easier one first and then her second born was sent to test her so she had her her second born and I had four at the same time so we were both kind of battling with these tricky tricky babies at home at the same time so we were both kind of battling with these tricky

tricky babies at home at the same time at least. I have a theory that everyone has their golden parenting stage so we're all we're all naturally good at one bit of it so I love babies and newborns and I can't do toddlers toddlers do my nut so Alison what's yours I think mine is between the ages of six and nine that's my golden because they're fun you can like go on fun days out with them they don't have loads of tantrums it's like they're fun to hang out with Siobhan oh so you might be surprised at mine because I used to say after Ford if someone could just if I could just give birth to a two-year-old and just skip the first two years I think I would because that is the bit I just find really hard if I if I didn't you know but if it wasn't that

I had a bit of a tricky baby it was that I physically found it so hard with the recovery. I suspect you'd have a physical recovery after giving birth to a two-year-old but I like I mean as soon as as soon as they're walking like very steadily I thought that for me is the fun bit both mine were not really I mine really did not have they did not go through the terrible twos, neither of them. So, you know, just when you think you're having a hard time, you'll get given it back, I'm sure in other areas. So that's what I think was my little, my little blessing to come was that we haven't had the terrible twos. I think my daughter might be a three and age of those shortly. So maybe I'm about to get paid that. Don't say it she might not. So you've got a summer of touring coming up how does that you've mentioned this briefly but

do the kids come with you do you leave them with Chris how do you kind of do the family pop star juggle? So generally they don't come with me I consider it to be just too loud and a bit manic and so last year I got it into my head that I really wanted to bring them to Glastonbury because it would be such an incredible experience. Thank God I didn't. It was mental. I don't know if you've heard about our performance there but they had to shut the entire area down because it was so busy. People were like jumping over the fence and pushing through and it was so they had to try and project the sound so far out of the tent but I mean imagine how loud it was on stage it was phenomenal so I'm so pleased they weren't there because it would

have been a bit mad max for them but they have been to one of our shows and I'll definitely cherry pick a few things this summer that I think might be nice and like we're supporting Take That in Hyde Park like that'll be really fun for them but beyond that no I'll mum during the week and then Chris takes over for the weekend I think it's it's nicer for them I think and then they can carry on with all the birthday parties and all the other things that are going on. So what can we expect from your shows this year? Is it mostly newer material or do you throw in a few oldies as well? It's a real mix. I'd say to be honest it's mostly back catalogue like when you're doing the festivals you don't want to test the audience too much music that they might not know as well and that they haven't

they haven't bought the ticket for the festival necessarily just to see you so you know you've got to be conscious that you're playing to a broader audience but we are going to put one or two newer things in and start to mess around with the the track list in a little bit but we had such an honestly last year was so brilliant I just hope that we it's similar this year because it's just such a lovely catalogue to play out like it's so like everyone knows all the words and they sing along and it's it's it's just extremely feel good like for us and and the audience I think so how does if you've got sugar babes 2023 here and Sugar Babes 2000 here, how do they feel different? I think what you just did with your hands there is actually really important because I think 2000 Sugar Babes feels very heavy.

It feels very weighted and very intense. And 2023 Sugar Babes feels the opposite. It feels light as air. It honestly feels like we're on cloud nine. And just like really, I mean, honestly, just living our best lives. You know, I just, it's such a, it was for me, you know, with, you know, how my parenting journey went, it was so, it was such a welcome thing back into my world and at the right time. And I love the balance that I get. I'm at home most of the the time but I get to go off and do this amazing thing and and I think that that balance for me is is is what I need for sure. How does

it work with what you're allowed to perform because obviously Sugar Babes went through quite a few different variations of you know of lineup after you left but there are so many classic Sugar Babes songs that we know that you didn't perform on first time right are you allowed to perform them as sugar babes now oh absolutely I mean the thing is you can perform any song by any artist globally but also you know the history of the sugar base is a complicated one and each subsequent member that came in they would they would play out historical songs and so it's kind of it's kind of nothing new it's i thought it was going to be weird for me i wanted to embrace it for the fans because i know they want to hear it i wanted to embrace

it for mature and keisha because it's important for them that they get to celebrate you know the legacy but actually the the side effect for me has been that I've really enjoyed it so I'm happy that I've been able to be that more sort of light-hearted more light-hearted version of myself these days that that we can just kind of get on with it because I mean you know it's kind of a waste of worry and energy you know trying to pick out which ones and which ones not. You know, I thought maybe we'd only do up until, you know, Muchia left, but Muchia's happy to do the songs later on as well. So we were just like, isn't it just easier if we open up the whole catalogue and just cherry pick and have a lovely time.

I just love how zen this all sounds. I know. Like, I want to be a sugar babe. Let's ignore the fact I can't sing for toffee. But it just sounds really good fun. I just love it. I love it too. We only allow people in our inner circle now to work with us if they are zen. They have to have totally, like, good intentions towards us or we have no time for it and I feel like we're kind of seasoned enough that we can we can see you know you know the good stuff from the from the bad so

yeah we're trying to navigate it as best we can. How important was it to you guys then to reclaim the Sugar Babes name after a few years of being known as MKS? You know I never wanted us to be known as MKS or Mityib Keisha Siobhan. It never sat well with me. And I don't think it did with the other girls either. It was a legal thing where it was, it should have always been ours. And I know sort of legally, I can't say an awful lot about why we couldn't use it. But actually, legally, we were always able to use it so it was a it was

this weird gray area that we had to try and navigate and in the end it did take a number of years but we just pushed and pushed and were like we you know we could have just gone out and used it and kind of seen what the backlash was but we felt more comfortable if we just had the trademark and did it all properly so then we could go out and just relax which is what we've been able to do now you know it's it was it was decided when when it came up for a review it was decided very quickly that of course it was for the three of us and you know we're happy that that's the case it just it just makes it too confusing for people I think you know you can think it's a given that we've got such unusual names that you know when when in combination you know who it is but but actually you know like on a on a

festival poster it gets lost you know they just need to see sugar babes so um so yeah we're happy it's it's much more streamlined which noughties bands 90s noughties they're all reuniting who do you want to see most who if you could cherry pick one from back in the day who would you have oh I'm trying to think who would you have Alison I know who I'd have oh go on who would you have I'd have Oasis back together do you know what I'd love to see that just because that's my teenage years like dancing in the pub to Oasis so I'd have Oasis. A lot of a lot of the people that I loved back then were solo artists it was the Mariahs and you know Monica and Brandy obviously sang together but only for one song kind of think there's loads

of like R&B artists that I love and then other people like SWV and I have to have a look because so many people are you know you don't realize are actually still touring they might not be touring in the UK but they're probably already back together whoever I'm gonna yeah probably I'm looking forward to seeing take that in the summer you lucky bugger it's gonna be lovely give them a stroke for me a slightly seedy stroke in a kind of oh my husband's like obsessed with them it's so funny so he's so proud of me that we're supporting them no it's brilliant that's a big gig you've got to take the kids to that one definitely i think so i think so listen siobhan thank you so much for joining us today

it has been so nice to chat to you and hear all about your motherhood journey up to this point thank you so much oh thanks for having me on thank you bye