The Netmums Podcast - S10 Ep5: Sophie Ellis-Bextor: Life is busy when you have 5 kids!

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Verified disco queen Sophie Ellis-Bextor joins Wendy and Alison this week, to talk about life as a mum of five boys, what it was like to hold a Kitchen Disco every week in lockdown, and her new album "HANA" which is out on the 2nd June.

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollage. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... I think that's what I got quite addicted to because I had my first and I was like, oh wow, he's a whole guy, let's find out about him. And then another one came and he was totally different. Okay, cool. Let's find out about you. And then I thought, oh, I wonder who else is out there. But before all of that... This episode of The Netmums Podcast is brought to you by Aldi. Wendy, I've got a question for you. What's your guilty parenting pleasure?

Oh, I'd probably say it's gobbling up cold fish fingers from my kids' plates after they've abandoned dinner in favour of watching the telly. I do that too. I reckon my guilty pleasure is sneaking out and escaping my children to have a lovely browse of my local Aldi alone. I am so with you. What I love about Aldi is they have an excellent range of great value products. They even have an award-winning baby and toddler range which includes weaning essentials, nappies and wipes. It's funny you should say that because another friend told me that she switched to Aldi Mamiya and it's giving her big savings. Yes, plus with Netmums and Aldi, new parents can get a pack of newborn nappies absolutely free. So log on to our site and let your friends know about this

awesome opportunity with Netmums and Aldi. Right, don't tell my family, but I'm sneaking off to Aldi right now. I'm aware that I'm starting to sound like a broken record and I start every single podcast with a moan, but hear me out. Yesterday, I was just having a nice little glass of rosé. The sun had come out for the first time this May, might we add, and then I heard a scream and I ran outside

and my daughter had fallen out of the trampoline and she's broken her arm in three places. And that was my Sunday. Alison, please God help me. Something's got to change. I can't top that. I'm so sorry, Wendy, when you told me, especially a trampoline accident, that's every parent's like worst nightmare, isn't it? I was so sorry. Everybody in A&E just rolled their eyes and were like trampoline I was like yeah I'm nothing if not predictable we will ask our guest give us an intro as to who this lovely lady is and we'll see with five children there's got to have been a broken bone in there somewhere let's ask well I'm kind of hoping that she adds a

bit of sparkle and a bit of sunshine to your day so So let's see, let's see, because I mean, it's not every day that you get to chat to a modern day disco queen. But today, Wendy, we're getting to do exactly that. Our guest is not only a mum of five children, the youngest being four and the oldest being an actual grown up, but she's a singer whose career started in the 90s with the indie band The Audience and morphed into a glitterball fest with pop and disco hits spanning three decades. Sophie Ellis-Bexter's seventh album, Hannah, is out on June 2nd and it's filled with uplifting and soulful pop songs, exactly what you need, Wendy. So let's all shimmy in our sequins and say welcome to the podcast, Sophie.

Hello, how are you doing? Hi, Sophie. It's lovely to have you on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's arm. I wouldn't say it's not a moan, that's just what happened to you yesterday. You've got five boys, Sophie. There's got to have been the odd A&E trip for Broken Bone in there somewhere. Well, touching wood, as I say, there's no one's broken a bone.

That's impressive. I hadn't broken a bone myself until just before I started doing Strictly Come Dancing and I broke my toe. And I didn't tell anyone because I was worried that there might be some sort of insurance thing that would mean I couldn't do the show. I did all of the launch show and my first waltz with the broken toe and it was quite uncomfortable but it's all right especially in those heels my god yeah it just got worse as the day would go on but you know with the toe you just have to get on with it anyway but yeah I just thought if I mentioned that they might be like oh if we knew that sorry we can't have you here so I just just worked through it so you must ask this a lot but how is life as a mum of five boys busy yeah I mean mum of anything really I think it's busy isn't it and um I I mean it's the only life I know in terms of you know the job

that I have and my husband has we're both musicians um and actually just before I spoke to you I was just going through the diary for the next little bit and my eldest sonny who's 19 was in the room and uh I was saying to him oh I said I don't think I work more than an average person but it's just because my work is always a different shape that I think that's the thing that makes it sometimes quite chaotic but then I think on the flip of that being a musician and having quite a chaotic life where you have to react quite quickly to things changing is actually quite good practice for motherhood because you have to roll with the unpredictable and there's much unpredictable

absolutely yeah even more I've just sent the poor thing off to school because I was like well take some paracetamol go and show off your cast it's fine I think that's a good idea it's good to be distracted I mean it's not you have to get on with it don't you and she's I mean a lot of kids I don't know about you but when I was a kid I was always quite jealous of those with the cast. I was like, that looks awesome. Totally, totally. Now, Sophie, people do seem to be obsessed with mums wanting to have girls. Have you had many comments over the years when you've been pregnant or between babies about you trying for a girl? I have. It wasn't the first couple, I don't think.

I think it started to creep in and I found it really baffling. But then I realised that there was a through thread though and it was that the people that made comments about whether I was having a boy or a girl next I'd say 90% of the time there weren't people who were going to end up meeting my kids or knew any of my kids or anything like that it was more like um I suppose it's a bit like when people talk about the weather or something it's like a thing to say and I think I just and once I realized that because anyone that knows me and the kids they can see that they're such different people it's not like I've had the same child five times they just happen to all have willy and I just think beyond that that's like the main thing they have in common do you know what I mean but then beyond that they're all very different so I think that kind of took the pressure

off really it was like I remember sitting down next to a guy at dinner I didn't I never saw him before or since and he was quite sort of horrified at me being quite chilled I think I was pregnant maybe with my fourth or my fifth and he was like and I never found out what I was having but I said it's probably going to be another boy but I don't mind I just wanted to have people I don't mind you know what gender they are and he was like well that's a really good attitude for someone in your situation but for your sake I hope it's a girl and all this and then I thought I nearly said to him I tell you what why don't you tell me what kids you hope I have and I'll give you that answer and then you can go home happy thinking I have whatever you think I should have. And I'll go home to what I really have. And I'll be happy too. That's fine.

So the other end of that is, do you also get people always kind of saying, Oh, are you done now? Are you having a sixth? Do you get that whole, I think all women get that question at some point, whether you have one or none or seven. Do you get that kind of, Sophie, is there another one going to come? I think for me, it was more of the tipping point was three, because I think when I had two and I was having a third, they say, oh, one more. And then when I had three, they'd go, are you done now? I think, yeah, once you go beyond a sort of average big family i feel like if you've got three or four kids that's like a a a large small family but once you have five you've tipped into a

small big family it's a slightly different vibe i think yeah with crazy well i think we should do some pr for boys because i think, yeah, you're right. You've had, you know, individual people and, you know, we shouldn't really be focusing on the gender. But what are the brilliant things about having boys? Well, I don't... Brilliant things about having boys? I only know what it's like to have my boys. I mean, I just find there's a line in Lost in Translation

where Bill Murray is talking to Scarlett Johansson about his kids. And he says, you have your children and then they turn out to be the most interesting, nicest people you've ever met. And I think that's a really astute line. And I think obviously my kids can absolutely infuriate me and, you know, it can be a bit madcap. But actually, when I have time to, you know, you like discover new things about how they see the world or they make a joke or something. And I think it's really underrated, isn't it? That thing of just seeing someone you've known since dot, like coming into their own and like developing I love all that stuff and seeing what they're interested in and finding out something they did

that you had no idea they did like a book they read or something they listened to or you know something they got up to I just really like it and the bigger they get the better I think I really I love the relationship I have with my eldest it's really fun so yeah I think that's that's the thing I like about having lots of kids I think that's what I got quite addicted to because I had my first and I was like oh wow he's a whole guy let's find out about him and then another one came and he was totally different okay cool let's find out about you and then I thought oh I wonder who else is out there who can we create I wonder again and I wonder again it's so interesting you saying that actually about you know them reading a book that you didn't had no idea they'd read I remember clearly when my eldest who's 12 I started going to school

and she had this whole life away from me and she was learning things and doing things and that it was amazing her coming home and telling me stuff that she'd done I was like wow I didn't expect this at all yeah I know that happened to me the other day with my 14 year old talking about some book and I was like you haven't read that and he's like yeah I read it in library at school yeah I think well that's really fun and then it's also like they're so and I've said it already but they are really different people and I find that really amusing as well like that they've all got to rub along inside each other in this house. It's quite a lot. I mean, I've definitely broken them in for, I don't know,

any future cohabiting they might have to do. They're all quite tolerant. I've got three of them in one bedroom as well, so they have to put up with quite a lot. Tolerant and house trained. That's all you can ask for, really. Let's have a go. I'll have a go. The house trained, coming on, can ask for really let's have a go i'll have a

go the house train get coming on coming on with that work in progress yeah so discussing yesterday in my situation you've already said that the juggle is very much real when it comes to being a mother and your podcast spinning plate sees you talking to mums about how they juggle absolutely everything what's the biggest takeaway you've taken to home after speaking with so many women about how they spin all the plates so I speak to I've termed it working women who happen to be mothers because I think the the chat about motherhood is sometimes like the icebreaker I think I've actually just got as well a lot of curiosity about people's relationship with their work and what makes them tick and how they allow themselves

the space to do what they do because I think that was actually the thing that I struggled with the most when I became a mum was being giving myself the freedom to be selfish with what I needed to do what I do. So I think that's where the conversations came out of. But the biggest takeaway, I suppose it's just that, well, how relatable a lot of things are, no matter how you see things on the surface, but also what can be achieved, actually. People are really exciting with what they can still, the mountains they can still climb. I mean, not every guest I have is a high achiever, but a lot of them are.

And some of these women are extraordinary. And it's definitely also helped alleviate some of my guilt about the times when I have to work away or when I've tried to make sure that I've done a good job and it's meant that I've had to compromise a bit on things in the house. It's just an ongoing thing, isn't it, really? I think I'm still working through it probably. Aren't we all? Yeah. Ever-evolving beast. That's the wonderful thing about podcasts, isn't it? It's just listening to those conversations, especially between women, I find, and then you just get little nuggets that stay in your mind and do alleviate the guilt or help in some situation. Exactly. And, you know, we start off talking about how motherhood might have affected us.

But then I guess because I talk to women from quite a broad range of generations as well, it's also I've realized helped me have a little bit more of a map about the next bit of my life as well. I'm 44 now and it's nice to talk to people who are in their 50s, 60s. I've even spoken to Mary Berry, I think she's a couple of years off 90 and it's just interesting hearing different perspectives as well from growing up in different times. You became a mum in your 20s, is that right? And you weren't very long into your relationship. So what was that like being a new mum quite young with a new relationship? How did that pan out? Well, it turned out better than it might have done. I mean, I think we'd only been going out for six weeks.

So I think the fact that it probably galvanized our relationship actually and I think for us as well Richard and I it felt like from quite early on that we were we were three we were a family um and in fact Sonny my oldest was born a couple of months early so when he was born we'd been dating for eight months so it was pretty much as fast as you can be three I think I mean looking back it was pretty crazy intense particularly going through having a premature baby as well but Richard was brilliant he really took it in his stride actually even though I think Sonny might have been the first baby he'd ever really held he didn't really know kids whereas I grew up as the eldest in my family with lots of little siblings and in fact my sister

Martha who I'm 11 years older she was born 10 weeks early so I'd had an experience of that and seen a happy ending with it so I think for all that was going on all the sort of swirl of everything in the outside of it at the heart of it I think we were both quite excited and happy and looking forward to it I mean it was you know I felt I probably felt all the emotions that every new mum does it's a lot of it was glorious but I also found it quite isolating at times and I didn't necessarily know how I was going to work doing what my work I was in the middle of promoting my second album when I found I was having a baby and I basically just stopped with that record

quite abruptly after two singles so I had to kind of slightly find myself again I think in that regard but but I had you know I had support and my mum only lives 10 minutes away and that kind of thing so yeah. So handy. Now Sophie I class you as being one of a very select group of people who can be classed as saviors of lockdown I feel like it's you Joe Wicks the illustrator Rob Biddulph is in there you all created things to keep us sane while we were at home what was that like doing your kitchen discos every week and did you ever wonder what you started yes oh my goodness yes very much so I mean even now it's kind of quite surreal because on the one hand I could really feel the community that was building through the discos and I know

that for Richard and I it was a massive part of keeping us sane during a time that was very intense insane yes it was heavy I think also what we were doing was pretty bonkers so that was a weird way to try and keep balance but but on the other hand even though I had this sort of idea in my head of all the people that were coming over and as I say that community that was building we also weren't seeing anybody so it's quite a strange juxtaposition and in some ways it almost feels like I dreamt it or something because you know we were just getting ready at home I would choose some silly outfit to wear I was doing lots of my songs and covers and things but then we'd live stream down Richard's phone and then turn it off and be like right got put the kitchen back to normal put the carpet back down let's have

a cocktail let's have some food just very strange days but it did definitely I mean I felt real affection for everybody that came over and I also felt as much in love with music as ever because it's always been a thing I adored anyway but it was like such a strong tonic for me that it kind of reignited just the pure joy of singing along to a song you love or getting dressed up and yeah the festivals that followed since then of the tour have just been amazing like some of the best most fun gigs I've ever had I think. Well there wasn't much dressing up or much kind of just hopeless joy at that point. So I guess any opportunity to get that situation. What was it like? I homeschooled two girls and a full-time job at the time.

What was it like doing four boys, a toddler, five boys, one of whom was a toddler and homeschool and getting your sequins on every Friday and performing to increasingly thousands of people every week well the disco bit was the release and it really was like it I thought it only took up you know half an hour of the week and a bit of time to get ready like 15 minutes it was very it was very compressed that time because most of the time was very domestic and with the homeschooling you said when we went into lockdown our youngest was 14 months

sonny was 15 so in ages in between it was actually just impossible is what it was too many of the kids needed one-to-one help, but also they were freaked out as well. This was unnerving for them. So I think I quickly realized that the schooling aspect was becoming the source of a lot of tension and worry as to whether or not we were keeping up and doing it right. So I actually ended up sacking a lot of it off because I thought we're in a global pandemic. It's not like I grew up in a pandemic and I'm passing on what I learned from seeing my elders do it. This is like new territory.

So I'm just going to do what works within our four walls. I wish I had done slightly more of that with hindsight. Looking back on it now, when you look at them, you do think maybe I should have just let some of it slide.

I think us mums in particular were all very hard on ourselves with what we were supposed to be doing. Yeah. And actually you can only do what you do. And I read an article by Catlin Moran really early on that talked about her experience of being homeschooled as a choice. I do think calling it homeschooling in that time was a misnomer because people are homeschooled when the families decide that's what works for them this was emergency education very different I wasn't homeschooling my kids before that because I didn't want to and I don't think I'm particularly good at it so it was that wasn't what I wanted out of life really so I was doing it as a plaster until they can get back to school

and I think I just think it's very stressful but you know I get it everybody was trying to make do schools were reacting to what they were being told you know a lot of it came together quite quick I think the second or third lockdown whatever we started to get a bit more in our stride and the kids were getting older but that first one I just I had one baby, one at nursery, two at primary and one at secondary. It was just like, OK, this is good luck to if there's someone out there really pulling this off, then they are. I take off my invisible hat to them. It's not me. I agree. The only thing I pulled off was a margarita every day at the press conference.

I stuck with that. I managed that the whole time. Nothing else, but I managed that. Well done. Well done, Wendy. You need that. That's the full stop at the end of the day. That means you can clock off. Important. That is important. Absolutely. Now, you mentioned earlier that your mum lived nearby when you first became a mum. And something that you and your boys have in common is growing up with a famous mum. Yours, of course, course is Janet Ellis best known for presenting Blue Peter what was that like growing up for you? Well I always felt like almost Blue Peter was the sort of my sibling almost because she started doing when I was four and she finished when I was eight when she was

pregnant with my brother it was my first actual sibling so for for that period of time those four years it was like the other thing she was doing when she wasn't with me and I think yeah it was just sort of like it felt like it was just always there and I'd sometimes go along to see bits of what she was up to but mostly not mostly it was when I was at school and I'd come home after school and then she'd get in after she'd finished work and And I mean, it was just strange because all my friends were watching it as well. So it was like real part of, I don't know, sort of childhood exaggerated, I suppose, in that everybody's going home to watch that program.

But for me, it was like being sort of lived and breathed the whole time as well. But I think it also probably, I mean, my mum and I were really close throughout the whole time because that was when she was a single parent as well. And I think it probably as well put in there a little bit of a work ethic too, because this was before the days of having the teleprompter. So she had the script delivered the night before and she'd have to memorise it and then do it live on telly the next day.

It was pretty bloody impressive, I think. She was also doing parachute jumps. She did, for a while, she had the Guinness World Record for the highest altitude jump by a female civilian. So I think, yeah, I just thought a lot of it was really exciting. And I was probably, when I was little, little, I didn't understand the significance of it. But as I got older and I realised that what she was doing was actually not what everybody that what she was doing was actually not

what everybody else's parent was doing I think it probably slightly intrigued me as well the effect that having her on telly like that would have on people so I was probably quite intrigued by that as well so tell us about the new album it's how do you find inspiration for seven this one's inspired by east asia is that right yeah so in 2020 before everything tilted my mum and my eldest sunny and i all went to tokyo for a week the three of us it was sunny and my first time to japan we've always wanted to go my he was supposed to go with my mum on my stepdad john but at the time john was being treated for lung cancer and he was too unwell unfortunately to do the trip so i sort of was a very last minute thing stepped in and i started writing the album around that time so at first i was writing songs about how i pictured japan so it's kind of a fantastical idea of this landscape

and then after i came back and then everything shut down it kind of became this place I would go to in my head of a kind of I don't know sort of cartoony psychedelic kaleidoscopic place in my head that was a kind of mixture of the old and new and so yeah that's that's where the album kind of originated and the themes that came out of it really everything that was going on but it was a welcome release I mean I do feel very fortunate that I have a job where I can take any emotion and have a place to put it not everybody's lucky enough to have that catharsis really so I really love songwriting for that reason. And you're performing at lots of festivals and touring later this year aren't you um which of your songs gets the biggest reaction from the crowds when you sing it well I think if it's a lovely sunny day then Groove Jet just

always is such a like summer song it really suits the sunshine Merge on the Dance Floor I feel like has had a whole little adventure of its own and so when I do gigs with that's the one I think that people have memories associated with which is really lovely um but I've also got another song called Heartbreak uh which has got a really like it's really banging I did it with the Freemasons and that one is a really good one for getting the crowd like jumping and clapping but I've got lots of toys to play with and I think yeah I'm looking forward to putting the new songs in the set too that's like having a new toy yeah you mentioned Groovejet can we just talk about the fact that that song knocked a Spice Girl off the top spot and also

beat another Spice Girl there was a big chart battle wasn't there back in the day who was gonna get to number one that's right yeah didn't knock a spice thought off the top it just was number one mel c mel c i think you knocked her off top spot was that i was doing my research last week and she had been number one the week before you okay i didn't actually remember that well melanie c was really lovely about the song actually she's such a nice woman i've interviewed her on my podcast actually that was just very extraordinary it was really heady that experience but my main thing actually I'd come so in before that um my previous you know career in singing had come to an end before that because I was in

an indie band called The Audience when I was a teenager we got signed to Mercury and then got dropped before I even turned 20 so for for me, really what Groove Jet was about was a whole new adventure, a new journey. And so when the song was coming out, I just remember thinking, I hope that this song is just a song that people always want to hear when the sun comes out. And actually, I had no idea quite how true that would become. But that was my big hope. Because even if we've been number two, that would be amazing. That would have been an amazing result for me. And I never had anything like that kind of success before.

So I was just trying to kind of keep my noddle a little bit in the middle of the circle, really. Get your head around it a bit. It's a big thing. Well, just keep grounded because it was so ridiculous. Like the news, it was on the covers of newspapers. And I was like, this is ludicrous. It was huge at the time. keep grounded because it was so ridiculous like the news it was on the covers of newspapers and I was like this is ludicrous like it was huge at the time yeah it's like very much once in a lifetime

I think so last year you raised more than a million pounds well done congratulations for children in need by doing a dance-a-thon I'm guessing that five babies and five lots of sleepless nights helped but that must have been brutal dancing all night like that you know what though it first of all without sounding too pious it did feel like something of a privilege to be in the middle of all of that support it was really incredible feeling I've never had anything like it. Like so much like good morale. Plus, as you said, you mentioned, I've been knackered for like 20 years now. So having people actually actively be like, oh, you did so well. You must be so tired.

And look at you turning up for work and stuff. I was like, this is great. I mean, I do so many things all the time on like three hours sleep or five hours broken sleep or whatever. So to have people know I'd had no sleep and be so enthusiastic that I was still getting things done felt wonderful. I milked that for as long as I could. I think I got about two weeks out of it.

I was like, this is great. Good work. Well done. And speaking of charity work you you performed at Dean Deborah James's 40th birthday party didn't you what was that like did you stay in touch after that well yeah that's why I was there really so I'd um I'd had her over here to my house when I was doing a podcast chat with her I'd been following her story and I emailed her and said oh I'd love to speak to you and she got back to me within minutes and we had a very instant rapport and so she'd come over and when we were chatting she'd mentioned I think we were talking in the spring and she said oh I've

got my 40th birthday in October and my girlfriend's you know our university song was murder and I was like I'm I'm there count me in I'll come and sing I mean calling it a performance is quite a sort of grand term for what we've written about and it was all of her lovely old uni mates and her family house looked amazing and I when I pitched up they didn't have any equipment at all so I sang we had some stuff we couldn't make it work so I sang into have you ever seen those mics that you can get like kids mics where they've got kind of like they're gold and they've got a box on yes I used that and I just hey it beats a wooden spoon come on it's a step up for um like a footstool and our husband put the song on

like you know his iPod or whatever and we just went for it but everybody was really like so there was so much love in the room and I think obviously it was very very significant that she was at her 40th because when she got her diagnosis that was the thing that she didn't think she'd ever see and it was really special and she's just an amazing woman I mean thinking about her actually makes me feel really emotional I think I think she would have affected me even if I'd never met her I think she's one of those people yeah but when you do get to spend time with someone like that it was really lovely and her family were really gorgeous and yeah I think about them often you know so wish

them well well I know that you do that performance will have brought so much joy to her Sophie so that's so good oh thanks me too actually so before we let you go Sophie we've just talked about you bringing joy to others actually but if you had to pick one ultimately banging party tune, what would it be? One banging dance tune. Well, it depends what mood you're in. I mean, if I'm looking for a disco classic, then I always go for Thelma Houston's version of Don't Leave Me This Way

because it starts off all slow and slinky and then it gets really glorious and bells and whistles. But if you're looking for just something just to really like drop the beat and kick off. I mean, golly, there's so many. I'm thinking something like Basement Jacks. Where's your head at? Just go for it.

Can I just tell you, this is the epitome of middle age, Sophie. Last weekend, King's Coronation Party. Got a bit out of hand. Did my hip in, dancing to insomnia in my own kitchen that's how old I am now I've got a dodgy hip because I was giving it too many beans in my own kitchen last weekend hey it's better than just sleeping on it funny well exactly very very true true I've got to ask Sophie are your kids be honest are your kids absolutely so impressed and think you're the coolest mom ever for being a disco queen or do they get a bit embarrassed I think actually it's the truth is the thing that amuses me the most which is an absolute

sort of neutral gear about the whole thing. I kind of love that. They just are so, I think like most of them are just quite bemused by it. Like, okay. I mean, to be honest, having them be embarrassed by me would be more of a compliment. They're sort of less interested than that. That's amazing. Really.

But long may it remain so. I mean, you don't want your kids to be fans of yours, do you? That would just be weird. That would be odd, yeah. Well, thank you, Sophie, for coming to chat to us at Netmums and spending some of your afternoon telling us about yourself. It's been a pleasure. Oh, very lovely.

I could continue. It's nice to have a sit down and a pleasure. Oh, very lovely. I could continue. It's nice to have a sit down and a chat. I've enjoyed it. Cup of tea, bit of chat. Thank you for joining us. Cheers.