The Netmums Podcast - S12 Ep5: Blending Families: Navigating Midlife with Kids Andrea McLean & Nick Feeney

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

This week on the Netmums Podcast Alison & Wendy are seeking wisdom from husband and wife team Andrea McLean and Nick Feeney. The dynamic duo who have recently launched their own podcast, ‘Mastering Midlife’, share their blended family's approach to navigating the complexities of teenage tech temptations and the importance of setting boundaries without becoming the enemy. Andrea, a familiar face from GMTV and Loose Women, and Nick, a life coach, talk candidly about the realities of midlife, from the menopause maze to the pivotal changes that come with it, and offer heartfelt advice on how to support your partner through the midlife transition.

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... If you get cross with someone because they can't read your mind, you need to have a long, hard look at yourself. And that's so often, that's what we do, is we go, well, he would know if he loved me. No, he wouldn't. Oh, she would know if she... No, nobody is a mind reader. And thank God. I wouldn't want you to know what goes on in my head but before all of that this episode of the netmoms podcast is brought to you by fairy non-bio the number one laundry brand for sensitive skin they've partnered with great ormond street

hospital children's charity to support seriously ill children and their families. With every Fairy Non-Bio pack bought from Home Bargains, Fairy Non-Bio will donate 5p to GOSH Charity with a minimum donation of £100,000. I know where I'm going after this. Now, on with the show. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode. Now this week in my household we have entered a bit of a new area with my 13 year old daughter. After about three years of her nagging me to let her have TikTok and Instagram and me saying no and me very resolutely saying no, I have succumbed and I have relented and I've said yes I have Wendy I've given in I've now got the fear because I'm now thinking oh my goodness am I a terrible parent am I now

basically opening up the gateway to all of these horrible things on the internet and social media that basically the reason I've done it is because I really feel like I'm I don't want to be that parent who like says no says no says no and the more you say no to something the more your teenager just wants to go off and do it and they'll find a way and do it behind your back and so I don't know Wendy what do you think am I doing the right thing oh you're giving me the fear We've not quite hit teen and I'm already like... Yeah. I think I agree with you.

All of the things my parents said you can't do, I went and did. So, but let's ask our guests because they, between them, have a gamut of teenagers and older than teenagers. So they'll have had this conversation. Our two guests today are Andrea McLean and Nick Feeney. Andrea, of course, has been on our TV screens for years from GMTV and Loose Women to Dancing on Ice. More recently, she's written books, blogs, recorded podcasts about helping women in midlife, and her husband, Nick, is a life coach. Together, they've recently launched a new podcast called Mastering Midlife which sees

them speaking to experts about navigating midlife and I think we all need help in navigating midlife. We do. Andrea, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, thanks for having us. So before I ask you our official first question, what was your party line on tiktok and instagram with the kids and how old are your kids tell our listeners how old they are just so if they don't know we we're a blended family uh met and married in midlife with two each so um when we got together the kids were was it 10 5 or 10 mine were 10 and 8 and mine were nearly 11 and 7 I think so now they're early 20s late teens so the youngest is now 17 and I'm pretty sure the oldest was a boy and he wasn't that interested in TikTok and all that sort of thing

I remember TikTok started as Musical.ly so when Musical.ly came out I remember Amy and Sienna they're the two youngest they're 17 and 18 now we didn't really see much harm in it because they were they were just literally doing funny little dances and they were getting us involved and it seemed to be children doing dances and then I don't know when it tipped over and musically became TikTok. But by then they were in, they were embedded, tested. And so the thought of taking them out, it wouldn't have really worked. But I think because they were already in there, it wasn't that much of a big deal. But the gate that we opened wasn't the

same gate that you're facing is is different i think also as well it's um you would have done a lot of groundwork already on you know parameters what's expected of them and things like that and i'm sure they will have a level of understanding of right and wrong you know so that will help them you'd hope well you know hopefully by now we've done that bit and uh and i think that will really help them and what we get now is um i'm constantly certainly from the eldest one being sent air fryer recipes from tiktok and we've actually tried some cooking recipes ourselves on TikTok. So, I mean, there is a wealth of stuff out there. Amy does. So Amy's 17 and her relaxing thing to do is bake.

And the results are varied. But her, she doesn't mind actually because it could be a lot worse. And she gets all her recipes off TikTok. So it's fine. Yeah. It's okay. This is a whole new world and where do you stand where do you guys stand on the whole um being strict versus giving them a little bit of

leeway so that they don't rebel too much and go totally off the rails um we've we've met in the middle with this haven't we i was very much, I was very strict. Very strict. No means no. I mean, no still means no, but it's like, but everyone else is. Everyone else jumps off a cliff. Do you want to jump off a cliff? That sort of thing.

I hear that so often. Honestly, it drives me mad. All my friends get to do it. I don't care. And I think the thing was I genuinely didn't care because I'm a bit odd like that I don't even now I don't care what other people are doing and think oh I need to be doing that so it was I found it easier but um yeah we did we had the conversation about boundaries and parameters and then also trust so this is a trust exercise for us and And we are, we're opening this, this door for you to step in. But if we get any kind of inkling that either you're, you're seeing things that we don't think you're emotionally mature enough to handle, or that it's leading to behaviors that are, they're not, they're not you, if you know what I mean.

We'll sit and have a chat about it. And also, we pay for your phone. So at the end of the day, the buck literally cuts the buck. So that was the kind of hard line. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I mean, pretty much so. The trust is a super important thing. And what we try and build is an environment where they can tell us anything even if it's not great yeah you know because i'd rather they didn't hide things

from us um so we created an environment where we go look guys you know we've we've i mean they've all had life coaches as well because like they've had their own challenges. And as parents, you know yourself, you can tell them to their blue in the face. Then someone else says it and it's like, oh, my God, I heard this thing. And you're like, I told you that. I've been telling you that for years. I've been saying that for years. We were just aware that certain things, you know, because of what we do for a living.

And we were just aware of just how they were and how each one came to it at different times. But there's just these core values that we have as a family, and we stick with them, their core values as parents. And they still try, like any other family, play dad off against mom and things like that you know and uh but ultimately when we say no it's no we're both very rigid on that we're not their friends we want to get on with them but ultimately we're parents anyone can be their friend but we get the honor to be their parent and that's something that we cherish i'm going to pick on the no is no thing so no absolutely means no and i remember when they were little and my take on it was we we shared this ask me again go on i dare you ask me again the more you the worst this is going to be for you so it is in your interest to back off

do not keep asking and it was like not just in a very i'm quite calm sort of parent so it was like not just in a very i'm quite a calm sort of parent so it was said like there was a scottish undertone there was a very scottish undertone ask me i know that well ask me again with as they've got older what what we what we realize as well is that it's not a weakness to go away, do your own bit of, whether it's reevaluating or research or speak to other parents or what have you, and even have a deeper conversation ourselves and realize, actually, our gut reaction was no, but there is, there is wiggle room on this, so we will go back to them and say, do you know what, we've, we've changed our minds slightly on this, not because you haven't badgered us into this we've gone away and we've had a

think about it so we've we're altering it slightly so as you say in the first episode of your podcast between you you've had five marriages four children three divorces and two dogs which is going some i'm impressed so what have you learned along the way? Do you know, I think one, I've learned to stop being ashamed and embarrassed of the fact that I've been married three times. Obviously, my third marriage is to Nick. You've been married twice. your second marriage is to me. To not be ashamed of it. There used to be a lot of shame surrounding that because I felt like I'd failed in some sort of way and shown a sort of recklessness, which really doesn't sum up my personality at all. What I've come to see is actually I was really fortunate that I've had three instances in my life where I have, I have met someone and we've loved each other.

And we've, we've tried to make something wonderful happen and it didn't work. So rather than, I don't know, you know, I mean, I meet a lot of people who, especially, you know, my parents of generation when we we got married you stick at it and in my day it meant for life yeah you know and then you kind of dig a little bit deeper and you find out they've been really miserable for 40 of those years and you just think no i reframe that you you've got one life and if you genuinely feel that you can you can do this in a way that you know are we okay are the kids okay do you know what I'm we're gonna go and try and find happiness elsewhere that is that's that's also teaching the kids that actually if something is broken and you've tried your best to fix it you don't have to stick with it to your own if something is to your own

detriment and in my cases my marriages were they were to my detriment they were they were not right so I think it that's what I've learned really that I'm not ashamed of them I used to be but I'm I'm not anymore and I'm the first to take the mickey out myself with it but not in the same way I used to I used to jump in first and take the mickey out myself to sort of show people like, all right, I've heard all the gags before. Yeah, no one can say I've heard it all before. Yeah, yeah. What about you? What do you say you've learned? My learnings were just, so my first relationship was 23 years. And so, and I was thinking it was happy ever after and everything. And it was a big step for me to do it.

But it was the right step for me to do it. Albeit, I went through a whirlwind of depression afterwards. And, you know, it was my entire adult life gone and that loss of identity and the grief that follows it and you know even if it is your decision to do um so I did a lot of work on myself and I had to reach out to some um a therapist as well and a coach because I was entering into a world that I didn't want to get my facts from my mates who had never been through you know and all the ones that had been through it it hadn't been pleasant so they were not going to give me great advice so I went to someone that could genuinely help me

without any sort of connection to to my previous life or my future life. And I just took responsibility for who I was and who I wasn't. I knew that I'd mucked up on many occasions. So it was like, okay, how can I be better? How can I do better? And, you know, when you look at the stats of first marriages, it's 51% ending or 50% ending in divorce. Second marriages are 72%, I believe. And the reason being is people take the same personality and traits into that second marriage, blaming the other partner for what was actually 50% their responsibility. So I just knew that it was such a big upheaval for that to finish and I never wanted

it to happen again but it was a bit that I could control which was working on me. So Nick you're a life coach aren't you but Andrea what's it like living with a life coach like do you live with the most incredible mindset setting goals all the time and smashing them every day? Or is it not quite like that in reality? No, he is like that in reality. And sometimes it's exhausting. He's like the Duracell bunny. He leaps out of bed.

Woohoo! Not so much now, he's got a bad back at the moment, so he's kind of creaking out of bed. But yeah, he is. He absolutely is exactly as he seems in terms of, you know, he's very driven. He wants to be the best that he can be. He wants to pay it forward. He gets very excitable about things.

Learns a new thing. It's like living with elf all year round. I was going to liken him to a golden retriever. It sounds a little bit like living with a golden retriever as well. Kind of like, I did something new. Yeah. I'm going to take both of them. Hopefully you smell better than a golden retriever, Nick,

because mine stinks. Andrew Day. hopefully you smell better than a golden retriever nick because mine stinks and what's good as well as we've been together long we've we met 10 years ago so we've technically been together nine years we met 10 years ago um and so we're in a place now where you've stopped trying to make me like you and i've stopped trying to just calm you the hell down and we just sort of meet in the middle and now i you're you're all right with me being chilled i don't move as much as you i'm really happy just watching jelly whereas you're like let's go down a mountain or whatever you know you go for your life um and we're good and sort of meet in the in the middle with it so yeah it's all fine that sounds really healthy it is funny because we've had a couple of moments where andrew will say i'm feeling this i'm feeling that and i'll ask you some questions

she's like stop stop coaching me I just need a husband right now. I did wonder that, whether, Andrew, whether you would find yourself being, like, stealthily coached by Nick at times. He doesn't understand stealth. He's, like, full on in your face. So I can remember one time I was washing up, wasn't I? Put my leotard on and everything.

Yeah. I'm a coach. I remember, do you remember that time i was we're in the kitchen i was washing up oh i was just moaning i'm just having a moan i didn't actually want any solutions i just wanted to just like get it off my chest and you're like well have you considered and have you looked at and perhaps and i was like I think that's a man. I don't even think that's a Nick being a coach thing. I think that's a man and woman thing because often women just want to go, and another thing, and then this, and then this.

And they're like, what's the solution? I'm like, I don't want a bloody solution. Just listen to me alone. And I think it is just boys and girls. Sorry. It's so true. It's so true. It's so true. But we say it now, don't we?

Well, now I say, do you want me to listen or do you want me to help? And it's like, I just want to listen. And it's like, cool. That's good. You know what's so nice is actually just by saying that, I feel like, okay, that's cool. And I actually listen more intently because rather than going, oh, here's a solution. Here's a solution. I just listen

i go wow and literally go i can completely understand how that must annoy you you know and that's it done that's such a good idea um now your new podcast is called mastering midlife and andrea you've been talking about midlife for years. I myself post on Instagram as the midlife mum. So I know how important it is to have these conversations. But I'm really curious, what does the term midlife mean to each of you? Because I really feel like in the last few years, it's had a bit of an overhaul from going from being associated with midlife crisis to now it's almost been reclaimed hasn't it yeah and I think that's such a great question because you know when I when I wrote my my my second book my second book was about the menopause and I wrote it uh back in it came out back in 2018 and uh so obviously it was dealing with a midlife problem and it was because I'd I'd had to have a hysterectomy in my mid-40s so I went into

surgical menopause. I was told not to write the book, I was told no one would want to be associated with me or I could lose work because of it because it was you know it was seen as old to talk about these kind of things. That's five years ago wow yeah and it's interesting so I I did it anyway and I wrote the book out and it it has gone on to help thousands and thousands of women and it it sort of spurred me on to start the website and build this girls on fire just in terms of just helping women at this midpoint in their in their So to me, midlife means you're halfway through, not halfway done. You've got to a point where you have all this life experience and all this learning. And yes, you've made mistakes.

And yet, you know, this whole idea that you're born and then you just succeed on an incredibly level, not level, steady upward trajectory until you die having done amazing things your whole life. And life is not like that. Life is like a bowl of spaghetti. It's really messy. And sometimes you go down and up and backwards. And to me, by the time you get to midlife, you've realized I have all these learnings. I now know what I don't want and I know what I do want. And actually, if I can spare anyone some of the mess, then it's actually a really fair thing to do to pass it on. You know, when we came up with the podcast idea, a lot of it came from this idea of what's it like to live together as a couple

when you both work in this space where, you know, you're constantly learning and evolving and growing and teaching yourself going on courses and this kind of thing oh my god what's it like must be a nightmare because we must be just mastering midlife all the time and actually it was a total play on words because we are crashing through midlife we don't have all the answers at all and and anyone who says they do by the time they're halfway through well they're making it up nobody has all the answers by the by the time they're halfway through well they're making it up nobody has all the answers by the by the time they're halfway through because you only know

half the stuff so for me midlife is a point when you're halfway through not halfway done and then if you can look at it with a twinkle in the eye and but a bit of knowledge behind you and also a big heart and pay it forward that's all we're trying to do but nick i a question for you here it feels to me that midlife and all of the conversations that are brilliantly happening about midlife seem to be really female centric how do you think midlife affects men and is it something we should be talking about more because there's not the obvious menopause for men midlife tends to center around the menopause and it's i'm just interested what how you think it affects men well statistically if you if you look into it it's

actually really terrible reading um the the biggest killer of men in their 40s is themselves. They reach the unhappiest time of their life. They did this study called the unhappy curve. And at the lowest point is at 47 years and three months. So yeah, it's not great reading. And I think you've hit the nail on the head when you were talking about having the menopause. You know, women throughout their entire lives have nature reminding them of where they are, you know, and they're constantly having to talk about it. They're constantly having to deal with these things, either in their social circles or with their clinicians, you know. And so there's a lot of awareness of what's going on, whereas men, there isn't anything.

And even when it comes to two of the biggest things that men in midlife struggle with is hair loss and lack of testosterone, there really isn't a huge conversation about that. You know, you do not get blokes going into groups and going, hey, you know, how's your testosterone levels? It just wouldn't be a conversation that they would even consider having because there is no you know everything that we do happens because like there's almost like these little breadcrumbs that lead you to like the

menopause you know start of your cycle the end of your but the vernacular for men is still very much midlife crisis whereas the vernacular you said earlier Alison about midlife being reclaimed but I'm not sure it has been reclaimed in the male space it has in the female space. And I think the thing is we're getting better I'm certainly seeing a lot more awareness in in the men because i specifically coach men in midlife um but the thing is um it has to be an actual awareness because there isn't like a natural thing that gets them and the trouble with midlife crisis is because they keep doing the thing that has got them to where they've got to expecting a different result and have taken all these body blows through life whether it's broken relationships frayed relationships poor health because you know at the expense of getting the

next thing the next big house the next car and chasing all these things they haven't checked in with themselves but more importantly they've actually been doing something that they thought 20 years ago was what they wanted to do. And now they don't even know who they are when they're doing it. And it's at the expense of their relationships at the expense of their health. And I speak, you know, a lot through experience, because that's exactly what I did. I had my own midlife crisis at 40, when my life imploded. And I was one of those guys that was just chasing everything next, next, next, pushing through and not checking in with myself and not asking myself some better questions. It's hard to imagine how stressful it is for families when their child is seriously ill.

But Fairy Non-Bio has partnered with G charity to provide some comfort that's right wendy one of the areas that gosh charity funds is free accommodation for families located close to the hospital while their child is receiving treatment being able to stay close to their child and not worry about the cost helps ease the stress during what can be an extremely difficult time between now and the 31st of March 2024, for every pack of Fairy non-biodetergent, Fairy fabric softener or Fairy in-wash scent boosters that you buy in home bargains, Fairy will make a 5p donation to GOSH charity. Which means that you can show your support as you shop. Now back to our guest. Andrea, you've just mentioned that you had a hysterectomy in your mid-40s due to endometriosis. So I wanted to ask you about what your menopause was like. I've heard stories that

kind of chemical menopauses are very different to real menopause. Is that true? What were your experiences? So I was already entering the perimenopause when I had my hysterectomy. So I started early. I was in my late 30s. And I ended up, I had a baby at 38, which can happen when there's like a hormonal surge, just as you're sort of ending your fertile years, your body goes, come on, one more time. Fair play to you. The idea of a baby at 38. Oh my God.

Wendy, I had two babies when I was 39. Yeah, I know. And fair play. I didn't want to have fertility treatment to have Finley. So I didn't expect to get pregnant naturally at all at 38. So it was a huge surprise. But you know, I'm so glad I have lovely Amy. So I didn't expect to get pregnant naturally at all at 38. So it was a huge surprise. But you know, I'm so glad I have lovely Amy. So it's amazing. So for me, once I'd had her, obviously, there's a lot of hormonal changes happen anyway, postnatally. And it took

a while to realize, yes, it's a mixture of obviously, a postnatal hormone, hormonal change. I had postnatal depression after having Amy as well so there was a lot of things kind of tied up at that time but when I was 42 was when I realized actually what I was experiencing was a perimenopause and I was told that by a by a GP because I went to get my coil changed like you do and she went oh actually you seem to be um have you experienced this this and this and this and this and i was like yes i have it's while she while she was having a little rummage um changing my coil changes um you know what i'm saying and uh she was amazing and she was the one that actually uh really helped me understand that at that age, this is a totally normal thing

to be starting down the sort of menopausal road. Then by the time I was 46, I was told really the best solution for me in terms of my endometriosis, which I'd had for a lifetime, was a full hysterectomy. Full hysterectomy means everything's gone. ovaries cervix womb the whole thing and you go into full menopause overnight so the main difference between a surgical menopause and a natural menopause is clearly the speed and the intensity um yeah so uh but i was really lucky i went back to see this initial doctor who who was Dr. Tina Pears. And I said to her, I've had a full hysterectomy literally a couple of weeks ago. And she went, right, you need to be on everything. So she was brilliant.

What's interesting was I didn't have that conversation with my surgeon. He just said, oh, well, you're already on a little bit of HRT so that should be fine and knowing what I know now it absolutely would not have cut it at all um so I was just really lucky I was very very lucky that um the years before my GP couldn't remove my coil and removed and sent me to another GP who was better at it and she happened to be a menopause expert it was luck more than anything else it seems like that that's that's the same story for so many women it's so hit and miss it depends on the GP you talk to what training they may or may not have had because as we know menopause training isn't mandatory for GPs you know so much of it just seems to be luck doesn't it which is kind of

terrifying can you imagine if foot training wasn't mandatory for GPs and you went into your doctor and you sprained your ankle go I didn't I didn't do feet I mean how ridiculous is that it's a it's it's a part of our anatomy imagine I'm gonna opt out and opt out of elbows well I really don't like feet so I would have opted out of feet. But nevertheless, you're right. You can't just say I don't do feet. Good job. You're not a doctor, Wendy. There's many reasons why it's a good job I'm not a doctor. Now, Andrea, you said something that rang so true with me.

So I'm 44 and I've been perimenopausal for I think three years and you've said that dealing with the menopause is a full-time job and it's a bit like gardening so you said you get all planted and all the bulbs come up and you get everything all looking lovely and you think all right I'm done now but it's not like that you have to keep watering it and you have to keep feeding it with all the different minerals and vitamins and everything that your garden needs. And I feel like, oh my goodness, this is exactly how I feel. Like you always have to be keeping an eye on symptoms

and adjusting things, don't you? Yeah, and I think that, you know, bringing Nick into this conversation, I think I'm really lucky in that we have a really good relationship and I'm able to explain that to him, that it's not a case of, right, just take this thing and then you're done. Wouldn't it be nice if it was, though? Wouldn't it be so nice? And I think a lot of men think, yeah, but you've done that now.

Stick a punch on your bum and you're done. Off you go. Exactly. But actually, no, it can ebb and flow. And sometimes things that work, they don't seem to work anymore. And anxiety levels go through the roof or there's brain fog or there's fatigue and all the things. And I think what's so great is that obviously we met later in life. We had the discussion, obviously, about me having a hysterectomy.

We then have, we're very open about everything. So we'll talk about how, you know, you seem a little bit off. I know I'm not quite feeling myself. I think it could be this. Whereas I think a lot of relationships, the woman doesn't understand this whole analogy of it is like a garden. It's not like DIY where you put a cushion and change the sofa and it stays that way. It's like a garden where weeds appear and you need to keep, you know, tending to it. And I think it would be so

much more helpful if men and women were able to have that conversation together so men at least understood what women were going through you know the big one of the one of the biggest and best responses that I had to my book all those years ago was men coming up to me in the street saying and I thought it would be you're that woman off the telly and it wasn't remember that time in the car park um this man came up to me he went you're that woman and I thought what would follow was off the telly and he said you're that woman who wrote that book and he burst into tears and he just said I recognize your face because your your book is on my wife's bedside table you've given me my wife back and it was we both and he gave me a big hug and he said there were parts of it where she said to me I

can't articulate how I'm feeling right now read this um and oh that's just giving me goosebumps oh I know I'm me to me that's like and do you know, if I go tomorrow, I've done one useful thing. So, and I think that's what it comes down to. If we don't understand what we're going through, how can we expect men to understand what we're going through? So the very least we can do is just try and have an open and honest conversation about it all. So I was going to ask you, Nick, what men can do to support their partners, but maybe it's just buy them Andrea's book the funny thing is so I play golf a lot and I do little days where I may be in a group that I won't necessarily know the people that I'm playing with you know and then we get into conversation and they might say oh my god my wife's driving me mad at the moment she's this she's that and I'm

going okay and I ask a few questions. And by the end of the round, they've bought Andrea's book. And I said, look, mate, if you want your wife to be your wife in your future, then I suggest you learn to be a better husband and understand what she's going through. Because I'll tell you what, it's hell. And if you were going through it, you'd be having weeks off. So I said, let's understand what she's going through and then ask her how you can help her. Always coaching, Nick, even on the golf course.

And there are other books available. You don't have them. No, no, just yours, Andrea. Well, I don't recommend them. Okay, all right. But there are lots of books. In case anyone thinks, my God, she's going on plugging this book.

No, not at all. You were supposed to be plugging the podcast hang on a minute you know what it all comes down to having those conversations because like it is if if i'm going through something as a man in a relationship and i'm not telling my wife, my partner. And likewise, you know, that's when the gaps, the disconnect starts happening. And that's when issues start coming. And because we've both been through that, that is one thing we are absolutely all over, that we are always connecting.

And if there is a disconnect, then it's like, are you okay? Is everything okay? You know, and then we have those honest conversations because we genuinely want to be together in each other's future as husband and wife, you know, but grow together. And the only way that you can do that is stay connected and communicate. I think that's such an important point. If you get cross with someone because they can't read your mind you need to have a long hard look at yourself and and that's so often that's what we do is we are well he would know if he loved me no he wouldn't oh she would know if she know that nobody is a mind reader and thank god i wouldn't want you to know what goes on in my head.

And of course, of course, midlife isn't just about the menopause. It's a part of it, but it's not the whole thing. What are the other things, what are the other areas that you think it's good for us to focus on when we hit this period in our lives? Do you know, and I'm so glad you said that, because it's one of the reasons why Do you know, and I'm so glad you said that because it's one of the reasons why, you know, I've, I've, I've, so I've written four books in my life and, um, only one of them has been about menopause. And for me, it's just one part of my life. I don't want to be, oh, that's that menopause lady in, and I don't just mean that because I'm well known. I wouldn't want it if I worked in a shop.

Why would I want to be known as that? We're 360 degree full rounded beings. Why would you want to be known as one thing? So for me, it's always been about, you know, the work that I've done while I was in telly and then since, you know, leaving loose and the other bits of telly that I've done.

It's everything we do starts with how we think about it so how can we just change our attitudes towards things or our perception of things and so for for me especially in midlife like i say you've got to this point you're a big bowl of spaghetti you've got a bit of a mess but you've learned some you've learned some stuff um how then can I put this to really good use? So it's taking the time to think, well, what do I actually want to do? You know, at this point, your kids are getting older. Yes, there are still challenges. You know, maybe they're entering the TikTok world or there's a social media thing or there's online bullying or there's school issues. There's still these things. But you're also moving towards a point of interesting maybe you're thinking changing career all of these things are relevant to to midlife

because you come you you've reached this point where you have knowledge you have experience and also you have the guts to go i don't want to do this anymore and I want to change and that's okay whether it's your career or your parenting style or your hairstyle or whatever that's what that's what I think there's so much more to it you mentioned actually of the whole blended family thing earlier what do you guys think is the secret to getting through that as smoothly and unspaghetti-like as possible? I don't think there is a secret, to be honest. Other than talking to each other, are we on the same page in terms of wanting the greater good?

Yeah. I mean, you've got to come to an agreement with how you're going to parent, for starters, because it's very common that two households coming together have very different viewpoints or maybe even like bedtimes how much fizzy pop you can drink you know all those sorts of things so it's just really understanding what what is the sort of minimum standard that you're going to expect in that house. And also definitely to agree not to undermine one another on those things. I think that applies blended or not, Nick.

You'll be surprised how many, when they go into it, they're trying to win the other child over and things like that and you start losing sight of what your primary role is inside that new family because you're trying to find yourself as well in in that place and I think then you have to consider the other people like the children and their ages and what they're coming to this new blended family with, because they might, you know, still feel that you splitting from their mum, or their dad, was actually a terrible thing to do. And you're with this new partner, and that's actually no, I want you to go back with them. So again, it's just making sure that you're having conversations constantly and setting the scene.

But one thing that we did is because when we had a couple of challenges within our own unit and we reached out to an amazing blended family coach and her name's Jane Dockrell. She's actually on our first podcast and helping us to mark the Christmas, you know, but she is, was, still is amazing. Because again, she can give you such clear advice on what to do, because she's seen it before. And we haven't. So when you're going into these new sort of dynamics, like when you enter parenting, you can read as many books as you like, you're trying to find your way, aren't you? And that's what you're doing. So we can either spend some time doing it, but potentially making lots of mistakes, or reach out to someone like Jane, who just gave us some amazing advice and she then went on to work with a couple of the girls to help them process their side of what was going on um and uh and help their perspective so no that's what i would definitely recommend and i think if i can add to that it would be that really

overused and very useful phrase which is this too shall pass and it is if things are going really great at the moment and you're kind of mentally high-fiving each other going we are like Disney parents we are smashing this at some point it is all going to come crashing down but then also at that moment where everything's hitting the fan is reminding this this will pass because we've been through all of those we've been through you know all the scenarios and the the tendency is to think oh my god this is how my life is going to be now the rest of my life it's going to be like this and just as it was when your kids were not sleeping all night and you know you were toilet training all of those kind of things where you think i'm never going to have a normal life again actually you do and it and it passes so it's to remind yourself of that

don't get too complacent when you think oh yeah crushing this and then also you know it'll pass just enjoy the process that's so true yeah um like we mentioned at the start wendy and i are um just entering into the kind of tween and teen phase of parenting and that's a really big part of midlife as you've already mentioned um now we wendy and i do tend to whenever we get guests on who've got teenagers or older we tend to use it as a way of getting tips for ourselves. So hit us with your best parenting teenager's tip. Go. Oh, my gosh. Firstly, remember, they're all different.

So what worked for one won't work for the other. Just like menopause, you think you've got your garden planted and then the next one comes along and that one needs a wee kiln of water. Yeah, that one was like like oil and full sun and this one yeah it's exactly the same it's exactly the same number two let's just i would just go back to um what i said earlier you know you want to get on with your children but you're not their mate and like you just need to make better decisions and and also some of them aren't always popular right but you're their parent and you're the only parent that they've got to be a great one some of my even being a great one it's panic inducing you think i'm a great parent you know what i mean by that is yeah no pressure you try and do

oh yeah everything with the best intention yeah you know exactly um that's it I don't want to put more pressure on mums because I'm well aware that there's plenty of pressure but just try your best and that's it I remember having a conversation with Finn Finn's the oldest and you know he's he's the only boy and he's the oldest and you know we were butting heads about boy and he's the oldest and you know we were butting heads about something and I sat down with him and I said have I ever been a parent to a teenage boy of this age before he went no I said so how am I supposed to know exactly what I'm doing I I've never parented a young man of this age before. I'm doing the very best I can.

And I'm trying to be the right, you know, give you the right boundaries and parenting and all this sort of stuff. But there will be times when you will absolutely disagree with me. And there'll be times that I get it wrong. But all I know is that I can go to bed every night and know I've done the best I can with the best intentions.

And that's it. That's all I can give you. That's all I can give you. That's all I can give you. I think that bit where you said as well, you know, is when you do get it wrong, be honest with them, especially as teenagers, because you're trying to encourage them to own up. You know, go, actually, I could have done that better.

Actually, I did get that wrong. We have to lead by example with that. And like the bit that you said earlier when it was a no and then on reflection we go actually I didn't mean that let's let's look at this you can do the same I was coaching so there's this couple I coach and um and she's been saying for a while she's got twins two boys 12 and it's like no means no and I said but what happens if you're wrong on reflection because sometimes we're thrown into something at a moment to make that decision and then we react as humans

as we do with uh you know whether that's our ego or like overbearing critical parent and then we go back and go oh maybe I was a bit tough there maybe I was a bit over the top by going back and saying that when everything's calmed down give them grace and go oh my god a you you it is all right to make a mistake but also done in such a right way I can be open to my parents and show them actually I said I was going to do that but I didn't't. And I'm sorry. And you've created a wonderful environment where they feel safe in doing that. Finally, if someone listening is in their 30s and dreading midlife because of all of these conversations that are happening now about it, what would you say to them? Do you know, I feel for women in their 20s and 30s because there is so much out there at the moment about midlife, which sounds like you're going to be entering this terrifying time in your life where all the

wheels fall off the bus and it's terrible. And what I would say is, do you know what? It's all all right. It's all okay. All it is, is a different stage in your life, exactly the same as all the other stages that you've been through, whether it whether it was you know childhood into puberty into into pre-teen teen 20s 30s it's literally just another stage and it will all be okay yeah and i think from a man's point of view as well is like because we we don't have to deal with as many thoughts and pressures going through our head in there. But just look after yourself better because most men think they're bulletproof and I get it. And in our 20s, you pretty much feel like you are,

even in your 30s. But your body keeps a score and start putting yourself first more. I like that. I like that a lot. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. It's been so great. We've covered spaghetti, we've covered gardening and we've covered so much more in between. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for joining us, guys. It was lovely to meet you. Thank you for having us. We've really enjoyed it.

Thank you very, very much.