The Netmums Podcast - S12 Ep7: Georgia Kousoulou on Mum Life: Loss, Love, and Learning to Say No

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

*Content warning* This episode covers personal experience of baby loss and mental health issues, and the importance of seeking support. If you or someone you know is struggling with maternal mental health in the UK, support is available: online platforms like Netmums' forum provide a safe space for parents to connect, share experiences, and seek advice from eachother.  "I felt like - to say it out loud - how I was feeling, was really bad. I was like, ‘Oh my God, does that make me a bad mum? Does that make me not maternal’?" In this episode of the Netmums Podcast, hosts Wendy Golledge and Alison Perry are joined by Georgia Kousoulou, known for her role on ITV's Georgia and Tommy: Baby Steps, and daily podcast Five Minutes Peace. In this chatty episode, Georgia shares her insights on motherhood, mental health, and her journey towards self-discovery. Georgia bravely opens up about the heartache of losing her baby due to a chromosomal issue, the struggles of identity and the pressures of parenthood, and the challenges she faced when bonding with her son Brody after a c-section didn’t come naturally straight away. Georgia's new book, I Wish I Knew, serves as a guide for navigating motherhood and self-discovery, offering readers honest and relatable advice based on all the things Georgia wished she’d known sooner. Wendy and Alison bring you a sneak peek of some of these, like accepting her body and ditching fad diets, and learning to say ‘no’ more. I Wish I Knew; honest and real lessons on love, life and family as you grow’ is available to buy now. Follow Georgia on social media: Instagram: @georgiakousoulou Twitter: @MissGeorgiakx Listen to Georgia’s daily podcast Five Minutes Peace Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums 

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show. Now I'm a mum, I love saying no. I love it. I think it's so empowering. And I have to protect my mental health and also my family's. So now it's like this power.

And sometimes I can't stop saying no, though. It's a bit bad. I've gone the other way. But I have learned that it's healthy. It's healthy boundaries. You know, you need to set them. And yeah, it's a great thing I've learned. I'm really happy about it. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode. Now, has anyone else seen that meme? The one on Instagram about spring? It's popped up on my feed loads this week with people saying you have winter, then fall spring, then second winter, then the spring of deception.

I don't know about you, but I haven't even got to fall spring yet, let alone spring of deception. I am so done with rain, wet dogs, kids with coughs, kids with colds. I know I'm ranting. I'm sorry. Alison, do you feel the same? I feel the same. In fact, there was a moment yesterday, I was on the school run. It was torrential rain. I had like a hood up. My kids had hoods up and were complaining. And I just remembered like when you're told by people, cherish every moment of parenting like they're going to grow up before you know it and I was like I honestly don't feel like I could

cherish this moment I'm so over this. Let's ask our guest today if she feels the same you can do the showbiz intro Alison. Yeah so our guest today is Georgia Kasulu she is an influencer a television personality best loved for being on the award-winning reality show The Only Way Is Essex. Along with her husband Tommy and son Brodie, Georgia is now the star of ITV series Georgia and Tommy Baby Steps. Her book I Wish I Knew sees Georgia share everything she wished she knew before starting out on her motherhood journey. Georgia, welcome to the Netmoms podcast. Thank you for having me guys. I'm glad to be here. Now I have an official starting question, but first of all, are you feeling fed up of the rain

as much as we are? Oh, I'm over it. I'm so over it. At the moment, my hair, can you see? It's like slicked back because I just can't be bothered to do anything with it. But yeah, Brodie's over it too. I do Brodie's hair every single morning. Nice little side part in. And then we go outside. He's like, mum, it's raining. I need my hood. Hair's messed up.

You know, it's just like, I'm just going with it. I'm just literally going with it. Now, you got married in December you had a registry office wedding but you've got a big bash planned for this summer in Spain is that right next summer next summer yes how's life treating you so far I mean I keep forgetting I'm married like people keep coming up to me and saying congratulations and I keep going for what like I know it's really bad but I'm like well what happened I missed something um it's really bad but life as a married couple it feels different it actually does feel it just I just

feel like I don't know I I may be closer is that a thing um I'm really enjoying it actually but I am really excited for the wedding next year I feel like it will be just so good um but yeah life's treating us good so far and I'm excited for this year I've got high hopes for it what's the plan then for the wedding next year in Spain is it going to be like a really big extravagant bash 100% it's going I'm going big I the wedding here was the warm-up and I actually loved it like I really loved the intimacy of it but I deserve a big dress and I want my big day and I'm having it um so yeah I'm going for it although I haven't actually done much because you feel like you've got a lot of time and it was supposed to be end of the year this year but I moved it back so in my head I'm like I've got so much time but actually I don't really time's going quick so I'm gonna start planning it this summer now the past year

hasn't all been great has it you sadly lost your baby after finding out it had a chromosomal issue last year that must have just been awful for you and Tommy. Can you tell us about it, please? Oh, honestly, I'd say last year was probably the worst year of our lives. Just because you go into, you just can't get out of it. Losing a baby is one thing, but then it's the aftermath of like the trauma and the grief and the triggers. It's like every day there's a trigger, you know, there's babies everywhere.

It was a really, really hard time for us. Yeah, it was just honestly like awful. That's how I'd describe it. Traumatizing. Didn't you initially say that you'd had a miscarriage as well? Were you worried about being judged even though, you know though the medical diagnosis for the baby wasn't good? Did you worry what people would think about you? No, I didn't care what anyone thought. I shared that I had to have the operation,

and I felt like I owed. It's really weird. I feel like where I've grown up on TV and I've grown up, you know, all my twenties have been in front of people and I've been honest and open my whole life. I feel like I owed it for the public to tell them what happened, which is very weird actually, but I owed it to them. I felt like I did. And do you know what, when I put it out there, what had happened to me, it did make me feel better because I don't know about you, but with me, when I've got something going on in my life and I'm not being my full honest self I can't I don't

know how to do like can't be and I was like not really like there on Instagram and I was like I just wasn't myself so I felt like once I did it I had like a bit of power back because I couldn't control anything else around me and I could control my post and I put it out there and then you know as soon as I did that I got an influx of messages of women and it then made me slightly feel better because I started to feel like I was the only one going through it you know so is that why you've also spoken out on the tv show about wanting a brother or sister for Brodie because that must put you under a bit of pressure with everyone who watches the show knowing you're trying to

get pregnant but is it that authenticity again you don't want to do it privately because it's not authentically you yeah and that's the problem with me I'm too honest and I really struggle if I'm not and I just can't be anything else and when we lost the baby when we was going through before we knew we was losing the baby, we actually started filming my show. And that was series four. And I announced on my show that I was pregnant, like to my family and friends, obviously before I knew if it was going wrong. So then the problem with that was obviously it was great because everyone knew and I had the support, but they followed me every single week. I was going back to see if there was something wrong with the baby.

So where I was in it and I was filming I feel like everyone was I saw my journey anyway so I feel like I had to carry on um and I just feel like people always want to know you're gonna have another baby you're gonna have another baby that's the most questions I get all the time so I feel like once I put it out there people kind of know my struggles and they know it's not as easy I'm not finding it as easy this time around so hopefully people have laid off of me a bit. I feel like I'm so honest, you know. Do you struggle then when there are times when you want to keep things to yourself? Like say, for example, you do get pregnant again and you might not want to tell people until a certain point. Do you find that's hard for you? hard I can't I'm just so used to just being like

I like blurt things out and I I get I work better when I talk and I talk a lot um and yeah as I've noticed with the book I'm just so honest and sometimes I'm like oh my god when I read things back I'm like ah or watch my show I'm like oh my god but I just that's just my God. When I read things back, I'm like, ah, or watch my show, I'm like, oh my God. But I just, that's just how I work. And I struggle like hiding things. I'm really bad at lying. Like I can't lie as well. Like I'm really bad. So yeah, I definitely struggle,

but I will be more sensible. Like I think when God blesses me with another baby and it happens, I feel like it's gonna, I will just be more mindful of how I do it. And not so much because in case anything happens, more for, you know, other people that have gone through loss because I'm now dealing with, you know, the triggers. It's not people's fault, but I will be more mindful now.

So you've said that, you know, life is a month's chaotic. What do you think was the biggest change to your life after Brodie was born? Oh my God, like, I remember walking in because I had a planned C-section because Brodie was born? Oh my God. Like I remember walking in because I had a planned C-section because Brodie was breached and I walked in as Georgia and I come out as a mom and I got handed a human and they were like, here you go. And I remember thinking, yeah, I remember being like, okay, now what? Like, I've never changed a nappy. I've never like gave up. I've never dealt with a baby at all.

And I remember being like, ah, the reality is here. Like, what do I do? And I really struggled like mentally as well and physically. I was just like, what do I do? And I really had a lot of self-doubt. And I think that was like one of the hardest bits, you know. Well, you spoke about losing your identity. And I can totally relate to that. You suddenly become, as you said, you know? Well, you spoke about losing your identity and I can totally relate to that.

You suddenly become, as you said, you were Georgia walking in and then you were Brodie's mum walking out. And that's a really big change. Three years on or nearly three years on, do you feel like it's coming back? Is Georgia back? Yeah, I feel like Georgia comes back

and then she goes again. She pops in the room, says a little chat and goes you know I don't know if I'll ever be me like my brain I feel like my brain's never gone back to normal that that has not gone back to normal um and like tv wise like I mean it's very quiet in my house now because Brody's at nursery but I guess them three days I'm warm Georgia when he at nursery. But when he's here, he takes over the house. It's kids' TV on all day. It's, you know, so you lose, and he's like, what does Brody want to eat? So you then become a mum again, and it's, you know, our little person consumes our whole life.

I mean, I wouldn't have it any other way, but, yeah, it is funny, isn't it? You're like mum for a little bit, mum for a lot of the time, and then Georgia pops in. It's funny, though, isn't it? Because I do wonder whether we shouldn't try to get back to our pre mum selves like it does feel like so many of us and i'm the same like i just want to get back to the way i was and that's probably not going to happen and also maybe maybe it doesn't need to yeah maybe it's not supposed to i don't know well we're 12 and 13 years in I don't think it's if it's not happened by now love it's not happening I think you need to give up I'm definitely not able to go back this person's

too tired for that person it's so true like I had so much energy and what did I do with all my time like I sometimes I laugh I'm like I used to think I had honestly there'd be days I've got so much to do what did I even do what did I do yeah what and when people who don't have kids say I'm so tired and you look at them and you think no no it's daggers isn't it I just look I'm like I can't even deal with you right now also you've spoken about how um um when you got pregnant with Brodie, it was a surprise. Yeah. When you look back, because were you 28 when you got pregnant with him? I had him when I was 29, but then I was 30 the month later.

Right, okay. But you were late 20s. Looking back, is there anything that you wish you'd done, like pre-Mum Georgia? Is there anything you wish you had done before having him, if you'd been able to? Do you know pre-mum georgia is there anything you wish you had done before having him like if you've been able to um do you know what i'm actually so blessed where i was on taui um we did a lot like i joined that show really young and we just used to go on holiday all the time with our friends basically so i had such a my 20s were amazing like we did so much I got to see like

a lot of the world and I just had a lot of fun so by the time I got pregnant I actually felt that I didn't miss out on anything because I'd kind of done it um so yeah that was lucky actually well it was in the press wasn't it last week that the average age to have a first baby is now 31. Oh, yeah. Which is 10 years after our parents' generation. Wow. So that's 10 more years that we're doing stuff as Georgia or as Wendy. How old were you, Wendy, when you had your first? I was. I was 31.

God, I don't know. You ask a question, I'll do the maths. We haven't got Carol vorderman on again um anyway georgia um your book wish i knew it's so good because there are so many times i think when hindsight would come in handy um so many times it would be good to look back and go back and tell our past selves something um what inspired you to write the book oh my god like that book has been therapy to me it has come at the best time um but basically we had we had talks about a book a couple years ago and i was like no i've got nothing to say like bear in mind i talk a lot

i just like it wasn't right and then i started feeling like wait a second this doesn't got to be about anything it could just be about me and what I've learned over the years you know and all through my life I've kept saying I wish I knew this I wish I knew that and I kept finding myself saying it and at the initial meeting I kept saying it so much that everyone looked at me and was like that's the title of the book I wish I knew and I was like oh yes yes and I basically we wrote this book and I was like I wrote in it because I was like I wish I had this book growing up um being on TOWIE and parents spitting up you know surgeries friendships relationships there is so many times and it's all through the book where I've needed that book and

I'm like oh my god genius I'm gonna write the book I'm gonna write everything that everyone else is thinking and then hopefully it can help other people so I'm really excited about it so I'm gonna first of all I was 31 just I've done the maths I was 31 good thank you we were I was 32 10 days after she was born which was a shock um which meant that when i had my second i was lovingly called a geriatric mother oh that'd be me now yeah when you're over 35 i think you're geriatric okay not yet which is just lovely isn't it it makes you feel great it's ridiculous it's we've got lives to live before we have babies nowadays, you know. So let's take some of the things you wish you'd known. First up, you wish you'd known it's important to say no.

Tell us about that. So the importance of saying no. I was really struggling with that when I was younger, especially like my early career days, like TOWIE days and stuff. There was no boundaries in place at all. And I wouldn't say I was a people pleaser, probably a little bit, because you know, you're starting a new career, you want to fit in, you want to please people, you want a job, you want to work, don't you? Whereas now I'm a mum, I love saying no,

I love it. I think it's so empowering and I have to protect my mental health and also my family's. So now it's like this power and sometimes I can't stop saying no, though it's a bit bad. I've gone the other way, but I have learned that it's healthy. It's healthy boundaries. You need to set them and yeah, it's a great thing I've learned. I'm really happy about it. It's not just no to Bodhi. I'm really happy about it. It's not just no to Brody, I'm assuming. This is no to the whole world. This is no to the whole world.

Yeah, Brody does, I do tell him no a lot, although sometimes he laughs in my face. But yeah, this is to the whole world. This is, yeah, especially with work and stuff now. It's so important to protect that, isn't it? That family time you have. Let's take another one. You wish you'd known that fad diets don't work. Oh, God.

Yeah. When I joined TOWIE, I was 21, 22, you know. And also back then, like, I'm not saying back then, but it was like over 10 years ago, the society that we lived in was very different to now. I remember the magazine saying, rate the best body, who's got the best body out of the Tower Girls,

you know? So I was in a world of that and I was young. That's all I cared about was my body. I used to go gym twice a day. Twice a day? Twice a day, like absolutely. I mean, I try to go gym now and I'm like, I struggle once a week.

But yeah, twice a day. and i was obsessed absolutely obsessed anyone would offer me a diet i'd do it i tried everything i generally i really feel like all of them you know them yo-yo diets messed up my metabolism like i really believe it like completely ruined my body um nowadays i feel like we're more accepting of who we are I've you know I've grown a child like now I'm so relaxed but back then I was so hard on myself like you know and they never made me happy and you know you're slim for a little bit with them diets but then you know the weight comes back it's not realistic the calories I was eating was so low um I actually blacked out in the gym once. But, yeah, it was actually ridiculous.

But, yeah, looking back, they definitely didn't work. So what was the turning point where you – because a lot of us know fad diets don't work, but that doesn't mean we can stop ourselves doing them. So how did you flick that switch? I think I flicked the switch where, because my schedule was very like, I would train for an away trip or, you know, the next set of filming. And then as soon as I finished, I would relax. But then my body would like, I would eat so much then

because I was like, you know, malnourished basically, you know, like I'd eat so much. And then it'd be like a yo-yo again then I'd lose weight and it was like so up and down and then when I got pregnant pregnancy changed my whole view on everything like that was a switch for me I was never happy like when I look back I was so slim I was never happy never happy so although yeah the scale said I was a you know certain way it never helped me never cured my mental health it never it made my anxiety probably worse and then when I got pregnant I was eating what I wanted I was so confident in myself I wore the tightest outfits to show my bump off

and my mental health was never been better and I was like oh my god like I've got it wrong all this time and I think that was definitely the moment it changed Brody he was the one how do you think you'll talk to Brody as he gets older and you know maybe he's kind of like in the sort of tween and teen years how do you think you'll talk to him about body image and about health I would just definitely come with like a healthy approach um you know we I'm lucky we are lucky now that people would never write things in magazines about your weight no more, really, would they? And you don't get compared and people are more, you know, they're happy. A lot of us more like I've got a lot of self-love now.

So I'm going to definitely install that in at a young age. Self-love is so important because it affects everything, you know, and then it affects your confidence. And I think it can spiral into a really bad place so yeah we're definitely gonna you know keep that like teach him that young so one of the other things you said is that you wish you'd known you'd struggle to connect with your child which is an interesting thing to have said it's a really brave thing to have said I think tell us why you felt you struggled and how you overcame it I was so emotional um I don't know if it was linked to having a c-section actually because I feel like my body hadn't I felt like

my body didn't keep up I had the baby it was really weird but you know when you go through labor you know and you're pushing out a baby your body gets you like ready doesn't it and it like does i feel like you release them hormones i don't know if there's a scientific fact but i seriously do believe it that when you have a c-section you're you literally go in pregnant and then they take the baby out and your body's a bit like, oh, now what? I feel exactly the same. I have the same. Women who have cesareans, their milk takes longer to come in. Really? Because you don't get the oxytocin release that tells your body,

oh, right, this is happening. Okay. And it's just like one minute you're pregnant and literally the next minute you're not. Yes, in a second. And the baby baby there's all sorts of things with the baby as well that they don't get the same signals as well so I totally agree with you and obviously you can't choose some people you have to have a cesarean but I think it does it can affect that bonding period after they're born oh I generally I was I think I

went into shock like my whole body went into shock I was just a bit like I was lost I was, I think I went into shock. Like my whole body went into shock. I was just a bit like, I was lost. I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Especially because I didn't really know what to do with a baby. I was like so naive. And then I just remember crying a lot. I was in, I got in a bit of a dark place and I realized that something was wrong because everyone around me was very happy. And I was a bit like, why am I not as happy as everyone else?

And it really took me back because then I started thinking something was wrong with me because I'd heard no one else talk about it. And I felt like I was, you know, there was something seriously wrong. I thought, am I not maternal? Am I not supposed to be a mom? I had dark, really dark thoughts. And I got into like a really deep place. Um, and then it was only one day that Tommy, um, had noticed. And I didn't know he noticed. Cause I never told anyone. I used to go up to the toilet with the dog and cry like

myself. Cause I was, I was really ashamed because I was a bit like, why am I feeling like this? Like I've just, you know, I've got this beautiful, unbelievable baby. Like this is really bad. And I really took it bad. And I'd go off and cry in secret. And one day I'll never forget. I was in the kitchen and I had Tommy, my mom, Bev, Tom's mom, and my midwife, Pat, who's unbelievable. And he literally out of nowhere, come out of it and said, George is not okay. She's really struggling. And I burst out into tears. And at the time I was like, how dare you? But it was the best thing that happened to me because it was like the relief. Like it was like, honestly, a weight had been

lifted. I was like free. I didn't have to pretend anymore. Like I was like hiding this feeling. And once I started talking and I mean, I didn't stop then, can you imagine? Then I realized pretty early it was so normal. And that is, that is probably one of the main reasons I wrote this book as well, because of that reason. Because I would hate for anyone to feel that, how I felt. All I needed was someone to say that they'd felt that way, and I wouldn't have took it so bad, you know?

Yeah. I do love the fact you used to take the dog with you for a cry, though. And, you know, it's really funny. I used to look at monkeys named Monkey, and I'd cry and be like, I'm so sorry. I've had a baby. I used to feel guilty on the dog honestly like the hormones are wild it is really good though that you have been so honest about your mental health struggles and the panic attacks that you've had um yeah and it's interesting because you you say how honest

you are and how easy you find it to be honest but then you still struggle even you a person who is happy to be open about things you struggle which i guess really shows you how this stuff messes with our heads doesn't it yeah because i feel like in society you know the babies are the best thing that happens and of course they are like babies are blessings but when you're hormonal and you know you've had no sleep and you've got all these hormones and I was injecting myself every day you know from the c-section it's a lot it's just a lot and you know you can start them them feelings and thoughts can really turn into something really bad and I think I felt like to say it out loud, how I was feeling was really

bad. I was like, Oh my God, does that make me a bad mom? Does that make me not maternal? And, you know, so the more, you know, I'm glad I wrote it down now. Cause the more people that talk about it, we know that it's just the hormones and it's just phase, you know, it's not us. We're not a bad mom. It's very normal. So yeah, a lot of people struggle. They just don't talk about it. Have you had much feedback from people who've read the book and who have read your social media posts and have been helped by hearing about your experience? Oh my God, already, like I've had so many messages.

And do you know what's so funny is after I was out of it, like out of that phase, I remember saying it to my friends and all my friends said to me, yeah, we had that. And I remember thinking, Oh my God, why is no one? We all like looked at each other and was like, none, none of us were there for each other because no one spoke about it. And it's such a shame, isn't it? Because we feel like we can't. So I feel like this is definitely going to help a lot, a lot of women. So going back to the book, Georgia,

you talk about who you turn to for advice. And I remember when I first had my daughter, the phrase, everyone needs a village to bring up a child couldn't have been truer. And I didn't have a village, but who's your village? Oh my God, I've got such a big village. I am so lucky. You know, my mum, Brodie's the first grandchild on both sides. So I'm very lucky. A lot of attention. But no, I've got a really supportive mum, dad.

I've got Tom's family, like Tom's mum and me, we're so close. I've got my sister, my brother. I've got good friends. Yeah, I'm very, very lucky in that aspect. Thank God for them, honestly. That's so good to hear. So I want to ask you one more question, and I'd like to know what is next, Georgia?

What are you up to next? What is next? I mean, I just really, really, I know it sounds like cliche, but after the last year I really really am praying that this year we are healthy and happy I just really really want a happy and healthy year like I genuinely want and everything else that will come will be you know be extras because I just need that I just need some happiness don't we all don't we all that sounds perfect georgia thank

you so much for joining us today it's been so fabulous to talk to you oh thank you for having me i've had such a nice time just nice little chat isn't it thanks for joining us