The Netmums Podcast - S13 Ep4: Liz Earle on thriving in midlife: Empowering women to prioritise health & self care

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Wendy Golledge and Alison Perry sit down with the remarkable Liz Earle, a true beacon in the wellness industry with over three decades of experience. Liz, a (now Sunday Times) best-selling author, TV presenter, and podcast host, dives deep into the transformative journey of midlife, discussing her latest triumph, 'A Better Second Half'.  Liz's message is clear: embrace pro-aging, find your purpose, and seize the joy in every moment. Liz's candid conversation sheds light on the often overlooked and marginalised world of women's health in midlife, offering a treasure trove of evidence-based techniques and wisdom to thrive, not just survive. From debunking myths to embracing the ageing process, Liz advocates for self-care as a non-negotiable priority and shares her personal anecdotes, including the surprise of her 'autumn leaf' baby at 47. She also touches on the profound impact of honest conversations about our health and the importance of smashing taboos, particularly around ageing and menopause. Liz's refreshing perspective is a call to action for women to reclaim their health and vitality, armed with simple yet life-altering daily habits and routines. Listen for practical tips for a better start and end to your day, and make your second half of life your best yet. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums 

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... When you have to get over perfectionism, that's for sure. I mean, my mantra is if it's mostly good most of the time, that's great. Oh, I love it. If there's no blood and nothing's broken, fantastic. Wendy, how are you doing today? I've been obsessively buying second-hand clothes for my children on Vinted this week. Have you got into Vinted yet? I just find it so good for bargains.

I have. I'm a little bit addicted. I'm currently selling a heap of clothes of Gracie's that are too small. And what I really like is that when you sell stuff, basically then you can can buy i sell her clothes and buy me clothes for free because my balance goes up but what i don't love is that i think i don't know i think the buyers of vintage have got a sixth sense because i always get loads of buys just when i'm really busy and i can't go to the post office so it has its problems it does it does but it's so good and also we're helping the planet right it? It's all about stopping this, all the clothes going to landfill. And so we can just, we can feel virtuous while we're shopping. Exactly. someone who is a pioneer of the wellness industry and has been for more than 30 years. Liz Earle is a champion of women's health. She's a media influencer, author of 36 books. She's a TV

presenter, a charity founder, and also the host of the very popular Liz Earle Wellbeing Show podcast. Her new book, A Better Second Half, is about future-proofing our health in midlife using evidence-based techniques, ideas, and wisdom accumulated over her years of experience in the wellbeing arena. I feel better already just hearing what we're going to talk about. I know it's going to improve my life. So Liz, a huge welcome to the Netmoms podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a real honor to be here.

I'm so looking forward to this. I think I might just say, right, talk and tell me how to feel better in the next hour for now. Is that okay? Go, over to you, Liz. Do you know, there's so much that we can do. And I just feel that women, in particular midlife women,

have become so marginalized in terms of health care and wellness and well-being. It's really easy to lose ourselves in all the noise and all the chaos of looking after kids and families and work and just so much other stuff that crowds in. And, you know, we may be caring for elderly parents and other members of the family. And it's a really tough time. And I think women in particular are sometimes victims of thinking, you know, where are we in all of this?

Where is our self-care? Self-care is not selfish. It's actually a priority. And I think we need to take more little steps to focus on ourselves and our well-being so that we can then better help others. It's a win-win for everybody. I saw the author, Marion Keys, was on Radio 4 yesterday talking about feeling invisible in midlife. And it was this brilliant interview. She was talking about how if she's walking down the street and there's a bunch of lads, she's basically invisible to them because she's a middle-aged woman. So she just sharpens her

elbows and barges through the middle of these boys. I've heard her say that before. It is brilliant. She's who I want to be when I grow up. Anyway, you're a big fan of honest conversation around how we feel. Why is it so important that we have these honest conversations? I think we need to just smash a few taboos. I feel that aging is kind of almost like the last taboo. And especially for women, we're just not allowed to do it, are we? You know, the messages all around us are anti-aging and I mean I'm no longer connected to the beauty company but when I was and when Kim and I founded it we never even you know 30 years ago never used the term anti-aging because aging is a gift it's a privilege we all want to age you know I'm very

pro-aging not anti-aging but it's about aging well. And I feel about it in the same way, actually, that I felt when I wrote my book on menopause, which is over eight years ago now. And that was also smashing a taboo because at the time I was really nervous about associating my name with the word menopause because menopause just seemed to be so negative. And it was associated with somebody who was past it, frankly, and a bit decrepit and unreliable. And I didn't relate to that at all. And I thought sometimes you've just got to feel the fear and do it anyway. And so I wrote a book, it's called The Good Menopause Guide. It was just like,

and even my publishers at the time were saying, we're not sure that we want to put menopause on the cover because a woman's not going to want to walk into a bookshop and pick up a book about menopause anyway it went to number one on the day it was published so that was like kind of smashed that taboo and now thanks to people like Davina and Dr Louise Newsome it's it's a it's a currency word like periods or pregnancy that you know know, in the old days, you wouldn't have vocalized. But now there's hopefully no shame or fear in that. But I turned 60 last year. And for me, that was kind of the last taboo because my publishing team said, okay, Liz, this is great. We're going to talk about aging. We're going to put you on the front

cover of the magazine, 60 years old or 60 years young you know loud and proud and I have to tell you my instant reaction was no way no freaking way because I don't identify with that I was going back out into the dating world it was not something that I wanted that I felt really comfortable with. But again, I kind of thought about it. I thought, you know, this is mad. It is a gift to get to this stage in life and feel better and hopefully look better and feel happier than ever before. So let's do it. And I got so many amazing messages, you know, on my Instagram, particularly from women saying, thank you so much for talking about this and for raising the fact that we can thrive in later life. It's not decline and downhill. It's actually, you know, being better

than ever. I'm fitter, slimmer, stronger, happier than I've ever been in my life at 60, better than I was at 50, better than I was at 40. So I want that trajectory to continue. And you know, when I come back, hopefully in 10 years time, when I'm 70, be even better than I am now. I've just scribbled down, I'm pro-aging, not anti-aging. I feel like that needs to be everyone's life mantra. But Liz, can you think of a time when an honest conversation about how you were feeling made a big impact on you it's really hard actually because I'm you know I'm older than you guys and you know growing up there were not those conversations we didn't have the role models we didn't have podcasts you know we didn't have social media and I actually I write in my book about relationships

particularly even though I've been twice divorced so I'm definitely not a relationship expert. I can tell you how not to do it. That's for sure. You know, all these expressions like, you know, self-care, coercive control, narcissism, gaslighting, you know, these are words that are new. These are new in female vocabulary, certainly for my age and my generation. And so we didn't have these discussions. And it's only now when I look back in hindsight and think, wow, I was really struggling in my early 40s. And I didn't realize it. And I thought it was just the pressure of having five kids, running a business, having a marriage that was falling apart, you know, all those things were conspiring against me and perimenopause, thank you very much, declining hormones and all that kind of shift that goes on. And, you know, weight gain, metabolism changes, society saying that, you know, we've all got to have glass skin and look about 15.

You know, all of those pressures made life tricky. And actually, I found myself getting into quite a dark place. And then it was only coming through that and pulling myself out that you can then look back in hindsight and well, gosh, you know, I'd fallen quite a long way. But thank goodness, you know, I'm back out into the light again. And that's my motivation for what I do. It's to share this. I see so many women who are struggling and it should not be this way. There's a massive injustice, I think, that goes on within midlife women. And we need to change that. You just casually dropped into conversation there that you've got five kids. I've got two and I struggle to keep my sanity a lot of the time.

You must have a fair bit of parenting wisdom to share with our listeners, Liz. Is there kind of like a parenting mantra that you've developed by the time you get five kids past the line of adulthood? Yeah, I mean, you have to get over perfectionism. That's for sure. I mean, my mantra is if it's mostly good most of the time, that's great. If there's no blood, nothing's broken. Fantastic. No blood, nothing broken. Brilliant. you know yes I have five children but that's over a 20 year span you know if I was having five children under the age of eight I definitely would not be here right now doing this so I had my first two children they are now 33 and 31 and then a 10 year gap and then my next two who are 23 and 21 so by then I had older children who were able to help and wanted to get involved and, you know, help with feeding and, you know, when they were older, babysitting and all of that.

So that, you know, that was a real advantage. It never really felt like I had five small ones under the same roof. And then I went and had my younger son who, you know, my mother describes as my autumn leaf because I thought he was the menopause. Well, tell us about that. my autumn leaf because I thought he was the menopause and it turned out no but you can't get pregnant when you're 47 so don't believe them when they say you're too late but tell us more about that because didn't you you thought you're experiencing menopause symptoms and weren't you quite far on in the pregnancy when you realized that it was a pregnancy yeah well I mean to be you know to be fair Kim and I were selling the beauty company

at the time we were living on transatlantic plains too much black coffee way too stressed and so when my periods became very erratic and stopped I just thought oh it's just you know it's menopause there you go and I'm stressed I'm busy you know and that's why I feel a bit strange and so you would have thought having done it four times previously that I would have noticed the signs. And anyway, so I did a pregnancy test and I thought, well, that's weird. Maybe it's hormone fluctuation, you know, so I did another one. And that sure enough also was positive. So I told my husband, who was like wildly overexcited. And I said, listen, I have not been living a great life these last couple of months.

You know, I haven't been taking my fish oils, my folic acid, my rest, you know, all of this, all this stuff. And I'm considered a very elderly, if not geriatric mother. So we went for a scan. And sure enough, you know, there was this amazing, you know, baby like kind of waving. Hi. And I was immediately kind of thrown into a slight panic thinking I have not done all the self-care that I should have done. I did with the others and was so, you know, told the indoctrinated that this is absolutely crucial. And but what I learned from that is that your body, it just goes on autopilot. Your body, and I now know, you know, skeletally that the baby will suck out most of my calcium, it'll take all the nutrients it needs from me and leave me a bit deficient, but it doesn't matter because the baby's growing and that's the priority. And actually, out of all of them, you know, he has been possibly one of the fittest, strongest. Just goes to show. Health issue. It just goes to show, please don't believe every Daily Mail headline.

I mean, I know that's another rule for life. That's right there. Yeah. Certainly in terms of scaring women. Yes, of course. Do the very best you can, obviously. But I think, you know, there is a certain point where you have to accept that, you know, we are ruled by our biology. And there are some good news stories that come out. And, you know, we should be taking a balanced view. And obviously, since then, you know, I've taken

a lot, lot more care of myself and my children's health, which, you know, I write about a lot, which is great. But it was just very strange at the time not to actually have clocked the fact that I was indeed pregnant and you've just become a grandmother as well I know that that's very strange and well anybody who's followed Lily's journey my eldest will know that she's had many many years of acute chronic pain and many autoimmune issues being quite vocal about it she's had five miscarriages and you know has endured excruciating pain I mean do anybody who suffers from chronic pain fibromyalgia all of that please listen to the podcast I recorded with her because it's it's very inspiring how she managed to live her life through the last seven

years and anyway I think largely through the work that I've done we've explored a lot of different protocols and therapies together so she uh she has now had this amazingly healthy bonnie little boy she's pain-free and it's there was a real sense of overwhelm actually at that moment because I don't think she had allowed herself to believe that it was going to happen I certainly as a mother was just waiting for the moment when there would be a crashing disappointment and I was going to have to go in again and pick her up and console and try and find ways to make things better and actually it was a joyful joyful moment and he's super happy and calm and bonnie and she's super well and an amazing mum and just living the

life that literally a year ago she would never have dreamed possible so it's it's extraordinary that's amazing and obviously you're only a few weeks in but what kind of grandmother do you think you'll be because you quite often find that your grandparent in a very different way to the way that you parent. So what's your prediction? I hope I will always be there and be around. I mean, I'm immensely proud of her. And I think, you know, when she comes around with the baby, I'm very much focused on her and not the baby baby's great and the baby's doing super well and she's a great mom and has a lot of attention but you know I know from my own

experience that she is the one particularly at the moment with surging hormones she's you know breastfeeding around the clock you know she's sleep deprived super happy and chilled but at the same time obviously there will be raging emotions. And I remember, I'm sure she won't mind me sharing this with you. But after a couple of weeks, I went, she called me and we live near each other. And she said, you know, can you pop up for a cup of tea? I said, absolutely. Dropped everything, went up. She was standing in the garden with her beautiful baby and the sun was shining. And immediately burst into tears and my first reaction was oh my gosh I said it you know are you in pain no no is everything okay with with Harry your husband yes he's great is everything all right with the baby yes it's great

um are you are you is it okay with your friends is it yes it's a house okay yes it's all fine she was just so overwhelmed she just had to let go and I just hugged her and she said you know she was sobbing saying it's all great it's all great but I just oh I just have to cry but you know you you need people don't you that you can unload to who will understand and literally just be there to hug you especially in those first few weeks where it is just a roller coaster and you I remember sitting there thinking there's no reason you don't understand why you're crying half of the time you just it's you just need to cry for no reason and and it's a good lesson too because when we get those surging hormones again in midlife, that also happens.

You know, that is what is happening to women during their 40s, 50s and beyond. And unless you get help with your hormones, you know, that that can be the norm, which is, you know, which is not not good. And you can worry. You can think that, you know, you're falling apart. You can think that you've got some kind of dementia that's coming on or that you're super stressed and can't cope at work or whatever and it's important to remember particularly as women that we are so regulated and controlled largely by our hormones so you mentioned before we started recording that you had some exciting news i was going to ask about your new book being called midlife but I might first of all ask about your exciting news please well my exciting news here is that I have literally just come off the phone to my publisher uh about this about a second half

and it's gone straight in instantly some Sunday Times number one bestseller wow congratulations I have never had before you know I've been Amazon number one whatever and that's and you know in all my books it's you know I've charted but the number one is like the pinnacle that's incredible we'd hoped you know we knew that the response was good but I'm sharing it with you publicly for the very first time that Well, that's very exciting. So tell us a little bit about it. I've kind of, I think basically I just need to eat the book, imbibe all of the information and make this my new life. Give us a little bit of a...

Well, do you know, I really hope you do. And, you know, I wrote it for me and for my community, you know, in their 40s, 50s, 60s. My daughters have read it. And, you know, Brella, who's 23 and Lily, who's 33. And they've both said, oh, my gosh, all my friends need to read this book because you have made all the mistakes and written about it. So we don't have to. You're fast tracking. I need to follow this now so that my first half can be as fabulous as my second half, which I thought was a very interesting view for younger women.

So, you know, as I said, I feel fitter, stronger, happier at 60 than I did at 50 than I did at 40. You know, my arms are more toned. I feel mentally more resilient. I have more joy. My skin is, you know, sorted out the issues. I mean, yeah, I've got some wrinkles and stuff, but, you know, I don't have the rosacea and the eczema and the inflammation that I had when I was younger. And I want to share that information. It's about, you know, for women, not just surviving through life, but thriving and reclaiming who we are through simple things. So for example, first thing in the day, the first 15 minutes, and I know we're all crazy busy and you're going to say to me, I haven't got time for me, you know, but remember self-care is not selfish. It's really important. Put your mask on the plane before anybody else. And the reason they say that is because you've got about half a second before you lose all oxygen. So it's really important that you clamp that on your face

first before doing your kids. And the same is true of looking after yourself. If you are strong and resilient and happy and joyful, you will pass that message down to your children and your family and be better able to give them a better life. So prioritize yourself. I know the day is busy. 15 minutes, set your alarm, get up 15 minutes earlier and make that your time okay nobody else that is your time the phone by the bed do not switch it on okay you buy an alarm clock do not use your phone as the alarm okay and i'll tell you why biochemically it's all about your circadian rhythm and setting yourself up in the right way not only the fact that when you turn your phone on you instantly get sucked into the WhatsApps, the emails,

the whatever, whatever things you forgot to do. That can wait 15 minutes, but you need, your brain needs low level UV light and near infrared from daylight to set up your circadian rhythm, which is your sleep-wake cycle and to get better hormone balance so the first thing you do is you look outside if you can get outside stand on your front doorstep

even better if you can go into the garden if not open a window literally i stand in my bathroom and i open the window so that's the first light and you need to do it not through glass because glass or contact lenses or sunglasses or you know know, spectacles will block that light. So you need to get into your room. I've got vision to be hanging out the window first thing in the morning. You don't need to get out there. You need to just let the light in and let light bounces around. So, but light bounces into the room, wherever you're in a room,

even sitting in the car, crack open the window, get, get the real light coming in. This is all about quantum biology, which we're going to be hearing more and more of in the future and it's really important so do that first thing before your phone goes on then if you can buy a tongue scraper give your tongue a scrape that is not what i expected you to say so you know how sometimes if you you might stick your tongue out in the mirror and you see that little layer of white fuzz that is all the debris and rubbish that your body is sloughing off we

have lots of methods of detoxification you know through wee through perspiration all of that and our tongue is another method through breath and if we've had a heavy night the night before it will show on your tongue because your body will be getting rid of the waste matter basically and what a tongue scraper does it's an ancient ayurvedic tool it's a little copper scraper you can buy them i think they're like 199 online or in a health health food shop just once scrape it over the tongue rinse it off and you've removed that layer of bad bugs, bad bacteria, fuzz, that you don't want to be re-ingesting. Your body's actually worked quite hard to get

rid of it. So let's just rinse it off down the sink. Then I swish out my mouth with a bit of water. Then really importantly, the first mouthful of your day needs to be electrolyte water. So we know we need to rehydrate with water. Water actually in itself is not that hydrating. And if you drink too much water, you can disrupt your natural mineral balance. So what I have in my bath is I have a little salt grinder of Himalayan pink salt, which has trace minerals in it. And obviously it's high in sodium. A few grinds of that into a large tumbler of water, that back instant energy i've also rehydrated from the night before which is when we lose a lot of moisture through perspiration or

if we're lucky maybe a heavy night of fashion so you know so we're losing moisture you need to rehydrate and if you do that with electrolytes you can buy electrolyte powders and liquids and all of that which are great and they give you a really good balance of potassium magnesium sodium which again give you that energizing hit and you can drink that throughout the day actually it's really helpful if you're feeling a bit brain foggy and tired but even just that little pinch of sea salt or rock salt in your water knock it back and then you know if you know, if you can, I don't know, brush your teeth, standing on one leg or whatever, just to try and get a bit of balance going, which again,

is really good for your neural pathways. You know, it's finding these little hacks that take no time. We have no time. We have no time. If you add in all these little things, you can't tell me that you have not got time in the morning to open your window one tongue scrape and a glass of electrolyte water we all have time to do that so just make it your habit and people say oh i won't remember it's would do you remember to brush your teeth would you leave the house without brushing your teeth yeah just put the salt by your toothbrush boom and 30 days to build a habit and then once it's a habit it's just there it's instinctive your body just instantly reaches for

it and you forget about having but it's something you have to remember because you just do it it sounds so easy but i think that i can feel quite overwhelmed by like the different tips advice that we you know like just do this just do this one thing and by the time you've listened to like 30 just one things you need to do in i get it in your day i get it also you know like you need to improve your gut health you need to ditch sugar you need to take collagen you need to take hrt don't take hrt you know all of those different messages how can we possibly make sure you do yeah yeah yeah i agree with that but yeah but this is why but this is why I put it all together this is this is like this is a a blueprint you know this is a manual this is like I have been writing about health and wellness for women for 35 years and I have distilled everything

yes I've written 35 other books actually leave those leave those to one side. This is the one. This is the one. There's a reason why I think went to number one instantly on the day of publication, because midlife women, particularly women of all ages, are desperate for this information. There's too much noise. There's too much noise coming from vested interests, people trying to sell us stuff. You know, where do you read you need to go out and look out of the window no one's going to tell you that because they can't make any money out of it the window manufacturers well yeah but hey come on i mean we've all got a window hopefully in our homes so you know you don't need to go out and buy a new window in order to do this and you know standing barefoot on the grass okay sounds woo woo-woo and weird.

No one's going to tell you to do it. You know, the pharmaceutical companies aren't going to do randomised controlled trials on how it can control inflammation and wound healing because nobody's interested in that. But actually, when you look at the studies, it shows the negative ions coming from the earth. We can connect with that that and we're very disconnected from nature you know we all go around we're wearing shoes we're wearing trainers all got plastic soles it's a synthetic barrier between us and the earth so in the morning again if you can

or any time of day if you're in the park i go into the park i take my shoes and socks off and i'll just sit in the grass or i'll just stand for a few minutes looking at the early morning light and again we're told you know fear sunlight cover up wear sunscreen all the rest of it yes don't damage your skin don't go out and fry yourself you know between the hours of like 10 and 4 when the uv is really strong but we need low level light and I think we're going to be hearing more and more about this through functional medicine and quantum biology in the future, because it genuinely is the way ahead. And it's the way that we can naturally make ourselves feel better. So what's the kind of biggest myth that we're obviously going to have middle age spread, that we're obviously going to have relationship issues, that our sleep is obviously going to become disrupted, that we obviously are less strong, can't lift weights, don't do as much, you know. And that's just all a lie.

That is, I think that's a lie to keep women down, actually. And, you know, there's a huge patriarchy in the medical system, which is skewed against women. I was really shocked when I was researching the book to realize that most modern medicines have not been clinically tested on white, middle-aged men. Now, when you look at a painkiller, say take paracetamol, women's pain pathways are different. You know, genetically, we are different. We have XX chromosomes. Men have XY chromosomes. You know, our hormone composition is different. The pain pathways are different. Our fat distribution is different.

The role of estrogen in terms of our immune system is different. So will paracetamol work in a woman the same way it does in a biological man? I don't know. They don't know. They never tested it. So and that's the same, you know, you look at statins, for example, test tested on men. Is that going to work? Our hearts function in a very slightly different way. Our symptoms of heart disease and heart attacks are different from men so you know when you realize that actually so much in health care is skewed against women and then you i'm sure you've looked at this before the difficulties in getting things like endometriosis diagnosed and and treated there is this legacy of women being deemed in somehow unimportant and oh it's just a women's issue i I mean, can you imagine saying to a guy who presents with, you know, acutely sore scrotum, so sore that he can't sit down, you know, which is what happens with women and vaginal dryness. The doctor wouldn't say, yeah, it's just a man's issue. You know, you're just going to have to man up and deal with it.

Go home and have a cup of tea. You'll get over it soon. It just would not happen. So why have we allowed it to happen? And we need to reclaim our health. We need to reclaim our vitality, our energy, and so that we can then be better functioning members of society and live a more joyful life. It's about our quality of life and how we can also then, you know, represent and lift others around us in our community. Yeah. So you've talked about your wake up routine, which we're all on board with now. We're all going to from tomorrow. That's it. And you've got a chapter in the book about resting and recharging. So what's your wind down routine at the end of the day?

Because I'll be honest, mine is scrolling on social media until I feel tired yeah yeah a bottle of chardonnay on the sofa you know a box of you know whatever family-sized pack of pringles and a box set great you know and then you flop into bed because that's that's just you just that's what you need to do right obviously wrong I used to think that it was sorry smashing dream I think she was quite aware that the dream was about to be smashed. I'm under no illusions. So I think the first thing to do is to understand that rest and sleep is not a passive process. It's not just about switching off. The body and the brain are actually very active during sleep.

And we need to prioritize that because the sleep time is when we do our rest and repair. So in terms of brain, we're rewiring neuroplasticity. We are doing all the brain's filing system. It's making memories. It's short-term memories of the day. It's stacking them all away. It's processing problems. It's problem solving. It's clearing out all the toxic debris, physical debris that gets accumulated in brain cells. And we need to have good quality sleep in order to be able to do that. That means we wake up feeling brighter, fresher, better able to cope, less anxious. Then on a physical level, we need good sleep because that's when the gut rests. And we all have heard so much about gut health.

It's when we produce more of the beneficial bacteria like Accomansia that control weight loss. So it's very good for weight regulation. It's when we renew our immune cells. So it makes us stronger, better able to fight off all the germs that the kids bring home and all of that. So sleep is a priority. So having a sleep routine, just in the same way that we have a morning routine. So mine starts around nine o'clock in the evening, try and come off screens, doesn't always happen. So if I can't come off a screen, I wear blue blocking glasses. You may have seen these kind of with biohackers, they've got red lenses, and they block the blue light that comes from small screens, TV screens, e-readers, laptops, all of that. And what that light does, just in the same way that we look out of the window in the morning to wake ourselves up and set up the circadian rhythm, that's got a lot of blue light in it. That's what's having the impact on the brain to say, hey, let's get going.

Let's wake up and crack on with the day. If we have too much of that at nighttime, we're suppressing the production of melatonin, which is the hormone that's helping us to sleep better. So it's really important that we give our bodies the chance to make melatonin to help us sleep. So we need a red light for that. So dim your lights low, light some candles, turn off all your white overhead lights. If you have a screen filter, put it on nighttime mode. If you're going to look at your screen, try not to scroll, late night scrolling. Try not to scroll, not only because of the light, but because it gets your brain going. And we need our brain to be calm.

If you can, offload your brain by just having a pad of paper beside the bed. And anything that's bothering you, write it down. You get it out of your brain by just having a pad of paper beside the bed and anything that's bothering you write it down you get it out of your brain and onto paper and then your brain doesn't churn over it at night I think you know we've all had that monkey brain haven't we at night where we're just hoping thinking oh my gosh you wake up did I remember to do that you know who's going to feed the dog tomorrow did I pack this you know how am i going to remember if you write it down your brain can forget about it because it knows it's safely parked for the morning and then chances are you'll have a better night's sleep but then you know i talk about things that are practical that can help

like magnesium supplements before bed really helpful there are some herbs passionflower for example is rhodiola that's another adapt adaptogenic herb, ashwagandha. These are all things that are also super helpful. And hormones, oestrogen obviously is very good for helping you sleep if you're oestrogen, low in oestrogen. So you end the book saying that we can't control the past and we can't predict the future, but those things don't define us. So what do you hope for your future? I really want all women to thrive and to realise that it is possible to feel better than ever in later life. And for me, I just want that trajectory to continue and to continue to be able to work. I end the book actually talking about

purpose. And finding your purpose in life is really important it's a big part of well-being it's a big part of who we are and why we do what we do and that sense of purpose and community and friendship and belonging and knowing why we get up in the morning you know I'm a lot older than you but I don't want to get to the end of my life and look back and think well what was all that about was that it I don't think there's much danger of that, Liz. You've done quite a bit. There's still a lot to do. 36 books?

34, 36 books? Wendy, a lot of them are very small. It's more books than I've written, Liz. I think that's a lovely idea, though, to kind of want to, that your purpose is to not look back and feel like you haven't had a purpose. Yeah. Wasted opportunity. You know, life is a gift. I think all of us who, you know, came through the dreadful lockdown years, you know, realise more than ever just how precious life is. And we need to seize it. And unfortunately, you know, rates of mental health are just soaring off the charts.

And there's a lot that we need to do to try and address that. And I just think that by hopefully reconnecting people with the things that really do make a difference, you know, we can then get on with life and stop worrying about, you know, hopefully declining health in later life because we are feeling better fitter stronger than ever and more capable and ultimately that leads to more joy yeah i think that's brilliant um well this thank you so much for joining us today it has been wonderful to chat to you and i feel like both wendy and i and all of our listeners have come away with some real tangible things that we can change to improve ourselves so thank you i'm off

to buy a tongue scraper and some himalayan pink salt thank you for having me it's been such a pleasure thank you liz thank you don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels instagram facebook tiktok just type in netmoms and you'll find us and if you liked what you've heard today we'd love for you to give us a five-star rating press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials