The Netmums Podcast - S14 Ep2: Weaning Wisdom with Lucy Upton

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

Welcome to another episode of The Netmums Podcast! This week, hosts Wendy Golledge and Alison Perry dive deep into the world of weaning with special guest Lucy Upton, a qualified paediatric dietitian and feeding therapist. Lucy shares her expert insights and practical tips to help parents navigate this often challenging milestone. Discover the "golden opportunity" windows for introducing tastes and textures, and learn how to sift through the overwhelming noise of parenting advice. Lucy also discusses the importance of variety in your baby's diet and reassures parents that it's perfectly okay to mix homemade and shop-bought baby food. In this episode, you'll find out how to handle common weaning concerns, from gagging and food refusal to the pressures of getting it right. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Netmums socials: @netmums / Facebook / TikTok / X  Series 14 of the Netmums Podcast is produced by Decibelle Creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... We know in weaning we have kind of two distinct windows. We have like a taste and a texture window. And the best way of describing these is that they're sort of this sort of golden opportunity where a child's probably, and just to say this is most children, not all children, will be very interested in taking a wide range of different flavours. This is when you sit and your kid sucks a lemon and you're like, really? Really? You're okay with that? But before all of that, this episode of the Netmums podcast is brought to you by Heinz, the best choice for

baby food. Alison, we've chatted about weaning before and I know you found it stressful. I'm not surprised with twins. Was it seriously messy? Oh my goodness, Wendy. I think that we still actually have some puree that is basically welded onto our kitchen wall five years later after it was chucked there by a small person. I think the more they enjoy it, the more it seems to go everywhere. The only thing I seem to be able to get my daughters to eat was Heinz baby food. Yes, Heinz has got so many pouches now, which would have made feeding my picky twins

so much easier and so much tastier when they were little. The range of flavours is incredible, especially the new Heinz Immunity Support Pouches range. They've added vitamin C. Oh, that sounds amazing. I bet parents are stocking up on those. They're actually different from anything I've seen before. Head to Heinz for Baby on Instagram or TikTok to find out more. Hello, hello and welcome to a new episode of the Netmoms podcast. Now we are recording this a couple of weeks before you're listening to it, which means it is the start of the new school term and I for one am cock-a-hoop about this. I wrote a three A4 page to-do list this morning. That's how expectant I am that my life is going to go back to normal.

Now they've gone. I wave them off. I love them dearly. I'll miss them terribly. But thank God for silence. Oh my God. Alison, tell me I'm not the worst mother in the world. You're really not, Wendy. I am exactly the same. I spent the entire summer basically saying,

I'm going to do that when the kids go back to school. I'm going to do that when the kids go back to school. So basically now I've just got a massive to-do list and I'm trying to be gentle with myself and take it gently. But one thing that I'm definitely going to do today is go to the supermarket and restock on snacks because the kids have literally eaten me out of house and home over the summer. Oh, I am relishing not being asked for something to eat every 30 seconds at the moment. Even the dog is just like this. Because nobody's annoying him well i think our guest today is very well

placed to help us with feeding smaller mouths but i reckon she might have some tips for older ones as well because lucy upton is a qualified pediatric dietician and feeding therapist she helps parents navigate weaning but also things like dealing with challenging allergies and supporting neurodivergent children. She posts brilliantly helpful content on Instagram, where she is children's dietician, and we can't wait to, pardon the pun, grill her. Lucy, welcome to the Netmoms podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. Thank you for joining us, it's lovely to have you on. Let's start with a biggie Lucy, why do so many parents find weaning one of the most stressful parts of the parenting journey? Because it is and actually I think

because it is and if you're sitting listening and thinking yeah hands up that's me, a thousand percent you're not on your own. What you will almost certainly have, by the way, in your group of friends is someone who's breezing through, whose child eats everything. And they will be the person who you compare yourself to. But please know you are not on your own. And I think it's probably for a multitude of reasons. It feels like a really big milestone for your baby. Starting food is something loads of parents say to me. I just want to get it right. reasons um it feels like a really big milestone for your baby starting food um it's something

loads of parents say to me I just want to get it right I know how important it is and I think that layers on a lot of pressure which we're probably going to talk about later in the kind of the impact that then has on sort of feeding and eating and those sorts of things but also in terms of like noise you know there's lots of parenting noise about lots of things and you know sleep and behavior but like food nutrition is one of those it is a busy room there was a lot of nonsense in that room there are a lot of clowns in that room honestly and I think it's just having the confidence to sift through all of that information the information coming at you in your ear from a baby group from grandparents from online forums from online. Like, how do you pick what's best?

How do you know what to do? You know, and there are lots of little, like, micro decisions that you have to make along the way, including, like, the fateful decision we all have to make every day, which is, what am I cooking or offering my child today, multiple times today? That's so true. It's the bit they don't tell you, isn't it,

that you have to plan meals for the next x years three times forever this is your life now and then all the snacks exactly um but what was your own experience of weaning like lucy was it a breeze like were you that parent in the whatsapp group because your your daughter is about 18 months old now isn't she so were you that parent kind of like, you know, that everyone was comparing themselves to? Or actually, were there hiccups that in real life kind of taught you that actually, this is a bit different to, you know, just the theory of weaning? It will make you both laugh. So in any of the WhatsApp groups where there were like new mums that I knew, like from like from like you know pre-birth groups and stuff

like that nobody knew what I did because I was like I don't want to tell anybody what I do because I think you know it's for lots of reasons protect to protect my own sanity I think as much as anything else but um so I wouldn't say I was that person in the whatsapp group what I would say is I the one thing I felt very confident enough was how to navigate the blips and what to expect as normal. And that comes from over 15 years experience now actually hands on seeing it, doing it with families. So you very quickly, because I'm privy to all of that information, I have a kind of normal trajectory and every other offshoot of that. So I was probably a little bit more chilled. My partner was like not so chilled

but would just look at me and be like what now what do we do now um so yeah what do we do Lucy um so I would say so I would I would call it a very typical weaning experience in that at times it felt really slow my daughter was teething my daughter got sick she didn't eat for what felt like weeks and don't get me wrong I was not immune to the mum niggles of like do I need to be worrying about this now like you three weeks it feels like not a sausage has passed your mouth like literally nothing has gone past your mouth and I think I had to like remind myself of a lot of the sort of things I talked to parents about which is that your baby is learning about all of these new foods for the first time right so that learning is lots of micro learning that's lots of looking at it smelling it squishing it and the thing is

that's hard for us parents because the goal in our head is put it in your mouth and eat it because then I feel so much better right but actually learning about food and this this applies whether your child is six months old or six is so much about actually I'm exploring all of that other sensory information about that food I'm working out you know the nerve endings on our hands are really really sensitive as we all know when we cut burn whatever ourselves and that's for a really good reason because that kind of information helps us our brain work out what it's going to be like when it gets to our mouth so when they're doing your head in smearing it all over the tray and you're like oh good yay I can't wait to get the mop out for the 16th time today it is for a reason and I actually spend quite a lot of my career when I'm talking about

kids and babies and how they learn about food being like this annoying thing they do that's normal that's really it can be those two things it can be annoying or sometimes quite worrying but it can also be normal so yeah it was what I would consider to be relatively smooth but with plenty of kind of hiccups the one thing I would say is even though um you know I knew to expect this I knew it was normal I knew all babies do it the gagging at times is quite ferocious and it really gives you that like oh oh and you know again I'm really grateful because first aid is something I have to do every year to work in hospitals and things you know so that that sort of side of things is really I felt confident about but when it's happening in

front of you there is I don't know a single parent who isn't at that point in fight or flight mode like that's normal and it's horrible to see and you just want to do something about it and then all the kind of information is just like just just leave them to it and you're like how long do i live how long do i live i'm sat here looking at you you're still going with that bit of broccoli gagging okay so you know it's it's by no means this beautiful perfect packaged up you, and also the amounts of food that my, you know, my daughter ate, I knew not to expect very much. But at times, I was like, wow, I really am over serving here. Like I am on 12 meals a day myself here, like, because I am finishing up after

you. And I think it's that sort of like, you know, all of those expectations of parents, there's no guidebook for that you know some babies will eat this much some babies will eat huge amounts more because they're much more food responsive or they started weaning a bit earlier so even though they're the same age one of them's got a month more experience potentially you know it's it's really hard not to compare though isn't it well and as you've said there's so much advice out there and everyone has an opinion and there's always that mum in the whatsapp group whose child is eating shed loads and then they correlate that to and since he started eating he sleeps so much better so it's all overlaid because all you want

to do is get some sleep oh my god my daughter did not do that. No, in my example, my kid didn't eat or sleep. So that was fine. No, no, no. But how do you cut through this overwhelming noise and work out what advice to listen to? And everyone says, listen to your baby. They'll tell you what they want, but it can be very hard to do that.

So what's your advice? Yeah, I suppose there's a few things to think about here I kind of I always think about it like a three-pronged approach like a fork let's go in with some sort of dinner time analogy shall we so I suppose the first thing is where are you going to go for your advice that is the ins and outs it's a bit about the nutrition that's a bit about the skill development what to expect ideally for that you do want someone who's got some qualifications and has worked with that group of children right so that is people like me like dietitians registered

nutritionists um you know pick someone who talks to you and resonates with you you know loads of us everyone's fab and and and stick with someone for that sort of information without trying to flip too much i think can be quite helpful because the moment you start hopscotching, the moment the confusion starts to kind of layer on. So you want somewhere to go for like what's how's, what not to's, nutrition, etc. And then I think on top of that, what can be really helpful is the places you go for inspiration, right? So the places where you go, actually, I want some some ideas around what to cook, how to cook it. And there's obviously some fantastic Instagram pages out there. And you've got communities as well, like Heinz Ween and Community, their Instagram page. And you've got books. So somewhere where

you can go, again, reliably a few times, because I mean, hands up guilty, how many recipes have you saved, for example, on Instagram or TikTok or something i've never gone back to tab some of your favorites save them to a folder there's also this crazy thing by the way you're all welcome for this that you can do on instagram where you can now like send it and like save them into like a folder so i had like a weaning recipe like folder yeah really unhelpful for people listening like that's great I can't see how you do that but like somewhere where you can at least go to rather than me sifting through like is it a recipe oh that's a coat I liked oh look there's a picture of someone else's baby because I like the outfit you know so somewhere where you go for your information about how to do it what not to do

things to expect development etc somewhere for where inspiration, you know, that side of things. And then I think kind of the third thing is potentially groups or a community of people doing it at the same time as you. So again, this is why you kind of want communities can be helpful. But my advice to you there is moderate that because certainly I think I joined a few communities with various things and I cannot keep up with like all of the flags and information so you know streamline as best as you can and think about who you're going to and for what and I think it is tricky for people because there is lots of very well-meaning people who spell out a lot of weaning or feeding children kind of information based on their own experiences and I need you all to know everybody's experience of this will be slightly different.

And just because one person has done it one way doesn't categorically mean that is the best way for you and your baby. And that is that kind of idea of following your baby's lead. If you start one method of weaning and you're like, this is just not working out for me or you, fine to change. You know, it's all of those things. The idea is about sort of tuning in and following what your baby is doing god we wish they could tell us don't we like please just tell me what would you like today like what do you want are you gonna eat shall i not bother today um but they are one very instinctive about how much they want to do two about how they

learn about food it's messy it's annoying it's squashing it's throwing it to the dog it's going through that phase where they drop everything over the side of the high chair all of that is very normal kind of trajectory and development for learning how to eat which is what I like calling weaning right by the way like when everyone's like what do you call it I'm like learning how to eat because that's what it is and I've kind of gone off on a bit of a tangent here but I like it because it sets a slightly different precedent in that if your child is learning to walk when they first start learning any step to learning to walk right which is by the way you know lifting up their head and then

you know working towards crawling potentially we accept that's a process of months and we don't expect them to be whizzing around the garden on day two but with feeding there seems to be this sort of different expectation that like as soon as food is in front of a child they know what to do with it i'm telling you right now it's a skill they need to learn and it is going to take some time we don't nobody you know some kids walk at 11 months some kids walk at 18 months right and everyone's very accepting kind of of those differences but when it comes to food the we've seen the goalposts seem to move in terms of development. And so if you're listening and you're sitting there and your baby is seven, eight, nine months of age and you feel like your baby is slow, which I don't actually like as a word, or just going at a steadier pace than their peers, please know that's very normal for lots of babies.

That's so reassuring. Now, I gave my little ones a mix of homemade food and shop-bought baby food when they were little and there were moments when I felt guilty that it wasn't all homemade. Is it okay in your opinion to offer a mix? Always. Do you know the first thing I always say to parents and I know kind of you know I don't want to undermine the fact that weaning is quite an important developmental stage where kids are getting quite a lot of experience around food but again it's thinking about those layers of pressure if I was to ask you both now like Alison and Wendy like do you feel guilty about not homemaking all of the food your children have now do you feel in the same way about it no that's so interesting

interesting isn't it yeah we're all very accepting of it and you know as i say sort of caveat that with we do talk about weaning being this important period of time because basically for most babies at this point in time they're developmentally primed to learn how to eat which is great so it is the time where we want to go lots of flavor lots of texture don't hold back just go for the learning side of things. But the way that you do that can absolutely be a combined method. And I don't think I've ever spoken to a family who hasn't at some point, at least used a mix because life is busy. We're bringing up our children in a very, very different, you know, kind of world these days. Parents go back to work

sooner. You're juggling lots of other kids. You know, there's so much going on. A mix is absolutely fine. And so the key things I would say are wherever you can combine where you can. And just to say that doesn't need to be distinct. I talk to lots of families about being like, fine, use a pre-prepared, you know, pouch of food and use that as your pasta sauce so you don't know do you know what i mean so there's ways to combine so you're still getting some different textures in there and you've still got the element of convenience if you are you know one thing i will say is if you're using kind of pre-prepared foods that would be made try and offer it with a spoon just because that will support kids or remote development but also go and look there's so many and you know in the case of Heinz

there's so many different sort of flavors and varieties these days in terms of you as we know because that aisle is getting bigger and bigger and bigger isn't it and longer and longer and longer when you're going down the supermarket like wow this is like a whole like aisle and a half now in some sort of supermarkets so you know you can go from something that's a tuna dish that they might have or a lamb dish they have or you know Hein is the same, or a chickpea dish if you're sort of following more of a sort of vegetarian or vegan-led option. And then, you know, those foods, whilst, you know, they're going to have nutrients still in there for your baby. I think, again, this is sort of idea that they're, you know, devoid of any nutrition, which absolutely isn't the case. And, you know, some brands like Heinz, for example, will add in specific nutrients.

So I know that they've got kind of a range of yogurts like the apple pear and yogurt kind of range that's got vitamin C added. And we love vitamin C when we're introducing food to kids, because it helps with the absorption of iron. You know, it's great to have those sorts of options available to us. But what I would say is that that kind of mix is nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to kind of fear. And wherever you can make fresh food great, sometimes the tricky scenario comes is when, and this is really easy to do, by the way, as a parent,

when you find something that your child likes and they eat a lot of it that day, you immediately think you're on to a winner. And the tendency is to be like, I'll keep offering that because they eat it. Yes, like they've got a full tummy. And what I would say is in order to gain that range of experience with tastes and textures, variety is king. So that can be variety across the food that you make. It can also be variety across the range that you might be buying from if you're buying pre-prepared kids food.

Like, but there's nothing to be ashamed of. And there's no, I see lots of babies weaned on both who do absolutely fine. This is a quick reminder that this episode is brought to you by Heinz, the best choice for baby food. Whether you're just starting out on the weaning journey, you've got a picky eater or a baby who loves new flavours, Heinz is the best choice for you. Their huge range of pouches and delicious flavours makes it so easy for us parents. Head to Heinz for Baby on Instagram or TikTok to find out more. So can offering up that variety of flavours help with weaning in the long run.

Because mine were so fussy and one of them remains fussy. And I often wonder it's because she didn't eat very much. So I did exactly what you've just said. And when I discovered that she ate something, that's what she got given because she ate it yeah yeah which is really really instinctive as a parent to want to do so again I always come in and say yeah I totally get it are you doing this because you're worried about this or sometimes there's backgrounds around getting enough nutrition gaining enough weight you know all of that sort of noise that's at the back of your brain like nutrition is important your child needs to eat so I would say it is a really, really important time. So we know in weaning, we have kind of two

distinct windows. We have like a taste and a texture window. And the best way of describing these is that there's sort of this sort of golden opportunity where a child's probably, and just to say, this is most children, not all children, will be very interested in taking a wide range of different flavors. This is when you sit and your kid sucks a lemon and you're like, really? Really? You're okay with that? And they really will take, you know, bitter, sweet, sour, umami. All of those flavors will be a fantastic way of helping them broaden their palate and get used to what essentially is going to come at them when you think about family food

and introducing home foods is that variety of flavors. We don't all eat the same food of the same taste every day so the more variety you can get in ideally yes it sets children up well for you know continuing to accept those things and also you know the one thing i would say is you know kids are really primed to very instinctively to like and accept sweet foods it's often steered with a negative slant and just biology. You know, biology, that's just normal, right? That normally, breast milk, formula milk is sweet, right? And instinctively for lots of kids, sweet to all of us will mean energy. Kids need energy.

Babies need energy. So going for those things and enjoying those things isn't something to necessarily be worried about. It's just about offering that broad range of tastes, textures and different flavors. So again, don't be afraid of spices. Don't be afraid of herbs. I know, again, across different ranges, if you're thinking about prepared food, you know, Heinz have an example of like, there's like a sweet and sour dish, and then there's a chicken dinner, you know, there's different flavors honed in there. And if there is different kind of vegetables in there different proteins in there then you're going to have a slight change in the sort of taste and you know yeah it's great if you as much as you

can get in but always without the okay oh my god I need to make something different every day kind of thing you know and putting yourself under pressure spend hours in the kitchen sometimes I just say to parents whatever you yesterday, if you haven't got time today, just can you add something different to change the flavor? Like if it was bolognese, can you put some like cumin or something in there and it will change the way it tastes, right? So immediately there's a slightly different experience for your child. And you can do that, you know, you can put, you know, yogurt pouches into porridge, you can do all sorts know you can put you know yogurt pouches into porridge you can do all sorts of different things and the other thing I would say is like don't worry too much

about things that go with babies we try and create these like beautiful you know meals like if one day it's a throw together of literal stuff you've got left over raspberries and ham that was my oldest favorite raspberries together well there's nothing wrong with that sweet and salty everybody everybody loves that these days she doesn't eat either now might we add oh okay yeah obviously not she probably food jagged on them and just had them too much she doesn't want them anymore which by the way kids do that too just because they love to challenge us you know on day 364 of the year, they'll be like, I don't like that anymore.

And you're like, what? Why? And you try and like logic and negotiate with them, don't you? Like, what do you mean? You've had it every day this year. Maybe that's why they don't like it. Yeah.

Yeah. They've had it too much. Genuinely, we have a thing. It's called burnout. It's food jagging. They just go no more. You know, if you go on holiday, let's say you go to like, I don't knowaly or something you're like give me the pasta lucy's

here for the past give me the pasta every day you get home you're like i cannot look at the pasta do not do not offer me a pasta dish for at least three weeks honestly that is kids that is kids they they they love something and it and it will flip so the more you can rotate even if that's just a different flavor on top of the cereal in the morning or a different slightly different spice or a bit more garlic than usual the less likely they are to do that um now we hear a lot about whether traditional weaning or baby led weaning is better i did a mix of both with all my children partly because when i was doing kind of baby led i was always a bit worried that they weren't getting enough enough food and enough energy and calories um is there much difference

between the two in how in terms of how it benefits children and babies nutritionally so there's so many different arms to this so just so you know everybody I'm going to just put that out there for everybody to hear loud and clear whichever method you choose or choose or if you use a combination, that is great. That is totally fine. It's got to be what works for you and your baby. Please do not be scared or bullied or coerced or whatever it might be into thinking that there's only one right way. And the thing I always remind everybody is the end point's the same. Like this six months, like the end point is ideally that they're kind of eating the sorts of foods you have at home right the which road you take to get there and how that meanders honestly in the grand

scheme you will not think about again probably unless somebody says oh well actually it's because that's the reason they're a picky eater which by the way there's no evidence for that either so what i would say is nutritionally there's but there has been some really interesting research um that came out i think about a ago, a couple of months ago. I'm losing track of time. Bear in mind, it was a very small piece of research. So, you know, we're not looking at a big, like, going to make it into kind of really big scientific journal status. But what it showed is that when they compared kind of the energy intake of children who were doing a baby led approach so sort of finger foods family foods on those sort of more traditionally kind of spoon led weaning is that their energy intake wasn't much different

which you know so if you were choosing an approach because you wanted to try and get more calories into a child or get them to eat more that's not necessarily the right way to do it I think and it kind of goes back to this whole idea that I've sort of talked about throughout this podcast is that like, either way, they're both still learning how to eat. And actually, to begin with, milk is going to be a significant source of nutrition for most babies, that's going to gradually taper down. But to begin with, they just got to get used to this thing called food and this thing called eating and develop all the skills they need to manage. So, you know, it's, it's, there are theoretical pros and cons to both. But honestly, what works well for you and your family is and your baby. And like I said earlier, if you switch because it doesn't feel like it's working,

is going to be the right approach for you. And I really despair of, you know, parents come to me in tears that, you know, with their child who's perhaps got some sort of feeding challenge. And they're like, is it because I didn't do this approach? And my answer is always no, because it's so much more complicated than that, you know, and all of these things saying, if you do it this way, it will prevent this. One, overlook how complex feeding is in children and feeding development in children is. But two, I just find it inherently blaming. And and actually most of the time no parent's done anything wrong there's so much more going on for that child than when you sort of realize and you unpick under the surface um so yeah just that thing of offer variety with tastes

textures and try either either way of your baby can lead right they will and they will they will some days have something and some days have nothing and that is okay so talking about challenges you mentioned at the start that you help parents of babies with allergies what are the main challenges that they face and how do you help them oh it's tricky have either of you got any kids with allergies my now eldest was really allergic to eggs for about two years and now is absolutely yeah so she like she'd get big welts on her face and her eyes actually we had the same thing went in my eldest when she was a toddler a baby and toddler eggs like we had to put in the bath once we were just like what is going on yeah and um and she's grown out of it completely yeah and it happened I think someone who didn't know about it gave her eggs one day and it had gone and that was that so nothing significant

I'm allergic to oranges though Lucy which is the weirdest thing yeah it's not I know of many people with with orange citrus allergy actually so i think for those families there's a couple of things so bear in mind some families reach weaning and they already know their child's allergic to something like cow's milk right so immediately there is something on top of all of this stress that we've talked about already there is well hold on a minute how do i make sure they get the right nutrition because they can't have milk or dairy or anything containing milk which by the way isn't loads of food though so they've got to navigate that so milk alternatives what can i use how do i still make sure that towards you know progressing

through weaning they're going to get all the nutrition that they need those kids are also a higher risk of getting other allergies so if you've got one you're more likely to have more than one allergy basically um and so and parents find it really nerve-wracking navigating kind of introducing other allergens into their diet so going for things like egg and peanut which we know are things we should be prioritizing now we know that that evidence has completely shifted around delaying introduction of any allergens and it's all about great great you started weaning get them in go let's go but that's easier said than done and it's really easy for me to sit here and be like yeah just blitz up a boiled egg and put a bit in their food

but actually if you have a child who's had a horrendous reaction to something already you know you're going to be really nervous about it you're going to you know that's not enjoyable is it about introducing food sitting there again in that fight or flight mode like not making any plans for the afternoon so you can sit and watch and check for reactions. So there's a whole nutrition side of things that food choices are much more limited. There's navigating introduction of other allergies. And then there's just general day to day anxiety of like having to label check everything that they pick up for their child. If you go out to soft play, it's not as easy as just picking up what you can so it's just another complication for parents and I think the

way I always approach it with my families is to really focus on like because so much about allergies what you can't eat I really go in for the opposite and go right let's think of all the things we can like what can we eat how can we broaden their diet how can we expand it how can we give you peace of mind how can we make sure your child is getting their diet? How can we expand it? How can we give you peace of mind? How can we make sure your child is getting all the nutrition that they need to? And it is manageable, but you know, most of these kids should and need to be under the care of someone like a dietitian. Because also, you know, I say to parents, like, just because, you know, you're going through that stage of introducing food to your baby, it doesn't mean that you also, you know, have to put on a hat of being a dietician an allergist

a speech language all these other things and you're like I'm just a mum like I'm not supposed to know all of this so you know it's it's really really tricky and we know that you know we know so much more nowadays about neurodiversity and its links with food how common is that in babies and toddlers in terms of in terms of what seeing differences in food and so what i would say so i work with quite a lot of children so i do some work for feeding um a clinic and and children who have um much more notable feeding differences so we're looking here beyond kind of fussy or picking eating that might be sort of developmentally driven. And we're looking onto children who find eating really difficult. So what we do know is that children who, any sort of neurodevelopmental diagnosis are much more likely to have feeding differences. And that can be due to lots of

things. One of those things for lots of children is that they find the sensory process of eating and eating is probably the most sensory thing that we do challenging for one of many reasons and some children are under sensitive and some children are over sensitive to taste smell texture you name it so what i would say is it's really difficult in terms of picking that up young what i reflect on when i assess children generally who are much older because often they're getting a diagnosis in sort of the toddler or preschool years is that when we trawl back through many parents will say to me there were issues with feeding right from and sometimes it's from milk feeds right but then it's like you

know weaning they really lucy they really wouldn't accept more than a few range of foods. We really struggled with texture progression. Like they were gagging at the sight of food repeatedly. I couldn't get that broad range in. If they got sick, they dropped foods, which by the way, loads of kids do, but we never got those foods back into their diet. And so it's really, a huge percentage of that group will have differences around how they eat and the foods that they accept. So it can be, again, a tricky one for parents to navigate. And we talked a little bit earlier about how what you kind of don't realise when you sign up for parenting is that you have to provide three meals a day for the next x years forever i am even now forever running out of inspiration so if there's someone listening with a weaning baby or toddler who is done with what to cook for dinner give me your super quick nutritious anyone will eat it meal

go no my god i've got loads but generally no no pressure that's fine no pressure um so my go-to is anything in a pancake or fritter form right because there's no exact science usually to making it you chuck stuff in a bowl chuck it in a pan and everybody feels better and you can get quite a lot of things in there so i know heinz have a fantastic recipe that's like a savory pancake that uses one of their pouches, half a cup of flour and some water. You can add in extra veg, grating some carrot, grating some courgette. We all love being able to, any parenting win, right? Just adding anything extra in. I love anything like that. You can do the same, you know, tin of sweet corn, an egg, some flour, courgette, chuck it together, chuck it in a pan. And actually you've got lots of food groups there all together.

So, and you can serve those things, you know, savory pancakes, you can serve with like egg or like a yogurt kind of as a dip. Or if obviously if they're sweeter and you use like a sweeter pouch or fruit, you can serve them with more fruit or yogurt, you know, anything like that. I remember they don't need to be picture perfect ever. Good. That's hard, isn't it't it yeah all of those beautiful plates as you were describing that I was thinking I wonder if my five-year-olds would that be up for like a savory pancake for dinner tonight like literally I'm thinking yeah what have I got in the fridge that I can chuck in with some eggs

and turn into some kind of savory pancake so, thank you so much for coming along today. You're so welcome. Helping us and inspiring us and reassuring us. It has been so great to chat to you. Thank you for having me. Don't forget, you can get in touch with us on all social channels,

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