The Netmums Podcast - S14 Ep9: Charlene White - Christmas, culture, and parenting beyond perfection

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Join Wendy Golledge and Alison Perry on The Netmums Podcast for a chat with Charlene White. You might know her as an ITV News presenter and Loose Women host, but today she's dishing out her thoughts on parenting, cultural identity, and handling the hustle and bustle of modern life. Charlene talks about the ups and downs of raising her two children, alongside a busy career. She opens up about her Caribbean roots and how they shape her parenting style, with a focus on good manners, discipline, and keeping cultural traditions alive. The chat gets real about the pressures of being the 'perfect' parent and why it's more important to focus on what truly counts in family life. Charlene shares her candid take on the unrealistic expectations parents face and why happiness and health should top the list over chasing perfection. Charlene gives us an insight into her new book, "No Place Like Home," diving into what 'home' means through her own experiences and others' stories. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums  Series 14 of the Netmums Podcast is produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... I know I'm a good parent. What people externally who don't know me, what their opinion is of me, I don't particularly care. I'm not seeking validation for being perfect from anybody. I just know what happens within our home. My partner and I know what happens within our home. Our families know how we live our lives. Welcome back to another episode, everyone. Now, I want to have a slight rant about Christmas. It's mid-November and I haven't booked anything in terms of Santa's Grotto, ice skating, light walks, all of that stuff, pantomime. And I'm feeling the pressure and I'm trying to work out whether I need to scurry around

and try and quickly book some stuff for my family and my kids to do this Christmas or whether I just need to go the opposite direction and just book nothing. Because frankly, will my kids even notice? Wendy, what have you got booked? And tell me, what should I do? Oh, it's a tough one. I also have nothing booked due to rank disorganisation on my part. And due to the fact that everything is bloody booked up by August the 21st.

So unless you've actually been on a booked ticket mid-August, you're not going to get to go anywhere. So I, by default, am now doing the let's do lots of fun things at home. Because partly, I think you're right, it has become a bit of a we must all do Christmas lights and we must all go and see Father Christmas. And it's just a lot of pressure at a time when we're all already kind of maxed out isn't it yeah oh totally totally so so are you thinking then that I should just go the opposite direction and not book anything in and just try and do everything DIY at home go minimal let's see what our guest has to say let's see because today we are joined by award-winning journalist and

broadcaster Charlene White. Now, Charlene, as I'm sure you know, is an ITV news presenter, a BAFTA-nominated Loose Women host, and a pioneer at the forefront of news broadcasting. Her book, No Place Like Home, came out in September, and it's a thoughtful exploration of what and where home really is. She's also hosting Childline's Merry Little Christmas show at Cadigan Hall on 10th of December. I'm now regretting slightly, now that I remember that, I'm regretting being a bit humbug about Christmas. We love Christmas really. Charlene, a warm welcome to the Note Moms podcast. Hello ladies. Oh it's such a joy to join you both. And Alison when you started off and you talked about not having booked anything I've just written a note on my paper book Father Christmas because I've completely forgotten that

everyone works far in advance and I'm usually the one that's like this is it and last Christmas I tried to get like a fancy booking but i think i was trying to do it like the second week in december which was just not going to happen so instead the kids just went to see father christmas at school during the school fair and put them in there instead and actually pta school fair saving mum's arses around the country this is it and And they do. The thing is, whether you book that or whether you do some really fancy schmancy thing like Harrods or Kew Gardens or whatever it is, the kids don't really care.

Like they don't notice the difference, do they? Yeah. And of course, Wendy and Alison, there is only one Father Christmas. So wherever they see Father Christmas, they're happy. Exactly. I've got a 13 year old charlene that ship has i've also got a nine-year-old who very much is still in the santa mode but um so you are mum if i'm right to a seven-year-old and a five-year-old yeah Yeah, Alfie's seven and Florence is five.

I always say that Florence is five going on about 15. She's a little girl that very much knows her mind. Yeah. That's how we want them all to be. Yeah, exactly. So what sort of mum are you? Are you a strict mum? Are you a fun mum?

How do you mum? I think any of the mums at school would say that i'm a strict mum with uh with a side of fun um i think uh i i pair it in quite a caribbean way manners are very important please and thank yous um being able to talk up for yourself be uh answering adults when they ask you a question and just discipline i'm very big on on discipline probably not as tough as my parents were with me and my siblings but for both me and andy discipline is is huge i i always would like to feel that if my kids are out with anybody else i'm safe in the knowledge that they'll be polite and they'll be kind and that they'll listen when they're spoken to and and I think for any parent that's like key really well if you if your kids

are anything like mine they are more polite and they listen more when they're with other parent other people like they're like a dream when they're with someone else with me utter nightmare yeah they don't have meltdowns with other parents do they no absolutely um but you said recently quite recently on instagram that you're not sure that you ever really nail parenthood what's been the biggest challenge for you so far do you think well i think there were so many oh gosh so many different elements that we have to think about as parents at the moment i come from two working parents and i know how difficult that juggle was for the both of them. You know, they worked like five jobs between them exceptionally hard and then also had a

layer of parenting as well. I think especially as mums, the guilt tends to be thrown in our direction when actually it's on both sides and we we all have bills to pay you know we've got food to put on the table and all of that stuff so working for a lot of families is non-negotiable and then you sort of think oh well am I working too much that I'm not spending enough time with the kids and then if you spend time with the kids it's like I'm not putting enough work I'm not doing enough in my work life no one's ever happy so we just shouldn't stress about it as long as our kids are happy and healthy and you know lead good lives I think that's all that we can hope for really because what we instill in them which we'll do

every day that's what will carry them on into the future um I don't think anyone ever nails it I don't come with a handbook. I mean, my gosh, how much easier would life be when they discharge you from the hospital? They go, oh, and here's your parenting handbook. Here's the book. Here's the baby. That would make things so much simpler. It's funny you should say that, though. I did that last week. I had that kind of nobody's getting the best of me I'm not quite doing everything I should be at work I'm certainly not being the best mum I should be I'm really not being a very nice wife and basically it's like I think we all feel this pressure that we have to do all of it

perfectly all the time yeah and it's a physical and mental impossibility it is and I think a lot of like I don't feel like my mum was obsessed with that at all she didn't have time to be obsessed with being perfect she you know she had a job that she loved as a social worker working with children and families um as well as working in children's homes my dad a driving instructor and a postman and everything else that he did. All their focus was is providing a safe and secure home for their children and to ensure that we got a good education. Whereas in the 90s, I feel like that changed. And we were a generation that was sort of told, you know, that we could have everything and that everything would

be brilliant. And that actually don't, you know, oh, but if you do that, you may not be giving enough of that. Suddenly the pressure came. And that was when I believe that we first had the term superwoman, that you can be a superwoman and be perfect at everything. And then we started stressing when we couldn't be perfect with everything and at everything. I think that's where the shift happened. I think we all have to be of the understanding that we are not going to be perfect at everything. No-one has perfection. We've just got to get through day to day.

It's so easy to say, though, and so easy not to do. Yeah, but we put so much pressure on ourselves ourselves we just have to learn that we don't have to be perfect perfect for who like is it perfect that we can show other people that we're being perfect is it we're worried about what other people may well may well say about us I get that a lot I don't post up my kids a lot on Instagram I don't show their faces at all but I also don't post a lot about them because that is my choice but then I'll get a lot on Instagram. I don't show their faces at all, but I also don't post a lot about them because that is my choice. But then I'll get a lot of, you know, I get like a handful of people kind of go, oh, you never spend time with your kids. I feel sorry for your kids, blah, blah, blah.

I know I'm a good parent. What the, what people externally who don't know me, what their opinion is of me, I don't particularly care. I'm not seeking validation for being perfect from anybody. I just know what happens within our home. My partner and I know what happens within our home. Our families know how we live our lives and they know that we've got great kids and that we do jobs that we love and we provide for our kids. And that for me is all that matters. And I think sometimes we have to look at who are we trying to be perfect for very good point so we've talked quite a lot in a not very moany way I hope about the challenges what about the best bits so far oh it's you know when both of them on an

occasional end up in our bed during the course of the night and it's sort of waking up in the morning and and just doing morning cuddles. And, you know, I'm not always there for about half the week. I'm not there for bedtime because of when I finish work and say every morning is like a catch up with the kids. How was your day yesterday how was school yesterday who did you play with and I do find actually they're more up for having that conversation than they are after school anyway because when you put them up from school it's like oh how was your day fine what'd you do I can't remember you know they never really nothing nothing whereas the following morning when we've got like morning cuddles and we catch up that is one of my

most favorite parts of the day because actually they're chatty at that point in the morning which is quite nice yeah um now you've already mentioned that you parent in a caribbean way but how different is your kids upbringing to your own are there things from your childhood that you try to do with them um and do you worry actually about keeping their feet on the ground because I know you don't talk about them on social media but they know their mum's on the telly and I'm guessing you know you get invited to like celebrity showbiz events so is that a consideration for you as well? Yeah I mean I don't any sort of kids film or whatever that I get invited to they they tag along um and they're, you know,

they're very privileged in that way. They don't care that I'm on TV. It's not something that, I guess, because it's all they know, they're not really bothered by it. And their friends that they're at school with, that's all they know as well. So they're not particularly bothered by it either. So it's not something that they focus on in their lives, really. I, you know, my, my parents were really strict with me, there's a lot of stuff that I wasn't allowed to do growing up. You know, for a really long time, I wasn't allowed to eat at other people's houses, for instance, that was a big thing for them. I guess, because in their mind, it was like, I don't know what anybody else's kitchen is like, I don't know if they're sanitary. I don't know how they cook. You know, I don't know what their hygiene levels

are. So we weren't really allowed to do playdates that much, to be honest. Whereas my kids from day dot have been allowed to go to their friends' homes and have playdates, you know, spend all day. That's something they've been allowed to do and they love. And I never really had that at all. You know, I'm of a generation where it's like when you're around adults, you know, don't speak unless you're spoken to and children are meant to be seen and not heard. My parents were really strict with that with us growing up whereas we you know in our home anyway we live in an environment where adults are in and out of our home all the time so of course my kids are going to be speaking with adults and I want them to be able to speak up for themselves and

stuff I don't want them to be seen and not heard I want them to get involved in discussions to know what's happening in the world you know there are very slight differences in the way that my parents raised me and how I raised my children, but also my parents were immigrants. So I was raised by immigrants. Their, you know, their experiences of life and living here were very different to mine. I'm born here. So, you know, I guess my assimilation into British culture is very different to what theirs was they had to learn a lot more in order to be able to learn how the rhythm of this country works whereas I'm born here so instinctively I know that so you know even those slight nuances do change and you know do change the way that I'm parent that I parent because we are slightly

different according to the generations. You just said there that you want them to be able to chat about current affairs. And I was just wondering if, is it kind of like politics and current affairs around the table? Or is it Roblox and Taylor Swift, like the rest of us? What goes on in the Charlene dinner table? Well, I don't hide things from them. I mean, I'm old school. My kids at 7.45 every morning when they're eating their breakfast. Newsround is on at 7.45

and they both sit and watch Newsround when they're having their breakfast. And any questions they have about the stories that Newsround are covering, we talk about. So, you know, it's the US presidential elections. There's a lot of talk about Kamala Harris and Donald Trump and the difference between Republicans and Democrats and the sheer number of people that vote in the United States. We have conversations about that.

The thing that I love is that I don't shield my kids from what happens in the world. The language I use may well be different. But for me, it's very important that they understand where they sit in the world. They live on an island, but that's not the only thing that exists in the world. I want them to understand what else happens in the world. And therefore they understand that they're privileged in terms of

living in a country that's safe, you know, compared to, I don't know, one of the friends that he is in his class at school, Lev. He is a refugee. He came over from Ukraine when the war started. And I remember a year on the one year anniversary of the Ukraine war, Newsrun had an incredible documentary, looking at the kids who are still in Ukraine and followed them going to school, for example. And we sat and had a long conversation about the war in Ukraine. And he was seven now, he was five at that point. And we had a conversation about it. And he said, well, how did Lev get here, mummy? And I said, well, when you go into school today,

why don't you talk to Lev about his journey from Ukraine to London um with the knowledge that you've learned from watching the documentary and see what he says so I'm not going to hide from him the fact that a friend that he's at school with fled war I'm not going to hide that from him but it's how I have that conversation with him which is really important so we did go into school he did have a conversation with Lev and then that evening he you know came home from school quite excited and told me what Lev said and so suddenly you've got this five-year-old who's very much aware that he's not living in a country where he has to be scared of a bomb um hitting the high street down the road but he knows that he goes to school with someone who did have to be afraid of that. And that's why his parents took him away from that. So Alfie understands where he sits in the world. And he has a big

world map up on his wall, which was really important for me to get when he moved into his own room. Because when we're talking about countries, I can show him where the countries are on the map. So again, he understands where he sits in the world. And that's important, I think. Well, speaking of knowing where you sit in the world, your book, No Place Like Home, it looks at where our home really is and why. And you talk in it, don't you,

about your own story of growing up with London as your home, but also knowing that Jamaica was home too. Yeah, so as I mentioned earlier, I'm a child of immigrants. Both my parents are from Jamaica. So in the book, the first couple of chapters is talking about, you know, my grandparents and parents moved here as part of the Windrush generation and how they fought tirelessly to create a home here

against a lot of outside forces that wanted to make sure they never felt at home here and made them you know forces that made them feel like they would never belong here so I talk about them building a home here my parents building a home for me so I talk about growing up in a Jamaican household in London so therefore my heart belongs in two different places. But throughout the book, I talk to other people about where home sits for them. I talk to the family in Alfie's class about moving here from Ukraine and why they made the decision to do it. And also, more importantly, what they packed in the car when they made the decision to drive away, just because I want people to think about what elements of their home tell the story of their life that they would want to save if they were in the same situation. And I talked to a wonderful, wonderful man called Chris Wild, who grew up in care here,

to talk about what home means to him. He lived in children's homes here, a very notorious children's home up in Halifax. He lived on the streets. He joined the army. And I talked to him, therefore, because he lived this life that was scattered and didn't always have a centre from the age of 12, because he had a normal childhood until 12. Where is home for him as a result of that? And his story is utterly fascinating. And I talked to a couple of guys who served in the armed forces here as well. Loads of other stories, but in the armed forces, because it's a fascinating thing with anybody who serves in the armed forces and who serves on the front line.

How do you feel about home when through the course of your work, you may never return to it? So it's really interesting about how they feel about home when through the course of your work you may never return to it so it's really interesting about how they feel about home when they are at work because they think too much about it well and also when the course of their job is protecting home or their home nation as well exactly yeah it's really fascinating talking to them about how they feel about it in their heart, because it's not often something we think about when we talk about those who serve. They do an incredibly dangerous job that we all rely on, but they leave their families when they do that in the knowledge they may not come back in order to, in a lot of circumstances, yes, protect us, but also to protect the homes of other people, protect other people's children, protect, you know, the four walls of other people, knowing they may not return to their own children, their own families, their own home.

So that was also just a fascinating discussion for the book as well. How many times did you cry writing all of these entries? There are some really joyful stories in it. Food, food is a thread that goes through it as well, because so many of us growing up, they're like particular meals that our mums or our grandparents, our grandmas would cook. But as soon as we smell it, it's like, oh, it's home.

And it physically can change the way that we stand the way we sit if we open up the door and suddenly it's like the wafting of your favorite meal that a loved one has cooked for you it just brings so many memories into our minds and physically almost relaxes us it's like doesn't matter what else is happening outside of that door with work with life with anything just the smell of your favorite meal can almost just melt all of that away and for a lot of the stories when people are talking about at home fits into that massively um because we all have a meal that makes us think about home I mean what about you two Wendy Alison what's the meal that makes you think about home? Well, I grew up in Scotland. So for me, it's got to be like my mum's like mints and tatties.

I love it. And can you can you cook it in the same way? Does it ever smell or taste the same as when you're mum? No, no, no, never. See, my nan used to make these things. I don't really know what they were. They were called wee houses. And they were these little coconut, like, pyramids, almost. And I just remember the older she got, the more inedible they got. But they really remind me of all of us. I'm one of about 40 cousins, and all of us remember nannies wee

houses as being something that were delicious and able to be used as a weapon depending on how well she'd done with making them that day. So how much of that Jamaican life and culture and food do you celebrate in your house? So the kids kind of, do they feel part Jamaican as well as being Londoners? Well, yeah, it's important for us that they visit Jamaica as often as we can really, because it is a part of them as well. And, you know, I'll do a Christmas dinner, for example,

keeping with the Christmas theme. And, you know, they will be, there'll be Jamaican elements in the mill that we have any sort of birthday celebration or whatever we have in this house I mean a storm will always be cooked we'll cook a massive amount of food because that's how I'm used to growing up I mean if you come here for a party and all you're getting is sandwiches or just like hot dogs, I think people think I wasn't very well because they come here and it's always cooked up a massive storm. And I'll always be like macaroni cheese. There'll be some coleslaw. There'll be chicken of some variety, a up in a household where when we did occasions you always you show your love through food so you show your love through food and you know my in-laws

know they used to feel quite uncomfortable at it at first but they know that it's absolutely fine they they come to our house with containers with with plastic containers, because just like my mum did, just like my aunt does, just like my grandparents did, we always cook way more food than's needed, because you send people home with food. And so I always make sure that my in-laws come with containers, that my daughter's birthday, you can see the happy birthday sign is still up, I need to take it down at some point. So we had, you know, loads of people round for that. My neighbour across the road is originally from Beijing and she's been desperate to try Caribbean food.

So her and her family came over as well. And she was just beside herself with joy with having Jamaican food. And I sort of said, oh, no, Meng Meng, make sure you go over and get your containers. You can take some food home. And she was like, are you serious? I'm like i'm like yes of course and she came over with one and i was like that's just not gonna do um come back home with a couple more and i'll send you home with three containers worth of food and she was honestly just so happy and i sort of said that's what we do

we always cook more than we need because that's that's my for me I'm showing you love by sending you home with leftovers and that's not unusual I can go to Jamaican weddings funerals christenings and whoever has provided the food usually caterers whoever's provided the food the caterers will come with a whole stack of containers because everybody will leave with food um and take food home that's just what we do i love it i love it um now you recently celebrated 25 years of loose women congratulations um we all love watching loose women but what do you love about working on it I feel really lucky to work with a group of just fantastic women of all generations of all backgrounds of all different life experiences and you know I'm relatively still the new girl you know there are those like Jane and Nadia who've

been there and Kay been there for 25 years I'm quite new. I think I'm at four years now. But I've learned so much from them. There isn't anything that can be happening in any of our lives that someone else hasn't already had experience of. So we do reach out to each other for advice a lot of the time. I've learned so much about how to parent from the women. I've, you know, learned how to, I don't know,

to not feel guilty about things. And I've learned that through the women as well. I get to hang out with like this massive girl gang every week. And not everyone gets a chance to have a big girl gang in their lives, but it can be the most fulfilling, loving, impactful, and just joyous thing to have any girl gang but especially one of that sign um do you kind of have that dream guest he'd really like to have on is there someone who's kind

of you've got your eye on you just that's the person for me yeah and i keep saying this so i keep putting it out into the universe that it will happen. I really want to have Kate on, Kate Middleton on, because with everything that she's gone through over the past year, I believe that she must have a girl gang who has helped to lift her up, who've helped her to keep going in those moments, especially when you're parenting and you're trying to keep the really bad stuff away from your kids. There has to be a girl, Gan, who has sort of, I don't know, taken her in their arms and been like, we've got you, we're here, whenever you need us, we're here. She must have that. And I'd love it if she were able to come on and celebrate them and talk about them it's not often I think that the royals talk honestly about

friendship but I think the age that she at she is and what it is that she's been through and the way that she has connected with so many other women and other people who are going through cancer other parents it'd be lovely to have her on just to talk about the power of friendship because there are so many things that we go through in our lives but we can have the most amazing partner by our side but it's also the friends that help to carry us through and I'd love to have her on to talk about that. I hope she does have that girl gang around her. Now you recently took part in another all black loose women presenter lineup how important do you think it is to have that representation on daytime TV in 2024?

Well, I think the wonderful thing about Loose is that we're able to do so many things that perhaps other programmes shy away from or are too scared to do. We just do it. You know, we have such a wide variety of panelists that work on the show why not put together an all-black panel we've had a panel where we have highlighted um neurodiversity we've done a neurodiverse panel before because so many of our women

um are neurodiverse we have done an episode um and we're still the only program that's ever done this. We've done an episode where we looked at the deaf community, where our audience was full only of those who are part of the deaf community. The adverts for that episode were signed. They were completely silent and they were signed and had subtitles. We're the first show in the country to ever do that. We break boundaries all the time. And I think the programme that we do more than others, we're a programme that likes to change perceptions. And we are incredibly proud of doing that. There'll be those sectors of society that still will believe what's the point. But that sector is getting smaller and smaller every single year we do um a program that

they're not used to seeing um every time we do it that that sector of society that kind of says what's the point this is ridiculous proportionally it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller because people realize that opening the doors to others and fairly representing those who have been ignored in an industry for generations, people understand the importance more of that and perhaps aren't fearful of that anymore. And that is how you change perception. And we are doing that every single day.

The episode that, the last All Black episode we did fell in Black History Month, but we don't always do it in Black History Month. It's something that we do quite frequently when our schedules all allow for that to happen. And I'm really proud of that because there'll be those programs who only do that during Black History Month, but we don't. We don't do that at all. We do specials when people's diaries allow. And I'm really proud of that. We are, you know, we break through boundaries that others fail to do.

And I always feel that because we are a women's focused program, like yours is a women's focused platform. There's an element of sexism when it comes to understanding the importance of what you do and what we do um you know men sitting on panels talking about football which they've done for generations they don't tend to do all male panels now with that but men talking about football for generations was always taken very very seriously um i don't mind football but it's it's it's sport um but women talking about serious current affairs legislation that affects women medical conditions that affect women day-to-day struggles and joy that affects women is always seen as slightly frivolous and yet talking about sport isn't there is still so much sexism that i think that all female spaces still face.

But just like you're fighting the fight, we're fighting the fight. So we've been relatively mardy about Christmas so far, but I would like to ask you, and let's be nice and Christmassy, about the Merry Little Christmas show at Cadogan Hall. Tell us about it and cheer up Grinch A and Grinch B over here. Right then, Grinches. I'm so looking forward to this. I think when I signed on to do this, I think probably that was the moment when it sparked the Christmas spirit for me. Because the work of Childline and the NSPCC, I don't think we can ever, ever overestimate just how important it is. I've got loads of friends who are teachers, and especially during that Christmas period or any holiday period, but especially at Christmas, a lot of them get very fearful about the children because they're not seeing them every day.

They are in their own home environment. If they know that their home environment isn't great, tensions really can rise over the Christmas period. And that can negatively impact children hugely. So to be able to have this campaign that help Childline be ready for every question, it's highlighting the fact that over the Christmas period, Childline is open as it is 24-7. And if children are struggling and want help and just want to talk to another adult about what's going on that service is available for them to use and by raising funds by doing this christmas show it helps them to be able to do that i mean my friend um heidi range heidi partakis who of course used to be the sugar babes heidi's going to be singing and heidi doesn't sing a lot um in terms of you know doing like solo shows she doesn't do that a lot and she has the most

beautiful and angelic and just gorgeous voice I love that girl to bits and she's going to be performing as in as is Misha Paris who we know is amazing and the kingdom choir you said Wendy about a point from which I cry every time i hear the kingdom choir perform i'm with you they're incredible is that in a brass band if i walk into a shopping center and there's a brass band that's it waterworks instantly it's usually because it's also really cute little old men and i just stand there every time. Brass bands. Christmas in a shopping centre is going to be really emotional for you, Wendy. It will, Wendy.

That's why I don't get shopping centres. The joy of the internet. But we've also got, which is just incredible, we've got Jerry. Jerry Halliwell Horner. Jerry of Spice Girl fame is going to be giving a reading. I, for one, am very excited about that. I get to introduce Geri, who I've seen perform, obviously, as part of the Spice Girls a million times.

I will get to introduce her on stage, and I'm practically losing my mind over that. It's going to be so exciting. Honestly, I mean, I sort of say to anyone yeah if they want to get in the christmas spirit branches they want to get in the christmas spirit um have some fantastic performances see some big names including pandora sites and shanique or aqua to um giving readings this will be the tonic you need at the start of december to get you in that christmas spirit even you too wendy i think i think i think we need to buy tickets wendy okay it does sound amazing it honestly does

sound amazing i'm being a curmudgeonly old cow it does it sounds brilliant it sounds so good but um finally charlene um i want to ask, if you could click your heels together right now and say there's no place like a home, would you rather appear in South London or sunny Jamaica? At this time of year, Alison, it has to be Jamaica. I'm not being funny. I don't blame you. But who wouldn't want to be like sat on a beach in Ocho Rios or Runaway Bay with a rum cocktail in hand, you know, jerk chicken by my side, watching the deep blue sea.

I love it. Not my partner by my side, jerk chicken by my side. I'm keeping it real, Wendy. I'm keeping it real. I love it. I love it. He's right Charlene thank you so much this has been so much fun it's been lovely to meet you and good luck with the concert

I hope it's brilliant Thank you very much ladies it was an absolute joy to speak to you both Bye bye Don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels Instagram, Facebook, TikTok just type in Netmoms and you'll find us don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels instagram facebook tiktok just type in netmoms and you'll find us and if you liked what you've heard today we'd love for you

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