The Netmums Podcast - S15 Ep3: Charlie Brooks on parenting challenges, finding balance, and rediscovering dreams

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, we welcome Charlie Brooks, best known for her iconic role as Janine Butcher in the BBC soap EastEnders. Charlie opens up about her parenting journey and the challenges of raising a daughter in today’s world. The conversation dives deep into the complexities of modern parenting, touching on themes of independence, self-identity, and the ever-present mum guilt. Charlie shares her insights on: - Parenting styles: Charlie discusses the pros and cons of being a ‘fixer’ or allowing her daughter to navigate her own challenges. - Teenage years: Charlie reflects on the difficulties of connecting with her daughter during her teenage years and how their relationship has evolved as she has grown older. - Body image and self-acceptance: The discussion tackles the pressures of body image, both personally and as a parent, and how Charlie is learning to navigate these conversations with her daughter. - Career and creativity: As a successful actress and the founder of iampro, a support network for actors, Charlie shares how she encourages her daughter to pursue her passions in acting and film. - Dancing on Ice: Get the inside scoop on Charlie’s experience competing in this year’s series and how it has challenged her both physically and mentally. Charlie’s candid reflections on motherhood, identity, and the importance of self-care are sure to resonate with parents everywhere. Don’t miss this heartfelt and inspiring episode! Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums  Series 15 of the Netmums Podcast is produced by Buckers at Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... And I did a play with the National Theatre called The Ocean at the End of the Lane a year or two ago. And she came to see it and then for the first time she said, will you help me with my piece for my A-levels please, Mum? Fell on the floor like, yes, I'd love to. I'd love to help you. But before all of that welcome back everyone to another episode now Wendy I have got a question for you a parenting

question are you a you've made your own bed you can lie in it parent or do you rush out to help your kids and I'm asking you this because this morning my teenager my 14 year old um forgot to take her school uniform to school she went dressed in her dance PE kit I got a phone call from the school office at 10 past nine to say she's here without her uniform can you bring it and I potentially like an idiot jumped in the car and took it to her would you have done that or are you the kind of parent who's like you need to learn from your mistakes tricky i'm a bit of a cow bag i'm the latter sadly um my 13 year old forgot to tell us that she had home um food tech this week and so while i was at an event yesterday i got a call saying i need the ingredients for sweet and sour chicken which i don't happen to have and certainly can't muster

up while i'm in london and she's in surrey so she had to go and she got behavior points for not taking her food tech in so i mean i'm I'm afraid. I think with uniform, I might have swayed because that's a bit different. But it's a tricky one, isn't it? Let's see what our guest would say. Well, I'm going to tell you who we're going to be joined by today and then we'll ask her what kind of parent she is. Basically, today we're joined by a TV icon.

She will forever be best known for pushing Barry off a cliff on EastEnders. But these days, actor Charlie Bricks can be found treading the boards in theatres and running I Am Pro, a special network and support community for actors. She's also currently competing and doing brilliantly in this year's dancing on ice charlie a big welcome to the netmoms podcast so so lovely to be here thank you for having me so before we get into our questions what sort of parent are you leave them with no uniform take the uniform in um i think um over the years i've been a fixer and I've run to the rescue and I don't know whether that's was me and her dad aren't together or I'm trying to make her

life easier somehow but actually I don't think that that is a good thing and actually if in the times where I've ignored 17 phone calls because uh or not ignore them on purpose, been at a work thing or unable to pick up to find out it was because she couldn't get all of her clothes into a suitcase and she needed me to fix it. You know, it's like it's she then managed to find a solution all by herself, and then was really proud of herself. And I think for too many years, I've tried to find the solution for her, basically, is what I'm saying. And actually leaving them to their own devices sometimes and laying in their own mess, I think, is a really positive thing to do. And I sort of wish I'd done more of it I mean there have been occasions where I've done it in the past but you know the guilt the mum guilt the you just want to make life as easy as possible but you know it's not as I don't think it's the right way how old is she Charlie which is 20 now the suitcase love wasn't that long ago let me tell you first of all i have to apologize you must be pretty sick

of people talking about barry and that cliff by now i i'm i understand that this will forever be the opener of any interview id so it's okay um okay so getting back to parenting and Kiki she's as you said she's recently turned 20 do you feel like tick parenting done or actually will it never feel that way for me I think it actually got harder as the older she got I mean it became more interesting because you'd have to think of more um creative ways of helping and navigating your way through challenges and problems um and there have been a lot of challenges and problems it's not been easy and I don't you know it's it's it's actually been really hard sometimes um no I don't think it's ever ticked done I feel like as she's in the last few months have just been really amazing actually she'll say it herself

she'll go well my frontal lobe is you know has developed um but no but she comes to me more now so i feel able to help her and like my help is received better whereas for a few years there it wasn't required I was the last person you she would want to hear something from and not in all situations and I found that really tricky so Alison and I as we said kind of at the beginning of this teen joy well one of the things she said there that I found really interesting is that's the bit is also the bit that I find the hardest which is that suddenly not being wanted by them so was that the thing you found the hardest or were there other things I'm sure you're going to say there were shed loads of other things what was a lot I think um Kiki looks a lot like me and um she is creative

and artistic and and wants to be an actress and writer and director and all of those beautiful things um which I've really encouraged but all she's had her whole life is god don't you look like mummy you're gonna be just like mummy you're so like mummy aren't you and i think it absolutely drove her mental and so the further away from me she could get the better that's really interesting because my daughter is the clone of me and i already see her getting the at christmas when we saw lots of families she hasn't seen in a while she was like if one more person tells me that I look like you it's like so I totally get that yeah yeah um and now finally at 20 she's kind of like embracing it much more and I did a play with the National Theatre um called The Ocean at the End of the Lane a year or two ago and she came to see it and then for the first time she

said will you help me with my piece for my a-levels please mum fell on the floor like yes I'd love to I'd love to help you um so yeah um it's it's definitely it can be very tricky. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think through the last, well, 20 years, I'll say 20 years, what is the biggest thing that you've learned about yourself? I suppose the biggest thing I've learned about myself, like I've done a lot of work over the last five or six years so I gave up drinking which is huge because I loved a party and I loved a glass of wine it just wasn't serving me anymore and the main reason for that was so that I could be 100%

present for my daughter and not have you know breathe the wrong way or not be available to drop her or drive her and not be reactive on a hangover or, you know, not have anything. I just wanted to be 100% there. And in the journey of giving up booze, I think you really sit with yourself so much and you really learn to understand your own feelings that are in no way masked so I've learned things about my younger self that I didn't really even know existed at the time because I would always put a mask on and be like I'll have a drink don't worry about it it'll be fine but have a glass of wine lol well you know whether it's a good thing or a bad thing or don't worry it's a break up or whatever it is you know and it that holds down

and masks anything that you're really feeling and any fears that you might have had and I really started to understand like even at 17 going into EastEnders you know those fears that I had that are hid in confidence and I'm a go-getter and I'm determined and so actually making friends with that person um that younger version of me and understanding her has been really interesting and I've I've learned that I can be an extrovert in particular situations if I pick up on people's energies and I feel very very comfortable to be myself but I can also be very introverted and if I don't feel comfortable in a situation I can be very quiet and that's okay you know now I need I have to like the self-care element of this is I need my own space I need time to recharge I need time to step back from

the world and from people sometimes in order to show up and be the person that I can be. And that means putting in boundaries and being able to say no. And these are things that I'm still sort of learning and getting comfortable with. But, you know, if we want, sometimes the computer stops working, you just unplug it and put it back in. And so understanding that that is the same for me as a human being um was really uh important it's really hard to do though it is really hard to do yeah that's so funny about you saying about the computer needing recharging a couple of weeks ago one of my six-year-olds was saying to me um mommy do do this with me do this with me whatever it was you want me to play barbies with her or

something i said to her look you know you have to plug your iPad in sometimes to recharge it well mummy's sitting here with a cup of tea and that's me being plugged in I need 10 minutes to recharge and then we're good and she got it she understood yeah great I mean that's exactly it exactly um am I right in thinking that Kiki has recently moved to New York to study acting yes Yes, she did. She went to NYU. She went last year. And then just because of a few personal challenges, she's now at Bristol University and she's doing film photography and lots of acting as well.

That's amazing though. I mean, have you been suffering from empty nest syndrome? You mentioned that you've got, before we came on, you mentioned that you've got a new puppy. Is that kind of, know yeah uh the new york move was a really big one for me and i really struggled not like knowing who i was meant to be and where i was meant to be absolutely yeah same place for 16 17 years since she was little or since i got pregnant I moved to this area but we've been in the same sort of um house and um I and she went and and part of me was like what it's you like she's going it's amazing so proud of how brave she is like what an adventurer um and the other part of

me when it all sort of settled down and I came home was just like gosh I don't know where I'm meant to be now or who I'm meant to be and I went on a solo travel trip to Thailand which was amazing and then I thought my mum's in Bristol my brother's in Bristol I'm gonna go and do a test run living there is this area serving me anymore or is this good to bring up my child or am I then ripping away the family home oh my god so much I don't think I can cope but actually you know if you can just sit with that long enough I think the answer eventually presents itself and I was lucky to be in a position where I could go and test drive Bristol and I realized that actually I was a bit lonely there and I didn't at the time have a partner to go on that adventure with and I didn't really want

to start again with my friendship groups and and at the end of the day I love London so much uh I love looking into town to the theatre for a nice dinner you know I just I'm not saying Bristol doesn't have that but um helpful for your career to be in London as well a lot of the time I'm sure yeah yeah it is definitely yeah so now that she's that bit older and you're back in the sphere of being someone that she wants to ask for help what are those things that you're trying to teach her as she moves into being a proper grown-up and also following your career path as well uh staying out of drama is a really good one as much as you can you know and sort of being non-reactive i think is a big one just sort of staying in an elevated neutral

position as much as you can i think um understanding that sometimes what can feel like the worst situation in the world is quite often the best thing that may have happened to us. And understanding, you know, that the greatest thing we know is that we just don't know, you know, and trying to help navigate all those feelings of uncertainty. And I want it and I want it now. And, you know, she grew up in the social media boom. She was like the child of that exact time test case bless her yeah the test case and so for me as well it's trying to put myself in her shoes and understanding you know i mean they get so many messages and so much crap that comes through that we just have

no idea about and then we are actually as parents on the front line when they are explosive and that can feel really hard you know and so for me it's like trying to put myself in her shoes a lot of the time and kindness as well you know they can be quite selfish kids um they can but what's great is that you've started up this acting community and support system in I Am Pro. Tell us a bit more about that, because that must be incredible for, you know, amateurs and professionals, even, you know, people like your daughter who are training to become actors. They must be such a...

I think who might just come on it for the first time and it's been going for four years. Oh! Big moment. So it came about about four or five years ago. I did it, my my brother who is operations and my sister-in-law who uh kind of manages the whole thing because obviously i've been working and you know the day-to-day is let they do a brilliant job of kind of um managing

all of that but it was to find a an offer opportunity for actors who ordinarily might not have it we have amateur actors on there. Like you said, we have people who are more advanced. We've had people cast from the platform on Coronation Street. Nina Gold, who's a huge cast and director, cast someone from the platform. EastEnders, we have director workshops, casting workshops, get-seen events where they can get agents. Agents can come down and watch them perform four times a year.

And really, yeah, it's just offering opportunity. And weekly, we have weekly classes every day. So whether that's, you know, Shakespeare Made Easy or Exploring Further Shakespeare or screen acting, there's, you know, understanding film, understanding character, ugly characters. There's like so many brilliant things and classes that you can take part in. And we have a monthly masterclass from people like we've had Saran Jones, Daisy May Cooper, Denise Goff, David Morrissey, who is amazing. So, you know, to name sort of a few. So we've had some really amazing people come down and Q&A

and share their a and and and share their experiences and processes and depart you know impart whatever knowledge they have for our students and it's just the thing is like to go to drama school it's really expensive and to get in is really hard and um the way that people get an agent now unless you're a child star is to do your three your third year showcase at drama school which is where all the agents come down you know um and you sort of go from there and so without that it's virtually it's like so muddy as to how you get in i mean you can write create direct put plays on at fringe short film festivals which i encourage all of them to do constantly um but it's really difficult

and so if we can create a new pathway into the industry for people who cannot afford to go to drama school um uh yeah or like I say get in then that's kind of what what we're trying to do that's amazing yeah it's it's when you see it working and when you see people cast it's like the most rewarding thing it's extraordinary and i mentor on their monthly so we have monthly mentoring where um it's basically a a space where they can come and share any fears or successes or any questions that they have we usually have a theme running through it I set tasks that I would set for myself that I then just share with them so we we do it as a group you know I'm not an expert I didn't go to drama

school I don't know loads of stuff about I'm very instinctive as an actress and so um I might learn something from a director on set one day and go, oh, that's really good. And take that into my mentoring. You know, so it was it was created basically because I also wanted to learn. So it sounds absolutely amazing. Yeah, it's great. And a world away from dancing on ice. So I've been loving my little girl, my nine year old absolutely loves it. And we took her ice skating for the first time at Christmas and she was so terrible. It was not even funny.

And she's decided she wants to be in. I want to be in ice skating, mummy. You tell me what that means. But how daunting was it stepping out? Were you like a closet ice skater beforehand? Was it first time on the ice pooping your pants? I mean, I went to, you know, years ago, I went with a mulled wine at Christmas. I went a couple of times when I was a kid. Do you know what's beautiful about this, right, is I said it on These Women or Something.

I had lots of reasons not to do it in my head, whether it was not strong enough, my body letting me down, it's a reality TV show, you know, there were lots of kind of things that came into play. And actually, when I got really quiet and listened to what my heart was saying, I was just like, oh my God, that little girl inside, she's going, are you mad that the thought of not doing it, it felt so exciting. That's what's so beautiful about I Am Pro as well, by the way,

we've got so many mums on there that had kids, whether it was younger and then forgot all of their own dreams and just kind of went oh no well you know we had to get a job that are coming back and rediscovering like all this passion that they had because they went to drama school they always wanted to go to drama school you know so so if anyone like wants to go ice skating go ice skating because it's so fun and it's important that we remain playful as mums as women and we can forget that sometimes you know um so no i wasn't a closet ice skater yes i have loved every second up until the live show when it was the most terrifying thing i've ever done and we saw kiki cheering you on on the live show what did that

mean to you to have her there? She had a banner. She was there. It looked so special. She spent nine hours on that banner. Nine hours. It was amazing. She felt really, she was so emotional, Mum, and she was very proud.

And, you know, she wants to come every week, which is really lovely. Because there was a time where she wouldn't have wanted to. So it's like, it feels so nice yeah um but yeah it's such an achievement it's really hard it's really it looks really hard it is really i think it looks easier than it is there are some things i go my my beautiful pro uh dancer skater eric like you he makes it look so easy and it's not that easy like pulling my hair but you've got decent scores and good comments from the judges so you've said you'd like to make it to the final who's the biggest competition do you reckon other than yourself and your own fear of it i would describe my skating right now as bang average no you're good i think we all

hit a ceiling as well of like how far i'm very cautious and you need to have a certain amount of fearlessness which i'm really hoping to improve on um especially with dancing because there's every year there's a horror story about a celebrity who's catastrophically broken something. So you must just be there going, don't let it be me. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of jeopardy in this show. You know, there really is. But we're very well looked after by the team.

Sharon, the physio, is amazing. And yeah, you're very, you're well looked after. They won't let you do anything you're uncomfortable with, you know. So if I feel super confident in it, then I'm happy to do it. But I think like if I make the final, then that's great. But Michaela Stratton, I think is, you know, she's a fantastic skater. She's really putting in lots of work. And Dan was amazing on Sunday night.

Molly's amazing. The standard is really high and we've got such a good group. Everyone is just loving it. Like we are, that's what I, if I was to go, I'd be really sad to step out of that bubble because everyone is amazing.

Yeah, it does come across. Now you've said in the past that you've really struggled with body image, but you do seem in quite a good place now is that the case and what do you think the turning point has been I think um I mean it ebbs and flows you know I've I like everyone I think you know I would I would eat something beat myself up for it like food has taken up far too much space and energy in my head and so I'm trying to unlearn and unpick all of those behaviors um sometimes I feel

beautiful I have days where I feel really great sobriety has helped with that because you know you there's a lot of acceptance around who I am also I, I, I don't punish my body anymore. I don't, she says on Dancing on Ice. Are you starving when you're, because you're skating so much? Well, you can kind of eat whatever you want, really. See, there's no punishing there. Why not? There's no punishing there. But, and your bum gets nice and firm, which is just a bonus. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting one. I did a keep fit video when I was really young and I think from that that I was weighing myself twice a day and I got very very small and so I was never small enough after that I could never because I was never at that again which was unmaintainable for me because you are

talking to a girl who loves her food also that was that was in the noughties, wasn't it? When it was like proper toxic diet culture. Size zero brigade. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a long time ago and, you know, different reasons as to why I did it. But what it did do actually was give me an understanding of healthy eating in some respect, whereas I just didn't pay any attention to it before but I think about my life before I did that video and I was like uh it didn't take up the same space in my head as it doesn't did for the last you know for the second chapter yeah so I just you know I try and um

practice a lot of acceptance and you know I watched The Substance right which I thought was fascinating oh yeah the reason I thought it was I mean, it got all a bit grotesque and I know it's a horror towards the end. But the way it made me feel about my body afterwards, I was like, God, I'm okay. Like this is, you're there. And that internal brutal fight that we have with ourself, you know, that's represented in these two versions of the same person, younger and the older and and and the war that can feel real for women you know it's like I hate myself what you do know you're beautiful be accept be this be that did it um it really made me feel very happy to be in my skin and I didn't know that a movie like a movie it really surprised me with that which was beautiful so it's work in progress I have days where I did that a movie like a movie it really surprised me with that which was beautiful so it's

work in progress I have days where I did that this isn't a true story you know but the 80% now I'm okay as so we are three mothers of all daughters sat here and personally this whole navigating body image and health with my daughters terrifies me. How did you navigate that particular conversation? Well, we used to have a little chant that we'd say when she was younger. If we were like walking or running, we'd say, you know, it's good for my heart. It's good for my mind.'s good for my mind and then i can eat more chocolate no it's just trying to and actually i think the food element has been my biggest failure as a mom with kiki i um she was quite when she was very young she was really good at eating everything and then as she stopped eating the vegetables and got very i found it really hard to i would cook

like lovely meals and she'd be like that's disgusting that's disgusting and after like quite a long time of doing that you just think oh what's the point you just give in to you know the ease and I kind of wish I persisted more with that I think but um well no I definitely do wish I persisted more but it's a it's a very difficult thing to um help someone be comfortable in their own skin you know it's working out for all of the right reasons knowing that it's because it makes you feel good um eating for it to make you feel good not so that you can slim down and lose you know but my programming was always that you know skip meals don't eat um that's what we were all brought up with in our generation was you're not valid

unless you're thin and you're not pretty unless you're thin and so you mustn't eat and hopefully our daughters have got a slightly different perspective on it just growing up when they are growing up now yeah yeah and also the body positivity movement is a really powerful one i still encourage her to work out and do go for walks and things like that. But it is literally because it helps you sleep at night. If you haven't, if you're not sleeping, let's tick all the boxes of, you know, what's going to help you sleep. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

So finally, Charlie, it is two years since we last saw Janine in Albert Square. Might we see her back again there anytime soon? Or has that door closed? I don't think it's closed forever unless they don't want me back. I'm always open to conversations about going back. Janine's always a fun character to play. It just always depends on what else I'm doing, on timing. I've been doing a lot of theatre, which I've loved, although my nervous system could do with a break. Hold on.

The woman who is getting on the ice every Sunday says her nervous system could do with a break. Right, I mean, there's... You're that over-punishment. I really am. I'm like, I want to stay in my comfort zone just for a minute. I'm sick of being outside of my comfort zone well after dancing on ice maybe you should just have like a month of tv and sofa and

just don't do anything I mean after dancing on ice we go I go straight back into Chitty Bang Bang so I'm finished with them literally the day I finish it'll be off which is brilliant by the way great day out for the family come and see it we're at bristol plymouth manchester birmingham sheffield um all over the place i saw it back when it was in london on the west end and it was just incredible just such an amazing production i mean it's so bonkers historian but it's such a good day out like for the family it's really and it's so nostalgic as well thank you charlie for coming and chatting to us and telling us all of the things and being so candid about stuff it's always so refreshing to chat to someone who's really honest thank you charlie

thank you charlie take care bye guys don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels instagram facebook tiktok just type in netmoms and you'll find us and if you liked what Don't forget, you can get in touch with us on all social channels, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. Just type in Netmoms and you'll find us. And if you liked what you've heard today, we'd love for you to give us a five star rating. Press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials.