The Netmums Podcast - S15 Ep5: Oritse Williams on embracing vulnerability in fatherhood, overcoming loss and the joys of baby Shiva

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, Wendy and Alison chat with Oritse Williams from JLS about his wild ride into fatherhood. Oritse spills the beans on the highs of baby Shiva and the lows of sleepless nights and nappy disasters. He gets real about the tough times, including the heartbreak of two miscarriages, and how keeping his wife’s pregnancy under wraps was a protective move for their mental health. Oritse also dives into the tricky topic of dads showing their feelings, sharing how it’s helped his bond with his wife and how society can make it tough for blokes to talk about their emotions. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums  Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... A lot of men have reached out to me to say, Arishe, like, it's so helpful seeing a father let his emotions completely out in front of the whole world. Because the way that they themselves had dealt with baby loss or anything like that was basically stay stumped and try and be strong and think that being strong is being quiet and keeping it to themselves and for a long time that's how I felt and that that's what I was supposed to be doing. Hello folks, welcome to a new episode of the Netmums podcast. Alison, how are you today? I'm good today Wendy, do you know why I'm good?

Yesterday, I wore a new pink coat for the first time and I got three compliments from strangers as I was going about my day. A lady stopped me in the street to say, I'm loving your outfit. And then I went into a cafe and the lady who worked there said the same. And I was like, oh my goodness, what is this? So I feel like I want to dedicate this episode to giving random compliments to people. And the fact that you should just, if you see someone that you think, oh, I love what they're wearing or I love what they're doing, stop and tell them. It will make their day. Right. Well, on that lovely positive note, tell us who our guest is today, please. Our guest today rose to fame as a member of JLS, coming second on the X Factor many moons ago and selling over 10 million records. That makes me feel quite old.

I know, it was a long time ago. I know. Orish Williams has since released solo material and more recently became a dad to baby Shiva, but it wasn't the smoothest of journeys for him and his wife Kaz. Orish, welcome to the Netmums podcast. Hi, Alison. Hi, Wendy. How are you doing? It's good to be here. Thank you for joining us. So we have to start by saying congratulations because you're three months into being a dad. Again, how is the baby phase going? Oh my gosh, the baby phase is a journey. It's beautiful.

It's amazing. It's tough. No one wants to admit that it's tough. Guys, it's hard. Let's be real. As well as it being beautiful, it's hard. Obviously, he's got the most incredible mum and the most incredible wife in the world in Kaz.

So without her, honestly, I don't know what would happen. He'd probably be climbing on the walls. There'd be, you know what I mean, fingerprints and footprints everywhere. I definitely couldn't do it alone. That would be impressive at three months, I tell you. That would be impressive. Yeah, absolutely. I think he's a mummy's boy right now as well um so you know um i'm just i'm just enjoying watching just our

beautiful bundle of joy just kind of blossom and it's coming so fast as well because it felt like he was like this little bean and now he's like a really full-grown chunky baby so it's yes you got you got to save it every moment. So true. Do you think you were mentally prepared for this? Because, you know, it is exhausting and it is overwhelming, but you've done it all before. So do you think that you do you think that that has helped you this time around? Yeah, I mean, I mean, for me to be completely transparent and honest, I think being in a secure relationship, you know, and knowing what it takes to, I guess, get through parenthood as a couple together, married couple. it's it it's definitely taught me that how can I say it's it's not easy but when you're in the right team in terms of being in the right team as parents it definitely makes it a little more

easier because it's because the tough times get tough and that's when you really have to kind of be on the same team, especially in those moments. And obviously the great times are incredible and beautiful and amazing and wonderful and joyous. And I guess I'm grateful that I feel like with Kaz and myself, we just make the perfect team for our baby boy, Shiva. And, you know, I think for for me obviously my first son Omri um I think of him all the time unfortunately I don't I haven't had contact for for many years now

um but I do think about you know those early those early moments those beautiful moments that I did have you know with him and I think in the first time round, unfortunately, you know, just kind of circumstances and environment, he probably didn't have the best team around him, if I'm being completely transparent and honest. And it definitely makes a massive difference now that Kaz and I, you know are doing this together so you kept Kaz's pregnancy secret didn't you until after Shiva was born what made you do that

um I mean I'm not sure if we kept it secret I feel like we more kept it sacred um because obviously uh it's been well documented but but we had two miscarriages and you know mis miscarriage uh unfortunately and um we definitely felt a lot more sensitive to just kind of going through the process uh privately and taking any kind of undue pressure away from ourselves, especially Kaz, because after the second miscarriage, her health was impacted dramatically and stress and anxiety and pressure and all of these things um can just bring about so much difficulties in within going through the pregnancy so just kind of wanting her to be comfortable and at ease as much as possible was definitely the focus and the main thing for us and um and for her to try and take as much pressure off of her although she did naturally feel um an insane amount of pressure because her whole mentality was look i i just want to do

everything i can to get this baby here safely um and the question marks that run through your mind when you've lost multiple times prior, just they can take over. So just us having to really kind of go through that kind of mental, psychological and emotional process and journey, dealing with all of that, we just felt it was best to just kind of do that privately yeah I think a lot of people listening will have been through something similar with miscarriage um and I've heard you know people talking about how it's such a contrast between that feeling of

joy of pregnancy suddenly turning on its head and leaving you feeling devastated um is that how it felt for you guys 100 we couldn't enjoy being pregnant anymore it wasn't it wasn't like there was this blissful oh excitement and oh yeah we're we're um we're now uh gonna do a massive announcement and tell all our friends and family and everything was just nerves. It was all nerves, anxiety and pressure. Like as much as we're trying to keep all those things at bay, of course it plays on your mind. You start realising that, OK, nothing's guaranteed. And that's a scary thought. It's a scary... It's a frightening thought to think, oh, well, we didn't make it to the finish line the last two times,

why would we make it to the finish line this time? But still trying to keep some level and sense of hope between us was a challenge, but we got there. It can feel very unfair when you experience a miscarriage, and to experience it twice must just feel devastating. Did you feel that unfairness, that sense of this just isn't fair? Yeah, completely. I mean, that is so on point. It felt incredibly unfair.

Every beautiful, amazing moment that we had experienced prior to the miscarriages just might as well have thrown it in the bin. We just felt like, why do we deserve this? We're happily married. We're excited to have a child of our own we've got a beautiful home that's made and with love and and ready for a child to be a part of and we just felt like why why did we have to go through all of this right um in our lives why couldn't we have had that happy moment that you see everybody having on social media and posting up their excitement like there's no way we were gonna post uh bump pictures up prematurely like impossible like there's no way but we're so happy for everybody that does get to do

that um but it's just it feels vicious like it feels vicious it feels like it feels like life just slammed a hammer on top of us over and over again that That's how I felt. I think it takes away that innocence as well. The first time something similar happened to me and the first time you're pregnant, you're just completely innocent. You kind of don't think about any of this and then when it does happen, you can't ever stop thinking about it after that.

Yeah. Kaz has said many times that um people have said oh when you finally have your baby it all goes away and that hasn't been true in the slightest we're still dealing with pain anxiety still dealing with the impacts of the failed pregnancies um she's still struggling to walk still struggling to move still when he sometimes even this morning she was holding baby and wanted to come down the stairs and then suddenly anxiety just completely rampaged through her body and she had to go back into the room and kind of even come down the stairs with with baby um so there's all these different things

protection she's very protective over him you know especially because it's like what it took to get him here she just doesn't want anything she don't see a scratch a bruise and nothing like i'm very much like oh he's a boy he's a boy he's a boy don't worry like you know he's supposed to get roughed up and stuff you know but she's like nope not my son nope he's got to be um safe um at all costs in every single way i'm not taking any risks so yeah it's there's there's a lot to unpack and there's a lot to deal with and yes we do wish that we were in a place where we can completely just be in a this kind of bubble of bliss um but after what's happened has happened and happened more than once and the impacts of what's happened we we find ourselves in a position um being so grateful that our baby's

here and he's so beautiful but now we have to be strong for him so now very now Kaz is about to start doing therapy and um I've kind of gone back to the gym and we're trying to get healthy and doing more cooking and that was my next question actually Arisha I was going to ask you what are you guys doing to look after yourselves because what you've been through is trauma and you cannot underestimate that and the fact that you know it's a cliche but they say you know like happy happy parents happy baby you guys need to look after yourselves but it does sound like you're you've got things in place to to work on that yeah we're taking action we're doing a lot of research there's been a lot of

support um kaz has been very transparent on her social media platforms uh since we've had baby and that's attracted so many parents moms and people um to to us, basically saying, wow, I love how real and honest and raw you're being. Unfortunately, another blow yesterday, we found out that the type 2 diabetes, which usually goes during pregnancy, has stayed with her. So we had another blow yesterday. And so she actually posted about it online and had a lot of people come come you know rush to our social media to show support and give advice and her like our our through social media and with our family now we've kind of become this I guess this platform for conversation of real real things that happen or can happen during pregnancy and then on to becoming parents um i've i've had a lot of conversations with men

a lot of men have reached out to me to say arisha like it's so helpful seeing a father let his emotions completely out in front of the whole world because the way that they themselves had dealt with baby loss or anything like that was basically stay still and try and be strong and think that being strong is being quiet and keeping it to themselves and for a long time that's how I felt and that that being strong is being quiet and keeping it to themselves. And for a long time, that's how I felt and that that's what I was supposed to be doing. And it was actually only self-sabotaging and I was only hurting myself and becoming more emotional. And I had to cry.

I had to hit the floor. And my wife, Kaz, had to see me be vulnerable. And the fact that everything that was impacting her was impacting me just as deeply. So, yeah, it's a journey. We continue to go on this journey. So many men don't talk about the things they've been through. Why do you think dads feel they can't open up about this kind of thing? I think for a number of reasons. Obviously, naturally, the focus is always going to be on the mum

because the mum's physically going through it. So you kind of feel as a man well I've got I shouldn't I've got nothing to if my wife or my partner is is going through what they're going through on in every way physically emotionally psychologically then I shouldn't be out here complaining I should be being, I should be being strong for them, and being tough for them, and being the anchor, being the rock, and being the backbone, and I guess it's like, man beats chest, you know, kind of thing, hey, man beats chest, kind of thing, like, that's how I'm going to be strong, but really, vulnerability, and and sensitivity and emotions is what strength is.

And I think a lot of men don't feel comfortable being emotional. I feel like a lot of men don't feel comfortable being vulnerable. Like being vulnerable is a scary thing for most men. We want to be able to believe that we've got the cure for the world and we can solve all problems and all of that stuff, which is a bit crazy and weird and not actually accurate at all. Because if you look at most men who even leaders of the world, there's always this powerful woman that's kind of in their ear. That's truly the one making all the decisions. But no one wants to talk about it or admit that. Yeah. So when baby Shiva was born, did you guys open the doors to family and friends who wanted to celebrate with you immediately?

Or were you kind of more of a batten down the hatches kind of family like being in your own little bubble for a few weeks yeah I definitely feel like we just wanted to stay in our own little bubble because it took us so long to be here um I feel like us being with baby Shiva and just totally being in awe and embracing that the fact that we finally got to be parents together and we finally have a child that we're taking care of um it was the most important thing and I think also just the whirlwind of baby arriving and everything that comes with it you're so tired it's a whirlwind you're so tired I feel like a lot of people you feel guilty because oh man like you know this cousin or this auntie or this uncle hasn't seen baby yet and got to bring them over but when you're in like the thick of it all right in the hurricane of of of a baby

arriving and the responsibility that is bestowed upon you. Nothing else matters. You can't feel guilty. You've got to take care of this baby. You can't give baby back. The nurses aren't coming with you and staying in your house. And no one else is getting up at three to deal with the exploded nappy. Exactly. No one's getting up at three to deal with the explosion, the nappy explosions. So I just feel like just going easy on ourselves was a thing to do. And as and when people wanted to come and visit, then, of course, we opened our doors to family and friends who have wanted to come and visit. And yeah, it's been it's been lovely I feel like we've we've we've had the best kind of experience that we possibly can since baby Shiva has come and blessed us in our lives so what advice then um

have the JLS boys given you about fatherhood any tips on how to deal with those nappy explosions well to be honest like um we have obviously I've got amazing in-laws and I've got some amazing, I guess, I guess, family that that that have three, four kids. Do you know what I mean? That are grown, that have come and really kind of gave me advice uh the actor Ajani I don't know if you know Ajani uh but he he was in Dreaming Whilst Black and he was the director and the actor he sent me a few books I need to download off of Amazon and he's just become a father as well with all your spare time to read books obviously I'm like Ajani audiobooks to your friend trust me Wendy I felt guilty that I haven't bought the books yet and then it was just because where is the time? Yeah, don't feel bad and buy them as audiobooks.

Yeah. So I think that's exactly what I've got to do. It's just because there's been a lot happening, you know. Obviously, everything's been going so well with progress in my solo career. And this new chapter of my life is is is blossoming um but at the same time it's like i've got to make sure that i'm here for kaz and i'm here for baby you know i'm a husband first i'm a father i'm a father first now before i'm an artist before i'm a musician whereas i was before i was putting myself first as an artist as a musician as a

creative and that's now has to be you know third I'm a father or secondary I'm a father and I'm a husband first that's absolutely it we saw that you went away on a romantic getaway recently but took Shiva with you how different was that to previous romantic breaks it was very different um I actually wanted to bring him to one of my gigs um uh before on New Year's and Kaz was like babe you're not taking him right you know all the way to this other city right you're gonna go and do a show and do your rock star thing right and then come home do you mean to the hotel and you're tired and you're sweaty from performing and all of that no babe that's not happening go ahead and do your show and come and just come back home so so so that didn't happen but we did organize a romantic getaway um for our anniversary

our fifth anniversary and that was basically if you can imagine do you like the way i could best describe it is our car was like fred flintstone when you had all the stuff packed up on top of the vehicle. That's how it felt. I had a thousand things right next to me, right, in the car. There was, like, obviously nappies. I had the cot, the pushchair, the bottle warmers, the sterilizers. Sounds like you need a bigger car wendy exactly and that is what's happening right now he's gonna get a dadmobile i'm getting a dadmobile i love that not the

batmobile the dadmobile and that's actually happening so we went we i said kaz okay i give up babe i give up the bachelor car from old has to go. The dadmobile has to enter. And yeah, so that's what we're doing now. So we're getting the dadmobile. Just embrace it. Embrace the changes. This is it. So what is next for you then, Arisha?

Have you got any more JLS tour dates planned? Is it all about the solo material, which is brilliant? I was listening to it on Spotify yesterday. Thank you. So good. Or is, like you said, is 2025 going to be just more about you settling into being a dad to baby Shiva? Yeah, I mean, 2025 absolutely is about settling more into fatherhood. I'm continuing the fight for my first child as well, Omri.

You know, still trying to do everything I can to fight to be in his life and to bring the brothers together at some point. You know, so that's that's a continued thing in my life at this particular time. And then obviously in terms of the music side of things, I'm very excited by all that's to come in my new solo chapter, but at the same time, obviously JLS was my baby from the very beginning. I put it together. It was my band. And so anything that, you know, happens JLS related, I'm always very proud of, I'm always excited about, um, uh, and it's actually interesting now because I get to do the both I get to enjoy this band that I put together and being part of it whenever you know we're touring or doing anything um and now I get to really show people who I am and my culture and my heritage

through my new solo sound which has last year has been a whirlwind I mean I performed at Notting Hill Carnival I performed at L'Oreal Paris I performed um an open London Fashion Week millions and millions of views and streams on my solo music um on YouTube and on Spotify and on all these different platforms combined it's a whole world away from when JLS started. There was none of that stuff. There wasn't Spotify. Look, we're showing how old we are now. It's so weird.

I feel like a new artist. I mean, there's so many, as well as like, there's so many people from around the world that are now engaged in my music and they didn't even know that I was part of a band. And that's just so weird to me because it's like, usually everybody knew me from being part of a band. So then when people are to me because it's like usually everybody knew me from

being part of a band so then when people are discovering my music and they're like oh it's that that guy Arisha Williams he's he's a new artist wow I've just discovered this guy and I think to myself well I'm not that new but I guess I'm new in this new chapter of my music career well thank you so much for coming and telling your story to us today it's been a real pleasure to chat to you thank you ever so much for joining us. Thank you God bless you Wendy and Alison and I really appreciate your time and love to your families. And good luck with the next three months of exploding nappies. Thank you. Don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels Instagram, tiktok just

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