The Netmums Podcast - S15 Ep8: Embracing the madness: Vogue Williams the motherhood balancing act

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, Wendy and Alison are joined by the fabulous Vogue Williams, a busy mum of three, wife to Spencer Matthew, and the host of the popular podcasts My Therapist Ghosted Me and Never Live it Down. Vogue opens up about her parenting experiences, sharing the joys and challenges of raising her children while managing a hectic career. The conversation covers a range of topics, including: - Milestones in Parenting: Alison reflects on her 14-year-old's newfound independence in the kitchen, contrasting it with the demands of her younger children. - Parenting Dynamics: Vogue discusses the division of household tasks with Spencer, and the often-unseen burden of managing family logistics. - Child-Free Time: The importance of nurturing relationships outside of parenting, and how Vogue and Spencer make time for each other amidst their busy schedules. - The Quest for Kindness: Vogue shares her approach to raising kind children while navigating the pressures of societal expectations. - Future Family Plans: With Vogue contemplating a fourth child, the discussion delves into the realities of parenting and the impact of age on family dynamics. Join us for a brilliant chat filled with practical advice for parents navigating the ups and downs of family life. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting tips, community support, engaging content: Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums  Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich. And me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... Theodore, because he's six now, he does stuff to try and wind us up. And I'm like, I remember doing that. Like, I remember. I remember just like humming really loudly, like my dad would take us. And I was too old for this crap. I must have been like 17. And I'd be like, hmm. But before all of that... Hi folks, welcome to another episode. How are you today, Alison?

I'm good. You know what, Wendy? I feel like I have reached a milestone in parenting that I didn't even know existed. My 14-year-old this morning, I came downstairs and she was busy making herself breakfast, but not just like any old breakfast she was making herself a bacon and avocado sandwich with the air fryer she had just gone to the fridge gone to the air fryer sorting it out didn't ask me for any help and in comparison i know i'm totally winning and in comparison my six-year-olds are like fighting over which color of plate they get and making me cut their toast up into like it has to be four slices for one and two for the other and that's quite so destroying so it's nice to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel I spent six months making pepper pig shaped toast how do you do that you buy a cutter

oh I thought you were getting artistic and then you sing the theme tune for the rest of the day and want to kill your child because you're like... Anyway, anyway, give us the very showbiz intro to our lovely guest, please. Well, today we are joined by the wonderful Vogue Williams, mum of three, wife to Spencer Matthews and presenter of my Therapist Ghosted Me podcast and Never Live It Down podcast. Her book, Big Mouth, comes out in May and we can't wait because if there's one person who comes with a dose of honesty telling us how it is, it's Vogue Williams. Vogue, a warm welcome to the Netmums podcast. Hello and thank you for getting the Peppa Pig theme tune into my head now. I can't wait. Sorry. I've got to say that despite having three kids, you seem to have your shit together.

What is the secret? I definitely don't. I've actually had a morning as well today. Like, you know, those mornings. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I can't keep on top of everything. I'm just like trying to organise camps and just I'm like, why do they have to make the camp forms so difficult? It's so annoying. So I've had a morning of just life admin and not having everything together and a couple of tantrums thrown in, but you know, I feel okay now because they're all gone to skill. I mean, that's reassuring to know. I'm sorry that you've

had a stressful morning, but it's quite reassuring um but I've heard you talk before about how you get stuck into any job that needs doing at home and you worked on construction sites didn't you when you were a graduate um how do you and Spencer divide up tasks at home like is there a role reversal situation where you fix the broken radiator and he does the school run in the nicest way possible I would say I fix the broken radiator and I does the school run? In the nicest way possible, I would say I fix the broken radiator and I do the school run. I would say I do 80%. Welcome to most of the homes in the UK. We've actually been having a slight little

tiff about that this morning, about the stuff that I do. Yeah, I've had enough today one of my friends said last week she'd sat down she was really pissed about it so she sat down and worked out how many extra hours of just general stuff she did it was 26 hours a week and she sat down and worked it out and it was things like organizing playdates and It was 26 hours a week. They both worked full time. And she sat down and worked it out. And it was things like organising playdates and doing the online shop and all this stuff.

And he's a pretty hands-on dad. He does all the school runs, has loads of stuff. And she was like, I'm still doing 26 hours more kid stuff a week than you. Because there's so much kid stuff to organise, though. And with three, it's like you're trying to organize it's like oh no they're probably having a play date and my kids can't because i haven't organized it because we don't have the time to do it they've got some serious social lives though like i don't know when like too many that one activity is too many activities like we do a lot of activities but if you're not doing the activities

you're just kind of wandering around the park for hours i can't do it with you i'm still with you and my six-year-old twins we got an email last week saying that there was gonna be a new free yoga class after school on a wednesday with only 30 places across the school i have never signed them up i was like an extra half hour at the end of a day on a wednesday yes please no even worse my daughter's doing lacrosse after school today and she came home on the first day of term it's like for after first one she was like mummy what's lacrosse I was like don't care you're going it gives me till 4 15 on a Thursday off you pop what's lacrosse she actually really liked it but nevertheless she was like uh no I feel I don't remember doing anything like that when I was younger though like we just were like kind of

sent out you're like bye see you at five o'clock see you at six o'clock when we were younger so what kind of sleepers are your kids mine Mine were terrible, like proper bad. And I often wished I could say, Alexa, help my one for them. They are really helpful but I love that for my kids. We love reading and then they'll listen to that when they're going to sleep but to be honest my kids aren't the worst. Obviously we have moments

like Gigi comes in most nights but I kind of don't wake up anymore. When they were babies awful. Like anyone else but that's just what happens. And I remember those do you remember those mums

that would be like oh my baby's sleeping through at six weeks and you'd be like how what am I doing wrong they're just lying I don't think they actually are they've decided that through the night is midnight till 5am and they're considering that otherwise they've got earplugs in i don't i don't know how it would happen but mine now i have to say like otty will wake us up around quarter past six but i don't really mind that because i'm asleep before 10 most nights and theodore will will sleep and then sometimes when he wakes up in the morning i do hear him listening to the alexa because at least he knows how to do that then to listen to that and then i don't get woken up and he doesn't wake

up shiji and the whole house is it kind of runs nicer so how does the whole bedtime story thing work do you literally just say Alexa and it does it for you well my kids it's like that noise in my head my son is even like Alexa Alexa when we were on the ski lifts when we went skiing he can anytime that it would like buzz his ski pass he'd say Alexa I mean like it's not Alexa the two-year-old so basically you can ask Alexa to help my child get to sleep when they have sleep stories and one of them is mine which is Tumbles and Stripes and I worked with them with like a sleep expert um a professor a sleep professor I know amazing so she was the kind of there's certain ways to tell a story and how a story can wind a child down like we've always used stories and books um before bed like we do have

screens but for like half an hour and then the next hour is like calming down and books and beds and then Alexa when they go to sleep because sometimes they just like to listen to something extra that's so nice I think I might try that with my six-year-olds tonight I might yeah get them to listen to this I love the idea that it's being created to expect you specifically get them feeling drowsy and ready for sleep that sounds amazing that's what you want but as well like now I haven't worked it out yet because I'm so not good at tech but for people who are good at it it can turn the lights down and everything so like even in your own bedroom you can have an Alexa and it turns your lights down and stuff and it does your shopping list I haven't figured that out yet

I'm like Alexa what's the weather like today that's how that's how far mine Alexa set a timer is about as as far as i get that's pretty good um like you've spoken before about how important you think it is for you and your husband to have child free time and you've been away on child free holidays haven't you and i'm really with you on this like i think that's so important but what do you say to anyone because i feel like i see quite a lot like on social media i get this said to me quite a lot um why do you have kids if you don't want to spend time with them so what what would your response be to that kind of comment oh wow well we've spent a huge amount of time with our kids massive massive amount of time with our kids

but I think it's really good to nurture your own relationship as well because at the end of the day you're all a big family and there is no family with the two of you if you're always fighting and you're not creating some time with each other now saying that we don't have loads of time together but we just said we were like let's try and do like a couple of weekends a year where it's just you and I and then we we did one together we ended up having a fight not talking to each other for a whole day I was like this isn't how this is meant to go. I think, though, there's a lot of pressure on those weekends. Like, if you do them, you kind of put a lot of pressure on yourself that this has to be perfect because we're away together.

And then they do the thing that annoys you at home and you're like, oh, no, you're still annoying. I even think, though, like you don't need to go away. It's like sometimes at the weekend weekend because our weekends are so full we've got swimming we've gymnastic we've tennis with children's parties that I'm like like Sven he just texted me yesterday and he was like do you want to go for a walk and I was like I would love to go for a walk like just to go for a 45 minute walk just on your own out of the house and it's just like even trying to remember to do stuff like that because you do get caught up in the madness and everyone's house is like chaotic when there's kids and there's so much to be done all the time it's it's nice to sit back and just be like okay let's think

about ourselves for just like half an hour today so I read an interview and you talked about the importance of raising the kids to be kind and yeah I'm really with you on that but then how do you balance that with the pressure to please people I feel like I was I'm always doing the things that other people want me to do how do you balance the two I don't know it's kind of their do you know what they go to a school and that's like very much their motto it's about being kind like they come home and they have these badges and stuff and I'm like what did you do for someone today and it's just about being kind to somebody I don't know they I think they're too young to have kind of even thought about the people pleaser stage um I don't know how I would deal with that you forget that they do do things like that like

I remember wanting to do things like that you still have to remind yourself not to do it as well absolutely yeah yeah so I think that that's kind of like a constant battle I find that really hard though because like you know the whole thing about getting your kids to share with each other and take turns and my instinct is to be like share with your sister take turns and actually there's also a flip side of that of well no I want this thing and just because you want it too why should you do you know what I mean like why should I forgo my needs and what I want just to please you and I think that a really tricky one to try and kind of navigate I think we find that with Otto because

he's the youngest and like I don't know if this happens with everyone's family but he kind of feels like the boss and because he'll throw a complete stinker the youngest are always oh that's just the most yeah but like I find myself sometimes I tea just let him have it for a minute but then I'm like actually do you know what no that's Theodore's and I can't just be trying to like calm Otto down by giving him everything he wants and then Theodore doesn't get to have it so I try I try not to do that with them as well but like sometimes you just really want an easier life but it's you kind of have to stick by your guns a little bit and I feel bad because T's having to give up his little baby Furby thing that's what he's in love with at the moment now so yeah it's really hard yeah um now you've been really open about struggling to maintain

friendships as a busy mum and I think that's like impossible to try to you know keep all the balls in the air especially friendships um have you tried to make time for friends since having that realization or do you just prioritize home life and work I would say depending how busy I am definitely home life is the first priority then work and then friends but like for instance last weekend I was at a play center with with two of my best friends and their son and like when we go away so like that we're going away and they're coming away with us for a few days and it's like that's kind of how I see my friends and my friends in Ireland thank god they all have kids like we all have kids around

the same age so they come up and we have play dates and that's kind of how we do it but like I'm trying to be much better because I did notice that I was always like no I can't do that just because I was like by the end of the day I'm just gonna be so tired and I just you have to kind of just be like like I'm going out for drinks next week I know it's only early this week but I'm going out for drinks next week with two friends and I'm really looking forward to that I know in the day I'll be like I don't want to go but I'm gonna for You have to try and make time for yourself with your friends because actually you're going to really enjoy yourself as well. Yeah.

So you've talked in the past about being unsure whether you want to go for number four. I know. Have you decided that three is three and three is chaos and three is enough? Or is there a little bit of you that's thinking well go on then I'd say I 100% had decided before Christmas that three was enough like I couldn't have been more sure I was getting ready to get rid of everything I was going to go through all the clothes and start like, because that's my idea to give everything away. And then for some reason in like February, I was like, maybe.

Like I just, I can't fully make that decision. But I was, I'm not a good pregnant person. I feel I'm so, so sick. I have to sleep. The thoughts of that are really difficult because I literally had to sleep sitting up because I would just feel so ill the whole time. Did you get that thing that if you smell something that you smelled when you were pregnant and sick,

you can't, even now, nine years since I've been pregnant, if I smell Neutrogena grapefruit hand fakers, I'm like proper green Oh no And garlic as well I haven't been able to eat garlic Since I was pregnant Nine years ago

Oh I'd miss garlic now I have to say I think certain things With my cravings That I would have I don't want to eat anymore But I don't know I think that I was just so sick

I couldn't start cancelling out Foods I just remember Spenny When I was pregnant and I was very sick and Spenny was doing this like meal delivery. And you know, those ones that are like calorie controlled when he was, he was getting ready to do some fitness thing and the smell of them, I couldn't actually, I would literally have to leave the room I'd be like please please put the microwave downstairs I can't have it anywhere near me so those kind of things yeah I would avoid but that would be really hard with three wouldn't it because yeah you're kind of out of the picture a bit when you're that sick there's not much you can do apart from lay in bed and

rock quietly yeah the desperate moaning and you can't stop. You're just like, I'm so sick. And it's like, shut up. After a while, you just want it. You're like, shut up. But you can't stop. So I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know is the answer. Like, I love the idea of four kids and like the three of them are such great little friends.

But I'd say that Theodore and Otto are definitely they kind of they go off and play together a lot and I'm like oh I'd love a little sister for Gigi but I don't know I don't know yet it's such a hard decision to make and you're turning 40 in October does that play into the the thinking about whether to go ahead and do it or not I feel like I had it's it's kind of feels like it's now or never like within the next while or or it's not going to happen and I think if it happened great if it didn't I'd still be absolutely thrilled that we have three kids but I don't I like I just can't imagine the exhaustion of being older with with four kids that's why I'm kind of like do it while you've got a bit of a bit of energy I know a man

who ended up who who had gotten the snip and ended up having a child at the age of 62 his wife was obviously a lot younger yeah 60 imagine how tired you'd be and he's a really full and hands-on dad so he was just like knackered so how do you feel about the 40 birthday have you got it's going to be some massive party? I've actually realised that like I don't, I seem like I might be a bit of an attention seeker but I actually,

the idea of having like loads of people, like 50 people at a party, it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable so I'm not really sure what I want to do. I'd love to have like

something at my house in Ireland, like just small, nothing like, little bit uncomfortable so I'm not really sure what I want to do I'd love to have like something at my house in Ireland like just small nothing like I just want to have really relaxed vibes and nothing too too wild or chaotic I think whereas like 10 years ago I was like what I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna have all these people here and I'm like no way yeah there's a big difference between party for 30 and party for 40 oh big, big time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe someone will throw me a surprise. That would sort everything out for me. Spencer, are you listening? It's not. Yeah, I've been putting that in there. Would you like that? Like, would you not have the fear of God in you if you walked into a room and everyone was there looking at you, choking surprise?

I actually wouldn't like that. I'd feel really uncomfortable, but I'd like it in a way because that would mean that would be something that I wouldn't have to do. This is it. Someone else could organise it and then that would be something off my list. That would be nice.

Now, you've said that you were tough work for your parents growing up. I hear that you were suspended twice from your Catholic school. Are your kids much easier to raise or is karma coming back to bite you? There's certain things that they do that I'm like, like Theodore, because he's six now, he does stuff to try and wind us up. And I'm like, I remember doing that. Like I remember, I remember just like humming really loudly, like my dad would take us.

And I was too old for this crap I must have been like 17 and I'd be like 40 minutes in the car down to the garage just trying to see if I can annoy him but he never cracked my dad never cracked. God help you when they're teenagers if that's what he if they're going to be like you and he's already doing that at six or seven I was horrendous I deserve whatever's coming to me I was so bad your mum must be rubbing her hands with glee watching this unfold yeah well like even when I'm writing stuff down in my book in that I'm putting together like I'm like god I cannot believe I did that because things are coming back to me and I'm like oh that was actually really bad but um but yeah I think uh I was

I was the worst out of the out of the family of four kids um now your big big mouth comes out in me as we mentioned um and you just mentioned um writing some bits and pieces for it and you've said that when you're writing it you thought I'm definitely not normal and actually yeah humming in the car for 40 minutes but what other things as we're writing it made you think I'm not normal go on tell us that's what I wanted to call the book to begin with I was gonna call it I thought I was normal until I wrote it all down because just some of the stuff like some of the stuff my sister and I used to do to each other when we were younger, we like, we would spend our days, like writing these lists of things that we would go and do.

Like on a Saturday morning, we're going to wake up. We're going to play mommies and daddies. Then we're going to find that dog Jason and feed it. Then we're going to go swimming in the swamp. Jason, that's a good duck name. We thought he was a stray. He was not a stray. We used to do my like we used to go around carol singing and stuff uh like collecting money for charity until some woman had told us that she

thought we were stealing the money for ourselves we hadn't thought about stealing yet at that age so uh so and just even like writing about my older years and just like I'm so glad I'm still alive I don't know how I got here I think maybe all of us are a bit like that though I definitely think back to things I did at about 17 and think nah you should have been up in a field next to a bottle of vodka and think yeah not great that was a good idea. I remember our first time trying tequila. Me and all my friends, we decided we were going to get half a bottle each. So we all just

got all the, yeah, I never had tequila before in my life. It didn't end well. What were we thinking? If any of our children are listening to this, obviously this is all completely fiction. This didn't happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We're too young to hear it yet.

And binge drinking isn't good for you folks. Just putting that out there. No, definitely not. Drinking's bad. But Spencer's famously given up alcohol, hasn't he? How has that impacted you guys and your relationship? Do you still have a glass of wine or two? Well, Spenny like he gave

up alcohol completely for two years and now he'd drink on occasion but i actually don't like the taste of alcohol my friend joanne says it's my superpower because i would never ever think of having a glass of wine because i just don't like the taste of it if i was thinking how many like my thing is fizzy drinks so like if like use it down after a hard day, you have a glass of wine. I sit down after a hard day. I'm like, well, I have a second Pepsi Max or is that really that? That's kind of that's that's my thing that I love having. So party animal.

But I binge drink. So I know you were saying and I know binge drinking is bad, but because I drink, I like I like the effects of alcohol. I don't like the after effects, but I enjoy socialising with friends and getting a little bit merry and I'll do that every so often. But then I'll have like, let's say six or seven drinks and I'm like, I am never drinking again.

So that's kind of how my, that's how it rolls. Sounds familiar. Now finally, Vogue, you grill other celebrities on their most embarrassing moment on your podcast. What is your ultimate, I want the ground to swallow me up moment been? God, there's so many. I feel like I was outside tea school and there's a security guy, I suppose he is, and he works in the school and he was like I was listening to your podcast and I was like

oh I was like which one and he was like my therapist ghosted me and I was like oh gosh it's like the things that I say on that like I just I think I'm more or less an open book but the whole thing with Never Live a Down Pod is because I think people like it's less about feeling

embarrassed about what you've done and it's kind of then you're owning it so you're like by owning it you're less embarrassed and like let's be honest we do embarrassing stuff all the time and uh and i think it's like you're it's less shameful than it is when you're like when you do something really embarrassing when you're 16 17 you feel like you're gonna die it's so bad and actually when you think about it like when you do something now it's like oh god oh well i've just waved at somebody who I thought was somebody else and they didn't wave back and you're like I've done that to famous people I hate that yeah I've done that that's the thing who who have you done it to go on folk who have you waved I have a real random one that I did it to I was in

Zara and this is back when Peter Andre and his wife had a reality show together and I'd been watching it and I saw her in Zara and I was literally like furiously waiting and then I was like oh god I don't know her I did I did it on Sharon Horgan at the BAFTAs because I love her so much and I was like and then I was like oh up, folks. Stop. It's too late. I get really shy around really famous people that I really admire. And I'd actually rather not be in their company or like have to talk to them because I get to like Graham Norton or something like that. I'm like, oh God, what am I going to say to Graham Norton?

Please marry me and be my best friend forever. I think we'd all say that to Graham yeah yeah yeah he's amazing Vogue thank you so much this has been the most fun thank you so much and it has been our pleasure to have you on the podcast

thanks for having me I loved it don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels Instagram, Facebook, TikTok just type in netmoms and you'll find us don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels instagram facebook tiktok just type in netmoms and you'll find us and if you liked what you've heard today we'd love for you to give us a five-star rating press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials