The Netmums Podcast - S16 Ep11: Pizza Nights, Policy & Parenthood – Sir Keir Starmer talks to Netmums

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

In this exclusive episode of the Netmums Podcast, we’re invited inside 10 Downing Street for a rare, one-to-one interview with Prime Minister Keir Starmer — and we’re talking about more than politics. From free childcare for babies from nine months to plans for paternity leave reform, Keir opens up about the big policy changes aimed at supporting UK parents and working families. But he also gets personal, sharing what it’s really like raising teenagers while running the country, how his family tackles Friday night takeaway decisions, and why changing nappies and flexible working matter just as much as parliamentary bills. Expect honest reflections on fatherhood, candid advice for mums and dads, and a powerful reminder that there’s no one right way to parent. This is an absolute must-listen! 

Good afternoon, Prime Minister. Afternoon. Thank you for allowing time with us with NetMoms today. Not at all, I'm really pleased to do it, thank you. It's an absolute pleasure. If you don't mind, I know you're a busy man and time's tight, I'm going to cut to the chase and get to some important topics that matter to our parent audience and then we can discuss some dad chat and parenting later, if that's all right.

So childcare, I'm going to start with that because it's a big E for our parents. Yeah, so childcare, firstly, why it matters. It allows children to get care earlier on and to be in a supervised setting, which is really good for their development, particularly at the nursery stage, I think from nine months onward, going into particularly school-based nurseries, which are what we're really rolling out today. I'm really pleased about this because it's an environment that is child-friendly. It's somewhere where parents can take the younger child

if the older child's already in school, and it allows young children to be with other children who are likely to go into the school beginning with them and therefore to familiarise themselves. So all really good. We're rolling that out today. I'm a big fan of them. I just think they're a fantastic idea.

And of course, it allows parents and carers, not only women but predominantly women, to get back, if they want want to to the work environment which financially helps them, helps the economy more generally by the way, but also on career progression is really important. So for all those reasons I am really pleased that we are rolling this out today and as a school-based nursery, it's one of those things when we sort of came up with this plan I just, why didn't anybody do this earlier? Do this earlier. So I'm really pleased that we're doing that.

But it's what we're doing, but it's why we're doing it. And sometimes you hear these stories about children not being ready to learn when they get to school. They're really troubling. Or the massive disparity between some children who are clearly pretty well ready to learn when they're four or five, other children nowhere near ready to learn. So it really helps with that gap. But doing it in the same place as others, and we had two children, they were two and a half years apart, that's not an unusual story. By the time child

one is in school, to have a school-based nursery where you can then put your second child in the same place, in the same school, in the same environment is really good. And as you mentioned just then, school readiness is so vital for families now. You know, we're seeing lots of stats and data about some children not even potty trained before they start school. Parents are needing all the help they can get. So those spaces for nine months onwards are very supportive of it. I think it's really important. And I've seen these examples of the disparity.

It's not just that some children arriving at school, not potty trained, for example. That's the example that's very often given is a really troubling one. But it makes it harder for them to catch up. And there's a huge disparity already. So by the time you start at age four or five, there's a massive gap between. So I'm really pleased that this helps fill that gap in. And the benefit to the parent or carer is really important as well. But also it's a statement of intent. We've been in now for just about a year in government. Had to do some tough stuff financially in the budget last year,

tough stuff but right stuff. But that's given us a platform on which we can build and to be able to say this is one of the most important things we want to do first, I think sends a message I hope to parents and carers that we want to prioritise your child and the chances of every child to go as far as their talent will take them, whatever they're good at, let them go as far as they can and give them the best chance, but also to parents and carers to be able to get back into the workforce if that's what they want to do, because financially that makes such a difference, particularly for women. And there's a second phase in the plans come autumn, is that right?

Yeah, the second phase is then free childcare, which is rolled out more generally. That completes the gap so that from nine months through to school there's free childcare. Again, hugely important. And I've looked at the parents, the number of parents who will now have a childcare place and the fact that 93% of them are going to get the place of their choice. I don't want to just throw statistics out but it is quite important because parents will say well yes I want the free childcare but if it's a long way away or it's not the environment I wanted it to be then that can be a problem. So the vast, vast majority getting the place that they wanted.

So that, again, is really, really important. Absolutely. So you mentioned the free hours of childcare, the introduction of the 30 hours free childcare per week, which is currently offered to the three year old and four year olds, isn't it? But from September, from nine months to two years. So nine months to two. So then that completes the whole sort of preschool period. Yes, but many working parents still struggle significantly with wraparound care and school holiday child care. What are your plans to address that critical gap?

Well let's take them separately because it is a problem. Wrap around, we already started rolling out breakfast clubs. These are preschool breakfast clubs. They have a dual purpose really. One is to make sure that children don't start school hungry and too many do. So it gives them a healthy, nutritious meal for breakfast at the start of the day, really good. Obviously, it's a period during which they're mixing with other children and therefore it's good for their development.

But for parents and carers, it means they could be dropped off early and so you get the whole wraparound. You don't have to wait till the formal start of the school day, which just makes a lot easier in the mornings. I know this, I mean, our kids are, well, 17 today is our boy,

but, and 14 is our little girl but I remember when they were that age being able to drop them and then be able to get on with work made a huge difference. School holidays different proposition because obviously schools predominantly shut obviously they do run holiday activities but we're putting a lot of money into club based activities in the school holidays. Again, help for parents and carers but also really important for children to have fun but develop during that holiday period. Yeah I guess it's for those working parents of children of nine months or one those clubs aren't quite gonna work are they? No and so some of the nurseries will obviously accommodate that but for the slightly older children it is really good that they've got activities and I remember with our children you know particularly the summer holiday

it's quite a long period. It's a very long time. We'll celebrate on the last day of term in July but by the time September's come around it feels like quite a long period and to have had that activity well they can go off to what they want have fun and get the balance right makes a huge difference so both the preschool stuff during the school term plus the holiday stuff I think does make a material difference. And there is the tax-free child care on offer as well for some of those clubs isn't it? Yeah and? Yeah, and so I think if you put the package together, you've got breakfast clubs, free breakfast clubs, free school meals have been rolled out to everybody in universal credit, that's been hugely welcome and is the example I often give when people say what's the difference

it make having a Labour government, I said rolling out free school meals in a way that's never been done in this country before, hugely important. Now what we're able to do with childcare, making it schools based. There is another provision which I don't think we quite talk about enough, which is the limits we've put on the cost of school uniform. Yes. Which again makes a huge difference, sort of branded expensive school uniforms, particularly if you've got two or three children or four children, really expensive. And so limiting that as a package, you can see the focus we've got, which is on working families and on children. And politics is often about who do you have in your mind's eye when you make decisions. Having in my mind's eye the parents and carers whose lives will be changed by

this but also the children because I'm still shocked that the income or wealth of the parents still has a huge influence on where a child ends up in life. It should just be their talent and their own abilities that get them as far as they can possibly get. Whatever that is, we've got no prescription on what a child should do. And we're the same with our children. We want them to be happy and confident. That's the only two rules in our household for our children. But for that you've got to be secure, you can have opportunity in Yiddish. I don't know, a base camp if you like, that is safe, secure, and gives you the opportunity. And this is all really designed as a package to put that best start in life, to take it from a slogan, you know, which it is, and a good slogan too, into practice.

What does that look like then in my life, in my is, and a good slogan too, into practice. What does that look like then in my life, in my school, in my environment? I think the cap on uniform has been a welcome adjustment for our parent community. I think next on the list is school trips, the cost of school trips. That sets our community alight, I tell you. Because everyone wants their kid to have school trips, but actually parents face some compromises to afford some of those school trips. Yeah, they are expensive

and we need to have a look at what can be done. But I'm really pleased that within the first year we put this package together because it makes a material difference and answers that question, what difference does the Labour government make? Well, this is the difference in legs. I know everything can't come at once, but I'm just putting on your radar. Netmums highlights

the high dropout rate of mums returning to work. What concrete policy changes will your government implement to retain mothers in the workforce? Well, firstly, I do think that the free childcare will make a difference because it makes it easier for mums to get back to work sooner and that always helps and it closes that what can be a gap in employment that can then be an inhibitor for a very very long time. On top of that we've got an employment rights bill that's going through parliament. That will give better protection for mums returning to work. So I think there is a package

there. The most important thing is for mums to be able to get back into work. I say if that's what they want to do, not everybody will want to do that. They may not want to do it full time, may want to juggle it with other things, but to make it easier to get back into work, which we've got a cost of living crisis. Living standards haven't gone up materially for 14 or 15 years for many, many families. And therefore being able to get back to a decent income does make a difference. Yeah. I think it's when I read that families, working families, those are often the families that face

child poverty as well when there's an adult working in the household and that does feel quite shameful in our society right now. Yes it is and that's why even before we started rolling out the childcare provisions we'd already increased the minimum wage for the three million lowest paid in this country. That's on average about £1400 increase per year for those three million. And it's really important because they are the three million lowest paid. And if they're in work, their entitles will be paid properly for what they're doing. So I was really proud that we were able to do that very, very early on in this government.

Going back to what you were talking about, having women back in the workforce, mothers back in the workforce, flexible working was a lifeline during the pandemic for a lot of us, but many companies are now pushing for a return back to the office. How will your government embed flexible working as a cultural norm in our society and not just a policy? Well the approach we've taken is to say that there ought to be a right to request flexible working and then it's for the employer to say why that can't work, why it can't be accommodated. And actually even that cultural change makes a difference. That's not about the enforcement particularly of rights, it's just about the culture which is why is it that there can't be a flexible working arrangement here. It does matter to a lot of parents and carers, mums in particular. So I do think there's

a cultural change that we need to bring about there. I think just by slightly changing the emphasis to say to an employer, well, you know, there will be times when it's not possible for an employer to give flexible working. There are examples of that which are obvious. But on the other hand, by saying to the employer, well, you really need to justify if you're not going to do flexible working. It just forces them to think, you know what, why can't we do that? Why can't we be more accommodating?

What grounds would we really put forward? Rather than simply saying, we're not gonna let it happen. So it just tilts it, because cultural change is always much harder. Policy change and legal change is a question of putting legislation through parliament. Cultural change is always harder. Changing that mindset.

Yeah, what's the mindset? Why can't we make this work? Out of curiosity, what's the flexible working reality at number 10? We have flexible working. So I've got members of staff who've got young children that have asked for and been given flexible working, which gives them a better balance in their lives as they want to get the proportions between working and family life right. So we don't just say it, between working and family life. Right, so we don't just say it, we're doing it in number 10. That is good to hear. With one in five Netmums users now being dads, how will you support fathers

in taking on more active roles in childcare and co-parenting at home and what role do you think dads should play and how will you reform the current two-week paternity leave and pay? and how will you reform the current two-week paternity leave and pay? We are looking at parental leave, there will be a consultation on this, and obviously that'll allow us to look at paternal leave. I'm a big advocate of it, I was luckily between jobs when I first tried this for 17 years lucky. This was 17 years ago. But two weeks. It makes a huge difference.

Do you think two weeks is fair? Well, look, I mean, the thing has to be balanced with what we can afford. And obviously in one sense, you'd want fathers to spend as much time as possible with their children, but we've got to get the balance right. We are going to do a consultation on whether there's a different way of doing the balance but

it is hugely important because I think fathers and children benefit from spending more time together particularly in those early ages. Yeah absolutely. So when you stepped up to Prime Minister in your early days you were very clear that you wanted to ring-fence your Friday nights as family time. Yes. I'm very interested to know whether you've kept that promise with your family but also I want to know what you get up to on that Friday night dinner. Are you cooking? Is Victoria cooking? Are the kids cooking? Firstly I've not kept, we've not managed to keep to it in the way that I wanted to

me, things have gone in the way but the concept is a good one and we still do other things but we do protect the children. We don't name them in public. We don't do any photos with them in public. And the flat we live in at Downing Street is their home, so I don't do any work-based functions there. Friday though, we do still, whenever we can, it's just the four of us. It is always take away night so nobody is cooking. Deliveroo! There's an art getting Deliveroo into Downing Street but we've mastered it but so you know half the evening is spent arguing about what takeaway we're going to get. What's your favourite?

Well my favourite is the least important thing in the household because we're always going to go with the kids. At the moment there's a sort of pizza favourite coming in from our summer, which is always quite easy on a Friday night. But it is an opportunity to sit as a family and just the four of us and make sure we've got that time. There are other things during the week that I do to make sure I'm still spending time with my family because I don't want to be one of those dads and it usually is dads who in years, few years time say I wish I'd spent more time with the kids. Yes, there's constraints. Yes, I'm busy. Other people are busy. But if you want to spend more time with your kids, spend more time

with your kids. Make sure you do. And so I sort of carve out different bits of the week to make sure I am spending time with my kids and make sure that the front door to our flat is the front door to our home and as soon as I cross that door I leave the Prime Minister box outside the door, I pick up the dad box when I get inside the front door and I'm dad to our kids. And just reflecting on parenthood as a father of two, what was the most unexpected experience you had as a dad of children in those early years? And what was the most treasured moment you've had? Well, the answer to the first question is sleep deprivation. I'd like to think that. Unexpected. Well, just the impact it had. I've always liked to think I've worked pretty hard in my life, but there was nothing as hard as children not sleeping through the night, night after night after night after night. I've been there. I've never been that time.

It is gruelling. In any job I've ever done. So it's really, really gruelling. The most treasured is, I think that, as I was saying a moment ago, as it happened when our son was born, I was between jobs and it was the summer and therefore I was able to spend quite a lot of time with him. And I tried to carve out not as much time, but time when our daughter was born. I think those moments early in their lives I feel have created a strong bond now you know who knows whether that's right but I certainly feel that I treasure having had that time sort of in their very early lives immediately after they were born. Did you change nappies and skin on skin? I changed nappies, we shared that activity and I have to say we had a bottle of champagne when the last nappy of the second child was done.

And we vowed at that point on no more nappy changing. But yeah, we shared that. Everybody should share it. Absolutely. You're not a parent unless you've not changed your nappy. I do tease my 17 year old boy now by the fact fact that I've changed his mapping back in the day. And one last question. If you could change one thing for UK families tomorrow,

not as Prime Minister, but as a parent, what would it be? It's quite a tricky one. I think I would change the sense that too many parents have in my view, that you've got to conform to a particular way of bringing your child up, that by this age they should be doing this, by that age they should be doing that. I don't think you should ignore all that because it is important that children develop properly etc. But I think too many parents get a particularly

early on get a bit worried that they're not doing it properly. They're not a good parent, that there's some expectation that they're not meeting. Actually, and we learned this by the time we had a second child, you can relax a bit and get rid of the conformity. And being a good parent is as much about being calm, creating an environment for them as anything else. So I would just say too many parents I think possibly spend too much time worrying about you know are we in the right place, are we doing this properly, would somebody else do it in other ways? We just need to relax away from that. Certainly our experience was first time round we had a bit of that, second time around we'd relaxed because we could see

it wasn't quite like that in practice. So if I could change one thing, it'd be, you know, you can be a good parent in many, many different ways, depending on yourself, your partner, your family, your children. There is no single one best way to bring up a child. Absolutely, I think there's lots of stresses and challenges in modern parenting life, but we always say at NetMums to find those moments of joy and pleasure amongst all of that is paramount. It's hard sometimes.

It's fantastic. I mean, it's the single best thing that Vic and I ever did. It's changed my life more than anything I've ever done. The moment our son was born, a very dear friend of ours just quietly dropped a note, a very dear friend of ours just quietly dropped a note, a card through the door from Ian Vick and it had written in it and in that moment everything changed and it captured every single day since. That's lovely. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.