The Netmums Podcast - S16 Ep7: Crumbs in Bed & Climbing Trees: Steve Backshall’s Wild Take on Fatherhood

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, Wendy and Alison are joined by naturalist, adventurer, TV presenter, and dad-of-three Steve Backshall. Best known for Deadly 60 and his breathtaking wildlife expeditions, Steve chats candidly about the chaos, comedy, and deep joy of parenting alongside his wife, Olympic rower Helen Glover. From breakfast-in-bed fails to scaling oak trees with his kids, Steve brings his trademark humour and heartfelt honesty to a wide-ranging conversation about fatherhood, family life, and his latest adventure into the world of podcasting. The conversation covers: The Everyday Wildness of Parenthood: Why tying shoelaces, meltdowns in public, and parenting “feral” children are his new extreme challenges. Finding Balance with Helen Glover: How he and Helen juggle Olympic-level careers, school runs, and quality family time (spoiler: not perfectly). Father’s Day Real Talk: Why he dreads breakfast in bed and what a "wholesome" Sunday looks like in the Backshall household. Parenting in the Public Eye: Navigating toddler tantrums when everyone’s watching—and yes, everyone is watching. Nature as a Reset Button: Steve’s powerful belief in the mental health benefits of the outdoors, and how a walk by the river can fix almost anything. Letting Kids Be Who They Are: The importance of not pushing children into your own passions—even if you really want them to love sharks. Big New Adventures: Steve’s exciting move into podcasting (That’s Just Wild) and his upcoming arena tour, Deadly Live, complete with dinosaurs, stunts, and stage science. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting stories, laughs, and real-life insights:  Website: netmums.com Instagram: @netmums 🎧 Produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollich, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show… So it's Father's Day this weekend. What will that look like in your household? I mean, to be honest, it's not going to make any difference. They will not have remembered. Breakfast in bed! I hate breakfast in bed. It just means crumbs. Not going to happen. It's not going to happen. No. They couldn't make breakfast out of bed, let alone in bed it just means crumbs. Not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. No. They couldn't make breakfast out of bed let alone in bed. Welcome back everyone to a brand new episode. Wendy, how are you doing this week? Oh I've just got back from holiday and I forget every time I

get back from holiday how hard it is to get back from holiday. The kind of getting back into routine it is to get back from holiday, the kind of getting back into routine, I would like to be on a Greek beach and I'm not and the kids would like to be on a Greek beach and they're in a maths test and it's all a bit much getting everyone back into routine isn't it? It is but you know what I always forget because I've just come back from holiday as well and I always forget that it's the when you go on holiday, especially when you're quite younger kids, I think our guest today might appreciate this. Well actually maybe not because anyway, anyway, I don't want to give too much away. But I feel like I always forget that when you're on holiday, it's the same old crap,

different location. You still got to parent, we were in a self-catering, so we still had to do all the meal prep and it was just like, when's our holiday starting? So I would take a Greek beach over that any day Wendy. Well let's see because our guest today does quite a lot of traveling with his kids. Well we are joined today by Steve Batchel, naturalist, adventure author, TV presenter and dad of three. Steve is best known for his work on CBBC's Deadly 60 and Deadly Mission Shark as well as his breathtaking expedition series. He's also

the host of a brand new podcast, That's Just Wild, where he talks about some of the most jaw-dropping animal stories on the planet. When he's not doing all of that he's at home with his wife Olympic roer Helen Glover, and their three young kids, and somehow managing to fit in wild camping trips, school runs, and everything in between. We are thrilled to welcome him back to the Netmummers podcast. Steve, hello, how are you doing? Hello, you both. Yeah, I'm doing very, very well. Although properly jaded.aded I mean you're talking about like holiday hangovers I am in exactly the same situation I couldn't agree more about the whole thing of yes you're in a beautiful

new location it's fabulous but you still have to get them to get their trainers on somehow I'm still with you oh oh in my nine year old's case, any clothes at all, seemingly, when you're anywhere warm, you just see just the thing. And I was like, yeah, but you can't go to a taverna in nothing. It's not cool. Do you know what? The trainers thing, Steve, really speaks to me. I've got six year old twins and they're at the stage where they've got laced up trainers

for the first time and they're trying so hard to learn to tie their laces but they just can't do it and it is making putting their trainers on so stressful! Anyway, anyway. Yeah, ours is six and five and I would say we're probably a good decade away from being able to tie shoelaces. One day. And that's and that's me I'm talking about. So it's been a little while since we spoke in 2023. Has the chaos of three very small people settled down a bit or has it just got worse? It's a different flavour of chaos. There is, we now have three independent little humans, all of whom are developing very defined personalities. And considering, I think that one of the most intriguing things really is that the twins,

we have a boy and girl twin, they were born just pre-pandemic. They had their early life through that whole period where they didn't have a huge amount of socializing with other kids. And yet they are chalk and cheese. They are so different in every element of their personalities. They're very close but yet they are completely independent and they're five. You know they're teeny tiny little humans and they've already got these big characters, these big personalities that are totally unique and it kind of seems like you know whatever Helen and I do it's kind of irrelevant really. They're just just it's all there already. You're just bystanders basically.

Yeah. I'm guessing that they started, your smaller one started school back in September. So has that made things a bit easier? I'm guessing it has. Well, so I think that it's made things easier for Helen because, you know, she's got a big period of time during the day in school time when she can train and do all the things she needs to do. It goes so quickly like you drop them off and before you know it it's time to pick them up again. Boom! Then can you miss it? Oh look it's 1 to 3, better go!

Yeah I mean that's what I'm on today I'm looking at the clock going you know this is supposed to be my day off and I've got like half an hour left and I've been on calls all day long. I've got half an hour until I've got to go on the school run. And but yeah, it's, it's different, I think, for me, because I'm going through a period of time where I'm trying to work really intently in blocks to leave big portions of time where I can be properly at home, properly be a dad. of time where I can be properly at home, properly be a dad. And so I kind of am not really noticing it so much. You know, it doesn't have as big an impact on me as it is on Hellz, who is in a routine now where, you know, she'll do the drop-off in the morning, she'll go and train three times to an Olympic athlete's schedule and then go and do pick-up in the afternoon. But she doesn't have to think about what she's going to do with the twins during the day,

because they're at school. So it's, I think it's easier. I say that, she's upstairs right now, she might well be listening to- She might storm down and argue in a minute. If an object comes flying from up there and hits me on the head, then you'll know that she doesn't agree with me.

Well, when we last spoke, Helen was deep in training for the Paris Olympics and you were on full-time dad's duty. So by the sounds of it, she's still training pretty hard. Has that family life dynamic shifted again? Or are you, but it sounds like you're both still working pretty hard. We are, but I think that we've slipped into a really nice place at the moment

where we're still making huge amounts of time for family and we're making sure that we really, really make the most of it. So over this last half term holiday, I was down at Longleat doing shows of kind of residency at Longleat and the whole family came and stayed down there in a little cottage in the middle of the gorgeous Longleat grounds. And so, you know, first thing in the morning, we're all together, we're going on big nature walks through Longleat and you're looking at the blue tits and the woodpeckers and then a lion roars off in the distance. I mean, it's just epic. But we were together and having really

proper quality family time while I was working. And now over the next couple of weeks, Helen's got lots of work where she's going off and she's doing big appearances and public speaking and all those kinds of things. And I'm here being able to take on that part of the job. And we've still got our weekends where we're off doing great stuff, where she's going down and doing a beach sprints,

national championships, and I'm there digging holes on the beach with the kids. So it's really nice and because I packed in lots and lots of work over the summer I am just off. Oh you lucky bugger. I'm just off to have a proper summer. That's every parents dream to have the summer holiday juggle taken away. It is but um if you saw what my work schedule would have been like for the last four or five months But if you saw what my work schedule would be like for the last four or five months, you probably wouldn't say that. But the joy of, because I know everyone says it and it's the ultimate cliche, but it's utterly true that this time passes in the blink of an eye. Two twins at five, Logan at six coming up seven.

There are not going to be many more years left that they treasure us like they do right now and I am going to look back on this time in 10 years, 20 years time with such nostalgia and fondness and I want to make sure that I'm not wasting it. So yeah, having a big summer where we're out doing, we're not going to go overseas, we're going to do everything here in this country and we're going to have little mini micro adventures every day and it's gonna be awesome. You talking about Longleat just took me back to my misspent youth Steve because I grew up very close to Longleat and Longleat used to have a nightclub on it. I heard this for the first time.

Yes, yeah. I used to go to Oscars 2000 and you saying oh oh, you know, you hear the blue tits, you hear the lions. We'd leave the club at four and you'd hear the lions and Lord Bath would be maraudering around the ground. It's so weird. Every time I go to Longleat now as a mum with the kids, I'm like, yeah, I was sick over there and yeah, it's not quite the same anymore.

Oh my goodness. Oh, we're seeing the real Wendy now, aren't we? I was like 18. Now, onto something slightly nicer. What was it like, Steve, to see Helen receive her OBE at Windsor Castle recently? Was it like the ultimate proud husband moment? Or actually, do you feel like it pales in comparison to the Olympic medals? I... no, I don't actually. I think it was a really, really special day.

So when Helen said, I think we should take the kids, take all three kids, I honestly looked at her and went, you're mental. Why would we do that? You're seriously suggesting that we take our three feral children into Windsor Castle and have Prince William like, I mean, to me that was just a crazy idea, but she was so right. I mean, it just, imagine it, just imagine it being five years old, six and seven years old, being taken to this ancient historical seat of power, even just to have gone there on a tour

would have blown their tiny minds, but they're going there with their mum who is receiving this massive honor from the person who is going to be king of our country. And not only that, but when it happened, there was this beautiful, beautiful moment. We've, this is going to sound like a massive clang name drop, but we've, we've met Prince William a fair few times before, and Helen spent quite a lot of

time with him before, and they have quite a lot in common, quite a lot of things that they can talk about. And as he handed over the OBE, and as he was talking to Helen about what a special thing she'd done, the four of us, me and the three kids, were on the red carpet, meters away, and he turned around and gave them all a little wave. This is the prince, the prince giving the kids like, hey, hello, you all.

And they all waved back. And it's just one of those little snapshots in time that we will look back on in 30 years time and just not believe it was possible. And because it was there and it was for all of us and it was celebrating Mummy and all that she's done, it was one of the most perfect special days that I have ever had. So it's Father's Day this weekend. What will that look like in your household? I mean, to be honest, it's not going to make any difference. They will not have remembered.

Breakfast in bed! I hate breakfast in bed. I mean, to be honest, it's not gonna make any difference. They will not have remembered. I mean, there's... Shh. There's no way. Breakfast in bed. I hate breakfast in bed. It just means crumbs. Not gonna happen. No.

It's not gonna happen. No. They couldn't make breakfast out of bed, let alone in bed. No, no chance. Even with Helen's help, surely they'll have a little treat for you. It would be worse.

Trust me. No, that's just not a chance. Should we shout up the stairs at Helen and tell her, Helen, it's Father's Day! I think, you know, it's going to be a weekend presumably, it'll be a Saturday or Sunday. It's always a Sunday. Always a Sunday, of course it is. I mean, yeah, you can tell what a massive impact

all of the previous Father's days have had on me. It's gonna you know our Sundays are well depending on who you are listening to this you'll either think they are a slice of nostalgic magic or you'll think that we are repulsive smug tween human beings but it's gonna it's gonna involve walks in the countryside going going to our bees, collecting honey from our bees and spreading it onto our own freshly buttered toast. We're gonna be making fires, having barbecues, climbing trees, making fires. I mean, making like a campfire,

not actually setting lights and stuff, that sounds wrong. But we do have, a good Sunday for us is the most wholesome family experience you could ever wish to have Outside come some kind of a Hallmark movie sounds idyllic. It honestly does I do think though that Father's Day is a really nice time just to reflect How do you think that fatherhood has changed you? Oh That's that's the big question. And it is, it's the most decisive change in my life by so many miles. And I thought that I kind

of knew what was coming, thought that it was going to be a big moment in life, but I had no idea quite how much. And actually, you know, I'd had quite a lot of friends who'd had kids before me, and they'd talked with a slight sense of disappointment that they'd expected more from it, that it hadn't been as big an impact to them as they'd thought it would be. And that wasn't me at all. I had the thunderbolt. The second we had our first kid, my life suddenly had the meaning I'd always sought for. All of the things that I felt I'd spent 40 years of my life searching

for were just suddenly there. That was it. That's why I'm here. That's why we're here. I mean, it sounds like such a trite thing to say, but, you know, I'm a biologist. I believe in the selfish gene. I believe in the fact that, you know, one of the main reasons that, you know, creatures are here on this planet is reproduction and passing on our genes. And somewhere in the back of our reptilian brain,

that is there as our meaning of life, And it was certainly my meaning of life. And it just, in the blink of an eye, everything I did had purpose. Everything I did was for a reason. I had found the meaning of life. And at the same time, a whole host of anxieties and stresses and responsibilities that I'd never had before. And so everything changed in that it had a purpose

and a meaning, but at the same time, everything became so much harder. But there was a reason for it all. And you know, fatherhood is now everything to me. Yeah, that's really incredible. Now you've said before that your eldest is really getting into wildlife and you've already spoken about going on mini adventures with them. What so far has been like your favourite

ultimate or have you had any disasters where things have gone horribly wrong during a wild camping session? We have more disasters than I could ever begin to explain to you. I mean yeah yeah, no, one of those, I mean, just like a couple of weeks ago, I decided that I'm a qualified tree climber. So I have my qualifications for climbing trees, which we use for, you know, ascending up into the rainforest canopy, if we're going to put up platforms to film Harpy Eagles or whatever. So I decided we've got an amazing, huge oak tree nearby to us. So I strung ropes up into the tree, put our kids in harnesses and had them climbing up like 15, 20 meters up

into this glorious oak tree. And it was astounding right up until the second that one of our children, I won't name them, decided that they didn't like it. And they were then 10 meters up a great big oak tree, no way of getting them down, screaming, crying, me feeling like the worst father ever. And that's just one of a million such things that have gone wrong with us. Flip side of that would be that a couple of weeks later, we were down in Cornwall where Helen's family live

and I took my five-year-old sea cliff climbing and he's a teeny wee strap of a lad and he climbed up this gorgeous vertical cliff face with the waves crashing below him and fulmers and kitty wakes circling around overhead and his pride, the glow in his eyes, the excitement of having done this thing and conquered all of his fears was a moment of pure ecstasy that I would just love to be able to bottle. So you're well known for inspiring our kids on TV and now on your podcast, but if your kids don't kind of, I'm guessing they will probably follow your love of nature in some way because they're so immersed in it all the time.

But how will you handle that if there's a kind of like, I don't like sharks. Don't want to go anywhere near sharks. Yeah, it's something that Helen and I have talked about from the start because I think in some ways it's almost inevitable that they probably won't follow in our footsteps. I'd be very surprised if any of them were to become athletes of any kind. And, you know, some degree that has to be that, you know, what Helen has done and achieved is so intimidating and seems so out there that I think it'll be quite hard for our kids to follow that. You know it's almost too much to aim for. I'm also very aware that...

It's a very big ask. Follow in mummy's footsteps. It's a massive. How could they ever? You know there have been very very few Helen Glovers in history so you know the chances of us having one out of our three little lenses are slim. I think also I'm very, very aware, because I do still do a lot of work with kids and have done for the over the last 27 years of working in television. And one thing that I'm very aware of is that you cannot tell kids what to love, that they will find their own way into it. And if you are to push and pressure young people into anything, then almost certainly it's going to be the one

thing that they decide they're going to hate. You know, you have to be careful with it. If they feel for a second that I'm trying to shove nature and adventure down their throats, in all likelihood it will be the thing they decide that they are never gonna touch and likewise with Sport and Helen you know. So we have kind of decided that we will make it as exciting and appealing and appetizing to them as we can and obviously desperately hope that they think that that might be their thing but we can't force it on them and if we tried, then I'm sure it would have the opposite effect.

So we'll keep checking in, we'll keep talking about it together all the time. The one thing at the moment is that all three of them have in wildlife, in nature, in being outside something that really makes them happy, something that can send them out for a really good worthwhile uplifting happy day out, bring them back at the end of the day tired and hungry and you know at this stage what more can a parent ask? Yeah, now a lot of parents, probably a lot of parents listening, will feel a little bit like they get stuck indoors with young kids, especially when the weather turns. Even this time of year you can get a really bad rainy day do you have any good tips for getting them out into nature perhaps ones that

don't require stringing ropes 10 meters up an oak tree? Get a really good coat. I mean it it sounds it sounds bonkers. My nan used to say there's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing. Old fashioned, thick waterproofs. Don't be messing around with like modern lightweight Gore-Tex or any of that nonsense. Get something that'll properly keep the rain off, properly keep the wind off and your kids will endure way worse than you will.

Just make sure that they don't get cold and they don't get hungry. And the longer you can stave that off, you can keep kids outside all day long. And they will spend all day in the rain in horrible conditions, as long as you keep them happy, keep them entertained, keep them well-fed and don't let them get cold. With whippersnappers because they've got no fat on them, the second they get cold they're not warming up again and your day's done so you've got to make sure that doesn't happen. So get that good outer layer sorted. Everything else you know you can layer underneath it, you can put on pretty much anything, you can dress them in stuff from

charity shops or from cheap clothing manufacturers. It doesn't matter because it's all about the layering. The outer layer is the one thing that does matter. It doesn't have to be expensive, but it has to be properly waterproof and windproof. If you get that right, then everything else will slot into place. I might take this advice for dog walks in February. I was thinking for me I might take that advice for me. So we've talked lots about the fact that you've done loads of kids telly but your new adventure is podcast that's just wild. So what drew you from telly to audio? I've wanted to do a podcast for a long time and the reason is very much what we're doing now, which is something that really doesn't happen in television.

If we were having this conversation on Loose Women, then we would have three and a half minutes and before you and I had even really talked about holidays, someone would be looking at their watch and going, come on wrap it up, time to move on now. We have to be so concise, we have to be so, you know, reductive about everything we say. We have to talk in soundbites, we have to get straight to the point and then, you know, move on to the next thing. And that's not how people think and it's not how I talk.

I have so many things that I'm passionate about that I want to share. And my two co-hosts, likewise, I'm doing this with Lizzie Daly, Sarah Roberts. They're both very accomplished scientists. They've done so many incredible things. We could sit and talk for an hour and a half about botflies. We could sit and talk for an hour and a half about the defensive mechanisms of the bigfin squid. And it would still be interesting to some people, but that's all right. It doesn't have to be interesting to everyone.

With podcasts, you have a set group of people who deliberately have tuned in because they want to listen into your pub fireside chat. And the ability that we have as three proper nerds to just sit down and yabber and talk nonsense about nature is what we all three of us have been wanting to do. And you know, this side of things, I mean, I don't know, obviously you guys have been doing this for a lot longer than I have. I don't know if you agree with this, but to me as someone who's worked in television for

27 years, it's a bleak place that we're in in the television landscape right now. Everybody who's working in television is just like, you know, the end is nigh. This medium is dying. We don't see a future in it. Every event you do that's to do with television, people are just like down in the dumps. And then you do something to do with podcasts and people are just like down in the dumps. And then you do something to do with podcasts. And it's like, we've discovered the promised land. It's like the gold rush days and everyone's excited and everyone has belief and hope and passion. And it kind of feels like a, like a, a section of the industry that is just

booming and booming. And it's been so infectious to be a part of, even now as a fledgling podcaster myself. Well, you're doing brilliantly at it. And something else that you have done in the past, you and Helen co-wrote the book Wildlings together, didn't you, a few years ago? We did, yes.

Have you guys got any more plans to do projects together, especially now that her schedule has calmed down a little bit? I think what we would both love to do would be to do some kind of big project together as a family. I think we want to have that quality time that we can spend together. And, you know, frankly, while I may well be taking this summer off, it's not something that you can really in good conscience do for longer than about six weeks. It's, you know, something I need to work, I need to be able to pay the bills and the mortgage, right? And I think that if we could find a way that we could

do something together that encompasses all of the things we do that involves the family that was an uplifting and positive experience for them too. That would be our big end game. That's the thing that we would love to do most. And I think that Helen and I working together has gone well in the past. You know, we've done a few smaller things together. They've always been really, really fun. She's an amazing broadcaster, she's a cracking storyteller as well as an athlete. So I think, I just really hope we can find the right project to do together. I think you should do adventure retreats. I think you need to get some sort of little bit of land in Wales and do sports slash adventure retreats where you

get families along and do your crazy... String them up a tree? String them up 10 meters up an oak tree. That doesn't mean that we'd have to interact with other people's kids though, does it? Oh yeah, sorry, probably. Oh god no. No, you don't want to do that. So how do you and Helen manage to carve out any space for the two of you? Because tag team parenting is fearsome, as we all know, and it sounds like you guys have got a lot on. We don't, we don't really, but I think that, you know, I know, but I mean, I don't really know many parents who are at the stage that we're at who do. And I don't know how that could happen.

Grandparents is pretty much the only way. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, we get our time together when we're with the kids, when it's the five of us. And I'm sure that that will ease as the years go on. But right now, I know full well that if I were to say to Helen that she had a choice of spending time with me or spending time with the kids, what's she going to choose?

I mean, she'll get better conversation, probably better hugs and more fun being with the three kids. So, you know, I haven't really got any choice. Now, you seem like you're someone who's so calm under pressure, but have you ever had a parenting moment where it's completely floored you or taken you by surprise and you felt like maybe I'm not so calm under pressure. I'm pretty sure that every parent of kids our age has experienced the biblical meltdown in public in front of you know shed loads of people where you

feel so exposed and so vulnerable and like everyone is looking at you and without wanting to sound arrogant or big headed, when it's Helen and I, everybody is looking at you. And you know, the meltdowns that are just a part of childhood, it's just something that happens. I mean, not now, obviously, because they're getting bigger and older. But when your two-year-old loses it in the supermarket and you can see people going, hang on, isn't that that Olympic rower? And I've seen it. Is that a telly? Please ground, open up, swallow me whole. Yeah, I mean, there are definitely moments where you kind of feel like,

you know, what we do and the limited public persona that we have has comes with great benefits and we, you know, we don't take those privileges lightly. But it has its flip sides. And I say particularly when, you know particularly when we're down in Cornwall, Helen's royalty in Cornwall. I'm not exaggerating. After the Rio Olympics when she came home with her second gold medal, they had an open top bus parade through Penzance and Newlyn with the mayor on top of the bus with us and the city stopped. The streets were filled with thousands of people out to cheer Helen and the golden girl

home. When we're in Cornwall, there is no place to hide. Everyone knows Helen. Everyone knows who she is. And that's where the kids choose to have the best tantrum, right? Yeah, of course. Of course. And you know, you talk about yours sort of like, you know, charging around naked, you know, when, when hours do as they inevitably will, you just see people going, isn't that? Yeah, it's just, it's just one of those things. Someone once came up to me in a supermarket when my eldest daughter was doing that. And it was the nicest thing. She was a lady who obviously had slightly older children

and she just came up and said, it's okay, we've all been there. Don't worry about it. And I've tried really hard to do that to other people. There was a lady at a bus stop and her child was like face down on the floor doing this. And I think that's the only thing you can do when you see someone else in that situation

and says, okay, they all do it no one's looking no one's judging you yeah yeah it's true what does Steve do when he's at the end of his rope how do you reset do you what do you do you have a tantrum? Do you? And if so, can you get Helen to film it and put it on Instagram? I am very, very lucky in that very early in life, I discovered that there are certain things I can do to reset myself no matter how low I am. And they're all to do with the outdoors and physical activity and things to do with nature. I can take myself for a paddle down the river, looking at kingfishers and great crested grebes and suddenly all is right with the world. And it's a problem because I do realize that I could easily become something of a preacher about this. I could

be someone who, you know, wants to spread the gospel of nature to everyone as like a panacea for all our ills. And the second you do that is the second you become utterly unbearable and nobody listens to a word you say. But I am very, very aware that, you know, from my academic perspective,

that all of the things that we gain from being outside in terms of the release of various hormones within our bodies and the oxygen, the vitamin D from sunlight, all these things have a massive benefit to us above and beyond anything we can quantify. And the amount of people that I know who have managed to ease their way out of serious depression and big issues and problems in their life from something as simple as bird watching or from starting to learn how to run or to jog or from taking up paddling or kayaking or any of these things are vast. We have this huge untapped resource in a nation that has

so many issues and so many problems, so many of which can be addressed through the totally free and universally available outdoors. And I have to try and find ways that I can package that up in morsels that people will appreciate without finding unbearably smug and can gain from it themselves because when you've found something amazing you want to sell it to people but you've got to be aware that you kind of can't. So in amongst all of this outdoor adventuring, what is next for you Steve? The biggest most exciting thing that I have in the calendar is my first arena tour in October.

Terrifying! So I'm taking Deadly live in a massive show which is going to be full of stage science. I've got dinosaurs on stage alongside me, life-sized modern animals, a vast screen, stunts, tricks, bloopers and outtakes and audience interaction. It's gonna be mega. The terrifying thing about it is that it is going big.

And when I say big, I'm talking like 02, Manchester Arena, Birmingham Arena, kind of big, like massive, massive arenas. I'm so excited, but crazy intimidated at the same time. So where can we get tickets for that, Steve? It's on Ticketmaster. It's deadly live, or I'm sure if you look up my name, it'll pop up. And yeah, we're going all over the country. We've got one in Wales, one in Scotland, nothing in Ireland at the moment but we will try and make that happen and then yeah another 12 dates around the country. Amazing, how exciting. A huge thank you for joining us

today, it's been wonderful to catch up with you and hear about how you're getting on. Yeah thank you very much. We'll let you go and do the score one. Always lovely to speak to you guys. Thank you so much. Don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, just type in netmums and you'll find us. And if you liked what you've heard today, we'd love for you to give us a five star rating. Press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials.