The Netmums Podcast - S16 Ep9: Navigating Tween Life, Friendship Wobbles, and the Power of Humour: Katie Kirby on Parenting in the Digital Age

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, author and parenting favourite Katie Kirby returns to chat with Wendy and Alison. Known for the bestselling Lottie Brooks series and Hurrah for Gin, Katie brings her signature honesty and humour to a wide-ranging conversation about the joys and challenges of raising tweens and teens. The conversation covers: Relatable Role Models: Why kids need to see themselves in the books they read — and how Lottie Brooks became that character for so many. Friendship Dynamics: The differences between how boys and girls approach friendships, and why having multiple friend groups can be a lifesaver. The Smartphone Struggle: How tech and social media are reshaping childhood — and what parents can do to help kids navigate it safely and confidently. Real-Life Parenting: From summer holiday chaos to the art of embarrassing your kids (on purpose!), Katie shares her funniest and most heartfelt parenting moments. Open Conversations: Why honest chats with our kids — even the awkward ones — are key to building trust and resilience. Behind the Books: Katie opens up about the origins of Hurrah for Gin, her love of stick figures, and the potential future of Lottie Brooks on screen. Stay connected with Netmums for more parenting stories, support and laughs:  Website: netmums.com / Instagram: @netmums Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollidge, and me, Alison Perry. Coming up on this week's show... Yeah, I think we constantly see what other people are doing and you're constantly thinking, is everyone else happier than me or whatever, so I think... And we do it as adults. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think it's... Yeah.

Kids have got underdeveloped brains. Of course they're going to do it way more than we do. Yeah, definitely. I think I'd have been a mess. definitely I think I'd have been a mess or I think I'd have been arrested well we're recording this on one of those rare rare English summer days where it's scorching and glorious and I'm loving it but I don't know about you Alison but it always makes me remember being pregnant. I was eight months pregnant at this time of year, and I remember lolloping up the hill like a walrus,

trying to get my younger daughter, my older daughter from nursery, we have this big hill up to nursery, and just kind of like getting to the top and just feeling like revolting. So all I can really think about today is anyone who's eight plus months pregnant, and the fact that their ankles are gonna be the size of transit vans that's just gonna be so cross. Do you know what I saw one of the school mums is

pregnant and I saw her this morning at the school gates and I was like oh my goodness well done I was I think I was maybe about seven months pregnant with twins a few years ago and it was a really hot summer and I just sat on the sofa I think I had my my feet in like buckets of icy water and I just stayed there as long as I could it was it was hard. I was sat at my desk with my feet in buckets under my desk in central London it's just not classy being pregnant it's not classy or glamourised. Anyway tell us about our guest today. Our guest today is the wonderful Katie Kirby who rose to fame with her brilliantly funny hurrah for gin

cartoons aimed at very tired parents so we can all relate to those. Katie is now the author of the hugely successful Lottie Brooks series of books and her latest book Lottie Brooks versus the Ultra Mean Girls comes out very soon. Katie, welcome back to the Netmums podcast. Thank you very much, thanks for having me again. Lovely to be back. It's lovely to have you back. Now I know a lot about Lottie Brooks because I have a daughter who's a little bit obsessed with Lottie Brooks in our house. But for anyone who hasn't yet discovered what the Lottie Brooks books are about, can you tell us a little bit about her? Sure, she's, well basically meets Lottie when she's 11 years old and she's just about to

start high school. Her best friend's moved away to Australia and she doesn't really know anybody else who's about to start, so she's basically going in totally alone and she decides that the kind of key to being happy is to be popular and so she tries to like reinvent herself and be like cool and confident and sort of look nicer and wear like cool clothes and make up and stuff like that and we just follow her on our ventures really and she tries to fit in at school and and embarrasses herself in many many different ways. The books are they're amazing we've got we've got all of them I think here and they capture that awkward cringy but looking back wonderful age so well. What made you want to focus on that sort of tween age group and, did you write about girls as an escape from the fact that you live with a

tween and a teen boy? Yes. I think for me, I wanted to write for that age group because I didn't really feel like there was many other books, many other authors who were doing it. There seemed to be a lot of stuff for like younger kids and then the like young adult stuff. And there wasn't really anybody who was kind of doing that real life stuff for that middle tricky kind of age.

And for me, when I was that age, I used to love reading about real life and real people. And I found that books really helped me go through all those awkward, embarrassing stages. And my personal favorite was Judy Blue. And yeah, I just couldn't, when I was like thinking about writing for kids I just couldn't really find anybody that was that was doing what she did back then I enjoyed so much so that's where

the kind of idea for Lottie came from really I just wanted to create somebody that everybody could relate to and that you know that should help people through that really tricky not quite you know quite a kid and not quite a adult yet. And there's just so many changes that you go through at that time, like puberty, starting school, friendships seem to change quite a lot as well. So yeah, that was the kind of thinking behind it.

But yes, I do have two boys, so it would be actually much more convenient if I had a girl. But I still feel like I remember that age really well. So I've mostly kind of used my own kind of memories when I'm writing it. And then I kind of like speak to my friends who've got girls that age just to get the kind of current trends and stuff like the makeup and who they've got crushes on what kind of music listen to that kind of stuff but apart from that it's kind of pretty similar I think to what you know when we were young. Well between us I think Alice and I have got five girls so if you ever want to borrow some girl angst we can share some.

I definitely need that yeah. So what's been I, the most eye-opening thing about parenting boys at this stage? And how does that differ to what you remember about being your own tween self? I mean, we try not to generalize too much, don't we? Because, you know, they're just people at the end of the day. But I do think there are quite a lot of differences between when you especially when you get to the sort of tweens and teens and between girls and boys and and boys seem to be very much and They seem to be more chilled. They seem to hang around in kind of bigger groups Perhaps that don't have they don't seem to have these these kind of friendship dramas as much as girls do and from

Me what I remember being at school is it's very much. There's a hierarchy and it'd be like you're ranking all your friends you're like you're my best friend you're my second best friend you're my third best friend and I just don't know if boys do that do they I'm not really sure well I don't nine don't tend to tend to just be like oh just oh he wants to go to the park and it's invited to like that of 20 kids that they hang around with is just not that kind of intense kind of dramatic friendships that you get. So I think, I think that's probably one of the biggest differences, I guess. But you know, as I, as I haven't got girls now, I don't know, you have to tell me. Have you got to a point? Cause aren't your boys, are they 14 and 12 now?

14 and 12. That's very good memory, Alison. I'll tell you what, I'm so good. Nearly 15 my oldest is actually, so he'd be going to year 11 next year because he's a son of a baby. Oh my goodness, so he's already doing his GCSEs. He will be, oh my god. Yeah, I really wish he was a year behind to be honest because he's just, it's not really at that point of. But are you kind of like dealing with like, I always think, you know, imagine having a boy teenager, is it just a case of you just don't go into his bedroom because it's like a hazardous zone, don't want to go in there,

whatever happens in there, you know, smelly socks, all of that stuff. I go in there all the time because I don't like all of that mess, so I'm just constantly going in and I just pick it all up and put it in the washing machine. So you're like opening the windows and huming it all. Yeah, I do all of that and I go in sometimes and he's sleeping in, he doesn't, you know, always get changed for bed, you know, just these and whatever. And then I go and I pull his socks off because he's always sleeping in socks and he stink. So I'm always just like take your socks off. And also if I don't take his socks off, sometimes I'm worried that he's going to wear them

to school again the next time. Like get them off, you can't, socks are not a two day thing. But yeah. Summer holidays are coming up and tweens and teens, or the summer holidays, it's a very, very different story to when they were little, wasn't it? It's not quite as intense. But what is it like in your house? Oh, is it intense for you, Wendy?

Oh, really? Well, let's ask the person who are actually here to listen to you, Wendy. But then I can always say my bit as well. Yeah I don't know it's not as intense to me they tend to just want to do their own stuff so actually I'm kind of on the other side of it sometimes now especially at the weekends and stuff I'm like does anyone want to go for a walk or go out with me and they're like no I've got plans doing this that and the other so I don't I tend to feel a bit lost sometimes, but my oldest as well, he's massively into scootering. So he spends all his time out

at skate parks. So we rarely see him. He's just never at home and I have to go, come back for your dinner. So yeah, he's very much does his own thing. And then my youngest is the opposite, but he's really into gaming. So he'll be on his gaming PC all the time, like Minecraft World and stuff. So like I have two very opposite problems. That's why I was saying it's harder because I feel like I spend my whole time. It's not the battle of I'm bored anymore. It's the battle of you haven't left this room or looked away from that screen in the last 12 hours. Let's go and do something.

No, I'm like, don't, no, I'm bored. Yeah. And like, well, you're not bored, but you would be bored if we go out. How does that work? Yeah. So yeah, anyway. No, that's exactly the problem.

How do you feel about that kind of fielding, keeping them off screens? Yeah, that is really tricky. And I do have that battle a lot, but yeah, not with my oldest at all because he's he's not bothered but my youngest Yeah, he's he's definitely I have to and he'd always rather be on at home on his computer So I just have to threaten him and he doesn't want to do anything with me though. It's not like I can go Oh, let's go out do this because it's not it's not that fun anymore It's it to go hang out with your mom, especially if it's just you know, just does so and So I often I'm just like right message your friends or I'm messaging his friend his mom's

His friends moms like who I know and I'm like, come on You gotta get the boys out good again to go to the park or do something So I think it's just that tricky age that he's like 12. So he's just going into that Yes in year 7 so just starting to like make his own plans and stuff and perhaps at the minute isn't quite as confident about doing it. So you need to get a bit of a push to get him outside. Something that's like a really big topic with our Netmums audience is smartphones.

And it's one thing thinking about screens and, you know, computer games and watching, you know, endless in my teenager it's like endless seasons she's watching Lost at the moment which is just like oh is it but it's just like constantly just like on demand it's just there but Phone seems like a whole other ballgame as the mum of boys have you um had that battle with them in terms of them wanting to be on you know different social platforms and dealing with dramas or is that not something that's kind of affected you guys? Yeah, I mean, I do. I think that they tend to just do that whenever they're bored, don't

they? So don't let themselves get bored because they're constantly like, got a phone or whatever and then they're scrolling. I'm just finishing this and I'm like, it's never going to finish. You can't finish the scrolling because it's constant. The internet is infinite. Yeah, exactly. There's always more funny cat videos or dog videos and things to watch. So I think it's a bit of a problem, I guess,

but I just try and encourage more, no phones at the table, just encouraging healthy use. And obviously if I see them, just scroll. And then with the TV, they're off, you know, like I do as well, pick my phone up and watching TV. I'm like, pick your phone down. We don't watch phones and the TV at the same time. So it is a bit of a struggle, but I think they're all right though.

I don't think they've had any negative, you know, it's more like I do keep track of what they're looking at and it tends to just be in scootering and animals and stuff, so it's not too bad. And I haven't seen many sort of like, you know, they haven't had any issues as such. So I just, I'm just more of the kind of like, try and encourage a healthy balance. Like I do, you know, smartphones are part of life now. And so I just feel like, you know, it's fine, but you've got to, you've got to know when to put them down, You've got to obviously have other hobbies

and get outside and do stuff. And hopefully, then when you get to being an adult, you learn how to have that balance a bit more. Like it's difficult, isn't it? Because also sort of like taking them away and saying you can't have them. It's, you know, they're so kind of necessary from a social perspective, really. Making their own plans and all the groups that they're so kind of necessary from a social perspective, really.

Got making their own plans and all the groups that they're on and stuff. It's a tricky one, but I think, you know, in a lot of ways, I think it's up to the parents. You've got to decide what's best for your kids and how to manage that relationship. And for me, I just sort of like keeping a bit of a tab on it and yeah, encouraging a bit more of a balance.

You said you haven't really had any group chat or social media disasters yet but Lottie certainly has and we have in our house so I wonder if it's more of a girl thing. I really feel for girls facing those social media what the whatsapp groups the stuff that goes on in the WhatsApp groups. I just really feel for them. You can't, all the politics and stuff, we didn't have that. No, I always feel really glad that we never had that eat as well. And I think back to my youth and like how, all the kind of drunken nights out and stuff,

and how the video evidence and all of this, the WhatsApp chats the next day, you know, discussing what went on. And I think we used to just be able to completely forget about it. And it would be, you know, you just leave it on the night and then you didn't really mind about it. You might meet for a bacon sandwich in a post-mortem. Yeah, exactly. And that was it. And then everyone laughed and moved on. And now it's, you know, we're constantly bombarded. And even as an adult, you know, we're kind of thinking, those people are all out at lunch. I didn't get invited or those people look at that holiday

they're having. It's nicer than my holidays. It's hard to not kind of compare and, you know, think we constantly see what other people are doing. And you're constantly thinking, is everyone else happier than me? Or whatever. So I think we constantly see what other people are doing and you're constantly thinking, oh, is everyone else happier than me? Or whatever, say, I think. And we do it as adults. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think it's, yeah. Kids have got underdeveloped brains. Of course, they're going to do it way more than we do. Yeah, definitely. I think I'd have been a mess. Definitely. Well, I think I'd have been arrested, probably.

Too much evidence. Too much evidence. Too much evidence exactly. The new book as I mentioned is Lottie Brooks versus the ultra mean girls. Did you encounter mean girls when you were Lottie's age? I think everybody does to an extent but I think that I was quite lucky that I had a good group of friends at school who I'm still friends with now and I think that you know the key is to kind of finding proper true friends who like you for yourself and quite often there is that kind of fake friend who can be really nice or really mean depending on the day and I think that's where you often get a bit of tricky situations. So although I, it was never like a major kind of issue, which

it does turn into. For Lottie in the new book, she has quite a hard time. Yeah, it's definitely a bit more of a, I don't want to say serious, but there was some serious undertones to this book where there's kind of a bit of bullying and some social media disasters, which leads to Lottie Villing quite anxious really. So yeah. What's your take on it as a parent? Like how can we help our kids cope with these slightly toxic, slightly complicated friendship issues? I mean I always think it's really good to having like different groups of friends and so if one friendship group goes wrong, you've got other kind of groups that you can go to and you know, whether that's different groups in school or clubs or you know, your street

or whatever. But I think it's always nice to have not putting all your eggs in one basket. And obviously that another key thing that comes out of the book is sort of knowing when to speak to your parents and asking for help. Because sometimes you can't deal with it yourself. And if you are kind of getting bullied or targeted by, you know, someone who's not very nice and making you feel very good about yourself, sometimes it does need an adult to kind of step in and try and sort it out. Yeah. kind of step in and try and sort it out. Yeah. It's that thing isn't it that I find really hard. It's not going mad when your child comes to you to share something, always

making sure they know they can come to you whatever it is. My instinct is always, Oh, I can't believe you've done this. How could you be so stupid? And then I'm like, No, come on. That's not going to encourage her to come to you next time. Yeah yeah yeah. I want to know do you ever have any moments where you realize that you have totally embarrassed your kids proper Lottie style? Are they just like mom don't do that again? Well I think I do all the time like I just sometimes I'm just walking down the street singing and then oh what are you doing? I'm just like oh sorry you know but I that's part of that one of the best bits about being a parent, to be honest, just embarrassing your friends,

your kids in front of their friends. Especially when they come around. So I'm like, I'm telling you. And that kind of thing. When my oldest first started secondary school, he had to leave to go and get the bus. I used to open the bedroom window and shout out, goodbye, my handsome little prince.

And he was my first dog. Oh, that's mean. bus I used to open the bedroom window and shout out goodbye my handsome little prince! Oh that's mean! I know but like I just think it's just really funny isn't it? Yeah I love it. See you have a huge following of young girls who will love your books including two in My House. What's the best thing about meeting those fans at signings? And do you have a lifetime supply of chunky Kit Kats by now? Oh, I do.

It's so nice going to signings because I think a lot of the time being an author, you just sort of sat behind a computer at your desk, not really speaking to anybody, and then going to signings, it makes it so much, it feels really weird because you meet the fans like upfront and they're so, they're the best fans and I think writing for that age group like the core kind

of age is nine to 12s and they're just so sweet and lovely still, you know, like miserable teenagers like, oh I don't want to be here but yeah, they're so sweet and you know, they often say about how much better Lottie makes them feel about themselves, how much of a friend they think they've found in Lottie and that kind of comment. And it's lovely to see how much she means to the girls. An occasional boy who comes along as well, but mostly girls. It's very sweet.

It's very lovely. It's nice. You better explain to everyone who's listening what the Kit Kat Chunky reference is. Yes, Kit Kat Chunky. So Lottie is a massive fan of Kit Kat Chunkies and as well Monster Munch and Pot Noodle. But Kit Kat Chunky is probably a number one thing. So I do usually get quite a few when I do a signing and sometimes some Monster Munch as well. Did you make sure that you picked things that you really like? Yeah there were things I really like, especially the Monster Munch actually and they're my favourite crisps so it's really good because often I'm going on like quite a long train journey as well so when

I get to get the train back home I'm always like yeah I've got my train snacks already so it's very good. I'm really glad. I remember where. No one's ever sent me any free Kit Kat chat. No like the you know brands have never sent me any. Yeah. What? They've done so much work for you. If you're listening. Yeah. They should get you to sponsor them or they should sponsor you more to the point. They should give you lots of money. I remember when I brought my teenager to one of your signings I think it's right, they should answer you more to the point. They should give you lots of money. I remember when I brought my teenager to one of your signings, I think it was last summer, and the queue was not round the block, it was in a shopping centre, but it was snaking all the way through the shopping centre. It was mad. It was just incredible to see. Yeah, it's mind-blowing how many people come along. It's really lovely. So good.

Now, if you had to pick which Lottie Brooks character would your kids say that you were most like? Oh, Lottie definitely. Yeah, I mean, a lot of Lottie are based on my memories of being a teenager. Didn't you go through your old diaries when you were first starting out writing? I did, I didn't write

so much when I was like actual Lottie's actual age but I wrote a lot when I was like 14 15 16 that's my kind of key maybe 17 as well key diary writing ages. So they were a little bit old but um but they were quite funny to read back. Yeah. um but also wanted to go what why did you do that why did you think that because they're you're very angsty and stuff and you kind of want to shake yourself and just say don't be such an idiot but I mean hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it oh it really is so we haven't really spoken much yet about where it all started with the Harafagin days. So I wanted to ask first of all, those little stick figures, they gave parents a lifeline. Can you tell us a little bit about them and tell me also if you still draw them?

And then I've got a really funny anecdote to share with you about the consequence of those little stick men. I just switched off then, started thinking out of stick people, sorry sorry and then I forgot what your first part of the question was. That's alright, that's fine. I was just saying can you tell anyone who doesn't know about hoarphogen, kind of what it is and how it started and I was just wondering if you still, you obviously still love stick people because you went off on a little daydream about stick people. Yes well, Haralfogen started just randomly on the sofa one night when I'd been made redundant from my job and was struggling to know where to kind of what I was doing in my life. I

was stuck at home with a baby and a toddler and I needed something to just sort of engage my brain so at the time I was finding parenthood quite hard and there didn't seem to be very much around that was talking about my experience of it which was that it was hard and so I decided to start a blog about the kind of realities and you know the funny stories that come along with parenthood and I just called it Ever After Gin just like that. I just gave it about two seconds thought, to be honest, but I liked gin as well, obviously. And it was born, and then I started,

I didn't draw stick people first of all. I think that was maybe a year or so down the line. And I didn't want to put too much pictures in of my own life, but I wanted to share some funny stories. So I just sort of started doodling little kind of cartoon, really bad, cartoon people on, it was Microsoft Paint at the time. And then it just quickly became quite apparent

that people really liked those cartoons and it just became more of a thing. So then I started just doing, you know, like social media pictures and stuff of stick people. Yeah. I think I read your blog even before the stick people arrived Casey. Yes I feel like when I first read your blog it was just written blog posts about the reality of parenting. I'm an OG gin fan. Yeah I think at one point I used to do even put some recipes on there I'm not joking. Like it was a bit it was a bit of

mix I would think I was just like oh I don't know I've got to start a blog I want to make it kind of quite real but I'm also just gonna you know other people are doing recipes and family pictures so I was kind of just trying a few things out and then yeah luckily you know found my kind of style in the end. So the story I wanted to tell you was that when you brought out the first Harafajin book, I think I got gifted it three times so it tells you a lot about what people thought of me and my parenting style at the time, but one of my friends had it and she kept it in her downstairs loo as she do with these things and one day it became very apparent that her seven-year-old had been reading Harafajin because he came out and he bumbled into the kitchen.

He said, mommy, what does fuck this shit mean? And she was like, where did you hear that? And he'd basically been reading Harafah June. And he was quite a good reader for a seven-year-old, and he'd read it from cover to cover, and the questions that he had about this book. I love it. I mean to be fair this sort of humour isn't too dissimilar to like the Lottie books it's just it's just a lot

more swearing really but yeah my kids used to be the same they used to come home with their friends and get the books out and try and find the rudest bits and the rudest one is actually the Archie Adams book which is the second one that I did that's got some really bad swears in so they they prefer that one but I've had a lot of kids find that on their parents bookshelf and they've the kids have really enjoyed enjoyed that one. Because it looks like a kids book. Well it basically is a kids book really to be fair. It's just a very immature book for adults. I feel like all the Lottie Brooks readers now will in like 10-15 years time they'll discover your Harafer Jinn's book. Oh god that's so weird isn't it? That's true maybe they could maybe they will they'll go

oh I used to read these books when so it'll go like generation to generation you know sort of like ping-pong. Exactly. I like that. Yeah I get a lot of parents say oh you know because because I guess that they're the kids um that are reading the Lottie books a similar age to my kids so they kind of had her off for gin and then they've gone oh and now my kids are reading your books that's really weird but yeah and then maybe they're... exactly so just keep going yeah you never know. Finally Katie you are eight books unbelievably not unbelievably because that makes it sound like you shouldn't be but you're eight books into the Lottie series. How many more books do you think there will be and will we still be reading about Lottie when she's at university, necking shots, getting

into her lectures late with a hangover? And importantly, will there be a TV adaptation? Because we got one with Tracy Beaker, so let's have one with Lottie. Well, yeah, I mean, there's definitely more Lottie. Lottie's definitely got more legs in her. So I'm writing the, I'm already writing the one after the one that's about to come out. And then there's definitely going to be a few more after that too, have already been agreed. So yeah, if she can't grow up too much though, she's got to stay in the kind of like nine to 12 age bracket. So she can't really sort of like do going out drinking and snogging because that would be a bit too like risque for that kind of not well she can't she couldn't move

like the thing is she could get older but she can't you know it's got to be age appropriate for that kind of core reader group so she can't grow up too much. We had Tracy Beaker grow up didn't we like years later Jacqueline Wilson wrote Tracy Beaker books where she was the mum and she's got a kid. Oh okay. We had her on the podcast. Yeah I could do that maybe. That was one of her favorite things that she did. Oh interesting. Write Tracy Grown Up. Yeah oh interesting well you never know maybe well that's something to think about isn't it. Or maybe Lottie's got a wayward cousin you never know. You never know. Maybe there's gonna be another Brooks girl. books girl. Or a books boy. I would quite like to write it from a different audience. I definitely think the kind of older

teenage years would be lots of fun to do. Yeah, you could be the good then. Look at your old diaries and draw from it. Yeah, we've got lots of drunken stories to share from those. And then TV. Yeah. That is, yeah, it's, it's, it's in talks. So I'm really cross your fingers. Yeah. Yeah. There's, I don't know how much I'm allowed to say really, cause it's not been announced. So maybe I should say it all. It'll be fine. Just say it all. Yeah. It's been an optioned. So exciting. So, um, it's still lots of hoops to jump through. I think the TV process is long. So yeah, but I'm really hopeful. I think it'd be really good. Fingers crossed. That's so exciting. Katie, thank you so much for coming to join us on

Netmums here. It's been fantastic to talk to you. Thank you for having me. It's been really fun. Don't forget you can get in touch with us on all social channels, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, just type in Netmums and you'll find us. And if you liked what you've heard today, we'd love for you to give us a five-star rating. Press the follow button and share the podcast on all your socials.