The Netmums Podcast - S18 Ep3: LOU BECKETT: Confessions from a default parent and how to survive the mental load

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, JB Gill and Louise Burke dive into the often unspoken role of the ‘default parent’ (the one who knows the school schedule, the birthday party details, and the ins and outs of family life). Joining them is Lou Beckett, writer, former teacher, and mother of two – and also wife of comedian Rob Beckett. Her new book, Lessons from a Default Parent, sheds light on the realities of being the one who takes on the lion’s share of the parenting load.Lou shares her personal motherhood journey, discussing the gradual realisation of her default parent status and the complexities that come with it – and how to survive. In this episode:- The emotional and practical challenges of being the default parent- Insights into the dynamics of parenting roles and the impact on relationships- Plenty of laughs and relatable stories from Lou's experiences- The importance of communication and understanding in co-parentingGrab your copy of Lessons from a Default Parent by Lou Beckett, available now.This episode of The Netmums Podcast is brought to you by Aldi Mamia.Read more expert help on Netmums.com and join the conversation on socials @Netmums.JB and Louise also want to hear your parenting stories, questions and dilemmas! So please share them with us at [e-mail] and we can bring you into the conversations that matter on The Netmums Podcast.This podcast is brought to you by Netmums: backed by experts, trusted by parents. Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

This episode of The NetMum's podcast is brought to you by Aldi Mammaia. If you're a first time or a new parent, there's a lot you don't realize you'll suddenly have very strong opinions on. Car parking bays, the price of fresh fruit, screen time and also nappies. Because no one wants a nappy nightmare in the middle of the night or during a busy playgroup session. And let's not talk about the potential disasters that can happen on a long car journey. Oh no. In those early weeks through to the toddler phase, you need all the support you can get and

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We're here to talk all things parenting and get advice from experts on the things that matter most to you, our listeners, our community. Now, we've got an interesting chat lined up today. One that actually feels quite close to the bone for me, actually, to be honest. And I'm guessing for a lot of you listening as well. Now, when it comes to family life, are you the one who knows what day, P.E., is, knows where the missing packed lunchbox could be, or up to date with who needs a birthday present this weekend. Then you are the default parent and this episode is for you.

Equally, I am, I'll say nervous because I know that I'm definitely not the default parent, but I am the only parent in our household that remembers birthday. So at least that's a win for me. Well, that's something. I've got some backup here today. We're joined by someone who has written a book all about Survivor. as a parent. Today we're joined by writer, former teacher, mum of two and the voice behind motherhood blog, A Very Long Winge, Lou Beckett. Also, wife to comedian Rob Beckett, who a lot of you will know from parenting hell. Yes. Now, Lou's new book lessons from a default parent has just come out, and honestly, it is a brilliant and funny read, isn't it? It's great. It was one of those books

where I actually laughed out loud. A hundred percent. And I'll be honest, I'm going to make it my mission to make sure that every dad I know reads it as well. You should. Lou, welcome to the Netmum's podcast. Hi, thank you. Let's firstly address for those of us that might not, I was going to say, might not know about it. I definitely think they realize they would be a default parent. Because in your book that you state exactly what a default situation is, you state it as what exists or happens unless someone or someone else changes it. I'm guessing you wrote this book because you consider yourself as a default parent in your house. Completely. I am 100% the default parent, which I think in anybody's situation, I mean, I've never seen a family where it is

completely 50-50, but if you exist, raise your hand, show us the way. Because I just... I don't know with that. No. Yeah. I think it's very difficult for it to be 50-50. Yeah. But there are definitely moments like you say when, you know, someone becomes the default. But like you allude to, of course, in the book, the default often happens on the mum's side. Yeah, I think right from birth, and obviously everyone's situations are different. And the way that Rob works, it's very, he's away a lot or he's very here or he's feast and famine. So it absolutely makes sense for us for me to take on the majority of that parenting load. but I think where default parenting slips in

is that extra bit where you go there's not actually a real reason why I'm doing X, Y, Z. It's just that we've kind of snowballed into this and unless I specifically go, can you do this? And then I feel like I'm asking a favour and you feel like you're... But then you're managing or you're managing, right? Because then I'm like, that's another job.

That's it. You kind of go, well, I don't want to ask you. I want you to do it. But, and it's that all those little things. things that go beyond that who's staying home and who's going back to work. That is obviously a massive, massive question. But it's all the little grey area that just gets slowly swept into what I put as. And I did exist as a phrase before.

I'm not claiming it as my own, but like default parents. You are now. Yeah, it's mine now. I own that. Yes, yes. You've got two gorgeous kids who you like to keep private. But when did you realize that you weren't just a parent? You were the parent in the family. I think it happens really slowly.

And it's, the word insidious is really dramatic. But it is that really slow creep almost of it, where it starts with right from when you get pregnant. There's nothing I can do about it because it's biology, but it is outrageously unfair that that all falls on the mum, or generally the mum in that dynamic. Some people love it, more power to them. Not my bag, not for me.

It was a kind of, I wanted kids, so I knew I had to do it, but I didn't love most of being pregnant. But you didn't. Giving birth. I'm not a very nice pregnant person. Just because, I'm... Just because of the physical sort of uncomfortable nursing, the changes of hormones.

I'm hormonal. I'm raging. I'm spiteful. I'm sick to about six and a half months. And then I get like, I couldn't walk after that. It just, I'm just,

but then I think once you're pregnant, it sets up all of those precedents. Because you're having the baby and then you're birthing the baby and then you have to recover from having the baby. So then you have the baby and the baby's with you. And then you have to feed the baby. And all of these things are lovely,

beautiful things. but they're lovely beautiful things that you're doing and then it just doesn't change as... No, and it doesn't change us physically for the dad in that situation. No, no, I think there's a great chapter in the book where you actually put some questions to Rob, don't you? And I think when you, he talks about,

you talk about pregnancy and I think a lot of dads will feel exactly the same about you, J.B. But, you know, obviously he's witnessed to say, seeing you be pregnant. But otherwise he's kind of going to work and just waiting for the day that the baby comes up. Kind of carrying on as he was before. And I know that that comes with its own challenges for dads because I think Bob felt

quite separate to it. Isn't like, I'd like to be more involved and I'd like to be feeling the things you're feeling. I don't think he would have liked to felt them for very long. But I think he would have, you know, and I think, yeah, I'm not having it. You have been right with it. You, I mean, if science could work this somehow, I would have taken that option. all day, especially after I'd had one, I'd be like, you can do the second, that's fine.

But, yeah, I think it is, it just sets it up right from the off that, and even after you've had the baby, I, you know, I very much felt like I had just pushed a baby out my body. And I felt that for a long time. And Rob could leave across and go back to work and he physically looked and felt the same. Or as I was like, I don't know who I am. I don't know whose body is. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a real change in time. Obviously, I don't know the ins and outs of that for you, Lou, but I know with Clow, you know, she had a caesarean and it was an emergency searing with Ace for our first.

And initially, I definitely was of that mindset, you know, not feeling separate. I don't think I ever felt that. But, you know, I did think to myself, oh, no, do you know what, Clow's going to be doing the majority of defeating and Closom would do the majority of the caring for Ace. But because she'd ended up having the emergency cesarean, I actually ended up doing quite a lot in those early days. days. So I pretty much remember telling Clow to sit down and not do anything. And, you know, obviously she'd breastfed. So she did feed Ace, but I would make sure that I was up. I'd clean his napi, you know, if you woke up in the middle of the night or whatever, then give her, sorry, him to her to do the feeding. And then once she was finished, I would pick him up,

putting him back in the, or whatever, do you know what I mean? But obviously for the majority of, of women, you know, especially after the given birth. It's very much, like you say, an assumed role. And you write about sort of not remembering signing up for that role. So what did you think in those early days that parent was actually going to look, parenting even was going to look like. I think and I sound wildly naive and I say this, I know, because people, I've always people kind of go,

but what were you expecting to happen? Well, like, both of our children were very, very planned, very, very wanted. And I love them. But I almost kind of didn't really think about having a baby beyond having the baby and we kind of got home and I remember sitting in our flat and the front door shut and my mum left and I was like oh oh this is mine now yeah and I have to keep it alive and I have to make sure she's fed and happy and well and all of the things and actually the kind of real practicalities of and I don't know if there's any way I could have been prepared for it

because I don't think you can be not not really because it's so total and it's so annoyed I agree. That actually if someone did, if you thought about it properly in its entirety, you'd probably go bonkers and no one would do it. But the kind of enormity of it washed over me quite quickly where I was like, oh, nothing is ever going to be the same again. I will probably never be able to leave the house or at least for, well, I mean, I'm 10 years in and I still can't just leave the house. And obviously you can't. You can't just walk out your son tour because you have a baby that you have to make sure is safe and well. and someone responsible is with them.

But that really, I remember feeling quite daunted by that. I'll go, oh, nothing's ever going to be the same again. And even though it's better, it's better than it was. It's such a seismic change that getting my head around it really, I really struggled with that. Even though I wanted it and I was enjoying it and I loved her and I wouldn't have changed it, I just didn't really know how to handle it

and I wasn't really prepared, I don't think. And it felt like Rob could just leave the house because he did. He went back work like a couple of days after she was born because he was doing Taskmaster and he had to. But he didn't have to. But you know, it's work and freelancers.

You have to kind of make haywall sunshine. But yeah, it just felt like he could put on his shoes and go. And it's so conflicting, isn't it? It's conflicting emotions because like you say, it's just an absolute joy in privilege of this kid. But then you've got hormones raging in you and you're feeling utterly burnt out and exhausted.

It's, you know, you're feeling other emotions. There's nothing else you do really up until that point where you don't stop it at some point. You go to work and it's very stressful but at some point Friday comes, the kids go home and you have a weekend.

At no point do you go, well, that's enough of that now. I finished my shift. You have her. Yeah. You interestingly write a chapter which is about a conversation that I often talk about

with friends who are thinking about having a baby because I would say there's so much talk about having a baby. Are you going to have a baby, when you're going to have a baby, have like, or when you're expecting your baby. But no one talks about like after the baby, you know, like the whole life. And in your book, you, it's really good because all the different chapters sort of focus on those different stages of bringing up a child from the birth stories, which I love a burst story. I mean, get a load of women around a table with a bottle of wine and the birth stories are just coming out, left, right and center. It's brilliant.

love it. But then you've also got like all the stages when they go through their toddlers and then toddler stage and then the sort of admin ramps up when they're when they join school and then you as a mum or a parent change because you're thrown towards the school gate and it's all like navigating a whole new world. But yeah we don't talk necessarily all about that bit which is huge and like the main sort of story of parenting. We sort of always focus on the on the on the baby side, don't we? Which isn't necessarily that help? No, and actually, once I got over the birth bit, and I was very lucky, I had to, you know,

everyone's got their birth stories and I have things that I would have changed about them. But I was very lucky. I had two relatively straightforward births, two, took home two healthy babies that, you know, all was well, ended well, and all of the things, which was, I know I'm very lucky because it doesn't always you hear awful stories and people with trauma and like you know and I think I've not had one but people say C-sections like it's the easy route I'm like it's major abdominal surgery I had my appendix out for a tiny little tube and it knocked me for six four weeks I was like no I can't do it I was like if someone had cut me open I'd still be lying down well it's trauma yeah yeah

yeah it gets kind of I don't yeah I've heard people be very dismissive about it. It's like, oh, it came out the sunroof. I'm like, no, no. Agreed. I've cut every layer of that lady's stomach open. Like, let's be sensible here. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's pretty sure. I've distracted myself with cesareans now. I can't remember where this was going other than. We're just, it was just, I mean, this is the thing with birthing stories. You can just go off on. Tangiers. We can talk about just birthing forever.

I was going to say, what's the, what's the, the trickiest thing about being a default parent, is it the work itself that you have to put in? Or is it the fact that nobody bloody notices you're even doing it? I think it's a combination. It is the feeling like you're working the hardest you've ever worked, but no one's really noticing because all of these things are just happening. There's no big seismic event where people go, oh my God, that was amazing. Maybe I'm really praised your friend or... You're not going to have a PDF or a review. I was a teacher before so obviously everything is very results driven you know the kids get the results

So someone goes, well done, Miss Watts. I was Miss Watts when I was teaching or Offstead come in and they, it's very tangible. You have a good day. You have a good lesson. You have a good set of exam results. And suddenly I was like, I felt like I was working so hard 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And we were still just about scraping by. Like I looked like a state.

The house looked like a state. The kids were eating fish fingers for 12 meals a day. Like it. And I was like I'm working so hard. I don't feel like I'm achieving anything or anyone's even noticing it. so many other people are doing it as well. And then I think it is that it's the kind of loss of personal freedom to just, I felt like I had to justify everything I did.

If I wasn't with the girls, I felt like I had to have a really good reason for doing whatever I was doing because I was having to arrange babysitting or Rob was having to change his work. It was, I've never, and I think up until having kids, I think probably most people haven't, you've never had to kind of book everything in your life that you want to do. You just went and did it. I need to pop to the shops or I'd just like I'd like to get my nails done.

But then it feels really indulgent because I'd like to get my nails done. But that means I have to leave the baby with my mum for an hour who was a paediatric nurse and raised three children. And what a terrible mum I am for leaving them because I want to get my nails done with a paedia. Yeah, I'm like, I just want to get my nails done. That's normal. But you feel really bad about it because you're having to impact other people. What would you say to, I'll say the other parent, right, the one who's not the default? Because I won't make any excuses for Rob, but I definitely feel like, for me personally, you know, I kind of understand because my work is similar.

You know, a lot of it is ad hoc. You know, sometimes stuff will come in and then, you know, you feel like you've got to take it because, of course, you're providing, you know, certainly not in my family for the family. And, you know, it's often very, very, I feel so bad the other day. Kiara had netball and she's been doing netball all term and I do actually know that fact which is great but obviously Chloe takes it to school and does netball

and goes and stands and watches and I love to do that as much as I can but this whole time I've not been able to do it and I've been so gutted and the other day I thought I was going to be able to do it and then I got work and I had to go and I wasn't able to do it and I understand that fact but of course that doesn't change

the reality that yeah do you know what I mean So I don't know if you have anything that you could offer, you know, any words or wisdom you can offer to the non-default parent. But I think it's such an interesting, you know, like you say, you're talking about getting your nails and stuff. I understand Chloe needs those things. But it's very, very difficult to, well, not difficult, but, you know, I'm conscious of not necessarily being able to afford those things in whatever situation as the non-defort parent. I think it's really hard because everything is a balance and everything's got a compromise somewhere. I'm very aware that I'm very lucky that I get to be the default parent as well,

that Rob's work and the way that he works has, and I wasn't very well when I left teaching either. I've got colitis, so I was in a massive, quite number of months long flare. So I went part-time and then eventually left completely. So then when I got pregnant, I didn't have a job to go back to, which made it obviously made the decision a bit easier because it wasn't like I was on maternity leave. if they'd been that year kind of countdown

or however long I'd taken, maybe I would have gone back or maybe I felt differently, would have felt differently about it. But I think, so I'm very aware that I'm very lucky that we had the set up that allowed me,

one, to be off work when I was very poorly, and then to stay at home with them. Because it's a choice. I complain about it a lot in the book, but it is a choice that I've made and it's a very willing, happy choice I've made to be at home with them. Yeah.

But I think like you're saying to be Rob's the same. He misses, it's feast or famine. He's either there completely or he's almost gone completely. So I think he feels that he'd like to be more involved with some of the things that I kind of take charge on. But if I tried to like give him party bags and then he went off for a week and then the party bags didn't get done, I'd do them. It's never going to happen. No. And then he'd come home with some stuff he'd bought, but it didn't go with the rest of it. And it just, so it's that, it's just, it's a constant balance.

And I think it's very hard for both of you at some point not to feel a bit hard done by. Like, he feels a bit hard done by in one way and I feel a bit hard done by in the other way. But, you know, we're making the best decisions we can, which is all you can do. Just out of interest. Just out of interest. And this, I'm asking this on behalf of Chloe, right? This is like the therapy session now, J. I know, right.

Is it easier, right? I'm asking this question relatively carefully. Is it easier when he's there or there or when he's away? Because I know the answer that Chloe would give to this. And obviously, being the default parent, are there any pluses to be in the default parent as well? Do you know what? When he's here and he's here for a chunk of time,

it's easier or when he's away properly, that's easier. They're both, it's that crossover in the middle where if I'm by myself and I'm just doing it, I don't get annoyed. The fact I'm doing it because there is no one else in the house to do it. So I just do all the things. And there's no one to depend on and there's no one to let you down. That's what I always say. You can just soldier on. If I'm not doing it, it's not getting done. So I just do it. Whereas when we're both here and I'm thinking about something or something needs done or I get asked a question that the information is available to, I'm. am not the sole conduit of knowledge to the things that are on the wall or on the emails or on the school letters or whatever. It's that crossover.

It's the transition between him not being here and him being here. Because I don't get annoyed if I'm by myself, I just do it. People go like, oh, you're working so hard. I'm like, that's fine because I'm just doing it. It's when I'm here and he's there and I can see him not doing the thing. And I'm like, you could do that. You could do this. You can answer this question.

You can even like on holiday. you can put the sun cream on. That is one thing he's taken from reading the book. Yeah. When we went on holiday, he did all the sun cream. It's a choice. And it was lovely. He was like, I'm going to be in charge of sun cream.

I was like, you do. You be in charge of sun cream. You go with that. And it was lovely, actually. But it's like little things like that of. And he fulfilled that. Yeah. He was in charge of sun cream the whole holiday.

And it was. Sun cream application. That's good. And it's just that little, like almost that little mental shift of when we're getting ready to go out. the pool on holiday or even like just leaving the house to go to school somebody not being in charge of I was in charge of me and the girls and Rob was in charge of himself and it's just that shift of like oh actually we're all here and we're all going to the same place and we're all

leaving at the same time so we could all be in charge of this yeah yeah yes yeah um you mentioned before about like the pluses of being a default parent is that um you are around you're more present more and it's a privilege for you and I imagine you've got a really close bond with your daughters as well but comedian Ellie Taylor I know she reads your book yeah she's commented on on the book as well and and I totally when I read her quote saying it's the most joyous privilege but the heaviest burden sometimes of being that default I was like oh yeah I that I you know I read those words and I was just like yeah I totally get it but Rob he announced at the end of last year that he was taking a bit more of a backseat to let you obviously release your book and and oh you're

about to say something he's he's not leaving or retiring from comedy he's done that thing where he's made a joke at some point and then no he he's been very very supportive of me doing this and us putting in place whatever we needed to put in place so that when I had work or when I was writing it that I had the space to do that. And so he's been incredibly supportive of that whole process because obviously it did necessitate a bit of a shift of, I am, no pun intended, like the default to the max of I'm always here. So if I have anything on, it has to be either inside school hours

or I have to arrange somebody. So he was kind of more saying during this process and whatever happens after, I don't know, I don't know what I want that to look like. I don't know what it could look like or whatever happens, even if I went back to teaching, whatever, that he would be, that he's very supportive of us doing what we needed to do to facilitate that.

Some more flexible. Yeah, rather than a full scale. I mean, because he says quite a lot. He was like, you can go back to work and I will be that. And I was like, you wouldn't last three days. I would be stood at the front of a classroom trying to teach getting the little SOS messages of things that were needed. I was listening to one of your episodes where you were saying, you had the meeting three nights pizza express.

You didn't do any washing. You didn't. Yeah. And, you know, they survived. Yeah, they got from A to B. Sometimes I just think when they're on their own. I went away with my friend. So they've got two girls as well.

So two dads were left in charge. I went away with my friend, couple of nights just to de-stress. We had a FaceTime phone call from both of them saying the girls, they had to sleep over, so they were all together. The girls won't go to bed. What do we do? I was like, what do you want us to do? I was like, you're in the house.

I can't help you. I was like, I can't help you with this. Sorry. And then signals bad, put the phone down. I was like, what do you want me to do? End call. I'm not telling them off for you over this time. Yeah.

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You mentioned then about pregnancy and how it wasn't your finest nine months or however long that period was for you and physically as well as emotionally. And look, I think everyone can relate to losing parts of themselves whilst trying for a baby, having a baby, sort of bringing up a baby for sure. Do you feel like those parts, firstly, which parts did you feel like you lost in those times? And how long did it take you to get those back? And are any parts still missing of you, do you feel, if you're not completely yourself again? I don't think I'm back to who I was pre-kids even now, and I'm 10 years on.

I think I'm a new person now and kind of everything, over the last, say like, so my oldest is 10, over the last decade, all of that's kind of added to me as a person. But that first bit, when, kind of when you're pregnant, but then that first bit with the baby, it's so focused on all of your, well, all of my, obviously everyone's experiences are different. Some people, I've got a friend, she's got four kids, she loves being pregnant, she loves labour.

I think she's deeply weird, but she loves it and she really thrives on it. I'm just not, I don't handle it physically very well, I'm very hormonal and very emotional, I'm not very nice to anybody when I'm pregnant. Rob can attest to that. I'm a deeply spiteful ball of rage. But I think that you're so focused on the baby afterwards, as you should be.

And I think because I kind of had a few things all at once, I'd left my teaching job, but then got pregnant fairly quickly afterwards because we thought it would take us much longer. And so I felt like I'd lost, like one of my main anchors to my identity pre-mum was being a teacher was a big part of my identity. Like it's a vocation. I really, I loved it.

I loved the subject. I loved teaching the boys. I had taught at boys school. Didn't just teach the boys and ignore girls. It was all boys. A boys school. Boy school in Thamesmead. Challenging.

But it was, I really, really enjoyed it. But I think I just felt very, very unmoored from the person that I was. And I felt like, and almost the longer it went on. And I think I don't have postnatal depression, but I think the baby blues hit me hard. I'm not going to go as far as postnatal depression or anything like that. But I think I felt very, very unmoored from the person I was and was very deep in like the baby thing.

We struggled with breastfeeding. Rob was working quite a lot when she was little. Like a lot of people. It was deep midwinter, so it was dark all the time. It's very hard to feel cheerful and when it's gloomy all the time. Yeah. Yeah, and it just, and then I think that kind of just carried on. And it's very hard to remember who you were when everything feels different.

You physically feel different. You're doing different things. Your life has changed completely. And it's taken me a really long time to kind of, not claw it back, but just build it back up to the point where I didn't feel bad about going, I'd like to be me again, but me and a mum. It's not like being a mum is brilliant and I love it. And I think a lot of, I don't want to speak for everyone,

but I think it's very hard to say anything like I'd like to be more than just a mum without feeling incredibly guilty that this somehow isn't enough for you. Yeah. and when it is it is beautiful and I love it but I also I needed something else that that was something else that I was like I'm you know I spent 29 years being not a mum yeah and I had a lot going on and it's yeah well that's it yeah that's it because I you know I definitely know you know there's I'm sure parents out there who feel exactly the same you know and I guess any parent could yeah could feel same. You know, is it bad for a parent to admit that I love my kids, I love having kids,

but I miss my old life? And I think that that is normal. It'd be weird if you said, I actually didn't miss anything about my pre-baby life. You go, yeah, I miss being able to walk out the door and I miss the freedom and I miss the irresponsibility and all of these things. But yeah, but like those two hands can be true at the same time that you can love being a parent because I love it. But also, I felt very lost from the person. than I was before I was a parent and I think it is literally, I don't want to be over dramatic, or scare

anyone that's right in those early stages but it's taken me a long time to get back to that and I think writing the book was able to really, really get it down in a very cathartic, measured way and I kind of almost analysed it in a way that in a much clearer headspace and I had been when I was in it,

it's at like hindsight's 2020 and I was like, oh, that's how I felt and that's why. And it's a nice kind of marking piece where I've gone like, oh, I feel much more me now. It's very validating, kind of having it all down on paper. Yeah, and that feels, yeah, and you must feel so much happier as well, feeling more like you.

Yeah, yeah, no, completely. And what do you think, I'm just hearing you talk then as well, like, what do you think about the phrase, stay at home, mum? Oh, it's hard because I am one. But it's still, yeah, I'll go first. I don't like the phrase. You don't like it? I don't like it.

I don't like it. I remember like when I'd had my, so I had twins for my second pregnancy. And I was like, I did go back to work, but, and then it all went a bit pear shaped because they were all three under three. And so I had to sort of partly due to the cost of child care and everything, illness and everything else. that sort of took a bit of time at home. And I remember someone saying to me, like, well, you're a stay at home, mum.

And I remember the day someone said that to me outside the school gate. And I was just like, what? I'm a what? Yeah. Because I just never had labelled myself like that. I still refer to myself as a teacher for ages. When I wasn't teaching, people go, where did you teach. It was like, oh, not anymore.

But I did. And I am. Just not now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the thing. just didn't but it is like you've talked about it in your book as well because it is a job it's

yeah you know being at home looking after kids is it is an is unpaid labor right we'll we'll pretty clear of that it's a bloody hard job staying at home looking after it's joyous at times but it's really hard um yeah no I just just as hearing you talking then I just sort of sprung into my head about the phrase day among because it's all it's all it's quite old fashioned as well yeah it's very old fashioned and there's all the kind of little little bit of little bit of little connotations of, well, you must have loads of time or if you're going to stay at home, you should be doing all of these things. Because if I'm managing, I just think as parent, mum specifically, we have found new and imaginative ways to make ourselves feel bad about almost

everything. And it's, I know like comparison is a thief of joy and you should, and we, I know all the things, but it's very, very hard not to go to places and go, well, we, we're, the kind of same age and our kids are the same age and and I feel like I'm working the hardest I've ever worked and you're doing the same thing as I am but you're also working and it's very hard not not to feel bad almost constantly about something and then I think someone can use a really innocuous phrase like to stay at home mum and they might not necessarily mean anything by it but I'm like mm no I am I think it was the content looking thinking back to it I think it was probably the context because it was like well you're a set home mom

So you can do this. Yeah, you don't do anything. Yeah, I hate that. I think it was more of the sort of contact. Oh, I'd love to be able to come on the school trips. But I, I, I, because I'm at work and I was like, you can go to Leeds Castle. I don't mind. Like, I'll go to your job.

Yeah. You know, it's. Yeah. Now, I'm with you. I absolutely, I can't stand it. And, you know, Chloe gets it all the time. And, you know, I'm sure it's the same with, well, all your kids, you know, for, for Artu, we're, they're literally here, there and everywhere.

Ace Place Academy Football. He's doing stuff up in West Brom on one weekend. Then he's up in Manchester the next weekend. And we're down in wherever. It's just non-stop. And Chloe has a grip of all of it. And it's not easy. And she's not just sitting around, you know,

doing toast and, you know, whatever, a coffee morning. Like she's, you know, having to manage a lot. And I think that's what it is. I think it's, do you think it's the fact that people don't see it, that? makes it so forgettable. And I think that sometimes even the person doing it, you're not giving yourself enough credit for how much you're doing. You're essentially like a facilities

and logistics manager, a COO of, yes, the team is relatively small. You're a CEO. Let's big it up. There's a lot of things to keep running on tracks to make sure everyone's where they need to be at the right time with the right stuff. And I think we've almost so long made a bit of a joke about mums and mental load and the amount of things and PE kits and all the letters from school. It is really hard to keep on top of that. And that like if I went back to work, we'd need almost full-time childcare because of the way that Rob works. So I'd be employing somebody on a full-time basis. And you'd be managing that person.

Yeah. To cover the work that I would no longer be doing because I was working elsewhere because I am working. And no one would judge that person if they were coming in and being either like a nanny or a housekeeper or whatever. You know, obviously it changes as the kids get older. You need a driver to get your one to various football places and stuff. So I think it's that kind of, you go, actually, just because I don't have a contract,

and actually if I put my hours down on a contract, you pay me more. Like, I need for these hours. Exactly. It's like a salary. Yes. Yeah. And actually the transferable skills you get, like, I could do hostage negotiation from talking to like the school receptionist and other moms on a WhatsApp group.

And, you know, I could go into high level NATO with the level of politics. Absolutely. Go for it. The world's you're always drafted. Yeah. Well, Lou, you. touched, of course, on Rob, and we do have to talk about parenting health. I've been a guest on it. It's, of course, Rob's podcast with Josh Whittaker. But Lou features heavily on this, right?

I think me and Rose get, I do indeed. And yeah. Yeah. Well, no, to be fair, I think, obviously, when I came on it, I think he was pretty kind to you. I don't remember him going too harding on you. But can you tell us how you really feel about Rob chatting about you on the podcast? I don't mind it. It's one of those things. I don't mind in principle. It's a bit like when I appear in his tour show material. I don't mind the principle.

It's when I go, you have thrown me under the bus there for a laugh or for your own amusement. Yeah. No, I don't. And secrets get out, right? Secrets are out. Like, didn't he talk about how you shave his leg? Yeah. I mean, I think that puts him in a worse light than me.

though to be honest. As long as he's not shaving mine. Yeah. I did interlayser hair removal for him, but he's too blonde. They said it wouldn't work. I'm like, oh, probably in about 50%. I'll take it. I'll take it.

I love how you looked into the laser hair. No, because I'm the one in the garden. Yeah, that's true. No, I don't mind it really because I get my writer replies. And Josh is normally on my side about things. It's when there's normal. normally a complaint. Like he was saying the other day

that I brushed the girl's hair too hard and that I make them cry before they go to school. Yeah. But, and he's like, I don't make them cry, but I'm like, but he's not brushing the hair all the way through. He's just doing the top layer. No, he's just stroking. He's not doing it properly.

Stroking the hair like their cat. And I'm like, well, that's going to be matted. And I'm going to have to deal with that later. We're going to have to cut it out. And they're going to have little like choir boy cuts. Yeah. So it's more of that where I just, every so often I feel we need to redirect on the accuracy of it because we could all brush their hair and only stroke their scalp a little bit.

You know. Yeah. See, for me, it's even worse. My daughter has literally the longest hair known to any daughter of life. And I do it softer than Chloe will do it. And she cries sometimes when I do it. Yeah. And she will literally be like, I want mommy to do it.

And I'm like, hold on the same. second, I'm doing it much nice of the mummy. I'm definitely being a lot kind of to you. There is no situation where a kid won't play to the other parent. There's no like when daddy does it, when mummy does it. Oh, not so. Yeah. So you mentioned this book's been quite cathartic and then balanced out, like you said,

with stories that get aired out on the other podcast by Rob. Has those two things, the point you're like, the way you're like, the way your life plays out on podcast and writing this book. Has this changed life in your house or your relationship in any way? Whether it's either made things better, like because things get aired out sort of via the book or podcast, or is it made it better for you to make a point when things aren't quite going the way you want to do?

I think in two ways. Our little bickers often get sorted out on the podcast, because he'll say it for a laugh or he'll repeat a story and I'll very much be the villain. Yeah, so we'll, but then it's almost like we'll do it of the space of a week where something will happen, he'll go in, slag me off to Josh or I'll be the butt of the joke or the villain or whatever. And then I can vote, I voice note Josh, who then will play it at some point and be on my side. So we kind of, we work out our bickers in a way that doesn't really lead to an argument because it's so slow. that it's like arguing by carrier pigeon

but that and then Josh like I say normally takes my side so Rob will back down but then in a kind of much bigger way I wrote the whole book and then Rob read it afterwards after I'd read it so because I wanted to write it without being aware of his kind of his interference yeah or that I wasn't trying to be too nice or I wanted it to be really honest

and I think when he read it actually what it did we could have proper discussions not like really serious ones. But I think it was able to, normally, by the time things come up about like you're not helping enough or I feel like I'm doing too much or why aren't you doing this. But the time it comes up, normally you're cross.

Normally you're in the middle of that. I'm really stretched. Now I feel like I'm in a corner and you're waltzing off. And I don't think he's ever felt like he's waltzing off because he's obviously going out to work. But it's very hard to remember that when someone's getting to leave the house and you're not. So I think it,

Instead of it getting to a point where we were like cross or a bit resentful or really quite emotional, he's been able to read it in a much more measured way and he's read it in a much more measured way. And then we've kind of had, like I say, sun creams like a little example, but just that, just being much more mindful, I think. And I think he's understood it in a way that maybe when it's come up before, I've been trying to express it, but like muttering under my breath. being cross. You just don't remember what the answers are on the email if you just look at it, but no, we won't look at it, will we? And that's not a good way to start. Start a, why don't you look at the school emails conversation if you're like muttering under your breathful of rage, which I do quite a lot.

But, yeah, it's kind of facilitated much bigger, calmer conversations, yeah, about our roles and division of responsibility and stuff. Has writing the book changed then what's happening in our house? You mentioned obviously all about sun cream, Have there been other things that have, you know, changed as a result of Rob reading it and you obviously haven't written it? Or is it just a case of becoming better at arguing in the case? I think it has made him more aware of the way that maybe I felt about things and maybe the kind of breadth of being the default parent and that role. So people have asked, like, is it just for default parents?

It absolutely is. Mostly, obviously, it is for, I want it to be a bit of validation and a bit of solidarity and whatever stage you're in, it changes and it gets better and it shifts. But I think for the non-default, I do think, obviously I know I'm going to say this, it's useful for everyone, everyone should buy it. But I do think it is useful for that quite measured other perspective of if you're not in that default role, it's very hard to get your head round it. it and this isn't going to be applicable to everyone's experience.

It's not going to be completely same as mine. But I hope that non-defaults can read it and get something from it as well, that they'll be able to see maybe their partner's perspective or at least empathise with their experience a bit more and see it from each other's perspective a little bit. Because I know like Rob said, when he's come in sometimes, and he's had a really hard day at work or he's been filming really long hours or he's been away for a week and he's really missed the kids and he's really miss being at home. And then he's asked me what I've done.

I'd be like, oh, well, I went to the tape with my mum, and I took the kids. And actually, I had a really hard day. Like, the kids screamed all day. Someone on the train told us to be quiet. You know, and I've had a day where I go, oh, that was awful. That was a really hard, awful day.

And he's come home, but it sounds so lovely. It's kind of made him understand maybe what that day felt like for me rather than, I mean, that's a little example. but yeah yeah absolutely what is the best thing about being a parent for you lou do you know what now they're a little bit older i've loved i know i don't sound like i've loved it like i hate being pregnant and i want to leave the house and i do i have genuinely i love being a mum and i love being a parent and i love them when they were little babies like i i quite like the newborn stage i know they don't sleep and and you're all over the place but i quite liked having like they were just they were so portable

You pop them in a pram and off you go And like But like I really like They're eight and ten now And they're like proper little people They have proper personalities And likes and dislikes

And they're getting their own style Like I can't buy their clothes anymore We have to go out together and buy them Because if I buy it They just don't wear it And they've developed completely independently Like their own style And their own personalities

And now it's like going out With two little mates And I really really enjoy that. I really enjoy now going out with them. Don't get me wrong. They still have their moments and fairly recently we left somewhere early and I was like, no I bad's this weekend. This is awful. But, you know, for the most part they are. It is now like taking out two little mates and it's really nice. It's really fun. Yeah, I'm totally with you on that. Mine are similar. Mine are 10 and 13 and I'm totally hearing you on the whole clothes. Yeah.

But like, yeah, just going, even going up for dinner as well, if we get, you know, have a treat in the weekend where we go up for dinner. And you don't necessarily have to go for the kids menu on Pizza Express all the time now. You can actually go somewhere and enjoy a lovely meal. And it's just, yeah, it's just nice being outside of the home actually together. Yeah. And I think when you're right in the early bit, it's hard to see a point where you could just go, do you know what, we'll just go out for tea tonight and you'll just leave the house in the space for about three. minutes and and we've got and it happens without you really realizing it but like they put on their own shoes

I don't need to take a bag yeah I go out with just my phone because I can apple pay it and I don't need anything because they will yeah you don't need a bag or white wipes or you know it just yeah it's it's really lovely it's like two little mates now yeah yeah if you could say one thing to a mum listening now in the car or hiding in the loo probably it's my favorite drink um what would it be that you're doing really, really well and that if it feels like hard work, it's because you're working really hard. It's not because you're not good at it

or that you're failing at it or I'm obviously speaking a lot to myself here because that is, I felt like I was not very good at this for a very long time and that everyone else was doing it better or doing more than me or, you know, just I really struggled for a long time to really have my confidence with it all.

but actually it's much harder work to be a good parent than a bad one. So if you're working really hard and it feels like you're walking through a current going the other way sometimes, it's because you're working really hard and you're trying to do your best. And if you're doing your best, that's all you can do. So just stop feeling bad because there's no point. It doesn't get you anywhere. And have a glass of wine. Yeah.

But it's... Yeah. That can help. Yeah. That's like my default activity as well. Yeah. So, Jaby, should we do our little person parenting question in the week? I think we should.

I think we should turn it over to the little ones and see what Lou has to say about this question. We have got Nala, who's five. Why the parents always whisper when they're talking about wine or chocolate. Because we're hypocrites and we don't want to share. and we've told you you have to share but actually grown-ups aren't good at sharing and it's probably also a little bit like I can't have a hearing we talk about wine again

for like that. No, because you'll repeat it in school because kids are snitches. I have. Yeah. Or chocolate for that matter because they're only allowed a little bit or are you have a lot.

I do that but my body is bigger than yours so if we're doing it proportionally I was like my body can take more chocolate than yours because I'm taller. Yes. Yeah, what are the other kids that we asked the other week wanted to know? Like, why we hide all the snacks as well. Hide all the chocolate. I didn't hide it.

I'm just... Just tell you. Where do you keep your chocolate? I mean, I've just got it in a drawer. I mean, to be honest, I don't... I'm not... Don't be one of these people that's like, I don't buy chocolate. We do buy it, absolutely.

I only don't buy it all the time because I will eat it. And then they get upset the next day when it's gone. You know, and they go, oh, I'll have another bit after tea. And I'm like, no, mommy ate all of that last night. Sorry. Or they go, oh, where's my party bag from so-and-so's party? I'm like, ate that too. I just, it.

So I, you know, we buy it on a rolling basis because if it's in, I'll eat it. Yeah, I'm a bit like that as well. Needs masks and all that. Oh, Lou, Lou, it's been lovely chatting about parenting. Thank you for having me. Good luck with the book. Thank you. Yes, absolutely.

It's been a pleasure. Yeah, because I was going to ask, like, although you answered this in the chat about, you know, how would you feel, how do you want a mum to feel after finishing that final page? But actually, like, J.B, what you were saying, you want all your dad mates to read it because I think it is important for. Yeah, and you touched on it. It's exactly that. It's understanding the perspective. Like, I don't think I'm ever going. certainly not at this stage change from being the non-default parent.

It's just the way our family is to sign. But I think the understanding, yeah, exactly, but the understanding for, obviously, Rob for you and myself for Chloe, about what she's going through, how she's doing it. You know, I do feel like there are definitely things in our relationship where I am more default or am the default, but obviously the bulk of the default parenting is with Chloe. So it's just understanding that perspective and helping to support however I can, you know.

And it's a really interesting perspective to hear as the non-defort parent. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Now, I'm glad. I'm really glad that, you know, you enjoyed it. And as the non-default read it, because obviously it's not had many non-default perspectives yet. I love how we're talking to each other as the defaults and the non-default.

I'm non-default J.B. Welcome. Thanks, Lou. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Grab your copy of lessons from a default parent by Lou Beckett. It's out now in the shops.

Yes, I've got mine already. And if this episode felt painfully familiar, then please do send it to someone who needs to hear it. I am definitely going to take away. The fact that now I know that I'm the non-default parent, I can be... Admit it. Yes, well, I can first be admit it,

but also it be a lot more considerate. to the default parent in our household, which of course is my wonderful wife, Chloe. Yeah, I think it's for us in our house, it's gone through different phases. As the kids have got older, and also we've gone in and out of different jobs and different roles. But I think, yeah, the emotional load probably weighs more on me,

the haircuts, the dental appointments and stuff like that. But communication, I think, like she was saying, how him reading the book helped them sort of balance out. out their resentment. I don't stress. It just happened, doesn't it? But we're all normal. We're all human.

But yes, I think communication is probably key, isn't it? Just need to get better at it. Get involved in the conversation by dropping us an email with your questions and stories at the Netmoms podcast at Netmoms.com and we will share your messages on the Netmonds podcast. You can also get in touch via the NetMonds socials and read all the advice you need on netmonds.com. If you enjoyed this episode, hit follow, leave a review and come join the netmonds community. Oh well, I think that's that's about our time, isn't it Louise?

Yeah, time is up. Right, I'd best go and book that hair appointment, dental appointment, get the washing out and get tea on. Yes, and I'm getting my default parent on right now as we speak. Catch you later. Bye. See ya.