The Netmums Podcast - S18 Ep4: ROXY AND JUDY WILSON: fostering and adoption with Traitors stars

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

This week on The Netmums Podcast, JB and Louise are joined by the most dynamic mother-daughter duo on TV, The Traitors stars Roxy and Judy Wilson. They share their remarkable journey from adoption to motherhood; Roxy opens up about her experiences growing up in foster care and how her relationship with Judy has shaped her life.With Roxy expecting her first child and Judy preparing to be a grandmother for the twelfth time, the conversation covers the joys and challenges of parenting, the importance of stability, and the unconditional love that defines their bond.In this episode:- Roxy reflects on her childhood and the impact of being adopted by Judy.- Insights into the nurturing environment that Judy created for Roxy and her siblings.- The emotional journey of becoming a mother.- A frank discussion about fostering, adoption, and the need for more foster carers in the UK.- Tips for new parents navigating the early days of parenthood.This episode of The Netmums Podcast is brought to you by Aldi Mamia.Read more expert help on Netmums.com and join the conversation on socials @Netmums.JB and Louise also want to hear your parenting stories, questions and dilemmas! So please share them with us at [e-mail] and we can bring you into the conversations that matter on The Netmums Podcast.This podcast is brought to you by Netmums: backed by experts, trusted by parents. Proudly produced by Decibelle Creative / @decibelle_creative

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Welcome to the NetMums podcast where real parenting conversations happen. I'm your host, Louise Burke. And I'm J.B. Gill. Now, we are here to talk all things parenting. And every week, we hear advice from experts and real life stories from guests who are navigating family life in all its forms. And of course, we aim to have honest conversations about what parenting really looks like. I'll go first this week because we're going to be. You're on half term.

Hit me with it. Anybody who has got young children or any child really who's experienced in half term, you know exactly what that chaos is like. I've literally just bundled my kids into the car with Clow to go to the dentist. But the thing that gets me the most is just how much they eat. They don't stop eating. Honestly, I don't know how you feel, Louise, but they've literally eaten at our house and home this week. I'm constantly running up to Audi, doing an online order, Uber eats delivery.

Yeah, I'm totally with you. And also it's like their appetite for smoothies in my house is just like off the scale. And expensive. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know about you, but I'm definitely shipping mine off to my mum later on in the week to hopefully get a bit of time with clothes and get stuff done at home as well. I was also thinking, you know, we've got some very, very special guests on today. I won't spoil a surprise.

I know you're going to reveal who we've got on today, Louise. But it was funny, obviously, because I've had the kids at home for half term, I've caught myself saying things that my parents, like my mom and my dad, used to say to me. And of course, a week like half term is a bit chaotic. We've been trying to do some home renovations and bits and pieces. And so the kids are kind of not left to their own devices, but, you know, you're trying to manage, you know, the amount of screen time. We've talked about that on the pod already.

Things like that, but also getting them involved. making sure they can help, but then there's only so much they can do because you actually want the job to be done properly. And so literally this week, I caught myself saying things like, pack it in, which is what my dad used to say to me all the time.

And things like that, obviously bring back lots of memories. I remember being a child thinking myself, you know, I'm never going to do that. I'm never going to say those things. And by default, you actually end up doing it.

So try and sometimes stop yourself with sentence. But as I say, for me, it does bring back nostalgia. you. But considering our guest today, I went into a bit of a, into a bit of a spiral, definitely went down a rabbit hole yesterday, just thinking about some of the things that, you know, we would have experienced and everybody's, everybody's different. You experienced things as a child growing up and, you know, there are definitely things which, of course, form you in a positive and, you know, you love and you think back on fondly. And then there are also things that you think, you know what,

when I have my kids, I'm definitely not going to do that. Or where I have my kids, or where I have my kids, I'm going to do it slightly differently to that. And, you know, it could be anything. It could be the atmosphere at home. It could be the tone that you set. It could be what you want your kids to carry with them, the voices in their heads, you know, as they get older and go into independent and adult life. You know, because ultimately, whether we realize it or not, so much of that comes from what we experienced, whether at school or at home or anywhere else. Yeah. Sounds like you went down a very... deep bunny hole

I love it, but it is so true. And not every family starts the same way either. But we all have a lot in common as parents. And I think there's a phrase, isn't there, intentional parenting? And I think you can create intentions with the way you parent your kid.

And now I sound really serious. Oh my God. But it is true. And today's guests have one of the most powerful mother and daughter stories we've heard, and they first shared part of it in the most unexpected place on national TV. Yes, we are joined by the Traitors Stars. I'm so excited because my kids would absolutely love the fact that they're on the podcast this week. Mum and daughter duo Roxy Wilson and Judy Wilson. Now, if you didn't watch the popular TV show, then just to fill you in,

Roxy was adopted by Judy at the age of five, and after a tough time spending foster kids, Roxy recently announced that she's soon to become a mum herself and Judy is going to be a grand for the 12th time. Yay! Congratulations, Roxy. Now, they're both here to talk to us about, I mean, everything, everything that they've gone through, everything they've experienced, adoption, fostering. Of course, the TV show, fame, what it's been like, and of course, become an appearance for the first time. It's a absolute pleasure to welcome Roxy and Judy. to the NetMoms podcast.

Hi. Thank you so much. Hey, Roxy and Judy. And big, big congratulations from me. How are you feeling Roxy? Sorry, I'm going to go to Roxy first. But I want to find out how she's doing. Oh, thanks so much.

Yeah, so far, so good. I've actually had quite a nice, easy ride, touch wood. So yeah, feeling great. Oh, it's all gone absolutely swimmingly. So no nausea, no extreme tiredness or anything. I think the first four to six weeks, I was like, this cannot continue. Surely you don't have this for nine months. I felt like I was on a boat and hung over, but that's the worst it's got.

So for two or three weeks, I think I've escaped quite well. Oh, wow. So when you found out you were pregnant, what feelings first came to mind? Where were you when you found out? I know you live with your partner, David. That's right, isn't it, in Amsterdam? But together, like, did you find out together or on your own? And what sort of feelings rose up in you when you first found out that you were pregnant?

Yes, it's quite a funny story, actually. I'd had a bit of a mad weekend with my best friend. He'd been visiting Amsterdam. And so I think it's actually a little bit hungover. But then four days later, I was like, this is, yeah, quite the hangover. And my boyfriend and I have been trying for a baby anyway. So I thought, I'll just do a test. But really not expecting actually to be.

positive. He was at work and I was just, I think I had a half an afternoon off. So I was in the house on my own. And then it was positive. So the actual first thing I did, I sent a picture to my other best friend in the UK and then rang my mum and I was like, oh, you know, like instantly. Because I didn't believe it. So yeah, I sort of checked with the ladies first and you were like, yeah, it looks like it could be. Then I proceeded to do nine more tests. Nine. Nine. Yeah. I just like, I just like honestly.

We were talking about that. In the office the other day saying how many pregnancy tests did you do when you found out you're pregnant? I did one. And I was the only one who did one. Everyone else was like, oh, I did two. I did three. I did four. I was like, do people do this?

But you did nine. Yeah, because the digital ones are Dutch. And I was like, is this the Dutch word for pregnant? Oh, la la, so I was just like, you know, couldn't have checked more. And then I was like, okay, I think I can safely say yes. It's positive. So then I rang my boyfriend at work. I had in mind actually to wait until they came home,

doing it all nice, blah, blah, blah, but then I was just like, I'm pregnant. The middle of his day, so I thought it's nice. And just pure excitement or any mix with any nerves? Yeah, pure excitement. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I do nerves for some reason. I mean, maybe I'll get nervous

when I realise how big I am and that baby's got to come out. But yeah, I'm pretty chill. What was Grandma Judy's reaction on the other end of the phone when you, I'm imagining a scream, a big scream. Yes, a big scream and lots of facial expressions which I screenshotted her. So yeah, it was a really nice reaction. She's had plenty of practice. Yeah, plenty.

Yeah, she's used to it by now. So this is the 12th grandchild for you, Judy. Is that right? Congratulations. It is. Thank you. It's just, it's getting bigger and bigger. But you know what?

It's incredible. It's like a football team. I love it. Absolutely love it. I saw on Instagram. Roxie that David had been preparing the crib and the nappy table. Oh my God, you guys are prepared, right? Were you that prepared, J.B?

When Chloe was. To be fair, I was. I'm a studier. So I'm the sort of person who wants to read up on things. And my mum comes from a medical profession as well. So, you know, for me, little things like understanding how to breastfeed and how to assist this stuff like that, you know, I mean, it's not normally the male role. you know, certainly not in a heterosexual relationship, but, you know, for me, it was, yeah, it was massive.

I needed to understand, needed to know. And, you know, I knew what Chloe really wanted to achieve and what she wanted to, you know, to happen and how she wanted to mother. So for me, it was all about assisting as much as possible. And like you say, Louise, I think, from what I've heard anyway, I think David seems to be similar. You know, you guys are definitely a bit of a team. Tell us, Roxy, what's David like? What else has he been doing? Yeah, so

He's so funny He When we got the push chair He wanted to take it around the lake That we live opposite Just to have a walk with it And take it To various supermarkets

So I'm like This This man needs to slow down But yeah He's just so excited And yeah It's going to be the best dad ever I can just tell already

So yeah I've not done much myself Because I'm not the most organised So he's the organised one. Is it particularly significant to you that you're having a baby girl? Oh, yeah, I think so. I think I had a feeling, but a feeling is a feeling you don't actually know. But we would have been happy with any.

But I think there's just something so special about a little girl and seeing David with a daughter. I don't know, yeah, it just feels slightly different. Yeah. Would you say that you feel ready? No, no, no, no, no, no at all. Just going to wing it and hope for the best. Well, I would just say to you, you know, certainly from the birth pan experience.

And we, you know, Chloe had probably similar to you, a very, very good, if I can say that, pregnancy. She didn't have any norshar, you know, no, other than obviously the physical feelings. Like she didn't really have anything, you know, that was too sort of negative. And, you know, we went into that first pregnant, well, that first birth, should I say, expecting the birth, be just the same. And that's not to say, I'm sure yours will be as exactly as you want it to be. But we didn't really prepare for every eventuality. And so for me, I think one of the best pieces of advice that I would give to someone who's expecting is have your plan, map out what you want and stick to that, but also be prepared for the other possibilities because we ended up going

to an emergency cesarean and it took us by surprise. You know, we definitely weren't prepared. And it was fine because Ace is actually a really first born Ace is actually a really good baby but you know it could have been completely the opposite of that so that's that's my little piece of advice for the two of you. Thank you very much.

It's standard, sorry standard for a home ber in the Netherlands. Oh, is it? Just a normal thing is there's a home birth. Love me. And that's what you're going to do. Home birth? Wow. Yes. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have optimal medical insurance to the maximums. hospital, I'll be there. But I'm just embracing the Dutch culture. Yes.

Yeah. Well, some people just speak about home birds as like being purely magical, don't they? Yeah. Yeah. I'll be the judge of that. No. Judy, you revealed the baby news on this morning. Yes.

On national TV. I did. Was that, when I read that, was that an over-excited grandma, Roxy? Blotting it, letting the cat out of the bag on. TV a bit too soon? I did. No, I didn't. I did.

I did. I know, Roxie's life. I thought, you got the permission. Yeah. I got the permission and yeah, I said it. But she did put her post on her Instagram. So, am I allowed to just say it?

And she went, yes, mother. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. And Judy, what kind of advice have you been giving Roxy as a, as a new mum to be?

Don't do it. What a kid. Don't believe it. Advice. I think the thing is, Roxy's such a caring person and she's one of them outdoor people. She likes to be out and kids out in nature and things like that,

which is incredible to do. But I don't know. I just think, just be the person she is. She's just an amazing person. So I know she's going to be an amazing mum, and I'm really proud of her. So I just can't wait because this is going to be a beautiful baby.

I didn't say what it was. Yeah, I was sitting like, is she going to do it? That little bit extra. Gender's fine. You're happy to share. So Roxy, you've spoken openly about your early years. Obviously, we saw you on traitors. We saw the two of you on traitors.

Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Really. Every minute of the series. Absolutely addicted my whole family around the, around the TV episode. And you've spoken very openly about your personal story

of being fostered from 18 months and moving from, or you've said pillar to post, I think there are your words. But it was probably what, six or seven families, did you say, you were fostered by in those early years? So that's quite a lot of instability

for a small child. And then until you got adopted by Judy when you were five. Some reports say five, some reports say six. Yeah, it's a mixing between me and I always said six, but I think it's about five. When now with yourself pregnant and looking ahead with a future with your own child, your own daughter, when you look back now at your experience, what sort of feelings come up?

I think it's strange because the old do you get and when you have your own child, all you want for that child is stability, is love, is the best. possible chance in life. So then when you look back at your own childhood, it actually sinks in a little bit more how crazy it was, if that makes sense. And yeah, when I do reflect, I mean,

it's definitely kind of shown me what I don't want my child to go through. But it does make me sit and think, actually, my childhood was a lot more tricky, maybe I'd even give any credit to for myself. So you're, So you're sort of very mindful about providing security to your daughter. And are there any sort of like, we talked about this in our intro, sort of parenting with intention.

And obviously you've had the experience you've had. And what sort of intentions do you lay out in your parenting journey ahead? I don't know whether you've had a chance to think about it yet because obviously you've not actually been birth yet. But are there things bearing in mind your experience that you're, you're intending to create in or the childhood that you want to give your child. If you've got any thoughts around that, yeah. Yeah, it's a really good question actually because David and I have been discussing this quite a lot because we think the intention also has to come from both the parents

and sort of be an agreement and a collective way of how you're going to parent. So our main things are just safety, love and showing affection. and what I've experienced a bit of, I don't know how I say, over-discipline, let's say, in some of the foster carers. So also striking a balance of discipline and making sure they're on the right track, but not being sort of, you know, too forceful in that manner. So, yeah, so we've discussed this all the time

because there's nothing perfect, but we do have particular sort of ways that we want to approach things for sure. Yeah, I think it's really important to have boundaries because, you know, like you say, over-discipline doesn't always work, especially if you've got very strong-world children, which ultimately we want.

We want children who are going to be strong. You want to lead, you want to take a, you know, I mean, who want to, I guess, go on to become the pillars of our society. But at the same time that, you know, it's not always beneficial to be over-disciplinarian, should I say. Boundaries are much more important, you know.

And I think, you know, that certainly from what I hear, what I read, you know, Judy, you definitely had that within the house. And you would have needed to with 12 grandchildren, but you also spoken about having to make, you know, the heartbreaking decision to adopt one sister and not the other, which I just, I mean, how you managed to do that, I don't know, such an enormous emotional weight on you. How did you navigate that as a mom? I think it's, it's, Well, yes, it's quite hard. I mean, obviously, I had three boys, and then obviously Roxy came into our lives. But Roxy was with her sister from the early years, and then they had to separate a sister, siblings, had to be separated.

So, yeah, when I went along, obviously, and I saw Roxy, and I knew that she had a sister. But for me, I had to think of my boys, because obviously it's a big thing in a child coming to your home. because, you know, that could disrupt all your family, family life. So it was hard. And yes, I did choose Roxy. But it's hard. And then when you're in that moment, you've got to do the right decision for you and your family. So that's what I did.

I picked Roxy. I can imagine it must be a big balancing act ultimately because there's so many different factors to take in. Of course, you're doing, on the one hand, you're doing an amazing thing for an individual who, you know, who really need it and then at the same time you've got a responsibility to what you already have. Roxy's described you as being an amazing woman on TV and I totally can believe that. But how does it make you feel when you hear Roxy talk about you both when during traitors and, you know, in the press after traitors. She spoke so positively about you and the things, the opportunity that you gave her and her life.

How does that make you feel? Wow, it's quite moving, actually. I mean, I don't know if you saw the bit when we did the after show. And obviously, that first time I'd seen that, what Roxy had said. And I had a tear, and I'm not a cryer. I'm not a cry. I had a tear because I just, you know, because I'm just mum. I'm just, you know, me just bringing up a family like everybody else.

You're not, your amazing woman, mom. That's who you are. And now amazing grand. Yeah. I don't, you know, I'm just, I'm just me. end at day is I'm the person who just wants to make sure, you know, all my family are happy and loved and care for. And that's, that's all that I did. But when I saw it, yes, it did bring a tear to me eye. And I'm so proud. I mean, it's quite touching that. She speaks about me in

that way because I'm just mum, you know. I'm, yeah. Well, not to Roxy. Now you're going to be a mum, Roxy. Does it, has it changed how you view your mum? Yeah, I think that's one of the more sort of poignant things actually in all of this. You know, you love your mum and all these things when you're having your own child. You just start to think about what your mum's done for you, the sacrifices mum's make. It all starts to, I don't know, just hit a little different, I guess. And it deepens that appreciation for mum and also other moms. My friends who had children, you know, younger or years ago, I just now kind of see, wow, moms are even more special than I ever thought before. And I already thought they were super special.

Yeah. Just a reminder, this episode of the NetMums podcast is brought to you by Aldi Mammaia. As well as their award-winning nappies, we give their Mammaia wipes hard recommended netmums. They are a parenting essential. They're plastic-free, gentle enough to use from birth and kind on sensitive newborn skin. Perfect for nappie changers and all the other unexpected messes no one warns you about. Head to your nearest Aldi Store to explore the full Mammaia range. Well, Roxy, you also said in the roundtable that, you know, you were once made to feel like you wouldn't amount to anything.

And then of course, your, you know, your lived experience, once you found Judy, was very, very different to that because you have amounted to lots of things and you're doing an amazing job. And now, of course, you're going to go on to become a mother. So what was it that Julie did differently that changed that belief in yourself? I think she just gave me the self-confidence. And she never threatened me like I was any different to any of the child out there. And I think that's a huge difference. So when you have an unusual childhood or just not within whatever the normal is, people give you a label.

They think you're going to be this or that. But mum was just like anyone else. You don't need extra support or university because you've been adopted. You don't need an extra laptop. You know, like these small things. And it's great that there's all this support. but actually that can work against you in a sense. Like you just need to be trekked as a normal, normal individual with a regular childhood.

And that just gives you the confidence to realise, yes, I am normal. I don't need to become the label that's attached to me. I can just be free. Yeah, yeah. And do you find yourself thinking now about yourself as a child and I guess what you needed most then? And I guess applying it now forward effectively, for when your own children get to that stage? Yeah, definitely.

I think one of the main things that I needed, and I guess all children need, but it could be also an individual thing, was just love and hugs and a bit of reaffirmation of who I am. And again, that freedom to be individual and not put in a box. So I think they're all things that will 100% apply to a child,

even when she's 30, I'll still be playing her with hugs and kisses and be overbearing. But I think that's the way I'll be. No, I'm with you. I say exactly the same thing. I drop the kids up at school. Me too. And I'm like, you are never not getting a kiss out of this car.

Yeah. My 13-year-old now just puts her crown of her head down for me to kiss. Yeah. I can imagine it. And I go, you've got to realize, sweetheart. I'm going to be kissing you until you're 30 years old, babe. Yeah. So true.

These kisses aren't going to stop. I think it's really impressive that both of you actually post-traders have been using your profile to raise awareness around fostering and adoption the system in this country because it does need huge improvement. We saw it in the news the other week about the decline in the last decade. I think it's 12% decline in the number of foster carers in the UK. and we know how important foster care homes are for a lot, a lot of children. Why does it feel, obviously there is the decline there. We know the system's broken, but why do you feel so strongly to be involved in raising this awareness? I'm going to ask Judy.

Well, I mean, there's so many children out there that at disadvantage, they just need a home, just to, you know, start them off on the, the path of life, basically. And because we've not got many foster carers, it's just so hard. And these kids are just, you know, getting lost in the system. And it's just sad. So we just need to all sort of like come together and try and get some more foster carers to, you know, help the kids alone.

But it's hard because people always think that foster care being a foster care is hard and, you know, they don't think the criteria of it. But, you know, we keep saying is come to us. we'll make sure that we'll put you through what you need, your support and everything like that. And at the end of day is you are offering a child home and, you know, helping that child grow. Because when these children come, they just come,

they come with a story. And this story is it slowly, as they get come in your home, it slowly unwinds and things sort of come out. And you're just nurturing them, you're just helping them. You're just going to be there all the time and give plenty of reassurance that at end of the day, the day is you're not going nowhere, you're there to support them. And that's, it's quite daunting for young children to come in and, you know, they don't know anybody. They're in a new home,

new environment, and they're scared, you know, but also we still miss and love their family. So it's quite, you know, children don't have to be born, you know, but we just need to be there to support them and this is what me and Roxy are trying to promote. We just need some more foster care just to come forward. I can understand how some people might feel nervous about doing it though, because like you say, these children come with stories, sadly, and those stories can unravel. If someone's thinking about it, what would be your advice to sort of encourage them to try it out? Oh, I would just say, get some more, get some information, you know, make contact to your local authority,

get some information, and then somebody will come out. and talk to you about fostering. And, you know, and if it's for you, it's fine. But if it's not, that's fine also. So it's just taking that step. And a lot of people don't take that step. But trust me, if you take that step, it just, it changes your life as well because you're just giving.

And that's the best, you know, to see a kid's smile on their faces is incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things that I've always thought about because, you know, prior to even having children, Chloe and I talked about, you know, how would fostering look? And like you saying, it's one of those things that you're very daunted because you know the impact. Probably similar to you, Judy, when you first started out.

You know the impact that it potentially could have on your family. And I guess there's lots of stereotypes around, I don't know, I suppose, the perceived negativity. Because it's not negative, but potentially there might, you know, especially if you've got a child who's gone for a very, very difficult upbringing. And also having the tools to be able to do with that. It's not so much the fact that the child is like that. But also, you know, it's very difficult sometimes. And certainly, you know, if you've never had that.

experience personally as a parent or, you know, as an adult, you know, to be able to handle some of those sort of soft, you know, those things softly that need to be dealt with and need to be handled in order to allow a child who's perhaps experienced that to flourish. So what would you say makes, I suppose, what are the good qualities of a foster Kira? Is it about being, you know, brilliant and, you know, perfect or whatever or, you know, is there something else? No, it's not about, it's not about being brilliant or perfect. At end at day, it's just about you being there for that child and, you know, open your heart up to that child and help that child develop. So, no, you don't have to have a big house.

You don't have to have plenty money. It's not about that. It's about the love that you can give that child. So, you know, that's why I always say, just take that step. I'm interested following on from that, actually, asking you, Roxy, like having been, you know, experienced the foster care. homes and then your mum's home. What could you, is there something just like a little nugget or a little memory that you had when you arrived at your mum's home or or in the first sort of year in your mum's home where you were like, yeah, this feels like home now. Yeah. And I speak about

this quite a lot because it's the, the thing, if you will. Because when I moved, when I went to I wasn't supposed to be staying from that point, but the foster care just essentially didn't want me back because I had a cold. I heard, yeah. They were just like, leave her there. So I just, that was mad, really. Yeah. Weird. Yeah.

Oh, my geez. Yeah. So, and I think because I wasn't supposed to be staying, that was just like, whoa, a big surprise. Yeah. But that night, I mean, it was a bit, I can imagine mom was up in arms. I was just like, la, la, la, la, I'm here now to stay. I didn't really. That's it.

Move up on the sofa. My mom was a bit like, yeah, I was just like, typical me, very chill. But mum, obviously, she was sorting out the dynamics of the bedroom. So my three brothers had their rooms, but they moved into one bedroom so that I could have nice space as a girl. So she was doing all those things. And then that evening she'd sat down with me and said, look, in this family, we say, love you every night before we go to bed. This is why, this is what it means, etc.

And I never had heard someone say, love you. to me before because a lot of the foster care used to say save you kisses and your cuddles and your love for you forever family. So hearing that and then thinking, oh, this is like what a family does and how they behave and how they feel for each other. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm good here, this is the one.

And I guess in quite an unconditional way as well, rather than like that patter of words that you said in the foster families. Rather than sort of maybe a transactional feel to love or just a hug because it's needed. It was more just it's the done thing and it's because it's something you can't put into words. It's just what we do because we feel a certain way. Yeah.

You can tell that the two of you, like you could tell on Traitors, the strong bond between the two of you, a real sort of strong mother-daughter bond. But I want to know, like even now as you're an adult and now having a baby for your own, Are you, do you still lean on your mom a lot in life? Do you go for her for all the advice? Have you been on the phone or WhatsApp in like bits about the pregnancy? Do you still have that like sort of, I was going to say friendship, relationship, but it is like a friendship.

Yeah, that won't go anywhere. I mean, we speak every day. I must video, yesterday I think I video timed a WhatsApp video or whatever like five times. And I was like, I bet you're sick of hearing from me. So I might live in the Netherlands, but I might as well live in. house still. It's ongoing. Tell her all the lowdown of me and my friends. Yeah, she knows a bit too much probably at times, to be fair. I was going to say, what's a cheeky question? What's the last WhatsApp message you sent your mum?

Oh, good one. It was just before this call saying, let's have a great whole love you. Yes, she did. I see you still pass those love yous even now, like not just for bedtime. Yeah. The messages before the technical stuff are not. tell you that because we were getting stressed with each other. Exactly.

It ended well. Expletives in the WhatsApp messages. It was pretending nicely. Speaking of traitors, do you guys think that your time on the show strengthened your bond? I mean, it sounds like you already said, you know, you've got a very, very strong bond.

But do you think that time strengthened it in any way? I think for me is getting on the traitors, and doing it with Roxy was, well, mind-blowing. But the thing is, when we were there, you know, we had a great plan that we were going to go in and say, you know, you come from here and I come from there. And as soon as I saw her, she went, I'm from Donny, and I thought,

oh, I thought we rehearsed that you were somewhere else from somewhere else. So she just flirts out. You were from Nottingham. You were from somewhere else. So I had to backtrack a bit. And then first day she called me mum. And this guy said, one of the lads, obviously, we just met, said, do you just called your mum?

I went, yeah, and Jessie's just called my mum as well. I'm thinking, oh, I need to stay away from her. Oh, God. And then later on, later on in the boat, mum, mum. But nobody heard that. Oh, gosh. Oh, God. It's no secret that I'm not strategic.

No, you know, I think it's pretty clear that I wasn't the best at the actual game, but I had a great time. Look, you did a good inning. in that game. How did it feel? Because poor Judy, I know you were out and murdered pretty quickly. It was scared of me, I think. But how did you feel watching the rest of the show with Roxy? Were you super proud? Oh God. Yeah. Unbelievable

because, I mean, she did really, really well. She just got the two last ones wrong. But she did really well. I'm chatting at the screen saying, Roxy, open your eyes. But the Challenges, I was so proud, because she's so good at challenges. I mean, if I had a stayed and do that last one, I'd have never done it. But Roxy would have loved it.

But, yeah, it's loved to see her grow and be a self. And when I left, I said, you know, to myself, it's her time to shine. And shine, she did. So, yeah, it would be. I'm so proud. And a double whammy now, because now she's having a baby, another grandchild for you. She was double proud. Yeah, she was trying for quite a while.

And I think when she actually relaxed and, you know, took time to herself, which she never does, then obviously she's going to become a mum. Yeah. And have you been like buying all the baby grows and M&S and all the rest of it? The hardest bit is for me is it's trying to ship it all to Netherlands. It's a nightmare. Trust me, it's a nightmare. I send her things and she never gets them.

Never ever gets some. You'd have to move in. You'd have to move in in a couple of months' time. Oh, I'd love to move. with what she'd say, no. Don't say it, J.B. Don't say it. I was going to say it's not an Airbnb.

How do you feel about having a better mother's help? They love each other so much these two. Yeah. She's very strong-minded. A couple of days is enough. I get it. I have to say, when I had my first, my mom and dad came and stayed with us for a week. and I think my husband at the time

I was a bit like oh this is a bit you know close for comfort but but it allowed us just to focus on the baby and they would like do the food shopping

or do the washing and they would the sort of you know the help around the house and it just allowed us for the first week just to focus on the baby

and you know that sort of first magical moment when you're at home which always feels a bit like a parallel universe so actually rocks I wouldn't say no just yet.

She doesn't need me because she's got. Louise, I'll let you into a little secret. Yeah, because in the Netherlands you get. It's called a, I won't say the Dutch word actually. It's a lady that comes after the birth for 10 days, over to eight hours a day. And they will do shopping, the washing, everything so that you bond with baby.

So, I mean, I'm sure my mom would do a job. We need to move. But we need to change the system here. Our systems are just not made for parents, are they? That is so valuable, honestly. That's what, because that is exactly what I'm talking about. That first built your home. And you feel like you've moved into a parallel universe

because you've created this human and you can't quite get your head around it. But it's the most amazing, amazing moment. And yeah, for you just to. sort of recuperate after the birth as well. And know that there's that support there. We are, it does, yeah, it does make me a bit cross about this country. We've got it wrong, haven't we? We've got it wrong.

No, we'll say no more, hey, but I'm happy to be in Amsterdam. I was going to say, so no plans to move back home to Doncaster then. Oh, no, no, no. And a slightly more serious conversation before we, close the chat. I just want, just out of curiosity, and it is a bit of a personal one, so feel free to ignore it if you prefer. But having been through your journey with foster care, adoption, and obviously now you're having your own baby, but would you ever be open to adopting or foster caring yourself, Roxy? It's a good question and it's a question I get asked a lot actually,

which, yeah, I don't find any surprises. I think people always just maybe think you would. And my honest answer is I don't know because for me my priority given my sort of background was always to have my own child and the biological birth or the experience of course that's happening now so perhaps the next steps because I'm aware that kids need help support I think given my experiences I could offer them a lot but I am like most other people might be around adoption it's really daunting and you don't know the challenges that the child might come with you don't know how that might impact your family dynamic so I'm I'm on the fence right now, but never say never.

Yeah. That's what I can say. Well, you're right at the beginning of your sort of motherhood journey, I guess, aren't you? Yeah. You've got to see where it all takes you. Yeah, and I think you have to establish your family as well, especially because you've started it now.

And then it gives you the freedom to open that up eventually. Yeah. This is it. Best of both worlds, potentially. Yeah, I think you're going to be an amazing mom. Yes, indeed. Oh, it's really nice. Thank you so much.

You've had all the experiences. So to finish with, we're just going to end with our parenting question of the week from a small person. If money comes from the bank, why don't we just get more? If money comes from the bank, why don't we just get more? So, well, that's right? Great question. Great question. Do you, do you, do you, do you, do you?

you worry about like sort of cost of living and things like that, Roxy. Now you're sort of on your mother journey and like, because it's the kids are bloody expensive, right? Yeah. Do you know what it is? I think I'm worried that my priorities are shifting from new bags and shoes to nappies. I mean, it's what it is. But I'm like, oh, damn.

But no, it is quite tough economically. And I think everyone has sort of challenges sometimes financially. But we have a baby. be fun and we've been really, really good in just making sure that there's some foundations there and maybe a little bit for me so I can still get my shoes and bags. The thing, the truth is, like, your handbag becomes the nappy bag, basically. I know. I mean, I see another thing. I've got to say some of the nappy bags on the market now compared to when I had my first baby, like, they were quite sort of practical bags when I

have mine. And now they're these beautiful, like, sort of designer-esque leather, sort of, like, Like a designer handbag, but, you know, shove a bottle and a nappy and some wet wipes in. I'll take the nappy bag out on my first night out after baby's born, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, last piece of advice from me as well, Roxy. Just remember that you and David are a team. It began with you.

No matter how tense those first few days get, you're on the same side. I'll do my best. my very best to keep that in mind. I have to say though, like, I remember when we first had our kid, and this isn't advice, but it's just something to bear in mind, my husband literally afterwards, he was, I think he was just like, oh my God, you women are amazing. Like, you've literally created a child, like, what do us men? He was like, what do us men do? Like, you women, like, create humans and they give birth to them and then keep them alive, right? If you choose to.

breastfeed, you know, you're actually just like being so self-sufficient. But I think, I don't know, J.B., but like, yeah, my husband was a bit like, wow, like observing that. He was just like, that is incredible. So I always say as women are queens, right? Oh, definitely queens. And we should be treated like a queen. Yeah. Well, I just say, I already had a head start with that because my mom was a nurse, so I already knew she was a queen and women are queen. So, yeah, for me, it was just enhancing the Queendom. Yeah. And before the baby arrives, enjoy everything.

Enjoy those nights on the sofa, those dinner piece where you can actually finish a hot meal and a hot cup of tea. Enjoy all of it. Yeah. I'm making the most of it because I know it's all going to be upside down and inside out very soon. So enjoy it. Amazing.

Congratulations to both of you once again. Thank you. I've enjoyed this. It's been amazing. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Roxy, Judy, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today

and all the gossip about new babies and things like that. I love it. It's been emotional, inspiring and such an important conversation. Yes, it really has. And if any of you have missed the traitors, which I know is criminal, but we'll forgive you, you can catch Roxy and Judy on the Traders UK on BBC I. I player. And you'll also see them continuing their work.

raising valuable awareness around fostering and adoption. Yeah, and you can obviously track Rox's bump growing on Instagram as well. So excited. You can read more expert advice at netmums.com and across our socials. And if you're finding the Netmonds podcast useful and supportive, please hit follow, leave a review and join our community because real parenting conversations happen right here. Isn't that right, J.B?

Yes, indeed. Oh, and drop us an email as well to share your parenting questions, stories and dialogue. Lemmas, we would love to hear from you. Yeah, so until the next time, thanks to listen, everyone. Thanks a lot. See you next week. See ya. Bye.