The Netmums Podcast - S19 Ep8: CHARLOTTE STIRLING-REED: How to feed the family this summer and healthy eating without the pressure

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Summer holidays are brilliant... until someone says, ‘I’m hungrrrry’ for the fifth time before 11am.In this episode of The Netmums Podcast, JB Gill and Louise Burke are joined by leading baby and child nutritionist Charlotte Stirling-Reed to tackle one of parents' biggest summer challenges: feeding the family without the guilt.From endless snack requests and picnic planning to heatwave eating habits, holiday treats and the pressure to get it ‘right’, Charlotte shares practical, reassuring advice to help parents take the stress out of mealtimes. She explains why one ice cream, or even one whole summer, won't define your child's relationship with food, why healthy eating is built over days, weeks, months and years, and how small, consistent habits matter far more than perfection.Charlotte also explores why the first 1,000 days of a child's life are so important, shares balanced advice following the BBC Panorama investigation into the safety of baby food pouches, and offers realistic, affordable tips for busy families. Plus, if you're wondering whether you've missed the boat with older children, she explains why it's never too late to build healthier eating habits.In this episode: Why children seem hungry all the time during the summer holidays Healthy picnic ideas and budget-friendly snacks for days out Should parents feel guilty about daily ice creams? How to encourage healthy eating without creating pressure or guilt Why the first 1,000 days matter and what that means in real life Baby food pouches, convenience foods and making informed choices without judgement Can you improve your child's eating habits if they're older? Find out more about Charlotte's work atwww.srnutrition.co.uk and discover her books How to Wean Your Baby, How to Feed Your Toddler, How to Feed Your Family and The Ultimate Weaning & Toddler Cookbook.Read more trusted parenting advice at Netmums and join the conversation on social @Netmums.JB and Louise would love to hear your parenting stories, questions and dilemmas. Email [e-mail] and you could feature in a future episode.The Netmums Podcast is brought to you by Netmums – trusted by parents, backed by experts.Prefer to watch? Full episodes are available on the Netmums YouTube channel.This episode has been produced by Decibelle Creative.

Hello and welcome to the Net Mums podcast where real parenting conversations happen. I am J.B. Gill. And I'm Louise Burke from Netmums. Well, the school holidays are officially here, which is lovely, baby, until you realise you're now responsible for planning six weeks of entertainment and producing, I don't know what, 147 meals and snacks before September. Honestly, Jay, answer this for me. How are the kids hungry all the time? Well, firstly, I love the fact that you counted out all the meals and snacks. And multiply it by 10 for sure.

Honestly, I have no idea. It's like they finish school and then the hunger button gets pressed. And it's continually depressed until you get to September. I don't understand how they get the appetite. We're very honest with you. Today is going to be very exciting. This is definitely where you want to be. If you are that parent as well who's wondering what's for lunch and the kids are constantly badgering for food, then keep listening.

Yeah, I know. And also, I think as well with it, but can I just add, I just want to add something that is important, the heat. The heat is so important and feeding our kids during this heat. I don't know about yours, but mine just ended up on some ice cream diet, which probably not something our next guest is going to have good things to say about. Well, we are joined by someone who has helped thousands of parents feel much more confident about feeding their children. In her own right, she's a leading baby and child nutritionist. She's a bestselling author. She's written four parenting books, I think, from how to wean your baby all the way through to Todd Device. And of course, feeding the family as well. She's a passionate advocate for giving children a healthier start in life.

And of course, she's a netmum's regular. So welcome, Charlotte Sterling-Reed. Welcome, Charlotte. I'm so excited to be here, guys. Thank you for having me on. Oh, that's an absolute pleasure. This is nice because it almost feels like having a friend on the podcast. I know.

I'm like thinking that. It's really. Maybe you're going to have to shut me and Louise up. Well, normally it's, normally Jay's that going, oh, we've met so many times and this is friend. And now I get a chance. No, I love that. Yes. No, it's going to be great.

And I think it's a topic that I know, obviously, Charlie, you've got lots to talk about. but we all have something in common because we can all relate to it, can't we? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to kick this off, Charlotte. Why does feeding your family feel like a full-time job during the summer holidays? I say during the summer holidays, actually all year round. But I know it intensifies in the summer holidays and that's where we're at at the moment. Why does it feel such an overwhelming job for parents now?

I think that feeding kids feels a huge job. job anyway, like we say, because, you know, when you think about it, it's three meals a day every single day. It's, you know, quite often a couple of snacks in between there as well. There's multiple opportunities every single day when you need to feed your family. And when you are working or overtired or don't know what to do, it's really all consuming. And I think if you add on to that things like allergies or children who refuse food or who are a bit more, you know, cautious with their eating, it becomes something that us is. parents we think about all the time. Add on to that the fact that we see social media and media

and we see all these things about what we shouldn't, shouldn't do and we see the kind of perfect way to feed your child and all the things we're doing wrong. And again, it consumes our brains. So add on to that the summer holidays where the kids are out of routine. They're like we've already said, they're constantly asking for food or snacks where their eating habits are, let's be honest, not quite normal. You know, it might be a little bit flex. Few more ice feet have been there. And like I say, really out of routine, kids are thinking about food.

Maybe they're a bit bored. Maybe there's less breakfast at the day. So it becomes honestly all consuming. And I think as parents, we take that on as us doing something wrong, us failing, us needing to figure it all out. And sometimes it's about stepping back and going, do you know what, this is really chaotic environment. It's chaotic for them.

It's chaotic for us. We don't need to have it all figured out. Let's just see where we get to because the pressure on us as parents is enormous, isn't it? Yeah. I'm glad you admit that as well, because you were a mum of two as well, two small kids. But ultimately, we all want our kids to be healthy, right? And ultimately, we want them to enjoy food because who doesn't enjoy food? It's delicious. But the mix of the sort of, you know, the reduced bandwidth, juggling jobs, juggling school runs. even the holiday camps out of routine in the summer holidays.

And then add to that, like the cost of everything going up. Yes. And, you know, I've done it before where I've hovered over some like beef mints, you know, whether I put it in my basket or not. Because actually it's like five pounds for 500 grams. It's like nuts. And it didn't used to be. So there is a lot of pressure.

So do we, do you think we're eating more in the summer holidays? I think, I mean, I've just been talking about this. I think the snacking is actually what drives parents mad. I think it really does. There's a lot of asking for it. And obviously that has a knock on effect to meal times. If kids are snacking more, they don't have an appetite for meal times. And then you have this vicious cycle where parents are going,

oh, I've got to produce a really nice healthy milk because they've been snacking all day. And then they give them this nice healthy meal and then healthy milk refuse. And then they think, oh, God, I've failed again. But one thing I want to say, to what you were just saying, Luisa, is that it's so important for parents to remember, yes, we do want our children to be eating well. We want them to love food.

That doesn't come in one meal. That doesn't come in six weeks. That comes with months and years of helping children to build a relationship with food, which I know is easier said than done. But I think we need to take that pressure off of ourselves and think this is a summer holiday. Yes, it's not going to be perfect.

But whose diet is perfect? No, not mine, you know, and I'm a nutritionist. So nobody's is perfect. We must take that pressure off ourselves. I'm not saying forget about it and just offer them whatever. I'm not saying that. I'm saying take the pressure off. Healthy eating is not going to be built in this summer holiday.

And I, you know, my kids, when we go out, when we eat out, when we're at friends' houses, when we have parties, when we go for picnics, whatever we do, I never worry about what my kids eat. And sometimes people look at me like, are you okay with them? eating that. They've eaten nothing else. Do you feel like the beady eyes are on you sometimes? Like, oh my God, the expert nutritionist just let her kid have ice cream. There was one time when my daughter was at a birthday party

and she was quite young at the time but she just kind of started getting her taste of party food and party. And I remember her being at a table and eating honestly far too much but obviously I was going, not going to say anything and someone said to me, well, I'm not going to let you feed my child. And I was thinking, okay, because if they don't glass the context, when I'm out with my kids, I am not micromanaging what they eat. I'm not even thinking about what they eat.

I'm thinking about their experience, their enjoyment, how they appreciate food. And what I'm doing is I'm modelling. And I'm also editing maybe what I might give them a home that evening based on what they've eaten that day, surreptitiously. So I don't even know about doing that. But, you know, try and take that pressure off because honestly, we put so much on ourselves.

Well, I think that's the biggest thing. And I think a lot of parents will be sort of drawing the parallels to school. Because of course, they've just spent the bulk of, what, nine months or whatever it is, you know, pretty much at school within that sort of routine. Yes, there's been holidays sort of, you know, various different periods throughout that. But when you think, okay, they go to school, you give them breakfast before, they go usually. And, you know, they then have their day. They have their lunch. Maybe they have the break time or whatever. They might have a couple of snacks, a bit of fruit in my kid's school anyway. But they don't eat in the same way that you, you know, that you sort of feel. like they eat as soon as they come home and it's a holiday. Is that change in, I suppose, that maybe their appetite because they're less active or less in that routine or is it simply boredom? I mean, I think it varies from child to child. I think for some kids, maybe at school, they don't feel maybe they're not getting enough or maybe it's too much or maybe they don't like the food. But actually, for me, that routine is really helpful. I would say one of the key things from right from babyhood, right up until older children, one key thing is routine.

If you can get them into routine, they start to understand their own body clock. They start to understand when they're hungry, when they're full, when they need a top-up. Whereas once we get to summer holidays and that routine goes, they've got no way, whether they're hungry or full or. And so I think the lack of routine is really important. And although, you know, for most of us,

that is going to happen during the holiday. Because they might lie in and not have breakfast. Yeah. We're rushing out the door. We're going to a play park all day and there's no opportunity to sit down and eat. We're going to a friend's party and they've packed that. You know, so many different reasons. I think the more that you can try and establish some kind of routine around eating,

it doesn't have to be certain times, just some kind of establishment of maybe like we have breakfast around here and lunch around here. That can really help with their appetite control. But I also do think, J.B., as you say, I think boredom is a huge. huge amounts of play or just, you know, habits. What are their normal habits? Maybe they're in the kitchen a lot more and they're just finding the habit. So I think it's a variety.

And I think, you know, there's a lot of children the other way as well who, in this heat, out of routine, grazing on more foods, their appetites actually can take a big dip. So I think it does work both ways. Well, I know my appetite dips a little bit when it's really hot. I don't want to make massacini spaghetti bolognays when it's like a bird. So let's talk about heat waves because obviously we had a mohusive heat wave the other week. And no doubt we're heading for another one sometime soon and in the future because I think that's our norm now. I know. That's what we've been thinking as well.

So we touched on guilt a second ago. I know I felt guilty, hands up, giving my kids, although they loved the ice cream every day during that week of heat wave when the school closures. I was a bit like, what are you doing, Louise? What are you doing, Louise? And I'm not going to, I'll admit, sometimes it was two ice creams in one day. Because we were kind of doing what we had to do to get through it. All of us, we were all melting. Yeah.

In your expert opinion, how bad is it having an ice cream a day? Make me feel better, Charlotte. Yeah, I think it's really true. The first thing I'd say is think about the context. Like, what's the context of the rest of what they're eating? Because honestly, that's what matters. And that's what we as parents tend to forget. We're like, oh, God, they've had two ice creams.

But what else have they had throughout the day? You know, have they had? Watermelon. You know, what else have they had? Because I think, again, we guilt ourselves without using that as part of the context. It's going to be a judgment call, but I would always say to parents, and I would say to you, Louise, don't overthink it. It was one week in your children's life. Yes, true.

think how much that is. It's one week. It's an anomaly. Well, it's not an anomaly going forward, but it was a, it is a bit of anomaly. But it's not an every week. It's not an every week. And I think, you know, there's so many things you can do that that can help to kind of mitigate that a little bit. So loads of really fab recipes to make things at home like that. You can start to get the kids involved in, like, making their own drinks as well. You know, maybe it's more movies, maybe just make things a bit more exciting. I make loads of different ice cream recipes and honestly, quite often the kids have no idea whether it is a mum's homemade one or a non. Because actually you can lose loads of fruit, which is full of fibre, full of polyphenols,

full of hydration, but also still quite sweet and taste great. So loads of other things you can focus on. But I would say it's going to happen. Like I said already, don't have a look at what your child's eating on one day or six weeks as this is going to impact their relationship with food. This is going to impact their nutrition because it isn't. what we eat and our health is built on days and weeks and months and years. And also, I think one really key thing is modelling yourself, modelling yourself what balance looks like.

Do you know what? I don't fancy an ice cream today. I've had a few of them. I'm going to have X, Y or Z. And also the balance outside of that ice cream or what comes next, what comes for dinner, and certainly not having the kind of negative connotations or conversations around the food. So if you're feeling guilty, try not to show that to kids because we don't want them getting, thinking that food was bad. I shouldn't have eaten it.

Now I feel rubbish. Yeah. It's going to happen. And, you know, definitely there's been occasions where my daughter's come home. And I did actually speak about it on my stories the other day. And people were popping off in the conversations, which was my daughter had already had an ice cream. And my mum then brought her home with an ice cream. As I was there with the dinner where I'd be like, dinner where.

You know, so it happens to all of us and it's fine. No, you're so right because my daughter, when I say love, I mean, loves custard. And whenever she goes to nannies, because obviously, you know what nannies are like, nannies give everything and it's never a know and it's always more than you ever need. And similarly, we did actually not too dissimilar thing. We actually just let it slide and it must have been a celebration of some sort. And she had custard and she had more custard and nanny asked her she wanted even more custard. Of course she said yes.

And obviously not to be too grotesque, but she was then sick. And we actually said to her afterwards, not to say, you can't have it because you're going to be sick. But actually, we said, well, you saw what happened when you had too much. Too much. Obviously, there's nothing wrong with having the custard, but just don't have so much. How much did children copy sort of our example and also, obviously, in that instance, learn by their own experience? Oh my God, absolutely. I love that so much.

Because first of all, you cannot underestimate. You know, I love to say this statement. It's not do as I say. It's do as I do. It's so much. I'm talking about a four-month-old, a six-month-old who's weaning, and I'm talking about a 14-year-old. They are genuinely emulating what we do without us even realizing.

If you think about a baby, how quickly do they start copying our faces? Mirroring. How many fans, they swear. where when they've heard us say as well. But they're literally imitating us from such a young age. And I promise you they're picking up cues of your language around food, your relationship with food, what you say, do and act around food. So one thing is getting your own relationship with food sorted first and foremost can have

a huge impact on them. Watching what you say, not talking shamefully about food or saying things like, oh, I mustn't eat that. I'm trying not to, I'm trying to be good. You know, these kind of things that are really natural to us who grew up in the generation of absolute diet culture. So you modeling matters. And I also love J.B., that you said that,

because I've done that with my kids before. They have eaten too much, felt really sick. And I've said, well, you know, that is why we try and eat a balance. Sometimes when you eat too much of some foods, you're likely to feel unwell. The same thing if they ate three bananas, they probably feel a bit unwell. You know, anything. in context. So I think as long as we're making sure that we're not shaming that food for saying you'll feel sick as you're going to make you feel great. So let's remember how you felt

and maybe next time you can regulate. And honestly, I have seen my kids do this themselves. My son's always been really good. My daughter, less so. She's much more like someone off of a serenitone, she's like, I'm having it. I only know that six that I've started to see her go, do I want it? want it. And sometimes she'll really try and like, oh, I can't. But my son literally sometimes lick one and go, I don't want anymore. She will hold on to it and be like, oh, I really want it. But there's been occasions where she's gone, okay, that's fine. I remember she had it the other day. I can't remember what it was. And I could see she was so desperate to carry on eating it. And I said to

Ada, if you don't want it, give it to me. You don't have to force yourself to eat it. And she said, okay, can you keep it for me? And I said, it won't keep. It's not going to keep. So if you don't want it, Give it to me and a front of the way. Yeah, exactly. Give it to me and I'll throw it away. If you want it, eat it. Don't remember. And she literally, it was like the snap decision is like, no, I'm fine.

I don't want it. I was so amazed because for Ada, this has just taken a lot of time to get to that point. So yeah, I love those points, JV. Sorry for laboring on, but yeah, I love those points. I feel like I could go down a bit of a behaviour topic here. And I don't want to, because there's lots of fun things to talk about. But I just want to quick. ask about, because you talked then about distraction, really, with behaviour, ultimately.

Yeah. She got distracted and she was like, no, I don't want it. But then what else can happen? And I know we've talked about this on other occasions separately, but like kids with screens or will sometimes be distracted by the screen and just almost habitually eat and not really know what they're eating. So distraction can work in some ways, but it can work in the reverse. in situations like screens being distracted on screens.

I think it's great to try and teach them to listen to their own appetite. So do you want this? How do you feel right now? And that's what I was kind of saying with Ada. Like if you want it, you need to think. Do you want it? If you want it, you're going to have to eat it now because it's not going to laugh. If you don't want it, think about how you feel if you don't want it and you're okay to get rid of it and we'll throw it away.

So I think that distraction is often not helpful. And certainly, and I know the screen conversation is really tricky because I know so many parents really rely on it, especially parents who have children who have neurodivergence. And I totally get that. But generally, as a rule of thumb, screens can be really unhelpful for helping children to learn to eat in the long run because it isn't teaching them to listen to their own appetite, to know how they're feeling, to know how much they want. And there's been research done where we've put, you know, kind of bowls of food in front of people who are watching the TV. And you can see that people eat a big percentage more when they're distracted. Because of course we are. We're sitting there watching East then and you're going, this is fascinating.

You're not thinking, what does this feel like in my mouth? You know, your whole body is not set up to understand that you're eating it somewhere else and you're eating completely mindlessly. So I'm not a fan of the screens and the distraction tools. but I totally appreciate how parents are needing that right now for certain situations. And I would never, ever shame any parents for doing that. And I think we've all got to work with the situation that we're in. But for many, many children, having screens is likely to lead to them, listening to their own appetite less and potentially refusing foods a little bit more in the long run.

They haven't got that kind of destruction in front of them. Yeah. Okay. So that's a bit about behaviour. Can I ask you some really useful takeaway advice now we're in summer? Like you said, people are doing days out, theme parks, yeah, or the local part for a picnic. I mean, the obvious thing I think for many families is sandwich bag of crisps, chocolate biscuit and maybe a piece of fruit.

Can expert nutritionist Charlotte Sterling Reid, please give me some examples for families for healthy picnics, please. Yes, I love that. So, you know, for me, picnics don't really need to be that different to our usual meal. But my biggest point would be your expectation needs to reduce, okay? Your expectation of how much they're going to eat and what they're going to eat and the balance they're going to eat needs to be right down there. Because, you know, same as you and I, we probably don't eat the same amount of picnic as we would sit and eat some food at a meal time. It just isn't the same environment. So first of all, I'd say reduce your expectations massively. And I'd also say, as a second point, try and take some really well accepted foods.

And then number three, prep those foods in advance if you can so they are easier to eat. So if you've got a whole apple versus you've got some slices of an apple, I know which one is going to get more eaten. So prep food, so they're a bit more easy to eat as a grab and go. Prep foods that you know they'll like and try and take those. and some of the other things I would say like invest in really good ice packs and really good lunch boxes because having those you know for me I said it's about the kit not just about the kit it's important about the kit because then if you have the right kit you don't need to worry so much about what you can and can't take out because you've got cool packs cool boxes you know thermos flas so keep things hot or cool so I absolutely love that you know hydrating fruits especially with weather like we've been having right now people underestimate how how much hydration we actually get from the food. So if your kids are not drinking water right now, focus on some foods.

And again, we're talking smoothies. We're talking maybe kind of homemade ice lolly type things. We're talking watermelon. You know, how many of us, how many kids are going to turn down big chunks of watermelon, slice that nicely and pop to the container with an ice pack on top. So for me, it's trying to take some of those hydrating foods, veggie fingers, hummus dips,

again, easy grab and go things they can munch. If you are worried about balance, then things like taking muffins. I'm a massive fan of things like muffins, crackers, bagels. You know, my kids absolutely love bagels. They're more likely to get eating because they're a bit novelty. It's not just a paint sandwich, something a little bit extra. And you can add in loads of extras in the kind of toppings and the spreads that you use as well. So I'd normally say those are really good options.

Little mini fratars are also really good ideas. and also absolute golden one. And I know we've talked about this before Louise, but Pesto Pasta. Oh, yeah. Always a goodie. Always a favorite. My go-to, because it's familiar. It's easy to eat.

It can be cold. I'm just trying to think of any others. But like I say, oh, yeah, little pots of natural yogurt. Also homemade homemade flapjacks or kind of lower sugar type flapjacks, little oaty type bars on the go. Anything like that are the ones that I would normally reach. to. It's never perfect. I promise you. The picnics I pack are not perfect. They're not perfectly balanced meals and I have very little expectation that that lot is going to be eaten. So I do my best to keep things fresh where possible, reduce the waste, sit down, spend some time,

have a nice routine around when we have that picnic. But my expectations of how much is going to be eaten, I promise you, are low. No. No. No, it's really, well, I mean, I'd like to go on your picnic, to on it. I know. I think it's a good job I have my lunch before coming on this podcast because I'm really hungry. I was going to ask, sorry Louise. Are there any foods that work naturally better when it's hot? Because I think that's definitely a concern for parents at the moment.

Oh, definitely. I mean, like I said, that's why I always think about taking, you know, just I'm a big ice pack taker with me. But definitely the kind of fresh fruits that you can keep cool, the veggie sticks that you can keep cool, I'm just trying to think what else. Like I say, Pestay pasta, I find that a really great option because it doesn't be if it stays hot or it's cold as well. So those pasta salads can be really useful.

Again, sandwiches are really easy if you have like a Marmite sandwich. I would personally, I'd avoid taking cheese sandwiches or hula sandwiches or any sandwich with a tomato in it because in the heat, they do. Sweaty pitnick is not good. Also, that's why we love bagels in our house. So we do take a lot of bagels with maybe marmite or peanut butter or something like that, which just lasts a bit longer. And also, like I say, muffins.

I love savoury muffins and I nut fruit muffins. And I often... Are you making your own muffins? Yes. Usually I do. And I know that sounds like impractical for a lot of fun. But honestly, some of those muffins take 10 minutes to make. They can do them in the air friar.

Yeah, really quick. I can do them in the air friar. Which is what I do. I constantly digging through my freezer. I'm like, oh, God, I forgot. I had these. There's the whole picnic of, you know, 12 muffins. So I batch cook them, I make them and scratch.

I always add extras in. You've got mild seeds in there. You've got a load of blueberries to make it nice and sweet. You know, maybe it's got peanut butter, whatever. And they don't even, they're not even thinking that this is a, this has got lots of healthy, nutritious stuff in it. But you know that they're getting a bit more extra balance. So for me, muffins on the go are the winner. The way to go.

So I've listened to a lot of your webinars that you've been doing recently, which are great. And obviously your podcast, which is great. And you've got your books and you're all over social. You are all out there. And we were looking enough, lucky enough to work together earlier this year. Yeah, I love that. Actually, our sex project. Something that's come up that I find in a lot of the work you do is about,

and we've touched on it already, about behaviour and role modelling. But the way to really get your kids eating well and eating healthier starts from day one. Yes. Can you tell the listeners why this is so important in your expert opinion? Definitely. So one of the topics I like I'm kind of an expert in is the early years. So this is generally the first, we talk about the first thousand days of weaning, which is the period from conception right up until a child's second birthday. And there's a huge amount of research on this area, which basically says that children during this time are kind of building those foundations of what health is. So we know that the nutrition children get when they are young impacts their risk of disease. their risk of illness, their education attainment, their, you know, their kind of health as they get older, into older children and into adulthood. So we know that those really kind of key days in the early years between conception to a second child second birthday, they're kind of, sometimes they're called deformative years. They're really forming a child and they're forming their relationship with food. We know that patterns of eating are developed, expectations around food are developed.

and preferences are developed during this time. So although I've talked a lot about, don't worry about it, it's all okay, that is true because the relationship with food matters so much more than this one meal and getting this meal in or this one week where they've had too much ice cream. Their relationship with food matters much more because their relationship with food will impact how they feel about food and therefore their diet throughout their lives. But we do know that the early years matter. We know that this period of time,

really helps to make sure we are offering a balance. And as parents, all we can do is offer. We can't force children to eat anything. We can offer a balance. We can model a balance and we can make meal times really enjoyable. So they're more likely to be willing to come back and more willing to accept that balance. So that's what we kind of do. But we do know that those early years are really instructive for this. And that's why I kind of talk so much about weaning and fuss eating and food refusal because it's classic during these times. And I know a lot of parents need support. We're trying to not necessarily get it right because there isn't a getting it right, but to help them feel confident with how to approach this in a way that is

realistic, but it also helps a child to get everything they need. Yeah. I mean, just take for granted, Charlotte, that someone, you know, parent listened to this hasn't stumbled across your feed yet. you know and there's just so much information as I'm sure you already know out there on socials in the news whatever it might be parents hearing things like you know my child has to eat vegetables before there too or you know they've got to try a hundred different foods or you know obviously you know first hand I know you're talking about my only eat beige food or whatever what is the message that parents who perhaps are experiencing some of the things or hearing some of those things really need to know

I think that, again, that kind of same message about this is not about one meal. This is about a relationship that's built over time. And that children, especially in those early years, they are learning every single day. We don't expect children to stand up and walk at day one. We don't expect them to be able to speak properly as soon as they say their first words. And it's exactly the same with eating. but we don't give it the same amount of credit. We expect them to, boom, start solid foods.

Why is my child not eating all this food I'm giving them? Why aren't they loving this balanced diet that I'm eating? We have to realise that just as children are still going to wobble at two and three, and just as they aren't going to be completely eloquent and have their full range of words at two and three, eating is the same. They are learning this journey called eating. And there will be ups and downs, the entire. time along that road and if you can expect them as a parent it actually can take some of that

pressure off because when you get that week where your child is eating almost nothing you can go as part of it part of the turn and sometimes just saying that yourself takes the pressure off and it has all the difference to how your child feels so I don't know if that helps it definitely helps and but for me I think you know I'll just I'll just give an example person example you know what do you do then when you've got a child who you know will try a certain thing and I just use an example of Kiara, my daughter, she had, she used to love strawberries. And then she went for a phrase genuinely where she's like, I don't like strawberries. I was going to say this example. You stole

my example. Sorry, Louise. Sorry. This is good. Exactly. Because both of us have this, have this idea about this. I was going to say exactly the same. It's real, it's a lived experience. And I'm sure other people will be doing exactly the same, won't they? My kid had so many blueberries and then an avocados. Won't touch a blueberry and avocado. And now they're 11 and 3. And, 13. One's come back to the avocado at 13. I was going to say she's back to the strawberries now. She's back to the avagado smash. So I'm a guy. We could do a whole podcast on this right here. So first of all, I want to say, children get to a stage where they start to go, hold on a minute, I want to have a say here. And they often don't have a say in whether they

cross a road, what they buy, what they wear, what time they go to bed. So they start to put that independence on that meal time. They can control what they put in their mouth. And that That's where they start to go, I can get some independence here and they do it. So that's why they start to refuse the foods they didn't eat. Also, a period of what we call neophobia, which is where foods, sometimes familiar foods, sometimes non-familiar foods and new foods start to get rejected. It's thought to be a time where children become a little bit more independent, they've become more aware of what they put in their mouth.

It's actually all really normal this phase. So the first thing you should do, J.B., is go, this is normal. That's okay. You don't like stories. Never mind. you don't take them off the menu because this is where most parents, in my experience, this is where most parents kind of fail slightly at the hurdle because they go, right, they don't like broccoli anymore off the table, they don't like strawberries anymore,

we won't offer it again. And actually what children need during that time is to learn that that food is okay, that I can eat it, that others around me eat it, and it needs to stay familiar. Because that is the only way they're going to really. accept it. If we don't offer it again and then in a year and a half we go, oh, why don't you try a strawberry? They're probably like it's going, no way, haven't even seen that for a while, don't want it. So don't take it off the menu. And the other key thing is like we've been saying the whole time, model, model eating it yourself with zero pressure because sometimes as parents

we're like, oh, look, I'm eating it. I love it. Why don't you eat it? And Barrett is going to down. But instead, it's modelling it nonchalantly and it is taking that pressure. If they think there's pressure for them to eat that strawberry, I promise you they're less likely to eat it. Whereas if you take that pressure away, if you eat it yourself and you model, this is a safe food, this is enjoyable. I like strawberries.

I'm going to have them regularly. You let them see it. They're so much more likely, as you've said, to come back to eating it. We often draw loads of attention. Oh, why don't you like it? You like that yesterday. Go on, try it again. and then you try it again.

You go, oh, please, just try the strawberry. Oh, look how much I like it. All of this will have the opposite effect, I promise you. So I don't know if that helps, but that is, you know, the role modelling, the carrying on with the exposure, the expecting it to happen, and the no pressure, nonchalantness around those foods. What sort of age are you talking about when they get more independent? So normally the kind of neophobia tends to peak around about 18 months to three years of age.

But honestly, I've seen it before and I've seen it later. it does really vary but generally that kind of independence is around that where they do start to go there I mean my daughter from genuinely from six months

she would not even taste she wouldn't even try egg she wouldn't have it but my son ate egg all the time he was an absolute avid egg eater so every time he had it she'd either have it in front of her or have a little bit on her plate

and then all of a sudden she got to I think it was about a year and a half and she just suddenly started eating egg I did not take it off the menu because it was part of our family food. So, yeah, it's just the trialing. And in terms of those sort of slightly fussy eaters, or what do we call them, curious, not curious?

Cautious eaters. The temptation sometimes, and I imagine every parent has done this, you make a plate of food, the child doesn't like it, the temptation to make something else in front of something else until they eat something. I know you're going to tell me that is the wrong thing to do. Yeah. But in my limited experience.

But what about, so for example, the story about the strawberry or the avocado. So say my kid was eating the avocado, didn't want the avocado, something I then did was change how they of avocado showed up. So rather than just slices of avocado on the plate, it then became mashed avocado or we used to do what we called avocado boats, where it was half an avocado, with a drizzle of honey in the middle. And they would actually have that for a pudding all of a sudden. But is that wrong?

Because we're still presenting that food, but we're sort of not putting it in disguise, but like it's coming in. I think as long as we're not hiding food and we're sneaking it into things and not exposing them to it. If you hide it into foods, if you bake it into muffins and you never let them be exposed to what it looks like what it's not like.

that's not going to help them to accept it again. But offering it in multiple ways is a brilliant way to help them see food in different contexts, to help them understand that all foods are different. You know, I always like to talk about my kids and bread. You know, we've got so many of my son's friends who come around our house and then we'll give them toast. And they're like, what the hell is this? It's brown. With my kids, you could give them any bread.

And I'm not boasting, but we just, you know, experience with seeing things. foods in different forms. Many masses because it means that they're more like if a child will only eat an avocado if it looks like this, it's much tougher than if they'll go I'll eat an avocado that looks like all these different things. And you're exposing them in such a great way. So definitely do that. I would agree with not offering alternatives as the general rule of thumb.

However, there have been occasions where I've offered alternatives. Largely, one time I accidentally took cay and pepper instead of paprika. That would do it. I was not going to force them to eat that, I promise you. And there's been occasions where I have made a brand new meal and they've gone, you know what, we don't like it. And I've not gone, I don't care, you're going to eat this. I've gone, fair enough.

I understand you don't like it. Let's do something different. But as a general rule of thumb when offering day-to-day family meals and they refuse it, I'm not going, okay, my love, I'll make you some toast. Because as soon as you do that, they're going to go, aha, if I say no, I can get a firm face. And let's be honest, a toast, cereal, crisps, you know, those kind of things are firm favourite. So if you give them that option, they're more likely to go hold on. Spag bowl, no, piece of toast with some butter, yes.

So alternatives don't really help in the long run. But I hope, did I answer your question? I hope I did. But I love the idea of the variety. Also, as well as your one-to-one expert advice with coaching parents and families, you're also quite, an advocate, a strong voice in campaigning around healthier starts for kids. And I know you played an active role in the documentary with BBC Panorama about the baby pouches, which when we reported it on our NetMum's platforms and socials, obviously, every parent of a young child had something to say.

And I know, put my hands up, I have fed my children when they were younger with pouches. Me too. Well, the conversation's out there already. It was out there with BBC Panorama. But for those that haven't quite followed that conversation or has maybe forgotten about that conversation, what's the bottom line? What is your sort of advice? Great question, because there is a bottom line. The bottom line is those foods are okay.

Nobody should be shamed for giving their children pouches because they're convenient. They're there. They can help parenting and they can help to give us a kind of another option. However, we should not be relying on these as everyday or regular meals for our little one because they are not developmentally or nutritionally appropriate. Okay. So they're fine, have them, you know, offer them to your little ones, but don't rely on them as really regular daily options because they develop mentally and nutritionally,

they're not appropriate. Sorry for people, I'm just trying to. Yeah, I was going to say I should have recap actually what the BBC Panorama show actually found. And that was that pouches were being marketed to young toddlers who don't necessarily need that convenience food. And it is a processed food. You wouldn't ordinarily eat that amount of fruit in one go that you get in a pouch. I think that the problems are, there's multiple problems. Number one was the age that they were recommending, which was often, you know, for, yes, older,

toddlers, but also for children under six months. Number two, the composition. So quite often they were very heavy on fruit. And actually that is a lot of fruit and a lot of kind of sugar within those that's broken down readily available. They also, the old kind of older ages, they often weren't a good source of what we would say balance. So there was much iron in there largely due to the manufacturing process of them.

They also often didn't have much texture. And babies learned to eat, they need to expose the different texture. And these are inherently restricted in textures because it all has to come out of the spout. And for most of them, babies are using them to suck through the spout so they're not actually seeing, smelling, tasting food and it impacts the teeth. The teeth. Which is a huge problem. Dental issues and children is huge, isn't it? But again, never shame.

You know, check backpacks. Choose ones that are more kind of veggie, savoury-focused. Go for ones with higher textures where you can chop them open and pop them onto a different. dish and feed it by a spoon or even better spread it on some finger foods use it as a dip use it as part of a meal rather than having it as the complete meal so many ways and if you need something on the go in emergency never feel guilty about doing that because that is exactly how it should be used so i hope that helps to kind of convey what we want to get yes yeah and listen you obviously mentioned feeling guilty there and it's very good i think to hear from your your mouth

you know, that actually that that feeling of guilt is not something that we should be feeling and we shouldn't be putting that pressure on ourselves. But there will be people listening who, you know, who perhaps don't have toddlers or babies anymore, you know, perhaps like us, they've got, you know, two, five, seven, 11, 13-year-olds. And they're thinking perhaps, you know, I wish I'd done things differently, you know, perhaps I shouldn't have given the fish fingers or not fed my kids X, Y, and Z. Yeah. How, I suppose how much, how important is it for us to, I suppose, allay those feelings of guilt around sort of UPS like beans and fish fingers and stuff like that?

And can you actually change that the course, that narrative, that course as children get older? Yeah. So I would definitely say that it's not going to be as easy because as we said like eating behaviours, preferences, you know, expectations around food are established young. so I'm not going to sit here and say, oh, yeah, but you absolutely can make changes. And quite often that is still coming back to us as parents, our relationship with food, our experiences, how we show up around food and around those meal times. Quite often that, you know, Louise, we've had conversations before about those meal times and how much they really matter.

And we're still talking about 14, 15, 16, you know, what's happening at home? What's mum doing? We'll have an, or dad, sorry, will have an, a, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, and knock on effect to how our little one, how our older children also come back to things. So I remember going off to university and literally eating pot noodles for the first time in my life. I was like, well, mum's got around.

I'm going to have these. And then, you know, now I'm, you know, I went back home and moved in with my husband. I did not eat pot noodles because I knew kind of the experience what I'd had as a child. So what you're doing really matters. And I think, please don't ever think that there is no option. Don't feel guilty about those processed foods because, you know, JV,

you mentioned baked beans, fish fingers. They're actually really nutrient dense options. Bread, you know, sometimes pastasos, these things get really bad wrapped. But actually these aren't the foods we should be limiting in our diets. It's much more the foods that are the sweets, the crisps, the biscuits that most of us know aren't really adding much beneficial. So we want to be kind of, you know, focusing our diet on, yes, of course, home-cooked food. But some of those foods you mentioned can really add nutritional benefits. And they can take the time and the pressure of parents. So don't shame yourself for having those. Focus on the kind of home-cooked food and mordering to your kids once a week and never ever think it's too late.

Because we make changes the whole time. I mean, we've probably had changes in our lives as we've gone along with the type of food we eat. And it'll be the same for our kids. So I'll be back to what we do. It really helps. Added to that as well, it's not just the meal time in itself. It's preparing or the shopping or the recipe finding as well. It's like get your kids involved, especially if they're a bit older, get them involved in that as well, get them involved in stirring, watching the meat turn a different colour as you're cooking it, all that sort of things.

Like get them involved. I feel like a lot of that has lost, wasn't it? Because, you know, I guess at our age is roughly, we had no cooking lessons in school. Learn how to cook. You didn't learn how to prep meals. And I think there was, we've got a whole generation of the meat didn't ever learn to cook. So the more the way we didn't ever learn to cook.

So the more that we can teach our kids, even from a really young age, to stir, to spread, to get involved in the cooking. And actually it's chaos. But kids love it. Yeah, yeah. My too, love it. I do. I've always done it. You get them to taste that bit of pasta.

Oh, is it done enough? Oh, not sure. Yeah. No, it's so important. So before, just to finish off then, before we move to a bit of a quick fire round, I'll hand you a JB for that. What's the one thing that parents worry about, do you think, around? feeding their family that really they shouldn't. Really, you don't want them worrying about it.

If you could stop them worrying. I think the real thing that I see parents worrying about, it's the up and down appetites. And I constantly say this, and I've said it already here, but we really ought to expect that. Take that as the norm. Let's not medicalise kids having these kind of up and down appetites because we have up and down appetites.

You said Louise, well, it's hot you don't want to eat so much. Maybe you've been really active. Maybe you ate loads yesterday. Maybe you're not feeling quite right today. Kids have all these too. And we expect them to eat food and then it should be like this the whole way. Robots. Yeah.

Exactly. And it gets would like that. Their appetites will go up and down constantly based on so many different fluctuations of things around them, including the weather, including how they feel, including what they ate yesterday, including, you know, their distractions like we've talked about. So expect those appetites. Don't worry if a meal here and a meal there and a meal there starts to get refused because actually it's part and parcel of feeding kids.

Yeah, and obviously they're all growing as well. Yeah. Suddenly their appetite will shoot up and you're like, oh my God, is this wrong? Am I giving them too much? So, yeah. Great. I'm going to hand you over to J.B. now for a quick fire. All right.

It's quick fire time. All right. All she's getting hot. All she's getting hot. All she's getting. It's really spoiling. Don't worry. There's no pressure.

All you have to do, really, is finish these sentences. There's a couple of questions chucked in there as well. Just give a one word answer. Okay. You ready? Yes. Okay, cool. Summer holiday food in one word.

Lower expectations. I'll give you two. I'll give you two. I'll give you two. Most underrated family snack. Muffins. The one freezer item every family. should own.

Peas. Ooh, I wasn't expecting that one. I love peas. I love peas. If children could eat one thing forever, they should have. I'm going to say eggs or tofu. Okay. Yeah. This is the protein thing.

Tofu is an interesting one. Iron, sorry. Sorry nutritionist. What's one food parents shouldn't feel guilty about? Pizza. Everyone feels guilty about pizza is such a good food. I was going to say that for picnics as well, cold pizza. Yes.

Love that. Definitely don't forget about pizza or bread or any food. One good food habit. Every family should start tomorrow. Modeling? Modeling what to eat. I think that's the key. Do as I do.

Not do as I say. Love that. Love that. And then family favourite picnic food, yours. I think I know the answer to this already. Well, I've got to go with. Pesto pasta. There we go.

Maybe with some lentils chucked in the top of the balance. Oh, that's a good one. Love that one. Oh, you know what? I would love to do more foodie podcast, J.B., because I just really enjoy talking about food. I know.

They make us happy. Not that we're not happy, but we've not stopped smiling, have we? I think we should do like a little offshoot series just about food. Yes. You need to do it while you're eating food at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Charlotte. Thank you. There was so much useful advice in there for family. Great tips. Yeah. And also some good levelers as well. So we don't always feel guilty or feel overwhelmed as well. Absolutely.

Always my aim. Thank you so much. I loved it. I love talking about food nutrition weaning. So thank you so much, guys. All good. Thank you. Oh, Charlotte.

Thank you. This has been exactly what parents, including me, need over the summer. Not another list of rules of what to do and what. not to do, but practical advice that actually feels achievable. It was super useful, thank you. Oh, it really was. And I think that's exactly what it was, Louise. It was practical advice. I think one of the biggest takeaways for me is that it wasn't just about sort of healthy eating and, you know, the kids being perfect, but actually modelling what we do and making sure that most of the time, what we do is a good example. And giving ourselves a bit of grace along the way as well, which I think will definitely make the summer holidays a lot easier. A little news, yeah.

Yeah, a little. But no, thank you so much. And we'll see everyone next time. See you next time. Bye.