The Netmums Podcast - S19 Ep9: ELLIE TAYLOR: The truth about motherhood (that nobody says out loud)

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

What happens when the parenting reality doesn't match the picture you imagined? On The Netmums Podcast this week, comedian, actress, author and mum of two Ellie Taylor joins JB Gill and Louise Burke for a special video episode full of brilliantly honest conversation about the messy, funny and emotional reality of family life.Ellie, a former Strictly contestant and also a star of the popular TV show, Ted Lasso, opens up about why she found the newborn stage so difficult, the guilt of not feeling an instant bond with her babies, and why she believes more parents need to be honest about those early struggles. She is also super honest about the moment she was struck by gender disappointment with her second child and the challenges of welcoming another baby after a five-year age gap.The conversation goes on to explore how she shares the parenting load with a stay-at-home dad, and how motherhood has reshaped her marriage. Ellie talks openly about the love for her children while also reflecting on learning to let go of control and embracing a ‘good enough’ approach to parenting. Plus, she talks about balancing a busy career with family life and filming her latest ITV show The Box out this autumn.In this episode: Why Ellie didn't instantly fall in love with motherhood The reality of having a second child Gender disappointment and changing expectations Sharing parenting with a stay-at-home dad Keeping a relationship alive after children Why 'good enough' parenting is enough Whether you're in the newborn trenches, weighing up a second child or simply trying to hold everything together, this episode is full of honest reflections, big, big laughs and reassuring reminders that parenting doesn't have to be perfect to be enough.Fancy watching the full episode of The Netmums Podcast on Youtube? Visit the Netmums YouTube Channel now!Read more trusted parenting advice at Netmums and join the conversation on social @Netmums.JB and Louise would love to hear your parenting stories, questions and dilemmas. Email [e-mail] and you could be featured in a future episode.The Netmums Podcast is brought to you by Netmums, trusted by parents, backed by experts.This episode was produced by Further Films.

Hello and welcome to The Netman's podcast where real parenting conversations happen. I'm Louise Burke. And I'm J.B. Gill. And today I'm very excited because our guest is not only a presenter, actor, author, radio two host, Bake off the professionals even presenter, an author of a book. But she's also my fellow contestant on the box. Oh, yeah. All right. Give that arrest for a minute. We'll get to that later. She's a mum of two children and it's possibly one of the funniest mums I know out there

who goes a good refreshing take on parenthood I think anyway I love your socials I love a video this morning welcome Eddie Taylor Thank you very much What a pleasure to be here Thank you

It's so good to have you here honestly I don't think I've seen you actually since we did the box No We've spoken a little bit Yeah But we had a lot of fun And we will get to that a bit later

But today we're going to be talking about I feel like I'm going to sit in between the show We're strategically placed. We're talking about that all night. But yes, now we're talking about second babies. The reality of sharing the parenting load. I think we all have to manage that and juggle that, don't we? And also, why the early years might not be your most favourite part of life.

Yeah. Yeah. Awful. Well, I was going to dive into that straight away, actually, because obviously you wrote a book, My Child and Other Mistakes, a Sunday Times bestseller. No, thank you. Nonetheless. Thanks, bring that up.

Just getting that in quick. So you had your first child, daughter. Yeah. Five years later, had a second one. Yeah. What was the difference in when that second one came along? Because it was five years later. And like Jay said, when you had that first baby, you were very open and honest.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The newborn days, you know what? They just don't suit me. No, they were not for me. So tell us a bit about those newborn days first. Yeah. And like, and what you talk about in the book for those that's not read.

it. And also the difference when that next child, five years later, just when you think you're out of the voice. You've done the potty training, you're sleeping again, and then another one come from. Yeah. So, yeah, so I had my daughter when I was 35. It took me a long time to work out if I did want to have kids, eventually got. I basically decided that I didn't want to die without becoming a mum. That's a lovely joy. Well, lively, yeah, a heartwarming way. But that was essentially it. What do you want your life to look like when you're older? I think I want children in it. Oh, God, I've got to have a flipping baby then, don't I?

So I had the baby. Love the pregnancy. That was really exciting. And then the babe came. Had quite a, you know, no one has a, well, not many people have a fabulous birth. Yeah. Didn't love that. The aftercare was not super great.

I think that was quite impactful. And I found the first, probably six months, I was quite loopy. I think in hindsight I probably had post-nature depression I didn't realize, but I felt really, really all over the place. In the book, I remember I wrote something. It felt like my life had been poured into like a blender and then whizzed up and then poured back out. And it was the same, molecular, it was the same,

but it was completely different. And I felt like I was sort of acting like, well, this is the way Ellie would be. This is what Ellie would do. But I felt very disconnected. It was very strange. And it was the sleep, I think, really. got to me, obviously. And then I sort of clawed my way out of that.

And then once she got to over one, it things felt much better. But yeah, I certainly wasn't like fall in love with them instantly. It was definitely I fell in love with my kids over time. It wasn't just like the connection of having the baby. Yeah. Like the whole process of having the baby and the baby physically having a baby, but also being a new mom? Is that what you struggled with as well?

I just didn't, I think I just didn't know. I hadn't been about babies. I didn't know anything. I knew I'd seen mum's in cafes. Yeah. Doesn't count. Oh, that's what it's like, no one, no one had to go online. Yeah, the reality of it.

And again, in the book, I'm like, if, if, like, NCT did, like, a little class trip to a night shift with a baby, where you just stand in the room and be like, oh, my God. Oh, oh, so this is what every two are in the night, you're awake. And I remember the first night I bought her home and she cried. And I didn't, I didn't know what. to do. And then I saw what I did was I picked her up and walked around the house and then I laid on the floor in the living room and I was like, I think I'm doing this because this

is like what maybe you do in a film with a baby. But I didn't know what I was meant to do which sounds so silly but I was totally unprepared. I didn't know about wake windows. I didn't know about anything. Did you do the NCT classes? Yeah. But that's all very much about the birth isn't it? Yeah. It's leading up. You say

that but I did the NCT classes with my first and no one told me that you had to give birth at the placenta. Right. Wow. That massively surprised me when after I'd gone through the whole burn and then realized that I had to go birth to percent, even though I was like high as a kite and, you know, delirious by that point. It's funny the things you don't know.

I always remember like when Kate Milton had her first baby, not that, you know, I was sort of not dissimilar ages. And she appeared on the step, obviously, mental. But she still looked pregnant. That was the first time. I was like, oh, I never knew that I thought you went back to kind of normal straight. I had no idea. And I must have been in my late 20s.

At his 30s at that point. Like, that's wild. The things you don't know are crazy. Did you feel like you had much support or was did you very much learn on the job every single day figuring it out? I think it was a bit of both. Like my mum and my sister were amazing. Felt real solidarity in love from there. And it made me realise what a rubbish sister I'd been because my sister's older than me.

She had kids quite a few years ago. And I was such a little bitch to her. I didn't give a monkey. I was so uncaring. I just didn't understand. And I thought I will always feel guilty about that. But she was wonderful. They were both wonderful.

And yeah, I mean, you claw your way through. And then she was a fun little toddler. And then we thought we'd try and have another kid. And then it all took a lot. We didn't have a while. It just sort of took a while. And then so my second, it was a big deal to decide to have a second. Because like you said, I was kind of through, we were through it all.

Yeah. The naps are out of the door. Yeah. And we chose to go back into. the once. And that was, I mean, that was full on when he arrived again. I did, I think probably for a good six months, every day I would think, well, I've ruined our lives. I've ruined our lives for having him. It's interesting because I've got not too dissimilar a gap to you, almost four years. It's quite a big gap between our first and our second. And that was a conscious

decision. And I think we always definitely wanted to have at least two. We're done at two. But, you know, we always wanted to have another one. For you, was it a conscious decision to have another one, or was it a case of, you know, perhaps an accident, it happened? No, no, we were really, we were trying it, we were taking supplements, this, that and the other, timing everything. So you didn't want to have a big gap?

No, it was just no. We really ramped up their supplements and everything at the end when we're like, why is this, come on, because with my daughter, it was like that. It just, you never know, do you? And then, yeah, my son came around, and he was an awful baby, bless him. He was, someone I've, one of my friends always said about her kid that her baby just didn't like being a baby.

And that's exactly my son. He did not like being a while. He was just so screaming. Like I went, the other day I went for a lunch with my friend. Because he was colic or? No, just a little bastard. He was a little shit. He was, he was really angry with life.

He had a rough start in that. He was, he was jaundice and he wasn't putting on weight and we had issues with feeding. So he had, for the first month, he was just, we didn't realize, he was basically just really. bloody hungry. Hungry and hangary. Hangary, exactly. There's a permanent little frown on his face. And, yeah, he would scream a lot.

Yeah, I went for lunch with a friend the other day who's got a three-month-old. And this little chubby, lovely, had a little cuddle with me. And then we were having lunch. She put him in the pram. After a while he got a little bit annoyed. A few little muse. She fed him. And then I went and she went and she went like, oh, he'll fall asleep now.

I'm just going to get a margarita. And I was like, what? The flip is this is not my experience. It was my way. It was like a grenade. Like he's not asleep. He needs to be asleep or feeding. And if there's anything in between, it's a nightmare.

And he needed sleep so bad, but he fought sleep like it had keyed his car. Like he hated it. And it was even when they're tired. Yes. Maybe it's because they're tired now. Oh my God. Whatever it is. And the screaming.

And we have the white noise and the rock. It was honestly awful. And at one point, you know, they go through cycles and he only wanted to sleep in the buggy. And my husband's a stay-at-home dad. And I went back to work very early, also not fab. And I was like, how many steps have you done today? My husband's like, 27,000.

He's a winter baby as well, so in the miserable. So it was in the rain. So it was a really, that first year with him was hard. But he's much happier character now he's older. Because I did think, and I would use, you know, netmums and the like to be like a miserable baby. okay in the end sort of thing because you just think what is there something up with him yeah have I just got is he just a little miserable boy instead I don't understand this and then yeah he's you know they change a million times don't they and he's very and he's so cute and funny and I love him so much now

but again it was a definite process of yeah of falling in love with him and I'm really glad we had him now and I didn't always feel like that but I love being a little family of four I love it now can I go back to just briefly the emotional side of that five years sort of wait for your second because I think a lot of other parents will sort of listen to that story and think, oh, that's me. It's taking me a long time. And it's, I know myself, like, when you're within a group of other parents on that first baby and that people are, you know, the WhatsApp message drops in on the group saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're not expecting a second? And you're like, ah. Yeah. And it's fine. The first one, you're like, oh, congratulations. And it's just awful that sort of green-eyed monster that takes over a little bit. Let's be honest, like when everyone else is, it's happening for other people. How did you find that weight?

And like you said, you up your supplements. What were the supplements? You were magic supplements. So it was the first, when, like the NCT group, like you say it, first of all, when people were saying their program, I was like, are you insane? Like, our babies, our babies, what are you doing? And then it got on. And then we started trying, maybe when my daughter's about three.

And that took a while. And then I remember, like, it wasn't happening in one of my very, very, very. very best friends. We were at a party and her husband was like, well, she can drive, she's driving me home. That's fine. And then she was like, oh, yeah, pregnant. And I found it really upsetting. And we had to, I had to leave the party. Oh, yeah. It happens to a lot of people. It's really hard to manage. I think it's also hard to, with the second, I felt it very hard to work out what I really wanted and what is societal pressure. And I, I'm never sure if I really untangled it all, to be honest. But I found,

And I also think with her, if I'm honest, it was also like I feel like I've had such a charmed life and I'm kind of used to getting what I want and I wasn't getting what I want. And I was like, oh, yeah, hang on a minute. Yeah. This isn't a situation. I'm usually in control. I felt very out of control. And I'm in control.

You could have asked around that situation in your way. No, no nature. And then with what was doing, my husband was taking a load of different things. I stopped doing caffeine. I stopped drinking. I can't even remember what else I was doing. but nothing like totally wacky just sort of looked online

but I found the caffeine harder than the booze to be fair because I really missed a cup of tea well then we already had one as well so you're running around doing a lot I was like one a day and I thought I had to have non-caffeine tea

and then yeah and then eventually it happened and thought oh my God and then I found out and I was like I was away filming and I happened to do a test I was filming this thing where I was doing loads of stunts. I was like it was like an action thing.

Physical. So I thought, I just check. And I did a test. I was in the middle of nowhere, like by myself. So I had to text my husband. And then I, it was so weird because I had, I couldn't, it was just me. And I was like, how do I process this? And then I had to tell all this stunt people.

So I'm like, I'm pregnant. So I'm like, I'm pregnant. So people are congratulating me when I'm probably about three weeks pregnant, just dealing with what on earth is going to mean. And I'm like, don't congratulate me. It's really weird. And I'm like, you know, telling a stunt coordinator that you're pregnant before your parents. It's very odd.

Yeah. Yeah. That was an odd time. And then there was the thing when I found out I was having a boy as well. I didn't like that. Oh, I cried a lot about that. Really? Yeah.

Which I think is a really important thing to talk about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because with my daughter, I always wanted to go on. I wanted to go desperate for a girl. When I found out I was having a girl, I did the harmony test because I was like, want to find out ASOP. Wow, you are honest. Because I'm incredibly controlling. Right.

So I found out I was having my daughter. She was a girl, like, punch the air like I'd just won the World Cup. With my son did the harmony test. And I got the results. I opened it with my husband. I sobbed. I sobbed and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. My husband was like, you need to get a grip here.

But what was he like as well? He was fine. He didn't mind, by the way. He didn't mind. Okay. But I'm very unimaginative. I'm one of two girls. I just wanted to repeat what I had.

You like what you know. Exactly. Yeah. I'm just not clever enough to be like, oh. I was like computer cannot compute. And so that took a long process. But now I find it quite, it's fascinating. It's different in it.

Having a little Willie in the house, man. Oh my God. I'm going to talk to her learning a lot. And it's a totally different energy. And my sister again was super sweet. She's got a boy and a girl. And she was like, knew how I was finding it a bit difficult to come to terms with it. And she was like, it's so lovely.

We're so lucky to get two different types of love. And you have these two different relationships. And we're just so lucky Ellie to experience this. And that was a really, it was so kind. And she did it so beautifully and that really made me feel really chirpy about it. And I do really like it now. It's lovely and like, you know, my girl is always my best girl.

He's always my best boy. Different kids, different vibes. And slightly less comparison, I think, because it helps. Yeah, that must be hard with three girls. Yeah, I've got three girls. Yeah, and they're all incredibly close, which is great. But you do, as a parent, obviously, you do this anyway when you've got multiple children where you go, oh, well, that one liked to

Avocados. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, they're different people. Yeah. You mentioned before just then that you are a bit of a control freak. Yeah. How, I know that your husband is a stay-home dad.

You went to work back to work quite quickly. How quickly after you're not that I'm judging? No, no, it's about eight weeks. Yes, that is quite quick. How do you find, as a control freak and being the sort of mother of the house in a sort of stereotype or traditional way, how do you, feel like letting go of some of those reins when it comes to meal times, organisation. I mean, some of it just has to let go. And there's also a lot of trying to micromanage and

overcompensating. Yeah. I feel like your answer just then was quite controlled as well. Sometimes you just have to let me. Sometimes. Where's my eye? I just tell you myself. Sometimes, sometimes, Ellie, you just have to let go. I think at the beginning I probably found it harder. He's been doing it now for four years. And he, you know, he basically had, you know, he was the new mum with the baby. So, yeah, it's certainly hard and I absolutely haven't mastered it yet. But I, and sometimes I'll message him and be like, remember this and remember this and this and this. And he's like, I feel like he gets, it's kind of part of my process. Like, I, you know, I'm 95% sure he'd have remembered all of that anyway, but I feel like I have to do it to be like, I've done my thing.

Yeah. So, yeah, there's that. And, yeah, I mean, I can't control what, you know, I've let go dinners and stuff. He's in charge of all the foodies stuff now. And he's good at it? Yes, he's great. He's great. How did you guys come to that conclusion?

Because it's something that I, like, Chloe and I've discussed it. And, you know, I'm the main breadwinner in my household. And it just is that way. But I've always said to her, listen, if you ended up, you know, everything happens these days, content, creation and this and that. I was like, if you were flying doing that, I would be more than happy to sort of be at home and do the school runs and all that sorts. stuff. Like, I live for that stuff. How did you get to that conclusion? Because it's not a dynamic that we often hear about or see in modern society, is it? It should be, but it, let's be honest, you don't see it. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, in the majority of households, both parents

are working. So, yeah, exactly. It's very different to, like, you know, when I was brought up, it was my mum was looking after us. My dad was out of work. But we basically got, so my husband was an international correspondent for an international news channel, so he was flying here, there and everywhere. My job is obviously bats and the schedule is different. Our hours are weird. So it got to a point when we just had my daughter at this point that we just couldn't manage it. Our schedules were too crazy. She was being passed around a little bit and it just got too wild and we thought she needs some stability here. So we either get a full-time nanny or one of us has to stop working. And things were going well for me and my husband was like, he's older than me. He's like,

I'm happy to take a break. So that happened. Then we were thinking about that. Then I got strictly which is all consuming as you know it's six days a week and you know at least half of the seventh day you're thinking about it anyway so fantastic by the way

oh thanks so it was so full on he took a little career break for that and then he just we were like this is working well for us and he didn't go back and he was enjoying it yeah but I think it's a different

my daughter was four she was at nursery not full time but he it wasn't as full on as when we had the second baby and I went back to work and he stuck with this screaming little goblin. That was really hard on him.

And I think it was a really hard year for all of us. And I always remember that the grace that he sort of offered me. Like I remember I'd leave for work. I was doing this job where I was away for two days, back for two days, a way for two days. So I would literally pass him over a baby at 5 a.m. often screaming. And I know what the next 40 hours is going to be like for him.

And he would always go, like, good luck, have fun. Give me a kiss. he'd always say have fun. And I always makes me teary thinking. No, but he met it, like, probably a bit. But he did mean it. Yeah. And I think to offer that was very graceful.

Important as well. Yeah, yeah. Because that's when resentment grows as well. And that's really unhealthy. And I'm sure we, you know, I'm sure we don't get the balance right all the time. But I think we do a good job. And I really try and be as, as grateful and as, as helpful as I can be. I know he thinks like, because it's overcompensating.

So I'll be like, I've got to leave. But I've done the kids bags. And they're already, he's like, you don't need to do that. But it's like, I can do this. Yeah. But I think it's also, again, it's societal. Mummy, mommy, should be doing. I need to.

I should be doing it. I think I do more than a man would do in this situation, if I'm honest. And that's not because he's asking that of me or expects that of me. I think a lot of that is that own pressures I put on. Yeah. No, totally. So if I, the weekend, well, we're both working in our house. So say for a weekend day I go out and leave my husband,

I'm always like running through what foods. the fridge or what time someone's being picked up for whatever birthday party or where the birthday present is. But if he goes away, bye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, straight out the door. It's interesting that happens though, because for me, I often think, you know, and please take this as no disrespect, I often find, especially, I'll just use clothes an example, you know, if I went away, like you say, you know, she'd be there. And for the most part, like I was incredibly highly organized. She's obviously very, you know, knows what she's doing. She is the ultimate moment. She absolutely is. But there would have been moments where she just figured it out and just worked out whatever.

And I often think actually sometimes it does a little bit of a disservice. Sometimes I feel like that personally because I'm like, well, even if I did forget the blah, blah or didn't do whatever before, actually you'd do it and know that, oh, do you know what, I forgot that and that was a nightmare. And then you wouldn't do it again if that makes sense. So actually sometimes there's that space and freedom to actually make the mistake, which I think, yeah, which everybody has to do no matter what it is with. it's parenting or anything else, that sometimes we, you know, I say we, I don't get, you know what I mean? Yeah. I remember there's a phrase with babies, like don't become the expert in the baby.

You don't want to be as the mum, the default one. Oh no, the baby will only go down with me. You know, that's something because you are trapped. That's a bit like martyrdom. Yeah, and you've got to like, and I did try and do that with my husband at the beginning. Like, just step back. Like, he'll find his, he'll do his thing. It might not be the way you do it.

And it's really hard not to bite your tongue off. Especially when they're struggling to get in the way. Carsey or something. Yeah. Just move on the way. I'm just done. But yeah, you just got to, you do your own things. And you do, you end up.

But we have, I think our overall parenting approach is quite similar, but we definitely do things in our own ways. Yeah. Absolutely. And how does he, just, I'm interested to know, does he ever share with you how he comes across to other people as the sort of full-time stay-at-home dad? Because I know, like, in the past, in my experience, like, if other parents used to see my husband,

and walk off with the kids that drop off or something. They'd be like, oh, daddy daycare today, is it? And it'd be like, why is it not the mummy daycare when they see me? You know, it's just that sort of expectation. I think that he's just been doing it so long. And now it's kind of obviously what it is. But there has been times where people do, I did a bit about this in my show, like my last stand-up show, like the reaction is like, oh.

I remember like a few times, genuinely the people's reaction be like, oh, you're going to write a book about your experience. A book. Are you going to write a book about your experience? Like that's how unusual, this crazy thing that you're doing. A really long book. Yeah, like, it was really, it's interesting. Because I think if a mom said that she's a stay-at-home mom, no one gives a shit.

No, yeah. He says it. Because that's what we do. Someone asks if he's going to write a book about it. But, yeah, I think it's a testament to him. And again, I'm not sure I could do it to be, I don't think I could be a stay-at-home mom because I think I'm too, my whole identity is wrapped up with work, whereas my husband is so sort of, he's so,

confident and chilled, you know, do you know what I mean? He doesn't need work to prove who he is. And don't get me wrong, I think there's, being a stay-at-home parent that certainly comes with an identity shift. And I think that's, as the kids get older, I hope that he will find some more space

to have, you know, to do. I know a couple of have done that. Yeah. I do actually know a couple where the dad stayed at home and looked after the kids. And now he's picked up his career. Yeah. And the mother has stepped back Yeah.

From her career. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's definitely ebbs and flows. And that's why I say, you know, if Chloe ended up doing something, maybe running a business, whatever it was, where that something took off. Like, for me, I'd be the first person to be like, absolutely, go ahead. Yeah. Do you what you've got to do?

I would love for him, yeah, to find something, again, to, like, really feel his cup. It's hard at this age. It's so little. Seven and a half and two and a half and two and a half. Yeah. So the two and a half is just, yeah. You just think another couple of years and he'll be in school and then hopefully like all open up a little.

A whole load of marvellous. I know, I know. But I'm really hoping the baby will be less just unreasonable. Yeah. Yeah. And then you've said before about your relationship at home. Because obviously this dynamic will then impact your relationship. And you've said before that sometimes you live like a couple of co-workers.

Oh yeah, like my brother. Yeah, he's my brother. Yeah. Or a flat mate or something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Does that like, because whenever that has happened with me, It does freak me out a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's really hard. I mean, there's been stuff going on at home where we just haven't managed to, we haven't had a date night in eight months. We haven't been out in the evening. Well, just because of work demands or family. Children's stuff going on. They just weren't in a place where,

and it was really hard. And we thought we'd thought we'd cracked at the beginning of year. We thought the toddler's not quite so crazy now. Brilliant. We'll be able to once a month we're going to have a date night. And it just hasn't been possible. And that has been really. hard because

even once a month you think surely that's possible exactly it feels mad that I'm saying that but I'm hoping this weekend we're going to go away

for a night oh my good we'll see yeah we'll see if we'll manage it stepping it up from a date night you're going to wait for the house away from looking at the washing

that sort of thing just to change a scene messages to each other where it's like can you pick up some milk have you taken it's so can you change it's so transacted

You've made the bell, if you've done this. Exactly that. It's really hard. Marriage is a really, well, long-time relationships when you've got kids. How long have you been married? A long time, man. A long time, 12 years. 12 or 13 years.

We've been together another five before that. So a long time. And we do. Sometimes we just like look at each other. Like the kids are both screaming. We had such a nice life before. So wait. Does your son go to the nursery?

He goes to nursery? Yeah, he goes to nursery three days. Have you ever done a date day or like a date, like breakfast, brunch? Yeah, we've done that. We've been out and like, yeah, we've been out and about in London, which has been really nice. But we've never made a plan. It's like, oh, we need to go and talk to our accountant. But after that, we'll go for lunch.

You know what I mean? We do need to prioritize that because that absolutely is time. That is the winner. That is what we do. We literally will drop the kids off at school, obviously slightly different because we're a little bit older. We'll drop the kids off at school. We'll go and run around and get whatever. And then we'll be done.

by two and know that, okay, well, at least we can do sort of like 11 till 2 or whatever, have a bit of time that you say, moot's back in London and then we can come and go. Because we're both working. So in the week, like the kids go to school, but then, you know, it's hard. It's hard for you. It's really hard. When I kids were your age, Ellie, at your kids' ages, they do like a Saturday morning like football camp or drama camp or something. And actually there was a time when all three of them were in the same thing at the same time. Because sometimes you sign them up for these clubs and actually you find yourself during each of the clubs

you're just playing taxi. And we would do the breakfast thing on a Saturday morning which was nice. That is heaven. I feel like that was quite short, miss. I'm a very long time again. But yeah, I guess it all changes. We have no weekends at all.

Yeah. Weekends. Cubs, cups. But I think that's half the thing. You've got to find what works for each family. Yeah, because it's different, isn't it? And what you need. because if you love like both going to the pub and having a bag of criss and a pine and just like gossiping about the week or whether you prefer going for a run or a breakfast or whatever.

So yeah, find your thing. Find something. You do know him well though by this point. You should, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I don't know quite well, I'd say, yeah. And then in terms of like parenting style, so if he's at home sort of taking that role on largely

and you're outworking and doing amazing, exciting things with work. What would you say your style is when you come home? Are you sort of all over the kids when you get back home? Yeah. I'd say you're a millennial, is that right? Yeah, a millennial, yeah. An elder millennial. So a millennial parent's quite different to like a Gen X parent.

And I think there's a lot about a beta mom at the moment. What does that mean? The beta mom's like a new thing. I keep obviously getting served out on my algorithms and stuff. But Beta Mum is less of a, definitely not a helicopter mum or that Alpha Mum where they're just trying to like smash everything and get everything right. So Beta Mum is quite hands off, very much like let the kids roam around, have their sticky fingers, it doesn't matter if they eat like chips for tea one night. It's more of a sustainable approach and less about less performative as well. Oh, right, yeah.

So the Alpha Mum is quite performative. and like, like, always smashing it. Oh, no, I'm definitely not smashing it. No, I couldn't, no. I don't know how people do that on like Instagram, for instance, how, you know, the perfect, I can't, I can't, the stress of doing all that. It's a lot.

Oh, my God. No, mine is chaos and, um. And being happy with it. I think that's the point. Oh, yeah, I'm fine. I don't have much pride. So I'm, like, I would say if, if I do school drop off, it's very likely I'm wearing something I've slept in,

that sort of thing. I really don't have any standards in. that regard. And in terms of my kids, they quite often look like, someone said they once looked like they'd been just sort of taken off of a climate protest. Like the things that they dress, they look wacky. They've been found in that, their sort of lost property being, that's the sort of clothing vibe that we go for. My daughter's always really scruffy. It's usually got chocolate around her mouth. I was going to say, are you very good at hair? I did a course. Oh, wow. I did a potting course.

Well, because I can't clap right. I couldn't, I could platt, but I couldn't do Dutch or French plats. So I did a one day for a four-hour course, and I learned how to Dutch braid, which is great. I mean, it's still dodgy and I don't do it off enough, but I can basically do it. She loves that. She does like that, yeah. Okay, I mean, hit a miss depending how good they look like. So I can do that.

So I think what's my style? I think it's, yeah, sort of, I'm like, good is good enough. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not absolutely not. And what's your husband like? I think he's more strict than I am, I think. Yeah, he's more authoritative, I would say. I'm more easy touch.

My general philosophy at the moment is I try and pour so much love into them and just tell them I love them all the time and smother them in a way that my daughter, I'm like, do you know how much I love you? And she's like, oh, I roll. And I'm like, that's what I want. I want her to take my love so for granted that it's so embedded in her bones, that will, you know, she'll have that resilience within her forever. That's why I hope.

So that I kind of, I used to be like, why doesn't she be like, yes, mommy, and I love you too? She just brushes me off. And I'm like, no, I think this is good. This is good, actually. You should take my love for granted. Yeah. And are you, I know you're funny to everyone else in the outside world. Are you funny at home?

Yeah. Do your kids find you funny? Yeah, I am definitely, I'm very silly with them. And that's the wonderful thing about kids is they really bring out your silliness, don't they? So, yeah, that works, that works quite well. I love watching your Instagram because you're always silly on Instagram. And I always wonder to myself, you know, does that sort of filter down? I can imagine your daughter being quite funny.

Yeah, she's a little weirder. I love them. They're both are weirdos. I was going to say, what's the funniest moment they've sort of talked you into or got you into or doing? Oh, God, what have they done? I mean, I'll do anything for a laugh. This is the problem. And they crack me up with the things that they say or do.

I just, again, I have no pride. If they're out and they're doing a silly dance, I'll be joining him with a silly dance. I don't care what other people think. Yeah. You can get away with that now, though. that. I can't do that with my 13 year old. I should be mortified. But that's quite fun when you've got the power

to embarrass your children as well. My daughter's started to start, she pretends to be embarrassed and she attempts to do an eye roll which she can't do, which is great. So she does like head roll. I feel like you were going to revel in that moment when you get there. When she gets to early teams, you're going to be like, oh my God, I'll really come

into my own, aren't I? Do they know that you're off the telly or off the radio? The toddler obviously doesn't. He heard me on the radio the other day and apparently said to my husband, that's my mama! And then the music came on and he went, no, more mama!

I'm sorry to play music. And then my daughter has a, yeah, a bit of an understanding. She doesn't really care. She said something about someone asked her something at school the other day and he made her feel a bit funny. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. It's the first time she's sort of about you. Yeah, and I thought all that.

So we haven't ever had that chat, that not everyone's mummy. Because let's not forget, you were. in one of the biggest TV shows known to man called Ted Lassau. I wasn't that. The kids at primary school are not watching TV. Of course they're not. Of course they're not.

Parents probably are. Yeah, yeah. But also, like, have you given your... And obviously the boy who's two and a half, not so much. But have you given them a little glimpse of your life at all? No, not real. I mean, they see if there's, you know, they look like what... She watched Gladiators.

I did Gladiators because they were a few years ago. Oh, she came to watch that live, actually. Oh, brilliant. And then she really... Yeah. It's a great love for her, actually. That was really fun. And other than that, and she was, when I did strictly, she was about, she was sort of three or four.

But she's not quite. Yeah, but she doesn't that bother. She cared to address for her, so it was more interested in the snacks sort of thing. So she's not, she, yeah, not much respect there, in a good way. Is she into Saturday Night Television just yet? Because of course, we are both featuring in the book. Because I'm very excited about, because I don't know about you. Obviously, we'll get your take on it in a minute.

But I genuinely had the best time. Yeah, really good fun. So this is going to be on ITV in September, starting on Saturday nights. And it is like a new family sort of competition show, I suppose, isn't it? It's sort of like, I mean, you'd loosely say it's I'm a celebrity, but it's nothing like I'm a celebrity at all. And it was, yeah, it was brilliant. So the premise is there were ten, there were ten of us? Ten of us.

Ten of us. Slebs, she says, in a verse of commerce. And you'd sort of all be in these yellow boxes, like sort of a big filing cabinet essentially. Lovely. And the doors would open and you wouldn't know where you were. So you could be on an, the doors could open, you could be on an army of sort calls. You could be on a West End stage. You could be on top of a mountain.

In this country. So you never knew what the challenge was. Separately, you're all staggered around. Well, sometimes you're separately. Sometimes you're together. Interesting. So, yeah, you had no idea what. And once doors open, you could be anywhere, but you also then had to work out what the challenge was.

Right. So was it a mental challenge? Is it a physical challenge? It's a performance challenge. Right. So it was so nerve-wracking. As I've explained, I'm incredibly controlling. Yeah.

So to be taken out for your comfort zone. Absolutely. Terrifying. And we didn't know who else was going to be on it. No. So the first time the doors opened. Right. We had no idea.

We're trying to work out who else is here and what we're going to do. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. Or hosted by Gary Lenica. And yet, it was really fun. Yeah. Really fun experience and sort of terrifying to sort of throw yourself up to the universe about what was going to happen. What was it like for you mentally? Because I think for all of us, we kind of dealt with it in slightly different ways. Some of us were a little bit more shouty and whatever.

So it was a bit more introvert. Yeah. What was that side of the experience like for you? My way of dealing with it was just sort of panic at all times, a lot of flapping. I'm quite a flapper. And I think, yeah, I mean, I think I learned to trust myself a little bit that maybe I don't need to prep and micromanage everything and things could be all right. So I think I learned that from doing it. And I made really good relationships of people.

There were some fab people, weren't there, J.B? Absolutely. So there was us too. There was Ranvez Singh. I love Ranthin. She's one of the best people I've ever met. She's incredible. Sarah Davis, incredible.

We found out we went to uni, the same uni at the same time. but we never knew each other. And there was Jenny from the Chase, so clever. Graham Sooners, footballer, who I didn't know anything about but was hilarious. Then we had like the youngsters. Shekira Khan from Love Island. Danny Arons, who's a streamer, Joey Essex. That sounds like you had a lot of fun.

It was really, and John Burko, who used to be there in the House of Commons. So a really wild sort of mixed group. And it was really interesting. Yeah, and I really enjoyed spending time with everyone And we had these long journeys Where we didn't know where we were going We were blindfolded And so lots of chats on the buses

How long were you away from home then to do that? That was a while Yeah, so the kids were not, didn't love that But we got to go back A little bit during film So that was nice But it's a full on thing, isn't it? When you're doing these sorts of things

You have to say goodbye When we were doing that I wouldn't have known as in depth You know, kind of exactly what you're going through What was that process like? For me, it wasn't so much difficult because our family dynamic is such that those sorts of things do happen periodically every now and again. Not very, very often, but we kind of set up that we just deal with it and it's three weeks and then you go and then you're done. And then what was it like for you?

It was, I mean, similarly, but because my little boy was, you know, a year ago and he was quite pawling at points. He was in hospital for a little bit during that. And that's horrible. That's happened a few times when I've been well. He's had to go to hospital. And it's, you know, it was nothing serious. It was, it was a viral wheeze. Yeah, but you're not there.

Nothing serious. You just couldn't breathe. But, you know, we know there's a process once he goes in and he goes on the little oxygen thing, he'll be all right. But to not be there and to also just feel the stress of knowing my husband is trying to manage him in hospital with another one. And sorting up, pick up and all that. That I feel very, very bad about it is what it is.

And then, you know, here we are and everything's fine. Yeah, exactly. Do you, I was going to ask you about the mental load. Do you still, even though you're out working and away from the home, not all the time, but when you're working, do you feel, is that mental load constant for you? Or are you able just to shift it to your partner? No, no, I'm not. So it's still very much there. Not totally, because there are some things that I have opted out of, like I said, with cooking. Although even with that, you know, I try and like, should we think about what meals we could have this week? I'm like, start pretending. Yeah, like, I'm trying to get involved. Your head chef. Your head chef.

Yeah. I suppose it's like, I'm aware if it was the other way around. Sometimes it's not the cooking. It's like trying to work out what to have. Isn't that sort of thing? So I'm aware of that. No, I'm very. Yeah, that bit's exhausting.

Yeah. And all the WhatsApp groups, I'm all across. And if it's someone's birthday, I'm getting them a present and the teachers, you know, this, that and yeah. So I'm across all of it still. Does it take you a while to reintegrate? Because I find that when I've been away for, if it's a couple of days or even, you especially if it's longer, by the time I come back, they've kind of worked out their system. Yeah, and then I'm like coming back into it.

And disrupting it in a sense because that system now has to be sort of restructured. But actually, obviously, the system when we're all there also works. But it takes a while to get back to that. Yeah. I totally recognise that. Yeah. And then when my husband was a journalist and he would go away for weeks at a time, and it would just be me and my daughter.

And we very much had a good thing going on. And I would be a little bit annoyed when he came back. because I'm like, no, we've been fun, actually. And then you do, you reconfigure and it gets normal again. But yeah, I really, I'm sure. And I come back and I annoy them and everyone's a bit more fractious because I'm there. Emotions are heightened. And do you come back as like fun mum?

Because I always say that about my husband sometimes if he goes away. Yeah, yeah, you do. Yeah, for sure. Like 100% full on. Hell of this. Yeah. I like to do that. And I'm like, I've just cleared up dinner.

I just done this. Yeah, yeah. I think you do because you always. want to spend time with them and you're full of energy, aren't you, for at least five minutes until they deplete it again. And I want to give my husband a break as well. You're balancing all those things. Yeah.

Brilliant. And we've got a quick, quick fire, a quick, quick fire. Go from. Oh, J.B.'s going to do. But I'm going to just quickly ask one less question before we go into quick fire. When your children are grown up, there's a thought. What do you hope they remember most about life at home? That's a big question, isn't it?

that's something we perhaps we don't think about enough, that they felt loved, loved and supported and listened to and that it was fun. I don't know if that's a millennial obsession with fun, but I would like them to think it was. We are having fun, are we? My mother-in-law is staying with us at the moment. She's brought up in Croatia, like under sort of,

communism and she was saying like when she was younger life isn't fun and she would go to funerals and see dead body and i'm like oh god she shouldn't be obsessed about fun all the time i think and i was like she wasn't sort of criticising me she was in general and i was like oh god i think i do really prioritise having fun i don't know i think it's good i don't know i think it's good i don't yeah i think it's great to have fun obviously it's great to have balance that for me i you can't get into grief because i think that's another whole another conversation but you know things like that are really important also to see. But yeah, I don't think going to a funeral every week with an open car skit is quite the one.

Although I didn't have that. At seven or eight, I'm pretty sure it's just like when my family's from the Caribbean, stuff, for that, you never ever have a funeral of a closed car. It just doesn't happen. Really? Think more so now you do. But yeah, I mean, and if I was with my great aunt, for instance, she's like my grandmother, I didn't have any other grandparents because they'd passed before I was born.

But if I was with her for the, you know, for the summer, five, six weeks, whatever it was and she had a funeral and we just all went. It went, wow. So it was just something that, you know what I mean? It's just something you experienced, but I wouldn't always recommend. For me, it wasn't an issue. For my brother, he absolutely hated it. So I think for everyone it's different.

And obviously, at different ages, you could get to grips with certain themes of life. Yeah. I think as they grow up, the big questions are something I'm not prepared for, I think. You know, some of the stuff, I'm like, oh, I can do potty training, but, you know, talking about death. Oh, God, I haven't. It's a lot. I need to think about this a bit more.

of come out of nowhere. Yeah. It's a big responsibility, isn't it? About how you sort of shake it in their mind. Yeah. All right. Well, on that note. On that note.

We'll get a bit lighter. On the podcast. And we'll go quick fire. Nothing too complex. Funal or wedding. No, no, no, no. But no, we got quick fire. Just the first thing that comes to mind, doesn't have to just be a word.

It could be a phrase, whatever. Biggest parenting fail. Oh. Oh, recently. I poured a. I gave my son a big tub of water to play him when it was hot, and I put loads of food dye in that I'd got off Amazon, and I put so much in that it stained his legs,

and he looked pink like pepper pig. Ha, ha, ha, ha, very funny. Then he started acting a bit weirdly, and I said, imagine if he's absorbed all the e-numbers. And then he was mental, and that's what had happened. He was, because you know, when it stains your fingers, that's how much I'd put in. I'd put in so much of this gel.

I'd stained in pink and made him insane, so that that was not a good one. No. Well done me. Listen, it's an easy mistake to happen. What's always forgotten on the school run, if anything? No, we're pretty good, actually, because I'm controlling. We organise.

Good, good. Who says yes most? I think know the answer to this one. Me. Yeah, me. What's your children's favourite thing about you? Would you say? Silly.

I'm silly. Yeah. Yeah. Who apologises first after an argument? Me. Ooh. You weren't. I wasn't expecting that one.

But I would say that, wouldn't I? One parenting purchase, you completely regret. Anything, now we've got two children that there isn't two of. Because it's the sharing battle. Yeah. Kill me. Yeah, you need to have. You can't come back for one.

I remember we went to Wimbledon last year and I bought a pink ball and a yellow ball. Yes. Now, why would you do that? Why would I do exactly? And obviously, everyone's fighting over the pink ball. And I'm like, oh, God. So everything is now exactly the same. Yeah.

Yeah. One thing that no one warned you about. Just how hard two children is, how it's not. People always, well, people did try to say to me. It's not just double the work. It's more. And I was like, sure, sure, sure. But it's like having 25 children. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything motherhood has made you unexpectedly brilliant at?

Very good at pouring a bowl of Cheerios. Let me tell you that. We'll take it. We'll take it. Well, Elliot's been fantastic. Oh, thank you. What pleasure. Really nice time of chat.

Yeah. Thank you. Love hearing all your stories. Thank you for listening to the NetMums podcast and share, like, review, follow, all those things. And we'll see you next time.