The Netmums Podcast - S8 Ep11: Everything you need to know about children’s flu vaccinations with Dr Zoe Williams

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

In this bonus episode of The Netmums Podcast, host Jennifer Howze and Netmums Social Media Editor Alison Perry talk with popular TV doc GP Dr Zoe Williams and learn the surprising facts about the flu vaccine and a hack for treating it at home. Dr Zoe, mum to a toddler and currently one of the resident GPs on ITV’s popular daytime show This Morning, has also presented on BBC’s The One Show, Horizon and Trust Me I’m a Doctor. Zoe reveals why you should be getting your kids vaccinated against flu, why you don’t have to worry about needles when vaccinating your toddler, who can get the vaccination for free – and even a tip about treating flu at home that surprised Jennifer and Alison and may be new to you too!  Listen to all that, plus learn how easy it is to book your child’s flu vaccination and what to expect on the day.

Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of our Netmums podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Howes, and I'm joined today by Netmums' lovely social media editor and veteran podcaster, Alison Perry. Hi, Alison. Hi. Well, this week, we're delighted to be chatting to TV's Dr. Zoe Williams. Dr. Zoe is an NHSGP, TV presenter, mom, and all-round medical guru. And she's here to talk to us about the virus we all want to avoid this winter, flu. Hi Zoe. Hi, hi. Thanks so much for that lovely introduction. We're so delighted to have you here. First of all, I think we'd love to hear a little bit

about your life as a parent since you have a two-year-old is that right well he's 18 months going on to for sure um and yeah wow what a learning curve being a parent is hey they don't they don't prepare you for that in um in medical school um but yeah no it's it's amazing I read something really lovely today actually on um Instagram and it was it was a quote for expectant parents expecting their first child. And it's kind of saying, you know, all the bad stuff that comes with it, you know, it's like you've been sleep deprived before you got through it. And you found stuff difficult before you found a way through it. But the real first are the amazing bits. And there's no preparation in life for that, like just how amazing being a parent is. So it was a nice little thing to read. I think

it's really true, challenging, but amazing. That's so true. And you know, toddlers and preschoolers can be such a handful. I've got four year old twins myself, so I know what it's like. How do you juggle all of that with your busy work schedule, Zoe? I mean, juggle is the correct term. I mean, I hear parents say it all the time and I totally get it now. Every day I am winging it. When things go wrong, you know, the child's unwell or taxi doesn't come or you're running late.

It just, I kind of like every day is, I like to call it exciting rather than stressful. Every day is exciting because yeah, the day is so finely planned. If anything goes wrong, it sends things into chaos. Um, but yeah, a juggle is, is about right. Surviving so far. I feel like I'm getting away with it so far. Yeah. It's so great to hear that when you hear other people say they also feel like they're winging it. My daughter's 18, but I mean, actually, it doesn't feel like it actually gets that much easier in their teen years. It is all just, hey, hey, things coming up here, there and everywhere. Well, that's what I keep hearing now.

You think, all right, the first six months, that's a really hard bit. And then the new challenges that come with the toddler years. And yeah, that's what my friends keep saying is, you know, as they grow up and get older, even when they're in their 20s and 30s then it doesn't really get any easier it just changes like great I don't like hearing that I I want to hear that it gets easier so please stop telling us that I know I know I mean it'd be really nice when he can go to the toilet by himself I'm looking forward to that I wonder if this means as your child gets older they won't be able to kind of fake any illness to get out of school I'm sorry no yeah it will definitely be more difficult for him to fake it um you know all those tricks that I've heard of well I think is it in ET the movie where

it dips the thermometer into the cup of tea first and then you know i'll be i'll have my eye on all of that um but yeah you know and i hope you know i really hope that if my child desperately wants a day off school that badly you'll be able to come and tell me the reasons why we'll figure it out but i might be a bit naive saying that hey whoever's got teenagers out there will be like yeah yeah whatever so zoe you're a doctor health care professional do you find with your child that that makes you more worried or less worried when they get ill oh um i get asked this a lot and it and it depends I think when it comes to actual illnesses um you know so if he's got an infection I do know what the signs to look out for are so I do find it quite I'm able to reassure

myself you know I can measure his heart rate and all of that but I've been a little bit neurotic about a lot of things that were not necessarily necessarily that well trained in as doctors, unless we're pediatricians. So, you know, when he wasn't, he wasn't gaining weight particularly well in the early days and he had quite pale stools for a little while. And so my brain tends to go to that really rare illness or disease that I heard of once and studied and think, and I can't really settle my mind, even though I know that's unlikely. So I think, I think in some ways, a little bit of both. That's a bit of a relief for all us other non-medical parents out there. Yeah, I think as much as it does give you an advantage in some ways, it can be a disadvantage as well. And I think it depends on the parent,

because what we often find with doctors, being a doctor and having all that knowledge and all that education can can mean that you um you worry you you know you over worry when you have symptoms yourself or it means that actually I've certainly got medical friends and medical colleagues who will be having symptoms that are quite concerning but they're able to over reassure themselves as well so yeah I think it can be a blessing and a curse. So let's talk about flu. We've all been so focused on COVID in recent years. So it feels a little bit like flu. It's a bit humdrum. It's slipped under the radar, especially for parents when they've got a lot of other things going on. But this year, it's a big issue, isn't it? You know, why should we be talking about it and thinking about it now? Well, I think, yeah,

it's incredibly important this year in particular that we don't forget and we are thinking about flu this winter season. Experts have predicted that there is likelihood of there being a surge in flu cases this year. And when you combine that with the expected lower levels of natural immunity, just generally in the population, because we've had two winters with very little flu, then, you know, we really do need to, I think, sit up and take notice, because we know that in the winter months, flu, you know, it's advantageous for it, because it's longer, darker nights, we're much more likely to be indoors especially as we're coming towards Christmas where we tend to mix more in groups as well

um it's particularly dangerous for people with certain health conditions um but one of the groups for whom it can be more dangerous as well is for young children especially those under the age of five. Yeah I find that really worrying you know, having two little ones myself. Why is it that they're more at risk when they're younger? Well, younger children, especially at the moment, we know that young children have likely never been exposed. The majority of them have never been exposed to flu before. So they may have no natural immunity at all. I think today we're talking specifically about children aged two to three who are eligible for a free flu vaccine. You know, if you've only been born in the last three years, it's unlikely you've come into contact with flu. Usually,

you know, children might have been in contact with it more and have some natural immunity. And so it's incredibly important, you know, that children are vaccinated because that's their best protection against this. We also know with the very, very young and very, very old, really with any form of viral illness, we know that they are more susceptible to getting some of the complications and becoming more seriously unwell. So that's why particularly in children in the younger age groups, it's really important that we give them that protection that's available for them. So we all know what flu feels like, at least all of us adults.

It's horrible. And when your child has it, they can really suffer. But there's been a low uptake in parents getting very young kids vaccinated against flu. Only a little more than a third of parents are doing it. Why is that? I don't know. I don't know the answer as to why that is. It might be, you know, like you've said at the beginning of this chat, that we've been so focused on COVID. I know as a parent as well, like we've spoken about, can be so busy and you know generally when when surveys have been done in the past i don't know if there's been a survey specifically this year

um but when surveys have been done in the past around the lower uptake of various different childhood immunizations what tends to come out as a reason that on top is not so much that the parents didn't intended to not vaccinate their child just haven't got around to it because we're so busy and, you know, it can slip down the priority list. But as you said, yeah, flu can be a horrible illness for young children, well for anybody really, it makes you feel really dreadful. And also young children can spread it to others who are more vulnerable, like their grandparents or like younger children, babies who can't be vaccinated. And it can lead to serious problems in young children as well, such as bronchitis, pneumonia, and painful ear infections. And there's some new data out from the UK Health Security Agency showing that children under five have one of the highest hospital admission rates for flu

out of all the age groups. And there was one particular week in November where it was estimated that over 200 children under five were hospitalised, suffering from serious complications from flu. So, you know, it is really important. I think that we haven't heard so much about flu the last couple of years, but it is important that parents understand that whilst it is relatively rare, younger children can have these, you know can become seriously unwell with flu. And even if they don't, it's really not a very pleasant experience. Absolutely not.

And I think so many parents, you want to be on the lookout for those kind of symptoms. And you don't want to necessarily take them in to the doctor if they're just going to say, oh, go home and give them fluids. What are the kinds of symptoms that parents should look out for? And what are those telltale signs? I think I definitely remember this and even have had it with my older child where, ooh, when should I take them to the GP? When should I call 111? Or when is it just that they're, they're feeling quite poorly, and they need they need all that kind of home care that we can give them?

Yeah, well, the commonest symptoms of flu are sudden high temperature, and aching body and a dry cough. And in most cases, cases you know whilst a child might feel pretty rotten giving over-the-counter medicines to make them feel better you know making sure they're well hydrated in most cases the symptoms will get better on their own. Important to mention that antibiotics for simple flu infection antibiotics are not recommended, they don't work, they don't do anything to alleviate the symptoms or help them get better any quicker from the flu virus because it's a virus. And antibiotics, obviously, when taken inappropriately, can cause side effects like diarrhea. So in most cases,

you know, if a child is coping with it well, then giving them over the counter medication, really make sure they stay hydrated, call the doctor for a 111 for advice if you're concerned, but in most cases they will get better on their own. But never underestimate your gut instinct as a parent. If your gut just tells you something's not right and you feel concerned, then as doctors, we really do appreciate and recognise that that's an important sign. And also, if your child's deteriorating quickly, which children can do, if they've got something serious, not always, but they can deteriorate over hours very quickly, then that's a red flag. And, you know, that means get some urgent advice.

And what about over-the-counter remedies? Are there things that we can just have in stock, you know, in the house that we can dish out? So parents will often ask me, should I give paracetamol or should I give ibuprofen? And the answer is you can give either or, or you can give both. And you, you know, usually what parents might want to do is stagger them because you can give four doses of paracetamol in 24 hours and three doses of ibuprofen. And the dose that you give depends on the child's age. So the instructions are always on the bottle. And if you're not sure, have a chat with a pharmacist. Pharmacists are brilliant at giving you that information. And that way you can stagger it. And, you know, in some

instances, you might want to give your child both paracetamol and ibuprofen at the same time. For example, if they've been feeling really unwell with a high fever and lots of symptoms and headache, and you've held off giving them any medication, then you can give the first dose of both together to really get their symptoms under control. It is safe do that great um and what is the best way for us to protect our kids from flu i mean my kids go to preschool and they're basically coughing in each other's faces and there's no you know i mean they're good at washing their hands these days but there's just there's no personal space so how what can we do to protect them from flu well i, I think all those measures that we've learned, you know, the hand washing, the mask wearing, the keeping space, you know, that does prevent viruses from being able to spread. But, you know, younger children are probably, the new generation of younger children are probably better at that than any of us have ever been.

But actually the best protection is really giving them the vaccination. That's absolutely their best protection against getting seriously unwell from flu anyway. You know, it's not going to protect them from encountering it, but it's the best protection against them getting seriously unwell. And it's also the best protection because we call children super spreaders often when it comes to flu. It's also the best protection for other vulnerable members of the family as well. So, you know, if you are getting together, it takes about two weeks, really, for the vaccination to be fully active.

So, you know, if families are thinking about getting together over Christmas and, you know, people with long-term conditions or older members of the family are going to come together, then, you know, I would urge families to think about getting their vaccination sooner rather than later. It's all those lovely cuddles. All those lovely cuddles. We don't want to give those up. Those germy cuddles.

I know. And I think young children, they need to learn that they can interact with each other. They need to have all those cuddles because actually that's really important for our health as well. So hand-washing when you come home or you know before you eat those are really good practices um but yes we don't want to stop our

children from interacting and mixing with you know we've had too much of that already the past few years yeah um now my kids like most kids are not fans of needles um we've done all of the vaccinations and it hasn't been a pleasant experience but we've done it i was really relieved to find out that the flu vaccine isn't given to children via a jab is it no it's not so for most children almost all children um it's given by a nasal spray so it's really simple straightforward um it's just a spray up the nose and it's all done so yeah no need to worry and you're as a parent myself exactly the same obviously it's just a spray up the nose, and it's all done. So yeah, no need to worry. And as a parent myself, exactly the same, obviously, it's important to make sure the little ones do have those jabs. But it's just another factor, I think, isn't it, when you're considering it, it's something else that can make you put it off or delay or, you know, think, oh, do they really

need it? But it is, it's really straightforward just to squirt up the nose. Some children, if they have certain conditions, then the nasal vaccine might not be suitable for them. And in those scenarios, they would be offered the jab instead. But yeah, for the vast majority of children, it's just a quick squirt of the nose. So what about side effects? Should we, once we have our children vaccinated for flu, should we expect certain side effects? They can have some side effects, but they tend to be mild. And those side effects are not necessarily caused by the vaccine. Well, they are caused by the vaccine, but it's your immune system responding to the vaccine. But they do tend to be very, very mild.

So the types of things that you can expect your child to experience is a bit of a runny or blocked nose um a slight headache feeling a bit tired a bit of loss of appetite which should only last a day or two so so very mild and usually you know just a few cuddles are enough to to manage that so who can have the flu vaccine is it is the whole family eligible to get to get vaccinated and how do we go about getting it yeah so so it's not the whole family eligible to get vaccinated? And how do we go about getting it? Yeah, so it's not the whole family that's eligible, but several members of the family. So there are around 33 million people who are eligible for the flu vaccine this year.

And it's particularly people within certain vulnerable groups. So children who turn two or three before September this year are eligible. And the best way to book that vaccine is through your GP, contact your GP surgery. All primary school children from reception class to year six, and all year seven to year nine children in secondary school. And most of those children will be vaccinated in school from the in-house vaccination programme. And the other group of children that is eligible, any child from the age of six months all the way through to age 17, if they have a long term condition such as asthma, for example, then they're eligible. And if they don't get it as part of the school programme, then you can contact the GP to arrange that.

And then with adults as well. so anybody who's pregnant and people who have certain long-term health conditions and anyone who's aged 50 or above are eligible as well and best way to check if you're eligible is just go into the NHS website it's nhs.uk forward slash winter vaccinations. Yes I've used that tool it's so easy to use and I do fall in that category though I'm not going to tell you which one of those I am that's time enough leave us guessing yes I'm a woman of mystery love that so um of course you know talking about logistics it's a busy time. It's colder, it's darker earlier. Running these family errands is harder to fit in. So when parents are kind of arranging, you've said you can talk to

your local GP surgery and you can find out online via the NHS site. A very important question, do families have to pay? Yeah. So I think all those groups I just talked about, no, you don't have to pay. So those groups that are eligible for the free NHS flu vaccine. So again, children aged two or three, if they turn two or three before September, you can book their free flu vaccine through the GP surgery. The school aged children right from reception class through to year nine, that should be arranged in school. But if they've missed it, then do get in touch with the school or get in touch with your GP, because it's really important. You know, sometimes they're offering it just on a particular day. And if your child's missed school, for example, on that day, then they can still get the flu vaccine.

It'll just need to be arranged separately. And yeah, and if you're not sure about any of it, you're just not sure what to do or you want some more advice that's specific for your child then have a chat with a nurse or a GP at the GP surgery um or have a chat with the school again. My kids actually my whole family um had the flu vaccine last year um so do they need it again this year? Yes so so flu one of the things that's quite interesting about flu, if you're interested in science, is that it kind of slightly can change its coat every year. So that means that sometimes the flu vaccine itself might alter year on year as well. So for that reason, because the flu changes, it is important to have the vaccine each year. I think we'll definitely be

spreading the word here on Netmoms social media. We know it's so important to kind of remind busy parents that the solution is out there. Can you tell us again the URL that everyone can visit to find out if they're eligible and also kind of next steps for them? Yeah, so I think most of the information that we've spoken about today, and especially to find out if you're eligible and also kind of next steps for them? Yeah. So I think most of the information that we've spoken about today, and especially to find out if you're eligible and where to go, it's nhs.uk forward slash winter vaccinations. And I think, yeah, I think really the bottom line for me is I know that that is the main reason why people don't get their children vaccinated is just because they haven't

got around to it. And I think if you haven't got around to to it yet now is the time because Christmas is coming up and you know it's best protection you can give them against getting any serious complications of the flu and also spreading it to other members of the family is that little nasal spray it's safe it's effective um so you know it's a no-brainer excellent. So we can still have the we can have the family cuddles and the nice kind of warm winter inside. We need the family cuddles. We need them more than ever. You know, we just want it. We want to hold our family close, don't we? We want to we don't want to feel restricted. We ideally, you know, we get together at Christmas and that's what Christmas is, is all about.

So, you know, it gives that extra layer of protection, that extra layer of confidence. And, you know, it is really simple, free and straightforward. So I feel really reassured after this conversation. Zoe, thank you so much. Oh, I'm glad. Thank you. And I think new information too, even with the information about OTC, over-the-counter medications and what we can do at home,

the signs, it's been really helpful. Zoe, thank you so much for coming and talking to Netmums today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad that you found that reassuring. I'm glad I was able to share some new information with you as well. Well, and we hope to see you again soon.

Absolutely. Thank you so much.