The Netmums Podcast - S8 Ep6: Nothing but the whole truth with Kerry Katona

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

As one of the most recognisable faces in showbiz today, Kerry Katona has seen more than her fair share of ups and downs, all played out under the glare of the public eye. Her chat with Wendy and Jen couldn't have been more honest and open, and her latest book "Whole Again" was released on the 13th October and is available in all good book shops now.

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollich. And me, Jennifer Howes. On this week's show... Honestly, I've been slicing and dicing that many bleeding times. I like a fat pat for my gear, love. I've got the instructions tattooed on my bum. I also put them together in the morning. But before all of that...

Hello, hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode. I am talking to you from the house of the damned today. There's projectile vomit from the small one. There's snot from the husband. I am currently the only person in my whole house. Even the dog is ill. I'm the only person who's not ill. So I feel like it's coming my way, Jen.

It's coming. Oh dear. Oh dear. It does kind of rip through families like wildfire, doesn't it? I never thought I'd say it, but I miss the days of COVID where you could legitimately lock yourself in a room so that no one else could get it. And now I'm like, oh God, you mean I've still got to feed you and look after you? Anyway, we have the bubbliest, happiest, sunniest guest today.

Tell us who she is, Jen. Yes. So this week we have Carrie Katona she is a singer who achieved fame with Atomic Kitten at age 18 she's been on numerous reality shows including being winner of I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and a runner-up in Celebrity Big Brother and kicking our producer Dave off celebrity dancing on ice it seems indeed I didn't know anything about that. And she's got a new autobiography out called Hole Again. Now, Kerry is a mum of five and she's had some pretty high profile and frankly,

serious trials and tribulations in her life. So many more than most people have in a lifetime, poor Kerry. You talk about this in your book hi by the way guys hi I think that's the longest I've ever been quiet ever that was so hard now quiet for two minutes and I'll ask you a question then you can talk all you want deal deal so I wanted to say in your book you talk in pretty unflinching detail and there are some pretty shocking revelations in there to say the least you've had loads of media coverage loads of judgment loads of shit thrown at you why was this level of detail

for the book so important to you. I actually thought it was going to be therapeutic to get it off my chest. And it actually traumatised me. I've been asked for the last five years to do another book. This is my third one. I'm only 42. And I kept turning it down, turning it down. I thought, you know what?

Now's the time. It's right. I'm in a really good place. Really happy. The happiest I've ever been. Whether I remain that way, who knows? We don't know. Just, I just thought the time was right.

I thought it'd be a grieving process as well, but it turned out to be really, really traumatic. And I'm still traumatized by it, if I'm honest. Was the trauma, was it from going back and revisiting those moments? It felt as if it was all still real. I haven't dealt with it. As I was doing it, my hands were clawing, my toes were curling and I was sweating. It's fear, so much fear and anxiety. George has only passed away for three years. It still doesn't feel three years it still doesn't feel real that still doesn't feel real that george isn't here anymore but i think he he did such a number on me and the

children the children's a part of the book as well i wouldn't have done that without their permission i won't put that out there about them molly read the book lily read the book hyde read the book things was taken out the book because it's also it's not just my story it's their story and there's only so much of their story i can tell because that's not up to me to do that's on someone they're ready so it's a tough one it was it was a tough one but I've done it now and then you write the book and then you forget you've got to promote it and go through it all again well I was just gonna say are you happy you wrote it? You say it was traumatic. Are you happy it's out there now,

or do you wish you could take it back? Halfway through the book, around my age, it opened council and said, I don't want to do this now. I don't want to do it. There's something with abuse that you feel so ashamed and guilty. I felt ashamed. I feel ashamed, and it was... Every time I got a good idea, I'd say, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry, because it was every time i got a good idea i'd say i'm sorry i'm really sorry because it was my fault i knew what buttons i was pressing there's just asking explain this is a shame and guilt and

i don't know it's anxiety i didn't want to do it but the book only came out on Thursday and the DMs I'm already getting from women and a few men who are saying thank you so much and that was and I kept thinking you know what if this helps one person just one then it's been worth it because there's no way I've been through what I've been through all the shit I've been through since I've been born there's got to be a reason for it and I really believe that reason to help others because I should be dead I should be I'm not a myth. You've written really openly frankly about coercive controlling abusive behaviors at the hands of George what is your advice for anyone dealing with that kind of thing in a relationship you you you are as you say here you've come through the other side you're still traumatized by it but you're

happy what would you say yeah so you know what it's actually a real tough one because each situation is so so different see even now with my relationship with Ryan, like when my nan died, when George was alive, I drove up there, saw her quickly, and then George was by my side. I couldn't go anywhere without George. And then when my auntie died, when I was with Ryan, I was up north for nearly a month. I was living down south. I kept going to my mum.

Why is Ryan not ringing me? He doesn't love me. No, why is he not all over me? Why is he not here? Because coercive relationships and controlling behaviour, I thought because he loved me that much, that's why I get a good eye. It's only because he loves me.

It's just because he loves me so much. So I am still trying to get used to being in a relationship where it's like oh this this is normal then so I can go to the shops without you because when I was with George he did the cooking the cleaning the skill runs the shopping and most women go that's bloody brilliant that where can I get one has he got a brother well that wasn't the case at all it was a real I am a very independent person I've lived on my own since I was 16 I've always had my own money I've always worked but when I met George because he wasn't in the industry I gave him some of my power which he then took all my power away from me so I became

really withdrawn and I couldn't function I was drinking the day. If I had to go and do a school run for whatever reason that he allowed me to, I'd shit myself. I thought, I don't know what I'm doing. It's like I feel so codependent on him. It was so difficult. And what made me walk away, and I used to wake up every day and I'd look at George and I really fancied him. Even after a good night's, I thought, for look at George I really fancied him even after a good night

I thought for your fix you know I always fancied him and this one time he he looked at me in the face and it was about

me going on to my brother and he was saying what he was going to do with the kids or whatever and all I saw in that moment was pure ugliness just pouring out of him and my Molly

this one time he had a knife and he went he looked at me he had a knife and he went he looked at me oh he had a knife he was in the kitchen and molly gave me a look my eldest daughter of pure weakness i thought what am i doing i end up in foster home because my mom's fella stabbed her told her he was freddy krueger and he i pulled the knife out he wanted to cut also put choppers up and put us in the fridge he wanted me mum to help me down and my mum went through and i was like i'll never go through that and there i was 20 odd years later in the same

relationship with my kids looking at me and i'm thinking what the fuck are you doing carrie what are you doing so was it the kids that, is that what gave you the strength to get away? Yeah, Molly ended up leaving. She ended up moving over to Ireland. But yeah, it was definitely the kids. I just found it in a strength. I don't know where it came from.

The only advice I can give to somebody is run, fucking run. Sorry for swearing, but run. Because I know if I had a say, I'd be dead. I know it in my heart. My mum knows it. Because I know if I had to say it, I'd be dead. I know it in my heart. My mum knows it. The kids know it. I know I'd have ended up being dead.

I think also what you're saying there is when people don't really understand the dynamics in those relationships, how they start out, and they are good, they do feel nice. It feels like a lot of attention. It feels like a lot of, you know, oh, being looked after and finally I can quit having to be in charge of everything. And it just keeps changing and changing.

It was my own doing as well. I look at George, he just got out of jail. I have a bit of you. That's what I wanted because I wasn't right in the head. You have to bear in mind, the way I was brought up, I was brought up with four sets of foster parents, three refugees. I was doing drugs with my mum from the age of 14. My mum was always with bad guys. I mean, I can't even tell you this one guy she was with hung a baby out the window when I was a kid. My mum would go off on dates. I was like eight years of age looking after myself, making myself ketchup bodies because my mum would be on the piss somewhere.

And I didn't really know any different. So that, now if I'd have met Ryan 10 years ago, I'd have been, you're boring. That's because it was safe. I didn't know what safe was because my mum didn't have it modelled. And even though I might have a what safe was because my mum didn't have it modelled. And even though I might have a lot of anger towards my mum, I've got to remember to myself that she was once a baby born with no blueprint because my mum was in homes and things like that.

I didn't know any different. It's not when they go, oh, well, Brian's a good dad, isn't he? No, he wasn't a good dad. He was in Australia for seven years. But because he was still on the phone to the kids every blue moon, to me, that't a good dad. He was in Australia for seven years. But because he was still on the phone to the kids every blue moon, to me, that was a good dad. I'm a product of an affair, so I never got to meet my biological dad.

So I didn't have a blueprint for that either. So I never wanted to be rich and famous. I wanted to be a mum and a wife and have that unity. That's all craved so badly. That's why I probably end up going into fame because I wanted to be loved like when I won the jungle oh god everyone loves me you know because I never had it from home you know when you sit there watching your mum trying to kill herself constantly and I'm like am I not good enough mum that self-worth goes so I

I went to seek it elsewhere and that way's why I've become a performer, an entertainer, making people laugh, making people cry. And then when I met Brian, my 90s shiny armour took me away from my mum's council flat where everyone's doing drugs and heroin, all kinds of shit. That was great. But when Brian left me, you lie down with dirty dogs, you're going to get fleas. And I went straight back to my old roots.

And because the unity had broken down, not only did I feel a failure as a wife and as a mother, I felt failure as a woman. You know, so I was like, oh my God, I've got to get married again. You know, that's what it was. So I married my mum's drug dealer. But I got Max and Heidi from that. You know, every relationship at the back of my book, I do dedication to each of my husbands because I'm so eternally grateful to them I have no hatred towards them I've got no resentment towards them I've got no hatred towards my mum I've got to be thankful and blessed because I am so so blessed to still be here I've even got it here I am so blessed and so lucky to have turned it all around

and I'm here to tell my story and that's why why I'm on here, so that I give people some kind of hope. You're so unbelievably candid about all this. And what's really refreshing is you take your role in it. You don't just blame everybody else for the stuff that's happened. You know the part you've played as well. But is there such a thing as too much exposure? Do you wish sometimes you could put it back in the bottle and say, oh, no, take it away. I wish I'd never said that um wishing like almost regretting I don't live with regret because there's nothing you can do about it I I regret nothing because it's made

me who I am today and it's put me on the path I'm on today my relationships with the papers have also been like an abusive marriage and it it has. I've needed them. They've needed me. I kept going back, kept leaving, going back. And then they're writing about me when I didn't want to be written about. That's the only way I can describe it. Yeah, there were times. No, I'll never forget, right?

So when I joined Atomic Kitten, and we got a record deal, we have to go and see a lawyer. And each one of us had to tell our story about our past to make sure that nothing was going to come out about us the more famous we got anyway I think Tash went in there she left about 35 minutes Liz about 35 minutes three hours later well the guy who I used to call dad, his dad I called granddad, but my mum left him for my granddad. So my granddad became my dad and my dad became my brother.

Then she left him for a woman. I did pastry modelling. I'm a product of an affair. And we were just there for hours. So when Atomic Kid became famous, out of the three of us, I was the one who got the attention and the big tits the blonde hair the gob the pretty one but you know and I had that much skeletons in my closet the press home did on that do I wish any of that came out it'd be nice I was simply alive but he wants simple he wants boring you know on my deathbed at least you can say it was colorful

yeah I also I think there's something really powerful about not pretending to be someone other than you're not unapologetically as well may I say well let's talk for a minute about your children yeah so five lovely children you recently shared a picture of you with all four of your daughters and you also have a son. You've also spoken about, because you have this kind of blended family with different fathers, you've talked about how your eldest two have felt hurt that your ex, Brian McFadden, is a better dad. They believe he's a better dad to his new toddler daughter than to them. I think, you know, there are a lot of blended families out there. I'm one of them. So how do you respond to that?

You know, when they told you that? They haven't come out and said to me, because again, this is a lot of stuff that was in the book that I've had to take out because that's their story to tell, not mine. All I'm saying is, I know, I see my girls

and I know, bear in mind, Molly was three and Lily was one with me and Brian split up you guys probably have a better memory of what mine and what my kids do of me and Brian the first time me and Brian been in a room together was Molly's 21st now that was weird for Molly

she's never had us in the room together so I know that it hurts them I know that he's not hurting them purposely it's just I think as you get older as a person you get more patient, your life's different. When me and Brian split up, he went to Australia for seven years, so the children never saw him. So, you know, I was the one doing the sports,

say, the parents' evening, you know, going to the plays. I did all that. Brian didn't do any of that. So I do know that, you know, if he's at a party with Ruby, I'm sure it hurts them. That's not them telling me or saying it out loud, because I don't want to say that at part with Ruby, I'm sure it hurts them. That's not them telling me a lot, saying it out loud, because I don't want to hear that. But, yeah, it does. It hurts them.

But that's life, isn't it? You know, we're all going to have these issues. It's life. Families change. People move on. But you've been there constant. Are you really close to them as a result of that? Yeah, Molly's on the phone.

Like,lly lives in ireland so molly moved to ireland when she was 16 she did like brian doesn't live in ireland like make that clear so i say molly lives in ireland everyone thinks that molly lives with her dad no he lives in rochdale with a wonderful partner may i say danielle he's mrs he's absolutely lovely um no so molly i always feel bad, you know, I feel bad talking about Brian sometimes, for her and for my Ryan, because Brian's famous, people want to know that story.

But it was, what, 18 years ago? And no one can seem to get over it. But I do feel bad because he's got a relationship. Now, I've got my relationships, and this is not me having to dig at him or he's moving like anything because I wish him nothing but better, you know, but we do have children together. And the only reason why I speak about it is as a mother,

I see the hurt in their eyes and that hurts me. Yeah. I think even if both parents are, you know, with the best of will, that there's always that challenge, right? When you're, when you have children who don't live with their father or their other parent or don't have much contact, that it's always a challenge to, I don't know, keep everybody on an even keel or keep them center stage, so to speak. It is really tough.

I mean, Molly's 21 now and Lily's 19 and they're both great. And I think everyone should have therapy. Everybody should have therapy. Even if you come from the most normalist of normal lives. I think it's always good to go talk to somebody else. I've encouraged my children, all my kids to get that. But there's no such thing as normal. Let's say society. Society, they're the ones who put you in this bracket and this box especially here in in england we have such a a snobbery camaraderie about things how life should be and you know how many people are allowed to sleep with and one should be married

once and that's the end of it you can never be you can never get married again that you know it's we have such a way of this, how life should be. And it's like, who sets the rules? Because they tell you, they say, they put you in that bracket. If you're from a working class background or an upper class background, you know, it's different. I'm sure I'd be treated differently if I wasn't from a council estate. 100%.

But even the papers, I mean, me and my other half was watching The Chase the other day. I'm actually really good with my general knowledge, really good. And one of the chasers made a joke about me to imply that I was thick. And me and my other half were,

what? I'm one tipping point. Because, I think, because of the way I'm portrayed, because I'm a loud mouth, because I'm in foster home, because of this, that I'm some kind of low class. It was like when I was in foster home, in school, like some of the teachers would treat me differently

because in foster home, as if I was a bad kid. I was a bloody great kid. It was only when I became an adult that I kind of messed up. But it is, people judge us so differently because of our upbringing or where we're from, not who you are on face value. It's interesting you talk about judgment because I wanted to ask you about OnlyFans.

What's it like? Well, what's it like when you go to the cinema or you go and watch Love Actually every year and there's that scene with Martin Freeman and that bird from Gavin and Stacey you know the scene I'm talking about I just show a bit of nipple

you've got Natalie Portman on Black Swan masturbating you've got Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise grinding on each other I show a bit of nipple it's like

your poor kids must be embarrassed why does no one say that to Nicole Kidman because she's putting a bit of nipple, it's like, your poor kids must be embarrassed. Why does no one say that to Nicole Kidman? Because she's put in a class of society. You should go into theatre, darling. Am I right? You're right. You're totally right.

I also want to say that I watched stupidly Love Actually last Christmas. I'd forgotten that scene. I watched it when I'm a 10-year-old. I wasn't bloody laughing. I was like, oh, Jesus, I'd forgotten that scene. I watched it when I'm a 10 year old. I wasn't bloody laughing. I was like, Oh Jesus, I'd forgotten this bit. That's not me,

but no one would call my only fans anyway. Mine's in over 18, but it just goes to show how, especially women were treated differently because of our upbringing, because I didn't go to Sylvia Young, darling, you know, oh,

your poor kids. They must be so embarrassed by you. And Nicole Kidman's kids are embarrassed of her. Are they? Does anyone say that to her or Angelina Jolie when she's simulating sex in her Hollywood films, like she's winning awards for or getting Oscars? When anyone says anything about OnlyFans, it's like...

I think every year... I mean, I started out as a page three model anyway I had a great set of tips on me I wasn't going to be a rocket scientist so that was my get out I was a pretty girl I used what God gave me I mean half my body's not mine now anyway

Did you just say half my body's not mine now anyway? Honestly I've been slicing and dicing that many bleeding times I like a fat pack of my gear love I've got the instructions tattooed on my bum how to put me together at morning i was about to say where are the instructions they take a long time to build and you need an alan key or a ryan key a ryan key i like that one so you've said you think lily should go on love island do you reckon she'd smash it yeah because lily's not your typical

see all the girls that go on there, Lily's a scruffy little bastard, I'm not going to lie. She really is. See, my 15-year-old Heidi, I said to her, what do you want to do in your new school? She went, I want to be Molly Mae. And she's so insecure. When I watch her take a picture, she doesn't show her face.

She's putting filters on. Why don't I look like this? Why don't I look like that? And I want our Lily to go on there and be like a scruffy little bastard like she's at home and show other teenagers that that's okay so you don't have to be putting a face full of makeup on

I mean I never wear makeup anyway you don't have to be putting a full face of makeup on you don't have to you know putting lashes on and by all means I I don't want to be a hypocrite. I have my surgeries.

I've had Botox. But I'm 42. I'm entitled to it. I'd give birth to a bloody orphanage. Do you know what I mean? I'm entitled to tweets and peeps. But these bastard 25-year-olds are all looking the same. It's like, enjoy your tight skin while you've got it.

You know, they're all such baby individuals individuals you know and yes i'm i've chased me because i'm getting older i mean i feel i'm entitled to that once you've had your kids and you know you start getting into your mid-30s start tweaking do what you want there's nothing wrong with it it's like getting a teeth pull these days isn't it you know but i think teeth whitening yeah i think it's so normal these days, but I think there should be an age limit on it. I really do. I think enjoy your life. Don't live by what other people tell you. No, don't be defined by other people's opinions. Because that's how I lived for so many years. Ladies, think about now, though, like 10, 20 years from now, you'll look at a picture of yourself now and you'll go, oh, my gosh, I looked amazing.

I was so youthful. At 21, I was married with a child, but I was in a unique situation. I was famous. I was a pop star marrying another pop star. The troubles I had was, I mean, we were so, so poor that my nan used to get arsed off of her jumble say. She bought me some shoes once that gave me varucus. I know. And, like, we used to live in...

I mean, I got put into a semi-independent house. And I remember I was that poor. I had this gig lined up. I think it was only £50 for this gig, a dancing gig. And I got my period. And I couldn't afford to buy sandwich towels or tampax. I really needed this £50. So I sold my parrot for £20.

I could go buy the tampax so I could make a £30 profit. Oh. Yeah. It was really bad. I used to go cash my mum's gyro. And my mum would go on piss for like three days on the end. I'd be like nine years of age, living on ketchup butters.

I'd been on every side of the coin you can possibly think of and then go into bankruptcy and lost it all again. But even now, my Molly and Lily, when I was ridiculously rich, like a multi-millionaire, I had all the cars and the kids at private school I mean I got all that again now but back then I uh I saw a change in my Molly and Lily so I took them to a refuge uh that was an ambassador of and we bought all the

kids in their toys it nothing expensive but to show them because you've got to bear in mind my children have been born into this industry they've been born with kerosene they know no different whereas i come from really struggling so we do these things just to like i took him back there to show him that not everyone's brought up or as lucky as what you are so every year we have everything and it goes back into the universe and goes back to the universe and goes back to the charities and goes back to the the refuges and things like that but you're a you're a patron to uh charity that deals with mental health and that kind of thing is that right i'm not patron what i what i do everything for all my every charity gets in touch with me i'm a massive advocate for it

i was diagnosed with bipolar back in 2005. I was absolutely and utterly ridiculed and crucified because of a medication I was on that gave me a side effect of speech, slur. And I was accused of being alcoholic and a druggie. And listen, I've shoved enough shit up my nose. I've drank till cows come home. I've got no reason to lie at all.

I've done it all, done everything you can possibly think of. That was pure bipolar medication. Why would I lie? I actually went and did a drug test, an alcoholic test. It was all clear, but no one cared. But the way I was treated, looking back on it, was just horrendous. And I like to think I've been a beacon for other people not to get treated like that that made me suicidal that did I mean I was literally like I went on

the show absolutely normal in my head well I won't say normal and um my speech was slow and it was like um I remember Fern was sat there she was was reading OK! magazine about this article and she says to me, you say you like your drinking. In this article, Kerry, in this OK! shoot, you're in Marbella around the Pearl Neck in shots. Are you an alcoholic? And I'm like, I'm 28 years of age, in Marbella, without my children, of course I'm necking shots.

And with my speech being slurred, because, you know, your speech is a bit slurred. Well, it's because my medication, I took it at midnight last night. I have something called bipolar. Not once did they say, oh, oh, what's bipolar? What is it? And what medication you're on? No, they never.

But I guarantee if they went home every night and opens a bottle of red wine and drinks that in front of their teller, I don't drink at home. But I guarantee that's what happens because I'm on holiday at 28, getting off my tits, and I was. I'm not going to lie. But look how that's changed. You know, if you were on this morning talking about bipolar now,

everyone would be celebrating you for raising the issues of mental health and it's great how it's changed but we can't forget what it was like and how you were just totally shredded for it I feel really blessed I got through it and I have a resilience so deep down inside me that just I keep you can knock me down but you won't keep me down I'll decide on when I get back up, but I'll never forget coming from the show, which is shown in London and driving back up north. And as I'm pulling up to my house, it was camera crews and paps.

I'm thinking, what the fuck's going on? Are you an alcoholic, Kerry? Are you this? And I'm like, oh my God, I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is a nightmare. This is a fucking nightmare. Yeah, I mean, oh, my God. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is a nightmare. This is a fucking nightmare. Yeah.

I mean, this is the thing. You've had so many chapters in your life. What's next for Carrie Katona? It's really weird. There's no dramas in my life. I think maybe I was a little bit addicted to it. You know, I didn't know any different. And it's just the only dramas in my life are what

my kids bring me now do you know what i mean their own issues and their own shit that they've got to deal with normal stuff that now like i get a bit that angsty and anxiety thinking oh god what why is it so normal you know my finances my love life my health my kids my career's going from sheriff to sheriff it's all really good kids, my career's gone from showroom to showroom. It's all really good. You know, my manager was texting me saying, call me after you Zoom, I've got some great news. It just keeps getting better.

Isn't that the nicest thing to end on? It just keeps getting better. Oh, thank you for having me. All the best.