The Netmums Podcast - S9 Ep8: The Making of You, with Binky Felstead

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

This week, Wendy and Jen's special guest is Binky Felstead, who's new book 'The Making Of You' was released on the 23rd February.

You're listening to the Netmums podcast with me, Wendy Gollage. And me, Jennifer Howes. On this week's show... Max had just bought these beautiful new trainers that he was so proud of and he was going to wear them to the... and they've still got the bloodstains on them because he can't bear to wash it off. It's a bit gross, but quite cute. But before all of that, welcome to another Netmums podcast, folks. Thanks for joining us. Now, first of all, I have to say that this is snuck in to the podcast, but I've realized that I've started calling people folks. And that is Jennifer's fault.

The Texan who calls everybody folks. Suddenly I'm calling people folks, Jen. How did that happen? Wendy, you'll know you're in trouble when you start saying howdy. Never, never going to happen. Or y'all. I can't even say it without sounding like a twat. Jen, I'm going to let you introduce our lovely guest, please. Yes, we are very excited this week on the Netmums podcast to welcome Binky Felstead, the queen of Made in Chelsea. She starred in the show from the very first episode until 2016 and has also recorded two spinoffs with E4, Educating Binky and Born in Chelsea, which documented her pregnancy with her daughter, India. She's a fitness ambassador and

is currently the face of Reebok and co-founder of the app Bloss, which connects parents with trusted experts for every stage of the parenting journey. And now Binky has written The Making of You, a guide to finding your identity and bossing motherhood which is part memoir and a lot of useful parenting advice all rolled into one welcome binky hi guys i'm gonna go straight onto the book binky because when i read it what i love is how candid you are it's completely no holds barred parenthood gore and all and I'm going to read our listeners my favorite sentence which is my placenta flew out and up through the air before landing on the floor next to Max's feet with a thwack splattering everyone within two meters

of its landing spot with blood it was humongongous, disgusting. So there we go. What made you write a book? So I joined the show when I was probably 19, 20. So I've grown up in the public eye and you've seen me go from a 20 something partying, not having any cares in the world to then becoming a mummy at 26 and actually the first of my friends to become a mummy so as we know being kind of young and frivolous and not having care in the world so getting pregnant especially of the first of your friends is quite a big change and I didn't really have many people to speak to about this change other than my mother Mummy Felstead who if you know Mummy Felstead, is very old fashioned, very good fun, loves a drink, and is quite to the point and old fashioned.

And so she would be my go to to ask a lot of these parenting questions too. And the reason why I wrote the book was because I used to get asked, and I still do most days, these questions about how I've co-parented how I've things like meeting introducing my child India to a new partner Max who I'm now married to and have been for two years so it's a lot of kind of like you said personal as personal parts in the book from being a young frivolous you know partygoer to having India, going through a breakup, meeting someone new, kind of that little bit in between. I had an early miscarriage, which a lot of people still ask me to this day.

And they're saying, you know, it's brilliant that we can see you've had another child and you're having another baby now. So it's, you know, I think I just wanted to kind of put everything that I get asked into one book but I'm not an expert stop bloody asking me just read the book do you know what though I'm not an expert at anything you know all I know is how I parent and I know how my children work parents you know parenting is different every time and um and this is why with my advice, Mummy Felt's advice,

I've got actual, a BLOS expert advice under each chapter. So it's kind of like how I take on things. And then here's the actual professional saying what, how you can handle it and how, like this is how you can go about whatever you want to really. Well, there's certainly,

I mean, there's lots to talk about with the book and we'll circle back to that. But since you brought it up, the question from the folks in the Netmums office who are Made in Chelsea fans, when I told them that we would be talking to you was, what did your Made in Chelsea friends think of your first pregnancy since you were the first to become pregnant? I lost a lot of friends. I've made a whole new amazing group of friends from being a mummy. But the friends that I had before when I was on the show were like, you know, my fun party friends. And actually, they were all a little bit shocked. And it wasn't their fault. I think, you know, it's something they couldn't comprehend. And when they were all going out in the evening,

I was at home with India breastfeeding or just bloody toilet. The worst thing, I remember I was in a group chat with a bunch of girls and it was someone's birthday. And they said, right, you know, we've got the selfie light on, put on your biggest heels and your tightest dress. And I honestly looked at this message and was said, right, you know, we've got the selfie light on, put on your biggest heels and your tightest dress. And I honestly looked at this message and was like, fuck that, I do not want to get on my tightest dress and my highest heels and go and take selfies

and then go to a club. I was just so knackered. And I think that was, for me, like a real, like, oh, my God moment. I'm not in the same headspace as you anymore. And they definitely weren't in the same headspace as me. And I think we just naturally grew apart. And apart and of course the friends that I've still got on the show like Louise, Rosie, Ollie to name a few they they've always been kind of really close

and they've loved the kind of the different stages I've been through and now obviously they're all having kids themselves so wanting advice or like kind of just kind of loving the kind of I can give them bits and bobs from when India was younger or whatever so it's all it's been a natural development and I think what's different is for me it's just been on tv it's been in the public eye so I think uh yeah it's all been a bit of a whirlwind when you went back to how how long ago that was it feels like a different lifetime to be honest all I can remember now is I can't remember life before being a mummy. But I think that's all mums and dads, irrespective of whether you've lived that life on a TV show or you've just lived it in your house. You cannot. I remember I was working in

London before I had my first daughter. And then the idea of going on a train in a pair of heels back into London was just, I think everyone feels that same thing. It's like you shift, your whole mindset shifts and suddenly all that stuff doesn't seem quite as fun anymore. No. But when you do it, you do it hard. Yes. Yeah. I definitely, there needs to be a balance, doesn't there, of kind of the glamorous side and then the got sick in your hair or the running late for school this morning. And I was just like, oh, my gosh, my feet were almost bleeding.

I was running so hard trying to pull Linda along the scooter. I just thought, right, OK. But there's this sort of balance. Yeah. Well, I have a story from Alison, who is our social media manager here. So she interviewed you for her Not Another Mummy podcast. And she said she came out and did it at your home and that then you were running out to do the school run in the afternoon. And so left her in your home and like ran out.

She said, yeah, you know, I wish I would have taken an ashtray or something. It sounds like binky running around and doing the kind of regular parenting things is just a regular part of life. Yeah, I think we all do. We all, we all try and kind of, we all put our family first and everything I do will work around the kid's schedule on obviously pickups and drop-offs. I try and do them as much as I can um I love being a mummy and we all do but I really and I think I'm getting to the stage now we're Indians at school so that's a lot less kind of to think about then I've got Wolfie who um is a hectic he's a toddler isn't he hectic toddler boy I mean I know lots of people say oh there's no difference between girls and boys but India was very different and she was a lot more chilled and Wolfie's just like ripping everything off the walls and up and down the stairs and have to have eyes at the back of my head but yeah I make sure

everything's planned around them I want to try and be I want to be involved as much as possible with the kids my role is to be a mummy and then everything else will fall into place around them you've been the focus of a fair share of criticism on social media over the years, you know, the joys of social media. How do you think it affects mothers, social media and motherhood in general? I think you have to be a pretty strong person to let it kind of bounce off you. And I'm pretty good at doing that. I don't really care for the comments. I don't get a huge amount, so I'm'm quite lucky but if I were to get a comment about my my parenting that I like to press the block and delete button um which is brilliant we can all have we all have one of those so we can

do that I like to think that how I do things is the way the best way I can do it and then and that's all I can do I'm doing my best and that's all we can do so there's a lot of a lot of people out there that will try and criticize, but then I kind of feel a bit dirty nappies, the hormone surge, all that responsibility. And you talk also very personally about how parenting transformed you from, as you were saying, something of a party girl into something else and the difficulties of that transition. What's been the most difficult part of parenthood and being a parent for you? Good question. I think the, I think it's funny because it's kind of made me as well as kind of, it was scary at the beginning. I think just having, you have always got something to worry about now. You are no longer your only responsibility, right? So you've always got, you will never stop worrying about your children. The baby bit is the

actually easiest bit I think because now I'm like okay what's happening you know when she's not with me or when Wolfie's not with me or whatever like it's gonna happen mum says I'm still worried about you now I still have to call my mum if I go out you know to make sure she knows I've got a taxi home um so that will never end and I think that's the bit you love something so much and you can't have full control over them when they're older especially and that really scares me because I like to kind of keep them all wrapped up in the little you know little nest and you can't do that for long that's what that's what I think is going to worry me the most and scare me the most it's not so much what's happening now because I love it I love the hecticness it's always yeah of course

I'm knackered and I love my my in the morning. And, you know, there's moments obviously where we all just go, oh my God, this is, you know, just give me some time. Sometimes I just have to kind of shut the door, take a breath and then go back in. And actually, you know, there's so many different emotions running around with you. And especially at the moment with my hormones,

I am like this, poor Max, this is kind of, doesn't know if I'm coming or going half the time. He's like, I cannot wait for you to have this baby so are you a obviously you're gonna go from two which is hectic to three are you a seat of your pants see how it goes or are you a planner are you a kind of right this is how the baby's gonna like come into the house or are you just like it's a he isn't it you have a little boy yes so he'll rock up and you'll deal with what it throws at you namely poo yeah I'm planning the the giving birth part because that part is the bit that scares me the most and I know I can kind of plan that I've done it before with India and Wolfie and I'm really happy with my decision of how I'm doing it but the same doctor same place and same method hope you know

if it works brilliant if it doesn't we all know that you can't 100% plan these things I've been told by a spiritualist that this one's gonna fly out so if I'm getting any cramps just to go straight to the hospital and no faffing around at home so I'm like I'm not gonna I'm just gonna make sure I'm gonna be at home the whole time for the two weeks before and then I've planned the obviously so India I'm putting India and Wolfie in a room together I mean I'm praying that works she really wants to have bunk beds with him so um that's all being sorted and the baby will have Wolfie's nursery so I'm planning that much but then of course the next stage is, you know, Max is working and he said he'll take a week off and then he'll be,

his office, he's got an office down the road. So if anything dramatic happens, but I'm not planning. I'm not really, like I said, I'm not a planner. I kind of just see how it goes and just try. Yeah. Like I say, try my best to kind of keep everyone above water. It's in the summer though. It's a bit spring to kind of keep everyone above water it's it's in the summer though it's a bit spring baby which I quite like because it's quite chilled you can

don't have to wrap them all up and keep them warm and you know you can put them in the garden and under in the shade and we can have the paddling pool out and India and Wolfie can be you know running around it's going to be kind of envisioning like the happiness and the peace of the other two because I had India and Wolfie um in June around the same time and it was just such it was lovely having summer babies and so I'm kind of envisioning that again for this one even though it's a little bit earlier it'll be spring so hopefully be warm and um yeah sounds very idyllic I have high hopes for you I mean of course my bags will be down here but mean, I'll put a bit of fake town occasionally around the boot so I can still breastfeed. Fake town makes everything better.

Yes, indeed. So you just mentioned spiritualist and a lot of my friends, their ears will prick up about that. People who are quite interested in that spiritualist tarot, that kind of thing. Is that something that is part of your life or that you're interested in? Yeah. Weirdly, Max and I spoke about it on our first date. His mom's also a spiritualist. She actually went to the psychic school of studies where my mom went. It's like Hogwarts in London, basically and they they are really spiritual our family and that's really quite rare to find a partner with the same kind of beliefs and and um family that's you know the same as us as our family so that was really interesting and

it kind of brought it kind of we had something to talk about quite you know in depth um and yeah I I have crystals all over the house. We charge them under the moon. I mean, we've got to rinse them often. We do sage. I have lots of my friends coming round and sometimes I'll play the counsellor role and Max will come and sage me in the house to make sure there's no negative energy in the house.

So it's quite like calming and yeah, it's like a bit it's uh there's a lot you have to do yeah be saged before the birth right I was about to say is there going to be some sage in the birth I mean I'm gonna have to sage the whole place up yeah exactly now I wanted to ask you about the birth because I in researching your good self I was looking at your Instagram yeah and there's a pretty realistic series of videos about your birth with Wolfie. But what struck me, and I want to know the truth to this answer, please. You're so zen in those videos. You're

super calm. When Max stopped filming, are you the screaming, mooing banshee or are you super calm are you just really is that how you do it he took ages to come India was really quick actually and I was expecting I kept being told oh your second one just flies out it was not the case with Wolfie he took ages and I can't remember how it's all a bit of a blur but I had my waters broken in the morning then I had the epidural Then I had the epidural. So I had an epidural. And I remember them just saying, you need to kind of bounce a bit more

because he's just not, there's nothing happening here. And it got to the point where I felt so out of it. I was so itchy from all the drugs. I was just like, I couldn't even keep my eyes open. I was knackered. I could feel the contractions and you could see me on the gas in there. That wasn't doing anything.

And I couldn't, I could barely keep my eyes open. And then eventually. Can we all just note the person crawling behind you? Poppy, by the way. My assistant. Hi, Poppy. You thought you'd got away with that, didn didn't you I think it's so subtle um yeah so and then they're like you need to get the bouncy ball I had the most amazing midwife called Mona and she was so again spiritualist like she's so spiritual and just like calming

it's like we need to get you upright because you know gravity we need to get the gravity going and get the bouncy ball and just start bouncing and start and there was max ready to press the um i was obviously starving because i hadn't eaten since the night before so you're not allowed to eat and um and he was had his his finger hovering over the delivery button ready to press uh order for this pizza that's waiting to think of this piece i think come on come on baby please come out i'm so hungry and then eventually she was like yes this is happening it's happening and then of course the moaning started as you know the pushing started as um I was told to push but I have to say that was that was um it was pretty painful but it was just I was just so

I can't believe I was like I was like floating I was a completely different world it felt like I just was so knackered and so I'm hoping to have a quite a quicker birth after being told this is gonna fly out I'm hoping to have a slightly quicker birth this time around are you gonna film this one I think we'll do I like looking back on them like I loved you uh we filmed Wolfie coming up. Max was obviously just so terrified and kind of a little bit grossed out. Do I go too close to the down there area? Should I keep up this way a little bit more? He didn't really know what to do,

but it was nice seeing the pit where they're pulling Wolfie out and then him being passed to Max for the first time and Max's eyes just watered up. I love watching those back. It's quite special. So for this birth at the moment, you don't have, you're just kind of going to wing it

and hope that it's quicker? No real plans so far. I think I've planned as much as I can. The other bit is all up to upstairs, right? And what's meant to be is meant to be. I'm just kind of going to, I've done it twice before, so I'm confident. But of course, you know, it could be a home birth. It could be a birth in a taxi.

Like my sister-in-law nearly gave birth in the back of her car. So now I know there's always... Or a pub car park, which is what my best friend did. Oh, really? That's quite a great place to give birth, actually. Well, she was on her own because her husband had gone hilariously into the pub to get the postcode because the ambulance people didn't come until they had them. So he went to the pub and her baby was born all by herself on the front seat. I mean, that scenario is just rife for jokes and funny kind of explanations. Well, and he's a really tall Scotsman.

So he then went into Halfords the next day to ask if they had anything to get blood out of car seats. Imagine this kind of burly Scotsman asking how you get blood out of car seats. So if you could possibly achieve one of those, Binky, so that, you know, that'll make a good story. Yeah. I think I'd like to do it where

I'm kind of planning it though to be honest I think I'd like to get I'd like to get as much help as possible with the calming aspect I mean bless Max I mean he he wasn't going to cut the umbilical cord and I as you said the bit of the book where he came around he's like right I can do it came around to cut the umbilical cord and that's when he just saw this thing fly out of my vagina in the air and just like honestly even my obstetrician was just like like there was just he always went silent was he I don't think he's seen that like he's a pretty he's you know he's given you know delivered a lot of babies but he was a little bit shocked he's like and he was covered in my blood and then max had just bought these beautiful new trainers that he

was so proud of and he was going to wear them to the you know and they've still got the blood stains on them because he can't bear to wash it off it's a bit gross but quite cute i don't know where to go from that but it's massive they like honestly i was no wonder you're just i mean i'm feeling so i mean I know we're having no babies are big and heavy but that's the other part you don't think about is how big the placenta is right with them and I take it you didn't cook it eat it turn it into pills any of that jazz not for me not for me well so that actually brings me back to something to do with the book. It's full of so many, as we said, honest revelations and down-to-earth insights about motherhood, helpful advice from some of the experts you've gotten involved. And a key aspect of that is encouraging women to trust themselves, which is something I really liked about the book and kind of is a thread throughout the whole thing

but I want to look at the flip side of that what's the most unhelpful advice you've gotten over the years um I think there's an awful lot of people out there who are very happy to give their opinions when they haven't been asked for their opinions and um having India was where I got a lot of with Wolfie I kind of knew what was going on right so I didn't really kind of ask anything or kind of get much information to be honest because I don't think people bothered but having India I think I got a lot of a lot of people messaging me saying oh you know hope you're looking forward to having your last shower good luck ever brushing your teeth again without having someone screaming on you and like throwing up like a lot of kind of um scary kind of intense comments like that which turned out not to be really the case you can you

know mum was like this is why i go back to mummy because I remember calling her just in bits being like I don't know what to do I'm terrified of giving this baby any formula because you're kind of programmed not to give any formula this is this should be breast is best which we all know is is the case but mummy was like darling just if you're if she's hungry and you're knackered and the baby's knackered and you know it's just give give her some formula just give her some formula and then I did and I was like oh my god okay fine you know she's a healthy happy little girl and I tried doing the breast as well as formula for a while but I think advice like that from mum who's had three children herself and she's very old-fashioned she said don't don't put so much pressure on yourself and just kind of things like that which I have throughout

the book her advice has been monumentally helpful but I think lots of people just kind of scaring you it's the scaremongering that really kind of is is I just hate I hate it so much I've said this before on the podcast I think but there was a I took my first daughter to the doctor when she was a tiny baby and this little old lady came up and looked in the pram and she was like, and I thought she was going to do the usual, oh, isn't she sweet? She went, not even a hat. And stomped off because it was October and it was really mild. And she just, not even a hat.

And tottered off again. And when you're kind of hormonal and your boobs are leaking that sort of stuff can absolutely floor you can't it it can just whip your legs out from under you and then you spend the rest of the day crying or I did anyway yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of people like that around here where I live where you've got the older older generation kind of giving their two cents and everything you're doing oh you know you shouldn't be letting him going that fast on the scooter without it like things like that I'm just like okay yes I know try like got like the dog in one hand India on the scooter will be like screaming trying to catch up with his sister you're like that's

just not helpful of course you've got to take it like just I mean I you just kind of got to try and find somewhere to laugh it off um I'm looking forward to having a glass of red wine if that happens and just sitting back and just kind of, you know, looking forward to that so much actually. So it sounds like having children really brought you closer to your mom. I mean, you talk a lot about her. Obviously she's a big part of the book, a big part of your life. I mean, even was part of Made in Chelsea. How's your relationship with her changed? Has it become one of those things where now suddenly

you're saying, oh, now I get it what you were talking about? Yes. She's always said, I couldn't wait for you to have your own children so you'd understand how it feels like. But like I said, I haven't got to that stage where she means like the whole going out and not messaging her when I've got home or, you know, I mean, the stories that I haven't told her. You know, I even was going up the King's Road yesterday with a friend. I used to walk up here. I couldn't afford a taxi. So I used to take my heels off after being in raffles and walk back home to Fulham. And she said, if I knew that, oh, my God god I just I'm so glad you never told me that she just would just die with like fear and I'm just that's the bit I'm dreading the most but mummy

and I've always been like we've always been incredibly close we've kind of that you know we go back to when my parents divorced and it was just me and her against the world and my big brother and sister were at university or you know working in London so it was really her and I kind of getting through the next stages of of what was happening with her my father um and yeah she kind of lived with me in London for a bit when I was on the show we had a little spare room for her upstairs and so we would like she'd come down and meet my friends and we had friends over and it was all kind of she was like a proper like party animal but like not in a cringe way but she was just really everyone loved her because she was like the one to speak to about your issues like she's a bit of a kind of a go-to mummy counsellor um so my

friends thought she was really cool and fun and she's loved loves young people and sadly now she's got ms so she can't do anything on her own she's got a full-time carer she's in a wheelchair and that's really horrible for her because up here she's still mummy felstead like kind of wants to have a bottle of champagne every day and like have fun but then she's not able to do anything on her own or or come and see the kids as much she's not able to help ever and you know she'll come over whenever she can for lunch or we're going to see her with the kids but it's different so the relationship has changed in that respect um quite a lot but I think uh she would love to be more hands-on and able to help out but currently she's she's like another well she's gone back to being a child again she's having to be washed and and looked after and cooked for and you know go to the loo

with stuff like do you know what I mean it's it's horrible for her. It must be very hard for you as well to watch that. It is do you know what I think I'm still I'm still coming to terms with it because like I've said and I think if you know who our family we were we she was such it is such a brilliant mummy but I was always going to her um and she didn't look after me we'd have cuddles on the sofa cook me dinner I'm the youngest of three right so I'm very much the baby of the family and I still feel like I am sometimes but I feel like she's unable to be the mummy that I'm used to and I'm still having to come and I'm still having to come to terms with the new mummy Felstead but yeah I think it's a bit for her it's horrific and you know it's horrible seeing her going through all this and obviously I've

just got to try and be as supportive as I can but it is tough. An adjustment for both of you definitely. Yeah. So I'm gonna end with a slightly strange question. Binky is obviously your nickname from childhood so what I would like to know is do the kids have nicknames and does the bump have a nickname? So India's Cakey for some reason. My mum started calling her Cakey for some reason. I think she's like small and sweet like cake. I don't know why, but she's just Cakey and Wolfie is the stir or stir as in mister. I don't know how it's even come. Be like, hey stir. I don't know how it's even come be like hey stir I said what's this I don't know where it's coming from but Max started saying stir and now the stir or mister and actually I think India's going to get a new nickname because Wolfie can't say India so I'll you know we'll say India he'll say

rah rah so she might turn into a rah rah quite soon I love that and my and my mummy fell says Gaga because India called her Gaga and I love all the nicknames. They're all starting from kids, right? So I'm looking forward to what the nicknames will be for the new nickname for Wolfie eventually or whatever. Well, thank you so much for your time, Binky. We will let you go back to the chaos of family life and growing a baby. And we look forward to hearing about your blissfully

moo-free birth when you have the next one. Fingers crossed. Thank you so much. It's so lovely talking to you both