The Netmums Podcast - S9 Ep9: Christine McGuinness on reframing autism, and choosing your battles

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Mum of three Christine talks about her debut kids book, 'Amazing Me, Amazing You' and shares on everything from her eating disorder to her struggles with friendships.

You're listening to The Netmums Podcast with me, Wendy Gollage. And me, Jennifer Howes. On this week's show... It's okay to be different. We are different. We do think differently. We process differently. We see and hear the world completely differently. And it's not a bad thing. But before all of that... Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode. I am feeling just a tiny bit springy, people, just a bit. There's like that little nubbin of spring outside and it's giving me hope that winter's just gonna get lost and spring is coming. And we've got a very chirpy, springy guest on today who I think, well, Jen, Jen,

you do the spiel. Tell us about this lovely lady. Well, today's guest is someone from whom we can all learn a thing or two. I think we will during this podcast. She is an author, model and autism ambassador, a mum to three autistic children and has appeared on The Real Housewives of Cheshire, Loose Women, Steph's Packed Lunch, This Morning and Good Morning Britain, as well as The Games last year. Now she has written a debut children's book called Amazing Me, Amazing You, which we'll be talking a little bit more about. Welcome to the Netbums podcast, Christine McGuinness. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Hi, everyone. Those who listen to the podcast often know that I am not often at a loss for words. Hi, everyone. Those who listen to the podcast often know that I am not often

at a loss for words. Christine, right now I am. Where the hell do we start? There's just so much to talk about. Let's start with the book, because the book made me go a bit wibbly wobbly squishy. It's so sweet. It's kindness. It's friendship. It celebrates diversity. It's about inclusivity. Can you tell our listeners who've not had a look what your book is about? So this is a book about inclusivity. It's a children's book. It's my first children's book. I love to write and I love to read to my three children and I wanted to do something that was very personal from our own experiences of autism mostly for my children to be able to recognise themselves in the characters in the book as well as all other children of course and for the children that maybe don't

know about those with additional needs and don't know about those who are autistic, for their parents and carers to be able to help explain why some of the characters in the book are the way they are in a really child-friendly way. Yes. So, Christine, so the book's published on the 2nd of March. What made you decide to write it now? And how do you see families really using this book? How will it help families? I've always loved to write. I've journaled since I was a teenager. I wrote my first book last year. And like I said, this is my first children's book. And I've done it to help, to help educate, to help autistic children feel fully included and understood and accepted. This book isn't just for children.

I think the adults reading the book to their children will learn a lot and may pick up some of the signs and symptoms of autism that they may not know about. I'm hoping that it helps teach anyone and everyone and it's not just for autistic children. This book is for neurotypical children too, to ask questions, to open their minds, to help understand others. There might be, you know, other children in the classroom that they may see things similar in the characters in the book and they understand why that child is like that. And it might just help them be more patient and more understanding.

So it really is a book for everyone. But on a very personal level, I wrote it very much for my three children, for them to be able to see themselves in a children's book. You've just said that you like to journal, Christine. What do you write about? I try to journal and I'm just like, nah, doesn't work. Never managed to, Christine. What do you write about? I try to journal and I'm just like, nah, doesn't work. Never managed to do it. What do you write about?

A lot of my thoughts. I've always done it on and off, but more so the last year. I've journaled an awful lot. A lot of my thoughts, things that, you know, I think, should I talk about that or not? And when I've got a question question then I tend to stay quiet but writing it down is almost a way of getting it out and keeping it as a memory. I don't look back at it an awful lot, I tend to just keep writing and a lot of my thoughts sometimes I get confused

about myself and by writing it down I tend to, I can read over it until I understand it. I find it really helps. It helps me switch off and it's just something that I enjoy to do. I have to say, I completely agree, Christine. I've kept a journal since I was a teenager and sometimes I do look back and it's just painful because of the utter rubbish that I write. What I'd like to know, do you have a special pen or special types of notebooks you like to write in, or do you just write on whatever's around? No, do you know, I'm extremely scatty with my writing, but I love that and I embrace it now. used to as a teenager in throughout my 20s it would just be any piece of paper any notepad if I had a thought I'd just write it down wherever and things would

be lost all over the place and it used to drive me mad that I wasn't more organized with it that I didn't have a diary like like other people that like to write diaries and you know that like to journal mine was just everywhere but now I quite enjoy it I quite enjoy finding my notes and my pieces of paper in a drawer in a cupboard or in a suitcase when I was away in London and and it takes you back to that little memory and that thought and that that's just how I am that's how my head is it's very messy it's very confused and and I embrace now that's all me well that's very confused. And I embrace that. That's all me. Well, that's the thing about journaling. You could really just totally be yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Because, well, it's personal. It's private. It's a way of just letting things out

and not having to worry about what anyone's going to think because, you know, journals, of course, are supposed to be kept private. So enjoy doing it and this last year some of my thoughts that I've written down will probably remain private forever probably should be burnt to be honest but I love the way you say oh yeah they'll remain private I journal but then you leave them all around the house in suitcases and bits of paper so they're not that private are they the kids will be like mummy what's? I spend a lot of time in the house on the own with my children, you know, but yeah, it's, that's just, that's just how I am. I like to write things down and I'm not very organized with it. So you are autistic and are

a charity ambassador for the National Autistic Society. And much of your recent work has been about autism and this very positive message of celebrating uniqueness, shining a light on neurodiversity. What are you hoping to achieve for yourself, your kids and other SEND parents? To be more understood and accepted and celebrated, celebrated more than anything, and to know that it's okay

to be different. We are different. We do think differently. We process differently. We see and hear the world completely differently. And it's not a bad thing. You know, it's like anything, when you don't understand it, it's scary and it's the unknown. But for parents, if parents are at the beginning of this journey and they've just found out the children are autistic I totally get that feeling of being petrified for the future and not knowing what is going to happen and you know you have a million questions if it is your child going to speak are they going to you know eat different foods one day are they going to get a job are they going to have a relationship all of these worries and concerns that you have at that early stage it does get so much easier once you

understand it so I'm hoping with this book they'll see that you know all of the little things like the children jumping up and down and flapping the hands and that that's stimulating once you understand that actually they really enjoy that it's self-expression it's them being really excited and happy and it's not a bad thing you know you kind of just go okay that's okay that's fine you know how wonderful must it be to to feel that happy that you want to physically show it you know and not just like the majority of adults these days that are just too calm and chill. You know, I think my children have got it right in the way that they're so honest about what they love and what they're passionate about. And again, when you don't understand autism,

you might think, you know, are they being extremely particular with food? Are they being fussy? Are they being spoiled? You know, are they just being particular with food are they being fussy are they being spoiled you know are they just being a difficult child but actually no these are independent strong-minded young children that know what they want that's amazing if we were all a little bit more like that we'd all be in jobs that we enjoy we'd be in relationships where we're happy you know we'd be in friendship groups that we want to be in they're just they're so strong and I'm so proud of them and I think those are the things to celebrate and not look at as that's difficult that's a challenge it's not it's amazing they know what they want and that's incredible I'm still trying to figure it out at 34. You and me both. I was going to say, what had you learned from being a mum with three autistic children?

But I think you kind of just said it there, actually, that celebrate all of the things about them. And you once said, anything is possible with love, support and patience. And I think I love that because surely that applies to all of us, really. Yeah, definitely. You know, and that everyone is different and that's okay. And, you know, everyone develops differently. And again, that's okay. I think, you know, we have been raised in a generation,

certainly I was, where you were given, you know, these kinds of deadlines that your child is supposed to reach they're supposed to talk at this age and they're supposed to be eating solid foods at this age and you know when I was a first time one with the twins I used to panic if if I didn't have the right amount of formula in the milk and you know if they weren't saying a sentence by these many months. And I'd really put myself down for it and think I'm not doing a good job here. I gave myself a really, really hard time because the children weren't hitting those milestones. They didn't go to nursery or preschool or anything.

And I just really blamed myself that I wasn't teaching them good enough. I didn't know that it was because they were autistic. Once I knew that, I really just, I breathed, I let things go. And it was quite a relief once I understood it. And I just thought, you know what? Every single person on this earth is different, autistic or not, norotypical, norodiverse. We all develop and do things in in our own way and

like I said I'm in my 30s now and I'm still just learning to socialize I'm having to push that boundary myself because I know that naturally I'm not a very social person but I want to and I want to build friendship so I'm trying to do that more now and we all just do things in our own time you know so I'd say for parents at the beginning of this journey try not to panic too much about the deadlines what you're supposed to hit because we all just develop differently and in our own time. So you deliberately as a mum and dad keep your kids out of the public eye why was that an important decision to you? Because they're just children and it's not their choice I don't judge anyone that does and those who don't it's again it's it's very personal and it's you know it's unique to each and every family

what they choose to do we are living in a world where social media is massive you know maybe I don't know if we've got it right or wrong but for us we just we really want our children to just just be children enjoy the childhood and they don't really understand that mummy and daddy are on tv sometimes they don't really get it they don't understand our jobs but then we just want them to to grow up and and just be the happy little gorgeous selves not worry worry about, you know, what people online might think of them or might say. And they can make that decision themselves when they're old enough, if they want to do it. But you've been at the receiving end of some pretty vicious parent shaming online.

I guess, how do you manage that yourself and I guess in a way that has an influence on how you make your children not appear online yeah definitely I mean you know I've got to say first of all I am very very fortunate with with the love and support that I get online it's not very often that I get a troll but when have done, this is an opportunity to educate. I always try and do a positive step. I don't see it as a negative. The biggest reaction I got about parenting was children eating chicken nuggets. I was just about to ask you about chicken nuggets. It's on my list. It's on our list. Yeah. I think straight away most most people would think it was some kind of lazy parenting or spoiled children or you know you know like why on earth would they not follow

tradition and eat a Christmas dinner on Christmas day but like I said I don't get upset or angry about it I think you know it's quite sad that the people writing those comments don't know that unfortunately autism doesn't turn off for Christmas day and yeah part of being autistic can include sensory food aversions I'm like that myself so who am I to try and force my children to eat something that I wouldn't eat myself you know and if if they're in a routine and and they eating what they eat, which is dry, beige food, that's not going to change just for that one day of the year. So, you know, and I do what I believe is best for my children and I don't judge others for what they do. I just try and help and educate

wherever I can. So what about birthdays? How then do y'all celebrate birthdays? Do your children like birthday cake? Do you like birthday cake or do you tend to do birthdays more in the vein of kind of the regular eating of stuff everybody knows they like? Yeah, with the food, we keep it very, very plain. With the actual birthday day celebrations, we keep it as quiet as possible. It's got better every year and the same with Christmas. You know know we started off with like very very few decorations around Christmas time with the birthdays we could never have balloons about because that would petrify them the first year we got a bouncy castle they wouldn't go near it we've learned gradually along the way on on what to do and what they're comfortable with and

where we're up to now is that for birthdays that they're happy to have some kind of inflatables in the garden. We can have balloons if they're out the way, like in a corner of a room. Minimal decorations still, food very basic, and just very, very few people. And with Christmas now, we are at the stage where we can have a Christmas tree with decorations, with lights, just in one area of the house.

There's no big decorations everybody you know most people will have something in the kitchen and some candles lit in in the hallway and we we just try and keep it in one area so that the children can close the doors and and I'm happy with that to be honest I prefer everything a bit quiet. What I really liked what you were saying about the chicken nuggets thing is, I think there's a lot that parents can learn from your attitude to it in that sometimes we get really hung up on the fact that they won't eat broccoli, or they won't eat cucumber or anything vaguely green. And the way that you're just so they'll eat what they'll eat and as long

as they're eating something and they're happy that's a bonus I think that's a really good lesson to take away that we all obsess about it a bit don't we yeah I think you've got to choose your battles with young children especially those with additional needs you've got to choose your battles I think it's important to to try and push them in the right direction as and when you feel it's right to but for us christmas time certainly is not the right time because they're out of routine away from school they're not living their normal day to day life everything is different you've got christmas music and bells ringing all over the place you know so that's not the right time to try and push boundaries you have lots of health and support food even in school their one-to-ones will do food play therapy.

And that's something I've done with them myself since they were around three years old, which is basically playing with food to try and get them used to playing with textures and eventually tasting them. But yeah, it's just a slow process with our children. I'll never give up on trying with them, but I just like to choose my moments and pick my battle. Following on from food, you've talked openly in the past about your eating disorder. It's something I know so many parents worry about, especially I've got a teenager,

people who have teens and tweens, they particularly kind of feel the pressure. What's your advice to parents who are concerned about their child's eating you've touched on this of like kind of be more chill about it i mean i'm fascinated by this kind of playing with your food that works with younger kids do you have any kind of insight in terms of your own experience or your experience with your children that you think would help other parents i mean first of all i sympathize with anybody going through whether you are the person yourself who's struggling with an eating disorder or if you're the parent or carer or other extended family members and friends it really does affect everyone and I've been the person struggling and I've been the parent watching the child struggle and it's heartbreaking either way

for me I didn't know back then that I was autistic. And it started when I was a child. And it was all down to sensory issues. It was never about me losing weight. I never wanted to be skinny. And, you know, it was never about body image. That was never something that crossed my mind. I was a young child.

I didn't have magazines. I didn't know what a celebrity was. There was no ambition to be a model or a tv star or anything I just couldn't I couldn't cope with the environment in the school canteen I didn't that was on offer with the school meals um and unfortunately that that did lead me into having anorexia that's it's taken a long long time to get on top of. Now I understand what my problems are with food. I've almost got an answer and I can help myself. And I suppose that's why it's easier for me to accept my children, where I kind of go, OK, well, for me to stay healthy, I need to keep eating.

And I've got to stay healthy because I've got three children, so I can't get poorly again. So even on days where I think I just can't stomach anything I just don't need anything today I'm not hungry I will just find something that I know I'm quite happy to eat you know whether it's a slice of toast or some cereal I would rather have something than nothing and that's where my attitudes come from with my own children when Leo Leo is the one he struggles the most with his food and I've been sat in a hospital with him when he was he was much younger he was four or five with him extremely underweight quite poorly talking to the paediatrician about putting a tube in his tummy because that that's how tiny he and when you you hear that and you're having those

conversations that's when you kind of go okay I am just grateful that these children are eating anything thank god we discovered the 14 milkshakes that we get from the NHS that we get on prescription and that full of calories full of vitamins full of vitamins, full of goodness. And he started having those and he still has them now. And he's got better with his food because with those, it's helped him get an appetite. It's helped him explore a little bit more and it's helped him stay at a healthy weight. So he hasn't had to have anything more serious done. It's a heartbreaking situation, whichever side you're on it's really really hard you've just got to seek help you talk about it I wish somebody would have asked me when I was

struggling when I was a child what what is it about food what's the what's the problem what don't you like and and what to say oh it's just a bit it's wet you know it's it's just I don't like the texture on my hands or the smell of it's too strong or you know I'm happy to eat a plain sandwich but can I eat it in a quiet classroom instead of in the canteen and me knowing all of that about myself has really helped when it was time to take my children to school and I was able to sit with the headmaster and explain to him that you know it was really important that that my children ate and that they ate somewhere quiet and I would rather them be sitting on their own than be forced to go into a canteen and them not eat at all and it's been a

slow process over the last couple of years to to get them to eat into the canteen with everybody else but now they do it and they do it quite happily because it's been done with care with the right care and support yeah and they've had you to advocate for them to start the process because you didn't have that you were just sent to the canteen and then the food was too wet and the canteen was too noisy and school canteens stink at the best of times so if you've got some sort of sensory issue with food that's really going to trigger you yeah yeah definitely so I'd say for parents and carers to talk to the children figure out what what the trigger is what what is it that's you know stopping them from eating or making them not enjoy meal times how

you need to figure out how to make it fun and how to make it safe for them and how to make them feel happy and comfortable and you will get there you will get there once you figure out what the triggers are you know you'll get there and yeah it's a long slow process and it's a challenge but when you do conquer something like that like my children now eating in a canteen I just go oh my god wow how amazing is that like I really celebrate it I don't take it for granted. It's something that most of the children just go and do and they enjoy

and they look forward to dinner time at school with their friends. But for mine, it didn't start off as a fun experience and now it is and now they love it. And I really, really celebrate just how far they've come. So what's a typical day like for you as a family now that you're a single mum?

How are you managing this change, the co-parenting, all of the crazy stuff you've had to adapt to in the last six months? How's that going? It can't be a barrel of laughs all the time. You're very positive, Christine. Tell us how it's going. Because nothing's really changed. We still live in the same house.

We're still kind of in the same routine and that's that's been our choice to do that we get on extremely well yes we're separated as a couple but we're definitely not separated as a family and we never will be we're always going to be a family we are mum and dad with three children and you know for for us it just made sense to stick together and and stay in the same house that's not the long-term plan but for right now that works you know we're really busy with work we're in and out we don't want to disturb the children too much and and we get on fine so it it makes sense luckily i've got a bedroom so i was gonna say so there are some advantages

because you know if I go to work I know that Patrick's here with the children if he goes to work he knows I'm here with the children and we're not having to take the children from one house to another house and you know do different pickups and drop-offs at school it's it's just carried on it sounds like their routine is critical for them. And so, especially for you guys, whatever's happened to keep your routine sounds really important for your kids. Yeah, definitely. And that's the one thing, you know, no matter what, no matter whatever's gone on between us as a couple, as a family, we will always put the children first always and we know it is vital for

them to have both of us equally in their lives we both play a very important role and we we're quite happy to to just carry on and co-parent and you know just move things along slowly privately but for the for the family for the children we all live in the same house we we go in and out to work they go in and out to school you know we sit and have a cup of tea and a laugh together and and that's just how the children know it that's what I'm used to I was with him for 15 years you know since I've grown up with him so you know, since I've grown up with him. So, you know, for me, any big sudden change would probably be difficult as well. So for now, it's fine. It works. So what does the rest of the year have in store for you and the kids? What are you looking forward to? I want to spend as much time as

possible this year with the children. Last year, I was extremely busy with work and I still want to work and I want to focus on work this year, but I want to get the right balance, you know, and being around the children is what makes me the happiest. As long as friendships go, I want to try and do that whenever I can. I want to make sure I have little mini breaks if I can. I want to try and socialise. I want to keep friendships going longer than what they ever have done in the past because it's something that I understand now you're supposed to work on and I didn't understand that was the thing.

I just thought, you know, you make friends and you just stay friends and that's it. But actually, yeah, I've learnt that you've got to text them back. You've got to ring them. That's hard as a mum of three kids, though. Even if you're, as you say, you didn't understand that that's what's needed. It's hard for everybody to keep up with their friends. Yeah, they're going, I've got no friends. I've got really often got no friends.

And then I look at my phone and go, oh, well, 10 people texted me four weeks ago and I still haven't replied. So that's why. But, yeah, I get it now that you have to plan, like, friend dates. You have to plan get-togethers with people that you want to see, otherwise it's never going to happen. So, yeah, that's something that I need to work more on this year, make sure I get a good amount of family time good amount of friend time and a lot of me time would be gorgeous

well we will always be available Christine if you want to text us we can all get together we'd be happy to yeah don't expect to apply Jen thank you for joining us Christine it's been lovely to chat to you and find out more about your lovely children oh you've been amazing girls thank you so much for having me I've really enjoyed it