The Nick DiPaolo Show - 093 - The Mike Dowd

Episode Date: August 11, 2015

The Mike Dowd

You're listening to Nick DiPaolo on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Hey, hey, kids. Yeah, that's right. It's Monday again. Fucking, we'll be dead soon. It's flying by, ain't it? Welcome to Nick DiPaolo Podcast. Let me get the business out of the way. Come see me Friday, August 21st.

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you know helping me out there and that's about it as far as business goes hey you know I mentioned this documentary I watched a couple I've mentioned it it twice now, a couple weeks ago, called The 7-5. And I brought it up last week. And it's about the 75th Precinct in East New York in the 80s during the crack epidemic. And there were a couple of rogue cops.

And it's a tremendous documentary. Joe List brought it to my attention. And, you know, I've been plugging it here. I'll play the, for those of you who haven't heard me talk about it, let me play the trailer to the documentary. I suggest you check it out. New York is in the grips of a crime wave. It was like the heyday of crack. It was violent, man.

Homicides, robberies, rapes. It was a the heyday of crack. It was violent, man. Homicides, robberies, rapes. It was a war zone. East New York, Brooklyn, 75 Precinct. The deadliest precinct in the country. Who did I burn to get put here? It would scare Clint Eastwood. When I first went to the precinct, I hear about this guy Mike Dowd. I think he's just crazy.

Michael Dowd was a crook who ended up wearing a cop's uniform. He was a criminal. Once in a generation, corrupt cop. I consider myself both a cop and a gangster. Forget about Beverly Hills and all that other stuff. The ghetto is one of the richest neighborhoods there is. Maybe there's some way we can make money from this. La Compania.

It's a very serious Dominican gang. $24,000 in our hands to talk. Mike was a brain. Say no problem. In his business, if you mess up, you got killed. I'm a New York City cop. I'm taking a risk of going to jail for a long period of time. And you're going to short me a dime?

He's worried against mine. And I'm a cop. I'd break your neck if your neck needed breaking. I had three machines counting money. And it's still not enough time. Everybody on the floor now! There's no becoming a cop again. You're going to have me killed.

We knew we were up against a really tough crew. A month ago, I was a regular cop, and now I'm a criminal. That's what they taught us in the police academy. Got a guy in the front, a guy in the back, got an entry team. You felt like you were God. The normal person that's doing wrong is going to have a fear of being caught. I never had a fear about getting busted. Michael Dowd did not have any fear.

Because the cops around me would never give me up. Well, guess what, folks? You know, I'm breaking my rule, my Joe rule. We've only had two live guests since I've been doing this, Joe Matarese and Joe Liss. But guess who's in the house right now? The Michael Dowd from the 75 Precinct. Mike, thanks for coming up here, brother. I appreciate this.

Let's, before, the documentary. This is a little odd position for me. Get right on that, Mike. This is a little odd position for me to be in. You're a big cop. The cops love you. Me being here is not an easy thing. Well, they did love me when I had my free FM show, which only lasted about six months

because the station went bankrupt. Oh, okay. But, you know. Someone shook them down? I don't know. How'd that work? You've dealt with showbiz people. They didn't know what they were doing.

Oh, my God. Please. I'm dealing with that now. But, yeah, through my comedy, people know. Look, I lean right, but obviously I'm not here to glorify what you did. I fucking, I hate what you did because it makes it hard for a guy like me who defends cops to, right? I agree.

I agree. It's a shitty thing. It's a shitty thing. But let's, I want to delve in first. The movie came out in November of last year, right? It was released. What do they call it? A premiere or preview?

The official release was actually, I want to say, in May of this year. But there was... Oh, okay. They have pre-release. It's a whole process they go through. Yes, yes. I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but I'm learning. Yeah.

So am I. 28 years. Trust me. Like I told... He was talking about he was dealing with you know certain people and i said well i've been in the business 28 show business and and including me we couldn't make it in a real world us guys well the the reference that we were talking about is because it's very difficult right now to get this um movie or documentary on on was on demand

it was on itunes it was on amazon, it was on Amazon for the last two, three months and now I can't find it myself so I'm contacting people in this industry saying, wait a, am I allowed to curse here? Yeah,

you can curse, fuck yeah. Where the fuck is my show? I mean, people are calling me up from China, California, anywhere around the world,

where's the show? I've been dying to see it. Anywhere around the world, Dominican Republic. Yeah, they fucking sent me pigeons from France. I watched it last week okay i on amazon yeah now it's no longer there and so last night i sit down i'm gonna do my homework before mike comes in today and i go to

watch it and it says because of licensing agreements it is no longer on amazon but but but but uh my wife finds a link somewhere i don't know what the fucking link was. It was YouTube. Criminal link. Yeah, whatever. But I got to watch it. Good. You know, I want to start this. Before we even get into the movie, what, you know, you became a cowboy year. 1982.

82. Before then. 21 years old. I want to get into sort of your upbringing. Right, okay. Okay? Because in the movie, you know, they state This guy was born a criminal But one guy says or whatever

What was your What was your upbringing like Did you Well come on I was a good kid My dad was a great man You know my family was Pretty much

I mean we all fucked up A bit here and there We're all human beings Okay But you know I had a good Pretty good upbringing Mom raised seven You know seven kids

Oh my god On Long Island And she did She did a damn good job For the most part. I mean, we all make our own decisions as we get older. I mean, I went to church just like Yorel, the rat in the case.

Well, that was your first mistake. No, I'm kidding. There's a lot of mistakes I made with that. We can get into that. But the fact is that I was a good kid. I was a great student in school. I was athletic. I was a hockey player, Half a star almost. I loved

golf. And I loved women. So I mean, what was wrong with me? I was a good kid. Nothing. All American at that point. Yeah, at that point. So what was the impetus for becoming a cop? Especially, you must have... My impetus was, I wanted to get married.

Wait a minute. Now connect the dots there. What the fuck is... Well, I needed a job to get married, Wait a minute. Now, connect the dots there. What the fuck is... Well, I needed a job to get married, so I couldn't just get married and live at home with mom and dad. I had to have a profession that paid the rent. You could have, you know, Orange Julius at the mall. They were fucking hiring men.

You could have done that. I mean, why... I guess what I'm asking is you were probably aware of the climate. Maybe you weren't in the 80s of being a New York cop. I mean, crack was... Listen, I was living on Long Island and I just knew

that what I saw in the news and stuff. And there was no crack yet anyway. Crack wasn't a part of life in the early 80s. It hit the scene when I started finding it

in the streets of Brooklyn. So it was not... What, late 80s? I would say 84, 85 we started finding it popping up everywhere and then you know from there you know the whole you know we burnt out just like the crack many listen i wasn't the only guy and i'm not i don't deflect you know give me the course give me the

label the dirtiest the most corrupt but you know they'd take they did take down a whole precinct right after me right the dirty well yeah and of course you weren't the only one and not like you said not to justify it but if you were you you wouldn't have got as far as you did. Well, clearly, how do you do what I was doing amongst... In a vacuum. In a vacuum. So, hey, whatever. Give me any moniker.

Take the pressure off everybody else. I don't give a shit. Yeah. Well, you know, because I've seen subsequent interviews. And you did 12 years. Well, I was sentenced to 14 And that was a prayer Because I could have gotten more, probably

And many people think I wish I still was in there with that But they can go fuck themselves, too And the move Welcome to Meet the Press Right, hello This is going to be great Mike curses more than I do

Well, I try not to But sometimes I get pissed off Because I hear a lot of back blow. Of course. Blow back or blow off. Whatever these people, they all want to justify their existence on my back, and I'm tired of it. Okay. Early in the film, you talk about when you were like a cadet or the academy,

they brought in a guy from internal affairs and gave a lecture, a speech to you young guys. Right. And as soon as he left, your instructor said, look, you can do it that way. You can do it that way or you can go this way. And this way is you cover your own ass and you have a partner

that you're with that will back you up no matter what you say. So you're not even on the streets yet and you've got an instructor telling you if you do it this way,

what would be the consequences if you played by the book? You wouldn't arrest anybody. Well, no, it's not even it's not about that. It's about the fact is that if you played by the book, then you wouldn't be a cop that anyone would really want to work with

because no one really uses the book out in the street. Okay. So any fudgy gray line that you may or may not cross. So the people at Black Lives Matter are right? Oh, no, no, no. Let's not get crazy here. We'll get to that at the end. I'm bringing that up again.

I want to go to that at the end. All lives matter. Of course. And black, white, Chinese, go to that at the end. All lives matter. Of course. And black, white, Chinese, Asian, green, and blue, they all matter. But you're saying a lot of, but majority of cops don't play by the rules. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's always some, what do you call it, discretion out there. Personal discretion, sure.

Discretion that's afforded every officer. And, you know, the problem is when they take their Personal discretion, sure. Discretion, that's afforded every officer. And, you know, the problem is when they take their own discretion and what I did was bend it to a criminality, which is basically shaking down drug dealers rather than scooting them along or moving them from a location. I actually acquiesced, gave them the spot,

but took their money. Where did you, but you grew up in like a suburb of Long Island, right? So where do you get the street smarts? Because you've, watching this documentary, you took to it like a fish to water, this criminality. But you did. I mean, that's why I asked about your upbringing. I don't, you know, it's like.

Well, you know, a one of seven, you know, in my own household, I had to negotiate to get a little extra pie or some extra. Was it like that? Well, I mean, you know, what it is, is, you know don't know if it's, what they call it, sociopathic? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, a little bit. You learn how to separate yourself from the feelings of others in some respects because you need to survive. So, you know, and I learned how to survive amongst, you know, my own people and then the people in the street.

Don't ask me why I was good at it, but I was damn good at it. I did it in prison, too. Twelve and a half years, I survived that, you know. There were some shaky moments there as well, but I learned with that. We'll get to that. How about the guys in your academy, in your class,

your classmates? Did a lot of them go the same way you did? Right after that speech, I'm still hung up on this. You have a guy from internal affairs come in and he leaves and your instructor's like, don't listen to that shit. So how much of the class

went the way you did? Probably 40%. I mean, I'm saying that in jest. I mean, you know, put it this way. One of the lessons you learn in the police academy

is they say, look around you from left to right, center and back. One of the four of you will make 20 years. The others will either get injured, get killed, resign, or go to jail. So, I mean, that's part of the instruction in the academy.

So, you know, really, so there's 40 guys in a class or 35 guys in a class. So you look around, you go, one in four is making it to 20, and the chips fall where they may afterward. It's just a fact, you know. So I was one of the ones that went the other way, unfortunately. I mean, I probably wouldn't have had some people not jam me up. Is that common? They throw the rookies into the worst priest?

It is. I think they do it today, don't they? Well, you know, I don't know what they do today because I'm not out there, and no one really wants to invite me back to their local PBA meetings. However, I'm pretty observant, and I see what they do today because I'm not out there and no one really wants to invite me back to their local PBA meetings. However, I'm pretty observant and I see what they do. I mean, you know, what it is, is those precincts have a lot of turnover. The high crime precincts have a lot of turnover because guys actually get promoted out of there quite quickly into homicide or other details in the job because they're so skilled at such a young age.

Don't forget, you know, if you don't learn how to survive in the ghetto, you're not going to survive. And if you do survive it, you become quite the valuable commodity to the department. Yeah, because I just, it reminds me of like the movie Platoon or any Vietnam movie

where these young 18-year-old kids, they throw them right into the mix. Did you shit when you found out you were being assigned to the 75th i cried on my way down sutter avenue i was like oh my god i should have stayed in college my mother was right really oh fuck yeah i ain't gonna lie at that point you were aware i don't need to lie no of course not even though you were pretty good at it at the time yeah well i don't need to know it's very freeing i'll tell you isartic to you? It's always cathartic when I speak about it because it helps to get over it.

Not only get over it, but to be able to share because often, I mean, no one wants to hear your stories when you walk around prison yards for 12 and a half years. When I was in the police department, I certainly couldn't share with too many people in there, although I tried, because you may end up in jail as I did anyway. It is cathartic in a sense. And you know what it is? I lost a big brotherhood, and it's really hurtful. So choices I made cost me a lot.

Well, that's what I was going to say. I mean, you must miss. It's like athletes when they retire. They miss that camaraderie, and people have your back. Right. Yeah, right. I mean, I lost it all. You give it all up.

It's a heavy cost, by the way. We can make lighter things here. This is a half-comedical type show here. But the fact is what I did was very serious it was very wrong I paid dear consequences my family has paid for it

they continue to pay for it my brothers paid for it my mother and father didn't want to say their last name in fucking store lines in groceries oh yeah

I mean just they lived a horrific collateral damage is horrendous it still goes on today I'm still failing the effects of it I'm having a difficult time

getting steady employment so we can go on and on with all that nonsense. But the fact is that I made choices, and they all have consequences. And the unfortunate thing is the consequences aren't just your own. They happen to others as well. Yeah, the ripple effect. The ripple effect. The rock in the lake effect.

So let's talk about the first time in the movie. There's another cop, Chicky, right? I love Chicky. Now, he was with you the night. I guess you guys get a call about a burglary. You get there. It's a young girl. Her house is broken into her apartment.

Chicky wasn't there. That was Kenny. That was that. No, that story. That's a fucked up story. When you reach up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell the story.

Here's the deal. Here's how it actually went down. Okay. Everyone's going to get mad about this. So this is different than how they tell it in the movie? Slightly different. The movie is 140-something minutes, so an hour and 40 minutes.

An hour and 40 minutes, 105 minutes. 105 minutes, right. So they can't tell the story the way it is. It wasn't Chicky. It was Barney Fife. It was Yorel, yeah, the detective Fife. It was Yorel, yeah. The detective. Oh, it was Yorel.

All right. Yeah. Yorel and I had just hooked up an hour earlier. We made an agreement that we were going to do the right thing for each other and make a lot of money. And this is how the world works. Let me stop you there. But Yorel, he came into the department After you did No he came in

Before me Yeah Okay well I think he had a year before me But he Okay but In 81 Oh in the movie it says

I thought he came in after you And he heard about you And your wild reputation No no no He came back to the 75 He broke a sergeant's Oh okay He broke a sergeant's hand

Oh that's not in the movie Yeah there's a lot of shit Not in the movie The movie Okay Well tell me about this. Well, I mean, where do you want to go here? Let's go right to the point.

Fuck all that other stuff. The fact is what you asked me was about this shakedown of the young girl or whatever. Yeah. Wasn't that the first time Kenny saw that side of you? Well, we had just set it all up. We were going to go rock and roll, okay? We were going to make it happen. Okay.

We get a job. I'm going to lay it out for you. Someone must have hit a block. Now, follow this through this through someone must hit a block and burglarize the block they go down the chain of houses hit hit hit hit hit and must add someone looking out whatever right we get a call we roll up on a house that was just hit we walk inside we look around the house is in good order it's not an obvious drug dealer house but you know sometimes it may be it may not be but by that you mean usually there's boxes of shoes and excess clothing and excess furniture and gobs of shit in these houses.

Right. Because the drug dealers, they just have money to spend. And these homes in East New York, which some of them are very nice, by the way, they would load them up with their booty, let's call it. Their swag. Their swag. So you would know immediately. But this case was not quite that clear,

so whatever. We just took a poke around, and I pick up a guy's briefcase, and I put my hand in and out of it, and I'm looking for bags of money. If you remember, if you've seen a documentary, I'm describing bags of money.

Yeah, and you get excited even then in the documentary when you talk, your eyes light up. Fuck yeah. And I go, this guy must have, in his heyday, must have been fucking. It was great.

I love, money's good, you know? Of course. Money's good. It just causes a lot of problems. Right. Yeah, because we don't get enough of it. So anyway, I end up missing this little knot of like a $10,000, $11,000 knot. You know, I'm not looking for someone's fucking life-saving stash.

I'm looking for some fucking major smack-o, stack-o. You know, I'm not looking for someone's fucking life-saving stash. I'm looking for some fucking major smack-o and stack-o. I'm not looking for no little shit. So the kid runs in the house and finds the money. Oh, thank God. They didn't get my money. Young boy. You know, 20, 21-year-old kid. So Kenny looks at me like I fucking ate the cat that ate the fucking canary.

I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, I'm not talking to you anymore. What the fuck, man? He goes, that guy had $11,000 and had a house, and you didn't take it. You're setting me up, motherfucker. I'm like, dude, take it easy. What are you talking about?

He goes, you're worth internal affairs. I know you are. You set me up. We had this conversation an hour ago. We're going to start making money. Now you missed $11,000 and this one house. You're fucking Internal Affairs. I know you are. You set me up. We had this conversation an hour ago. We're going to start making money. Now you missed $11,000 in this one house. You're fucking setting me up. I said, oh, thank you.

This is totally different than the documentary. Totally different. No one has a clue. Holy shit. I was misled by watching this shit last night. So I walk in. Now I'm fucking walking on eggs. I finally got this guy to work with me.

Now he's already doubting me you can't things aren't gonna go well how long did it take you to convince him to work with you it took him about a month

it took about a month it was like you know because we kept getting put together by accident they kept putting well purposely they kept putting us together

putting us together either that or now was he really because in the film he was reluctant to yeah he was he said quit putting Mike in my car

this guy's bad news he was reluctant yeah but he didn't mean bad news I was rogue he thought I was wearing a wire him and all his fucking crony friends

in the douche bag in the douche bag squad this is breaking news folks yeah yeah they thought I was wearing a wire and working for internal affairs

so which I wasn't but the fact is that because they thought This is breaking those folks. Yeah, yeah. They thought I was wearing a wire and working for Internal Affairs. So, which I wasn't. But the fact is that because they thought I was wearing a wire and working for Internal Affairs, they didn't want to mix their shit with my shit.

They went across swords in the fucking, in the piece, pee hole. They wanted to make sure things were straight on their end, not mine, and that I wasn't going to come in

and fuck up their ride. So, Kenny had no partner because his partner got promoted or something like that. I think he's Frankie. I said one of these guys. Anyways, he got promoted to sergeant. And Kenny, because he was a big collar guy, because he'd lock up anybody in the fucking world because he did it for money.

That was Kenny's money ticket. He locked up people and made a lot of money on overtime. So he was robbing the system, too, just in a different way. So now I showed him a way to make money without locking people up. And he could actually go home and spend time with his wife which i heard it wasn't a good time anyway so now we go back to the gig and i missed this fucking ten thousand dollars right he thinks i'm setting him up right away so we go out in the car he says don't talk to me i have good money you take me right back to the fucking station house and like two minutes

later a call comes in burglary what did you what was your answer to him when he was accused you of that oh my god what why did you miss the 11 grand i said i'm not looking for fucking eleven thousand dollars i'm looking for 50 80 100 000 in drug dealer money i'm not looking for someone's little knot that they they saved for christ's sakes right to him that was the fucking world eleven thousand dollars was the world right he never saw eleven thousand dollars at one time right unless it was someone counting their communion money or something. But anyway, so I'm on to the next job. I'm like, we're going to the next job.

I'm like, this guy don't want to talk to me. He's fucking mad. It's a burglary down the block, whatever. Roll in there. And I'm like, does your mother hide any money around here? I'm trying to win this guy's confidence back. So the girl goes, I don't know, I'm trying to win this guy's confidence back. So the girl goes, I don't know,

let me call her. So she calls her mother. Her mother tells her, yeah, it's in the closet under the Bible or something. This is a young girl who's 18 years old.

Yeah, Kenny Mason, look, he wanted to hug her fucking piece of shit. Anyway, he could give a fuck about her. So,

you know, I feel bad. I want to pay the girl 10 times the money if I see her again, for Christ's sake. Believe me when I tell you that. I never lived this down. I got sentenced. I want to pay the girl 10 times the money if I see her again, for Christ's sakes. Believe me when I tell you that. I never lived this down.

I got sentenced. The judge was mad about this, too. I was mad. But anyway, so I stick my hand in, I palm the money, I put it in my pocket. So that when I got outside and sat in the car with Kenny, I threw him half the money, whatever it was. You know, it could have been $200, it could have been $800. I don't fucking know. All I know is whatever it was, I gave him half. And you whatever it was. You know, it could have been $200, it could have been $800. I don't fucking know. All I know is, whatever it was, I gave him half. And you did that

to let Kenny know that you were good. Yeah, I was good. And so Kenny was like, he could breathe a sigh of relief. So he was like, he was fucking excited now. All right, all right. Because I'm not going to walk out of someone's house and hand them money if I'm wearing a wire. I mean, it isn't, you know, that's not going to happen. So,

P.S., from there forward, we started to rock and roll. But, you know, poor thing was that I had to take advantage of this innocent young girl and her trust in the fucking police, which, you know, she could have trusted me 99.9% of the time, but I had to get past this Kenny bullshit to get his

confidence back. And now I'm a douchebag. So, yeah, it's you know so it starts alright that's you know what do you do

it is what it is I have to accept responsibility for being a slick ass on some young young girl who was you know

probably admired the police and I fucked that up for her then you now this is before you run into Baron Perez right this is before you run I had already known

and had a small relationship Baron Perez folks who haven't seen the known and had a small relationship. Barron Perez, folks who haven't seen the movie, he had a auto sound city, put stereos in there. And obviously, we know who likes big speakers. Yeah, he had the whole drug package going on. All his clients, a lot of his clients are drug guys. 90% because

you know, who spends $15,000 or $20,000 on gooseneck I gotta have you stay close to that. You wanna move the chair? Gooseneck equalizes. Remember the Gooseneck. I got to have you stay close to that. On Gooseneck. You want to move the chair? Gooseneck equalizes. Remember the Gooseneck equalizes and all that shit back then? Yeah. You know, that was like the coolest thing in the world, you know.

They had the Goosenecks and they had amplifiers. Oh, man, they had some big, huge systems. So a lot of his clients, Perez's clients, were drug dealers, and that's how you meet him. Did you do business with him? Not really. He turned you on to Diaz. Right, right.

You know what it is? He was sometimes a middleman, but mostly it wasn't him. He basically had the location where people could meet. Which was where? It was like going to the bar friend where everybody knows your name. So you could go into Barron's shop and it was like neutral ground. They would settle disputes amongst each other there.

Barron would be like the mayor between them. You know, okay, you guys owe each other money. Why don't you pay it out instead of shoot it out? I mean, if you think about it, and this is ironic. No shit. This is ironic, and this is the truth, by the way, and people don't really,

they don't give a fuck what I have to say, but the fact is the crime rate was lower when we were there running this then uh before you got there no or after when after we left after you left the homicides went from 85 a year to 100 and 105 a year right after we left there because we were sort of mediating a lot of the disputes and sort of controlling a lot of the activity by the way we didn't mention yeah i mean this was the literally the worst precinct in the country, crime-wise. There was a thousand shootings a year. A thousand shootings a year just in the precinct. Right.

So, you know, usually one in ten dies is about the number, you know. Right, so that's a hundred. Yeah, about a hundred bodies. So, you have Baron Perez and what did you do with him? Did you make any money with him or no? He was small fry.

He introduced you to him. Well, Barron made money with us because what he did was he hooked us up with this guy, La Compania. Right. Cello. Cello. Cello. Cello boy. And, you know, the guy approached him.

Well, I think Barron is a professional middleman. You know, he knows how to make deals happen. So he put C cello with us where we never had to meet and they made... Tell the people who cello. Cello was a guy who ran a major

drug organization up on Norwood and Fulton and... He's Dominican. He was a Dominican drug... Coal-hearted killer. Drug kingpin,

had like 20, 30 homicides to his record, you know, that they know of and he ended up shorting me a dime. He tried shorting me a fucking dime. Was that the first payment that he shorted you on? And boy, did that fucking, I was sort of laughing.

Again, like Mike says, none of this is that funny. But when I, Mike was furious. I mean, you're risking, you're risking, you know. Your life, your career, your freedom. Everything, you're going to go away. And this guy shorts you. He shorts me a fucking dime. On the first payment.

$700 short. So what's happened? Mike and Kenny right now are protecting this guy. Yeah, we're protecting this guy. What we're doing is we just told him, yeah, go ahead. Fourth of July weekend is going to be really easy on you. Because the cops are on details. He's like, can I go full bore on Fourth of July?

That's all he wanted to know so i went yeah but you did a lot of other shit with him no no cello was a one-shot this is one thing it was a one-trick pony that was the diaz organization where we got a little deep and we did a lot right for him a lot you know move him around different locations but jello which started the whole which started the whole right well you know it gave us a taste of what we can get. And then we sort of had to lay the groundwork that we weren't going to meet. Kenny could give a fuck. He was just in the car for a ride, by the way.

What do you mean? Well, he just sat there and went like this. Yes or no. You know, like Mike. Okay. Yes. Whatever Mike says, you know, just. You were the brains of the operation.

Well, brains. Even Diaz says that in the movie. Kenny's had nothing to say. It's just, yeah, he wants to make the money. He was willing to, he was willing to co-sign on anything I said because I needed a willing partner. Let me say, everybody that talks about you, okay,

then and in the movie, it was your, you were fearless. You didn't give a fuck. You just, where does that come from? I don't know. Look, again,

I don't know. Because you used it for bad, but in most, you know, any other aspects of life it would be an admirable quality. Right, right. Where did you get that? Was your mother a brazen?

Your dad was just like that? I'm just curious. Was it in your blood or did you fucking, it was a survival technique. It's a survival technique. You know what it was? I probably didn't think I belonged in the police department at such a young, immature age. And I figured if I'm gonna do this i better be fearless because otherwise i might just go home and not come to work because it was fucking scary

so i just said it's either all or nothing you're in or you're out you know there's no halfway oh i mean i just there you go therapy 101 no you're right i just maybe come to terms with i mean i wasn't a big guy at the time no but there but there's other cops. Every cop, when your name comes up, they're like, he didn't give a fuck. He was fearless. And I just want to know where that quality came from. Yeah, well, you know, like I said, I had tears in my eyes driving down Sutter Avenue.

Which was out of fright. I was scared to death. I wanted to go home. I'm done playing. I was done playing, Ma. Give me here. Take the ball back. The bat.

I'm done. Let's go. And then after about a month, took about a month, maybe three weeks, I began to feel comfortable there and realized that there's only one. That's it? A month? That's all it took you? Well, you're better.

Oh, you're dead. I was fucking better. I was probably my first week or two I was involved in some stabbings, not me personally, but I handled stabbings and shootings and rapes all within my first two weeks. I probably had two or three shootings, one homicide right in front of my face. And I was like, man, it's sink or swim, dude. You're in. This is it.

Yeah, because you mentioned in the movie, you guys are taking calls, and you can hear gunshots. You're not even in the background from other calls. I mean, it's... Sometimes you would sit there on a fucking Tuesday. Tuesday's in the ghetto. I don't know why, but it was a Tuesday. Fat Tuesday. Tuesday was a special night.

And we'd sit there with the window open right around 1030 at night, just before you get ready to change shifts at 1130. And we'd sit there in the quiet of the night. And just with the window open you'd hear pop pop pop pop pop pop you're like now you're waiting for the fucking radio to go off and say you know five adam five john five charlie whatever it is respond to a shooting at such and such and guess what 90 of the time no call came in no shit huh fucking bothered calling the police. No kidding. Yeah, this is the truth. Yeah, and you hear that today about Chicago and other areas. What happened?

They didn't call the police. Oh, why? What the fuck? You know, they just don't. Yeah. They just don't. You know, that's just the way it was. I mean, this is the crack epidemic of the 80s.

We had scenes where seven, eight people were shot and murdered. You know, we had the Palm Sunday Massacre. They had 10 or 11 people in one family were murdered. And what was it like the first time you walked into something like that? Like you said, you're like... It's like a wax museum. Oh, my God. That's a good way of putting it.

Walking into a wax museum. Just people, like, not moving, just blood. But, like, it's so... It was, like was actually old by the time I saw it, probably like 12 hours, 18 hours old by the time I walked in on it because this thing eventually took, that particular one I'm referring to took place over a 24-hour period, I guess,

or something like that. So by the time we saw it, it was almost a day old and that's just all eerie and fucking, just skeletons looking at you with their eyes open, shit. And like you said, it contributed to you, you feel useless.

It's like putting a finger in a dike, there's so much crime. You're answering a call but 10 more would come in five minutes later. Yeah, you know,

some people refer to some of this as slightly exaggerated but like, in the movie, they refer to, and Chicky's talking about, they're holding 200 jobs

and shit and people are like, he's talking about they're holding 200 jobs and shit and people like what he's talking about like the fourth of july weekend and shit like that you know yeah so and so they clipped that in you know you're holding a job robberies murders raids burglaries shootings you know accidents family disputes you know on fourth of july you're getting two three hundred job backlog so we would just tell Central, give us the first 100. Give us 100 jobs, Central. Because it's all the same bullshit.

90 X-ray, 90 zebra, 90 X-ray, 90 zebra. You know, unfounded or gone on arrival. Unfounded, gone on arrival. You know, what are you going to do? Every fucking time someone shoots a firecracker off, they call 911, now you got a job.

So we wanted to clear the shit out of the way and get on to real jobs. So anyway. And you took, I know you mentioned, you took like 200, was it 250 calls a month? Right. That was the average. Yes. On a four to 12 shift. Maybe more, really.

And I backed up on another 250. So now. So I was active still. Okay. So that's why I got away with what I did. In a lot of ways, if you think about it. So you were still doing your job. I was doing my job. I was probably, I hate to say this, I was a still. Okay. So that's why I got away with what I did in a lot of ways, if you think about it. So you were still doing your job. I was doing my job.

I was probably, I hate to say this, I was a damn good cop. Damn good. I was damn good. Ask Kenny to scumbag. He'd close sign on that, I'm sure. I was a damn good cop. I knew how to handle the street. And you sort of picked that up in the part of this interview.

You seem somewhat fearless. Well, you know, fearless, reckless, whatever the proper word is. You know, survival instinct. But a lot of, you know, a lot of cops, I guess, you know you fearless reckless whatever the word whatever the proper word is survival instinct but but a lot of you know a lot of cops i guess you know like i said every time they brought your name up you had the same thing he didn't give a fuck he was gonna do it his way i made a good president yeah right yeah right let's do that let's do that next let's go yeah mike dowd yeah right don't start that so. So Perez introduces you to a heavy hitter, this Adam Diaz guy, right? Well, first I faced off with Cello in the street because he shorted us, you know. Oh, that's right.

The movie gets into that a bit, you know. The guy put a hit on me. And you pull him over. I pulled him over that same day. I never met the guy, never saw him once, but I saw his car. And you knew it was a Porsche. You knew right away. It wasn't a Porsche.

That was Adam's. Diaz had the Porsche. This guy had a Renault. A Renault? Yeah, but it was like. What kind of fucking drug deal is you knew it was a Porsche. You knew right away. It wasn't a Porsche. That was Adam's. DS had the Porsche. This guy had a Renault. A Renault? Yeah, but it was like a fucking drug dealer's ass. It was a tricked out. It was a tricked out, yeah.

He was a cheap... Adam made fun of him, right? Adam makes fun of him in a movie. He could fucking buy and sell him, right? Whatever. Pulled the guy over in a Volkswagen Beetle. Yeah, that's right.

So you pull the guy over the same day you found out he had a hit out on you or shortly after? Same Yeah, same day. Same day? That day. What the fuck is that? That day.

Okay, tell the people how you confronted this guy. Well, I was working with, listen, I could be lying because I don't recall who I was working with. I believe I was working with someone, not Kenny, because he was never around when shit was really important. And I pull over. I'm sensing some animus now i know i saw i saw an interview where you you hugged the guy since you've hugged kenny since no you know what it is and kissed him made up something but you sound like you have a real being you bought it some of it well i've been some strong talking i've been asked not to fucking

say certain things about him and his relationship whatever and it's unfair to me to have to check myself for certain things because the problem is he's never had to check himself and he wrecked me so i have to check myself so i don't hurt some feelings out there and you know what it's okay i'm an adult now i can do that but it bothers my core because i'm yeah i can see that i'm a little visceral it's about certain things of course one of these things you know when my son was a young kid he got abused because of his daddy you know someone else's family took off to florida you know and no one knew them and they lived a charm life you know with the pension that i helped them get you know

three-quarters disability for the rest of his fucking life. Yeah. And my kids were on welfare. But you'd think he'd send a fucking dollar? You know, I'd put your daddy away or helped. Okay. I feel like Dr. Melvin here. We got to the core of this issue. All right.

Well, so the bottom line is that some things still stick in my core. Of course. Okay? But, you know, the fact is... It's a life-changing event.

Really? How about, so now you pull this guy over, this fucking... Yeah, I pull this guy over and I tell him listen license but he don't know who i am he's never met me so he's he's got a surprise waiting for him i got my gun and i got my gun looped in my finger i mean you know i had my gun my hand

pressed inside my fucking in my back then we had the swivel holsters with the real gun the smith and weston 38 special real fucking police gun, okay? And I had my hand in the holster, and I just was ready to... All I had to do was point. My holster and my gun in my hands were so... I mean, in East New York, you took a gun out 10, 15 times a day, okay? No shit. Yeah. So my gun was so worn, and the fucking loop, and the finger, and the thumb.

All I had to do was get... I had a pen next to the... I had a pen holder was in my gun holster. I didn't even have a fucking pen holder. There's too much room on your belt because you look like a rookie with all that stupid shit on your belt. So I got just a gun and some bullets

and some handcuffs. That's it. I put my hand in there and I was ready to fucking shoot him right in the car because I'm thinking he's going to maybe pull out his gun or if I just see a gun, he's dead. I'm whacking him. Of course. I'm whacking him. Of course.

I'm whacking him. He's fucking put a hit on me. He's dead. But fortunate for him, he hands me some papers and I look at him. He doesn't know who I am and I don't even look at the fucking papers. I just throw the papers.

Why did he put the hit out on you again? Because he shorted us 700 on the first payout. Right. And I told Barron to tell him he needs to make good on the money. And he said, tell them to go fuck themselves. They're not getting paid. We're even.

So I said, fine. So I planted myself in front of his bodega for fucking five days. And I had a crew on the evening shift come in. When I was working a day shift, on the evening shift, they'd come in and plant themselves in front of his store for five days. I gave them a grand on the side. They don't even know what the fuck they were doing i just told them park there so the fucking and he loved that he mentioned in the movie he goes what a great idea he this is he was praising you he goes we never had any problems he mikey mikey parked

that car up front and uh yeah but but this was this was to put heat on cello right the other guy for not paying me right That was a different take on it I parked in front of Cello's Oh okay Yeah I parked in front of Cello's spot So his business went sour No one would come to his spot That's right

To buy drugs That's right So then he puts a hit on me And he says Tell that fucking cop I'm putting a hit on him He tells Barron I don't even know

Barron told me I don't know if they even had a discussion So you pulled Cello over So I pulled Cello over And I throw the papers Back in his fucking face. He put a hit on me. Let's go, motherfucker.

Let's do it right here, right now, or shut the fuck up. Okay, so now where? Take the hit off. This is what they're talking about, the other car. Where the fuck does that come from? I mean, that's like almost reckless. What if he, well. Yeah, well, whatever.

I was going to kill him. I mean, because he's going to, listen, he threatened my fucking existence. Right. This was a money crime between the two of us. Right. He wasn't paying. I was putting pressure on him. Now he's going to whack me?

Fuck you. I'm going to whack you because now you're threatening my life. I'm threatening your money business because you're not paying me. Right. If you pay me, I step back. He wouldn't pay me. So how does this interaction end? It ends with the car.

He wouldn't pay me. So how does this interaction end? It ends with... The car. Well, he just looked at me, and I told him, call it off, and I walked away. If you want to do it, I'm here. Get out now. Yeah, you like challenge him to a duel on the street. Well, we'll do the Mexican standoff, you know, under the fucking...

Fucking Aaron Burr. Under the L. We're going to go under the L at fucking like 6.30 at night and just shoot it out. Whatever you want to do. I said, we'll do a pace off right here, I told him. See, it's a better man wins,

I told him. A little fucking panicky and then all of a sudden I get a fucking page. So you made a drug deal of nervous. So I panicked. So my beeper goes off

and about an hour later or so, my beeper goes off. Baron, I go, what's up? He goes, come to the shop. I go to the shop.

I walk in. He goes, I got a call from Shallow. He says, the hit's off. And he says, here. He throws a fucking bag at me. I go, what's that? He goes, count it. What he owed you?

Count it. Right set of dimes? It was the $700 he owed me. So, listen, if you're going to sell your soul, you got to pay the full freight, bro. Well, no. That's exactly right. I mean, come on. That's what you said. You're going to show me your dime? You can to pay the full freight, bro. Well, no. That's exactly right. I mean, come on.

That's what you said in the movie, too. You can't do that. So that's how it went. Yeah. But then we hooked up with Diaz and things got a little bit nicer. You know, Diaz was a gentleman. This Diaz, folks, this guy's right out of Central Casting. What a fucking character, this guy.

He's the guy with the supermarket, right? The bodega. Yeah, yeah. He had a couple of them. He had about three or four of them yeah yeah yeah and but you can get anything you want in his bodega remember yeah in the video you look at anything you can get milk bread you can get diapers yeah you can get a kilo whatever yeah he was looking good yeah he was young 20 21 years old he has since been deported right right well he ended up getting pinched eventually

like everybody. But this is when you really started making dough. Well, what it was, it was a steady... This is the protection money. It was the protection.

It was a steady flow. It was $8,000 a week. How'd you decide on that figure? I even thought that was low. It was low, by the way, but I didn't know.

I don't know what to come up with. I know there's no manual to teach you how to do this. Yeah, who's going to tell me how much it's worth? McCluskey's dead, by the way, from the gun. Yeah, how did I know? I don't know what to come up with. I know you're a young guy. I know there's no manual to teach you how to do this. Who's going to tell me how much it's worth? McCluskey's dead, by the way, from the gun. Yeah, how did I know? I didn't know Diaz was making $100,000 a week himself, cash clear out.

If I had known that, I would have said I want 20%, 25%, whatever. Because I was risking my whole entire career, as we find out. Wasn't he making a lot more than that? He was pocketing a hundred grand a week Plus paying his people You know salaries and stuff like that Because well in the movie it puts up It says a kilo was going for like 34 grand

Yeah but He was doing 300 kilos a week it said Is that a fudge in the numbers? Yeah but some of the numbers are not quite accurate Back then the kilo price had dropped down to 11,000 a kilo Why is that? Because it was so much Because it was so much of it.

Supplying demand. Fucking ridiculous. So you buy a kilo, like you see him refer to, if you pay for that kilo $20,000, the price goes down, you got to pay the $20,000. You can't pay. Yeah, he said that. Oh, he was dead.

Yeah, well, he was getting fucking whacked. Escobar would show up. Escobar. Yeah, that's what I meant to him. Yeah, yeah. He said I was getting Escobar's kilos. That's a lot of pressure to move product. Yeah.

And then what happened was they were undercutting each other from one side of the street to the other. So we get the phone call. Mike, the fucking guy across the street is selling kilos for $11,200. I'm selling them for $11,500. And I can't compete with the guy. Now I'm losing money. I've got to pay my help. I've got to pay my rent, my stores and shit.

And he comes to you Complaining about this So he comes to me Complaining The guy who goes to the streets Like you're the Fucking regional manager Yeah so he went in And we told him

That we're gonna shut them down Put them in jail They went They were scared And so the guy Stopped selling For a little bit And back to

You know In other words Keep your price At the right range around here Otherwise you're gonna Cause problems You're gonna go to jail Or whatever

You're gonna get robbed And you took that You took that eight grand a week And you bought a condo In Myrtle Beach around here, otherwise you're going to cause problems. You're going to go to jail or whatever. You're going to get robbed. And you took that eight grand a week, and you bought a condo in Myrtle Beach. No, no, that was way before I bought the condo. Oh, that was your first school. My first school. My solo. It was a solo act school.

We took a kilo from the Panamanians. Fucking Noriega's people. For real. Noriega's people were shipping kilos in the early 80s like this is before the crack shit happened okay like 83 84 we we clipped a guy with the kilo in um up on atlantic avenue right off van sicklin in atlantic this kid robbed someone at a subway and the kid runs in the house with a 357 magnum it's his house it's his daddy's house but he's a panamanian people they fucking they're new in the neighborhood so this kid was just trying to be a little young gangster took someone's kango hat back then the kango hat was a big yeah i remember

the king was a big thing you know he robbed his kids kango kango hat robbed a kango hat yeah right so he robs a kango hat runs in his old man's house and we break in the house whatever and uh how that happened and uh i go in the basement there it is a whole shop set up i can't find any any month uh any perico buddy perico no perico there so then i i found a briefcase that looks like like a guitar case over there like solid wood hard heavy oh there's got to be something here it's locked in the basement under under the curtain covered uh closet i open it up i pull out this thing it's like 30 fucking pounds i mean holy shit so i start cutting it with an ax or oh yeah i couldn't get the shit out i couldn't walk out with the briefcase they'd say where's the briefcase

you know it's all a pilfer shit but you got it open oh yeah i got it took me about five you got it open next time you get a condo i got it open and i went bought a condo with so uh so more with diaz because this is when you really get into it right um yeah well you know diaz uh it turned things around it made things a little bit more like gentlemanly he said to you and this was was to me one of the most important statements in the movie, when he met you and Kenny, he goes, I look at Kenny, I could tell he was a fucking cop. There was something wrong coming from a gangster. But he looked at you, and he goes, this guy's like me.

That's crazy. And guys like Dia, they really can read people. That's how they survive. So that's what I'm saying. I'm just wondering. And I knew he was like me, too. You did, right? Yeah. As soon as I saw him, I said, all right, we're all right. Really? We're going to be all right. So that's what I'm saying. I'm just wondering. And I knew he was like me too. You did, right? Oh yeah.

As soon as I saw him, I said, all right, we're all right. Really? We're going to be all right. So he knew. He showed up with a bag of money. That was the whole idea. He showed up with that bag of money.

He thought it was ironic that he had to gain my trust. In other words, he was showing up with a bag of money to buy my trust. No, I want him to show up with a bag of money so we show how he was serious.

You know, you just don't get protection. You got to fucking pay for the protection, number one. And you got to be seriously invested in it. And he showed up with the cash. So how long were you on his,

you know, the eight grand a week? It wasn't a very long period of time. I would say, you know, the steady flow was probably about

three to four months. And then he began having problems with this guy, Franklin and Coke. They were robbing him. Yes. And a lot of shit went down. That was crazy. A lot of shit went down with that. And we started changing locations.

And they disappeared, by the way, those guys, Franklin and Coke. I have no idea what happened to them. No, I know you don't. I'm not taking any. I know you don't. I'm calling Diaz today and find out what the real book is. I'm not taking any responsibility for them. No, I know.

Put it this way. I didn't book is. I'm not taking any responsibility for them. Even, put it this way, I didn't touch them. I will say that, but. But I can't believe there's people out there crazy enough to fucking rob somebody like Diaz. I mean, just like,

they're all fucked up on drugs too. They're all fucked up, that's why. His name was Coke. Who let him in the back door? And the guy, I know one guy's name is Coke. Are you shitting me?

What's the other guy, Straw? Yeah. The fuck? Franklin and Coke. That's my Frank Kenny mirror. Yeah, I know Elvis was, was a little bit of a softy, soft touch. So they, they went. Are you shitting me? What's the other guy's? Straw? Yeah. The fuck? Franklin and Coke. That's my Frank Kenny mirror. Yeah. No, Elvis was a little bit of a soft touch.

So they went- That's how they- This guy named Elvis, and he's the first singer. He's the first guy to start squealing. Isn't that- Yeah. His name is Elvis. He-

I get a phone- You don't even know. I get a fucking call from one of the guys, a cop. He says, Mike, I'm getting called into Internal Affairs. I said, for what? He goes that that uh that van cichlid and atlantic the bodega that thing that went down some guys up there was dropping your name so i said oh really and so you're telling me this and you're getting called in they haven't called me in so uh i mean how fucked up are these people anyway so i mean why would you tell a cop that they're asking questions about me?

You know, you just fucking, do you want me to know? I mean, just think about what I'm telling you. The cops that were going in for the fucking, to assist the district attorney's office and all that, were telling me. They were asking about you, Dowd, and the fucking thing. Like, what are you, Dowd, and the fucking, and the thing. Like, what are you, in isolation from each other? I know,

I know. The guy's coming back to work with me. Right. And then the sector car, I end up with him in my car, this kid,

one day. When Armstrong came in, the lieutenant came in after us. The stories are endless. I can go on and on with the things that happened and,

you know, it's just amazing. Now, in 1986 another precinct the 77th like 13 guys get hauled out of there

right and so that scared off like Chickie said that's enough for me Chickie ran he said fuck that but you Captain Balls again

you're like Cherry ran four guys went to Nassau two guys went to Suffolk as soon as they got the chance to bounce boom ba bing ba bang it was like

it was like it's like dropping a bar of soap pepper you ever seen pepper you ever seen pepper in soap yeah it takes off yeah

but not you you went right towards the soap I stood right in the middle and held on to the list and Kenny was still with you right at this point well Kenny wasn't even working with us

in the early part the 86 Kenny was still in the fucking that's right in the 88 precinct what which precinct was he in 88 he was in the early part, the 86. Kenny was still in the fucking 8-8 precinct. Which precinct was he in? 8-8. He was in the 8-8.

He broke a sergeant's hand in the 7-5 because the sergeant pointed at him. Now, that wasn't in the movie. What happened there? Well, I don't know. Listen, I wasn't there. Oh, come on. You know what happened. Well, the sergeant pointed at Kenny, and it got in his face,

and Kenny grabbed his hand and broke it. So they shipped Kenny off to fucking never never broke his sergeant's hand yeah yeah they they should well he wasn't a shrinking violet either yeah yeah well you know hey listen i give he got street credibility for that okay that give him some street credibility you know he fucking stood up to a boss you know he wouldn't stand up to a fucking inmate or a fucking uh internal affairs but he stood up to a boss because he was probably bigger than the guy. You start doing robberies, right, with Diaz, you'd see a building with narcotics would show up or something.

Right. So you know. Well, what it is is we... Who's this guy, Walter? Walter, yeah. Who is that scary fuck? He's a cop. He's a scary fuck, Walter. What's a scary fuck?

What happened was they got pinched earlier. Who did? Walter, Chickie, and Jeff get pinched for shaking down a bodega. Okay, which is wasn't in the movie. Right. Well, they cut that out of the movie because they just didn't have enough time to put it all out there. Kind of important. Well, that's why you see Chickie and Walter in my movie, in the 7-5 movie

because Chickie, Walter, and Jeff end up doing a shakedown. They went in as cops, tossed a fucking bodega. None of them was a cop anymore. None of them were cops anymore except for Walter. Walter was doing a midnight shift. He was 7'5". He worked the same beat.

They hit this place twice. Not once, but twice. By the way, Walter's 6'5", 290. And his hand is literally the size of my head. What a scary motherfucker. Where was he from? Born right in the Bronx? No, West Islip.

He was from Long Island. Once again, this confirms. It's one of the scariest fucking places on Earth. Yeah, so anyway. They love me down there. Yeah, he's good. So you guys, yeah. They do a shakedown.

They get busted. There's a big thing in the news, whatever. Cops and stuff. And they were looking for two more. They figured that Kenny and I were involved with this whole thing which we technically weren't

although I did get the fucking drugs later on from the shakedown that they took so I did so was I involved I didn't plan it

I wasn't involved in doing it but I did end up with the drugs from it because they wanted to offer the drugs to somebody

and I had the market so bing I got the drugs I made them $2,500 or whatever it was for whatever they took out of there and I went and I sold to mark it. So, bing, I got the drugs. I made them $2,500 or whatever it was for whatever they took out of there. And I went and I, you know, pilfered it. I sold it on the line.

But anyway, to my bar people, not school children. It didn't say that in the movie. Not to school children. No. You know, every fucking time you hear, Dowd's Drugs made its way to school children. Oh, it always does. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah. They're in the back of the bar. Norton fucking Graham's in the fucking bathroom. And it made it to school children. Oh, it always does. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, they're in the back of the bus, Norton fucking Graham's in the fucking bathroom, and it made it to school children. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we're going to get to that, the eventual downfall in Harry.

Well, he probably was a school child. He shouldn't have been selling anything. Yeah, he looked a little... That was Kenny's fucking... That was Kenny's connection? Yeah, I don't know. Kenny's distributor. Oh, that's right.

He was at a bar with them below. Yeah, he was at a bar. That's distributor. Oh, that's right. He was at a bar with them. Yeah, he was at a bar. That fucking guy. Yeah. Oh, my God. So let's, yeah, let's start. So it turned, let's start. But Walter and Chicky and Jeff get arrested.

Yes. I put Walter in my house for over a year. Because his parents threw him out. His mother's wife threw him out. She changed the fucking locks and said, get out, you piece of shit. I put Walter in my house. Is that true? So my wife says, it's me or him. I says, where are you going,

sweetheart? So she ended up moving in the basement with Kenny's fucking wife. Kenny had an apartment in his basement. My wife ended up moving in there. I was paying him $700, $800 a month fucking rent for my fucking wife. Your wife's living in Kenny's house with Kenny's wife in the basement. Yeah, well, Kenny and... And you got Walter

at your house. And Walter's at my house now. First of all, feeding that guy alone had to be a grand away. Oh, he's expensive, man. Fucking guy is a monster. He's doing all my blow. He's fucking eating my fucking... He ate twice a week, but he didn't want Coke,

so it was killing me. One way or the other, he was still putting me out of business. Is that actual footage they show? Actual footage in a movie of them robbing... Was it the bodega? The bodega. Yeah, they show him footage in the movie of of them robbing was it the bodega bodega yeah they show him not you know can he go i mean uh walter goes uh if your neck needed breaking that fucking break it and then he he he goes on to explain how you guys would do robbies

just like they trained us in the academy you have guys in the front guys in the back yeah yeah they show actual footage yeah but that's not the particular one that's not the one no but but they stage it like it was what they did so yeah okay so it's similar it looked that looked pretty good one of the bodegas that we were in though you know because because several of those bodegas are unreal from the feds and the state and the city's investigation units have pictures of those bodegas where they went in and out of them okay Okay. So there is some footage. Okay. Yeah. So. Not that particular moment.

No. I guess is what I'm saying. Right. Because otherwise they would have been cooked right off the bat. Right there. I actually had the guy sent to fucking Dominican Republic. The bodega owner. Oh, there's a big story that's going to come out in my book. The book should be.

The book's in the proposal status. We're probably going to call it the 7-5, the house that Coke built. So we differentiate a little bit from the movie. 7- house that coke book's gonna be my book and it's gonna get into all these stories as best we can because you still got to minimize some of it because i mean it's 10 year career my life was fucking crazy i did a lot of crazy shit right but you know these guys went out on bail i put them in my homes uh we used to do shakedowns off duty with our vets and our fucking Mustangs. We'd fucking follow drug dealers around neighborhoods and shit

just because we got crazy. We got fucking out of control. Thank God they come and get us. I'm going to plug this before I forget. We've still got a lot to talk about, but themikedowd.com and at themikedowd on Twitter. Right.

And you get an Instagram account. Correct. Yeah, all themikedowd. Themikedowd. Because. Right. And you get an Instagram account. Correct. Yeah, or TheMikeDowd. TheMikeDowd. Because there's a couple different sites out there with Michael Dowd, TheMichaelDowd, or The75MikeDowd. But the bottom line is TheMikeDowd is what's controlling most of my interest right now. How were you... Let me ask you a question, and I'm not being flippant.

How were you sleeping when you were doing all this shit? I wasn't. Were you up all the time? I probably slept three hours a day at the time. Seriously? Yeah, seriously. Let me ask you this. Were you one of those people, even before you became a cop, like when you were younger

in high school, were you one of those people that fucking could get by in three hours sleep? You seem like, even now, we all know a guy like you. You're like a live wire. Yeah. I can't imagine you doing fucking blowing being around you. Forget it. Forget it. You know, but yeah, I wouldn't.

Yeah. Well, I'm a lot of fun though. You know, I'm fun. I'm humorous. I think I'm likable. I'm an asshole too. And I make fun of myself first. So I think that's important in life.

You just have fun and make fun of yourself a lot. And I'm a live wire, but you know, you got me. But conscious wise, you slept like a, when the three hours you slept fine, right? Yeah. When you're unconscious, it was called, I was unconscious.

You were drunk. I was unconscious. Blasted, whatever I was. Kenny's wife said that, that you took him right out of her bed. She's full of shit, okay? Kenny drank more than me. You guys, folks,

you notice when I bring up Kenny, there's a second change. He drank more than me and I saved her life, okay? Let's just put it that way. Several times. All right. Okay.

All right. See, we're getting to shit that you might not read from the movie folks that's why he's correcting me a lot of this this is fucking great there's a lot of shit let's talk about okay when's the beginning of the end when's it start to go sour on you the end is this i am now i mean don't don't forget it's a long period of time that goes by here i was in um whitestone pound i was in i went to the rehabs i went two years into rehab program now what years was this this is like 88 89 yeah 80 89 i think yeah and then 90 they gave me my gun and badge back i'm like but but you gotta be fuck whoa listen you i gave my gun and badge up you and they gave it back to me you fucking broke the rule you were getting high on your own supply

I give a fuck no but did that help seriously did that help fuck things up no I don't know how does it fuck things up I didn't get caught how'd I get caught

no it might have started at the beginning of the end I know how you get caught well it's not even about that that's not even how I get caught? No, it might have started at the beginning of the end. I know how you get caught. I know. Well, it's not even about that. That's not even how I get caught. I get caught because they're fucking dealing drugs on Long Island. They don't know how to deal drugs because they're not real drug dealers, these motherfuckers. They don't know what they're doing.

That's how I get caught. Weren't you part of the decision to fucking sell shit on Long Island? That was all Kenny? No, I had nothing to do with him. Boy, this fucking movie. I'm going to fucking call these guys myself. They had nothing to do with him. He had his own operation So let's

We're getting way ahead Of ourselves I know I do 88, 89 I go to 89, 90 Whatever I go to the fucking rehab cycle

Didn't work You can't remember what year I went to the farm Jesus Christ I'm 54 now I was in the fucking Rehab program I get caught

Banging some chick In the rehab program Oh you don't even know They were gonna close The whole fucking place down. Anyway, I got the fucking, all these detectives coming up,

you fucking asshole. They're cursing me out, whatever. Anyway, they had to pull up, they had to pull up, pull up Mickey Rooney to get us back into the rehab. It's going to kick all the cops out of rehab because of me.

Anyway, uh, so I finished that off and I come back and I start putting my life back together a little bit. After rehab. Yeah, after rehab. I'm doing the 90 to 90. I'm doing everything smooth

and in comes fucking Kenny. But you're still doing things. And in comes Kenny and says, hey, Mike, you just made 90 days. He goes, let's go celebrate. So I go over to the Yankee Clipper in fucking Babylon or someplace over there.

This is how you celebrate your 90 days of sobriety? Yeah, I go to the Yankee Clipper and have a couple beers with Kenny, me, and my wife and his wife. And it was off to the Yankee Clipper and have a couple beers with Kenny, me, and my wife, and his wife. And it was off to the races again after that. But the fact is that...

Your wife wasn't furious that you just came out of rehab and you fucking drank? No, because she was getting a little bored with me. You know, they live the life too. They love a little of the excitement. Not a lot of it, but some of it. So she was like,

oh, wow, Mike, that was really good. You were able to have one or two beers today. And you didn't take off and get in the Corvette. You didn't get in the Corvette and take off and go buy a kilo and start selling it. Well, that's the other thing. I don't even know if we're up to that or the fucking red vet you're driving around. How the fuck do you think you're going to get away with that? That's what I'm talking about when you started getting high.

When I went to the rehab, when I went to the farm. 87 vets. We call it the farm. In the police department, they call it the farm, the rubber gun squad, whatever. I give my gun and my shield up so I can just go chill. I needed a break. I was driving to work with fucking palpitations,

my neck, my head, everything was tightening up and sweating. I wasn't sleeping. I was chasing the demon at both ends, trying to go to work, trying to hold it together

and so I go do the rehab stint and everything's going okay. Life's getting better. Me and the wife are back together again and that's when Chickie and Walter

get fucking arrested for doing this robbery. Now gotta bail them out what year is this this is like 89 yeah and so i put them in my house and whatever and it turns into a uh i'm back in the circle again with the whole environment and uh you know it's it's it's it's it's drug itself money is a drug itself you know i know but the night you get out of rehab, you fucking started drinking again. Now you're back in the circle. Not the night. That's what you said.

No, 90 days. You went to Yankee Clipper. 90 days. You were clean for 90 days. Right. And then as soon as you got out. Celebrate. Yeah.

No, that's a 90 and 90. No, no, I wasn't out. I was in the street. I was only in rehab for 28 days. Oh, all right. I come out. I did my 90 day stretch we celebrated at the yankee clipper all right so it wasn't like i came out that night oh and then i

went back two more times to the rehab just because they were chasing me because armstrong was coming after me a lot the fucking ico in the 75 precinct oh boy he was a fucking nemesis what's the ico the integrity control officer he was after me christ they have more he was a pain in my ass well they didn't like the vet showing up at the fucking parking in the lieutenant's spot. Listen, when you pull a brand new red Corvette convertible

into the lieutenant's spot and he's trying to fucking get your girlfriend, he knows it's over. Yeah. He knows he's got no fucking chance. You know? Yeah. I just lost 1,500 large

at the fucking casino. You're supposed to be making 600 a year. I got 600. A week. No, clearing $600 every two weeks. Jesus. Really? That was a check that they show in the movie. And you say

in front of the Marlin Commission, you go, I forgot to pick up my checks. How unimportant the check was. Well, when you're getting $8,000 to $4,000 a week, splitting it, and then I was getting ounces here and there, so I was making $4,000 or $5,000 a week. So anyway, so you pull the vet into the fucking lieutenant spot. Things start to, you know, they get a little mad.

And I actually was saying, listen, catch me if you can, motherfuckers. I'm done. I really want this over with. But you people have no fucking nerve or balls to get me. And they didn't want to get me. As it turned out, I started reading all these investigative wires and shit later on. Like they were praying for me to just go away. I finally knew.

I just would have shut up and curled into a corner. Yeah. You know, but I, you know, it's a drug. You know, it's the money, the drug, the life. You know, it's just crazy. You never stop. It's hard to stop. You got to be pulled out of it.

Yeah, you, in the movie, because you keep mentioning greed. Yeah, well, greed is, it's a. But how about the cops? They said, fuck that. We were all tempted by their money, but we didn't do it. What do you say to them? How come we were fucking strong enough

to not be tempted by easy money? What do you say to guys? Well, how about this? How about we ask those guys that want to fucking be... I will when I get them on my show. Mouthy, tough guys. Why don't we ask them this question?

What were they doing about it? About guys like me? Huh? It was okay with them because let me tell you something if they knew about it and they didn't drop a dime on me oh well what does that tell you now I'm not saying they should be rats but they would have been and that's why they didn't do it or and you said that in front of the commission yeah either they didn't want to be labeled as rats so they didn't make the phone call to IAD,

or some did because obviously I got 19 complaints or something made against me, all unfounded. Who the fuck is investigating a guy who's got 19 complaints and they're all unfounded? What the fuck? If there's smoke, there's got to be a fire somewhere. Follow me home. If you see me in a club fucking doing bangers off the bar

or fucking pulling out my fucking dollar bill and rolling it into a fucking straw, something's got to be wrong. I'm doing it off the dashboard of the car after a while. I couldn't give a fuck. I wanted them to catch me. I was done. I wanted to go home and stop playing.

Really? But I was tired. I was tired. I was too fucking wrapped up in the whole thing. And then the cop gets fucking whacked, and we're like, oh, my God. I feel like the blood was on my hands. Was this the venerable? The transit cop?

Robert Venable, yeah. You happen to be, tell that story. You happen to be in the area? Well, the story's horrific. It's sad. I don't want to use this guy's name in any kind of sensationalism, but the fact is what happened was I think he was connected with the cello fucking crew. Not him personally, but the guys that did the shooting were connected with the cello. I think.

That's what it said in the documentary. Did it say that? Okay, see, and I don't know. I did a weekend with this cello crew, and now they try to fucking. Was the cello a lot of company? yes I believe that's right so the call comes over

we got some perp in the back he just did an armed robbery Kenny and I are transporting him back to the precinct station house and we pull into the lot as we're pulling in I'm hearing Thadford and pitkin they're saying it wrong central's missing it i heard it i know what the guy said he said bradford and pitkin so i'm uh

i'm like uh i'm putting it over the essential it's bradford and pitkin whatever i could be saying the street wrong right now it could have been ashford i don't know but the fact is whatever it was i heard it i put it over the air and i tell the guy, get out. You tell the perp to get out. Get out. He's in the backyard of the station now standing around by himself. The handcuffs on.

I said, get the fuck out now. You tell the perp to get out. He gets out of the car. We just take off, Kenny and I. Mark one, first car's on the scene

and here comes this uniformed transit sergeant with this big black guy. Fucking huge. They're carrying him huge I'm like

okay what do you got he goes he's a cop I go oh fuck we pull up the car right next to him put him in throw him in

so we we throw him in the back seat and bingo we take off down Pickett Avenue to Penn Pickett to Penn to fucking Linden

to Brookdale I could I could do it in my sleep this trip so I'm on the radio and driving, despite what Kenny says in the documentary, because Kenny says to me, holy fuck, he's got a hole in his head.

What do we do? I said, well, just start pumping on his chest. Put your hand over the hole. Do something. Don't just stand here and look. I got the fucking car, and we don't need the radio now. Pick into pen to fucking Linden.

I'm going. Mark one. The guy's legs, he's so big, his legs are hanging out. Out the window, yeah. His legs are hanging out the car door. We can't close the door. So there's some guy, there's a guy in the back with us, a cop. Not the guy, not the uniformed sergeant from transit.

Another, like, plain clothes guy. I don't even know who he was. I think he was a housing cop because he was in front of a housing project. Okay. And the housing cop jumped in with us. So he's fucking, close the door. I'm driving down Pickett Avenue.

The guy's pumping on his chest. The blood's shooting out of this fucking guy's head all over the backseat of the car. Anyway, it was a tragic moment. And we handled it as best we could. But it was such a, it was a horrible feeling later on as we just thought things through.

This guy got whacked by some drug dealers in the neighborhood, and we didn't know who they were specifically. No, but there is a connection. There is this connection. And so it was weighing on you. Yeah, it really bothered myself. It still does today. But the fact is that you can't change certain things.

If I should have made a left instead of a right, I wouldn't have hit this car or I wouldn't have done that. But the fact is that everybody makes choices, and it's unfortunate this guy lost his life. I don't think that we had a direct responsibility for that, but people will try to say so. Well, that's... The blood's on your hands.

I was going to ask you about that, because drugs ruin so many lives. That's the only thing. Yeah, you know, they ruin mine too, you know, so what? Well, I know, but you made a conscious decision to fucking... Yeah, well, don't all people?

Yeah, but not everybody's conscious decision ends up with people dying. You know what I mean? It ruined... What's the guy's name? Hall. Joe Hall.

Joe Hall. Yeah. Who said about that specific incident. Yeah. He didn't like... He's like, he's... Mike, he's trying to take credit for, you know, rushing that guy though he just happened to be in the fucking area yeah fuck

him too all right look to joe hall i admire joe hall and respect joe hall but that was not right for him to say that because he doesn't know how i felt and he doesn't know what i did and and i did a lot more than even saying to that situation and kenny could the last guy i want backing me up is right now is Kenny but he can back me up on that Joe Hall I respected in Maya

but he's he's probably minimizing and downplaying anything that I like I could like I could do something good hey fuck

I was a cop for ten and a half years what do you think I did nothing good I saved people's lives I brought babies back to life that were unconscious

I brought 68 year old 68 year old woman is dead on the ground I pumped their chest back to life in fucking catering halls in the riviera i was shaking down the back room of the riviera and some guy passed out and was had a heart attack on the dance floor in the riviera okay but again i mean so i could go down a list wait a minute i can go down the list wait a minute now if i'm playing joe hall here yeah you you saved the guy in a dance floor because you were

there shaking down a fucking Well I was getting a free meal I was getting a free meal From the wedding Food What the fuck I didn't want to pay I can't wait

That was in Coney Island When they sent me to Coney Island You know That's where the movie's Going to start I'm telling you This is where the movie's Going to start

At Coney Island It's going to start In Coney Island Because after Coney Island Where all this other shit Starts The heavy shit But you don't even notice People don't even notice They don't even mention is going to start. At Coney Island? It's going to start in Coney Island because after Coney Island is where all this other shit starts, the heavy shit. But you don't even notice.

People don't even notice. They don't even mention Coney Island in the movie. In the book, in the book, you'll hear this. A cop threatens to kill me at my own house

from Coney Island when I was working in Coney Island. I'm not going to get into the details because it's labyrinthian, whatever you want to call it.

It's got tentacles everywhere. But there's a cop off duty that threatens me in Coney Island and then calls my house about two weeks later and starts threatening me

at 2.30 in the morning when I walk in the door and my phone's ringing. He doesn't say a name, doesn't say anything and then finally I get him to talk. I fucking convince him

to talk and he goes, I could shoot you right now. Boom, I hit the fucking ground in my house and start chewing i could shoot you right now boom i hit the fucking ground in my house and start chewing on the rug and this is me when i got a fucking like seven month old baby and he'd been in the room and my wife and i'm like what year is this this is 1986 so 86 already i'm fucking getting threatened to be killed by a cop and this guy ends up going to fucking jail too so five years into your career, you're already...

Yeah. Okay, so you come out of rehab. You go to the Yankee Clipper, fucking celebrate. Yeah. You said this is the beginning of where it started to unravel. Well... Let's get to that part. Well, because...

Kenny and I no longer work together. That's what happens. So I no longer have control of this fucker. How did that... what was the event that split you up well because I went to the rehab

you went to rehab and he had another partner so now he stays in the 75 and I go for the duck I duck out now I'm in rehab for two years

and I go I'm on my way back to the 75 Kenny just retires he gets his three quarters disability oh Jesus because I'm telling him

Kenny you know it's over he goes yeah so he sets himself up for this three quarters disability because I'm telling him Kenny you know it's over he goes yeah so he sets himself up for this three quarters disability that he broke his wrist anyway I'm not going to get into that

let him answer I'm going to have to have him answer rebuttal what do you want the truth you want the truth I can tell you the truth but he's not going to why would he he'd lose his pension Anyway So he gets his pension

God bless him He's gone Now I'm going back To the 7-5 After I finish my rehab stint Which I don't want I don't want to go anywhere I want to stay rehabbed

With no guns I don't want my guns back Because I'm fucking I'm not trustworthy I know I shouldn't Have my guns back So you don't I'm trying not to

That's ironic You know you're not trustworthy But the cops want to Give you your guns back But they're trying To give have my guns back. So you don't, I'm trying not to. That's ironic. You know you're not trustworthy, but the cops want to give you your gun back. But they're trying to give me my guns back. So I said, listen, all right, whatever.

Whatever you're going to do, you're going to do. I'll just do the best I can. I'll try to do straight eights. We call them straight eights. Just to stay out of trouble. Just to do the right thing. I end up in the 9-4 precinct.

Where's that? It's in Greenpoint. And I end up in sort of like God's country in a way. Because it's like you're fucking getting paid cop salary to hang out with people who hardly speak English, most of them are Polish, and there's a couple, a small Italian section, a small Hispanic, small black section.

Probably not anymore, but... Yeah, no, today it's all fucking heaven, but I mean, it was like beautiful to be a cop from the ghetto and go in there, you're like, oh my God, you get food that you can actually eat and taste, and I found ways to make money there, in the car business. So I was like, good.

I don't have to touch the drugs. But the thing is, the drug always calls you. The drug always calls you. You got people, hey, listen, can you get me a half an ounce? Can you get me a kilo? Can you get me a half a kilo? Whatever it is, you know? And then the fucking fatal call was from Kenny one day.

Kenny was retired with a pension. And he calls me up and says, Mike, can you get me something? What happened is right around Easter time, the Colombians are very religious. Okay. You can't, one thing you can't say is they're very religious. So around. When they're not selling, shooting and fucking killing people. Around Easter, and you'll know this if you look through history, around Easter, the price of cocaine goes up 20 to 40%.

This is fascinating. Yeah. Because they cut back their deliveries and their activities around the holiday. They shut down. And so the price goes up. And now you have people clamoring, like they're holding their supplies, so it's supplying demand.

So the price keeps going up, up, up. Do you see the irony in this? Easter. It's Easter. Jesus rises. Yeah, there's a lot of shit going on Two things rise around Easter Fucking Jesus

And the price of fucking coke Yeah So What the fuck So I get a phone call from Kenny Because he can't get any So I tell him The price is fucking

Went from 22 to 42 For a little small piece he wanted He goes Just get it for me I don't give a fuck Alright So I go to his house

To pick up the money And bingo They're all over the fucking place I go Kenny I turn around I go back to his house To pick up the money And bingo They're all over the fucking place I go Kenny I turn around I go back to his house Knock on the door

Because back then He didn't have cell phones You know Right He goes what's up I go they're all over The fucking place here He goes what are you talking about

I says there's cops There's cops everywhere They're fucking undercover Watching your house Oh I've been following you For years he says Maybe they have been I go

I had to fucking work I make my moves I pick up his piece. I come back that night. The fucking headlights are on me. They didn't stop me. I went to Kenny's house. Came out.

Pop up. Left. I called the next day. Kenny, I was in your house last night. Three fucking cars like sort of just flashed me their brights and stood right at me. And I fucking left. He goes, I don't know what to tell you, Mike. You know, I haven't seen anything.

What the fuck? He hasn't seen anything, this guy. A cop. He hasn't seen anything. He hasn't seen a goddamn thing. So anyway, I'm done now. They got me. They see me.

I don't know this. They already have him. They already have him wrapped. He doesn't know it. Well, that's what I was going to say. He wasn't setting me up that's what I was gonna say He wasn't setting me up Is what I'm saying Hadn't they

Hadn't they been A lot of There was a lot of Surveillance going on For years That you didn't know about All the shit you were doing No I knew

I was being surveilled All the time You did I knew I was being surveilled Alright People I would catch them Tromboli

I kept fucking chasing him I used to chase I used to chase him They cut out some of the shit I was chasing him In the neighborhoods Some of the shit Where I was chasing him In the neighborhoods In your vet? In my vet

Yeah He said in the movie That you'd run like A string of red lights On the way home From the precinct In your vet Yeah

I would catch him all the time But anyway I'd take a piss on the side Remember the Exit 52 on the L.A. They have the parking ride Or whatever it is Yeah

They make all the phone calls They get BJ's over there everybody stops I know exactly the truckers are over there everyone's getting their pipe cleaned anyway so I go over there

take a piss Tromboli pulls in behind me I'm like who does this guy think I don't fucking see him I get in the car I take off he gets in the car

fucking starts following me anyway so I still make my rounds what are you going to do he's there to say excuse me Mike next time you make a drop can you tell me what you get

and how much you're getting for it? You know what I mean? Just wasting his fucking time. Whatever. So anyway, but Kenny was already wrapped up. They had him in two direct sets. And he didn't know it, though. He didn't know it.

But they let the fucking chain keep going to see what would come. And then he calls me. And they had his phone already under wraps and all that other shit. So anyway, once they get you on the phone, you know, he only stopped for four minutes.

Four minutes in and out of someone's house is a drug deal. That's just the way it is. It's just how they, you know, my expertise as a narcotics detective,

usually someone stops at someone's house for less than five minutes and yes, Your Honor, and that's what I say and that's what happened there. So hence, and then we pulled him over

and there was cocaine in the car. So done. So the fact is that, I mean, that that's what I say, and that's what happened there. So hence, and then we pulled him over, and there was cocaine in the car. So done. So the fact is, I mean, that's not what happened to me, but that's what began to happen. And then within, probably within, I went to the Cayman Islands on vacation. I came back from the Cayman Islands, and about a week or two later, I said, Kenny, this is too much. We've got to put a nice package deal together where we don't touch this shit anymore. So I hooked up with one of my local guys that I had a major operation with. He was selling like 35, 40 kilos a week.

And I said, I'm going to give you the money. You're going to put us in for one kilo a day. He said, no problem, Mikey, whatever you want. Of course. So he put us in for a kilo a day. So we had a nice operation set up. We were making about, if I say the numbers, I could be wrong. But say we were making about 15,000 a week now between each two each of us so it's about 30 000 a week we started

to make fucking nice money right we only got it twice but because they were they're already deep in us but i was trying to pull away from the activity and uh so no hands-on type of thing just pay this drug dealer so every time he bought five kilos we got one so he sold 37 35 kilos a week you know we got we got seven sales for that week out of his kilo stuff

I mean I turned into a fucking business I mean I was done with the police money it wasn't doing anything for me and I was all in at that point and I was looking for

any way to make money because the fact is this I tried to go good and people don't know this I really really honestly made that attempt a cop tried to fucking have me killed at my house that's one one of the instances when i tried to go good the second time

i tried to go good no one would work with me in fucking in the 94th precinct so i ended up you know being a half a good half a bad you know so i ended up making money in the car business and still had my hand in the drug business so when kenny called up bingo i handed him his fucking piece and now i'm in the loop over there And then I go down But the fact is that Because I had no control over Kenny At that point in his life He was already retired Three quarters disability

You know The worst thing he ever did Was meet me The worst thing he ever did Was I met him The worst thing ever The best thing ever happened to Kenny Was he met me

He got all his fucking Free drug money He learned how to sell drugs Almost Not quite He made some money doing that He got a three quarters disability pension He buys a cash A house cash out in Florida

So he's got a pension the rest of his life His wife's father left him a half a million dollars in cash He did quite well this guy And the worst thing he ever did was meet me He got a three million dollar value pension At least And you were selling in Long Island right? Selling shit out in Long Island

Well I had a small clientele I had a small A liquor store owner One lawyer selling this shit out and I well I had a small clientele you know I had a small you know a liquor store owner one lawyer you know a couple of fucking bartenders

and shit like mate like you know like real men though not like a Harry guy who was young and immature Harry was 20

21 years old you know my guys was established drug business people they were like professionals right unlike

Kenny and his crew well 54 people were arrested with us 54 people were arrested people don't know the facts They were like professionals. Right. Unlike Kenny and his crew. Well, 54 people were arrested with us. 54 people were arrested. People don't know the facts. Civilians. 54 people were arrested. Six of us were police officers.

I knew two people, my partner and Kenny, my current partner and Kenny. That was it. Of course, I didn't know Kenny's wife. Maybe I should have said that. One of the things they asked me not to bring up alright so okay

so when when does it go down you eventually I'm at work in the 94th precinct yeah and they haven't called

my sector in two days I'm like what this is awfully this has been awfully quiet so what happened was they knew it was coming so I picked up a piece for Kenny the last day.

Who knew it was coming? The NYPD. They knew it was coming. So we'd go on patrol as a regular day of patrol, but they would never call our sector because they didn't want us doing anything police-wise. And they were following every move we made all day long. And I kept seeing them, but I wouldn't tell my partner.

I didn't want to scare them. Because I figured out they're following me again. You know, what am I doing today? All I'm doing is buying a brick of fucking coke. I'm not like,

I'm doing anything serious. You know, what was, unless you're on the other end of the sale, you don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm going to a store, coming out with a bag.

You think it's chips? It's a fucking brick. Whatever. So, and then I dropped it off to Kenny. Kenny comes to meet me at work. I throw it in his car He drives back to Long Island

Bingo The house gets busted When he walks in with the drop And The sandwich shop is closed They call me into the 94th precinct Come on we want to talk to you I go inside

Turn around There's badges everywhere flying And it got ugly after that I'll describe that in the detail of my book Well in the movie, what's the scene you're putting pants on out of your locker

and you got coke in your pants? Yes. Right? Yes. Which had me fucking belly laughing. Oh my God, it was horrible. What the fuck am I going to do with this?

I tried like hell to get rid of it but they kept blocking my pants every time I okay, I'm going to get rid of it in that pail. I'm going to just walk past the pail and throw it in the pail.

They blocked the pail. Then I had a flanks of cops Walk me into Left rack city Flanks I'm talking A hundred of them I get out of the patrol car I'm like

The mayor's here What the fuck's going on I'm here to take a piss test They said I went This looks like It's a little more serious Than a piss test

Oh my god And then I went to open the windows I smoked I was smoking in the car So I said You guys wanna open the window Cause there's no fucking handles In the back I smoked I was smoking in the car So I said You guys want to open the window Because there's no fucking handles In the back

I'm like I'm in the back of a car With no handles Something's not right here How about you guys open the window Because I'm going to smoke I smoked a cigarette Chain smoked fucking cigarettes

So they would open the windows I was going to take the shit And throw it out the window While I was driving And they wouldn't do it They wouldn't open the window For themselves They wouldn't open it for themselves

They're like Go ahead They're coughing and choking I'm fucking trying Okay when i get out of the car i'm gonna get rid of it as soon as i step out of the car well they opened the door for me because i couldn't open it myself so i was standing right next to me i'm like fuck i can't dump it yet but i'll get a chance between here and the entranceway to left rack city and there was a flanks of cops there all gold shields like everybody had a gold shield. That's the upper breath? Whoever they were.

And then the elevator opens up, and there's a bunch of scrambled eggs. People will know what I'm talking about. There's fucking more scrambled eggs on their cap. On their hats, yeah. On their caps. There's like scrambled eggs all over the place. I'm like, holy fuck, this is pretty serious for a drug test, you know? I get in the elevator, I go upstairs, and there's this lieutenant waiting.

His whole fucking career, he was waiting to get me. What's his name? It's a German fucking guy, Hoff something. I don't remember. Hoff and Schmaffer. I don't know. Colonel Clink? Yeah, he was a scumbag. Everybody hated him because he

thrived on taking cops down. He thrived on it. Guys have thrived on it and you know you guys have a problem they have a problem you know i mean you know the police department today you can't have a fucking drug you can have an alcohol problem they'll take care of you but if you have like an oxycodone or fucking yeah uh coke or fucking whatever montega heroin whatever the fuck they have if you have any kind of problem like that at all you're fired you're terminated and you know you know it's the reality of life people do have problems so what happens is this you go on the ground then if you

have a problem in your police officer you have to go you're forced on the ground right what your problem you can't say listen i need some help so now you go on the ground then what happens you commit more crimes and more atrocities because you just have to because you feel there's no way out like a trap a rat trapped in a cage he's gonna you know fight and chew his way out so that's that's you know i actually i was i'm working with internal affairs now for the u.s police department did you know that i did not yeah i did not i just that was in a movie i know not right now as we speak i did um it's just current uh thursday friday this past week uh i was in with them and helping them with some things

and we're putting together a an extensive uh informative um video and i think i think if things go smoothly i may be speaking before some recruits and stuff like that so you know some you know in a way i'm really really thankful in an odd way that my life is turning around now and thanks to this movie i guess guess, in some respects. You know, listen, this movie shows an ugly side of the police department. It shows an ugly side

of what human beings can become. But I think at this point in my life, I've earned the right to speak candidly and honestly about everything I've done. I did my time. I served my price. The price has never ended,

by the way. I continually pay for it. So for all you haters out there, I'm still paying for it. I can't even get a fucking steady job still. Okay? So life is not easy.

Yeah. So you'll be happy to know that if you're a fucking hater. Yeah. So it is what it, and I gave up the family of police, which is really a very lonely feeling because you never really stop being a cop

even though there's going to be people who say right now, he never was a cop. He was a piece of shit. Well, fuck you too. I was a cop. I still have a cop in my heart. But you know what? I'm a realist today i don't see everything everything's not black and blue

today or blue and white there's there is a gray and this is in the middle when it comes to police work some guys fucking don't belong in the police force well you said right in the documentary at one point you you said i look at myself as a gangster and a cop yeah it's it's ironic you know uh you know maybe i should put a t-shirt out. Cop or gangster. 7-5. Figure it out. You know?

Because they're beating cops up out there, too. Maybe cops should be a little gangster at some points. I mean, some of the shit that's going on today is ridiculous. How about at the end, though? You're out on bail, right? Yeah, well, that's all bullshit. That's all set up by the feds. The whole thing. The whole kidnapping?

The whole thing. There's no fucking kidnapping. That's Kenny. Kenny's the kidnapper, not me. That's all bullshit. Is that right? That's the thing. There's no fucking kidnapping. That's Kenny. Kenny's the kidnapper, not me. That's all bullshit. Is that right? That's the facts. In the movie, yeah.

In the movie, they have you come up with this plan to... I never had a plan to kidnap anybody. But that's what it says in the movie. I'm just saying. It says that, but that's not the facts. The facts are this. You're going to kidnap some Colombian... The facts are that you're supposed to go to this broad's house and take her money and

her drugs and leave her. Goodbye. Goodbye. But Kenny, because he's working for the feds and wearing a wire, continues to massage the case, to massage it, to make it bigger and make it better in his direction so that he's saving the fucking day. Listen, I've never put anybody's hair out of place in my life. I mean, you know, one thing is I'm an excitable guy. You know, was I a tough guy a little bit if I had to be?

But, you know, I— So you weren't going to get 700 grand of cash and 10 kilos? Yeah, I was an excitable guy. You know, was I a tough guy a little bit if I had to be? But, you know, I... So you weren't going to get 700 grand of cash and 10 kilos? Yeah, I was. Yeah. From a woman. But you're saying it involved no kidnapping? None of that. All it involved was bringing flowers to the lady's house and having her open the door.

But was that part true the same day there was a murder in the neighborhood? Yeah, of course. Of course, I fucking called Kenny like a jerk. And by the way, I knew Kenny was wearing a wire at times, but I wanted to believe. This is how desperate people get when they get in a bad situation. I know he's wearing a wire.

I'm asking him, are you wearing a wire today? No. And back then, it wasn't hard to find out. It was like carrying on a goddamn stereo. Right. It was huge.

I didn't have the, I don't want to say the nerve because I certainly had nerve, but it was like, I knew't have the, I don't want to say the nerve, because I certainly had nerve. But it was like, I knew he was cheating on me, but I didn't want to believe it. And that's just the way it was. I don't want to believe you're doing this to me, Kenny, right? You're not really doing me the way I think you're doing me, are you? And like Kenny, he's known for his hair.

Never out of place, perfectly coiffed. And he's got the window open in the fucking car. I got the air conditioner blowing 90 miles an hour. So I look at him, Kenny, why you got the window open? the fucking car I got the air conditioner Blowing 90 miles an hour So I look at him Kenny Why you got the window open I know something's not right Because I just chased the feds

I just chased the feds They're fucking sitting Around the block from my house I said Kenny this car doesn't belong here This is on your way To Avon Avenue Whatever the fuck

This is a couple days prior to that Prior to that But eventually On the way to Avon Avenue I turn Put the scanner Put the scanner on He goes Oh we're not going there to do a burglary.

There's a burglary stakeout that comes over the air. There's a burglary stakeout on Avon today. I look at him. They're fucking all over the place. He goes, yeah, but we're not going there for burglaries, Mike. We're going there to do an execution and a kidnapping. I said, oh, really? We are?

I said, first of all, he goes, wow. I go, what are you talking about? I said, we're not going there for that. We'll go, one, two, we're not supposed to. He's going, well, we got to go up to that door. I go, what? We're never even supposed to go. The Columbians are supposed to go to the door.

It's their fucking, their coke and the cash. We're just supposed to split the booty for setting it up, you know? He goes, well, I'm not taking this drive without going up to that front door. I says, well, you can go to the front door if you want, motherfucker. I ain't. So we turn the block. I see like 75 fucking cars and people. I know they're cops.

I'm like, I jump back on the Grand Central Parkway and head straight home. They cut half the shit out, believe me. Those tapes are cut out by the feds because I'm telling him, you fucking piece of shit. I know you set me up. I was going to say, you ask him on the phone and in the movie you say what how did they know yeah well yeah you know and he had an answer for that yeah he had a fucking yeah yeah yeah that wasn't on the phone that wasn't a tape that was a wire he was wearing that was a wire the phone that's right the phone was different phone was different then i call his fucking house yeah after his wife his

wife he goes to me i go to his house i go i want to calm down now we just fucking escaped this major shit right we get back to his house i say listen let me i just want he goes all right i'll see you later he gets out of the fucking car i mean you'll see me later hold on let's talk about this let's discuss this because i want i'm not comfortable you know get out of the car and talk you know what i let's go upstairs go in the house and talk he goes well hold on let me check and see if my wife is dressed like dressed I've seen you I've had your wife

naked in bed with me what the fuck I gotta see you gotta see if she's dressed for Christ's sake who gives a shit if she's dressed

it's fucking odd you know so finally he comes yeah come on in so she comes out of the shower all wet and she's hugging me

and what happened Mike I go oh jeez we pulled the fast one off thank God we didn't get pinched she's like oh my God look around there's no fucking furniture in the house yeah he was already on his way off I go oh jeez Dory We pulled the fast one off Thank God we didn't get pinched She's like oh my God Look around There's no fucking furniture

In the house Yeah he was already On his way off I go what the fuck Is your furniture He goes Oh well you know It shows better

Yeah it shows better He's trying to sell his house He's selling the fucking house That was a week Yeah But that's how desperate you are Right you'll believe anything You're looking to believe anything

At this point Yeah Alright yeah I go home My wife says Yeah last night, Dory told me if I never see you again,

remember I love you. I said, she told you this last night? I go, she goes, yeah, I go, holy fuck. I get on the phone.

I go, I said, Dory, where's Kenny? She says, oh, he's sleeping. I said, he's sleeping. Get him the fuck up

right now. She goes, he's at his lawyer's office. I go, really? Bingo. I get in the fucking car. I book right to his lawyer's, Nyberg. Fucking Amy Fisher, one of those lawyers.

I was going to say Nyberg. It sounds familiar. I've seen his ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was Amy Fisher's lawyer. I don't know. One of those fuckers. Anyway.

Like Jacoby and Myers. Yeah, he's got the fucking best lawyer in the country representing this prick. Paul Myberg. Yeah, because he's got fucking money, and his wife's got plenty of money. I'm fucking pulling strings together. Well, not that I didn't have money, but I had a lot of homes and real estate. Plus, they shook my house down. They took all my layaround cash.

Anyway, so this is about we're out on bail. The state let me go. I'm bail. Now the feds, and I'm trying to leave. What is this? I'm trying to leave the country. I'm trying to go to Nicaragua to become a shrimp boat captain. The owner of the fucking Astoria Manor.

Okay, they mentioned that. The owner of the Astoria Manor asks me. You were going there to be a shrimp? Shrimp boat captain. Okay, in the movie it says that's where you were taken off after you're going to do the kidnapping. You're going to take your money and run to Nicaragua. But you wanted to be a shrimp. I wanted to be a shrimp boat captain in the in the movie it says that's where you were taken off after you're gonna do the kidnapping you're gonna take your money run the nick raglan yeah so you wanted to be shrimp i want to be shrimp boat captain down there what the fuck what the fuck do i know all i know is i gotta go you forrest gump yeah i know all i know is i don't want to go to state prison

for 25 to life of course the fuck i'm ready to go anywhere so it turns into a fucking hell of a beans and oh man I'm getting exhausted. Just recanting some of this shit. But yeah. So that's OK. So that's the final nail in the coffin. So the nail in the coffin is Kenny's got the fucking wire on. And he's in the lawyer's office.

I catch him in the lawyer's office. I go, what the fuck are you doing here, bro? He goes, well, you know, I'm a little nervous about what we did today, Mike. I go, really? What did we do? We didn't do anything. We went for a car ride. So the lawyer goes, whoa, you did go there to kidnap somebody.

I go, no, we didn't. What are you telling this guy, Kenny? Well, Mike, we went there, you know, to take this shit. Now he's telling the truth. We went there to take this shit. I said, Kenny, the only one who knows that is you and me. No one fucking needs to know that. I said, number one.

Number two, we weren't going. It was a dry run. This was a dry run. It two, we weren't going. It was a dry run. This was a dry run. It wasn't even the fucking run. This was a dry run. We didn't even fucking surveil the house properly

yet to do anything. This was a dry run. And he's got us going to the door. I go, oh, I knew something was wrong when he said that earlier on in the car ride.

Going to the door, we're not even supposed to be going to the door. This is a dry run. Oh, I'm not taking this ride without going up to that front door and getting arrested. You he's fucking how stupid are you jerk off i'm desperate but i'm not stupid no that was stupid so anyway we pull back and in the end

the fucking flying into my my cul-de-sac i called the sack yes yeah my fucking nine bedroom house you're whipping it oh it was fucking scary. I said, oh, God, I'm looking around. How do I get out of this fucking place now? Unbelievable. It's like I'm starting to sweat and shake. But you were kind of relieved, no? When you're in the back car and it's over, you're like, oh, God.

Thank God it's over. Again. I was relieved the first time when they pinched me. I'm like, great. But, you know, what happened is reality strikes and you say, gotta live a life now either that or i gotta go to prison so you know that's when you start getting back into that you know deprecation your mind to start doesn't now you're not thinking clearly now you're like you've left the rat in the cage you know you you know i always found ways out of trouble i guess my whole fucking life and you know i was able to

either out smart out where whatever the terms were that you could use, craftiness. I was always in a little bit of trouble, but never too much, and I was in a little bit more trouble than I wanted to be in. And he doesn't do any time. Kenny doesn't do a fucking day.

Day. Yeah. You go in front of the Marlin Commission? Correct. I don't know how it works. Right, right. You agree to go into that commission, did that help reduce your sentence?

Well, here's the story. They came to me twice, and I told them no. They put this commission together because of all this? Of course, of us, yes. Because of you, guys. Essentially because of me and the tone throughout the city. Okay. And they know what's going on, okay?

I didn't just break the fucking egg, you know what I mean? Right, of course. I was the first guy, all right? But the fact is that i'm gonna be the boy you know i'm gonna be the one the white irish guy from long island they could put all the fucking troubles on from the police department when the reality is this wasn't the face of corruption it was just part of corruption so anyway they put the that on me so now they want me to cooperate with them i tell them listen you're gonna have massive suicides and fucking, the police department is going to fucking take a major hit over this commission.

So what are you going to do for the cops? They said, we don't give a fuck how many cops commit suicide. If they're bad, we don't care. I said, well, what about their wives and kids and their families? And they said, let them worry about themselves. This is the fucking commission telling me. I do not mince my words. I'm straightforward.

All right. I said, okay. I really don't want to deal with your people. Goodbye. So anyway, this jerk off McAleary comes out and starts writing newspaper articles about how many people I whacked. Okay. Zero.

But he's got me down for nine in the newspaper. You're kidding me. No. So the lawyer fucking. They can't. There's no way of verifying that. I can tell you what they wrote in the article. So anyway, the lawyer. I'm on the phone. They can't, there's no way of verifying that? They don't, I can tell you what they wrote in the article. So anyway, the lawyer, I'm on the phone with the lawyer.

He goes, listen, Mike, the only one that's going to help you now is this commission. He says, they've asked me again after this article came out if you would fucking come cooperate with them. If you cooperate with them, you don't have to give anybody up. You just have to tell them what you did and how you did it so that you can give them. Now, who's telling you this? Your lawyer? My lawyer.

You can give them a game plan on how they can prevent guys like you from getting away with what you did. I said, all right. He said, I said, so the fact is this. I'm not going to testify against anybody. I'm not going to agree to testify against anybody, but I'll tell you how I did it, how I got away with it.

Part of the implication is you have to tell them everything you did along the way, so you clear the slate. It's almost like a proffer today, but you have to tell them what you did, how you did it. Otherwise, the feds fucking come back and get you with anything they want

and the feds are a motherfucker. They'll come after you. I mean, Martha Stewart fucking couldn't beat them. So let me tell you something. If the feds come and get you, it's already over. People just don't know it. It's done.

You're done. When they come in and knock on the door it's over so it's just a matter of cutting your losses so now i'm in the fucking hole they offered me 30 to life the first trip the second trip was 24 to 30 i went to my lawyer did i fucking kill somebody i gotta i gotta sign a plea agreement for 24 to 30 years and my lawyer goes don't ever look at the bottom number he says because you're not getting it no wonder what the agreement is they don't call it a deal in the federal government they call a plea agreement there's no deals okay so you're gonna agree to put yourself away i'm in the fucking uh thing my wife's yelling don't take the plea mike if she cares at them don't take the plea i look around at her and she has no idea

what i turned down already so i got him down to 12 and a half to 15 and a half years. And the Marlin Commission said they would come into the fucking courtroom if I was honest with them and forthright and helpful that they would express to the judge the detail to which I was. I mean, you know, so I did my thing. And instead of getting, because the judge was going to give me the 15 and a half plus, she said. And she said, it's clearly at my sentencing, she said this. And then she said, but the fact is that you were very helpful to the Marlin Commission. And you helped them, helped straighten out some of the police nonsense that's going on out there. So I'm going to give you a sentence right in the middle of your guidelines.

Because in the federal government, they have guidelines. You go 12 and a half to 15. She gave me 14 years. I served 12 years, five months, and like 23 days. And you never implicated anybody else? I never implicated any of the cops, no. It is what it is.

You know? I'm not a fucking hero for that. It just, it is what it is. And, and, and. I was taught in my life to take your own weight. I don't know,

my dad taught me that. If you do something wrong, take your own weight for it. So, I tried to. You know, listen, I don't hold anything against Kenny for what he did, by the way.

In the end, for what he did? No. Just what he did after, when he started to set me up and lay the fucking groundwork for the feds. That pissed me off. Because he didn't have to do that. There's no reason for that. You want to turn on me? Go ahead.

At this point, there was 11. Listen, there was 13 or 14, maybe 20 fucking cooperating witnesses against me. People just making the fucking, they were calling the government up saying they were in jail. Oh, I know that guy. They didn't fucking know me. They worked in East, they were drug dealers in East New York.

Yeah, I did shit with him. They were all jumping on the bandwagon. They could just make shit up. The government's like, you willing to say this? Yeah. You willing to say that? Yeah, he took money from you?

Yeah. They were fucking taking agreements from anybody. Anybody with a fucking drug dealer conviction. And a prison life of cops usually horrendous site but i know she mentioned that they kept away from you you just walked the yard alone you said a lot and mostly yeah mostly had a few i had a few guys that would come up to me and and and spend time with me but they would always be ostracized themselves so they were taking a big risk you know when you're a cop in prison you're nobody wants you yeah you're seeing with you right

exactly yes so you know but there were one some guys that just didn't give a shit, sort of like me. They didn't want to be told what to do. So, you know, like I'm walking with the guy, go fuck yourselves. You know, people had to have the nerve to step up to them then. And listen, prison life is a little different than people talk about. You know, it's a life. People try to live a life. And there's always conflict like there is in life.

But in prison, you don't go to bed with conflict hanging I mean someone put me in a I almost got stabbed up my last four months after doing like 11 and a half 12 years

I almost got stabbed my last fucking month in prison it's a long story it'll be I don't know if it'll be in the book but the fact is

it was not an easy ride every day I was mentally tortured because I had to know that there could be a guy at any minute trying to make a name for himself and using me as the fucking scapegoat. Do you still talk to Kenny? I have.

I mean, I've spoken to Kenny at events that we've gone to. And we're friendly. You know, we have disagreements on certain things. Are you still friendly? I don't hate Kenny. Not happy with certain things. But I'm an adult adult today so i can speak to somebody the wives still i don't have to i think they do but you'd have to you know i i think they do like facebook shit and stuff like that yeah once in a while yeah how about but this now to me this typifies you

uh your personality and what i've liked i mean i guess you're about to go into your cell or whatever joey hall's there the guy that you hate and and i listen i don't hate joey hall that's wrong i think you said you did well maybe i hate what he said that's not right you know he tried to minimize my involvement in that in the venable situation and cast it off as though i was lucky to be there. You know, the fact is that I put myself in harm's way which is not,

I'm not asking for a medal for the fucking thing. No, I know. And I actively pursued trying to save that guy's life. Joe Hall and I, I respect it. I admire Joe Hall

more than I admired any, him and Mike Redmond and he knows who I'm talking about if Joe Hall ever hears this. I love Joe Hall. I respect Joe Hall. Joe Hall is a fucking hero cop.

He's a really good one. So he says He's like I didn't like what he said About me That's all You said I'm doing 14 to 16 I'm not a scumbag

And he said I'd give you You know I would have given you A lot more I would have given you Whatever And you go

At least the Rangers Won the cup The life The year wasn't a total waste At least the Rangers Won the Stanley Cup You know And then you hear

And then he says He hears your fucking Shale Sobs That was a little dramatic Wasn't it I said Come on What is he sitting there

Waiting for it to slam I was gonna say What's he doing He's writing a book When he did that But you really said that About the Rangers Absolutely

Jonah Hall and I Listen You're just about to do A stretch of 12 years Right Well listen This is what I'm talking about My whole life

I lived fucking Rangers I'm a regular guy Just cause I shook down drug dealers. No, I know. Joe Hall and I- But that's not going to be on most people's mind. Is it going to their fucking cell or whatever? Well, it must have just happened then.

I was 94. Yeah, 94. 94 was the summer of 94. Yeah, Messier, the whole fucking great thing. Come on, I'm a hockey player. My teeth are all banged up. Yeah, Joe Hall and I, we used to go to hockey games together, okay? Is that right Smackdown

together no shit and I used to bring fucking booze up to the squad room for them okay so Joe Hall and I had a fucking

a little bit more of a relationship than it sounds like have I seen his his face looked familiar I don't know if I've seen him in other shit maybe in the papers

or something he looked very familiar well Joe Hall's been around quite a while he's actually an excellent detective by the way. He's fucking, he is the man. There's no question about it.

I learned a lot from him. Did you? Yeah, I did, absolutely. You mean good stuff or bad stuff? No, good stuff. No, real good stuff. Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing you mentioned.

I was a fucking good cop. Well, you said right at the beginning when you were a young cop, if you didn't go along with some of the bad shit, you'd get ostracized by the other cops. Well, that's true. Yeah, it's true, of of course And we're not here To justify what I did

No I know Christ no I made 47 arrests Like I said I defend cops all the time I'm in show business A bunch of liberal Fucking assholes

Busting my butt I made 47 arrests in 10 years I made 40 in my first Year and a half What does that tell you? Say that again I made 47 arrests In my career

From what I heard That's what I heard And 40 came in the first? 40 in the first year and a half. Well, you were busy the other year. Well, I had no time to make arrests.

Well, the job turned, you know. The job turned. It went into the quota system. It turned the whole fucking job around. Real quickly, I wanted to bring this

up at the end. I just wanted to get your opinion, you know, and this is different. The cop situation today and Black Lives Matter and unarmed black people

getting shot by supposedly white cops. And, and, and I, uh, well not supposedly, but, uh,

you know, like this past weekend, Maryland, Maryland, they weren't all white. The cops that, no, I know.

Absolutely. I was going to talk about Ferguson. It was a one year anniversary yesterday. And you got black, black lives are out there marching and protesting. Well, the guy raising hell again let me tell you something that guy wouldn't broke my fucking eye socket no one would break my eye

socket if i had a gun not happening so i'm saying i don't i don't i don't get this my my it's all a bunch of bullshit okay let's listen well i'm with you on this one life matters everybody's life matters right when i say bullshit i'm saying that the guy's dead. Does he deserve to be dead? Probably not. But the fact is, give people, this is, here, let's get into it.

Give the cop a lethal, give him a lethal, a non-lethal alternative. And I don't mean a day billy or something, because if the guy's a monster, take it from you, knock you out with it.

Even tases don't work on guys on angel dust and shit. Give him a shot anyway, right? At least you can start with something. How about a camera? Fuck it all. Because you're getting filmed. Listen, if you're a cop out there, you're getting filmed, whether you like it or not.

That's right. Everybody's got a phone. Freaking move. Listen, I've witnessed several of them since the last two years. I've witnessed several in Manhattan. The cops handled themselves amazingly well. Amazing. And there was people standing there filming them the whole time.

They didn't give a fuck about what was going on. They were just filming the cops. And they always get there after the shit happens. And these cops handled themselves so well.

I was very proud at that moment. I'm never a cop. I never will be a cop. Can't be a cop. You're never a cop. But the fact is I was so proud of those guys

and the way they handled themselves right in front of the premiere. Right in front of my fucking theater. It was going on. Are you kidding me? They were assigned

to the fucking theater these two cops. It's from the 6 Are you kidding me? They were assigned to the fucking theater, these two cops. It's from the 6-0 precinct. They sent them to Manhattan. They're handling a brawl. I called a 10-13 on them, whatever. But the fact is that they handled so well. But if they had a camera on them,

the people would know what they actually go through on a daily basis. They'll get in film anyway. You might as well use it. So that's starting to happen. Society has changed. That's happening. Society has changed.

Yes. Everything advances. Yes. Step up with it. Evolution.'s starting to happen. Society has changed. That's happening. Society has changed. Yes. Everything advances. Yes. Step up with it. Evolution. Get in with it because it's coming. So you might as well be there. And it'll minimize and eliminate all the second guessing because cops have a fucking tough job.

It's a brutal job. I'm not stroking them. No, I know. I'm not stroking anybody here. But you don't get paid shit either. Well, that's another story. But, you know, we're not here to, I mean, should they all get more money? Yeah.

But the fact is, you know, some places they're getting $125,000 a year. You know, some execs and some companies aren't making that kind of money. So, you know, it's all a balance, you know. The fact is, you know, I used to laugh. My brother would work in Queens and I'd work in Brooklyn. You know, I'm like, he gets the same as me. Was it Denkens when you were there? Denkens.

Well, we started out with Koch and then Denkens. Right, you had a little of both. Yeah, and then Giuliani the same as me. Who was it? Was it Dinkins when you were there? Dinkins. Well, we started out with Koch, then Dinkins. Right. You had a little of both. Yeah, and then Giuliani won because of me, I say. Giuliani won the fucking election because of me, yet he tells everybody I should have got life in prison.

And fuck you, too. What the fuck am I getting life for? How about de Blasio? Yeah, de Blasio. You know, he's a strange character. Look, I know he's not behind the cops at all, but you know what? He won the election.

I don't know what to say. And actually, I have to give him some credit because in the last couple of months, I think he's turned the corner a little bit. Listen, I'm not a supporter. I know that the cops are against him in some respects, but I think he's starting to realize that he needs the cops with him and not against them you know uh I'm trying to be politically correct

here for a moment because the reality is people do change I think he's made some some positive steps I understand right not that I don't for a fact but I understand plus I'm now involved with the internal affairs division I'm doing some stuff with the police department which I hope is helpful now are they going to be cops off there going, look at this fucking guy. Now he's with Internal Affairs. Oh, well. Grow up. No, I know.

But what the fuck? He would have hated anybody that was on Internal Affairs. This guy's a walking contradiction. Well, some people, listen, you need Internal Affairs out there, don't you? Of course you do. Okay. So there you go. Yeah.

There you go. You wouldn't have said that a few years ago. No, I might have. You know, it's to get other people, not me. Yeah. To get other people. All right. Well, hey might have. It's to get other people, not me. Yeah. To get other people. All right. Well, hey, folks.

Mike, thank you so much, brother. Don't forget to plug my book. All right? What's the name of the book? Well, we're working on the name. I think it's going to be The 7-5, The House That Coke Built, a variation of that. Maybe you'll have me back on. Of course.

Of course. TheMikeDowd.com And At TheMikeDowd On Twitter And he's got An Instagram too Instagram account

Right And And you can check out Listen You're gonna have a hard time now Because I know They're gonna be selling The 7.5

They're gonna be selling The 7.5 So like It's no longer on demand I guess But if you get in early Go through Go to

TheMikeDowd.com Website And I think you can you get in early go through go to the Mike Dowd website and I think you can get an early purchase not not through me specifically I don't get any money for it right but you can go through my website and find the link there's a link on my website you don't get any money for this Mike do I have to fucking look at this listen I I wish I did because if I did they'd sell a lot fucking more movies I can tell you right now they're making a lot of mistakes this company that's handling my movie my moves not even my movie whoever owns this movie yeah but whoever's doing this is handling it wrong they can make a lot more if they let me go but they got me they got me by the neck they won't

let me go well i appreciate you uh for doing the show man i'm glad you had me you know i'm glad my son and you hooked up and we then we hooked up yeah that's how that's how this came about i'm waiting to do mark maron's podcast i'm sitting in my car across the street from a hotel. I check my Twitter account, and it's a morning, and Mike Dowd, it's Mike Dowd. D. Mike Dowd. It says, my son loves you. He's a fan of your comedy or whatever. So then I hit Mike back, and here he is. And I hope the movie's a big hit for you.

Yeah, yeah. So send him out there. You're a complicated guy. Everybody's complicated. Who isn't, right? We're all a lot. I'm a lover, but I'm a lover first, okay? There you go okay there you go

whatever that means folks so that's it you kids I will I will see you next week come out to see me at the music fest

like I said in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania on the 21st of this month you know the rest of the dates are at nickdip.com I'll talk to you next time bitches time, bitches. I'm not going to do it. I didn't know it was

official. I won't take all that they hand me down. And make out I smile though I wear a frown. And I'm not going to take it all life down. Because once I get started, I go to town. And I'm not gonna take it all life down

Cause once I get started I go to town Cause I'm not like everybody else, no no I'm not like everybody else I'm not like everybody else, well I'm not like everybody else. I'm not like everybody else. guitar solo guitar solo