The NoSleep Podcast - Tales From the Void - Behind the Scenes Podcast - Episode 02

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

This Behind the Scenes Podcast is your chance to go behind the curtain to learn more about the people who have created the new horror anthology streaming series: Tales From The Void. Hosted by David Cummings from The NoSleep Podcast and one of the executive producers of Tales From The Void. He'll be speaking with the various writers and directors who brought these sleepless tales to the screen. New episodes of Tales From The Void will be available to stream weekly on Screambox in the US & Super Channel in Canada starting on Oct 13th. On this episode, we meet Matt Dymerski whose tale "The Black Square" was the inspiration for the first episode of Tales From the Void, titled "Into the Unknown". We'll learn about what inspired Matt to write this story and how it reflects on issues faced in our society today. Click here to learn more about Tales From the Void Click here to learn more about Matt Dymerski Follow Tales From the Void on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on IMDb. Tales From the Void – The Behind the Scenes Podcast is a Creative Reason Media production, in conjunction with Envoi Entertainment. Music by Alex Cuervo and Brandon Boone. Audio program ©2024 – Creative Reason Media Inc. – All Rights Reserved – No reproduction or use of this content is permitted without the express written consent of Creative Reason Media Inc. The copyrights for each story are held by the respective authors.

From the silence, from the darkness, from your nightmares, Tales from the Void, Behind the Seans podcast. Welcome back to the Tales from the Void Behind the Seans podcast. I'm David Cummings, host of the No Sleep podcast, and one of the executive producers of Tales from the Void. Joining me on this episode is author Matt Dimerski. Fans of the Nostley podcast will be quite familiar with many of Matt's stories, as we have adapted 24 of them for the podcast over the years.

One of Matt's stories that captivated our listeners was a story called The Black Square, and it was this story that caught the attention of Tales from the Void showrunner, Francesco Los Giavo. He adapted the Black Square for the Premier and episode of Tales from the Void. I had the pleasure of speaking with Matt from his home in New Zealand as we talk about his writing and how the Black Square came to be, not only onto the page, but now onto the screen. And so, join me as we delve into the dark world of the void. Matt Demoski, author, extraordinaire, longtime No Sleep podcast collaborator, welcome to Tales from

The Void Behind the Seens podcast, and it's exciting to be able to talk to you about the premiere episode, an episode we've titled Into the Unknown based on your story, The Black Square. Thanks for being with us, Matt. Yeah, great to be here. Always a pleasure. Awesome. Now, I was doing a bit of research for this, and I was looking at the number of stories that we've done of yours on the No Sleep podcast, and I count 24 stories. So clearly one of the most prolific authors that we've collaborated with. And it goes all the way back to season one, episode two, where we did your story, The Basement, and love that story.

One of my faves from, yeah, like literally the start of the show. And then some of the others that stood out to me, season two, episode 25, we did your story, psychosis, a story you're very well known for. Incredible. Obviously, psychological horror. Another favorite of mine is Season 5, Episode 24, House Moravec, which was a great story. Nicole Doolin was a part of that one. She did such a great job. And then on Season 10, Episode 16, The Black Square, and of course, that's the main story we're here to talk about today. So, yeah, thanks for being such a big part of the podcast, especially in the early days. So, Matt, we're doing this interview. I'm in Canada,

and you are in the land of Kiwis and Hobbits, New Zealand, and I don't detect a Kiwi accent from you. So tell us how you ended up way down on the other side of the world. Oh, boy. So this was an Odyssey. I had been writing, you know, horror, science fiction for probably 10 years at that point. And I had also, as a hobby, been like coding and working on computer games. And so, a friend of mine says, hey, there's a job opening for like a horror, fantasy, RPG, computer game in New Zealand. And I was like, I'm not going to move to New Zealand. That's ridiculous. And all my friends were like, no, you should, you should really go. And I'm like, oh, geez, okay, thanks. But actually, they were serious. And I applied and I got in, and it was basically a dream job. I could diffuse all the skills and hobbies I've ever done. moved over here in 2018, just enough to get situated and have the whole world shut down for COVID.

And it's been quite the odyssey. But now, like I have to say, I'm so glad I moved here because, you know, I just met my partner. I'm getting married in a couple months. So super psyched. Everything's going well. Oh, that's awesome. Congratulations on that.

Did the coding and the gaming and all that stuff, were there any titles released, any games that we and the audience might be familiar with? Well, I was hired to work on Path of Exx. 2, which, funnily enough, is launching in the next three to six months. It's like, you know, phased betas and stuff like that. But I did also work on, and continue to do work on Path of Exile 1, which has been live this entire time. So if anyone wants to play those, that's primarily all my narrative design work in the horror space and things that happens in that game. There have been other writers at times, but right now it's just me. Well, there you go. I know a lot of people are

going to be running to check out that game because that's, that's awesome. Well, congratulations on such a change in your life. I mean, that's, that's pretty substantial. I'm so glad it's worked out for you. Oh, it's, it's been incredible. And I have to say that when I got hired, they told me, oh, it'll just be, you know, maybe two years. And here we are six years later. Always works out that way, right? Now, you mentioned you consider yourself a horror and science fiction writer. And so often the worlds of horror and sci-fi, they're so closely intertwined. Do you kind of consider them wholly separate in terms of genres, or do you kind of, when you, when you, you're crafting a story, do you just see them kind of blending together for your story ideas? I think you can perceive like two dials. You know, there's a horror dial with various genres on that from the stuff that I don't write, which is like slasher, gore, body horror, and then all the way into like the psychological spectrum. And I think intersecting with that,

maybe like a Venn diagram is science fiction. Because some horror problems, some horror creatures can be approached at a scientific angle, smart characters making smart decisions. And those are actually always the movies that I love, what I grew up on, you know, the Twilight Zone S characters where they make intelligent decisions and their downfall is usually an emotional decision or, you know, a character flaw. So I do think they're very intertwined, but they can be dialed out of each other. Like, you can absolutely write a horror story with no science fiction or vice versa for sure. Yeah, absolutely. They can exist as separate, but I always find when they, when they blend together, they almost seem to heighten each element, each aspect of the story. So that's,

it's interesting your perspective on that. And you kind of, I think you kind of answered this question, but when you think about horror, whether it's with sci-fi or not, you say you lean away from certain sub-genres. Is there one kind of sub-genre, I guess psychological would be one, but, you know, you're not gore, slasher, monsters, but what about paranormal? Are you someone keen to write a ghost story? See, I would absolutely love to delve into any sub-genre at least once. And I think I have done paranormal in the sense of, let's say, like a haunting or things like that. But, of course, my characters quickly, the first thing they do is try to figure out the rules. How does this work?

What is this thing? You know, after a little bit of panic. So it's hard for me, I think, to stay in the paranormal zone. Because let's say I'll watch a movie about paranormal activity. And I'm just screaming the whole time, just move out of the house. Just leave. Like go stay with a friend. You know, that's what I would do.

Yeah, exactly. It seems so logical when you can separate yourself from that. And it's interesting, too, because we talked about your story, The Basement, from way back in season one. And it's been around for 13 years now. I guess I shouldn't worry too much about spoilers. But I won't go too much into detail. But that's a great story because, to me, in a way, it's almost like this haunted house story. And then there's the twist reveal at the end when you realize it's not a haunted house story.

And so I love that element the way you can bring that together where, you're portraying something that's just very creepy and what's happening, and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, there was a very logical reason for things happening the way they did. And so I understand that story, the basement, it was based on some real events that happened to you. Yeah, actually. So in my actual life, my family actually was on vacation. I did actually hear something metallic fall in the basement near me, which to this day, I have no idea what that could possibly have been. and I did hide in the dark for a very long time thinking there is absolutely definitely intruder in this house.

And so, like, that's where the start of that story came from. And the second half of the story came from another real experience where I had had a dream that someone nearby was dying. Like, I think it was my neighbor. I somehow in the dream knew it was my neighbor. And everything was red and flashing and it was very scary. And I was doing my best to try to save him, but I couldn't. And I woke up and there were ambulance lights on the wall, almost like, like a shot from a movie. I was like, oh, this isn't good. And my neighborhood actually died.

And so like those two things kind of fused to create the kernel of that idea. Tragic, tragic tale, of course. But yeah, it's interesting how a couple of different events like that just get fused into an amazing horror story. Now, the story that we've adapted for Tales from the Void, of course, the Black Square, it's the basis of the episode, the premier episode called Into the Unknown. And as always, I'm fascinated by where stories, how they germinate in your mind. How did you conjure up the story, the Black Square? I, again, started from a real basis where I was living on a suburban street, and we had

had some incidents with neighbors. Nothing, nothing like happens in that story that gets out of hand. But there was tension there. There was unhappiness there. And I thought, what if something strange happened in this neighborhood? You know, how would that escalate tensions between us, especially. with the way that we all react to things. And there was actually a specific real moment where we had had out sort of an argument with a neighbor.

And my house was a bunch of the 20-something nerdy guys. So we're like, we do not want to, you know, get involved in an altercation. And someone said, well, oh, let's call the police, you know, if anything happens. And there was a beat. And then we all just started laughing. And I realized this is where this is where the Black Squares original like colonel came from. It's like it's so streams that our society has come so far in the wrong direction that the thought of calling the police a suggestion is taken as a group joke. We're just, of course, we're not going to do that because actually that's a very dark road to go down and to bring that kind of force into the situation.

Yeah, absolutely. And it is interesting how, not to spoil certainly anything from the episode, but there is a scene where one of the citizens calls the police. And there is this sense of like, will they show up? up, if they do show up, what will, will things escalate, what will happen? And yeah, I think it's a very timely commentary on what's going on in our world, certainly our Western world, where the police can be looked at as being kind of, we need their help, but at the same time, we've seen far too many stories where the police show up and things turn out for the worst. And I think that comes down to a lot of factors, but one I like to focus on is the fact that we all have different

perspectives. And so the people involved in a paranormal situation, as these stories do, they know what's happening, they've seen it, it's real. And as the episode does illuminate for us a little bit without spoilers, if someone's from the outside of that perspective, they have no idea what you're saying. They're thinking you're crazy, they're thinking this guy is nuts, or you're just trying to get attention. There's communication gap there. And it's like if you could just get this person to come see, if you could get them there in real life. And I think, in a couple of the stories that I right, they do get cops to show up, but the funny thing is they still don't bridge the communication gap. The cops are frightened or scared or still choose to run off or even become aggressive because

they don't know what you know. They don't see what you see. And so like filtering things through their lens and filtering things to our lens, those two things don't meet. And that's, I think the biggest danger in our society right now is we are not actually saying the same things to each other. When you were coming up with this idea, like you say, these two different groups of people trying to communicate something. There's a threat. There's something going on. There's something about just a black square, just the square that hovers in the middle of the neighborhood that's fascinating and yet it's kind of nothing. And I'm curious, was that always your vision for that entity? Or was there, did you ever think it could be something monstrous or it could be something more threatening other

than just this almost non-threatening, ambiguous square that people have no idea what it's there for. There's two places this camera, which is actually really enjoyable and kind of scary at times' process of figuring this out. So I was like, all right, what should the threat be for this neighborhood? So I opened up a paint program. I was just looking at a blank white screen for honestly hours. It was racking my brain. I was asking my friends. I was like, what could this be? And I like, is it a creature? I'm like, too obvious, too threatening. This has to be something that's out there. You're scared of it, but it's not doing anything.

And that's the key. It's not doing anything because the moment it does something, that's when you're like, okay, this is a threat. Let's react in a military manner or react in like procedural manner. The whole point is to just be like, there's a problem. We don't know what it is. There's something there. And the funny thing is we were all staring at a white screen.

Like I actually had my friends gather around for this one. I think someone said like, this is kind of ominous already. Just a blank white, I don't know. square and I was like, no, I mean, no, that's not, that's not enough. Like, oh, wait, and we filled it in with black and we're like, oh, crap, like, well, that, that's ominous. Like, white versus black makes all the difference. Suddenly, it's a, it's a shrouded thing. It's a nightly thing. It's a hidden thing. Whereas a white square, you don't think there might be something in it. A white square is like, that's giving off light, that's giving off energy. That's a very different presence in your

neighborhood. And honestly, if it was, if the story was about a white square, you have people thinking, oh, this is angelic, oh, this is heavenly. Like, then you go on a whole different route of like weird, terrifying, like, devotion and stuff like that. But a black square, no one's liking that. And that was like, perfect. This has absolutely nothing connected to it. There's no myths.

There's no presuppositions or anything you could assume about it. It just is. And you know absolutely nothing. And that was the key that you know nothing about this square. And it was perfect. Yeah. And that's an excellent point. Like you said, if it was a white square, we have this.

these presuppositions of what that means. And one thing that came to my mind as you explain that is that if it was a white square, I feel like it would have a flatness or a almost like it would be a plane that you couldn't do anything with. But when you have a black square, it almost evokes a natural understanding that there's something, there's depth to it because it's black. There's no light in there. And so you see these characters who want to, like, you know, what happens if you throw something in there. What happens if you stuck your finger in there? And so that just lends itself so well to that. Now, you've had a chance to watch the episode. Your story was adapted by showrunner Francesco Los Gievo, and it was directed by Joe Lynch, of all people, a very well-known

horror film director. And so I'm curious, how did you feel watching your story come to life on screen? Oh, man. So I got my fiance, we got our pizza, we got all set up to watch. It was a fantastic watch. So I had always talked to her and probably also on these interviews about the Twilight Zone. And I felt like I was watching an episode of the Twilight Zone, like, sourced from my very own material. Because without giving any spoilers, they distilled it down to, like, the pure essence of what they were going for. And the sort of the interview with me, the way that it was cut and what they said after the episode, I was like, that's what they were going for. Those are like the statements of what they were looking to do and they did it and I absolutely love it.

Yeah, it's, you know, you mentioned the Twilight Zone and I don't think there's any spoilers here, but I know that for me, the story evoked a classic Twilight Zone episode and I know you've referenced it as well called The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street. And again, it's a classic Twilight Zone story. And it really does touch on that theme of you have a neighborhood that slowly really kind of get It's driven mad and turns against themselves. And then there's this big reveal about how there's these entities outside of who these people are. It's people who, I mean, the title is the monsters are due on Maple Street, but you have these entities that are kind of trying to do harm to the human race. And they do it so subtly and so simply by just getting them paranoid and then turning them on themselves. And it's, as you say, your story and the adaptation really, really.

focuses on that. Yeah, I love the episode for that as well, because rather than having any outside monsters, this was purely an emotional interplay, almost like a stage play, but it was, you know, it's much higher production and camera shots and values. It was just pleasantly, like, it was firing all cylinders. I love it. Yeah, I think, I think it works so well. And what's interesting is that, I mean, your story itself has this, but this adaptation, it's really about the nuance and subtlety of it. It's not, obviously, it's not a story that's full of jump, scares and gore and stuff like that. But to me, this story really allows the audience to draw their own conclusions and sort of insert their own subjective horror into it. Because again, it's like,

what is this black square? I will, as an audience member, I will assume through my own things that scare me, I will kind of put those things into this black square. And I'm curious, are you fine with a story that is, you know, for the audience, it's kind of make it what you will kind of story? Or for you, was there kind of an angle or a certain conclusion that you would hope the viewers would experience? There are stories I write with very pointed like, this is what it's about. I think this one absolutely they captured. This is your own personal struggles and your own neighborhood. Because it's the difference in perspectives I was talking about. As the writer, I don't know what your perspective is, but you do. And so the black square can represent that

because it's everything and nothing. It's just a problem. And how you react is up to you in your community now. And I had the pleasure of interviewing Joe Lynch, and we talked a lot about this story, of course. And one thing that I found interesting is that, especially watching this episode, is that to me, the Black Square,

it's kind of a, the term we use in film or storytelling, is it's a McGuffin, which is, you know, it's central to the story. And everyone's talking about, everyone's looking at this thing, but the thing itself really isn't what the story is about. There's something fascinating about that. So does it matter what the Black Square is, or is it really just all about the reaction to the square? Oh, the Black Square is absolutely a Mcuffin.

And I think 99% of the story is definitely about just the reaction. And in each individual adaptation or the episode or the story, the written story, you know, there is an ultimate point because there does kind of have to be to give you, that satisfying like this is what you're left with. But yeah, it's definitely about the people around it rather than the Mcuffin itself. It's interesting to the adaptation what Francesco adapted. The way people just sort of naturally fall into a certain hierarchy or certain groups, there are people who are in this neighborhood in this apartment complex who are clearly they just want to sort of stand in the background and sort of see what's going on. And then you get people who are

inquisitive. They kind of want to know from almost a scientific perspective, what is the square? And then, of course, you get the people who kind of, they're the leaders, and they're going to step up, and you're going to listen to me, I'm going to control this whole situation. Was that something that you wanted to draw out from the story? And I'm curious, as you said, there was kind of a real-life basis of the story. Did you see that happening where there were the tough guys and the meeker people and the people who were just curious? Oh, absolutely. And I'm so glad that they preserved that and sort of, built on that in the episode, because that is the reality and we live in that, the community

at large, they're not going to help you. You cannot depend on this cloud of people who are out there and, you know, experiencing a bi-center effect. They're not going to save you. So we do in our very own lives. See, the vast majority of people do nothing. And then there are a few heroes and there are a few supposed villains, like everyone's got their own perspective. But if you're the kind of person that asks questions and wants to like do something, you are absolutely going to generate your own resistance from people who are at their base. They're fearful. Maybe they have a good reason to be. Maybe not. But they're like, they don't want you to do anything, but you think you need to do something. And there will be a clash. And that's, that's the life. Exactly. Yeah. And it's so well portrayed.

And it's amazing how that interaction, as we've already said, can create not just conflict, but there are consequences. And those consequences can be horrifying for sure. I'm curious if in this episode, again, for anyone who has not yet seen it, we're not going to spoil anything, but there is, there's almost a subtle, I don't know if you say a reveal about what the black square actually is, or at least what effect it could have. And I'm curious, did you find that taking a little bit of license to kind of show a little bit about what the black square is, shall we say, capable of, did you, did you like that aspect? Or did you find that was an interesting turn. Normally I'm very protective of my work, but I actually really liked what they did here. And again,

no spoilers, but a few bits of things happening. And then ultimately, the episode did decide to say, like, here's what's inside the Black Square for the episode, big fan of these things, because there's a lot to think about there. In my written story, I did actually have some things happen that might have been related to the Black Square. It was important that you weren't sure. you weren't exactly sure what was happening, and they did have that as well. And so, like, there is that escalating tension, that escalating fear. Because if literally nothing ever happened, the escalation would probably taper off. But these inciting incidents are like, you can't even be sure this was related to the Black Square at all.

But the fact that it even happened in the neighborhood, obviously people are going to link it. They're going to start connecting the dots, even if those dots aren't there. And there you have your escalation to, you know, more dramatic showdowns. Well, it is, I'm thrilled that you. You liked the way it turned out, and I really think the audience will love it too, because it's, and it's interesting, too, of course, the title of the whole series, Tales from the Void, and it just makes such perfect sense to start with a story that literally features a void that evokes all of these emotions and conflicts, and so that's what we, as the audience,

are going to be plunging into for this series. And Matt, I'm just so thrilled that Francesco and John, And the whole crew that created this series tapped into your story because it's such a perfect way. No matter where it appears in the list of episodes, the fact that it's the first episode is, it's great. And I'm also thrilled that it's such a popular No Sleep podcast story. And I think our fans are going to love to see it. Come to the screen in front of them. Well, it's been a fantastic experience.

I can't wait to see the other episodes too because there was always this years of waiting on this production and be like, oh, right, is this going to be good? Like, I've been telling my parents about this for so long. And I've, all right, now I can send it to them. Yeah, it's funny. And I've spoken with a number of the authors, and there's, they all mentioned that same thing. And I'm in the same boat because Francesco reached out to me, felt it feels like four years ago or something.

And when it started, I'm sure I've already said this on this podcast, but it originally was just going to be a little YouTube series, like a really short, even shorter than the 25, 30 minute episodes that we're doing, shorter adaptations just on YouTube. And to see the way Francesco has built this into what it is, it's very impressive. And so, yeah, it's something that a lot of people, I don't think fully understand that when you see something come to the screen like this, this is not just slap dash stuff that people throw together. It takes years and a great deal of commitment. And Francesco and the team have shown that. And yeah, I'm thrilled that you can be a part of that.

Yeah, this has been something of an odyssey, even just for me. and he's the one actually making it. And I remember phone calls, like you said, three, four years of phone calls and emails and updates and just following was going. And then, like, you know, all the, let's see if the Canadian government can fund some of this and all that kind of stuff in the background.

Like, I was following that. Like, come on, let's do it. Let's get this done. That's right. I always point out that this series wouldn't be made, really wouldn't be possible with the budget that we had without all these Canadian tax grants and credits and stuff like that. So as a Canadian, I can just say to everybody,

you're welcome. I'm half Canadian, so it's like, oh, did I put in a good word for him? I don't know. There you go. Perfect. Well, Matt, thank you for joining us and all the way from New Zealand, as it were, and continued success with the career. And again, congratulations.

I hope you, all the wedding plans turn out wonderfully. Oh, thanks. Very excited. All right. Well, thanks again, Matt. And I hope everyone loves Into the Unknown. I want to thank Matt Dimeroski for joining me and bringing us face to face with the horrors found within the Black Square.

Tales from the Void, the Behind the Seans podcast, is a Creative Reason Media production in conjunction with Envoy Entertainment. Music by Alex Cuervo and Brandon Boone. Thank you for being with us. Join us next time for a deeper plunge. into the void.