The NPR Politics Podcast - 2028 fantasy draft: Republicans

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

The next presidential election is more than two years away, but it's not too early to start discussing likely contenders. We do an NFL-style draft of the candidates who may lead the Republican field in 2028. If you missed our Democratic candidate draft, you can catch that here.This episode: voting correspondent Miles Parks, political correspondent Ashley Lopez, and senior political correspondent Tamara Keith.This podcast was produced by Casey Morell and Bria Suggs, and edited by Rachel Baye.Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

All right. Today, we bring you another 2028 candidate draft. On the pod recently, we ran through some Democrats who may be running in 2028. Today, it's time for the Republicans. Let's get into it. Love the sound. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics. And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover politics. It's time now for the Republican round of our first 2028 president. presidential candidate draft. I feel like I'm trying to sound like Sunday night baseball announcers from my youth, but I feel like I should just be Miles Parks from NPR. No, I like Miles on steroids. So for the complete rules on how this is going to work, people can go,

and they should go listen to our Democratic edition of this podcast. But are you guys ready for the Republican side? Yeah. Let's do it. All right. I'm going to hand it over to fantasy draft commissioner and podcast producer Casey Morel. The first pick in the Republicans draft goes to Miles Parks. Miles, you're on the clock.

Too easy. Too easy, guys. Yeah? Gotta go with J.D. Vance. All right. Current Republican vice president. What a safe choice. I had no choice.

I mean, there's really, I don't know. I'm eager to hear if you guys would have picked someone else in the first pick. But I got to go, Chuck, got to go low risk. I mean, I will note, I got some numbers here. I brought some numbers here for this. About a third of vice presidents in modern history have gone on. to be elected president. So I'm just going with the numbers here.

He's the current vice president. Yes. Is the current president unpopular? Yes. But I still think the most likely outcome is that J.D. Vance wins this nomination. Whether he wins the presidency is another thing. But I'm going to go with the highest percentage chance of winning that nomination. Yeah.

And I will say that my reporting indicates that he has really sort of locked up the Trump digital operation. He has people working for him. No one is allowed to talk about. running for president in front of Donald Trump, because, you know, you don't do that. But he is doing all of the things. He is making all of the motions. And I just have to say also, in a year where, as you say, the sitting president is pretty unpopular. We don't know what his popularity will be in two years. It could certainly change. Lots of things can change. But it could be that there aren't that many people who want to run for president in a year when they know that the environment is going to be

bad for Republicans. So people who maybe have the most promise, the most political charisma, which I think we could safely say J.D. Vance has some political charisma challenges. Very online. You know, some of the people who maybe have the most political charisma might sit it out thinking they may have a better chance in four years. I frankly could see him looking at this as a challenge, even if he's coming out of a position where Trump was unpopular. He's somebody who, it's been talked about ad nauseum, how the things he said about President Trump in private and in public in 2016, and his ability to sort of chameleon out of that and become the vice president in a Trump presidency is amazing. And I think he is somebody who prides himself on his ability to be persuasive.

And so I could just see him looking at that as a challenge. Well, if he loves a challenge, he's got one because I do think there are a lot of unknowns about what the Republicans. base is going to look like without Trump being the standard bearer. What 2028 Republican base voters are going to want out of a candidate is a very open question. And I think we're already seeing fractures in the far right, which is where he has positioned himself, which, by the way, is a very small corner of politics. If you are just picking a spot, like pick a middle, but he can't because he's President Trump's vice president. And we're already seeing like people like Tarco Carlson try and like sort of like keep. that part of the base, like, still in line with J.D. Vance, and I don't know how effective that is, we will see. The other thing is, like, well, I've been hearing from voters. Like, he does have a lot of name recognition. And you know what kind of words I hear when people are asked about J.D. Vance? Sneaky. Caniiving. Shady. Those are not great words. People know who he is. So he has pretty good name ID. But I also hear some not so great words being used about him. Now, people who really, really

like Donald Trump, they're probably going to stick with Vance because he is the standard bearer. But I don't know. I think there is a lot of liability to being connected to Donald Trump. Look at the polling, you know, a lot of voters do not like what this administration is selling. And he is connected to it. And I think the biggest part of it, the longer this war in Iran goes. And he seemingly seems to be more connected to this war than even the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. And I don't know how he comes out of it. So I don't know. I'm like, I know he's like the frontrunner now, but there's a lot. of what-ifs, a lot of, I think, fogginess around there. Iran War is very off of his brand. Yes. At least what his political brand was coming in, which is he is not an interventionist. And now he is the chief negotiator on a thing that's falling apart. I keep thinking, though, going back to his debate performance in 2024, and he universally was seen to have kind of wiped the floor with Tim Walls in a way that I think he's probably,

I could see his camp and him thinking. just get me on a debate stage with any of these people. These issues are all true. Trump's popularity is true, all this stuff. But if I can just get in a position where I am talking to voters and talking to other candidates that I have as just as good a shot as anyone. Yeah. I've heard a line of thinking that he could shore up support among those bros that are sort of

apolitical most of the time, like that part of like the sort of male manosphere, part of the Republican coalition that helped elect Trump in 2024. Like he seems to be one of the few candidates who could possibly shore that. up. Who knows? I mean, I don't know how helpful that will be. Yeah, I just have to say, as a vice president, it is incredibly hard to run against the policies of the administration that you are part of. And it is even harder when the president is Donald Trump who takes things personally and demands ultimate loyalty. And putting separation between yourself and the person who's demanding

ultimate loyalty is really tough without being seen as disloyal. All right. Let's move on to the second pick because I think a lot of these themes are going to be apparent for our second and third picks as well, potentially. Casey, who do we got? The second pick in the Republicans' draft goes

to Ashley Lopez. Ashley, you're on the clock. Okay, I'm going to pick like kind of a wildcar person again for my first pick, but Marjorie Taylor Green. Whoa. Is it a second pick? I thought there was like an obvious one too.

I was like, I'm sure the third pick. Yeah, the obvious one is Marco Rubio. But, but, okay. Hear me out. Can make the case. Hear me out. I think Marjorie Taylor Green is a decent room reader. And she is watching what has happened on the right.

Because I'm thinking here are primary voters. I sometimes will be like, okay, who would be helpful in a general election to Democrats? But right now, who can like really get through a Republican primary? I think it's someone like Marjorie Taylor Green because she has been consistently anti-war. And she's reading the room. and she knows that being a congressperson right now is not something you want on your CV. You do not want to have the stink of DC on you right now. She has looked at the far right and said,

I don't think a lot of these people are going to be sticking with the Trump brand. And she is carving out this little part of the party for herself. And I think she won't be getting the big donor. She won't be getting the JD Vance money or maybe the Marco Rubio money if he runs. But I think she could do really well with small donors in the Republican party. I think she has picked up that, you know, the donor class and the Republican Party has not been serving the interests of their base voters. Her stance on Israel is more popular than you would think it'd be in the Republican Party. I mean, that is maybe the one place where, you know, it is an

open question where Democratic voters for sure souring on Israel, the Republican Party, the numbers aren't quite as dire, but it's moving in that direction. I don't know. I think she's a decent room reader. And this does run against my will voters pick a woman. The Republican Party doesn't have as much PTSD about that, I think, than Democratic voters do. I think my big question is, can a Trump apostate, which she absolutely at this point is. She has completely turned on him. He has turned on her. He's called her Marjorie Trader Green. Can she carve up enough of his base? Can she convince enough of his base that she is the true carrier of the MAGA flag? Or does she just, you know, like, if you're not with Trump, who are you with when you're in the Republican primary?

It's a good question, but it just depends, like, how. Depends on Trump's stock value at the time. Yeah, his stock value, you know, especially when it looks like there is nowhere else for him to go. Like, voters are going to have to look around and be like, how much does it serve me? to stick with this guy. It's a good guy. It's an open question. I think I'm a little confused also on how the Epstein file stuff plays in a Republican primary legitimately. I'm like that was anti-Trump, but that was also, I think, aligns a lot with how Republican primary voters feel and felt about that issue. And so that, I just, I just, I am so eager to see, I guess, how that issue continues playing out in elections.

Like I said, I think she understands the base in a way that I don't even think Trump does. Who's got the third pick, Casey? The third pick in the Republican's draft goes to Tamara Keith. Tam, you're on the clock. Well, I have to take Marco Rubio at this point. Got to do it. There is no other option. Secretary of State Marco Rubio ran for president in 2016.

Was my pick to potentially win in 2015? But, you know, then Trump came along. He has done an incredible job of shape-shifting himself from someone who was one of the co-authors of immigration reform to being fully in line with President Trump. He's also someone who has traditionally felt that, you know, global alliances are important and America's role in the world is a dominant one, but one where we have allies, which is in opposition to President Trump's approach to global dealings. And yet he has transformed himself into Donald Trump's Secretary of State. Trump relies on him. He's also Trump's national security advisor. He is incredibly

close to Trump, always in the room. And establishment Republicans feel more comfortable with him. And yet, he somehow has avoided having the Iran war be entirely his problem. I do not understand how. I mean, that feels like the most Houdini thing that I have ever seen is to be secretary of state at a time when the country is at war and have no one associating. with it. Yes. Well, it helps that the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and the developer-turned negotiator, Steve Whitkoff, are the ones leading the negotiations along

with J.D. Vance. And Secretary of State, Marco Rubio is just like flying under the radar. Now, I'm going to argue against myself, which is I've done a lot of reporting, trying to find any sign that Marco Rubio is running for president. And there are no signs that Marco Rubio is running for president. He is, by accounting,

of many people I've spoken to very focused on his four jobs or five jobs or seven jobs, however many jobs President Trump has given him at any moment. He is enjoying being Secretary of State, I am told. However, if it looks like, and this is multiple people told me this, if it looks like J.D. Vance is not performing well. If it looks like there isn't a strong Republican, then if Donald Trump were to say, Marco, you got to run, then he would be willing. But he's not building the infrastructure.

It would have to be that the infrastructure was passed to him. I mean, this is part of the reason I didn't choose him as my number two pick is like, I don't know how much his heart is in it right now. He has had to shape shift so much that I wonder, like, what would his position, what does his pitch about foreign policy even be on the American stage again? I know that like, I mean, politics is like being Madonna. It's like changing your outfit like. every couple of years to meet the moment. But like, you know, just so a lot of the core beliefs of

Marco Rubio have just like, where are they? I don't know. I would push back on that because I feel like if you run for president once, that doesn't just go. Like, I feel like you have a very specific mentality to even think about that at all. And I don't know that that dies ever completely for somebody who did run at one point. But, you know, he still is the Secretary of State. So I will say like probably his biggest liability is that like, what is something that across the board voters hate a lot right now is American foreign policy and who is the first? face of it literally, it is Marco Rubio. Like, how do you come back from that? That's going to be a tough pitch.

He is the national security advisor and the Secretary of State. Yeah. Yeah, that's the other thing. Like, how much, like, just energy is he going to have to run a campaign when he's also running like, what, the National Archives too? I think they finally handed that off to somebody else. But yes, he has many hats. This is the most begrudging third pick of all time.

This is like when, like, this happens in the NBA sometimes where they make a draft pick and they're like picking some guy who's playing basketball in Greece. They have no idea if he's ever even going to come back. and play in the United States. But like, just in case he does, we just want to make sure we're on the, we have his rights, basically. That's basically what's happening here. I selfishly handed Tam the hot potato because, like, that was the obvious number two pick.

But I was like, you know, I'm going to do wild card again. Why not? You know? All right. Well, that's the end of our first round. More Republicans in just a moment. And we're back. Commissioner Morel, who has the next pick.

The fourth pick in the Republicans' draft goes again to Tamara Keith. Tam, you're on the clock. All right. I am going to just, you know, rebuild the Republican field from 2016, and I am picking Texas Senator Ted Cruz. That was mine. He is very clearly running for president. If you go with the has a podcast, has opinions on many things.

We have a podcast. Tam, are we running for president? No, but Gavin Newsom also has a podcast, and he is definitely running for president. So he, I think, is someone. who looks in a mirror and sees a president. And his 2015, he was, you know, he hung on to the very end there. He won the Iowa caucuses. People forget that. Yeah. No, he did. He did. And he hung on and he was really the last one to drop out. And he is carving out a position on Israel that is in a different place from someone like J.D. Vance or Tucker Carlson. Ted Cruz is going to

going to sort of the more traditional Republican position of being pro-Israel, which also resonates with evangelical voters who are still a really important part of the Republican base. So if you're thinking anyone closely associated with the Trump administration is going to have trouble, then someone like Ted Cruz can swoop in and say, my hands are clean. I was in the Senate. and I, you know, I've got president written all over me. I mean, he was going to be my number two pick because I do think like the, like we're talking about the base of the Republican Party, the evangelical basis still. Like, that's the heart of it.

And I think there's a lot about Trump that made the evangelical base, like, cover their eyes for a long time and just like, they're probably going to go back home to someone who they like have really hung with for a long time. And talking to voters in 2015, like the reason why Ted Cruz hung in for so long in that primaries that he is really beloved among those voters. Like, there are a lot of really upset people. Look, I was in Texas at the time. So like Texas evangelicals in particular were really upset. I heard like some really horrible things said about Trump during that time. I mean, I'm sure those people voted for Trump eventually. But, you know, there was a lot of love for Ted Cruz. I think

sometimes the national picture of him is that he's like like really disliked. But the core, the base of the Republican Party, they love, they love them Ted Cruz. Yeah. It just goes back to the electability thing in terms of it, because he is very disliked by Democrats. And I don't know, I'm not sure how independents feel about him, but I will say that his reelections in Texas have been some of the closer statewide races as well, which is not a great sign for a sort of national electability argument. Well, he did flee to Cancun in the middle of an ice storm. Yeah. Can't imagine if that will come up again. I was reelected for that. I mean, yeah, like, let's be clear. But also, yes, Texas is a weird situation. The Democratic Party hasn't had wins in decades. And that makes

it really hard to, I don't know, get people to invest in a good campaign there. And, you know, I mean, money will be spent from outside the state. But you'll see, like, the machinations, like the volunteer class. They've taken a beating over the years. And, and yeah, so Ted Cruz has been well positioned to win Senate seats all the time there. But, you know, he did do very well in 2015 as I'm pointed out. Like, he was a really strong candidate. All right. Casey, who's got the next pick? The fifth pick in the Republicans draft goes to Ashley Lopez. Ashley, you are. on the clock. Well, this is weirdly putting me in the position of picking another Kentucky in for my second pick. I know this is weird and there's no indication that he's running. But if he did, I think Rand Paul has a better shot now than he's had in a while. We really are rebuilding 2016. Yeah, yeah.

Just run it back. And it's because of his anti-war positions. It's because of like his... He wasn't even on my list. Yeah. I know this is a weird one. I mean, this really would have been my, like, if we had like a wild card. He's in there.

And I also have a bias because like I kind of felt this way about him in 2015. I moved to Kentucky to cover him for a year because I thought he carved out a really interesting space in Republican politics, like the very libertarian space. And like it was right at the beginning of Republicans taking interest in criminal justice reform. And he was sort of the leader on that. He was working, I believe, with Cory Booker on that. I think he's like a really interesting guy. However, and there's a reason we don't know if he's running yet, he does not love running for a national office. He seemed to just. like be less interested in like the shaken hands all across the country part of this, like the high attention part of it, which is really important. I'm like almost talking myself out of, you know, my own pick here. But I do think like the having an anti-war position is going to be helpful for any candidates, especially since like there was a president who made big promises about America scaling back on the foreign front and focusing on domestic issues, that they're going to want someone who's been consistent on that. I'm sure a lot of votes. especially in the Republican Party feel very burned by this.

That makes sense, though. I still find myself pretty skeptical of this argument that somebody who has had many high-profile disagreements with Trump and with the Trump administration will be able to coalesce a winning electorate in a primary. I don't know. I mean, it's obviously possible. Anything's possible. I just I'm skeptical of it.

Yeah, I just think that in this era, when people have been, especially Republican-based voters, have been willing to accept such a heavy hand of government and such a heavy hand of the executive. Libertarians are like beside themselves with all of the actions that have been taken by the Trump administration. I don't know if libertarianism is really on the rise at the moment or if libertarianism is like kind of on the outs. This is why I think these conversations are hard to have so far out from elections because like you could either see the American electorate as the frog getting slowly boiled. or you could look at it like a pendulum. Yeah. Like they could get just really tired of that.

Like they could get really tired of like police state stuff. And even including in the Republican Party, like they could go revert back to something that, you know, for a long time was a core part of the base. So I don't know. I'm of the opinion that I think like people are really upset about the war in Iran. And I do think they're going to want someone who's been consistent on this front, possibly. Who knows? I'm intrigued. Big who knows.

Casey, who's got the next pick? The sixth and final pick in the Republicans draft goes to Miles Parks. Miles, you're on the clock. All right. I got two options here, guys. Which way are we going? I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm going to still go Ron DeSantis.

I think I'm still there. I mean, I am a native Florida. My Florida bias. do be showing sometimes, but I'm still going to do it. I think, and here's my basis for it. When I think about what worked for Trump in 2024, the kind of anti-woke policy argument, that whole brand of thinking, Desantis like owned that as a governor for the last few years. And I still think that is something that Republican primary voters have not soured on in the way that they have on some of these other issues, foreign policy issues, other things that kind of are

associated with Trump. And so I almost feel like DeSantis has this ability to potentially pick out the things from Trumpism that are still popular with Republicans while conveniently being able to say, I ran against him in 2024. I didn't agree with him in all these different ways in a way that like I could see him carving out some level of distance on some things, but still being able to lean into also, I think COVID policies are a thing that we don't about as much, but that I still think subconsciously for a lot of voters, it's why people are still angry at the Democratic Party in a lot of ways. It's still connected in some way to 2020 and post-2020. And I think DeSantis has done a lot of things to anger people in Florida on social issues,

but I do think he's still fairly popular on how he handled the pandemic, though that is controversial. To be very clear, I'm talking about politically. And so I think for all of those reasons, I just can see a version where he's able to navigate his way through a Republican primary. I don't know. Like, Ron DeSantis was dinged pretty badly for running against Trump. And I don't see as much enthusiasm for him. Like, there was a weird amount of enthusiasm for Ron DeSantis right before the 2024 election. There was like, you know, during right before the primary. His name was everywhere. Like, especially at like C-PAC and stuff. And, you know, I know it's early, but like, I don't know that the base has, like, forgiven him for that. I remember covering a Trump rally in High Leia, Florida. And I talked to voters,

like people who had voted for DeSantis and had voted for Trump. And they were so disgusted with Ronda Stas. They were like, I will never vote for that man again. I mean, I don't know how like how much that sticks. But yeah, people were really upset about him doing that. Yeah. And he also came out of it looking kind of weak and small. And his national profile has not been what it was since then I don't think. Like, I don't think he has been talked about as much. Not to completely undermine your case here, Miles. I mean, it's the sixth pick of the draft.

Obviously, I'm not like, yeah. This is, I mean, I think this actually puts a finer point on this idea that, like, just to be very clear, currently, it is basically a two-person race. I feel like there's tears, you know, and I think there's that two-person tier. And then it's like a bunch of other names. And I think, like, I do want to get to the Dark Horse round because I thought that was really fun last time here. And I think maybe you can make an argument, DeSantis, would be better as a dark horse candidate than as the sixth pick. But I just still think a two-term governor from a state that has greatly increased in population and has, I don't know, there's a lot of things that I could see. Again, two years, a long, long time.

I mean, arguably everyone we talked about except Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance is a dark horse here. Right. All right. Well, I guess that's a good transition to the dark horse round. I gave Tam the first pick of the Dark Horse Democratic candidate round, so I want to be equitable here. Ashley Lopez, you get the first pick of our Dark Horse Republican round. I'm going to say Tucker Carlson. Oh, that feels very predictable. Yeah, I know.

There's a reason. It has to be. It has to be. I mean, that was when I said I was torn between two for my sixth pick, it was DeSantis and Farrell. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Green, the reason I said her is because, like, I wanted to save Tucker Carlson for, for a Dark Horse pick. I mean, they're kind of of the same ilk. They are amazing room readers. They understand the online world of this, these groups of voters very well. And I don't think he's been taking a ding in like viewership since his, you know, his decoupling. His decoupling from Trump. His conscious decoupling. His conscious uncoupling. Yes, that's it. So I don't know. I think, and he's like very smart. And I mean, you know, he's. A good communicator that Tucker. A good communicator. What he's communicating is, you know, a whole other bag of grass.

But he seems to have, he seems to like Marjorie Taylor Green, like understand the base of the party in a way I think like even Donald Trump does it. What I like about it is he, you know, this last couple months he's been talking about kind of wanting to, yeah, move away from the broader Republican Party, frankly. And he's, you know, floated this idea, I think, in interviews of like starting a third party or trying to figure out some who doesn't want to start a third party. Everyone has voted that at some point, right? But I do think that to your point about him knowing kind of being able to read the room of how much of the electorate right now feels disillusioned with the two major parties. And if you can as a candidate tap into that disillusionment, even if at the end of the day you do end up running under the brand of one of the parties, but you can sort of establish those credentials as somebody who empathizes with voters disillusionment there. I think that can be powerful. I think he helps feed the disillusionment too.

Fair. Yeah. He would definitely, he was on my list. But yeah, he is certainly someone who is able to channel the angst that voters are feeling about a lot of things. I think there are a lot of questions about him, though, like where his money is coming from. And, you know, like he went on a trip to Russia and was absolutely charmed by their grocery store. Like, eh, he sometimes comes across as extremely gullible. and I don't know if that is something that you can sell if you're running for president.

Yeah, and I don't know how much he actually, like, I kind of seriously doubt that Tucker Carlson wants to run for president. I do think he maybe is shoring up a space in the base for someone like J.D. Vance. Like, I think he's doing a lot of reputation laundering in the front end just in case J.D. Vance, you know, runs for president, which that one does seem like is going to happen. But yeah, I don't know. I think Tucker Carlson is like very interesting to watch. All right, Tam. You're up with a second pick of the wild card portion of this draft. I'm just going to preface this by saying there are many arguments,

including constitutional arguments for why this is not. Oh, she's doing it. She's doing it. But my pick is Donald J. Trump because he has toyed with the idea of running for an unconstitutional third term. many times. He is so obsessed with trying to rewrite history on the 2020 election and saying it was stolen from him. All of these actions he's taking to try to change voting rules. Is he doing that for somebody other than himself? And realizing that, you know, his approval rating is not in a good place. And it could be that the American people don't really want another term of Donald Trump.

on our dark horse list, I think he has to be there. Yeah, I feel like I want to be able to poo this completely for constitutional reasons. I mean, the merch is out there already. Yeah. Indeed it is. And he has handed those 2028 hats to world leaders and members of Congress alike. I mean, we are in a Democrat. I feel like I'm a broken record, but we are in a Democratic backslide.

Like, he has been testing the bounds of like what the structures of our democracy for over a decade now. All right, Miles, what's your dark horse? Tam, you brought the heat with both your wild card picks. And I feel like, yeah, now I'm in the position where, like, mine's going to sound really crazy just in... How tame it is. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I'm going full tame. And so I'm just going to give you Brian Kemp.

Oh, no. Very popular governor from a purple state. And somebody who, again, I think I actually am going back to this similar to my DeSantis argument, which is just that, like, somebody's going to have to do some gymnastics on Trump to win this primary. And I think actually Brian Kemp has done a pretty interesting job of that in terms of not fully getting Trump mad at him despite being attached to the most high profile disagreement of his presidency of the last six years of whether he won Georgia. And Brian Kemp says he did not win Georgia. And yet he has still kind of maintained a pretty good relationship with Trump seemingly. And so I think that that leads me to believe that.

there is a path. And so I don't know. What do you guys think? I do not know that Georgia governor, Brian Kemp, actually does have a good relationship with Trump. I mean, I guess there's worse relationships with Trump. I would say it seems like you think he's like in the bottom? My understanding was that my sense was that it was not the bottom tier of Trump relationships. But maybe I'm wrong. It's not up there in in Trump territory because President Trump has. endorsed candidates who are not the candidates that Brian Kemp has endorsed. There's been sort of a shadow rivalry going on. And I think Trump is still mad about 2020 and anyone that is even remotely associated with 2020, as Brian Kemp is, is not on his friend list. I guess depends on

what Republican voters want though, because they do like him in Georgia. Like as you mentioned, he hasn't had to pay a price with voters seemingly, at least not a Georgia voters, which is interesting. All right. Well, we can leave it there for today. We will have a lot more of these drafts as we keep getting closer to 2028. Again, what a pleasure, guys. So fun. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover politics.

And I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover politics. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.