The NPR Politics Podcast - After 20 Years, Nancy Pelosi Will Step Down As Top House Democrat

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Pelosi, 82, is honoring a pledge she made in 2018 to pass the baton after another two terms at the party's helm. She says she will remain in Congress to help guide the party's transition to new leadership.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh, and political correspondent Susan Davis.This episode was produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. It was edited by Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Fact-checking by Katherine Swartz.Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's Brant Johnson, and today is my first day at my internship at the United States Capitol. This podcast was recorded at 1.13 p.m. Eastern Time on Thursday, November 17th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I still won't be over how breathtaking the United States Capitol building is. Okay, here's the show. She sure is pretty. It is a pretty beautiful space. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. And I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress.

And today on the show, we've got news that Nancy Pelosi is stepping down as the top House Democrat after leading her party for two decades. She announced this all in a speech just a bit ago on the House floor. My friends, no matter what title you all, my colleagues, have bestowed upon me, Speaker, Leader, Whip, there is no greater official honor for me than to stand on this floor and to speak for the people of San Francisco. This I will continue to do as a member of the House, speaking for the people of San Francisco, serving the great state of California, and defending our Constitution. And with great confidence in our caucus, I will not

seek re-election to Democratic leadership in the next Congress. For me, the hours come for a new generation to lead the Democratic caucus that I so deeply respect. And I'm grateful that so many are ready and willing to shoulder this awesome responsibility. Deidre, I want to start with you because you were there listening to all of this. Can you just lay out for us what the atmosphere was like? So I was in the reporter's gallery, which is above the floor, and you can sort of see the whole House floor. You can see where Pelosi was speaking, and you can see how members are reacting. It was very orchestrated. Pelosi had, you know, the whole House Democratic side of the floor was completely packed, standing room only on that side of the floor.

On the Republican side of the chamber, it was largely empty. There were some incoming Republican freshmen who were in town for orientation who sat in the front rows. There were a few House Republicans. The number two House Republican, Steve Scalise, did come in sort of at the beginning of the speech, but it was very upbeat. People were cheering. Chuck Schumer, the Senate Majority Leader, walked over. He used to be a House Democrat before he was elected to the Senate and is close to Speaker Pelosi. He sat with the current Democratic leadership lineup. There was a lot of applause. There was a lot of, you know, standing O's for Pelosi and some respectful applause from the Republicans who were there on the floor. There were some tears from Pelosi staffers. And when Pelosi finished her speech, she was completely mobbed. Democrats lined up all up and down the aisles to hug her. There was also some symbolism in how she presented herself. She, I think, made a point to wear a white suit often associated with the suffrage movement that provided the women the right to vote. And she wore her mace pin. The mace is sort of the symbol of the House of Representatives. She tends to wear it on big occasions. She wore it when they announced they were moving forward with the impeachment of former President Trump. She tends to wear it at the State of the Union. So she clearly put a lot of thought into both how she wanted to present

herself and what she wanted to say. You know, Sue, I'm curious what you made of the decision itself, but also how Pelosi articulated why she was making this decision. Well, I think we should note that this isn't really a surprise. No one knew what Pelosi was going to do, but it has been the point of speculation for quite some time. And after Democrats re-won the majority in 2018, Pelosi cut a deal with a number of lawmakers, you know, at the time. And there has been some frustration that she's been at the top of the party for so long. She cut a deal that said she would only serve a speaker for four more years.

And the time was up. Now, because Democrats had done much better in the election than many had anticipated, and because I think there has been considerable sympathy towards her following the attack against her husband, Paul Pelosi, in their San Francisco home, there was this sense of like, oh, maybe she'll decide to stay after all. But I don't think ultimately, today's news is a surprise to anyone who knows Pelosi and knows kind of the direction of the House, especially because, and I'm sure we'll get into it, there's a lot of folks in the wings, ready, willing, and able to serve. And even as we say this, some people have already made their

announcements that they want to run. You know, she's been in this job for so long. She was the first woman to become Speaker of the House. And, you know, I think a lot of folks may not know how she came to this position. And I'm curious to hear you both give us some sense of how she came to find herself in politics. I do think that there is something sort of remarkable in her story in that she didn't even enter public life until she was in her late 40s. She was a stay-at-home mom. She had five kids. She raised them.

And then she started getting involved in politics, which is not to say that she was a political novice. She grew up in a political family. You know, people in the course of her career, I think, often tried to dismiss or caricaturize Pelosi as this San Francisco liberal. But that mischaracterizes how she grew up in politics. She grew up the daughter of a mayor of Baltimore who also served in Congress. And she was, you know, a kid that had a front row seat at sort of the brass knuckles, the tactical politics that it took to get things done.

She has always had a political savvy, even if she came very late in life, you know, relatively speaking, to politics. And I think in terms of women in politics, she's a historical figure. You know, she's the first and only woman ever to serve as speaker. And while I think she has sort of been the force of much political venom, she's also been an incredibly effective legislator and lawmaker. And I do think she, in the scope of the House, and I think Deirdre probably has some thoughts on this too, I think it's very fair, regardless of how one may feel about Nancy Pelosi, to say that she is a historical figure and will be remembered that way? Without a doubt. I mean, I think that she has been able to achieve a lot of things legislatively that most speakers have failed to do. And she was the architect who helped then President Obama pass his landmark health care bill. She obviously muscled through President Biden's agenda with a razor thin

majority, pretty much the same kind of razor thin majority that Republicans are coming in with. But she actually was able to pass things. And that is something that is really hard to do. I mean, the other thing that reminded me, Sue, about her Baltimore roots is, you know, she talked about the first time she ever came to the Capitol when her father was sworn in as a member of Congress. Father was also the mayor of Baltimore. And she tells these stories about how she watched her father write down notes in a notebook about people that he worked with in Baltimore who helped him or needed something or, you know, so it's sort of like she had this running list and she kept track of things. She was remarkably savvy as a political operator. she leaves, there's 90, and that the Democratic caucus is now a majority women and people of color

caucus, right? And the demographic change that has happened in Congress and how much more representational it has become, has really only happened in the last 20 to 30 years, right? It's been a really abrupt shift. And prior to that, Congress was overwhelmingly dominated by white men in both parties. So she's also overseen sort of a physical or a demographic transformation of Congress that I think will never go back to the old ways. All right. We are going to talk a little bit more about Nancy Pelosi. But first, a quick break. And we're back. Nancy Pelosi is somebody you all have described as being very

politically savvy, an extremely effective legislator. And I'm left wondering, well, what does this mean now for the Democratic Party that is going to be in the minority here in the House? What does it mean in terms of who may actually lead Democrats moving forward? So I ran into Pelosi when she was leaving the floor after her speech, and she was asked who she's going to support for leader, and she said it's up to the caucus. But talking to Democrats over the last several weeks, the current caucus chairman, Hakeem Jeffries from New York,

is expected to run for Democratic leader and is expected to win pretty handily. The number two House Democrat, Steny Hoyer, announced he was going to remain in Congress, but he was not going to run for leader and he would remain as a member helping the next generation. In addition to Jeffries, we expect the other two current leaders below him in the Democratic leadership lineup, Catherine Clark from Massachusetts and Pete Aguilar from California, to run for the next sort of two ranking Democratic posts. Most of the members I talk to feel like they have the race sewn up. But as we've learned in the past, leadership races are never always what you expect them to be. So they will hold their leadership election after Thanksgiving. And we'll see if Pelosi actually weighs be an interesting tension and dynamic to watch where there's this next generation of, you know, lawmakers out there ready to rise, but it's like getting your boss's job, but your boss is still sitting in your office. Like, how Pelosi takes a back seat, or doesn't is going to be one of those sort of paths that the

Democratic Caucus is going to have to figure out, especially for Jeffries, if he is the leader, as most people presume he will be, like, how do you start to exert your influence and your power if Pelosi is still standing right there? Kevin McCarthy, who was nominated to be the speaker earlier this week. But some of the younger Democratic leaders really don't have relationships at all with House Republican leaders. And, you know, in a narrowly divided House, when you have to fund the government and avoid a shutdown, there has to be some communication. And I sort of wonder how they're going to navigate that. So I want to ask you both a question about what it's been like to cover Nancy Pelosi, because my understanding is she has been the top Democrat in the House the entire time you all have been covering Congress. And you all have collectively a whole bunch of years of congressional reporting experience.

And it's just it's sort of wild to me. She has been this figure throughout the entire time you all have been there. So is there something that kind of stands out to you that you think gives us insight into who she is as a person? You know, I've never covered Congress without Pelosi being the top Democrat. She's such a central figure in my political reporting experience, especially on Capitol Hill. One of the things I've always said about Pelosi is I think a lot of times she was publicly underestimated. Because and I think this is fair to say, Deirdre, tell me if you disagree,

but like she's, she's never been the most articulate public speaker. Like she's not someone I think that has been seen as a great communicator. She could flub a lot of press conferences, she could dogtail like she didn't. And I think especially as a woman coming up in politics, sometimes people thought she was stupid or she wasn't as bright. But as you covered her and as you got to know her and you understood how she worked the inside game, I mean, she really was just masterful at understanding where the vote was. And that is like the whole ballgame on the Hill. I would say on the Senate side, Mitch McConnell's very good at this as well. Like she would know how members were going to vote before they knew how they were going to vote and she could get

them to yes. I mean, she's probably won more tougher, tighter votes than any congressional leader in history. And I also think that she, you know, she really made being a woman very front and center in her own story. And anecdotally, it always sticks out to me because it made me laugh. And Pelosi just wasn't known for being very funny. But she would tell this story because there's been so many fights over abortion rights over the years that at one point she said, you know, these Republicans get up and the Catholic Church had criticized her. And it said, oh, you think you know more about having babies than the pope? And she was like, yeah, I think I do. Like, I do know more than the Pope when it comes to having babies. And it was rare to see her be sort of like, I don't know, quippy and savvy. If anything, she was always very deferential, very polite,

very ladylike in public, and certainly carried herself as someone who was raised to be sort of a good Italian Catholic schoolgirl. But that was not who she was, you know, she was a very tactical, sharp elbowed, smart politician. Yeah, I mean, you could definitely see the sharp elbows of the Baltimore political machine in Pelosi at times when, you know, our job is to, you know, walk around this building and talk to members and ask them questions. Pelosi, you know, decided when she was going to answer questions and decided when she wasn't. But when she said something, it was very deliberate. And it was very clearly sending a message about, you know, either her own members not getting on board with something when she was annoyed or taking a shot at, you know, her opposition. When Sue talked about Pelosi talking

about her gender all the time, she also, in terms of the way she dealt with the press, I feel like that was a feature as well. She got to know the regular reporters in the building and she would call a lot of times in press conferences and say, how about the women? Let's ask the questions from the women. And sometimes they weren't sitting in the front row of the press conference. And I think Pelosi was like, she would go out of her way to call on a lot of the female reporters. Yeah. All right. Well, that is a wrap for today's show. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress.

And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.