The NPR Politics Podcast - Another Half-Trillion: Senate Reaches Deal On Rescue Package

Episode Date: April 21, 2020

The $484 billion bill is expected to approved by the Senate Tuesday afternoon. The largest component of the legislation, according to a summary obtained by NPR, is more than $320 billion for the Paycheck Protection Program, a popular assistance program created last month in an earlier relief package knows as the CARES Act. The package also includes $75 billion for hospitals and $25 billion for testing.This episode: White House correspondent Scott Detrow, congressional reporter Claudia Grisales, and chief economics correspondent Scott Horsley.Email the show at [e-mail] Join the Facebook group at n.pr/politicsgroup Subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org/politicsnewsletter Find and support your local public radio station at donate.npr.orgLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Noel, sheltering in place in Oakland, California. It is day 30 of my 30-day push-up challenge, where I will be doing 50 push-ups. This podcast was recorded at... That's a good use of time at home. It's 2.05 Eastern on Tuesday, April 21st. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but one thing will not change. I will have done 50 push-ups. Enjoy the show. There you go.

One more step towards those Stanley Tucci biceps. Wow. Hey there. Is this the NPR Politics Podcast? I'm Scott Detrow. I cover the White House. I'm Claudia Grisales, and I cover Congress. And I'm Scott Horsley.

I cover the economy. I think we'll circle back to this on Friday, but did anyone else see the video I'm referencing? Yeah. Yeah. Wait, which video? Stay tuned for Can't Let It Go. That's all I'll say right now. Oh, nice.

Can't wait. A lot to talk about today. Leaders on Capitol Hill have reached a deal on another recovery bill. Claudia, it feels like we were just talking about this unprecedented $2 trillion bill, the largest in history. That was less than a month ago. So why is this measure needed and what is this measure focusing on? Yes, it's a signal of how fast they're burning through some of this money that's already been approved. In particular,

the small business program has been overwhelmingly popular. That was part of that $2 trillion bill that was passed last month. It's run out of money. And now lawmakers are looking at a new measure to supplement this massive bill and add more money for small businesses. Overall, it could be nearing half a trillion dollars is what they're looking at. And it will address some of these loans, trying to get them to the actual small businesses. Lawmakers have raised concerns that bigger businesses have been hoarding the money. So they want to make sure smaller businesses get another shot at this. And they're also going to look at addressing issues like hospital funding and testing funding, among other concerns. And Scott, sticking to the small business focus for a moment, can you remind us what this lending program is supposed to be

doing and how it's working? Sure. It's called the Paycheck Protection Program, and it's a program that's designed to protect workers' paychecks. And in a nutshell, it was an incentive for small businesses to keep workers on the payroll with these low-interest loans. And if a small business did that, if the business person kept their employees on the payroll, the loan would be forgiven. So it was basically a way for the federal government to subsidize payrolls for people who might have their businesses closed right now during the pandemic. As Claudia hinted, though, there were some complaints. This was intended for businesses with 500 or fewer employees, but some of the money went to big companies because there was a carve-out.

If you were, say, a giant national restaurant chain, but you had fewer than 500 employees at each individual restaurant, you could apply. There were also complaints that some of the big banks that were administering these loans gave preferential treatment to some of their bigger, more established customers, and folks who didn't have a relationship with a bank or a close lending relationship with a bank were kind of put to the back of the line. So one of the holdups in negotiating this refill for the program is Democrats have been insisting that some portion of the new money that's going in be set aside for folks in rural

areas or minority business people or people who maybe don't have a relationship with a bank, and to try to ensure that more of the money really goes to the mom and pop businesses that it was sort of envisioned for. Yeah. But aside from that loan program, Claudia, Democrats were pushing for other things, particularly more funding for state and local governments, the governments that have been bearing a lot of the brunt of this response and are also seeing their budgets totally blown up by the huge drop in revenue. Is there anything in this deal for state and local government? So far, that doesn't look like the plan at this point. Even as late as last night, Democrats were pitching to White House officials, listen, can we get a little money

in there? Even for the District of Columbia, for example, that wasn't treated as a state, didn't get the same funding, lost a lot of money there. And still there hasn't been anything responsive for Republicans who say they want to include that in this current plan. And Democrats are conceding that this may not be the window. They may have to wait. So everyone is conceding there's going to be another major spending bill after this one. Yeah, they're conceding there is a phase four. And you could also even say they're conceding there is a phase four. And you could

also even say they're already negotiating it. President Trump was tweeting about it again, saying, listen, let's just take care of this small business issue and these other smaller issues. And then we'll get to state and local governments in this next major bill that we'll consider for Congress. That's certainly something to keep an eye on. Because if state and local governments budgets don't get some help from the federal government, the hit that they've taken from a loss of sales tax revenue and other revenues could lead to sort of another second wave of local government layoffs. We saw that during the Great Recession where the sort of second wave was teachers and educators and others who worked in local government. When

they caught up to the government budgets, they couldn't pay their workers, and we saw a whole nother round of layoffs. So that's something that's on the horizon here unless the federal government comes to the rescue. And I think politically it's not quite the same issue, but it's interesting that the decision's being made to wait on this funding, because at the same time, you have President Trump of the White House increasingly putting the onus on state government, saying, you're the ones that need to make the decisions about when to reopen. You're the ones who should be taking the lead on testing. And more and more, you're seeing this is the state government issue from the White House. One other big topic on that note is testing. There had been a lot of conversation and push for more money for testing in this bill. What's in the final product?

So for testing, they're looking at $25 billion to launch this national testing program. One of the sticking points they've been haggling over the last few days is who's going to administer it. So it just goes to that issue, are the states going to handle this as the president has encouraged them to handle much of this issue? Or will the federal government take that piece over? But that all said, that was a key initiative for Democrats in this supplemental bill that they hope to pass this week, which is to address this testing, launch a national testing program, and address these shortages that we keep hearing about through the various states.

And that would be yet another brand new program having to come online in a very short timeline, because as we've been talking about, testing is the key probably to getting the economy back open. Exactly. And Claudia, I think one other element of this deal that we want to point to is money for hospitals, because they have also taken a hit. Even as some hospitals are overrun with coronavirus patients, hospitals around the country have called off elective surgeries, more routine procedures that are usually their bread and butter. And for some hospitals, that's been a real financial hit. Right. Yes. Schumer said this was one of the key initiatives they added. Initially, this was just going to be about small businesses.

That's what the administration asked for. But they said hospitals need to be addressed. So far, it looks like that could be another $75 billion they could approve there. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk more about this bill and what it means long term now that the federal government is just passing trillion dollar after trillion dollar spending bill. This message comes from NPR sponsor StoryPoint

Wines, maker of StoryPoint, a bold new wine brand with a rich layered taste profile. Enjoy StoryPoint wine while you connect with those you love, either at home or at a virtual happy hour. Raise a glass and share a story. StoryPoint believes that the stories we share can bring joy even in trying times. Visit storypointvineyards.com slash politics to purchase. Shipping is included in your online order, so consider shipping a bottle to a friend, too. Hey, it's Guy Raz from NPR's How I Built This, and each week on the show during this unprecedented crisis, I'll be asking some of the top founders and builders how they're

dealing with the economic impact of the coronavirus and hear about some of the ways they're pivoting to fight it. Subscribe or listen now to How I Built This. And we're back. And our colleague Kelsey Snell said something on up first this morning that really jumped out to me and i just want to talk about it for a moment we are viewing this bill here as the latest in an ongoing series of responses it's almost like a stopgap measure but it is half the cost of that historic 2009 stimulus package this is just massive spending and it seems to be happening on a routine basis at this point. It really is, and that just underscores what a deep hole the economy is feeling here,

and that lawmakers and policymakers feel the need to try to fill. I mean, think about this. The economy was chugging along. It's like you had the lights on, the stereo was blaring, and then a squirrel chewed through a transformer, and all of a sudden everything went out. That's what's happened to the economy right now. That's why we've got, you know, 22 million people that have been filing for unemployment over the last month. You've got numerous small businesses that are just struggling to hang on. And so the taps have been opened by both Congress and the Federal Reserve to try to keep people afloat as we try to wrestle with this pandemic. And it obviously makes sense to focus on this current crisis with millions and millions of people out of work and so much uncertainty. But do we have any sense yet what

the long-term repercussions could be of all this deficit spending? You know, it's possible there will be some long-term consequences, although right now there seems to be an endless appetite for government debt. And actually, in the immediate instance, the Federal Reserve has stepped in and is buying this government debt. So they are effectively printing money to cover these expenses. Over the long haul, might there be some fallout in higher interest rates or higher inflation? Maybe. But I think the sense is, you know, you're trying to put out a forest fire right now. You can't turn off the hoses because it's just too important to solve the immediate crisis, and we'll deal with the long-term consequences when we have to.

I like the squirrel visual better than the hoses there, Scott. Better than the forest fire. I don't know. Thank you. I love squirrel. I love squirrel. I love squirrel. So, Claudia, we had mentioned before the assumption from all sides that there is going to be another bill. There's going to be a lot of pressure for money for state and local government. What else is going to be on the table for the next

round of this? Well, that wish list keeps growing. For example, President Trump tweeted today, payroll tax cut. He's really been stuck on that. He wants to see that happen. Infrastructure week is here again. So we keep hearing about that over the last few years. Trump also pointed to tax incentives for certain businesses could be a possibility. And Democrats have been harping on infrastructure as well. They have been thinking about that as well. And talking about things like technology, we've been seeing how much we've been using technologies, we've all been quarantined at home. And so that's a key concern, upping broadband in rural areas. So there's quite a few issues in there, of course, the small business loan. So it's a very, very long list that they're looking at for

this bill. And Scott, when you're out talking to people in business world, what are the top... I'm not out talking to anybody. I'm hunkered down at home. That's true. I didn't mean to imply you weren't being safe. When you're out virtually, using this device that allows you to talk to other people who have the same device, what are you hearing are the top needs that businesses need from Congress as this keeps going? Oh, they need a lot of help. I mean, their costs are mounting, whether they have kept employees on the payroll and are trying to pay their employees, whether they've furloughed employees and the unemployment bills are picking that up.

There's just an enormous need to try to backfill an economy that has more or less in many sections ground to a halt. All right, that's it for today. Before we go, I just want to say if you are not part of our Facebook group, you are missing out. For the past couple of weeks, we've been recording our favorite segment of the week, Can't Let It Go, on video. I know you're thinking, what's this, your podcast people? You cannot appear on video, but we've been doing it anyway. It's been nuts. We've had to comb our hair, but it's also been fun. If you want to see what we actually look like in front of a camera, if you want to break that veil of mystery, you can head to n.pr slash politics group to request to join. It's up to you, but I think it's a fun group. I'm Scott Detrow. I cover

the White House. I'm Claudia Grisales. I cover Congress. And I'm Scott Horsley. I cover the economy. Thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.