The NPR Politics Podcast - Biden Fights Back

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

President Biden is fed up. He shared choice words with reporters after being criticized for his age and mental acuity. Earlier in the day the special counsel who found Biden willfully retained but his actions did not warrant criminal charges described the president as a ''well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." This episode: national political correspondent Sarah McCammon, senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, senior editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, political correspondent Ashley Lopez, and White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez.This podcast was produced by Jeongyoon Han, Casey Morell & Kelli Wessinger. Our editor is Erica Morrison. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Lori. I'm at Houston Airport getting ready for my second leg home after celebrating my parents' 75th wedding anniversary and my father's 100th birthday. This podcast was recorded at 12.43 p.m. Eastern Time on Friday, February 9th, 2024. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but my mother and father will still fall asleep holding hands, even after 75 years. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. That is the sweetest thing I've ever heard.

That's amazing. Well, congratulations on longevity in all ways. Perfect tee-up for Valentine's Day next week. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. So Thursday was a good news, bad news, but mostly bad news day for President Joe Biden. A special counsel investigating his handling of classified documents decided not to bring

any charges, so there's the good news for him. But the headlines coming from that report created some fresh problems for Biden. So first, I'm going to start with you, Tam. Just remind us, what was the purpose of the special counsel investigation and what did it find? The special counsel, Robert Herr, was appointed to investigate President Biden's handling of classified documents. Biden's team found some documents at an office he used to use in the time after he was vice president. And then after the investigation was going, President Biden's lawyers found more documents in his home in Wilmington. And then the FBI searched his homes and found yet a few more documents. So President Biden

fully cooperated with this investigation, let the FBI in, sat down for an interview, all of those things. Ultimately, it was determined by Robert Herr that Biden did willfully retain documents, but that he wouldn't be able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt in court to a jury. And so he determined that he would not charge Biden, even if there weren't a Department of Justice prohibition on charging a sitting president with a crime. So the report said Biden had done nothing that would rise to the level of bringing charges, but it also highlighted some perennial questions about his age and his memory. What happened to him and how did he respond?

It included a line describing him as a, quote, sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory. There was another part of it where President Biden was described as having a hard time recalling certain events or dates, including the year that his son, Beau Biden, died. That year was 2015. President Biden held a press conference last night after this report came out, and he was furious about the idea that he wouldn't know when his son died. I know there's some attention paid to some language in the report about my recollection of events. There's even reference that I don't remember when my son died. How in the hell dare he raise that? Frankly, when I was asked the question,

I thought to myself, it wasn't any of their damn business. That was a fiery pushback from President Biden. He was asked repeatedly about his memory. He said it was fine. He really came out there to say, hey, focus on the fact that I wasn't charged with anything. Don't focus on this sentence about my age. Of course, Republicans and frankly, even people who support the president really did key in on the parts of the report that focus on

his memory. And even at that press conference where President Biden was out there saying, I don't have a problem. He did this thing that he often does where he, in response to a question about the Israeli-Hamas conflict in Gaza, Biden said this. As you know, initially, the president of Mexico, Sisi, did not want to open up the gate to allow humanitarian material to get in. I talked to him. I convinced him to open the gate. And of course, El-Sisi is the president of Egypt and not Mexico. And as Tam alluded to, Domenico, I mean, this concern about Biden's age and mental faculties isn't new. How does this fit into that larger narrative, especially what's been coming from Republicans? Oh, look, I mean, this was a clumsy response from the White House. Clearly, Joe Biden has never been a great messenger. And as he's gotten older, obviously, everyone loses a bit of a step. His voice has gotten weaker. His gait is stiffer.

And polls have shown that there is serious concern about Biden's age. An NBC poll be president in a second term. And yes, Donald Trump is very close in age. He's 77 years old. He's not much younger. But those concerns about his age just are not the same. I mean, when they asked about this, 48 percent of the country said that they had some level of concern about Donald Trump's age himself. And I was talking to Frank Luntz, who is a Republican, well, formerly Republican pollster who's been doing focus groups with voters, including with Biden 2020 voters who say they can't vote for him in 2024. And he said that basically what this report did is brought in an outside validator who comes in and basically confirms what a lot of voters are already thinking. And he thinks this is just absolutely devastating.

I'm not 100% sure that this is some kind of turning point in this campaign. I mean, you know, everybody has known that Joe Biden is old and this is something that he's going to be contending with and dealing with. Again, the issue, the framing for this election that I still think about is what weighs out more? Do people think that Joe Biden is too old to do the job or do they dislike Donald Trump that much? And those two factors are big, big factors in this election. Former President Trump has had his own set of glitches. He's had some he had one very notable mix up recently where he seemed to confuse Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi.

Do you know they destroyed all of the information, all of the evidence, everything? Deleted and destroyed all of it. All of it because of lots of things. Like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. For whatever reason, former President Trump's many glitches, and there have been a lot of them, are not getting the same kind of attention that they are from President Biden. Maybe that's because President Biden has been relatively more disciplined. He does not say as many words in public as former President Trump does. Former President Trump says a lot of words and a lot of people aren't really paying attention to them in the same way. this perception that Domenico has talked about, that somehow age and memory are more of an issue for President Biden than they are for President Trump among the public, despite the fact that Trump is not the person he was four or eight years ago either.

You know, and part of the problem here is the fact that anytime this kind of thing happens, a president would normally or a politician would normally be able to come out and kind of attack the messenger here to be able to say that her is biased, that he's a Republican and to really take down his character and dismiss this to be able to bring the base back together to support Biden, which we saw Bill Clinton do, for example, when it came to the Star Report. You really didn't see that in a very crisp way from President Biden yesterday. You know, I've been covering Nikki Haley's campaign. This is something that she's made

a constant refrain about both Trump and Biden, you know, calling them grumpy old men in a recent series of attack ads, calling for mental competency tests, as she's been doing for months for politicians over 75. But I think it may not be a turning point for Biden, but I do think it rises to another level here. As Tam was just saying, we're not just talking about attacks from political rivals. We're talking about a special counsel who, yes, was a Trump appointee, but also was a clearing Biden of wrongdoing in this case, or at least criminal wrongdoing, saying these things. And so I think at minimum, it's not a good look. And as we started by saying, it was a rough day for the president.

We're going to take a break. Tam and Domenico, thank you for being here. After the break, we will talk to our team in Nevada, who covered the primary and the caucus there this week. And we're back and we're joined now by Ashley Lopez and Franco Ordonez from Las Vegas, Nevada. There were two election contests this week in Nevada. Tuesday was the state's primary. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley was on that ballot and former President Donald Trump was not. And then last night was the caucus. Trump was on the ballot. Haley wasn't. So that's not confusing at all, right, Ashley? Oh, yeah. We are going to

take these contests one by one. We'll start with you, Ashley. What happened on Tuesday? Well, I guess the least surprising thing that happened Tuesday is that President Biden won the Nevada primary overwhelmingly, I should say. He got about 90% of the vote. And I should say second place in that race was the none of the above option that is available to Nevada voters on their ballot. And I mention this because it's important to the next piece of what happened. And that is that Nikki Haley lost the Nevada state run primary pretty handily to that none of the above option. Despite Trump not being on the ballot. Right. I mean, I think it's because Trump wasn't on the ballot, right? A lot of voters I talked to

who showed up to the polls to vote for Trump got there and realized, oh, he's not on the ballot. So I'm going to use this none of the above option. Some folks told me that's what they did. Okay, now to Thursday. We know there was a caucus, but Franco, enlighten us. What happened on Thursday? What does it all mean? Yeah, not surprisingly, Trump won. He took the state's 26 delegates. I mean, it's just another sign of him marching toward the nomination. I mean, he's really been kind of leaning into an inevitability message of his campaign, calling for folks to unite. You know, he's very much acting like the Republican nominee. He did so in his speech last night, has been doing this way all week when talking to local radio, and he did one in his most recent rally, you know, a couple weeks ago.

I will say he talks about Haley, but I wouldn't say he does it with much substance. I mean, he's really moving on. I mean, he mostly criticizes Haley or even belittles her continued candidacy. I mean, last night, I mean, it was a case in point of how much he made fun of her primary loss for, as you pointed out, the none of the above. So I'd like to congratulate none of the above. So I'd like to congratulate none of the above. I was one of those none of ever aboves. I was one of them. No, I saw, I watched that last night and they won by 44 points, none of the above. Yeah, Franco, I mean, say more about that. So how is Trump responding and why is

he going after Haley when he seems to be, you know, so far ahead of her in these early contests as well as all the polls? I mean, the reason he's going after Haley is he's so angry that she is still in the race. I mean, he's concerned about resources. I mean, his campaign talks about how she's just wasting the Republican Party's money, wasting Trump's money that he could be using to, you know, to target Biden. And I think he's taking it out on her like he does so often when people when they anger him. And obviously, Haley's often also attacking Trump more pointedly, you know, attacking him on his age as well. So, you know, he responds, you know, viciously when he feels attacked. I also I'm guessing Trump has not been too happy lately, because Nikki Haley's also been getting like a lot of national attention with things like SNL. And I think she did some like late

night stuff recently. And what we know about Trump is I think he likes to be sort of like the center of that kind of attention. So and it also shows just where the Republican Party is. It is Trump's party. I mean, the old school, traditional, you know, strong on foreign policy, small government, foreign Republican Party just is not there much anymore. Which brings me to the question I kind of want to put to both of you, Franco and Ashley. You've spent time in Nevada this week covering this primary slash caucus, this unusual sort of double vote. What have you been hearing from Republicans as you've spent time there in Nevada? Well, from Republicans, they're pretty enthusiastic

and in lockstep with Trump. I don't think I came across a single Haley voter. And I remember just sort of like calling upon the skies to be like, oh my gosh, I would love to, because this is like a voter I would love to talk to. And I found it really hard. I didn't find anyone. And I and I did talk to quite a few people. Democrats are a whole different situation. But like we can we can talk about that later. Yeah, I talked to a lot of Republicans at the polls as well who were very much for Trump. But I tried to get away from the polls a little bit and talk to some Republicans at other locations where, you know, there were a lot of there were concerns about Trump, and they really wished there was someone else. But the anger was more about Biden. I mean, you think the unifying factor was trying to get Biden out. I mean, I talked to Danielle Harper,

who I met on a, you know, rainy day in the suburb of Henderson, and she had just come out of the grocery store said she had paid over $200. And she was angry. I'm coming out of the grocery store, said she had paid over $200, and she was angry. I'm coming out of the grocery store pissed about what I just spent. I promise you I'm not happy about that grocery bill. $22 for a pack of chicken is out of line. This is America. This is crazy. You know, and she just went on and on that there was no way, no way absolutely in the world that she would vote for Biden.

But that said, she wasn't sure that she could vote for Trump either. And I spoke to other voters who didn't want Trump, who would rather a different Republican, but said they would end up voting for him if it became between him and Biden. It's not just Republicans who are sort of obviously unhappy with Biden. I heard this a lot from Democratic voters who showed up in a primary to vote for Biden. And I spoke to one first time voter, Phoenix Harmon. This person also made it clear that they are not very happy with Biden, but they decided to vote anyways for him. I'm still going to vote for him, regardless. Anything else would just be a waste, I feel. Yeah, which kind of brings us back, I think, to this theme we've been talking about and will continue to talk about, which is that this

is shaping up to be a race that a lot of American voters don't want, but are going to get anyway. Yeah. And they're not happy with their alternative. So everyone is just sort of like buckling down and being like, I guess this is the world we're in and these are our options. Yeah, I talked to a lot of voters who talked about how they just felt so disengaged and worried about everyone else being so disengaged because of that dissatisfaction with the current candidates. We will leave it there. Thanks so much, Franco and Ashley.

Ashley's going to stick with us for just a minute. Thank you, Franco. Thank you. Up next, Can't Let It Go. And we're back. It's time for Can't Let It Go, the part of the show where we talk about the things we just can't stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. And I'm going to start, you know, those of us who are on Twitter or X or whatever you want to call it, are very familiar with how mean and brutal and not fun it can be. But for some reason, we're all still there because I guess you have to be to talk about politics.

And this is also true for candidates like Nikki Haley, who's running for the Republican nomination, of course. And so this week, she did what a lot of celebrities who've been targeted with ugly rhetoric on Twitter have done. And she read some of those tweets out loud. Everybody hates you. Really? I think my husband loves me. I'm genuinely terrified of Nikki Haley. Any man who knows how vindictive, evil, short-sighted, and psychotic women can be.

This guy can't be married. Is that a laugh track? Sounds like it. You know, and I thought this was it was funny. And I actually thought her delivery was sharper for this segment on Twitter than it had been on SNL, which she appeared on last weekend. And I guess the lesson is when someone's attacking you, you might as well own it and you might as well laugh about it because especially on social media, there is no fighting it. Yeah, mean tweets. It's so sad. Yeah, I think for particularly women in politics, right, it could be kind of kind of brutal. It can be very brutal. And some of them focused on her appearance in a bizarre way. But again, classic, you can't fight it. Laugh about it. Yeah. Hey, Tam, what can't you let go? Well, what I can't let go of is a story that was first reported by Politico.

You might remember, I don't know, like a year and a half ago, there was this huge controversy on the right because Bud Light got a social media influencer who is a trans person, an influencer to like promote Bud Light. And all of a sudden Bud Light gate. Yes. They canceled Bud Light or they tried to cancel Bud Light. And they actually succeeded like Bud Light sales went down. Well, then out of the blue, former President Trump goes on Truth Social and puts out a message just this week saying the Bud Light ad was a mistake of epic proportions. And for that, a very big price was paid. But Anheuser-Busch is not a woke company. Anheuser-Busch is a great American brand that perhaps deserves a second chance. What do you think? Perhaps instead we should be going after those companies that are looking to destroy America, exclamation point. Now, weird,

right? Like we're uncanceling Bud Light. What happened? I thought that. And also, why now? Yeah, I thought Travis Kelsey didn't add for them, which made Travis Kelsey bad in that whole universe. But it turns out there is a reason Politico reported that a top Republican lobbyist for Anheuser-Busch was set to hold a fundraiser for him next month. There we go. Some tickets going for $10,000 each. This lobbyist is a close confidant of former Speaker Kevin McCarthy. So I guess the answer is, when in doubt, there might be a monetary motive. Yeah. Isn't there always?

That at least explains why Trump can't let that go a year and a half later. Ashley, how about you? Why can't you let go? So I just want to say I don't live in D.C., so at first this seems like something that has nothing to do with me. But someone on Twitter, back to Twitter, had messaged your Metro folks about a car blocking the same spot on Pen Ave. And it's a rush hour bus lane. It was like morning after morning, this car is there during rush hour, parked in a bus lane. And this person like seemingly cannot get someone to like take care of this. Please move your car. Yeah, yeah, for real, man. Okay, that's all for

this week. Our executive producer is Mithoni Matori. Our editor is Erica Morrison. Our producers are Casey Morrell and Kelly Wessinger and Jung Yoon Han. Special thanks to Krista Dov-Kalimer. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover politics. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting. And I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And thanks, as always, for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.